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MeMe
United Kingdom
541 Posts |
 Posted - 09 Aug 2010 : 15:25:35
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quote:
Originally posted by turk
I have recognize that I can’t generalize that all Europeans should not be held responsible for the crimes committed by some group in Europe. At least I am one of them. And I did not support it. You wasted your time about your long post something I am not interested in discussing. I already condemned the crime. What I am focusing is highlighted on my previous posting. How this crime committed in Europe does came to Middle east and how Iran and other middle eastern involve? You have well demonstrated that holocaust is done by a group of freaks in Europe, I want to discuss about other part of your initial post, Middle Eastern involvement.
And I wanted to discuss (with you) your fascination for the term white supremacy and its link (in your mind) to Christianity ... but obviously you don't .... ah well .... |
It is better to die standing than to live on your knees - Ernesto Guevara de la Serna |
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MeMe
United Kingdom
541 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2010 : 15:29:36
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quote:
Originally posted by turk
I am reading properly, you are still refusing to recognize the point I am making. The point is simple. Holocaust happened in Europe by Europeans/Christians. I am giving you specific geographic location and specific religion. How did it became issue of Middle East/Islam? Why does Iran published these cartoons? What was the motivation behind?
I rest my case .... reading and comprehension defo not your forte .... |
It is better to die standing than to live on your knees - Ernesto Guevara de la Serna |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2010 : 15:30:03
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| okeee. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2010 : 15:34:31
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quote:
ow, all those who had sooooooooooooo much to say about the Danish "anti-muslim" cartoons, please feel free to show your horror for this total lack of respect from the (quote) Iranian cultural organisation who sponsor the website posting these cartoons.
The topic is Iranian cartoons about holocaust and I am discussing how holocaust end up in Iran's cartoon. Do you want to stick to your initial topic? |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2010 : 15:42:50
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You and I know that you don't want to discuss the point I am making, because you already know and shame that Europe has historical guilt that
- Christian ideology 'chosen people, promise land' is the reason why the United Kingdom created Israel in the middle of Middle East with the crusader agenda.
And the middle eastern people are being punished something they are not responsible. Your idealism or compassion is only limited to you. You feel good about yourself about your crime when you talk about holocaust. You wanted to cover your own mess in Europe and created another mess in Middle east. What about others? Palestinians? Don't they deserve your so-called compassion?
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 09 Aug 2010 15:48:40 |
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MeMe
United Kingdom
541 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2010 : 16:46:21
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quote:
Originally posted by turk
You and I know that you don't want to discuss the point I am making, because you already know and shame that Europe has historical guilt that
- Christian ideology 'chosen people, promise land' is the reason why the United Kingdom created Israel in the middle of Middle East with the crusader agenda.
And the middle eastern people are being punished something they are not responsible. Your idealism or compassion is only limited to you. You feel good about yourself about your crime when you talk about holocaust. You wanted to cover your own mess in Europe and created another mess in Middle east. What about others? Palestinians? Don't they deserve your so-called compassion?
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You and I know that you don't want to discuss the point I am making, because you already know that you can't move past your white = christianity issue, Turk.
Do tell who you mean by "Your idealism or compassion is only limited to you" - would that be white Christians perhaps? Europeans? Women? Jews? Rastafarians? Aliens? (To quote your earlier post  )
"On the same day, the Lord made a covenant with Abraham, saying: “To your descendants I have given this land; from the river of Egypt to the great river, the River Euphrates’” (Genesis 15:18)
I could be wrong here but I seem to remember from history classes that Islam, Christianity and Judaism didn't splinter off until after the time of Abraham ....
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It is better to die standing than to live on your knees - Ernesto Guevara de la Serna |
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toubab1020
12314 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2010 : 16:57:21
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Turk ,I have found this,Note the contents of the first paragraph.
http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~wldciv/world_civ_reader/world_civ_reader_2/balfour.html
The Balfour Declaration (1917)
The British Foreign Secretary, Arthur James Balfour, wrote to Jewish leader Lord Rothshild, to assure him that his government supported the ideal of providing a homeland for the Jews. The British hoped thereby to win more Jewish support for the Allies in the First World War. The "Balfour Declaration" became the basis for international support for the founding of the modern state of Israel. The letter was published a week later in The Times of London as reproduced here.
Foreign Office
November 2nd, 1917
Dear Lord Rothschild:
I have much pleasure in conveying to you. on behalf of His Majesty's
Government, the following declaration of sympathy with Jewish Zionist aspirations which has been submitted to, and approved by, the Cabinet:
His Majesty's Government view with favor the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavors to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.
I should be grateful if you would bring this declaration to the knowledge
of the Zionist Federation.
Yours,
Arthur James Balfour
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is an excerpt from Reading About the World, Volume 2, edited by Paul Brians, Mary Gallwey, Douglas Hughes, Azfar Hussain, Richard Law, Michael Myers, Michael Neville, Roger Schlesinger, Alice Spitzer, and Susan Swan and published by Harcourt Brace Custom Books.
The reader was created for use in the World Civilization course at Washington State University, but material on this page may be used for educational purposes by permission of the editor-in-chief:
Paul Brians
Department of English
Washington State University
Pullman 99164-5020
This is just a sample of Reading About the World, Volume 2.
Reading About the World is now out of print. You can search for used copies using the following information:Paul Brians, et al. Reading About the World, Vol. 1, 3rd edition, Harcourt Brace College Publishing: ISBN 0-15-567425-0 or Paul Brians, et al. Reading About the World, Vol. 2, 3rd edition, Harcourt Brace College Publishing: ISBN 0-15-512826-4.
Try Chambal:
http://www.chambal.com/csin/9780155674257/ (vol. 1)
http://www.chambal.com/csin/9780155128262/ (vol. 2)
This page has been accessed times since December 18, 1998.
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"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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Edited by - toubab1020 on 09 Aug 2010 17:06:13 |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2010 : 17:27:56
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Holocaust
Where: Europe
Who: Europeans
Israel: Middle East
Who: Middle Eastern
I can't pas (you can't move past your white = christianity issue, Turk.) because it is related to the discussion. You need to distinguish where and who did the holocaust and now why/how Iran became anti-semitic.
I want to establish the connection how this happened.
quote:
"On the same day, the Lord made a covenant with Abraham, saying: “To your descendants I have given this land; from the river of Egypt to the great river, the River Euphrates’” (Genesis 15:18)
Why are you denying that there is a link of Christianity to the topic? The motivation of creating the state of Israel is ordered in the Christianity. It is a crusade order. Christian rulers say 'Jews are chosen people and the land of Jarussalem is promised land.' I am not Christian, why do I have to follow that. There is a link of Christianity to this discussion. Do not ignore it. To Christians th god has ordered the 'promise land' for 'chosen people' and that is why Mr. Balfour motivated to create the land in Israel. So the creation of Israel was based on Christian religion divine order. This is linked to the topic. Your compassion is limited in this topic to Jews, because, at the benefit of Jews, you are ignoring the fact that Palestine is paying the price for something they have no guilt which is holocaust. I understand you are compassionate about Jews, that is good, but your compassion have impact on your objectivity here and I am trying to expose this. And you are failing to recognize that. The frustration of Middle eastern are because of your ignoring them that you have a selective compassion about holocaust but you are failing to recognize that you are victimizing Palestinians. You open the discussion, I contribute but you want to set up the agenda. It does not work like that. You need to address my points/concerns. So far you did not do that. I want to discuss this but you are not addressing the points I am making. Sorry, you got to interact here. It is not only what is important to you. Discussion with you is like having a dialog with a deaf person.
For 'white' you are note white supremacist but some people are. Have you heard KKK? What is their symbol? Who is their idol? Hitler.
If i don't believe verses of Genesis you provided, what happens? Muslim does not think the verses you provided as authentic, so what happens now? |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 09 Aug 2010 18:18:52 |
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toubab1020
12314 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2010 : 18:17:42
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TURK, this topic is one surley for scholars who wish to ponder the inponderable in order to further their understanding of their religion and other religions,its not one for ordinary folks (I take it you are an ordinary person and not a scholar ) to have a general discussion at the village pump as it were."so what happens now?" you write,by me ? nothing I am done,"conflict" discussion is not my bag  ,thanks. |
"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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Edited by - toubab1020 on 09 Aug 2010 18:18:49 |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2010 : 20:54:57
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Not really. We can discuss. Obviously meme is failing to see the following arguments.
1. Holocaust is originated in Europe based on the religion of Christianity and Racism. If we have to fight against that, we have to know why holocaust happened in Europe. But the reason holocaust happened in Europe is not necessarily same reason for why the denial happening in Iran.
2. Europe's Jewish issue is exported to Middle East by United Kingdom by creating Israel under its colony Palestine.
3. People demonstrate inconsistency while they defend the freedom of expression on cartoons published in Denmark while they ignore the principle of freedom of expression when it comes to question the historical event of Holocaust which denying is even a crime in some countries. This inconsistency is unfair. One of the reason Iran chose the cartoon may be to show the inconsistency. If one values freedom of expression, let others to question holocaust. Or if one sensitive and 'compassion' for others and stand up against bigotry, then you need to stand up against the holocaust and at the same time I expect others standing up against prejudiced against Muslims in cartoon example. You see the different standards applied for freedom of expression and people are selective on whom to give compassion.
4. People claim having compassion for the holocaust do not have the same standards of Palestine, just because it may be that they are basically Muslims who don't deserve compassion because some people dislike them.
5. Middle Easterners conflict with Jews is very different from the conflict in Europe which is based on Christianity and Racism. Jews are semitic like most middle easterners, their conflict with Jews due to the creation of Israel which happened in 1948 by the UK at the expense of Palestinians. That is a significant difference that meme is not capable to understand because her biases.
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 09 Aug 2010 21:24:20 |
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toubab1020
12314 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2010 : 21:22:41
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| Not me Turk sorry, ignorant on this subject, I am not a schlor! |
"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2010 : 21:24:41
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| Then do not post. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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toubab1020
12314 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2010 : 21:26:08
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I sure won't, thanks for your friendly advice  |
"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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Edited by - toubab1020 on 09 Aug 2010 21:26:33 |
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MeMe
United Kingdom
541 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2010 : 10:55:27
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quote:
Originally posted by toubab1020
I sure won't, thanks for your friendly advice
Turk should follow his own advice but he never does so neither should you!
He likes to try and steer any/all discussion to which ever point he is hoping to make which doesn't make for an interesting discussion but hey, ho ... plus he's forever making assumptions about posters (and their beliefs/loyalties/etc) which can cloud his replies (don't think he's heard of the saying 'to assume makes an ass of u and me') ... ah well, we all have our crosses to bear ... |
It is better to die standing than to live on your knees - Ernesto Guevara de la Serna |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2010 : 11:10:07
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| Thanks for the compliments about turk. But do you want to debate on turk or your original topic? |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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