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Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
 Posted - 27 Aug 2010 : 02:07:06
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turk,
I prefer “collaboration” to “Unity” in this deadlock. Do not be blindfolded by the constitution, and forget that it is a guideline as well. Let’s be a little more creative here, after all we have to be innovative in paving the way forward. One thing is certain any form of cooperation most be based on TRUST. With trust there are many forms of collaboration possible but without trust even a merge would not suffice. |
Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
Edited by - Janko on 27 Aug 2010 02:07:52 |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2010 : 03:06:24
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Janko
I wish I were optimist like you about politics/politicians. But I am not sure if it is realistic in politics. Business and politics are based on 'interests' and 'power', unfortunately, not only in Gambia, anywhere, if there is no constitutional guarantee politicians do not act based on promises/trusts. Politic is very dirty and politicians are even dirtier. This is not about Gambians or anyone, it is human nature. In West Ministry democracies, if there is coalition, a party has a tool to put pressure. If the party withdraw from coalition, the government needs to have another consensus or they need to call early election. Parties in Gambia do not have this after election to put pressure on the government. Politics is all about power and where power is involved people became selfish/greedy. I do not think you can rely on 'trust', i would have rather constitutional guarantee and I would want a tool to apply my will.
I do not see any other option other than NADD type of format to unite the opposition. And, I also believe, people can work with the current government to improve Gambia and Gambian government. If you can't beat, join them. And change things within the current government. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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terangba
Egypt
225 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2010 : 03:54:37
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Turk; power can be shared when parties agree to share key positions in the Government like in Kenya. Also parties can choose to go their separate ways after the first term. Like I said before we cannot say my party will not agree to this and that without offering solutions. It is easy to say no to ideas, it is clear to all and sundry there is a major impasse. We cannot afford to keep looking back and expect progress. The task is to offer alternatives.
If Gambians believe that APRC is preferable to a future coalition Government then there is no need to waste out time debating. On the other hand if we believe in a better tomorrow and realize that we have a shared destiny we should put our heads together and work to achieve unity.
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God gave men dominion over the beasts and not over his fellow men unless they submit of their own free will. - Napoleon |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2010 : 09:37:29
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Terangba
I am not satisfied with your response. You claim parties can agree to share the power but you don't tell us 'how' and based on what constitutional mechanism. How can the power be shared? What is the format to unite opposition? Are you suggesting that members of other parties resign and join UDP? A merge?
p.s. Kenya has changed the Constitution recently in order to reform their political system.
People do not like uncertainty. As Shaka mentioned before, voters would choose Jammeh they know, as opposition look confused, divided, vulnerable and unstable. Voters want to know when opposition come together what will they offer. When they form the government, what will they offer? I would not vote such united opposition because most likely they will have unstable government because they do not have consensus on how to lead the nation.
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 27 Aug 2010 10:06:05 |
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dbaldeh
USA
934 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2010 : 10:27:50
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Turk, there are other options of unity against Jammeh other than a single party. There is simply no one single formula that says this is the way you are supposed to form a union of opposition parties in the Gambia. It all depends on what they can agree on which unfortunately will never happen under this group.
The NADD formula where they will contest under one party NADD and then if they win against Jammeh (highly possible) then the leader will lead for only one five year term.
Off course this is something UDP Opposed. They wanted to lead the coalition and also not serve only one term. It smelled like typical African leadership.
Another option would have been after winning under NADD they could form a government of National unity with all the parties taking active part in governing(easier said than done off course)
Yet there are other options, all the parties can campaign and they can agree to put up only one Presidential candidate say UDP candidate. Once they win they can form a government.
Another option is that all the opposition parties can unite and contest the paliamentary seats and if they win the majority of seats in the house, then the APRC cannot form a goverment just like what happened in the UK. If they form a government a vote of no confidence can remove the President.
So Gambia has a parliamentary system like the UK. The only difference is that our parliament is made up of rubber stamps who dear not stand against the ruling party.
Finally, I honestly think the UDP has more to lose in a lack of coalition in the Gambia. We can all agree that they have more followers (votes) than any of the opposition parties...
So who is closer to winning? UDP if they all loose who is the biggest loser?
Another observation that many are uneasy to speak about is that if the UDP infact commands the majority of followers, why are they afraid to go through primaries in 2006 and even now?
We all know if Darboe goes for primaries with Halifa who would the voters elect?
I think there is a fear and lack of confidence in the leadership of the UDP to go through primaries. If I was in the UDP camp I would have pushed for the primaries because it is certain that Darboe will win in a primary. It is as crystal clear as it can be...
The UDP has the numbers but to be honest they don't have the organization to mobilize those numbers. Even the Gambia Day of action across the globe, UDP supporters turned out the most...
It is a fact, so I would suggest UDP supporters to push for their leadership to agree to an open and fair format of primaries and let them contest. I have no doubt they will win.
One last point... Brother Kobo can you kindly please write in lower case. It is becoming difficult to read your postings in upper case.
Thanks |
Baldeh,
"Be the change you want to see in the world" Ghandi
Visit http://www.gainako.com for your daily news and politics |
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dbaldeh
USA
934 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2010 : 10:32:14
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Brother Kobo can you kindly please write in lower case. It is becoming difficult to read your postings in upper case. Writing in upper case on print appears you are shouting at the top of your lungs.
Also, please lets discuss the issues and leave the personality trait out. Halifa this or that, Darboe this or that is not taking us anywhere.
Besides, we are not making false allegations but rather observations we made in this process. So stop backing these opposition characters at the expense of the Gambia.
Halifa is an honorable person and so is Darboe, Sedia and the rest of them. But they seems to be standing on the way of progress for the Gambia. Simple as that.
We should start to look beyond this breed of politicians. Enough is enough!!!
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Baldeh,
"Be the change you want to see in the world" Ghandi
Visit http://www.gainako.com for your daily news and politics |
Edited by - dbaldeh on 27 Aug 2010 10:33:33 |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2010 : 11:42:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Nyarikangbanna
There is another coalition building exercise going on in Australia at the moment.May be the Gambian opposition should be advised to learn lessons from that too. There is certainly no scarcity of precedents to learn from.You know; UK, Germany, Isreal, Italy, India, Holland, Japan, Senegal, Kenya, Australia etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.
Regards
AS LAWYER DARBOE PARTY LEADER OF UDP APPEARS TO BE A GOOD MENTOR TO YOU AND SOMEONE WHO HAS DEMONSTRATED IN THIS FORUM SOUND COMPETENCE & UNDERSTANDING THE LAW, ESPECIALLY THE CONSTITUTION OF THE GAMBIA; PLEASE HELP US TO UNDERSTAND:-
1. CAN COALITION/ALLIANCE BE CONSTITUTED BEFORE OR AFTER ELECTIONS IN THE GAMBIA
2. WHICH OPTION ( BEFORE OR AFTER) IS FEASIBLE UNDER THE CONSTITUTION OF THE GAMBIA
3. HOW IS COALITION/ALLIANCE APPLICABLE UNDER THE CONSTITUTION OF THE GAMBIA
4. WHAT PRECEDENTS TO LEARN FROM THOSE COUNTRIES MENTIONED AS EXAMPLES
5. WHICH LAW IS OPERATIVE FOR COALITION/ALLIANCE UNDER THE CONSTITUTION OF THE GAMBIA
6. WHAT "LESSONS SHOULD GAMBIAN OPPOSITION PARTIES LEARN"
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toubab1020
12311 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2010 : 13:55:26
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Yes Turk, go on 
quote:
Originally posted by Senegambia
Turk I think you should start a new topic regarding constitutional aspects of a possible coalition thank you very much.
quote:
Originally posted by turk
Here is a question. If parties have some document on agreement on 'coalition' and elected president choose different policies than the policies stated in document, what happens? In Parliamentary system, the coalition partners have a power to bring down the government. In Gambia, do parties have any power to bring down the President? When president is elected, can he or she resign from his or her party? If he or she does, what happens?
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"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2010 : 14:29:24
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quote:
Turk, there are other options of unity against Jammeh other than a single party.
Mr. D
I need to read Constitution first then I make comments. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 27 Aug 2010 14:30:47 |
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shaka
996 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2010 : 15:19:34
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Another option would have been after winning under NADD they could form a government of National unity with all the parties taking active part in governing(easier said than done off course)
Our constitution does not cater for a power sharing government. We do not have a Prime Minister to effect the function of power sharing. All power is vested on the Executive. Parliarment is useless because the executive have the power to dissolve it anytime he so choose to. Get real. The Vice President is simply a ministerial position.
Another option is that all the opposition parties can unite and contest the paliamentary seats and if they win the majority of seats in the house, then the APRC cannot form a goverment just like what happened in the UK. If they form a government a vote of no confidence can remove the President.
Are you are conversant with the constitution in regards to party politics? The Executive does not need a parliamentary majority to rule. All it needs is 51% of total vote cast. Parliament is not an obstacle to the Executive. The Executive can kick out Parliament any time it feels like it.
So Gambia has a parliamentary system like the UK. The only difference is that our parliament is made up of rubber stamps who dear not stand against the ruling party
Absolute falacy.
Another observation that many are uneasy to speak about is that if the UDP infact commands the majority of followers, why are they afraid to go through primaries in 2006 and even now?
We all know if Darboe goes for primaries with Halifa who would the voters elect?
I think there is a fear and lack of confidence in the leadership of the UDP to go through primaries. If I was in the UDP camp I would have pushed for the primaries because it is certain that Darboe will win in a primary. It is as crystal clear as it can be...
The UDP has the numbers but to be honest they don't have the organization to mobilize those numbers. Even the Gambia Day of action across the globe, UDP supporters turned out the most...
It is a fact, so I would suggest UDP supporters to push for their leadership to agree to an open and fair format of primaries and let them contest. I have no doubt they will win.
Last time i checked there is equal representation in NADD so how could you foolishly come to this conclusion. Know what you are talking about before you engage us next time. AND THEY THINK THEY ARE KNOWLEDGABLE POWER BROKERS TO TELL OPPOSITION WHAT AND WHAT NOT TO DO. How could somebody so lacking of the fact wants to be become a self appointed arbitrar. Delusion galore. |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2010 : 16:02:14
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OK without seeking options for 'unity', the first step is to look constitution. So far, many posters have the illusion that Gambia is a parliamentarian system like UK, Canada, Australia, Turkey, Germany. That is not the case. Gambia is more like US and France. In USA, the president can be taken down during impeachment process. See Clinton however, but it ain't easy. I think in USA history only there are a few instances for that. So individual parties do not have any tool to impact in possible coalition i.e. withdraw from government and government lose the majority. Once President elected, it is done. He or She does not have to rely anyone. So, why would a small party support such coalition that does not give them any guarantee.
The best option for unity is the 'single party'. That is the only chance opposition parties have realistic chance and fair format for all of them. Most presidential base systems have two main party, usually left and right.
Some ask me to create CONSTITUTION topic!!!! It looks like, the CONSTITUTION DEBATE absolute necessity to understand what options available for 'unity'. It is like we are seeking political unity solution for U.S.A. talking about U.K. politics. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2010 : 16:10:10
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Here is one option for national assembly. In Turkey, there was a quota in order to get a member elected. Let me explain. For example, Party A get 99 % of vote for a riding but if their vote is less than 10 percent, they can't get that candidate which gets 99 % elected. This rule is to eliminate smaller parties and give chance the first party bigger majority to eliminate unstable coalition government. But based on constitution parties can have work around. How?
Smaller parties come together and participate election under a new party or under one of the parties. But they have strategic nomination process. Here is the process. If Party A is strong in Basse riding, Party B do not have candidate for the Basse riding. And Party B support Party A. Where Party B is strong, Party A supports Party B and Party A do not have candidate in that riding. But they all participate election under one party. How is this format? What do you think?
In other words, UDP for example do not have a candidate in where PDOIS strong, but all parties goes under one party. This may be the formula fair for all parties which reflect their power in different ridings. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 27 Aug 2010 16:12:43 |
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Nyarikangbanna
United Kingdom
1382 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2010 : 16:15:06
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quote:
Originally posted by shaka
Don't you just wish that i dissapear for good so that you and your "glueless" Taliban pal can ram an accidental political party like the UDP down our throats. I've seen so many questions asked of your party here in this forum, why are you Mr Propaganda suddenly tongue tied. Are you that "glueless" of your own party policies. You are shaming your Party Nyamato Daffeh. Sorry to dissapoint but you will be smelling the fart that comes out of my behind for a long time in this forum.quote:
Originally posted by Nyarikangbanna
To the self-style constitutional experts; please pack-up and go away. You have no clue what you are talking about. You are putting off people with substance to participate in this all important debate. You displayed nothing but traits of a complete ignoramus. The readership doesn't deserve to be bombarded with yours nonsensical crap.
I am not asking you to leave the forum entirely. I can't do that because i would otherwise have nothing to laugh about. All am asking is for you to leave that constitutional line of argument because you come across irritatingly numbed whenever you do it. That isn't funny, it is pittiful. That is why no one is entertaining it. Haven't you noticed? Oh I forgot, you are numbed
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I do not oppose unity but I oppose dumb union. |
Edited by - Nyarikangbanna on 27 Aug 2010 16:25:02 |
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shaka
996 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2010 : 16:38:50
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| Knowing the clownish Propagandist-in-chief, you would not need invitation to counter my arguement. It is because the idea well had dried up in UDP-UK hence the deafening silence. It is your main characteristic to go AWOL or hibernate in silence every time you are devoid of ideas. I should know you too well by now Nyamato Daffeh. I miss your page long rebutal essays. The AYATOLLAH must be laughing his head off. He had not had this long break from you. I am beginning to suspect that you are helping yourself to you Taliban pal's satala. C'mon show us the Dutch courage. |
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Nyarikangbanna
United Kingdom
1382 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2010 : 16:55:36
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quote:
Originally posted by shaka
Knowing the clownish Propagandist-in-chief, you would not need invitation to counter my arguement. It is because the idea well had dried up in UDP-UK hence the deafening silence. It is your main characteristic to go AWOL or hibernate in silence every time you are devoid of ideas. I should know you too well by now Nyamato Daffeh. I miss your page long rebutal essays. The AYATOLLAH must be laughing his head off. He had not had this long break from you. I am beginning to suspect that you are helping yourself to you Taliban pal's satala. C'mon show us the Dutch courage.
Ha! ha! ha! This one is a good laugh |
I do not oppose unity but I oppose dumb union. |
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