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bamba
Sweden
401 Posts |
 Posted - 10 May 2006 : 13:04:18
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Kisley, u dont still understand what I have said/written. At times certain points are easily driven home to kids than to adults. Can i explain myself one more time(many more of the same explanation to come, am sure)? All will never mean "some" or "most"; some or most will never mean all.
The quote says most toubabs and not all toubabs, ok? |
Bamba |
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kisley
United Kingdom
214 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2006 : 13:14:17
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| I have never said that "most" means "all", most means the "majority" - and sir I object to the use of that term, because you do not know MOST toubabs. |
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kisley
United Kingdom
214 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2006 : 13:32:50
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quote:
According to Bamba the majority of people who go to Gambia(are my husband and I included) are usually paedophilles, unhappy at home, and are helping gambians because of what they can get out of it. - really?
Would you like to read it again |
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kisley
United Kingdom
214 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2006 : 13:44:44
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| Oh bamba, seeing that you quoted me some statistics, Pls can I have statistics that back up your claims about the majority of toubabs who go to gambia. Extrodinary claims, require extrodinary evidence. |
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serenata
Germany
1400 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2006 : 15:24:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Babylon
I personally do not believe in helping one individual or one family in a poor country. I think that can even cause problems and envy in a village if one family is "lucky" to get help and the other families are left without help. Helping an individual is not a long term soultion, it´s not fair to the others.
Sorry if I sound pessimistic but you can never change a country to the better by just helping one person. There has to be a political change in Africa and that is none of our westerners business.
I am a strong believer in the old Chinese proverb: "Give a man a fish and you´ll feed him today, theach him how to fish and you´ll feed him forever." Making people dependent on your help can even be dangerous.
I fully agree with these words. Except for the statement that political change in Africa is none of our business.
Like it or not, it is. Western governments support/ed many African dictators and corrupt regimes; sometimes they even install them indirectly. I scratch your back, and you scratch my back. Some dictators in Africa act under the protection of industrialized nations, and in return we are getting access to African (or other '3rd World') resources, to strategically important regions, etc. Under the blessing shine of money there is no racial discrimination, no looking down at each other. A heart-warming coalition of blacks and whites; both races working together in perfect harmony....  |
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kisley
United Kingdom
214 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2006 : 15:46:16
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| yes you are right serenta about western governments supporting African dictators. I have been reading amnesty international reports,(very scary) and its not just happening in Africa. Babylon makes a good point and i wish we could have a healthy debate. But a certain person on this site dosent want that - they just want arguments and division - and unfortunatly i have fallen into this gentlmans little trap. |
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kisley
United Kingdom
214 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2006 : 15:52:48
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Here is one of my favourite quotes
“When the missionaries came to Africa they had the Bible and we had the land. They said, 'Let us pray.' We closed our eyes. When we opened them we had the Bible and they had the land.”
Bishop Desmond Tutu (nobel peace prize winner)
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jambo
3300 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2006 : 15:57:55
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Kisley, i like that saying and read it many times. but do you not think that now Africa should not be asking the ancestors of the missionaries for help.
It is not only western governments, look t some of the Sleeping dragon contries. Japan, Taiwan, Korea all want a piece of the pie.
Why do you not start your debate. This is Bantaba a healthy debate is good thing. |
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serenata
Germany
1400 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2006 : 16:22:09
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quote:
Originally posted by kisley
yes you are right serenta about western governments supporting African dictators. I have been reading amnesty international reports,(very scary) and its not just happening in Africa. Babylon makes a good point and i wish we could have a healthy debate.
Kisley, ai reports are indeed heavy stuff; just lately the report on the U.S. 'rendition' programs (Title: 'Below the radar: Secret flights to torture and disappearance', released in April) cost me half a night's sleep.
It is necessary from our side to put pressure on our governments, and to bring the unholy alliances between western and other industrialized nations and African dictators to light. Ooops, maybe now I'll have a 'regrettable accident' soon... |
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Babylon
Sweden
691 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2006 : 16:52:18
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Yes maybe you´re right Serenata that the political change is also our business. Perhaps we westerners could do something here at home to force the western politicians to act more? Let them know we want them to stop supporting African dictators and we don´t want just empty promises but action NOW! We want to see some results.
There are many of us who suffer seeing Africa suffer because of corruption Couldnt we do something to atleast stop the West supporting dictators? I have no idea, the will to do something is here but how can we make it real? Maybe I´m just a dreamer...
What happen after Live 8? Any results yet? Bob geldof sure is one ugly man, but he is a damn hero.  After Centuries of exploiting African soil, nature resourses and people I think the West is in dept, not Africa. The West owes Africa and it´s people a brand new, fresh start, fair trade and without western supported dictators.
And that was a good quote by the way Kisley! |
Edited by - Babylon on 10 May 2006 17:23:11 |
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kisley
United Kingdom
214 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2006 : 17:38:57
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| serenata that rendition programme is scary stuff, yes we should be careful or we might find ourselves on a plane being transported to some unknown destination. Then we have Bush coming out with statements assuring the world that “torture is never acceptable, nor do we hand over people to countries that do torture." Babylon I dont know how we are ever going to force governments to change,(we are so small in the scheme of things) so i think thats why most people go to Africa themselves to try and help. Look at the likes of Bono and Geldoff who tried to get the governments to cancel world debt - did anything happen ? I read one fact that developing countries spend 13 million on debt repayment for every 1 million it receives in grants . What happens to the grants?, they dont always go to the needy, sometimes they end up lining the pockets of the politicians |
Edited by - kisley on 10 May 2006 18:15:09 |
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Babylon
Sweden
691 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2006 : 18:49:14
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| I actually believe that the reason why the wests governmets are so unwilling to do solve anything in Africa is simply because they do not want Africa to develope. They just don´t give a damn about Africa because of racism and fear of the successful African man. In the long term; Fear of a black planet as P.E used to say back in the days. The white governments wants to rule things, keep things in "order" because of their white supremecy mentality. Yeah, I know it may sound crazy and I don´t mean to offend anyone. It´s just my belief, not a proven fact. Facts like these are well kept in the dark anyways... But eventually the hidden rotten fish starts to smell real bad. |
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bamba
Sweden
401 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2006 : 19:45:25
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Babylon, I wouldnt argue with u anyway on this issue. But the blame is almost equally on us black Africans. The situation in black Africa today enhances white domination. The black continent is a continent where any MONKEY can pick up a gun and become a president, and live a paradise like life that can only be read in fairy tales. The situation in black Africa is very confusing and very abnormal. If the situation in black Africa had had a semblance of normality, africa's claim of its rightful portion of the global cake would not have been easily denied.
Present white domination is a bequest from their forefathers. For their forefathers to peacefully lie in their graves, the present white generation has to maintain the domination, they owe it to their ancestors. This explains the solidarity of whites today. |
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serenata
Germany
1400 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2006 : 20:37:42
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Rivalry is the point. Time for my personal little fear theory: I am sure white men fear black men a lot; the black man is, mostly unknowingly, seen as a strong rival.
Why? And what about white women? They (we) are afraid, too. A black person has a stronger presence, the dark colour is much more massive than the pale white. If you are not used to it, this can cause fear. And, as psychological experiments show, fear can easily be mistaken for sexual attraction.
At this point, the circle closes, and the white man has good reasons to fear the black. Yes, maybe whites bite - or kiss blacks just because they fear them...   There is children's rhyme in Germany: "Wo is afraid of the black man"? The connection 'fear' and 'black' is in our cultural tradition...
To Babylon: It is indeed not easy to take action. But Human Rights organizations, organizations like Transparency international, attac or political parties like the Greens have a lot of information, and supporting resp. working with them is a good step (I don't want to recommend a certain political party; the Greens in Germany did a lot of nonsense during the last seven years).
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kisley
United Kingdom
214 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2006 : 21:22:14
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Interesting Serenata , but im not convinced. But Ill put that theory to my husband, for a mans perspective. But talking of nursery ryhmns there has been controversy in the papers (back in March)about how a British nursery schools is changing the rhyme "Baa Baa Black Sheep" to Baa Baa Rainbow Sheep in order to promote 'equal opportunity'.
Talk about off topic - i could have sworn the original posting was about England, weather and happiness. |
Edited by - kisley on 10 May 2006 21:32:10 |
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