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Atahualpa
6 Posts |
 Posted - 06 Oct 2006 : 18:21:28
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 I would look very funny as a female... |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2006 : 18:26:58
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I have been stopped when travelling in a car many times and seen how the police and security treat ordinary Gambians. They can be stopped and searched and need to carry their ID at all times. This feels like intimidation to me.
I have been asked for money by corrupt officials.
I have heard the stories from the beach boys about how they are arrested for walking on the beach. Held, not given food, tortured and then released after a couple of days, never having been charged with anything. I have seen the state of some of these people and I BELIEVE them.
Gambians have told me there are spies everywhere that will report back to the government. Probably in every hotel someone works for the government. I couldnt get a single Gambian to say they were going to vote against the government in ublic. But in private many of them said it. Perhaps their courage failed them. Does someone watch which place you put your marble? Could there be intimidation? |
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serenata
Germany
1400 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2006 : 18:49:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Janyanfara
Infact most of those you can call political prisoners now in jail,are all former members of the APRC.
Janyanfara, a real democracy, a free society shouldn't have political prisoners at all. I am a little bit shocked about your view of democracy.
If a person commits a crime for 'political' reasons, like Neonazis killing black people or other foreigners, of course this person should be punished. But punishing someone just because he/she is not pro-government? |
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Jack
Belgium
384 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2006 : 23:19:40
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Alhassan,
Your comments are disappointing to me. I think you are the one who don't understand whats going on in your country.
1. Journalists are not all lyers and if they ly its easy to prove their wrong. So that's not a reason to put them in jail, murder them or make is impossible to edit their papers.
2. Opposition is essential to democracy. One party states are all dictatorial after very few years. And if Jammeh is such a wonderfull president why for gods sake is he so anxious with the opposition. He hasn't to be afraid of them.
3. We in western europe have no problems with negative critics on our governments, politicians, religions or even our royals. Thats freedom of speech. That freedom of mind and thats a basic human right.
4. Not all Gambians do really know whats going on in their country, certainly not those in the rural areas. For example : I am far more better informed in the Gambia that my gambian friends living in Serekunda and surroundings.
5. And if you think there is no problem with corruption or bribery, then it must be a long time ago that you went back to your country or you must be really blind. It starts at Yundum when you got out of the plane. For unknown reason u had to open your suitcases.... and you can count on it that there will be something missing unless you pay. If you travel upcountry you are checked one million times. Douanes, police, checkpoints, army men and other figures in uniform. Open your suitcases.... everytime again... for what reason : bribery... Yes I experienced myself. At Denton bridge some gard come out and would let me pass only I give hime something. In that case it was a map of the Gambia...
5. And do you really think that only Gambians are capable of having an opinion about Gambian society ??? So only americans can have comments on Bush, Israelis on the state of Israel.... There would be no world news anymore. I believe that it is often better that the outside world have an opinion. (sometimes) it is more objective..
Greetz.
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2006 : 10:14:23
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Alhasan and Janyafara its hypocritical to hear your views on Gambian democracy and political systems. Even outsiders knew whats happenning.....ANARCHY AND FEAR FACTOR!!!! Moreso I never trusted Janyafara as an AGENT!!!
However don't blame you as THAT IS ABSOLUTELY THE AVERAGE GAMBIAN ATTITUDES.
Read the following and your consciences will beat you on FALSE ALLEGATIONS, TO SOME EXTENT TRUTHS, FACTS AND REALITY.
Gambia: Jammeh 'Won', But the Writing Was on the Wall for Opposition under
http://allafrica.com/stories/200610060031.html
YOU WANT MORE VICTIMISATION, TERROR AND HYPOCRISY TO CONTINUE.
Compare with our neighbours also ‘Rewmi’ Divides the Country
under http://www.thepoint.gm/headlines1268.htm
Thats ARICAN POLITICS!!! |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2006 : 10:26:18
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Jack I agree with your opinnon and experience 100%. That is exactly how I have found things.
Some Gambians think corruption is in every country SO WHAT?!
It is true that NO country is perfect. But in Uk we cant bribe the SYSTEM eg to get papers faster and so on.
We have corruption higher up due to greed (not NEED). At the moment the whole of the football scene is under scrutiny for corruption. But on a day to day basis we go about our business with no corruption and everyone being accountable for everything.
Freedom of speech is something we take for granted and the thing I find most oppressive in Gambia. People are GENUINELY frightened to speak their minds.
When I go inland people have very little news from Serrekunda and Banjul. I usually take papers with me and people are anxious to read what is happening. Electricity would alter this. People could have radios and perhaps share a communal TV. News would be shared quicker. Perhaps if this happened there would be a feeling for change and more appetite for voting? |
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Sister Omega
United Kingdom
2085 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2006 : 11:49:42
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Let's rewind a bit what is the point of having a National Identity Card if Security Forces don't stop and check whether or not you've got one. Why Jack and gambiabev do you think Blair is trying to rush the National identity Card Bill through. When it does arrive the police will have the excuse to stop and search anyone at anytime. And the irony is that the British will let him do it especially when they are held to ransom by fear of terror. Britain is almost turned full circle 200 years ago they enacted Sedition Acts. Now they are trying to whip up fear by targetting muslim women who wear the veil. But have no problem with women parading semi-naked if fashion dictates.
Yes I've been stopped in Gambia once or twice on my last trip for ID, once when I was in a bush taxi and another in taxi I hired. Both times I left my passport, and just told the soliders the truth, which they accepted with no problem.
I saw a beach trader who openly wore a NADD T-shirt to work, and he had to pass security to get to his business and he's alive and kicking. In fact it was his other colleagues who told him to take it off because they didn't think it was appropriate for him to wear it to work. He didn't resist because as far as he was concerned it was just a T-Shirt given to him from someone from his compound. He had a spare in his bag.
The traders who work on the beach are issued with ID cards as stallholders and venders have the right to be on the beach at all time. So do Official Tourist Guides. It is Bumsters who are rounded up beacuse they a are a nuisance for many tourist and more important for the reputation of Gambia.
Many people in Gambia look at the Tourist Industry as one big Whore House and the Bumsters on the beach symbolise the demands of the sex industry. The Gambian Tourist Industry' Image needs to be overhauled and cleaned up. There needs to be something productive for these school leavers to do apart from hanging around hotels, hussling Tourists, for money and free tickets, if all fails saving up the money to buy a ticket on the treacherous journey to Spain.
When one points their four fingers are ponting back to them. It is one of the negative facts of tourism that visitors damage what they seek to enjoy.
As for the elections it has passed Jammeh was voted back in the rest is history. The Gambian people voted for their choice despite, what those who disagree with the Electorate might think. They rejected Darboe and Sallah because they had no clear vision to offer the people. They had five years to plan and decided to do all the work at the last minute, and still expected to win the election how delusional they were to think Gambians would fall for it. The Gambian people aren't sleeping and can't be taken for granted.
Peace
Sister Omega
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Peace
Sister Omega |
Edited by - Sister Omega on 07 Oct 2006 12:06:47 |
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MADIBA
United Kingdom
1275 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2006 : 14:52:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Sister Omega
Let's rewind a bit what is the point of having a National Identity Card if Security Forces don't stop and check whether or not you've got one. Why Jack and gambiabev do you think Blair is trying to rush the National identity Card Bill through. When it does arrive the police will have the excuse to stop and search anyone at anytime. And the irony is that the British will let him do it especially when they are held to ransom by fear of terror. Britain is almost turned full circle 200 years ago they enacted Sedition Acts. Now they are trying to whip up fear by targetting muslim women who wear the veil. But have no problem with women parading semi-naked if fashion dictates.
Yes I've been stopped in Gambia once or twice on my last trip for ID, once when I was in a bush taxi and another in taxi I hired. Both times I left my passport, and just told the soliders the truth, which they accepted with no problem.
I saw a beach trader who openly wore a NADD T-shirt to work, and he had to pass security to get to his business and he's alive and kicking. In fact it was his other colleagues who told him to take it off because they didn't think it was appropriate for him to wear it to work. He didn't resist because as far as he was concerned it was just a T-Shirt given to him from someone from his compound. He had a spare in his bag.
The traders who work on the beach are issued with ID cards as stallholders and venders have the right to be on the beach at all time. So do Official Tourist Guides. It is Bumsters who are rounded up beacuse they a are a nuisance for many tourist and more important for the reputation of Gambia.
Many people in Gambia look at the Tourist Industry as one big Whore House and the Bumsters on the beach symbolise the demands of the sex industry. The Gambian Tourist Industry' Image needs to be overhauled and cleaned up. There needs to be something productive for these school leavers to do apart from hanging around hotels, hussling Tourists, for money and free tickets, if all fails saving up the money to buy a ticket on the treacherous journey to Spain.
When one points their four fingers are ponting back to them. It is one of the negative facts of tourism that visitors damage what they seek to enjoy.
As for the elections it has passed Jammeh was voted back in the rest is history. The Gambian people voted for their choice despite, what those who disagree with the Electorate might think. They rejected Darboe and Sallah because they had no clear vision to offer the people. They had five years to plan and decided to do all the work at the last minute, and still expected to win the election how delusional they were to think Gambians would fall for it. The Gambian people aren't sleeping and can't be taken for granted.
Peace
Sister Omega
Sister that's a very conclusive one. Africa is not Europe and can NEVER be. I believe in diversity. Africa has its problems in leadership etc, so do Europe. Tourists, genuine ones are always welcomed but sex starved paedophiles stay away. Neo-colonialist too are not welcomed. Most Gambians are contented with the status quo, so please so-called democrats and demagogues leave the Gambia alone you can't make it Rwanda, Liberia or Sierra Leone, we are too consious to fall prey to western infiltrations. Even if a Mad man is elected in The Gambia, he's the president for all gambians and is EQUAL TO Bush, Blair etc in the status as head of a state. PERIOD. |
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Janyanfara
Tanzania
1350 Posts |
Posted - 07 Oct 2006 : 22:17:49
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quote:
Originally posted by serenata
quote:
Originally posted by Janyanfara
Infact most of those you can call political prisoners now in jail,are all former members of the APRC.
Janyanfara, a real democracy, a free society shouldn't have political prisoners at all. I am a little bit shocked about your view of democracy.
If a person commits a crime for 'political' reasons, like Neonazis killing black people or other foreigners, of course this person should be punished. But punishing someone just because he/she is not pro-government?
sister serenata,
why are you?I think this is a free society and people are entitled to their opinion?Would you tell please my dear sister wether you are living in a real democratic and free society world?If there should be no political prisoners in it,well tell: Mubarac[EGYPT],Musaraf[PAKISTAN],Vladiamin Putin[RUSIA], Wu Gin Tau[COMINIST CHINA],Emperor George.W.Bush[UNITED STATE EMPIRE],King Blair[UNITED KINGDOM], Murderer E l Bashir [KILLING FIELD OF SUDAN] .Just to name a few and all African leaders.
My dear sister you may or may not know me.But these are my beliefs:
(1)"Those who turture and get turture in return may never learn from their mistakes"
(2)"When the cock crows late into the night,even the thief know that dawn is near,"
(3)"One who sleeps and can hardly keep awake inthe night,should not apply to become a night watchman,"
(4)"How ever ugly a dog might be,you can always tell the whiteness of its teeth,"
"One who flinches,shrinks or winces is always thought to have a psychoanalysis mind"
Raeding the above and having a thought about them,would tell you why I said what I say sometimes.My dear sister be thoughtful 4 your brother Janyanfara is alway aware of what others think.But thats the beauty of it all.
peace,
Janyanfara |
Edited by - Janyanfara on 07 Oct 2006 22:20:00 |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2006 : 10:26:25
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Gambia: UN Envoy Says Recent Elections Were Free But Democracy Needs Support under
http://allafrica.com/stories/200610070026.html
MAIN POINT EXTRACTED ABOVE LINK:
Some opposition presidential candidates have accused the Gambian Government of manipulation during the election campaign, but Gen. Abubakr downplayed those reports and said any inappropriate actions were minor and did not affect the ultimate result.
"There have been a lot of allegations or reports which were over-exaggerated," he said, noting that independent election observers considered the polling to be largely free and fair and without any foreign interference.
But Gen. Abubakr said voter education was poor and all political parties, especially those in opposition, need help with capacity-building. He also stressed the importance of better training of the media, which he described as "ill-equipped and ill-trained."
The envoy called on the UN to increase its support of the Gambia's democratic institutions and noted that the UN Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO) is examining programmes to boost media training in the Gambia.
In my opinion some of our reservations are geared to addressed institutions and capacity building, systems development, political management of state affairs, attitudinal changes but not any subversive actions against the state to warrant tragedic comparison with Sierra Leone, Ruwanda, Sudan etc or to create enemity with the incumbent leader, certain state machinations and agencies. Why pleaing for Duta Kassama and left other victims fates crushed politically by the current system. It could be considered as double standards and I must observed that the rules have changed in this Bantaba forum under the present climate. Anything you post to expressed your opinions on the political systems and state affairs is totally against the subscriber as they see you as enemy against so and so and the NEXT TARGETED VICTIM! Its becoming really difficult to exchange ideas and opinions under present cicumstances. Think about that also!
Its just 2all Gammbians!
God bless the Gambia!
PEACE!
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Edited by - kobo on 08 Oct 2006 10:48:24 |
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Alhassan
Sweden
813 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2006 : 11:19:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Jack
Alhassan,
Your comments are disappointing to me. I think you are the one who don't understand whats going on in your country.
1. Journalists are not all lyers and if they ly its easy to prove their wrong. So that's not a reason to put them in jail, murder them or make is impossible to edit their papers.
2. Opposition is essential to democracy. One party states are all dictatorial after very few years. And if Jammeh is such a wonderfull president why for gods sake is he so anxious with the opposition. He hasn't to be afraid of them.
3. We in western europe have no problems with negative critics on our governments, politicians, religions or even our royals. Thats freedom of speech. That freedom of mind and thats a basic human right.
4. Not all Gambians do really know whats going on in their country, certainly not those in the rural areas. For example : I am far more better informed in the Gambia that my gambian friends living in Serekunda and surroundings.
5. And if you think there is no problem with corruption or bribery, then it must be a long time ago that you went back to your country or you must be really blind. It starts at Yundum when you got out of the plane. For unknown reason u had to open your suitcases.... and you can count on it that there will be something missing unless you pay. If you travel upcountry you are checked one million times. Douanes, police, checkpoints, army men and other figures in uniform. Open your suitcases.... everytime again... for what reason : bribery... Yes I experienced myself. At Denton bridge some gard come out and would let me pass only I give hime something. In that case it was a map of the Gambia...
5. And do you really think that only Gambians are capable of having an opinion about Gambian society ??? So only americans can have comments on Bush, Israelis on the state of Israel.... There would be no world news anymore. I believe that it is often better that the outside world have an opinion. (sometimes) it is more objective..
Greetz.
Jack,
I do not know where youi are coming from. I have never written that there is no briberby or curroption in the Gambia,Most of your posting is mare false accusation. It would be better if you try to read my old postings. I am not someone who does not accept the truth. Something I must make clear is that most of the lies the journalists print is there. Are you one of the journalists I mentioned? I have records where the journalist quote rumors or some of the lise one has been reading on the different online newspappers like the freedom newspaper. Most of what they print is untrue. You may be have another reason, but I hope you shall be put on the right track.
I have never mentioned anything about the opposition tellling lies, where it is true. I have given you proofs that you did not care to find out..You must be joking with your accusations Jack. If you caannot go back and read my old postings then stop your untrue comments.
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Alhassan
Sweden
813 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2006 : 11:24:52
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quote:
Originally posted by kobo
Alhasan and Janyafara its hypocritical to hear your views on Gambian democracy and political systems. Even outsiders knew whats happenning.....ANARCHY AND FEAR FACTOR!!!! Moreso I never trusted Janyafara as an AGENT!!!
However don't blame you as THAT IS ABSOLUTELY THE AVERAGE GAMBIAN ATTITUDES.
Read the following and your consciences will beat you on FALSE ALLEGATIONS, TO SOME EXTENT TRUTHS, FACTS AND REALITY.
Gambia: Jammeh 'Won', But the Writing Was on the Wall for Opposition under
http://allafrica.com/stories/200610060031.html
YOU WANT MORE VICTIMISATION, TERROR AND HYPOCRISY TO CONTINUE.
Compare with our neighbours also ‘Rewmi’ Divides the Country
under http://www.thepoint.gm/headlines1268.htm
Thats ARICAN POLITICS!!!
Kobo,
You people must be joking. You do not want to accept defeat or belive in the observers that were in the country. You cannot win by force if the Gambian voters vote against your favour. This is what you have to accept. You sound like Pa Nderry, when you want people to belive in your untrue stories. Remember time will tell. Living in Europe does not mean that you are the one to decide for Africa. Those who are there and experiencing things have the right to decide, not you who fled the country. I belive in the Gambian voters and their decission. You people can say what ever you want , but the results cannot vbe changed because of you Gambians in the diaspora. You have to go back and register as voters if you want your vote to be counted. |
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Alhassan
Sweden
813 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2006 : 11:40:43
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quote:
Originally posted by kobo
Gambia: UN Envoy Says Recent Elections Were Free But Democracy Needs Support under
http://allafrica.com/stories/200610070026.html
MAIN POINT EXTRACTED ABOVE LINK:
Some opposition presidential candidates have accused the Gambian Government of manipulation during the election campaign, but Gen. Abubakr downplayed those reports and said any inappropriate actions were minor and did not affect the ultimate result.
"There have been a lot of allegations or reports which were over-exaggerated," he said, noting that independent election observers considered the polling to be largely free and fair and without any foreign interference.
But Gen. Abubakr said voter education was poor and all political parties, especially those in opposition, need help with capacity-building. He also stressed the importance of better training of the media, which he described as "ill-equipped and ill-trained."
The envoy called on the UN to increase its support of the Gambia's democratic institutions and noted that the UN Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO) is examining programmes to boost media training in the Gambia.
In my opinion some of our reservations are geared to addressed institutions and capacity building, systems development, political management of state affairs, attitudinal changes but not any subversive actions against the state to warrant tragedic comparison with Sierra Leone, Ruwanda, Sudan etc or to create enemity with the incumbent leader, certain state machinations and agencies. Why pleaing for Duta Kassama and left other victims fates crushed politically by the current system. It could be considered as double standards and I must observed that the rules have changed in this Bantaba forum under the present climate. Anything you post to expressed your opinions on the political systems and state affairs is totally against the subscriber as they see you as enemy against so and so and the NEXT TARGETED VICTIM! Its becoming really difficult to exchange ideas and opinions under present cicumstances. Think about that also!
Its just 2all Gammbians!
God bless the Gambia!
PEACE!
Kobo,
Your posting shows that you your selr did not say the truthh The observers did not point out anybody as faulty of freud as some of the opposition said. All you said was the elections were not fare and I said the Gambians voted for their choice. When it comes to Gambian poliotics, I am less intrested becaues of the fact that most of you are tribal minded. You vote because the candidate belongs to the same language group. I am not like that. This is your problem with me. I do not belive in tribalism, and mostly what I hese is Jammeh is a Jola and we shall not vote for the Jolas. This is your main problem. Rome was not build in a day. Moreover you Gambians in the diaspora cannot dictate what takes place in the Gambia. In fact most of the artickles posted by some of you against the Gambian leader is untrue. This is the problem. Try to post facts and stop giving your country a bad name. Most of you looking for visas and staying permits seem to give your country a nasty name in other to be accepted as a refugee in the US or Europe. Stop this right away. This is why anybody who speaks possitive about Gambia is said to be APRC. This is nonsense.
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Alhassan
Sweden
813 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2006 : 11:56:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Jack
Alhassan,
Your comments are disappointing to me. I think you are the one who don't understand whats going on in your country.
1. Journalists are not all lyers and if they ly its easy to prove their wrong. So that's not a reason to put them in jail, murder them or make is impossible to edit their papers.
2. Opposition is essential to democracy. One party states are all dictatorial after very few years. And if Jammeh is such a wonderfull president why for gods sake is he so anxious with the opposition. He hasn't to be afraid of them.
3. We in western europe have no problems with negative critics on our governments, politicians, religions or even our royals. Thats freedom of speech. That freedom of mind and thats a basic human right.
4. Not all Gambians do really know whats going on in their country, certainly not those in the rural areas. For example : I am far more better informed in the Gambia that my gambian friends living in Serekunda and surroundings.
5. And if you think there is no problem with corruption or bribery, then it must be a long time ago that you went back to your country or you must be really blind. It starts at Yundum when you got out of the plane. For unknown reason u had to open your suitcases.... and you can count on it that there will be something missing unless you pay. If you travel upcountry you are checked one million times. Douanes, police, checkpoints, army men and other figures in uniform. Open your suitcases.... everytime again... for what reason : bribery... Yes I experienced myself. At Denton bridge some gard come out and would let me pass only I give hime something. In that case it was a map of the Gambia...
5. And do you really think that only Gambians are capable of having an opinion about Gambian society ??? So only americans can have comments on Bush, Israelis on the state of Israel.... There would be no world news anymore. I believe that it is often better that the outside world have an opinion. (sometimes) it is more objective..
Greetz.
Jack,
I have my relatives whom I speak to ever week twice or trice. I know what is happening because my relatives live the same way they had lived during Jawaras regime. They are only Gambians and nothing else. They work and pay taxes and have no negative comments. I visit Gambia any time I want and have never been in trouble with the law or lawenforcement agencies. This is my experience. |
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Cornelius
Sweden
1051 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2006 : 19:15:32
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Is there an essential distinction between fact and fiction? Between the true and the false? Between right and wrong?
http://www.thegambiajournal.com/artman/publish/cat_index_1.shtml
For Muslims one criterion of distinction is provided by the Qur'an:
2.256:
YUSUFALI: Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.
PICKTHAL: There is no compulsion in religion. The right direction is henceforth distinct from error. And he who rejecteth false deities and believeth in Allah hath grasped a firm handhold which will never break. Allah is Hearer, Knower.
SHAKIR: There is no compulsion in religion; truly the right way has become clearly distinct from error; therefore, whoever disbelieves in the Shaitan and believes in Allah he indeed has laid hold on the firmest handle, which shall not break off, and Allah is Hearing, Knowing.
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Edited by - Cornelius on 08 Oct 2006 19:35:15 |
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