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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
 Posted - 02 Jul 2006 : 11:15:56
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One thing I do like about America (about the only thing!) is that the white americans I know are GLAD of your success NOT jealous. I think this stems from the fact that they do really believe that if they work hard they can achieve too. If you have an equal open society then jealousy SHOULD be less. (Think the equal society bit in usa is a bit of a myth for black americans).
In Gambia society is less individualistic and there is a belief that good fortune should be shared around. When I have visited my guide afterwards he is put under pressure by people to give them money because they presume I have given HIM money. I dont always give very much, so it is difficult for him. I am a friend of the family and would like to go to the village alot, but because of what OTHER people expect I can only afford to go once each visit.
In a society where the opportunity to succeed is very limited then people will be jealous of others good fortune. Interestingly the close friends of this family ARENT jealous, they are glad for them that I help, because they were very poor in the village and the father is very old and ill.It is the outer circle of people that put him under pressure. |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2006 : 11:17:51
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| WAY off topic. SORRY!!! |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2006 : 11:24:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Babylon
Itīs not a new statement that Karl Marx was a racist, why donīt you go and do some googleing those of you who donīt know he was a racist. Especially against jews and blacks. One of his favorite words were infact Jewish ******... I say no more.
Yalowe and Babylon. Thanks for the information as NO MAN IS PERFECT! In some schools of thought "Don't rely, look or follow your teachers actions rather rely and exploit the doctrines being thought."  |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2006 : 11:33:28
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quote:
Originally posted by gambiabev
WAY off topic. SORRY!!!
APOLOGY ACCEPTED! |
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ylowe
USA
217 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2006 : 03:59:33
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Marx was a racist and anti- semite. Concerning the annexation of california after the Mexican-American war, Marx wrote: "Without violence nothing is ever accomplished in history." Then he asks, "Is it a misfortune that magnificent California was seized from the lazy Mexicans who did not know what to do with it?"
Much of Marx's ideas can be found in a book written by former communist Nathaniel Weyl, titled "Karl Marx, Racist"(1979). In July 1862 letter to Engels, in refernce to his socialist political competitor, Ferdinand lasalle, Marx wrote, " It is noo completely clear to me that he, as is proved by his cranial formation and his hair, descend from the negroes from Egypt, assuming that his mother or grandmother had not interbred with a negro. Now this union of judaism and Germanism with a basic negro sustances must produce a peculiar product. The obtrusiveness of the fellow is also negro-like."
Engels shared much of Marx's racial philosophy. In 1887, Paul LAfargue,who was Marx's son in law, was a candidate for a council seat in a Paris district that contained a zoo. Engels claimed that Paul had "one-eighth or one-twelfth black blood." Engels wrote, "Being in his quality as a black, a degree nearer to the rest of the animal kingdom than the rest of us, he is undoubtedly the most appropriate representative of that district."
Marx, Engel, Carlyle and dickens all share one belief prevalent throughout mankind's history down to today: the belief that some people are endowed with superior intelligence and wisdom and they've been ordained to forcibly impose that wisdom on the masses.
Njucks, i provided some refernces and please check it. |
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njucks
Gambia
1131 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2006 : 11:23:07
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thank Ylowe. i read your text/references but most of what i saw was other people Engel, Carlyle etc not what Marx himself wrote.
i think this is a complex question and Marx was no different from most of the academics of his time. i'm not making an excuse.
but its strange to call him anti semite as he was JEWISH and from a rabbbi family? having written the Communist Manifesto he was also very anti-russian, etc
he was just a complex character, i guess.
i have not read much about him as i believe in making money not the extreme socialist type.
thanks |
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Sister Omega
United Kingdom
2085 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2006 : 13:41:35
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Apparently Marxixt historians proclaimed Sourjourner Truth former slave Abolitionist and Woman Rights Advocate for her contribution to social reform in America in 1840's and 1850's. She was an African American.
Peace
Sister Omega |
Peace
Sister Omega |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2006 : 23:59:47
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Kons:
do you see what i mean by saying that Marx is perhaps the most misunderstood teacher in history ?
But most of the discussion here is a distraction from SISTER ONEGA's contention that democracy is inapplicable in the African and Gambian context which i strongly opposed. |
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Sitasungo
77 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2006 : 00:35:32
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Hey
I don't even know karl marx.Therefore,I cannot comment but anyone who has Hitler idea is not good for human race whether black or white.
peace
sita. |
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2006 : 18:23:10
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quote:
Originally posted by kayjatta
Kons:
do you see what i mean by saying that Marx is perhaps the most misunderstood teacher in history ?
But most of the discussion here is a distraction from SISTER ONEGA's contention that democracy is inapplicable in the African and Gambian context which i strongly opposed.
I agree. Max is as controversial as controversy itself. History is the better judge. |
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serenata
Germany
1400 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2006 : 18:44:53
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| Karl Marx was excellent at diagnosis (and, partly, prognosis), but his prescriptions are questionable... |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2006 : 20:52:25
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I agree ! Marx was contrversial , so was Einstein , Galileo, Socrates, Rousseau, Smith,Nkrumah, and all those who contributed to the pool of knowledge created by mankind all these centuries.
But controversy per se is not the point. The point is how we can utilize this wealth of knowledge to create progress. That is why i tried to tell Somita and Sister Onega ( who insist that democracy is not practicable for Gambia and Africa)that we do not have to re-invent the wheel because it 's already been invented.
We have a democratic platform in the Gambia that we can build on and craete progress and hapiness for our citizens rather throw it all awayfor a "so-called" new system. I want them to tell me what that system is.
Most skeptics of democracy are dictators in disguise.Remember Jammeh's attacks on democracy when he took over power newly ?
Remember Gaddaffi and his "Green Book" ideas ? There is no middle ground between democracy and dictatorship.
This discussion has gone way over board. We needs to focus on how to implement genuine democracy in the Gambia. |
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somita
United Kingdom
163 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jul 2006 : 10:41:44
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Kayjatta generalisation is not very helpful in debates, infact it has all the tendancies of ignorance. I'm not against democracy as a system of governance, i have seen it worked and with the right conditions its best available. However I dont believe it can be imported and implemented under different set up conditions. If a system has not worked for 40 odd years, be it a tried and tested system, i would be inclined to continue supporting that system.
My proposition is that we as a people need to start thinking outside the box on how best to creating a system that will work for our people, a system that will not create dictators and tyrants. That might mean re-inventing democracy in a way related to the environment of our people. I strongly believe that for any system of governance to deliver, soceity has to take ownership of it, not only in practice but also in its creation, this however is lack in our system of democracy .... its very distant from the people it governs and at worse foreign .... that might be why is not working.
As far as am concern, its a lazyman's options to continue support a system that is failing day in day out with the hope that it will improve. The ealier we start thinking out side the box, the better for our people. |
Edited by - somita on 08 Jul 2006 10:43:32 |
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jambo
3300 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jul 2006 : 16:25:21
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Somita
"My proposition is that we as a people need to start thinking outside the box on how best to creating a system that will work for our people, a system that will not create dictators and tyrants". On this point some people will deny that they are living in a box. Any system you could suggest would create tyrants, On the african continent a fair voting and transparent voting system would help. Look at gambia election, some members of the bantaba believe that it is a closed shop !!
good education would help, access to media another way of helping people to think outside the box. but look at gambia's media so control its frightening. |
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njucks
Gambia
1131 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jul 2006 : 17:44:03
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quote:
Originally posted by somita
My proposition is that we as a people need to start thinking outside the box on how best to creating a system that will work for our people, a system that will not create dictators and tyrants. That might mean re-inventing democracy in a way related to the environment of our people. I strongly believe that for any system of governance to deliver, soceity has to take ownership of it, not only in practice but also in its creation, this however is lack in our system of democracy .... its very distant from the people it governs and at worse foreign .... that might be why is not working.
Somita i think Kayjatta is right. we have a long tradition of democracy and we should BUILD/IMPROVE it and not throw it away. of all the African countries its the Gambia that took multiparty deomcracy from day one. the other closest is Senegal which was offically a one party state in the begining until the mid-70s.
ownership of anyway system will depend on the level of education of the public. the more educated the people are the more established democracy will be. thats the key, EDUCATION. even if we are to take your proposal with such low levels of education who do you think is going to do the THINKING/DESIGN of this new system for the whole country????.
i read somewhere that Democracy is not the best form of government but its better than everything else. India has democracy for 60yrs now but it not solving all her problems but its still works. China is a communist state and despite its growth basic freedoms not available.all the Democratic nations with ''Democratic values'' are blinding pumping billions into China knowing very well the ''Non-Democratic values'' of the Chinese government/system
imagine if you and i stand for election today. the entire process/campaign will be about Somita is short and I am tall. you are this and i am that.its a personality cult!! why? but when people are educated, can read and write then you and I will be talking about education policy, Health,poverty, infrastructure, debt etc because we will both be aware that the audience is a bit smarter now!
lets stick to democracy, the evidence favours it. at independence many of your Ideas were suggested and tried. they all failed. some tried to customise it others rejected it, their economies went down hill. there was even talk of African Socialism. Nyerere tried something in Tanzania, noble as it is , it didnt work. |
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