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serenata
Germany
1400 Posts |
 Posted - 15 Nov 2006 : 20:23:40
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Oh yes, interpreters can be very powerful...
Anna, this is a very sad story, but I am happy that life is much better now for your mother-in-law and for your husband. It is worth the trouble, and you three seem to be a strong team.
I apologized because I know that some Gambian men don't like this topic and want to keep it as something like a taboo. But it was Eve, a Gambian lady, who brought it up; this should be respected. I don't want to interfere with Gambian traditions. But saying 'no problem!' about polygamy is not very credible, the more if it comes from the side which has the biggest profit of it. Of course - like in monogamy - there are problems. Why should we deny this, and why should it be taboo?
As I said some months ago: Polygamy may be an appropriate form of marriage in rural areas, for warrior societies etc. For modern urban life it is probably not the best. E.g. the lack of space can be a problem - if every woman has her own house, there are less frictions. Traditions are not there to be kept up by any means - if they bring more problems than benefits, people will alter them, that's a fact. |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2006 : 21:23:52
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I feel the tradition is there so women who are widowed will be provided for and women who would otherwise stay single are provided for. In a country where women find it hard to make an independent living and very often are passed over in inheritance they dont have any choice or any power. They may not be physically forced to marry, but they are forced by the harsh circumstances. As a western women, to marry for security and need rather than feeling love, seems strange and very sad.
If any of you have read Jane Austens novels you will realise it is not that long ago that women in uk werent independent either. They often had arranged marriages and were very dependent on men. They didnt have polygamy to put up with, but their husband may of had affairs.....
If a women FREELY decides to marry a man who is already married what is up to her and good luck to her. What I really object to is when she seems to have no say in the matter and other people make the decision for her. She is just stuck with their decisions. |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2006 : 21:26:33
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If a Muslim Gambia man marries a tourist from UK is he bound by UK law to have one wife? Or is he free to have three more wives? Does it make a difference if the marriage happens in uk or Gambia?
Once a Gambian marries someone from the uk are they automatically allowed into the uk? Or do they still nedd visas etc? |
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Sister Omega
United Kingdom
2085 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2006 : 22:34:45
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Gambiabev Polgamy is Bigamy under UK law, and is considered illegal. All Gambians have to apply for a visa to enter the UK whether they are married or not unless they have already been given leave to remain. Anna your Mother- in -Law story shows how resilient women are under trying circumstances, she has been able to up hold her dignity. Her children must be proud to have a strong and loving mother to cherish. I agree with you Serenata Polygamy works better if the man has the means to maintain each wife with her own house, allowance etc. My personal preference is monogamy,I prefer to be in a relationship with one man and no extra women. This is my preference and I give thanks that I've got a partner who feels the same way I do.
Peace
Sister Omega
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Peace
Sister Omega |
Edited by - Sister Omega on 15 Nov 2006 22:37:53 |
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Momodou
Denmark
11717 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2006 : 23:28:51
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The Qur'an (4:21) refers to marriage as a mithaq, i.e. a solemn covenant or agreement between husband and wife, and enjoins that it be put down in writing.
"Marry women of your choice, two or three or four; but if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with them, then only one or one that your right hands possess. That will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice." (Qur'an 4:3)
This verse from the Qur'an allows a man to marry more than one woman but only if he can deal justly with them. Another verse says that a person is unable to deal justly between wives, thus giving permission but
discouraging.
"You will never be able to deal justly between wives however much you desire (to do so). But (if you have more than one wife) do not turn altogether away (from one), leaving her in suspense..." (Qur'an 4:129)
Culled from: http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/humanrelations/womeninislam/ |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2006 : 07:18:03
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Thanks Momodou for that well compiled reference on the Islamic position on the subject matter of this topic!
Its really very useful, comprehensive and from AUTHORITATIVE sources.
"Hate the sin, love the sinner" Mahatma Ghandi |
Edited by - kobo on 16 Nov 2006 07:53:53 |
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Eve
Gambia
344 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2006 : 13:03:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Momodou
The Qur'an (4:21) refers to marriage as a mithaq, i.e. a solemn covenant or agreement between husband and wife, and enjoins that it be put down in writing.
"Marry women of your choice, two or three or four; but if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with them, then only one or one that your right hands possess. That will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice." (Qur'an 4:3)
This verse from the Qur'an allows a man to marry more than one woman but only if he can deal justly with them. Another verse says that a person is unable to deal justly between wives, thus giving permission but
discouraging.
"You will never be able to deal justly between wives however much you desire (to do so). But (if you have more than one wife) do not turn altogether away (from one), leaving her in suspense..." (Qur'an 4:129)
Culled from: http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/humanrelations/womeninislam/
Thanks momodou the that, but look properly, nor of those men doing what is Islam said the men should do to those wives, they only accepted taking another wife, for their good, but the equality is not there, women are suffering like hell and they seeing that, but easy for them to ignore it. And killing us saying that is the Islam law.
The only thing the men satisfied those two or three wives is to lied to them, and sychologically the women has no choices, sometimes they knew that their men is not right, but they ignore, and try to profit the life. |
gambian |
Edited by - Eve on 16 Nov 2006 13:42:42 |
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Eve
Gambia
344 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2006 : 13:40:43
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quote:
Originally posted by gambiabev
I feel the tradition is there so women who are widowed will be provided for and women who would otherwise stay single are provided for. In a country where women find it hard to make an independent living and very often are passed over in inheritance they dont have any choice or any power. They may not be physically forced to marry, but they are forced by the harsh circumstances. As a western women, to marry for security and need rather than feeling love, seems strange and very sad.
If any of you have read Jane Austens novels you will realise it is not that long ago that women in uk werent independent either. They often had arranged marriages and were very dependent on men. They didnt have polygamy to put up with, but their husband may of had affairs.....
If a women FREELY decides to marry a man who is already married what is up to her and good luck to her. What I really object to is when she seems to have no say in the matter and other people make the decision for her. She is just stuck with their decisions.
Beside the women never decides to marry a man who will like to have another wife, sometimes it's happened like this, i stay in my home and lot of old men coming to me and tell me that yes u know is the islam law asked for muslims can marry up to three wives, and today we came to tell u that yr man got someone to help you in the home, Ohoooo God who asked him that i needed help. while i was suffering with him since day 1, my beast present is second wife, who will they me to the marabous always and me 2 will never accepted looking for marabou, both of us going to the marabou for him now, at the end he died, and this life continued with our children, i don't want her children goes up than might, then we keep on with this marabou business, spending money like whatever, and that money can be spent in the home for something else, but no, the marabou need it more. |
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mbay
Germany
1007 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2006 : 13:44:16
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If it comes to the roots of marrying more than a one has nothing to do of just having fun but tenderness help and care. in the time of jihad a lots of men lost their lives, they left widows + orphans behind them so there’s come a order/idea from the prophet Muhammad PBH that an one who can take more than a one should do so but if only if he can, so that those women and orphans should have one who can take care of them. And so to prevent them from the MUSSRIKINAS who ware after the women’s.
And this is the same problems the world is facing now! According to the UNICEF that the girls are boning today more than boys. Let’s take here the West on the side and look at even in the Gambia now what a problems we are overseeing. the country is almost over loaded of unmarried women and most of them wanted to get married which is right for every Muslim to do so when they reach on that stage but how because I married only one my friends too as well as my neighbours so what about remaining other women’s waiting to do so? I get my own experience about this problems a couple of years back .there was girl working at bank in Westfield helping my aunt about taking care of all my papers and money matters .so the both families become very close to each other that then my own very mother in law comes ideas that I most married that girl. trough that discussing at fajara hotel that i doesn’t wish to broke her promises to them but i simple cant do it, the comes her friend in and was saying that our tribes are marrying only one another so my aunt should take my uncle as an exception. Because he has five and only one belongs to our tribes the others not including my aunt. so then the conversation went on but I took one in and this was that, no wonder that a lot of women’s or girls are going out of doing something wrong because we young generations don’t want to get more than one and that turn some of weaks one of doing this and we will be punished by ALLAH one day! Which I disagree. But the problems are no difference with the ideas of the one i mention earlier.
So something most get done cose things are getting out of control!
Peace.
Here is for the interest of Hadith
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/
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Edited by - mbay on 16 Nov 2006 13:44:42 |
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serenata
Germany
1400 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2006 : 13:46:24
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Momodou, thank you for clearance. I recur to the Mahabharata, where Draupadi (in this point it doesn't matter if a man or a woman is concerned) gives a good example for the impossibility to deal justly between all partners in a polygamous marriage. The Holy Coran 4:129 certifies this. We must not forget that at The Prophet's time polygamy was already practised, and to abolish too many traditions would have meant playing hazard with the acceptance of Islam. So, though The Prophet himself was a real womanizer (I mean this absolutely positive because he was kind and respectful to women, who loved him a lot for that) polygamy was regulated, but not originally installed in Islam.
Sister Omega, some time ago there was a documentary in German TV about a German lady living in Senegal with her Senegalese husband and two co-wives. She gets along very well with the first wife, who has her own house in another part of the town; the two even decided to live together if the husband should die. But with the second, who - due to a lack of money - is living in her house, there is always trouble. This lady is a person of high self-respect, but also a very kind one; e.g. she loves to care for her husband's 16 (!!) children from his other wives.
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Momodou
Denmark
11717 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2006 : 14:09:06
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quote:
Originally posted by serenata
Sister Omega, some time ago there was a documentary in German TV about a German lady living in Senegal with her Senegalese husband and two co-wives. She gets along very well with the first wife, who has her own house in another part of the town; the two even decided to live together if the husband should die. But with the second, who - due to a lack of money - is living in her house, there is always trouble. This lady is a person of high self-respect, but also a very kind one; e.g. she loves to care for her husband's 16 (!!) children from his other wives.
There was a documentary about the former Danish parliamentarian who got married to Mr. Habiab Cham a one time vice president to President Abdou Diop of Senegal. Anyway she was either number two or three . |
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serenata
Germany
1400 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2006 : 14:24:54
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Mbay, usually all around the world there are more boys than girls born. These days it may be even more, because those sexist i****s in India and China abort many female babies. Within the next ten years China will lack 40 bis 60 mio. women; this is why the Chinese government already sharpened the sentence for the abortion of females.
If there are not enough young men in Gambia it is because many of them leave the country. |
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serenata
Germany
1400 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2006 : 14:27:34
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| Momodou, what is going on with European women? Maybe they don't like it any more that the husband is tied to their apron strings, and want to share the molestation with other women |
Edited by - serenata on 16 Nov 2006 14:33:59 |
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Momodou
Denmark
11717 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2006 : 14:44:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Eve
Thanks momodou the that, but look properly, nor of those men doing what is Islam said the men should do to those wives, they only accepted taking another wife, for their good, but the equality is not there, women are suffering like hell and they seeing that, but easy for them to ignore it. And killing us saying that is the Islam law.
The only thing the men satisfied those two or three wives is to lied to them, and sychologically the women has no choices, sometimes they knew that their men is not right, but they ignore, and try to profit the life.
Eve, Some of those marriages are not really based on the real teachings of Islam. I was told by a muslim scholar that one should get the permission from the first wife before marrying a second wife. How many men ask their wifes before they marry the second wife?
Marriag contracts are allowed in Islam, so one could write down certain agreements such as "no second wife without approval from the first wife".
By the way, "Polygamy is a very ancient practice found in many human societies." Read http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?A2=ind0403&L=GAMBIA-L&P=R26103&I=-3 |
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serenata
Germany
1400 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2006 : 15:19:28
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"In most human societies, females outnumber males. In the U.S. there are, at least, eight million more women than men. In a country like Guinea there are 122 females for every 100 males. In Tanzania, there are 95.1 males per 100 females".
Hmmm... I really cherish Musa Amadou Pembos's teachings, but I only trust the statistics I faked myself... |
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