 |
|
| Author |
 Topic  |
|
kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
 Posted - 19 Oct 2007 : 16:08:38
|
quote:
Originally posted by mansasulu
No. I think we will all have to agree to disagree on this one.
Mansa point on female circumcision is noted but please tackle these direct questions inorder to clarify your point:-
I) WHAT IS FEMALE CIRCUMCISION?
II) WHY FEMALE CIRCUMCISION IS NOT FGM?
Related World Religion topic:Is Female Genital Mutilation an Islamic Problem? (from Bantaba archives )for reference/updates under http://www.gambia.dk/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2773
AND Gambia Cultural forum topic (from Bantaba archives) Amie Bojang-Sissoho of GAMCOTRAP speaks about FGM under http://www.gambia.dk/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3273
Hopefully when debate ends or in progress admin@gambia.dk would attend to conduct a survey under opinion polls on either questions (revised after Mansa's post questioning female circumcision as FGM )as follows:
1)Whether the practise of female circumsision and any form of FGM should be outlawed in The Gambia?
YES
NO
NEUTRAL
NONE
2) Is there the need or importance for Gambia government to properly consider for legislation on the practise of female circumcision and any form of FGM?
YES
NO
NEUTRAL
NONE |
 |
|
|
jambo
3300 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2007 : 16:27:14
|
all together now
answer
questions ONE has to be YES
questions TWO has to be YES |
|
|
|
kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2007 : 18:03:10
|
quote:
Originally posted by mansasulu
Female circumcision is not FGM!
Mansasulu point on female circumcision is noted but please tackle these direct questions inorder to clarify your point:-
I) WHAT IS FEMALE CIRCUMCISION?
II) WHY FEMALE CIRCUMCISION IS NOT FGM?
|
|
|
|
kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2007 : 19:42:39
|
Fowarding Admins. reaction on my request for opinion polls on the need for legislation on female circumcision.
QUOTED FROM ADMINS. MESSAGES RECEIVED BY MAIL
"I see not reason to make any new poll on female circumcision because it will just be going round in circles.
Search the Gambia-L archives and see how extensive the subject has been discussed during the years.
Please refer to": http://www.gambia.dk/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3357
Many thanks Admin. |
Edited by - kobo on 19 Oct 2007 19:47:26 |
|
|
|
mansasulu
997 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2007 : 21:47:24
|
| Clarifying my point goes as far as the e-mail you got from the Administrator of this site. |
"...Verily, in the remembrance of Allâh do hearts find rest..." Sura Al-Rad (Chapter 13, Verse 28)
...Gambian by birth, Muslim by the grace of Allah... |
|
|
|
kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2007 : 22:06:07
|
Mansasulu !
I) WHAT IS FEMALE CIRCUMCISION?
II) WHY FEMALE CIRCUMCISION IS NOT FGM?
|
|
|
|
mansasulu
997 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2007 : 14:44:48
|
quote:
Originally posted by kobo
Mansasulu !
I) WHAT IS FEMALE CIRCUMCISION?
II) WHY FEMALE CIRCUMCISION IS NOT FGM?
I) FEMALE CIRCUMCISION IS WHAT FGM IS NOT.
II) BECAUSE FGM IS NOT FEMALE CIRCUMCISION.
You happy now! |
"...Verily, in the remembrance of Allâh do hearts find rest..." Sura Al-Rad (Chapter 13, Verse 28)
...Gambian by birth, Muslim by the grace of Allah... |
|
|
|
kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2007 : 17:23:01
|
quote:
Originally posted by mansasulu
quote:
Originally posted by kobo
Mansasulu !
I) WHAT IS FEMALE CIRCUMCISION?
II) WHY FEMALE CIRCUMCISION IS NOT FGM?
I) FEMALE CIRCUMCISION IS WHAT FGM IS NOT.
II) BECAUSE FGM IS NOT FEMALE CIRCUMCISION.
You happy now!
Am yet to understand as they are all under the knife and a therapy done with strict confidentiality under cultural or customary influence and practise.
Thanks for your reactions. Am now close on this topic.
|
Edited by - kobo on 22 Oct 2007 17:23:37 |
|
|
|
mansasulu
997 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2007 : 18:21:57
|
quote:
Am yet to understand as they are all under the knife and a therapy done with strict confidentiality under cultural or customary influence and practise.
Thanks for your reactions. Am now close on this topic.
You see how this thing goes in circles?
And to add to your confusion, a "knife and a therapy done with strict confidentiality under cultural or customary influence and practise" is a characteristic of male circumcision well. |
"...Verily, in the remembrance of Allâh do hearts find rest..." Sura Al-Rad (Chapter 13, Verse 28)
...Gambian by birth, Muslim by the grace of Allah... |
|
|
|
kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2007 : 17:02:03
|
quote:
Originally posted by mansasulu
I saw this on the DO and couldn't resist putting it on here.
Written by Sanna Jawara
Alhaji Abdoulie Fatty, the Imam of State House Mosque has rebuted claims published on 1st June edition of the Daily observer, entitled “Female Genital Cutting Unislamic” as utter rubbish.
In an interview with the Daily Observer, Imam Fatty said “as far as Islam is concerned “we do observe circumcision not mutilation”.
He then noted that the tradition has been in existence hundreds of years ago, well before the advent of the modern civilisation.
According to him, “in the Muslim ummah nobody can tell us what is good or not good for our tradition. Before anyone tells us about our tradition, you must convince us that you have a degree or degrees in Islamic studies”
He did not hesitate to describe the publication as a big insult to the Muslim ummah and then urged the perpetrators to desist from such in the interest of religious tolerance and world peace.
According to Imam Fatty, a person who has never experienced Muslim circumcision cannot say anything genuine about it. “If the individual has undergone through the process, and as a result, contracted HIV/AIDS, and died at delivery process or the child died, this can then serve as an evidence of the dangers associated with the practice,” he added.
Imam Fatty further stated that as far as Islam is concerned, Prophet Muhammad (PBU), and his disciples, Islamic Schools of thoughts and Haddish, have all spoken well of the circumcision. He then quoted verse 36, which states that ‘Those who disbelieve and spend their wealth to hinder ‘men’ from the part of Allah, so will they continue to spend it. But in the end it will become an anguish for them. They will be overcome and those who disbelieve will be gathered unto hell”.
The Imam made several quotations from Dr Jack Faal, a renown Gynaecologist, who conducted extensive research on female circumcision, saying “despite all that has been said about it, the surgery in Female Circumcision is simple. What happens is a cutting of the skin, a piece of skin, no bone is involved in it. It amazed people who say you bleed to death in circumcision”.
The State House Imam urged religious leaders to desist from being used by other people for their selfish interest.
He clearly stated that, “there is nothing horrible and sympathetic than those who drills their nose, lips, breast tips, eyes brows, biblical cords, etc, and put in irons there, all in the name so-called fashion” .
Alhaji Abdoulie Fatty, the Imam of State House Mosque has rebuted claims published on 1st June edition of the Daily observer, entitled “Female Genital Cutting Unislamic” as utter rubbish.
The Imam made several quotations from Dr Jack Faal, a renown Gynaecologist, who conducted extensive research on female circumcision, saying “despite all that has been said about it, the surgery in Female Circumcision is simple. What happens is a cutting of the skin, a piece of skin, no bone is involved in it."
Mansasulu please refer to the following and reconcile them:-?]
I) “Female Genital Cutting Unislamic”
II) “despite all that has been said about it, the surgery in Female Circumcision is simple. What happens is a cutting of the skin, a piece of skin, no bone is involved in it." |
Edited by - kobo on 24 Oct 2007 17:05:30 |
|
|
|
mansasulu
997 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2007 : 15:11:10
|
| “Female Genital Cutting Unislamic”- I do not have that story. Perhaps you can post it here and I will try to reconcile them. |
"...Verily, in the remembrance of Allâh do hearts find rest..." Sura Al-Rad (Chapter 13, Verse 28)
...Gambian by birth, Muslim by the grace of Allah... |
|
|
|
kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2007 : 20:40:15
|
quote:
Originally posted by mansasulu
“Female Genital Cutting Unislamic”- I do not have that story. Perhaps you can post it here and I will try to reconcile them.
Lets summarised our facts and information (i.e. what have been gathered through this topic from expert research, knowledge and comments) as follows:-
I) Female genital cutting under http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_genital_cutting
II) 1 GAMCOTRAP leaflet: A woman's rite under http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-125490114.html
["Around 80 per cent of girls in the Gambia undergo this procedure. Seven of the nine major ethnic groups practise female genital mutilation (FGM) at ages from shortly after birth until 18 years old"].
III) Is Female Genital Mutilation an Islamic Problem? (from Bantaba archives )for reference/updates under http://www.gambia.dk/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2773
IV) Islam · Female Circumcision in Islam under http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=Wikipedia+Islam+and+Female+circumcision&spell=1
V) Women and Islam under http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_Islam
VI) Integrated topic: Egypt outlaws female circumcision under http://www.gambia.dk/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3925
VII) AND Gambia Cultural forum topic (from Bantaba archives) Amie Bojang-Sissoho of GAMCOTRAP speaks about FGM under http://www.gambia.dk/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3273
VIII) GAMCOTRAP HONOURS 18 ex-CIRCUMCISERS under http://www.gambia.dk/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3616
QUOTES:
Imam Fatty further stated that as far as Islam is concerned, Prophet Muhammad (PBU), and his disciples, Islamic Schools of thoughts and Haddish, have all spoken well of the circumcision.
The Imam made several quotations from Dr Jack Faal, a renown Gynaecologist, who conducted extensive research on female circumcision, saying “despite all that has been said about it, the surgery in Female Circumcision is simple. What happens is a cutting of the skin, a piece of skin, no bone is involved in it. It amazed people who say you bleed to death in circumcision”.
quote:
Originally posted by sab
He might be a gynaecologist etc., and I have worked with many, but he spoke about bone and not the sensory & nervous tissue. I would be very reluctant to let him in my knickers!
He is not separating practices of culture from medical knowledge when speaking.
I have also seen some appalling treatment carried out in the maternity wards of our UK hospitals by senior gynaecoligist, so I would say dont rely on the grand title.sab
|
|
|
|
mansasulu
997 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2007 : 21:44:18
|
| I guess this reconciles all the points if that is what you meant |
"...Verily, in the remembrance of Allâh do hearts find rest..." Sura Al-Rad (Chapter 13, Verse 28)
...Gambian by birth, Muslim by the grace of Allah... |
|
|
|
kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2007 : 22:47:50
|
quote:
Originally posted by mansasulu
I guess this reconciles all the points if that is what you meant
Thanks Mansa and hope all issues & cases closed on this topic. |
|
|
|
Janyanfara
Tanzania
1350 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2007 : 22:50:42
|
FGM, FGM, Whaaaaaat?
I think people would talk about this for ages without comming to any concrete agreement or common understanding of this very old practice.
Circumcision was being practised as far back as the time of Abraham and even beyond.
If we start discussing about it today, we need to ask our selves why circumcise women and men?I think this should be the topic rather one agueing about the reducing of female sexuality.
I don't think it is true that if a woman is circumcised her sexuality is reduced.Well if that is the case, then some women would ask for sex if not circumcised as I can say from experiance before marriage, I felt in love with uncircumcised ladies and also latter with a circumcised ladies. How do one tell the difference? I tell you if the woman loves you and you love her, I can assure you, you both enjoy having sex with or without circumcision.They both do the same moanings,sayings lovely words, ect ect no difference at all.
I would rather think of the health issues but not their sexuality.Any girl who says she cannot enjoy sex because of circumcision, I say she doesn't maybe love her partner or else she need teaching from her fellow circumcised ladies as to what they do to come three time .
If female circumcision is harmful, I would not agree or disagree as I am not a woman and can't tell but one thing that wonders me is if the practise is harmful, how about gender reassignment which sometimes requires a lot of operations? How about putting rings and stuff on one's genital? Is this not mutilation?
Circumcising young girls could be wrong as some argued it is against their will.But almost most decisions parents make is against the will of childreen despite it might be for their future.Like sending them to school, giving them names.We normally never seek their concent before we do such things as we feel that is part of our parental responsibilities. Therefore like wise some parents would also argue circumcising their female daughters are part of their parental responsibilities.
People must not confuse circumcision with religion as most religions would rather not discuss it. There no where in the Holy Bible from Genisses to Revelation where you would find God forbiding circumcision either for male of female.Though female circumcision is not mentioned, it was never forbiden.Like wise in the quran From Baqara to Suratul Nnas, you will never find female circumcision forbiden there.The Tora like wise.
So why all the fuss?If you tell women to stop the practise, they insult you.I think if it is harmful, those who practise it should be sensitised about what the causes are with proofs so as to convince them of the real dangers.
I for one with my wife would not send our daughter into it but I must note she can request to have it when she is ten or so then she would have known about it. |
Edited by - Janyanfara on 31 Oct 2007 22:56:28 |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
| Bantaba in Cyberspace |
© 2005-2024 Nijii |
|
|
|
Topic Locked
