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MeMe
United Kingdom
541 Posts |
 Posted - 06 Aug 2010 : 11:20:58
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Apologies for this being in Dutch but I'm sure the cartoons speak for themselves! Now, all those who had sooooooooooooo much to say about the Danish "anti-muslim" cartoons, please feel free to show your horror for this total lack of respect from the (quote) Iranian cultural organisation who sponsor the website posting these cartoons.
I challenge you all to prove me wrong because unfortunately I don't think there is much compassion on this board for humans in general! Go on ... it would make not just my day but my year!!! 
http://www.ad.nl/ad/nl/1000/Nieuws/article/detail/503130/2010/08/05/Holocaustwebsite-Iran-zorgt-voor-ophef.dhtml
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It is better to die standing than to live on your knees - Ernesto Guevara de la Serna |
Edited by - MeMe on 06 Aug 2010 13:32:47 |
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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2010 : 11:35:33
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terrible meme, it is just like the Dutch racist politician. A competition to be nasty it seems. |
Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2010 : 14:07:32
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Well, I feel very sorry for holocaust and those who were massacred by the German Government forces. And I condemned the fascism and genocide committed against Jews in the name of white supremacy, Christian fanaticism and nationalism in Europe. But when you look at Israel now, why do Palestinians have to be suffering because of the crimes committed by Europeans? I mean crime happened in Europe, crime committed by a European nation. But why the punishment is happening in Middle East and Palestinians are being punished who have nothing to do with the holocaust?
My question to you, meme.
I mean, no question, I found these cartoon to be disrespectful for those who were killed by Germans during holocaust. And I found it disrespectful those who draw these cartoons or the danish cartoons. But this is political discussion. And we have freedom of speech and expression. You have right to protest these cartoons. And Muslim have right to protest danish cartoon. What I want to point out the legal discussion that while we have freedom of expression and why do we have a law in some European countries that denying of holocaust a crime? I mean, personally, i think you agree with me that we condemn the tragedy, but how can you force people to believe an historical event by the law?
Looking forward to your response.
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 06 Aug 2010 21:33:40 |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2010 : 14:11:36
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You are questioning compassion on this board but how come you did not post anything on
http://www.gambia.dk/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9523
and
http://www.gambia.dk/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9546
What do you expect Gambians who have nothing to do with murdering Jews by Europeans and making fun of the holocaust by Iran to do about this. Do you expect Gambians to condemn Europeans for the crime they committed, and protest Iran to trying scoring political point against Israel?
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 06 Aug 2010 15:15:17 |
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MeMe
United Kingdom
541 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2010 : 11:30:53
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Going to take it one bit at a time to reply to this post ....
"And I condemned the fascism and genocide committed against Jews in the name of white supremacy, Christian fanaticism and nationalism in Europe."
I think you've used the wrong adjective here, Turk! It was Aryan supremacy that was peddled by the Nazis - Freudian slip  - who were definitely not Christians!
Aryan - former name given to a people who were said to speak an archaic Indo-European language and who were thought to have settled in prehistoric times in ancient Iran and the northern Indian subcontinent. The theory of an “Aryan race” appeared in the mid-19th century and remained prevalent until the mid-20th century. According to the hypothesis, these probably light-skinned Aryans were the group who invaded and conquered ancient India from the north and whose literature, religion, and modes of social organization subsequently shaped the course of Indian culture, particularly the Vedic religion that informed and was eventually superseded by Hinduism.
Nazi theorist Alfred Rosenberg claimed that Christianity was inappropriate to the warrior Aryan master race and thus supported a melange of aspects of Hindu Vedic and Zoroastrian teachings (both of these religions having been organized by Aryans), along with pre-Christian European Odinistic paganism, which he also considered to be distinctively Aryan in character.
(source Encyclopaedia Britannica)
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It is better to die standing than to live on your knees - Ernesto Guevara de la Serna |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2010 : 14:54:52
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So, seem you are an expert on this. Enlighten us why holocaust happened? Who did it? Where did it happen? Let me help you. Pick answer below so our discussion will progress.
Holocaust was done by the group of people belonging to
a - Native Americans
b - East Asians
c - Africans
d - Polynesians
e - Middle Eastern
f - Aliens
g - Europeans
Which religion has a historical problem with the Jews in ancient historical context
a - Buddhism
b - Christianity
c - Hinduism
d - Atheism
e - Islam
f - Shaman-ism
g - Animism
Where did holocaust happened?
a - South Asia
b - Africa
c - Middle East
d - Oceania
e - Europe
f - South America
quote:
White supremacy is the belief, and promotion of the belief, that white people are superior to people of other racial backgrounds. The term is sometimes used specifically to describe a political ideology that advocates the social and political dominance by whites.[1] White supremacy, as with racial supremacism in general, is rooted in ethnocentrismand a desire for hegemony. White supremacy has frequently resulted in anti-black and antisemitic violence. Different forms of white supremacy have different conceptions of who is considered white, and not all white supremacist organizations agree on who is their greatest enemy.
White supremacist groups can be found in most countries and regions with a significant white population, including North America, Europe, Australia, New Zealand, South Africaand Latin America. The militant approach taken by white supremacist groups has caused them to be watched closely by law enforcement officials. Some European countries have laws forbidding hate speech, as well as other laws that ban or restrict some white supremacist organizations.
Antisemitism (also spelled anti-semitism or anti-Semitism) is prejudice against or hostility towards Jews, often rooted in hatred of their ethnic background, culture, and/orreligion. In its extreme form, it "attributes to the Jews an exceptional position among all other civilizations, defames them as an inferior group and denies their being part of the nation[s]" in which they reside. A person who practices antisemitism is called an "antisemite."
Antisemitism may be manifested in many ways, ranging from individual expressions of hatred and discrimination against individual Jews to organized violent attacks by mobs or even state police or military attacks on entire Jewish communities. Extreme instances of persecution include the First Crusade of 1096, the expulsion from England in 1290, theSpanish Inquisition, the expulsion from Spain in 1492, the expulsion from Portugal in 1497, various pogroms, the Dreyfus Affair, and perhaps the most infamous, the Holocaustunder Adolf Hitler's Nazi Germany.
While the term's etymology might suggest that antisemitism is directed against all Semitic peoples, the term was coined in the late 19th century in Germany as a more scientific-sounding term for Judenhass ("Jew-hatred"), and that has been its normal use since then.
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 07 Aug 2010 16:06:10 |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2010 : 15:14:48
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Wrong adjective. Oh I am sorry. I apologize, I thought holocaust is done by some Europeans who have some superiority complex and hated Jews and since Jesus was killed by Jews, it was Christianity that has the mother of the ideologies for antisemitism. So if it was not White Supremacy/Radical Christianity, who was it?
I just want to identify
Who did holocaust?
Based on what ideology?
Where did it happen?
What was the motivation?
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 07 Aug 2010 15:21:14 |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2010 : 19:11:07
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Holocoust is unfortunately abused. First of all, it is unfair to make it a crime to deny holocoust. Jews can (already did) Germany for its crimes and Germany had paid the price. Basically, whatever happened in the history, one can object and that is a crime.
OK, now let us discuss the cartoons. Did you see the cartoons? What is exactly you are opposing in the cartoon content?
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2010 : 23:02:54
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The holocaust was by Germans who were anti other groups of people because of difference.
There is NO justification. |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2010 : 00:26:39
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| Gambia, yes it was executed by Germans and its ideology is widely supported. Don't you think, there are still similar ideologies exist in even UK? When I was working in Australia especially and less in UK I have seen locals openly talking about the support of white supremacy. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 08 Aug 2010 00:28:05 |
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MeMe
United Kingdom
541 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2010 : 14:38:44
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quote:
Originally posted by turk
Wrong adjective. Oh I am sorry. I apologize, I thought holocaust is done by some Europeans who have some superiority complex and hated Jews and since Jesus was killed by Jews, it was Christianity that has the mother of the ideologies for antisemitism. So if it was not White Supremacy/Radical Christianity, who was it?I just want to identify
Who did holocaust?
Based on what ideology?
Where did it happen?
What was the motivation?
Errrr, hello ... did I not just tell you that in my posting above |
It is better to die standing than to live on your knees - Ernesto Guevara de la Serna |
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MeMe
United Kingdom
541 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2010 : 15:08:56
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quote:
Originally posted by turk
Gambia, yes it was executed by Germans and its ideology is widely supported. Don't you think, there are still similar ideologies exist in even UK? When I was working in Australia especially and less in UK I have seen locals openly talking about the support of white supremacy.
Turk, is it too difficult for you to understand the difference between the Hitler's vision for a Master Race of Aryans and your continued peddling of "white supremacy" Are you now also trying to tell us that the only people to die in the camps were black and/or Jewish??
Of the 11 million people killed during the Holocaust, six million were Polish citizens. Three million were Polish Jews and another three million were Polish Christians and Catholics. To quote Heinrich Himmler, "All Poles will disappear from the world.... It is essential that the great German people should consider it as its major task to destroy all Poles."
(Hello, Turk, does Himmler (unlike you!) specifically mention colour and/or religion?)
Most of the remaining mortal victims were from other countries including Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Ukraine, Russia, the Netherlands, France and even Germany.
Every European country, even Germany, had those who did not believe in the Nazi ideology and who were willing to die for their beliefs. Perhaps no other group stood so firmly in their beliefs as the Jehovah Witnesses. Hitler felt particularly threatened by this strong group of Christians because they, from the very beginning, refused to recognize any God other than Jehovah. When asked to sign documents of loyalty to the Nazi ideology, they refused. Jehovah Witnesses were forced to wear purple armbands and thousands were imprisoned as "dangerous" traitors because they refused to take a pledge of loyalty to the Third Reich.
Like the Jews, the Rom Gypsies were chosen for total annihilation just because of their race. Even though Jews are defined by religion, Hitler saw the Jewish people as a race that he believed needed to be completely annihilated. Like the Jews, the Rom Gypsies also were a nomadic people that were persecuted throughout history. Both groups were denied certain privileges in many European countries. The Germans believed both the Jews and the Gypsies were racially inferior and degenerate and therefore worthless. Like the Jews, the Gypsies were also moved into special areas set up by the Nazis. Half a million Gypsies, almost the entire Eastern European Gypsy population, was wiped out during the Holocaust.
Hitler wanted not only to conquer all of Europe, but Hitler also wanted to create a new religion and to replace Jesus Christ as a person to be worshipped. Hitler expected his followers to worship the Nazi ideology. Since Catholic priests and Christian pastors were often influential leaders in their community, they were sought out by the Nazis very early. Thousands of Catholic priests and Christian pastors were forced into concentration camps. A special barracks was set up at Dachau, the camp near Munich, Germany, for clergymen. A few survived; some were executed, but most were allowed to die slowly of starvation or disease.
Because Hitler's plan for a great Master Race had no room for any homosexuals, many males from all nations, including Germany, were persecuted, tortured and executed. Hitler even searched his own men and found suspected homosexuals that were sent to concentration camps wearing their S.S. uniforms and medals. The homosexual inmates were forced to wear pink triangles on their clothes so they could be easily recognized and further humiliated inside the camps. Between 5,000 to 15,000 homosexuals died in concentration camps during the Holocaust.
The Nazis decided that it was a waste of time and money to support disabled people. During Hitler's "cleansing program", thousands of people with various disabilities were deemed useless and simply put to death.
So, if as you've stated above you "thought holocaust is done by some Europeans who have some superiority complex and hated Jews" then I suggest you might want to revisit the history books but more to the point, your own obvious religious and racial issues.
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It is better to die standing than to live on your knees - Ernesto Guevara de la Serna |
Edited by - MeMe on 09 Aug 2010 15:11:03 |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2010 : 15:10:37
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Good. You have confirmed that. Now we can move forward. Holocaust and antisemitism are European/Christian concept as you also confirmed that. Since the last crime committed against Jews in Europe, how does this issue come to middle east and how does Iran involve with it? Iran unhappiness with holocaust is that:
- The crime committed in Europe but seem like middle eastern is being punished for this crime they are not part of it. What do you think about this?
- Israel's use of holocaust has been always good excuse to advance their territory in Palestine, it is unfair to Middle Eastern. That is not their problem.
- And how do you explain that cartoon by danish has no criminal legal process in the name of the 'freedom of expression' but at the same time, denying the historical event is a punishable crime and where is the 'freedom of expression principle?
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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MeMe
United Kingdom
541 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2010 : 15:15:26
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quote:
Originally posted by turk
Good. You have confirmed that. Now we can move forward. Holocaust and antisemitism are European/Christian concept as you also confirmed that. Since the last crime committed against Jews in Europe, how does this issue come to middle east and how does Iran involve with it? Iran unhappiness with holocaust is that:
- The crime committed in Europe but seem like middle eastern is being punished for this crime they are not part of it. What do you think about this?
- Israel's use of holocaust has been always good excuse to advance their territory in Palestine, it is unfair to Middle Eastern. That is not their problem.
- And how do you explain that cartoon by danish has no criminal legal process in the name of the 'freedom of expression' but at the same time, denying the historical event is a punishable crime and where is the 'freedom of expression principle?
Hmmm, don't think you have moved on as you're still not reading properly, Turk ... too bad  |
It is better to die standing than to live on your knees - Ernesto Guevara de la Serna |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2010 : 15:20:23
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I have recognize that I can’t generalize that all Europeans should not be held responsible for the crimes committed by some group in Europe. At least I am one of them. And I did not support it. You wasted your time about your long post something I am not interested in discussing. I already condemned the crime. What I am focusing is highlighted on my previous posting. How this crime committed in Europe does came to Middle east and how Iran and other middle eastern involve? You have well demonstrated that holocaust is done by a group of freaks in Europe, I want to discuss about other part of your initial post, Middle Eastern involvement.
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2010 : 15:22:38
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| I am reading properly, you are still refusing to recognize the point I am making. The point is simple. Holocaust happened in Europe by Europeans/Christians. I am giving you specific geographic location and specific religion. How did it became issue of Middle East/Islam? Why does Iran published these cartoons? What was the motivation behind? |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 09 Aug 2010 15:25:21 |
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