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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
 Posted - 16 Jan 2009 : 22:11:22
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quote:
???? What happens to the child after the age of 4 that makes a man able to take care of that child?????????????? The child hasnt grown an extra head?? It is the same child that was born 4 years ago!!!!!! Women know just as much or little as men about raising children, so why you think a mother is more fit is crazy?!?!?!?!?!
Fee, I wish you get some assistance on parenting and development of the child. I recommend you to go to some social worker and tell them that you do not have intellectual ability to take care of a child as you do not understand child development concepts. Yes the child has now different head. The head of newborn is very different from infant, toddlers and finally 4 years old. It is NOT the same child was born 4 years ago.
The first 4 years are more significant for child than any other time period. 4 years ago, child was more vulnerable. the child can't talk, express herself, needs breastfeeding. 4 years later, the child start talking, mobile, express thoughts, have language, can tell you about hunger.
Fee, once your son was born, you produce milk in a process called lactation to feed him; often the your breast milk is your son sole nourishment for the first year or more of his life. I have tried but I was not able to produce milk as I did not have nipples with milk to feed my daughter. So I have use formula to feed her.
If you are not marsian, you would know that the most of the law resources, islamic sheria give the child to the mother until the child 6 years old, the secular law, western law does have bias as well, the most family law (the ones I know Canadian and Australian) do favour the mother to take care of the child in case there is custody issue if the mother does not have some very significant lack of capacity. If the child is under 4 years old, there are different dynamics for the custody law, and usually the mother gets the primary care of the child. This is a fact. Tell us something we don't know so the law should change to treat men and women equally when it comes to determination of custadian for the child under 4.
I am not saying the men are NOT capable to take care of child, i know it because, as a single father I have been taking care of my daughter without mother and that is great feeling. Is it an ideal situation for my daughter though? No.
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Just in Jamaica ??? I dont think so.........There are many women and men who find it acceptable to have many relationships at the one time all over the world.
Have you ever been to Jamaica? Of course there are similar cases in all over the world, but in Jamaica and caribbean island, the family structure is different. Many families have this concept called 'visiting father' as the fathers and mothers mostly live seperately with seperate partner. Not that I am saying it is wrong or anything, but it is different family situation. No where in the world as much as Jamaican women have more freedom and asertiveness to choose another partner contrary to the other parts of world, particularly more traditional middleeast and southern asia
Here is some reading for you: http://family.jrank.org/pages/203/Caribbean-Families-Family-Structure.html
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??? Eh they do!!!! We live in the 21st century in the UK and many men do choose to stay at home and be the house husband and take full resopsibilty of the children while the woman works.
Of course, they do? Duh. What about africa, what about caribbean, what about south america, what about india, china, indonesia, what about middleeast. Fee, your thinking process is not really academic. The world is not consist of your England, there are other parts of the world as well. That is why I said why not many parts of the world men can't take more responsibility at home, like the ones in europe. I was thinking globally unlike your local observation.
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I think its a bit harsh to insinuate that two out of three marriages that end with divorce is down to the fault of the women
What is this? Noooooooo one tells that is 'fault' of the women, but increasing economic and social independent is 'reason' for increasing divorce rate. you confuse 'fault' and 'reason' are two different meaning. funny, me non-native-english speaker lecturing an English on Enlish. :)
In summary, the point is the marriage has not updated itself as institution while the relationships are now more complex.
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Correct me if I´m wrong Turk, but from what I understand from your last posting, you seem to put the marriage failing issue on women. Just becauce women have economic independence, they dont wanna stay married, is that what you are saying??????
What I am saying that increasing economic and social status in the society (which is a good thing) contributing factor to divorce rates, and further this is a reason why marriage institution is failing as the marriage institution is defined on the basis that women being secondary as they do not have economic and social independence in past. I am not saying that let us take this from women, instead, marriage institution must change in order to keep up with change in society. Can you imagine, in christianity, divorce is not allowed?
Of course, previously, those women who had to stay in the marriage due to economic dependence, now does not have to stay in a relationship which is not satisfying. And there is nothing wrong with that. That is the progress in terms of women position, but failure in terms of marriage institution.
We must redefined marriage.
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 16 Jan 2009 22:48:46 |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2009 : 09:06:33
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Turk I agree with you about economics being a BIG part of a traditional marriage. If you have read Jane Austen or watched any of the adaptations she was a great commentator on social rules and marriage. Up until the 1960s things hadnt changed much from her day and for many women in many parts of the world it is still the same.
If the man is the sole wage earner then he holds the power in the relationship. How can a women leave if she has no means to support herself?
In the UK several things have happened to change this:
1. Women have a better education and can work to earn their own income.
2. Women can inherit equally with their male siblings.
3. Women have protection in the work place if they become pregnant.
4. The benefits system will support single parents, so a women with children has the choice to leave a partner.
5. Contraception is widely available so women can manage their family size, which in turn allows them to have more years in the work place.
I do still think marriage is a good foundation for raising children. As a teacher I do think children benefit from the security of a two parent family with stability.
However, this need to be a HAPPY partnership. If the marriage is failing it may be in the best interests of everyone to end it. I don't think this should be taken lightly. The emotional and financial trauma of divorce shouldnt be underestimated.
Divorce and subsequent relationships DO impact on children. If we put our children first in all we do perhaps some people would be less hasty to swap partners when their children are young.
Divorce is liberating for women though.....
Think of all those unhappy women stuck in bad marriages. Now they don't have to put up with that.
Oh dear Turk, I cant decide if divorce is good or bad!  I suppose good for women  but not necessarily so good for children .
On the subject of raising children I think the ideal model is that all children up to the age of three should be MAINLY raised by ONE KEY PERSON.
This has been proved to be good for their social and emotional well being and also good for their development of language and learning skills.
This person is most effective if they are a blood relative. SO mum, dad, grandma.....
It is not good for young children to spend all day or all week in nursery care before the age of three. If a relative is not available it is best for the child to be childminded. This way they are in a SMALL group of children and being looked after by one key adult.
Nursery is good for social skills, but before the age of 3 I would suggest just short spells. eg a couple of afternoons a week. From the age of 3 the child can be gradually separated more from their key adult until one day they manage to go to school full time! 
I have just reread what I have written and think I am turning into my mum!!! I sound so old fashioned! 
Next I will be saying 'in my day...!'
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2009 : 11:28:28
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bev
Marriage institution needs to be flexible in order to have less negative impact on parents and children. Depends on the time and the realities of the society, there may be different definitions. For example, man being allowed to have 4 wifes. Imagine, 1400 years ago, there was a war, more than half of the town men died, for each men there are more women, many widows, whom are they going to take care of these women. It is great solution for men to take another women under the house. This ain't gonna work now. My boss is women, she is smarter than me, she makes more money. Women is not vulnerble anymore.
I think now marriage institution should accept the possibility of divorce and children before even marriage. The law should require parents to have parenting plan before even the child is born. Such as maintenance of the child, in case divorce happens, what happens to the child, how is the education, health decision made about the child. That should be requirements for any marriage.
It is ok to have a kind of marriage to be like business agreement. or it is ok to have islamic marriage, or christian marriage or ateist marriage. Why try to have one type of marriage. If both sides agree on the terms of different marriage, they may go with that one.
The possibility of divorce should be dealt the day you get married. That should be an option in my opinion.
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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fee_sweetie
United Kingdom
127 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2009 : 11:57:38
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Ah turk I cant even be bothered replying but just wanted to clear some points.
YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT MY LIFE SO DONT BE SO PATHETIC AND GO AS LOW AS TO CRITISE MY PARENTING SKILLS WHEN YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BELIEVE ME YOU WILL BE MESSING WITH THE WRONG PERSON IF YOU CHOOSE TO CONTINUE GOING DOWN THAT LINE!
ANYWAY FOR YOUR INFORMATION -I dont live in England, I am not English! so sorry to burst your bubble, you are not teaching english to an english..........
I didnt produce milk and didnt Breastfeed Marley.
No i dont write academically, I write from the heart and from LIFE experiences! Just because you can read a dictionary doesnt mean you are clever!
Im sorry you are a single parent....so am I but I see it has troubled you deeply. Maybe you should got to the Doctors as soon as possible........Dont know if you have noticed, but theres a huge CHIP ON YOUR SHOULDER!!!
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"Religion is an insult to human dignity. Without it you'd have good people doing good things + evil people doing evil things but for good people to do evil things it takes religion"- Richard Dawkins |
Edited by - fee_sweetie on 17 Jan 2009 12:12:18 |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2009 : 12:41:24
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feeeee.i am very disappointed with your reply, i thought you had more faa-ya.
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2009 : 13:35:30
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To me a marriage will always be the attempt at a life times commitment to one person. Loyal. Faithful. Loving. Kind. Equal. A true partnership and soul mate.
I know I expect alot!
I was married once. On my wedding day I thought it would be forever.
When I divorced I didnt take it lightly. I took it very seriously. It took me a long time to decided. I was married a long time. My children were young adults.
I don't need a man for economics or security. I am managing fine on my own. More than fine. I'm very happy on my own.I like the peace and quiet
But a nice man would be the icing on the cake!!!!
But I won't settle for less than a true soul mate. That is not easy to find.
So I might live alone for the rest of my life. But that's OK! |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2009 : 13:39:42
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I have posted on this topic before, but I was very shocked in Kolior when I discovered a women whose husband had died had been past on to his brother!!! 
The women was so economically dependant she really had no choice in the matter.
To be treated like her husbands possession, to be inherited..... I just couldn't imagine that! Does this happen alot in rural communities?
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toubab1020
12314 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2009 : 17:34:32
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quote:
Originally posted by gambiabev
I have posted on this topic before, but I was very shocked in Kolior when I discovered a women whose husband had died had been past on to his brother!!!
The women was so economically dependant she really had no choice in the matter.
To be treated like her husbands possession, to be inherited..... I just couldn't imagine that! Does this happen alot in rural communities?
This practice may appear strange to those not within the culture of Gambia but your interpretation is somewhat mistaken, I think what happens is that the remaining brother takes on responsibility for his late brothers wife,bearing in mind that quite often food money clothes are in short supply,this the brother feels is his duty doubtless he hopes that if he should die then his brother would do the same for his wife,it is not about "inheriting" a wife as a posession , this is my understanding.
To the wise ones on Bantaba if this is not the case please correct me.
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"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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toubab1020
12314 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2009 : 17:42:40
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quote:
Originally posted by fee_sweetie
ANYWAY FOR YOUR INFORMATION -I dont live in England, I am not English! so sorry to burst your bubble, you are not teaching english to an english..........
I was going to put a picture of a person wearing a Kilt,but I might get the Clan wrong ,so I didnt. |
"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2009 : 18:15:39
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Toubab 1020 so it isnt a 'relationship' as such? No sex? She is just taken in....
That is kind if that is the case. |
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MeMe
United Kingdom
541 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2009 : 18:43:16
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quote:
Originally posted by toubab1020
I was going to put a picture of a person wearing a Kilt,but I might get the Clan wrong ,so I didnt.
You'd indeed be wrong, T1020 as my daughter is actually a Dutch passport holder ...... |
It is better to die standing than to live on your knees - Ernesto Guevara de la Serna |
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MeMe
United Kingdom
541 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2009 : 18:50:43
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quote:
Originally posted by gambiabev
Turk I agree with you about economics being a BIG part of a traditional marriage. If you have read Jane Austen or watched any of the adaptations she was a great commentator on social rules and marriage. Up until the 1960s things hadnt changed much from her day and for many women in many parts of the world it is still the same............
Hello, Bev ... we've moved on a bit since Jane Austen's day!! And if we are going to be giving our honest opinion here then I think one of the most damaging situations for children is to be brought up by a parent who is addicted to either alchohol and/or drugs .... surely that is the most negative situation for any child to grow up in? Glass houses and bricks!!! |
It is better to die standing than to live on your knees - Ernesto Guevara de la Serna |
Edited by - MeMe on 17 Jan 2009 18:52:58 |
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toubab1020
12314 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2009 : 18:58:05
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quote:
Originally posted by gambiabev
Toubab 1020 so it isnt a 'relationship' as such? No sex? She is just taken in....
That is kind if that is the case.
Don't know about the relationship or sex bit,others here will I hope tell us tell us,but sometimes they dont join in lets wait and see.
Gambiabev.
There you are as I thought no one would confirm or deny what I have written, I wonder why? perhaps I will get a response,but I doubt it.
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"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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Edited by - toubab1020 on 19 Jan 2009 13:49:28 |
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toubab1020
12314 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2009 : 19:00:19
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quote:
Originally posted by MeMe
You'd indeed be wrong, T1020 as my daughter is actually a Dutch passport holder ......
But you ? |
"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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fee_sweetie
United Kingdom
127 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2009 : 21:07:55
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Eh hello....were you not replying to my comments???? So yes my mum is Scottish but I am not, so the Kilted Scottish man wouldnt mean anything! Maybe this will help you understand!!!!!!!!!
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"Religion is an insult to human dignity. Without it you'd have good people doing good things + evil people doing evil things but for good people to do evil things it takes religion"- Richard Dawkins |
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