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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
 Posted - 26 Aug 2010 : 15:10:47
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dbaldeh ANOTHER MIS-REPRESENTATION ON UDP PARTY LED COALITION
"UDP on the other hand sees PDOIS as insignificant when it comes to political constituents and indicates that PDOIS only commands 3% of the electorates according to last election results and therefore, the UDP should lead any coalition in the Gambia."
I AM YET TO SEE ANY EVIDENCE OR SOURCE OF PUBLIC INFORMATION (EITHER CONDITIONALLY OR UNCONDITIONALLY) FROM UDP LEADER LAWYER OUSAINOU DARBOE, ANY CORE UDP EXECUTIVE OR UDP PROPOSING, ADVOCATING, FORMAL ANNOUNCEMENT OR MAKE A DECLARATION TO THAT EFFECT
DID UDP DECLARE THAT THEY SHOULD LEAD ANY COALITION IN THE GAMBIA I MUST HAVE MISSED IT, SO PLEASE PROVIDE YOUR SOURCE OF PUBLIC INFORMATION
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terangba
Egypt
225 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2010 : 15:16:16
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Shaka I respectfully disagree with you; PPP with all its faults was not a dictatorship; you have taken imagination out of your thread. A constitution is supposed to be a living document. The parties can agree to amend the constitution to avoid your fears. Gambians are smart enough to demand term limits and three but separate branches of Government to avoid another dictatorship. We cannot say it cannot be done and keep the status quo, that is not acceptable.
Momodou you are spot on, if UDP will not agree to a primary style of electing a leader then the only patriotic card left to play for minor parties is to copy what the British did during their last election. I am not sure if this is feasible this coming election cycle but I fervently believe a UDP lead coalition can work if Gambians put the interest of the nation first. This is not about making anyone an elite but a way out of our current predicament.
Lack of common senses approach to our collective failures is what is keeping APRC in power. What we all have to remember when we say” My party will never agree to this” is we are surrendering to APRC and as an extension enslaving our people. We are the very ones responsible for your predicament. At this stage we cannot blame APRC we have to look in the mirror and blame your selves.
If we put half of the passion and energy we put in arguing about whose was at fault some donkey years ago into finding a solution we would have come up with ten sensible alternatives.
Any reasonable person will agree that UDP has the upper hand in this battle but the other opposition parties can get their way through negotiation.
If the Conservative Party and the Liberal Democrats in UK can work to maintain dominance and rely upon each other to deliver a working majority in Parliament. Then there is no reason why our opposition parties cannot.
I cannot overemphasize this is it time to move on a start working on solutions. It is high time for the independents to broker an honest deal.
Where are our independent intellectuals who can never be bought or intermediated?
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God gave men dominion over the beasts and not over his fellow men unless they submit of their own free will. - Napoleon |
Edited by - terangba on 26 Aug 2010 15:19:00 |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2010 : 15:22:37
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quote:
Originally posted by turk
... Parties form coalition after the election or before the election as they participate election as united front....
THE GAMBIA CONSTITUTION CATERS FOR "MERGER" BEFORE ANY ELECTIONS! COALITIONS/ALLIANCE ARE APPLICABLE ONLY BEFORE ANY ELECTIONS!
A VERY SERIOUS ENTRAPMENT FOR UDP UNDER NADD; IF GOAL IS FORMING A UNITED NATIONAL FRONT AND NOT TO BE HOODWINK ON DISSOLUTION OF OPPOSITION PARTIES TO JOIN & SUPPORT UDP ONLY
HEY GUYS BACK TO SQUARE ONE |
Edited by - kobo on 26 Aug 2010 15:26:03 |
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shaka
996 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2010 : 15:32:51
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Can you quote me where i mentioned PPP or PPP dictorship?quote:
Originally posted by terangba
Shaka I respectfully disagree with you; PPP with all its faults was not a dictatorship; you have taken imagination out of your thread. A constitution is supposed to be a living document. The parties can agree to amend the constitution to avoid your fears. Gambians are smart enough to demand term limits and three but separate branches of Government to avoid another dictatorship. We cannot say it cannot be done and keep the status quo, that is not acceptable.
.....
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2010 : 15:42:30
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quote:
If the Conservative Party and the Liberal Democrats in UK can work to maintain dominance and rely upon each other to deliver a working majority in Parliament. Then there is no reason why our opposition parties cannot.
Terangba
Question for you? The system in Gambia is totally different. In UK, parliament has the legislative power, also form the government that has executive power. Prime-minister is rely on parliament, the coalition, to stay in power. In Gambia the president has the executive power, the one and the only person, so how will the power be shared in such system? Please enlighten.
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2010 : 15:43:07
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quote:
Originally posted by terangba
Any reasonable person will agree that UDP has the upper hand in this battle but the other opposition parties can get their way through negotiation.
If the Conservative Party and the Liberal Democrats in UK can work to maintain dominance and rely upon each other to deliver a working majority in Parliament. Then there is no reason why our opposition parties cannot.
I cannot overemphasize this is it time to move on a start working on solutions. It is high time for the independents to broker an honest deal.
Where are our independent intellectuals who can never be bought or intermediated?
WE (GAMBIANS) MUST ALL TAKE FULL RESPONSIBILITY FOR CURRENT PREDICAMENT! HAVING THE BASIS FOR A VIABLE OPPOSITION SHOULD NOT BE TRANSLATED THAT UDP IS THE OPPOSITION PARTY MOST PRIVILEGED TO ENJOY IT TO THE DEMISE OF OTHER OPPOSITION PARTIES
THEREFORE POINT HIGHLIGHTED RED IS A FALSE PREMISE
THE ONLY REASONABLE PROPOSAL IS A UNITED NATIONAL FRONT UNDER ONE UMBRELLA IN LINE WITH NADD'S MOU! ISN'T IT |
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shaka
996 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2010 : 15:43:59
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Turk, i guess we will have to borrow Momodou's signature...."A clear concience fears no accusation."quote:
Originally posted by turk
turk: shaka - great input. I might as well....
Janko to shaka: Be mindful not to fry all fish given to you by turk, you may end up frying ...
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Nyarikangbanna
United Kingdom
1382 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2010 : 15:53:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Momodou
Demba,
I would suggest other parties to demand agreements on the following:
- Constitutional reforms; making presidential term limits to two
- Local Government reform (greater autonomy)
- The national economy (how to re-invest the revenue generated by institutions such as the NRA, GPA, SSHFC etc).
- Education reform
- The Energy sector
- Agriculture
- Security forces
- The Judiciary & the rule of law
- International relations etc...
The Opposition should also think beyond the presidential elections because national assembly elections are as important.
Please note that I speak for myself and not for any party or organisation.
I entirey agree with these suggestions. Infact, these are some of the things UDP aspires to deliver to the Gambian people if given the mandate to govern. So I see no problem here at least from a UDP perspective.
Regards |
I do not oppose unity but I oppose dumb union. |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2010 : 16:13:32
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quote:
I entirey agree with these suggestions. Infact, these are some of the things UDP aspires to deliver to the Gambian people if given the mandate to govern. So I see no problem here at least from a UDP perspective.
Lol. This dude is funny. Agree on what? First of all these are the areas a party is obliged to deliver. How is the agreement put on the legal framework without a party entity? Any document between parties does not mean anything when election is completed. Correct me if I am wrong on if there is anything in constitution supporting that? If a president is elected that has executive power on the items Momodou listed, why would the president would follow an agreement that has no constitutional base? The agreement would not have any more value than 'gentlemen agreement' and we know there is no such thing in politics. Without a single party like NADD, there is no way multiple opposition parties can be led by one party. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 26 Aug 2010 16:16:02 |
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Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2010 : 16:27:18
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Terangba, your points are taken
It is impossible to sow ones seeds on unfertile land and expect a good harvest.
It is very interesting that there is no readiness for exploring or discussing any other form of cooperation or coalition. Is it because there is nothing in place to support any form of coalition, or is it because the individual parties need to get their acts together in a way that would make any form of coalition possible and conducive. Let’s say all forms of coalition require a kind of negotiation. All parties in a negotiation have to have something with them to the table. Apart from the theoretical framework which has generated so much discord there is no other plan in place to address the points Momodou raised in his post.
It is a long way before the opposition is taken seriously by the electorate. Hence, removing APRC as an only objective and as a unifying factor of the opposition is not tangible as long as there are no viable plans for Post-APRC. Momodou mentioned some of the key points necessary for any kind of coalition or form of cooperation between political parties.
“To think that … handing office to a different leadership with the same authoritarian powers … will change everything for the better overnight, amounts to living in fools paradise …” I agree with Shaka on this but disagree that this scenario is only true with a UDP led coalition.
turk, the good news is you know the difference between "Sociology" and "Socialism"  ...
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Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
Edited by - Janko on 26 Aug 2010 21:24:57 |
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terangba
Egypt
225 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2010 : 16:42:10
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Shaka, the intent of that statement was not to quote you but to remind readers we had a democratic Government in the recent past.
Kobo, I am praying for the day a modern progressive party that operates in an environment where politician know that the people have the power, where the government derives its power from the consent of the governed, where the people will vote for the most qualified regardless of ethnic affiliation. When we spoke in 2008 we were in agreement about how broken our system is. Trust me I know where both You and Shaka are coming from. At the moment we do not have such a party or a system, due to a systemic failure of our education system most Gambians are not sophisticated as you and I.
At the moment I honestly believe this is the easiest fix to our problems.
Might be I am too naive but if we can survive the APRC we can move on to form a better country. The biggest obstacle we have is this impasse.
It is crystal clear that you do not agree with me. What I want you to do is please explain to me how you will solve this impasse. UDP will not relinquish the leadership role and cannot win on its own; the other parties do not have the support to take on APRC.
UDP does not want to revisit the MOU. How we can solve this impasse is what I am looking for. |
God gave men dominion over the beasts and not over his fellow men unless they submit of their own free will. - Napoleon |
Edited by - terangba on 26 Aug 2010 16:47:14 |
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terangba
Egypt
225 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2010 : 16:49:19
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| Turk I will respond at a later time. |
God gave men dominion over the beasts and not over his fellow men unless they submit of their own free will. - Napoleon |
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Nyarikangbanna
United Kingdom
1382 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2010 : 19:23:42
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quote:
Originally posted by shaka
Party-led coalitition. Are you kidding me? You might as well suggest a diaspora-led fundraising to buy weapons to sponsor an arms insurgency to topple The Sheikh's government or invest in the disgruntled section of the military to help carry out this task. It is one and the same thing. Highjack our feeble democracy and hand it over to another group of the political divide, clasp your hand in prayer and hope they will be better than APRC government. This is insane. It just beats the imagination to think that people who suffered over a decade of strife and tribulation under one dictatorship would advocate for another autocracy simply because there is a shift in leadership. To think that getting rid of Jammeh and handing office to a different leadership with the same authoritarian powers vested on The Sheikh will change everything for the better overnight, amounts to living in fools paradise. A party-led coalition ushered into office by highjacking our democracy does not automatically change anything, certainly not the constitution it inherited. Any change in such a 'close your eyes and pray, hoping that when you open them the proverbial paradise awaits you' scenario is subject to the whims and caprices of the leading party. How, what, when or where change aught to be effected becomes just a mere wish for the led. Get real! There is no provision in the present constitution that stipulates that a break-up of any such coalition will dissolve parliament or nullify government. There is not is even a provision for a second round of voting in the event that no party wields the majority vote for goddamn sake. What planet are you people living in. Why would you want to sleep walk into autocracy yet again? A party-led led coalition in a system without a second round of voting is a friggin non starter. And don't tell me a UDP-led coalition will definitely be better than the APRC government because they are wishy-washy do-gooders. I'd rather stick with the devil i know. How many of you have honestly predicted that tryanny would be unleashed on the Gambian people by "the soldiers with a difference" from the onset of the July 22 coup d'etat? Those who have atleast publicly and steadfastly forewarned about a potential heavy handed dictatorship in the wake of the AFPRC military coup are yet again warning against a repeat of the same mistake. And i stand side by side with such visionaries. Once shy twice a fool.
I read the above three times and still can't get a thing out of it. May be I need to go back to Gambia High School and learn english again. No! no! no! I know english. The guy is just talking jabbies. That's all it is.
Don't meant to interrupt, guys. Please continue. It is nice to see ideas floating.
Regards |
I do not oppose unity but I oppose dumb union. |
Edited by - Nyarikangbanna on 26 Aug 2010 19:27:04 |
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Nyarikangbanna
United Kingdom
1382 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2010 : 19:32:21
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quote:
Originally posted by terangba
Shaka I respectfully disagree with you; PPP with all its faults was not a dictatorship; you have taken imagination out of your thread. A constitution is supposed to be a living document. The parties can agree to amend the constitution to avoid your fears. Gambians are smart enough to demand term limits and three but separate branches of Government to avoid another dictatorship. We cannot say it cannot be done and keep the status quo, that is not acceptable.
Momodou you are spot on, if UDP will not agree to a primary style of electing a leader then the only patriotic card left to play for minor parties is to copy what the British did during their last election. I am not sure if this is feasible this coming election cycle but I fervently believe a UDP lead coalition can work if Gambians put the interest of the nation first. This is not about making anyone an elite but a way out of our current predicament.
Lack of common senses approach to our collective failures is what is keeping APRC in power. What we all have to remember when we say” My party will never agree to this” is we are surrendering to APRC and as an extension enslaving our people. We are the very ones responsible for your predicament. At this stage we cannot blame APRC we have to look in the mirror and blame your selves.
If we put half of the passion and energy we put in arguing about whose was at fault some donkey years ago into finding a solution we would have come up with ten sensible alternatives.
Any reasonable person will agree that UDP has the upper hand in this battle but the other opposition parties can get their way through negotiation.
If the Conservative Party and the Liberal Democrats in UK can work to maintain dominance and rely upon each other to deliver a working majority in Parliament. Then there is no reason why our opposition parties cannot.
I cannot overemphasize this is it time to move on a start working on solutions. It is high time for the independents to broker an honest deal.
Where are our independent intellectuals who can never be bought or intermediated?
There is another coalition building exercise going on in Australia at the moment. May be the Gambian opposition should be advised to learn lessons from that too. There is certainly no scarcity of precedents to learn from. You know; UK, Germany, Isreal, Italy, India, Holland, Japan, Senegal, Kenya, Australia etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.
Regards
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I do not oppose unity but I oppose dumb union. |
Edited by - Nyarikangbanna on 26 Aug 2010 19:40:22 |
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toubab1020
12311 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2010 : 19:53:17
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Sorry, I cannot really see TWO leaders in Gambian politics,there will be never ending arguements about who has the greatest power,add in that any leaders may come from different tribes, an absolute mess would result therefore NO creditable administration, a failure. |
"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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