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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
 Posted - 16 Mar 2007 : 18:44:38
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quote:
Originally posted by remyspam
Does it matter?
(sorry to interrupt)
iT DOES MATTER IF THE ISSUE IS BEING MADE A RELIGIOUS MATTER. THERE IS NO JUDAIC RELIGION WHICH SAYS SO( JUDAISM, CHRISTIANITY OR ISLAM).
Why did Sarah, Abrahams wife recommend him to marry a second wife. If it was illegal, then Prohet Abraham would not have done it. |
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serenata
Germany
1400 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2007 : 18:51:20
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quote:
Originally posted by kondorong"THOU SHALL NOT LIVE BY BREAD ALONE"
...Thou also need butter and cheese...
Ahem. Well, I don't remember anything about monogamy in the Bible. Maybe it was taken into the Christian canon of sacraments following the monogamous Roman concept of marriage. BTW, the pre-christian Germans and their derivates (like the Anglo-Saxons) also were monogamous. |
Edited by - serenata on 16 Mar 2007 18:52:53 |
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anna
Netherlands
730 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2007 : 18:57:45
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Adultery: voluntary sexual intercourse of a MARRIED person with somebody who is not the person to whom he or she is married. (Oxford Dictionary of Current English). Now, European law says you cannot be married to more than one person at the same time. You can only have one lawful wife or husband. So, here is impossible to have yourself a second wife (or husband), if you were to sleep with this person you would make yourself an adulterer (or adulteress). This is the quite simple, technical side of it.
Kondorong, if fact i think you are right when you say this is not a religious doctrine, but a 'recent' (few hundred years) cultural idea - probably someone thought of it to bring order in the chaos. You are wrong when you say Christian men should not marry in the first place, if they want to follow in Jesus' footsteps. This only goes for the Christian men who want to dedicate their lives to God and become a priest (likewise for women who want to become a nun, so called brides of Jesus - in fact they wear a wedding ring).
I know about Abraham living with Sarah (who gave birth at a very high age and who lived until she was something like 150) and later with Hagar. These are stories from the Old Testament - as a young woman in a nun's school i was taught that these stories are to be regarded as 'symbolic', not factual.
I hated Dan Brown's Da Vinci Code, but i read more worthwhile books in which Mary Magdalene was presented as 'The Holy Grail', carrying Jesus' child.
Finally, i would like to say that, like Serenata, i favour serial monogamy and i am of the opinion that anyone should live the way they liked as long as it is not a way in which people are hurt of unfairly treated. I am not married, but i live with a man and as long as i live with him i will be faithful to him and i expect him to do the same. If one of us needs to live with someone else, we would have to set each other free. |
When an old African dies, it is as if a whole library has burnt down.
Amadou Hampate Ba (Mali) |
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remyspam
15 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2007 : 19:16:27
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quote:
Originally posted by kondorong
iT DOES MATTER IF THE ISSUE IS BEING MADE A RELIGIOUS MATTER. THERE IS NO JUDAIC RELIGION WHICH SAYS SO( JUDAISM, CHRISTIANITY OR ISLAM).
Your caps-lock is on ;)
But who says it's a religious matter?
Even though it's mentioned in the quran, and maybe even in the bible doesn't make it a religious matter.
The fact alone that we're not sure what it exactly says in the bible (Jesus had one, none or two wives?) means to me it's *not* a religious matter, but a cultural one.
Besides, polygamy has been practised in China and Africa thousands of years before Mohammed was born.
Especially in patriarchal cultures, where there's a financial, social or otherwise benefit to a multi-partnered family.
(Often the sharing of resources)
In these cultures there's often a tradition of pre-arranged marriages and women are subdued.
In that context monogamy is relatively new, just like human rights and democracy. |
Edited by - remyspam on 16 Mar 2007 19:17:54 |
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2007 : 19:40:39
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quote:
Originally posted by anna
Adultery: voluntary sexual intercourse of a MARRIED person with somebody who is not the person to whom he or she is married. (Oxford Dictionary of Current English). Now, European law says you cannot be married to more than one person at the same time. You can only have one lawful wife or husband. So, here is impossible to have yourself a second wife (or husband), if you were to sleep with this person you would make yourself an adulterer (or adulteress). This is the quite simple, technical side of it.
Kondorong, if fact i think you are right when you say this is not a religious doctrine, but a 'recent' (few hundred years) cultural idea - probably someone thought of it to bring order in the chaos. You are wrong when you say Christian men should not marry in the first place, if they want to follow in Jesus' footsteps. This only goes for the Christian men who want to dedicate their lives to God and become a priest (likewise for women who want to become a nun, so called brides of Jesus - in fact they wear a wedding ring).
I never said that Christian men should not marry. What i said was that if we go by the examples of Jesus, then men should not marry. That s fdifferent from men not marry at all. I was making a reference to the "Leader" who shows the way. The way of Jesus is celibacy.
Is it not ironical that your convent Nun told you that the story of Hajar and Sarah are to be taken as symbolic when the Old Testament said it happened.
Howver the Bible is not telling me that its symbolic. President Clinton talked about it at Camp David when he was negaotiating peace as described them as the two sons of Abraham (Ismael and Isaac). May be Clinton is also being symbolic here. |
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anna
Netherlands
730 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2007 : 23:03:54
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..or he used the symbolism to stress the point he (Clinton) wanted to make himself?
This is what you stated:
If we go by the example of Jesus, then Christian men are not supposed to be married. Jesus never married in the first place.
? Kondorong, i am not a theologist - far from it. This discussion is going astray. Before we know it, it might turn to Eve's arising from Adam's rib - a theory i am not willing to accept as well.
The starting point of this topic was the unhappiness/downright anger of a woman with her husband wanting to marry a second wife. I maintain: if you live in a Western country, there is no such thing as a 'second wife' for the simple reason that is against the law. That's it, it is a legal matter and it has nothing to do with religion. |
When an old African dies, it is as if a whole library has burnt down.
Amadou Hampate Ba (Mali) |
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2007 : 23:08:35
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quote:
Originally posted by anna
..or he used the symbolism to stress the point he (Clinton) wanted to make himself?
This is what you stated:
If we go by the example of Jesus, then Christian men are not supposed to be married. Jesus never married in the first place.
? Kondorong, i am not a theologist - far from it. This discussion is going astray. Before we know it, it might turn to Eve's arising from Adam's rib - a theory i am not willing to accept as well.
The starting point of this topic was the unhappiness/downright anger of a woman with her husband wanting to marry a second wife. I maintain: if you live in a Western country, there is no such thing as a 'second wife' for the simple reason that is against the law. That's it, it is a legal matter and it has nothing to do with religion.
Well thats the answer i was looking for. For those who think its based in Christianity to marry only one wife, the Bible unfortunately said Abraham had two wives and Jesus never married. Both are contrary to the issue of one man one wife as we see today. Its a legal thing not religious.
Personally i have no opinion on who marries who or in what numbers. Thats up to individuals and societies they live in and we should respect the laws in the countries we live in.
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anna
Netherlands
730 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2007 : 23:21:50
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Good, so we do agree! Mind you, i never said it was a religious thing. It was Alhassan telling us it was between him and God. I told him it was between him and his conscience, as he would be committing a felony.
I am pleased to hear you say that we should (all) respect the laws of the countries we live in. |
When an old African dies, it is as if a whole library has burnt down.
Amadou Hampate Ba (Mali) |
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Momodou
Denmark
11738 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2007 : 00:54:40
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Here are some statastics from The Gambia Atlas of 2003 Population and Housing Census:
Monogamous marriages in 2003
61% of the married population is in a monogamous relationship. Monogamy is most prevalent in the urban areas with more than 70% of all marriages. Areas with the lowest percentage of monogamous marriages include Mansakonko, Kerewan and Basse Local Government Areas.
Women and types of marriages in 2003
In 2003, 55% of married women are in monagamous relationships with remaining 45% in polygamous relationships. Of those in polygamous marriages, 65% are in polygamy with two wives, 24% in polygamy with 3 wives with remaining 11% in polygamy with 4 or more wives. Districts with high percentage of polygamous marriages include Lower and Central Badibu, Kiang East and West, Fuladu East and Wuli -districts with large population of Mandinka/Jahanke and Sarahule. |
A clear conscience fears no accusation - proverb from Sierra Leone |
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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2007 : 07:29:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Momodou
Here are some statastics from The Gambia Atlas of 2003 Population and Housing Census:
Monogamous marriages in 2003
61% of the married population is in a monogamous relationship. Monogamy is most prevalent in the urban areas with more than 70% of all marriages. Areas with the lowest percentage of monogamous marriages include Mansakonko, Kerewan and Basse Local Government Areas.
Women and types of marriages in 2003
In 2003, 55% of married women are in monagamous relationships with remaining 45% in polygamous relationships. Of those in polygamous marriages, 65% are in polygamy with two wives, 24% in polygamy with 3 wives with remaining 11% in polygamy with 4 or more wives. Districts with high percentage of polygamous marriages include Lower and Central Badibu, Kiang East and West, Fuladu East and Wuli -districts with large population of Mandinka/Jahanke and Sarahule.
thanks momodou for the stats. but their is only one flore in the stats ,that is alkali kondo was not counted and may be alhasan latest adventure.
kondo ,on the issue of the bible ,the only mension of one wife one man was a quote which was not conclusive . the bible states that '' marry, and you and your wife shall become one '' . this statement is usually quoted by evangelist bible thunbers when attacking islam. but a problem break out in swaziland a tiny country near bostuwa were the king wanted to have a third wife but the country's priest and bishops were outrage at that behavior of the king. the king told them at a meeting that the bible never say he cannot marry more wifes. to that statement the priest and bishops help by the africana clergy from south africa started quoting the above quotation above that you and your wife shall become one. he said but he will be one with all his wifes. the saga could not be solve from the biblical statement. then the king summond a muslim clergy call ahamed dedat to bring on the islamic side of the story.the said he is not a muslim but that satement of limiting the number to four is quiet fine by him ,but alas the king now have some 12 wifes .
it goes as natural human behaviour. whatever we want we find a way round. |
Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
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tamsier
United Kingdom
557 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2007 : 11:12:14
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| Now that's what I call girl power. |
Tamsier
Serere heritage. Serere religion. Serere to the end.
Roog a fa ha. |
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LEMON TIME
Afghanistan
1295 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2007 : 14:37:58
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| We Gambians have to change our attitude towards women in other to have equal rights.In this very generation you cant possibly threat two wives equally as the Quran says.ITs really not fair on women as they are our Grand mothers,mothers,sisters or daughter.None of us men would like any other man to treat our daughters unfairly. |
There is no god but Allah |
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LEMON TIME
Afghanistan
1295 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2007 : 14:44:43
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| Remember if you don't treat your wives EQUALLY or FAIRLY YOU are indeed going to HELL.So brothers treat your wife as you would want them to treat you. |
There is no god but Allah |
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mbay
Germany
1007 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2007 : 23:38:01
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Stick with the one you have if you know you cant handle more than her.
BUT why not letting those who can .
And saying its not possible of keeping 1-5 wives is a nonsense to me because there is nothing that's impossible.
WHAT I CANT DOESNT MEANS AUTOMATICALY THAT THE OTHERS CANT DO TOO.
And this debate isn't the one we had at beginning of the winter, if its so where is a topics in this that can changes the situations
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inez
279 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2007 : 23:50:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Alhassan
I suggest you talk to those who are concerned in the cases you mention. The Swedish law is here for all of us. In the end it is up to the women to accept or not. Further more, we are not looking for children. We have enough of them and grandchildren too. This case can only be deciaded by God and we tre. No body else. Even the women activists have been in contact with my first one and she told them off. Inez, I suggest you leave us alone too. I am not here to discuss my wives with you unknown people. I just mentioned it for some brothers and the case in our country.
All women activists must take their mouths off my family. We are the only ones concerned. I am not looking for an opinoin on this bantaba.
I hope you people who are redy to attack can simply lay down your arms on this one.
ok ok, I leave you alone, my purpose was never to attack you, just to say my opinion which I will be able to do even without you asking for it. I told you about how this happen in Sweden and itīs mostly done between somalians. How you do it is your business but there is no need to start shouting here ok? So long your women agree to this its ok but how do think it is for women coming here and not even knowing how to read or write...how will they be able to agree or not when not knowing what it will mean to them and there children? |
Edited by - inez on 18 Mar 2007 00:02:12 |
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