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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
 Posted - 10 Dec 2009 : 10:23:53
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quote:
Originally posted by toubab1020
Any politicos going to have a go and answer my questions ?
Toubab, African politics perhaps plays a lot on patronage. Therefore personaliy becomes important, and besides, in the Gambian context,those who rely on patronage and personality cults are the ones often devoid of ideas. These are the parties that emerged as replicas of the defunct PPP. They have no distinct ideological or policy alternatives to Jawara's PPP.
PDOIS for one has been fighting against paronage and personality cult in Gambian politics since its inception in the 1980s. Part of PDOIS' crusade to end patronage is to demystify politics and leadership where leaders are seen as "sepecial breeds with special divine traits".
I think all over the world, politics is played at these two level:
1. Issues
2. Personalities (the personal)
Different countries or regions may use varying degrees of combination of these two depending on political awareness and cultural factors. In the More Developed World, for example with more astute electorates, issues may take more prominence than personalities. In the Less Developed World, however, with less astute electorates, sometimes elctoral campaign and voting itself could all boil down to personality-who is who and who is from where.
This is what PDOIS wants to change in the Gambian politics. However PDOIS' reliance on the message (issues) alone appears incompatible with the Gambian political and cultural tradition. I would prefer to apply an integrated marketing model to PDOIS politics and campaign where strong name recognition, a decent level of patronage, and issues analysisare combined to widen the political reach and loyalty to the party...
I hope I didn't just end up giving more "winded..., political diatribe" |
Edited by - kayjatta on 10 Dec 2009 10:25:03 |
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toubab1020
12314 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2009 : 12:57:03
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Kay, Thanks very much for clarifying the concept of African politics in such an easy to understand way,thought processes of the electorate are different in Africa something that I obviously find difficult to understand not coming from an African Culture,I now have some idea, I must say that for once you appear to have left your legal hat off your head and explained things in a way that the layman can understand,essentially then African politics is based on "
paronage and personality cult" and that leaders are seen as""sepecial breeds with special divine traits".
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"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2009 : 13:05:05
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Well I guess court rooms are like churches, Toubab. All hats off!!
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2009 : 13:07:16
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| Well, well just in the U.S. I guess... |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2009 : 15:25:55
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Many thanks to Kay for clarifications to help those who always make noise through all sorts of provocations, smearing campaign, personal attacks(& all forms of discrimation -"HIBAATEH!"), opportunism, self-gratification & praise singing; rather than focusing on ISSUES, POLICIES, STRATEGIES, TACTICS & CIVIL DISCOURSE TO END YAYA DOMINANCE & HIJACKING OF GAMBIAN DEMOCRACY!
How can Satangfara made a poor analysis with ill-concieved intentions to address an honourable gentle man like Halifa Sallah or focus on him as the subject matter of video(whilst he didn't featured or mentioned in Darboe's video interview)I WILL RE-VISIT YOUR POOR ANALYSIS ON CERTAIN POINTS LATER!
I personally don't need anyone's lecture on how Lawyer Darboe came into politics and tributes; for what is at stake is patriotism & cllective efforts to save Gambian democracy! We are sick and tired of cosmetic (beauty contest) politics, favoritism & divisive politics "FOR THE GAMBIA IS OUR HOMELAND!"; "WE STRIVE, WORK & PRAY THAT ALL MAY LIVE IN UNITY, FREEDOM & PEACE EACH DAY!". In that regard I concur with Kukoi Samba Sanyang's political statement in Gambia Journal to all Gambian patriots against Jammeh's rule under http://www.thegambiajournal.com/Top-News-and-Analyses/576.html
Interesting quotes from above;
i. "NO MORE TIME TO WASTE FOR INTELLECTUAL SHOW BOY CASES BUT OUR DEAR OPPRESSED AND EXPLOITED PEOPLE DEMANDE ONLY CONCRETE PATRIOTIC ACTION TO RESCUE SINKING GAMBIA FOR THEIR FREEDOM AND JUSTICE LEAVING ASIDE THE UTOPIAN DISCOURSES OF INVETERATE THEORETICIANS."
ii. "ONCE AGAIN I CLEARLY STATE THAT IT IS OVER DUE THE NEED FOR A FRUITFUL INTERPOLITICAL DIALOGUE FOR GENUINE UNITY TO ADOPT A STRATEGY TO RESCUE SINKING GAMBIA FOR FREEDOM JUSTICE AND NATIONAL DEVELOPMENT.
iii. "TODAY THE NEED HAS RISEN FOR US TO ADOPT A CLEAR VISION FOR GENUINE UNITY AND REVOLUTIONARY POSITIVE ACTION." |
Edited by - kobo on 10 Dec 2009 16:13:09 |
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Nyarikangbanna
United Kingdom
1382 Posts |
Posted - 10 Dec 2009 : 21:21:20
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quote:
Originally posted by kayjatta
quote:
Originally posted by Nyarikangbanna
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In the 1996 presidential election, UDP relied heavily on the personalities and political influence of many former PPP, NCP, and GDP cabinet ministers and officials. Landing Jallow, Hassan Musa Camara, M.C. Cham, and others were widely seen on the UDP campaign trail; sometimes leading campaigns in the respective constituencies they used to represent. In fact some of these former PPP "wolves in sheep's clothing" and their NCP and GDP variants with their hidden agenda to reposses their confiscated ill-gotten assets resurfaced again during the negotiations to form NADD...
So really, the perception of UDP as "restorationist" was not far-fetched at all, although I agree the APRC used it effectively in their campaign. The PPP became synonymous to Mr. Jones in George Owells, celebrated novel Animal Farm, and as Yankuba Touray (Squealer, the chief propagandist for the revolution in Owell's Animal Farm) threatened Gambians at every campaign stop whether they want to see the return of Jawara and the PPP; the answer was repeatedly "no". This was and is still the dilema of UDP...
Kay, you see, the main problem with you is that you don't ascertain your facts. The likes of Hassan Musa Camara, Landing Jallow Sonko and MC Cham, like most first republican politicians were banned from participating in politics by virtue of Decree 89 which was promulgated shortly before the 1996 presidential election and as a result, they did not take part in the 1996/97 elections. So how can you sincerely state that these people were seen in UDP campaign trails? Are you talking about the same Gambia as I am?
There was no PPP personality or influence over the UDP 1996 Presidential or 1997 parliamentary elections. The PPP personalities you stated and those you may have imagined in your head were strictly banned from participating in the 1996/97 elections. Most of them would not even want to cross a road/street where there was a political gathering for fear of the Junta's unceremonious wrath let alone joining an opposition campaign trail. The likes of OJ even left the country [he was in East Timor] and returned only after both elections were completed.
The only first republican politicians who participated in the UDP 1996 campaign were the very few who weren't covered by the terms of Decree 89 by virtue of them not having hold any public office in the former PPP regime, and they were all members of other banned parties i.e. NCP's Kemeseng Jammeh, Majanko Samusa, Dembo Bojang [by force]and Alhamdou Conteh, and GPP's Mbemba Tambedou and Femi Peters. These are the first republican politicians who helped run the UDP 1996 campaign in their respective regions and constituencies. The PPP and other personalities you stated only joined the fold in 2001 as part of a UDP led coalition in which the PPP was a constituent party, and this was only when the ban imposed by the terms of Decree 89 was lifted.
I hope you will now lay your desire to distort facts to a complete rest.
Thanks
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I do not oppose unity but I oppose dumb union. |
Edited by - Nyarikangbanna on 10 Dec 2009 21:36:45 |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2009 : 08:25:05
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Thanks Nyari again. My sincere apologies for that error, I was just trying to talk about both 1996 and 2001 here. I believe both Darboe and O.J. were talking about the same points below that I referred to. Please See Darboe and O.J.'s statements and my corrected statement below. See I'm not like my friend, Toubab; I research first before I write
“According to Darboe, he had known from the Chairman of PPP Yahya Ceesay that PPP is not interested in supporting a candidate."In fact the majority of those who signed the documents for the registration of PPP have made it clear that they are not interested in supporting a candidate but instead, to regain their assets seized”. Lawyer Darboe; Gambia Daily News; Oct. 28, 2009
“That is why we joined the UDP… we went with the leader to go round the country. Fortunately the team that led the people to the campaign in NBD was Landing Jallow Sonko, who was a former minister; CRD North was Abdoulie Janneh, URD Omar Drammeh, LRD was Yaya Ceesay, in Western Division Kiti Jabang and James Gaye, and I led it here. All of us are from the PPP”. Omar Jallow (aka O.J.); Gambia Daily News, Oct. 14, 2009
”Landing Jallow, Hassan Musa Camara, M.C. Cham, and others were widely seen on the UDP campaign trail in 2001 (correction please); sometimes leading campaigns in the respective constituencies they used to represent.” Kayjatta, Bantaba; Dec. 10, 2009. |
Edited by - kayjatta on 11 Dec 2009 08:30:27 |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2009 : 15:48:03
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Stop the charcter assasinations & smearing campaign to focus on issue Related Bantaba Gambian politics topic on facts and proper information; The Rise and Fall of NADD under http://www.gambia.dk/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8489 |
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Nyarikangbanna
United Kingdom
1382 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2009 : 21:03:35
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quote:
Originally posted by kayjatta
Thanks Nyari again. My sincere apologies for that error, I was just trying to talk about both 1996 and 2001 here. I believe both Darboe and O.J. were talking about the same points below that I referred to. Please See Darboe and O.J.'s statements and my corrected statement below. See I'm not like my friend, Toubab; I research first before I write
“According to Darboe, he had known from the Chairman of PPP Yahya Ceesay that PPP is not interested in supporting a candidate."In fact the majority of those who signed the documents for the registration of PPP have made it clear that they are not interested in supporting a candidate but instead, to regain their assets seized”. Lawyer Darboe; Gambia Daily News; Oct. 28, 2009
“That is why we joined the UDP… we went with the leader to go round the country. Fortunately the team that led the people to the campaign in NBD was Landing Jallow Sonko, who was a former minister; CRD North was Abdoulie Janneh, URD Omar Drammeh, LRD was Yaya Ceesay, in Western Division Kiti Jabang and James Gaye, and I led it here. All of us are from the PPP”. Omar Jallow (aka O.J.); Gambia Daily News, Oct. 14, 2009
”Landing Jallow, Hassan Musa Camara, M.C. Cham, and others were widely seen on the UDP campaign trail in 2001 (correction please); sometimes leading campaigns in the respective constituencies they used to represent.” Kayjatta, Bantaba; Dec. 10, 2009.
Kay, again, you are confusing two issues here. Mr Darboe's statement was in reference to the NADD flagbearer selection debacle that preceeded the 2006 presidential election [may be you need to re-read the story and understand its contextual sense] while that of OJ is in reference to the 2001 election in which the UDP led a coalition comprising of the PPP and the GPP. And even here some of the characterisations made by OJ are misleading and not borne by facts. For example, the Coalition's campaign in the North Bank Division was not led by Landing Jallow Sonko but UDP's Lamin Dibba. The entire CRD campaign team was led by Lamin Waa Juwara who too was UDP. In LRD, Yaya Ceesay was assisted by UDP's Kemeseng Jammeh. In Western Division, Lamin kiti Jabang was assisted by UDP's Yusupha Cham and Dembo Karangnyima Bojang. In the KMC, OJ was assisted by Dembo Bojang [by force]. The Banjul Campaign team was headed by UDP's Ebriama Pesse Njie.
I hope this helps.
Thanks
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I do not oppose unity but I oppose dumb union. |
Edited by - Nyarikangbanna on 11 Dec 2009 21:47:22 |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2009 : 09:06:59
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Thanks Nyari, but I firmly stand by my statements. I have drawn on credible sources which are still unimpeachable. The points I am trying to make are these:
1. The PPP politicians had an agenda to repossess their confiscated assets in 2001 when the ban on politics and political activity was lifted, and this showed again in the run up to the formation of NADD and the 2006 elections.
2. The PPP politicians regroup around, and in association with UDP and actively took part and led political campaigns around the country and their former constituencies under the unbrella of UDP, following the lifting of the ban on politics in 2001.
In a nutshell, the UDP has been always associated with, and had drawn largely all its support from the PPP and the first republican era political base. This is why UDP was and is considered restorationist.
Here is an actual exert from O.J.'s interview with the Gambia Daily News below.
But the PPP for instance has not held any public rally since the ban was lifted. Why? Gambia Daily News
In 2001 when the ban was lifted, then there was a looming election. If we had wanted to spend the resources we had, then we will be diverting from the core issue, to win an election. That is why we joined the UDP in a party-led alliance with GPP and contested the election. Everybody knows that as much as we did not hold a rally, we went with the leader to go round the country. Fortunately we had a fund that the party had and we used it to sponsor the candidate of the alliance. You can realize that the team that led the people to the campaign in NBD was Landing Jallow Sonko, who was a former minister; CRD North was Abdoulie Janneh, URD Omar Drammeh, LRD was Yaya Ceesay, in Western Division Kiti Jabang and James Gaye, and I led it here. All of us are from the PPP. So for any body to say PPP is not active is uncalled for. I think they do not really understand that the PPP and the people have a strong bond. O.J.
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Edited by - kayjatta on 14 Dec 2009 09:09:06 |
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Nyarikangbanna
United Kingdom
1382 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2009 : 13:18:25
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Thanks for your response Kay. I understand your point. However, I consider it as an expression of opinion, something you are perfectly entitled to do have. In respect of OJ's statement, that is about facts and I can tell you that he was not only misleading but also fallacious in that statement. See my previous posting for clarification.
Thanks |
I do not oppose unity but I oppose dumb union. |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2009 : 15:42:13
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Make no mistake about the fact that U.D.P tapped on P.P.P popularity and political network! Darboe was the defence lawyer for former ministers and strong P.P.P politicians that earn him moral suipport from P.P.P supporters when the party was ban. U.D.P can be considered as created by general dissent against A.P.R.C that toppled P.P.P and supporters of P.P.P have no option but to reform themselves under U.D.P banner. Most of them in the frontline and members were former P.P.P stalwarts; e,g Ebrma Pesseh Nije, Waa Juwara amongst others. It was easy for him to rally suuport from them and what happen is already history!
To have some more read analysis from related Bantaba Gambia politics topic Discourse With Halifa Sallah under http://www.gambia.dk/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8329&whichpage=2
[b]EXTRACTED QUOTES: from [b]HALIFA SALLAH AND THE FREEDOM EDITORIAL PART 2 under
http://www.foroyaa.gm/modules/news/article.php?storyid=4087
"For your information when we first met the UDP was emerging from two splits. You would recall that the UDP was forged in 1996 as an Alliance between the former ruling party and the former opposition parties that were banned from contesting in the 1996 Presidential elections. The first split first occurred in 2001 when Jammeh decided to remove the ban on the former ruling Party, the PPP and the Former Opposition parties NCP and GPP. The PPP and NCP decided to register their parties while the UDP was still registered and had drawn membership from the two parties. The GPP did not venture to be registered. However after the registration of the PPP and NCP they still agreed to meet with the UDP and the leader of the GPP to discuss about an Alliance. PDOIS and NRP were not given adequate notice to participate. Eventually, The PPP and former GPP leader decided to endorse the Candidature of the UDP leader and the NCP leader decided to go on his own. This was the first split. Many of his supporters however felt that it was too late in the day for the NCP leader to win. Hence they stuck to the UDP. Others felt that the UDP was under the grip of the former ruling party hence they sunk to political apathy. The NCP leader therefore decided to develop an Alliance with the ruling APRC to contest the National Assembly elections as a way of settling score with the former ruling Party.
The UDP presidential candidate conceded defeat by calling President Jammeh to congratulate him after the 2001 Presidential Elections. Internal party pressure compelled
the UDP leader to change his position on the results of the 2001 Presidential elections. Eventually the party declared the elections to be unfair and made a declaration to boycott future elections until the anomalies were remedied by the Independent Electoral Commission.
Political inactivity gripped the party. The PPP withdrew its support. The former Propaganda Secretary also withdrew from the UDP to form NDAM and began to appeal to the young activists in UDP to join his movement. This was the second split of the UDP. " |
Edited by - kobo on 17 Dec 2009 16:03:04 |
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