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twinkly
United Kingdom
190 Posts |
 Posted - 31 Aug 2007 : 11:42:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Babylon
Sibo, that is also how I see most african couples do. Both partners are usually working and helping eachother with the children, cooking and cleaning.
That is why I wonder what exactly is the gambian womens role, as twinkly said gambian women know their role as a wife and woman?
There are not many traditional housewives here in the west anymore and that is also because one household often can not survive with only one salary.
Most gambian women I know here are hardworking and do not fit into the housewife description Twinkly is giving.
Dearest Babylon
Maybe I am not very good in explaining, that doesn't mean you have to put me on the spot here to try to prove me wrong
Sibo is a very intelligent young person and hits the nail on the spot.
A Gambian marriage is mostly based on FAMILY.
I know many men who have wasted a good ten years waiting for their European wife to be ready to have children, only to end up with the marriage in tatters.Or if they did have children, he is not part of their lives anymore.
Of course he will find a woman who has the same intentions and start a family.
For a Gambian wife, I think it is normal when she marries to start a family a have children.This is the main priority.After all, children are their future.
A man will first of all want a woman who will give him a family.Work is secular but by no means out of the question.The women I know are all having children AND are building their education and work.But in the sceanrio that you are asking about, the main thing for a man is to have a woman to give him a family. |
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Sibo
Denmark
231 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2007 : 14:36:14
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| thanks twinkly |
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Babylon
Sweden
691 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2007 : 15:12:58
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Let me just make it clear that the reason I started this topic was to start a debate of what I and many others have observed, not to disrespect african men or poison peoples minds about african men or white women.
There many are interracial marriages that do last as well as there are african marriages that do not work and end up in divorce. It is all individual.
Maybe africans are more familyoriented than westerns, but it is also not always the case.
Just to make it clear to those people who believe all they hear and build up even bigger stereotypes about africans and whites than they had from the beggining and then chose not to date african men or whites women.
It was not my intetion to try to make people avoid getting into interracial relationships and stick to your own kind. How racist is that?
There are no guarantees when it comes to any marriage, all good marriages demand work and mutual respect for eachother nomatter what country you come from or what color you are.
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serenata
Germany
1400 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2007 : 15:26:33
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Sister Omega, you have a point.
But I am still in doubt about some cases. I saw the pattern (1. Marry a European woman 2. Go to Europe 3. Divorce when you have your residence permit 4. Go to Gambia and marry a young girl 5. Bring your new wife to Europe) many times, and because I saw it happen even to 'good' mixed marriages without any age gap etc. I suspect that it could be something like a rule young Gambian men have to follow if they want to stay loyal to their families. I could imagine that most Gambian parents are not too different from most European parents and that they prefer Gambian (muslim) partners for their children.
And maybe there are some men who feel uncomfortable with an independent wife.
Like one Gambian I know: He passed the whole program and thought his young Gambian wife was his slave now - absolutely dependent on him and not able to make one single step on her own account in the foreign country. He mistreated her and behaved like a tyrant, absolutely disgusting. But in the end he was the one to pull a long face, because with our and other friends' help she left him with the baby and reported him to the police for domestic violence. |
Edited by - serenata on 31 Aug 2007 15:28:40 |
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Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2007 : 17:37:59
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By the way, did not you know that most West Africans get Gambian passport whiles working in the Gambia, that does not make them Gambian nationals nor do they perceive themselves to be.
Gambiabev: “Janko I don’t understand why this is so vital in the discussion?”
It is very important to get the facts right especially when you are making such severe accusations tarnishing a people on this www. Yet you have said numerous times in the forum that you had a nice semester in Gambia and the people were very nice/friendly to you.
Where your boyfriend comes from is very vital in this discussion because you changed the original general question to a specific question pointing a finger at Gambian men. By changing the question, one would expect you have a unique experience from the Gambia related to a divorce from your Gambian husband, who had married you with a preconceived LIFE PLAN.
Looking at your writings on this issue it became clear that you did not marry or lived with a Gambian man. You intended to do so but because of what “someone” told you, you changed your mind. Subsequently it became clear that all you said and is saying about Gambian men and divorce is not based on your personal experience but what you been told.
Then the question of whether your would/could be husband/boyfriend is Gambian or not becomes important, to which you cannot give any conclusive answer. The story of the nationality of your former or could have been husband/boyfriend is very interesting because you are not able to uncover his nationality, if Gambian or Senegalese. Your decision of not going on with the relationship with him is your lack of trust, yet you took him for his word that he is a Gambian.
If all your harshness on Gambian men is based on what you been told, then is high time to question your relation to Gambia, where you said you had a good semester. Moreover, if it would do just for you and for the Gambia that you engage in any charity work there or and if all the things you said can be ratified .
Are you who you claim to be?
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Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
Edited by - Janko on 31 Aug 2007 17:43:57 |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2007 : 18:08:46
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Janko I told you exactly. He is half Gambian and half senegalese. His mum is from senegal and I have met her. His dad is dead, but I have been to the family compound.
Only on Thursday I was phoned by an english lady who had married a Gambian. I met them on my last visit to Gambia. They had been together for 6 years. She married him in a civil ceremony and then he lived with her in England. The next step was to arrange to have his children bought over to england. So now his 2 children are in England too. Happy ever after? No. He has left her and taken his children to live at his brothers house.
He has left his job and spends his time smoking weed and drinking vodka.  
It is a story I have heard many times from many people.
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2007 : 18:18:36
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Janko you ask am I who I claim to be?
I claim to be a 47 year old white women who teaches special needs children and goes to Gambia for holidays. I also sponsor some childrens education and help a nursery a little and visit Pirang and my special family there.
Actually I am an American government spy.
Or I am a 20 year old size 10 fashion model.
On the internet we can all be who we want to be. But I am who I say I am. Why would I invent being a 47 year old white women. I would invent something much more exciting!
Seriously though, why do you think I lie? I am a very honest person. I just try to write my opinion of what I see in the world. That is all. I am also trying to learn more about Gambian society and how it works. I am very interested in society. I studied sociology for my degree. |
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Sister Omega
United Kingdom
2085 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2007 : 22:30:20
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quote:
"And maybe there are some men who feel uncomfortable with an independent wife."
Serenta I agree with your statement. These type of guys are generally insecure regardless of nationality.
On the other side of the coin there are positive, responsible, supportive Gambian men around. They are usually found faraway from the beach.
Peace
Sister Omega
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Peace
Sister Omega |
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Lily
United Kingdom
422 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2007 : 23:29:18
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I think ......
I wanted to start this post with "I think" and then a whole lot about what I do think ...... and then I realised that there are many different things that I think. Just as I realised there are many different "truths" to individual situations. So stereotyping is not at all helpful.
Some relationships are based on loved. And, with luck, will last. Some are based on mutual needs - for one person this may be companionship/a partner/status and for the other it may be out of necessity for something else (yes, even a visa). Who's to say which way 'round that goes?? And whether someone's drive for a companion is any more valid than anothers drive for another life??
Sometimes European women shamelessly "use" African boys/men (we've all seen it). Sometimes African men shamelessly use European women (and we've seen that too). But all are adults - and who is to blame?? Who is the victim and who is the victor? Eyes wide
open...... in every relationship people make their own choices.
Adults make their own choices. If it lasts six weeks, six months, sixty years - hey ho. No difference to anywhere else in the world. Just be kind to each other. And - in the end - honest and be respectful, even in a break up....
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anna
Netherlands
730 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2007 : 09:12:59
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| Very nice thinking, Lily. I think (i also do that sometimes) that it is like you say. |
When an old African dies, it is as if a whole library has burnt down.
Amadou Hampate Ba (Mali) |
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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2007 : 12:13:51
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| Lily ,very level headed there .some assumption are without basis ,you accurately laidout the matter in a great way. |
Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
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Lily
United Kingdom
422 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2007 : 15:43:43
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| Anna, Santa - thankyou for your comments... |
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leokat
United Kingdom
123 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2007 : 16:50:03
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I've been following this topic for sometime now and haven't known exactly what it is I think.
The whole situation is very complicated.
Like Bev I am a forty seven year old English woman. Like her I went to The Gambia on holiday, met a young man in his twenties and fell in love.
Unlike her I had read something of bumsters and sexual tourism before my holiday and I was determined 'nothing like that' could or would ever happen to me. However, no one could have prepared me for, or warned me about, the emotional rollercoaster I found myself on.
Imagine - I am an overweight, not particularly attractive (though I do seem to be improving with age ), middle aged as in - at 47 I must be approximately half way through my life) widow. I have never been what one might call a 'man magnet'. For the past twenty three years I have been a lone parent to my daughter who has mild learning difficulties. I have a medical condition which means I am constantly fatigued and in pain. My life has become isolated and lonely.
I visit The Gambia on holiday. I have the most amazing time of my life. This tiny corner of Africa is everything, and so much more than, I even dreamed it would be: the birdlife, the countryside, the people, the music...
I literally find myself beseiged by young attractive Gambian men. I manage to fend most of them off (not easy when one has never had experience of this level of male attention). But there is one; a totally gergeous, intelligent, sensitive, talented young man. He seems interested. We talk, eventually we meet on the beach at night, he brushes my back with his hand and I realise my feelings for him are overwhelming.
I tell him I have nothing to offer him. I am not rich, do not own my own home, do not even work due to my ill health. He says he already knows. He has worked the beach for five years. He sees that I do not wear expensive clothes, an expensive watch, or jewelery. He says simply 'I like you.' I mention our age difference. He says it does not matter. 'Mohamed's (peace be upon him) first wife was 15 years older than him (how many other women have heard this one?).
But I think 'why not have a fling with him. What harm can a little holiday romance do (as long as one is careful and uses a condom)?' Besides, 'don't I deserve this one moment of happiness?'
Maybe I should have left it there. Maybe I should never have had my little holiday romance. But it happened. Now what?
We exchange phone numbers, we text each other every day - often several times a day, we write long letters to each other. We get on well, the life he has led has made him mature for his years. He tells me he loves me. I am totally and utterly in love with him. BUT! In the back of my mind I am thinking this is too good to be true.
His family want him to marry a local girl - his cousin. The family say it is expected, and as a couple they will have more in common.
He says he doesn't want to marry his cousin. She is too young, too inexperienced. She does not understand him, or how he makes his living. She does not know his dreams nor what he wants from life. I know she could never make those dreams come true.
I am jealous. I want to be the one he marries. I understand and accept the things he has had to do to put bread on his mother's table and to pay for his sister's education (he says better he does it than her). We share a love of reggae and danchall music, of the countryside, animals, of food and many many other things. I could make his dreams of a new life here in 'The West' a reality. I could be a good wife to him. I do not drink alcohol and dress modestly. I have always (well since I was 17) been interested in Africa. I studied black history at university. I have a respect for his religion, but I would never agree to convert to Islam and could never accept a polygomous marriage. Nor can I give him children (though were it possible it would be my greatest desire), or ever hope to unite his family in the way a marriage to his cousin could. If he came to England to be with me he would have to leave behind his friends and family.
I go back to see him. I am going to say goodbye. I think I know he will be happier marrying his cousin who can give him the children he has the right to expect from his life, I think he would be better off forgetting me. But I go not, cannot, tell him it is over. We have a wonderful time. I meet his friends and family. They seem to accept me. He asks me to live in The Gambia with him. I say I cannot. My daughter needs me, besides how would I support myself?
The man I know is like an onion - he has many layers. He is a man, a black man, a fula man, a Gambian man, an African man, A muslim man, a Rasta man. He is his mother's son, the head of the household, his sister's brother, his brothers' brother, my lover and my friend. He is one of 'the boys' on his part of the beach, and this closed season he is a farmer boy. He is also a 21st centuary Westernised man. Standing with his feet firmly planted on the red African earth (or more usually the yellow Gambian sand ) his eyes look out to the horizon and dream of a different future. He thinks he knows how it will be if he can make it to Europe. He thinks he wants that future.
So there we have it. My Gambian man is torn between two possible futures. I think I know him well enough to know that, if he were to marry me and come to England, he'd give it his best shot and I simply do not believe that I could be part of some (concious) 'life plan'. However, I also accept that our marriage might eventually be found to lack in some aspect (children/family cohesion etc) and he might, for whatever reason, decide he'd like to take an African wife. As a Muslim he would probably prefer to keep me as his first wife and take a second but, being in Europe (and with a jealous me who'd find it totally unacceptable), that would not be possible. My man simply could not 'have his cake and eat it'
Personally I'm with lily. I'm an adult I've made my own choices. No matter how my relationship pans out I will never be anything other than totally honoured to have met and loved my wonderful Gambian boyfriend. He's brought something amazing and precious into my life. He's always treated me with respect and consideration and is patient, kind and loving. If (and he's never ever given me reason to doubt him though I've tested him sorely) he's deceived me in any way he will have had his reasons. Life is short - too short to waste on bitter hatred and petty recriminations.
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Lily
United Kingdom
422 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2007 : 18:27:15
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| Right on Leokat... |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2007 : 19:22:45
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| Leokat that is a very honest, well written and thought out piece. It is a very complex situation. I wish you a happy ending. |
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