 |
|
| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Bronx
USA
159 Posts |
 Posted - 21 Aug 2006 : 21:15:50
|
We will have to agree to disagree on this topic. Halifaism is alive and well and critics like myself and SS Daffeh do not want to passively sit around reading halifarites heap blame for the breakdown of NADD on the UDP/NRP with the usual accompanying connotations. You never hear them say that Halifa and Co should just join the UDP/NRP alliance for the good of the nation. It is always the other way around with this crowd. To use a poker term, they have crappy hand but want to bluff their opponents.
I will be the first to say that UDP/NRP should never sign that MOU. It is not democratic. It is socialist in nature. If we are coming together, we should take into consideration what each party is bringing to the table. A party like NDAM that has never contested any elections in the country shouldn't be equated with the UDP or NRP. Electoral democracy is all about numbers. The larger party always take the lead in alliances. From the alliance in Senegal to kenya and Ukraine, it is always about what size of the electorate you command that determines what control you have in an alliance. Halifa want us to ignore that and go with his socialist ideology of some equality utopia where hotheads like Waa Juwara can try to undermine and settle scores. It is not going to happen. And if any body think this dynamic will change post september, they are delusional. |
 |
|
|
Biraago
Gambia
173 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2006 : 22:09:29
|
Don't you think that it is due to your own political inaptitude or even plain dishonesty?
UDP (or for some, a tribal) agenda is not what the Gambians are yearning for.
NADD never concluded as to who shall be it's flag bearer, but since the whole unspoken and dishonnest strategy for you lot was just to be at the summit and dictate to all and sundry, for my part i would say, THANK GOD, that the scheme never materialised.
As both Darboe (in his interview with the Gambia post) and Hamat Bah during his recent tour for the USA have spellt it very clearly for all to know that, the UDP would never have conceded to a Nation Peoples democratic set-up, because as they both said: WE ARE THE MAJORITY, and would never accept to be lead by anyone else.
Furthermore, we were told by the super opportunist Hamat that an Alliance with the other parties can only happen under the conditional leadership of Darboe.
This is something that NADD is not shying away from, beacause we are not intrested in who the flagbearer is to be but rather what program of action is to be presented to the electorate.
Unfortunately, in the letter recieved from Darboe on behave of the UDP, you told the whole world that, it is not a neccessity to agree on the program of action but rather voting for him in obscurity and then the program would come later.
How can Gambians be so dishonest or wicked so as to tell the people, to behave as some stupid *****s and sell themselves as slave to a fellow Gambian in 2006 when our people have been and are still fighting against colonialism, neocolonialism, imperialism and feudalism for over 400 years.
Halifa has decleared over and over in written form for the whole world to witness: He said to all of us that, thge post of flag bearer for NADD of any resonable Alliance that could cater for the basic demands of the Gambian people is open to anyone who has such a desire. That either NADD or the people can just come to the NADD executive and demand for his removal and put in place a program that would be the blue print our our collective emancipation and a leader better suited for the job.
notwithsatnding, we have never been offered any tangible proposal from anybody but yet the hypocrites are still throwing shaollow acusations left, right and center. Neither Daffeh or anyone of these diviators of the Gambian struggle have ofered their energy to face the Gambian people on the ground.
If we should take the argument of being the "MAJORITY" as oppose to an alternative democratic program, it would be best to just go and join YAHYA Jammeh because he is holding the majority (by hook or by crook). Since it seems not to matter for some what the qualities inbued in that majority claim is about.
In the same vain can we all resurrect the attitude of Adolf Hitler and Edi Amin or the British colonialists because they had the majortity with them at one time.
Honestty is a virtue that should be one of the pilars of our social and political life. |
|
|
|
Bronx
USA
159 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2006 : 23:19:02
|
Biragoo,
Notwithstanding your infatile rhetoric the dynamic on the ground stands. If you want to equate UDP with a tribe, be my guest. However I will venture to say that it is an insult to the person of people like Femi Peters, Yahya Jallow, Shyngle Nyassi, Amadou Taal and MC Cham just to name a few. These are honorable Gambians who cast their lot with the UDP but the connotation you made in your tribalist rhetoric is nothing but hogwash. What were you thinking when you wrote crap like this:
"UDP (or for some, a tribal) agenda is not what the Gambians are yearning for."
Are you serious? You want to tell me that you and your lot are more principled and patriotic than this folks? You want to equate UDP with tribe when a casual look at its makeup will let any truthful observer figure that it is an amalgam of different tribes that make up the Gambia. This is the type of innuendo that people like yourself use to break up NADD and you still at it with the knowledge that it is bull **** you propagating. Chei.
|
|
|
|
Biraago
Gambia
173 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2006 : 00:57:58
|
Here again is another evidence of thepolitics of dishonesty by unpatriotic "Gambians".
You can decipher for yourself I know that you are blinded by the lack of consciousness and could not see the point in hand.
"Notwithstanding your infatile rhetoric the dynamic on the ground stands. If you want to equate UDP with a tribe, be my guest."
"UDP (or for some, a tribal) agenda is not what the Gambians are yearning for."
For you to understand better, the above sentense means that some people are equating UDP with "tribal" affiliation. If you are one of them, as it shows by your trying to justify the contrary in trying very hard to show that this is not the case using the old method.
e.g. A hidden racist would always tell you:
I am not a racist, i have black and chinese friends.
Anyway, some of us are Gambians and hunaman beings first before the advent of any political party jokeying for power today.
In the end people will see through the unpatriotic manipulators. |
|
|
|
Bronx
USA
159 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2006 : 03:48:05
|
Bira,
I think I am wasting my time debating with a knucklehead like you. You injected tribe into the equation first but seems to have amnesia that you freaking did. If you think you are more patroitic than the rest of us then cest la vie. Anyone who disagrees with your halifaism is branded tribalist and unpatriotic. You think you have a lock on truth and don't even hedge the fact that you are just a rambling fanatic blinded by the aura of your saint Halifa.
I guess the final analysis is: You stay with your cause and I do mine and may the best candidate win. Whatever you do please don't come here to insult the tens of thousands of Gambians who don't agree with you.Don't call them unpatriotic or tribalist. It is their right to choose who they want to lead them. You may not agree with them. That is your right as well.What kind of a democrat try to force their will and idea on others? That is authoritarian...I don't expect you to understand that. |
Edited by - Bronx on 22 Aug 2006 03:49:30 |
|
|
|
Nyarikangbanna
United Kingdom
1382 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2006 : 07:57:34
|
We had this debate for almost two weeks now and not a single time did anyone thought about tribalism because it is no where to be found. Now a tribalist is trying to obscure the whole thing by injecting his nasty side into it. It is an insult to all of us. Let no one engage him, gentlemen, for doing so would be demeaning for us all. Let’s maintain our Gmbianness and isolate this menace.
I look forward to your cooperation in this matter.
Thanks
|
I do not oppose unity but I oppose dumb union. |
|
|
|
kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2006 : 10:11:47
|
Bronx I don't see any prospect of "best candidate wins" applicable in Gambian or African politics? We want a democratically elected government through an atmosphere considered "free and fair or with a level field for all contestants (if feasible, available or guaranteed)". Bringing Halifa to task on the sso-called "bad?" constitution appears to be unfair on him and a smear campaign to denounce or discredit him.
I could recalled many stakeholders (including The Gambia Bar Association) proposals to be incorporated in the draft of the Constitution before the referandum. Lawyer Prominent Gambian Lawyers including Darboe, Ousman Sillah, Surahata Jammeh, Sam Sarr etc were part of the Bar Association and upon research perhaps we can recover their propsals submitted. Those may be very good proposals but have both legal and political issues to harmonise under the prevailing circumstances at that time. Remember tose are the hey days of AFPRC's (military rule) and they insisted granting themselves annesty and dictate all the terms and legal provisions they require on the draft constitution to suit them. I think there is no grounds to use Halifa as a scapegoat. You are reminded Halifa is no Saint(as no man is infallible) but obliged to be called a humble democrat as thats what he advocates in his words, actions and conduct of political business. He is also a political mentor in the eyes of many Gambians and a proper patriot (100% in all respects).
In my opinion he is the best politician and may not be eligible Presidential candidate because he and his party or supporters does not have an edged in Gambian politics.
Finally would like Bantaba Admin. whether they can retrieve from any archives the resolutions by the Gambia Bar Association forwarded for the draft Constitution to update this topic. |
|
|
|
kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2006 : 10:18:50
|
quote:
Originally posted by Nyarikangbanna
Baldehbanna, thanks for your posting. I also have great respect for you even though we defer in opinion. Notwithstanding this, I do not think you are right to say UDP/NRP walked away from the Table. They were forced to leave and I respect their decision to leave. If I were in a similar situation I would have done the same.
You failed to mention the factors that necessitated their departure. I am not going to go back to what I said before in the Allgambian.net but make no mistake, I standby every single word I said therein.
This debate is now exhausted. Halifa is going to stand because he is determined to be the spoiler he wants to be. That is the reality we got to live with.
Thanks for your thoughts.
Nyarinkanbana, can you substantiate what factors that necessitated their departure? Explain the drama and terms of disagreement and why they cannot engaged themselves on the way forward in uniting together as a National alliance? I have missed a lot and solicit your attention please. |
|
|
|
kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2006 : 10:35:16
|
quote:
Originally posted by Bronx
We will have to agree to disagree on this topic. Halifaism is alive and well and critics like myself and SS Daffeh do not want to passively sit around reading halifarites heap blame for the breakdown of NADD on the UDP/NRP with the usual accompanying connotations. You never hear them say that Halifa and Co should just join the UDP/NRP alliance for the good of the nation. It is always the other way around with this crowd. To use a poker term, they have crappy hand but want to bluff their opponents.
I will be the first to say that UDP/NRP should never sign that MOU. It is not democratic. It is socialist in nature. If we are coming together, we should take into consideration what each party is bringing to the table. A party like NDAM that has never contested any elections in the country shouldn't be equated with the UDP or NRP. Electoral democracy is all about numbers. The larger party always take the lead in alliances. From the alliance in Senegal to kenya and Ukraine, it is always about what size of the electorate you command that determines what control you have in an alliance. Halifa want us to ignore that and go with his socialist ideology of some equality utopia where hotheads like Waa Juwara can try to undermine and settle scores. It is not going to happen. And if any body think this dynamic will change post september, they are delusional.
You appear to be uncompromising in opening further propects of negotiations for unity. Its not about promoting our selves interests (ie. UDP/NRP) as we command the numbers and should dictate the terms. I don't trust the leadership of UDP/NRP (including you Bronx)as genuinely having the interest of Gambians. How can you weed out certain Gambians with potentials by declaring that you cannot compromise to work with them at all cost? Its really strange to me and don't trust your ranks as good policy makers for the common good. You are exposing hatred and smear campaign to destroy certain personalities who are willing to bury the hatchet and work together with you. Instead they are considered as being rejects and makes me raise eyebrows on UDP/NRP leadership. |
|
|
|
Biraago
Gambia
173 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2006 : 15:39:59
|
The non-genuine debators always withdraw when they are exposed or captured in their own lies.
We have had lots of articles in which you people, particularly SS daffeh has been demonising Halifa (as Ayatollah, Saint etc...), OJ (as a tribalist etc...) and NADD supporters (as talibeh).
Many among you are just changing your identities by the day thinking that we don't recognise your new fasade. You are the same people who were spreading the lies that NADD supproters don't want to see a leader elected from a particular "tribe" which you always mention.
You think that the majority of Gambians would be so reactionary as to be campaigning for so-called "tribe"? We are way past that stage.
- NADD supporters are not followers of a particular person but rather a "Development program".
- We are striving for the peaceful unity of all Gambians irrespective of all self-identifications including you yourselves. That also takes into account, the people who have fallen into the web of the AFRC amongs other sections of our population (civilian or members of the secrity forces).
- We select a person who has the qualities embodied in our development program as the HEAD-Servant of the people and not a dictator. Today, it is Halifa and it could be any genuine Gambian tomorrow. So we are not creating a monarch to Rule us.
- We are in the era of Self-emancipation and not servitute.
Thus it would be a blessing, if your come with a progressive rethoric and stop overloading us with baseless and deviative accusation designed to further strengthen the cause of the dictator.
One wonders if you people are even supporters of the UDP since you spend most of your time attacking NADD and Halifa rather than Jammeh and the APRC. We assure you that, you shall be exposed, if you happen to be Jammeh agents. You have doctrate degrees in twisting the truth.
Some of us react to your stupid writting just for the fact that their are many Gambian who just read the forum but don't contribute in writting. We cannot allows lies to reach their souls.
As Dalton always reminds you people.
NADD's goal is to unite all progressive Gambians for National Peaceful and Just development in which every Gambian would play a positive role to the level of his/her ability. NADD is a National front for the self-emencipation of every Gambian.
Even Yahya Jammeh/APRC and all the other political entities have now rialised this noble desire of NADD, that's why they are having a though time to come up with counter arguments against NADD.
I wish you a lighter heart that could make you all rialise that only a genuine desire for progress for all in the Gambian is the way forward. |
|
|
|
kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2006 : 17:00:26
|
Lets addressed the poicies, programs, visions and advocacy and stop smear campaigns and personal attacks to discredit or tarnised our few high profile politicians in the pursuit of justice, equity and fair play. Humble Halifa can never be left out in the band wagon of politicians we have at the moment. Thats the truth without any doubt or hypocrisy.
To show Pa Saikou Kujabi and supporters that allegations against Halifa about the Constitution as baseless, refer to this article "President Jammeh owns Gambia" for more answers under http://allafrica.com/stories/200608220293.html
Its obvious by in very simple terms to dicredit Pa Saikou's premise of 'Halifa owning all the defects of the revised 1997 Constitution' by acknowledgement of how the Legislative and all organs of government can easily be manipulated and always done since AFPRC came to power from the above article.
Before producing my article as counter rebuttal of Pa Saikou Kujabi's letter. Can anyone help or Admin. update this topic with this letter referred by UDP/ NRP and referenced: NADD/FA/02/02/06 of 6th August 2006. If available please post under this topic as we are dealing with facts and merits of arguments. |
Edited by - kobo on 22 Aug 2006 17:18:48 |
|
|
|
Bronx
USA
159 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2006 : 17:20:43
|
| We can debate here until Kingdom come. However that will not change the dynamics on the ground. From the begining of this debate I alluded to my perception that Halifa Sallah is a smart guy. I don't agree with everything he does. My bone of contention from the get go was that the blame for the breakdown of the initial NADD project could go all around. And that Halifa is as petulant in this regard as Ousainou and Hamat are. I will desist from this debate from here on. It looks like we've all made up our mind like the folks on the ground. So long folks...I am moving on to the next thread. |
|
|
|
kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2006 : 17:46:59
|
| BRONX , do you agree with everything that Darboe says and does ? I am just curious. |
|
|
|
kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2006 : 18:38:50
|
quote:
Originally posted by Bronx
We can debate here until Kingdom come. However that will not change the dynamics on the ground. From the begining of this debate I alluded to my perception that Halifa Sallah is a smart guy. I don't agree with everything he does. My bone of contention from the get go was that the blame for the breakdown of the initial NADD project could go all around. And that Halifa is as petulant in this regard as Ousainou and Hamat are. I will desist from this debate from here on. It looks like we've all made up our mind like the folks on the ground. So long folks...I am moving on to the next thread.
Thanks Bronx for severance of the blame for the breakdown of NADD to all parties involved. However on individual basis what can you specifically advance or point out for blame to rest on them respectively? It appears that you are now gracefully acknowledging thta NADD (not own by Halifa, Darboe, Hamat, Waa or O.J but a STDGP) as the way forward; for solutions and answers, what specifically cause disintegration of NADD? Do you have alternative suggestions and proposals on the way forward to make them unite under mutual trust between them?
Finally am appealing to you to revitalise yourself on this topic and igonre the personal issues (leaving Darboe, Hamat, Halifa or UDP, NRP, PDOIS, PPP etc alone) and deal with the macro policy issues, campaign strategies and any good proposals on development and viable national programs tenable for our common good. We want to mobilise every potential 'brain' or human resources in the political arena to redirect their efforts for fulfillment of new dreams and hopes for a better future and prospects for Gambians in the interest of PEACE, PROGRESS, PROSPERITY AND STABILITY. I count on you Bronx to ignore the personal trivial issues. |
Edited by - kobo on 22 Aug 2006 18:50:33 |
|
|
|
dbaldeh
USA
934 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2006 : 19:42:30
|
Politics of personality always breed tribal sentiments. From the get go, when Daffeh now Nyarikangbanna went on a rampage against Halifa I intervened to try to stop the politics of personality. I knew for sure Daffeh and many supporters of the UDP are only tied to the party because of tribal lines. Not a single one of them will explain programs of the UDP.
On the contrary, those of us who embraced the NADD idea dwell on their programs that the party advocates. We are not tied to any personality. We only defend Halifa because he has the integrity and leadership quality that can safe our country.
So the tribal line is very uncomfortable for many of us, but deep inside many of us we know what the facts are on the ground. Until we start debating those facts openly, we are not ready for genuine political dialogue.
I am willing and ready to confront anyone on the issue of tribal sentiments. It is healthy for us to debate it no matter how unconfortable they are. Here are some facts on tribal issues.
First Darboe came into politics because the majority tribe in the Gambia (Mandinka) long time party the NCP was banned. Darboe has never express interest in politics. His Demeanor up to now shows his lack of interest in politics.
Second, Hamat Bah came into politics because he thinks my tribe Fulas will rally behind him so he can gain access into politics and find his easy way abroad. His name has never been heard in Gambian politics. The small percentage of votes he got was because of his tribal affilliation.
Third, Assan Musa Camara broke up from the PPP and form his own party because he expected my tribe Fulas to back him, thus the "JAWARA GIPOH" slogan.
Fourth, the numerous tribal fights between what you called the Banjul Mafia and the Teri Kafos of Alhagie yahya ceesay, B.B Darboe and others has a historic land mark in our political history. These are all evidence of tribal politics in the Gambia.
The good thing and the neutralizing factor in all these divisions is the Great work of our Banjul sisters who broke the tribal lines and started marrying across the board. Starting from Sir Dawda, Ousainou Darboe, Mathew Yahya Baldeh,Yahya Jammeh, and several other prominent Gambian politicians all married from another tribe. This is what broke the wall between our tribes and it is what is responsible for most of our tribal integration and peaceful coexistence.
The unfortunate underline fact is that tribalism is still alive and well in our society and national politics. We only supress it to gain recognition from the other side. The example given by Bronx about members like Feme Petters, Yahya Jallow, Syingle Nyassi are all meant to give the UDP party a sign of inclusiveness. The danger and the facts in that kind of party formation gets expose when the party supporters are not willing to embrace anyone but the so called majority party leader. This is a fact as UDP/NRP today and forever will never select Hamat Bah as the party flagbearer.
The likes of Daffeh have some very dangerous hidden political agendas. Your line of support smell tribalist in whatever form you put it. So long as you are willing to debate the candidate and not the programs you are exposing yourselves more and more to the Gambian people. As for Bronx no matter what colors you hide in, you have not given this forum a single substance for advancement of the Gambian people. You are equally quilty of politics of personality, which is a recipe for tribal monarchs.
Gambians will never allow politics of tribalism to take over our country. We should learn from our sister African countries the price of tribalism and nepotism. We should all do away with politics of personality and debate the issues. After all, we all suffer under the brutality of a dictorial regime. So the way forward is to say:
No to tribal candidates
No to parties without progressive programs
No to candidates who count on tribes for votes |
Baldeh,
"Be the change you want to see in the world" Ghandi
Visit http://www.gainako.com for your daily news and politics |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
| Bantaba in Cyberspace |
© 2005-2024 Nijii |
|
|
|
Topic Locked
