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Cornelius

Sweden
1051 Posts

Posted - 21 Jan 2007 :  01:31:56  Show Profile Send Cornelius a Private Message
Yes Lily o Lily you probably remember this song?

http://www.guntheranderson.com/v/data/pictures.htm
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Karamba



United Kingdom
3820 Posts

Posted - 21 Jan 2007 :  01:44:05  Show Profile Send Karamba a Private Message
By defiant nature of humans, anything prohibited tends to attract users. Age restrcited products are not in any lesser demand. Society is the biggest promoter of sex. The Internet provides easier access to sexually attractive sites lot more.

Children / under aged/ minor, you call them. They still access what the laws or society prohibits. Alcohol, cigarrets, and even wee are being used by those most prohibited to use them.

With sex too, fornication, incest, adultery, and all sorts of promiscuity are seen to be forbidden. Yet many persons still choose to indulge in these extra-marital affairs. Many people doing so is still no good reason to let others follow suit.

Karamba
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Cornelius

Sweden
1051 Posts

Posted - 21 Jan 2007 :  01:57:55  Show Profile Send Cornelius a Private Message
” sexually attractive sites” did you say old chap or did you mean unadulterated pornography?

This is a line that one often hears in the Wild West:
"Sex between consenting adults” - which does not preclude ZINA.
Just the other day someone came up to me and asked me in Swedish, "What's three plus three?"
" Sex" (Swedish word for six) I replied and got a wink and a lascivious smile in return……that's why some pray, " and lead us not into temptation"

The opening line of Oliver Goldsmith’s “The Vicar of Wakefield” also made an indelible impression on me:

” I was ever of opinion, that the honest man who married and brought up a large family, did more service than he who continued single and only talked of population.”

http://www.bibliomania.com/0/0/24/52/frameset.html

So with our president Jammeh on the war path against logistic support to prostitution, here’s a little question for you Karamba on social and population policy: In your opinion should there be sex and population control in the Gambia?
Do you believe that there are already too many
mouths to feed?
( Yahya Jammeh did win the Lansana Conte prize for Agriculture late last year, and I’m surprised that the trouble in Guinea has not yet been reported in Bantaba:
http://allafrica.com/guinea/

Edited by - Cornelius on 21 Jan 2007 02:18:21
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Karamba



United Kingdom
3820 Posts

Posted - 21 Jan 2007 :  02:27:05  Show Profile Send Karamba a Private Message

Cornelius,

I am not sure if there exists any policy on sex and population in Gambia. My assumption is that there is none. Often I read or hear about Sex Tourism and the name Gambia is associated with this. I am not sure also if TOURISTS are free to engaged in SEX as part of their their holiday enjoyment package. I have not heard a tourist being arrested or simply confronted for sexual misconduct. The beach front is openly used by half nude tourists pehaps for the sun.

If I were to subscribe to any policy on Sex and Population, the tourism sector will be an attractive area to consider. All I know is that even in hot Summer days Westerners we receive as tourists still use normal dress. Some times, younger ones dress rather differently.

My answer is that we need a policy and the listed observation can be counted as initial input to the proposed policy (in case there is none)

Karamba
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Cornelius

Sweden
1051 Posts

Posted - 21 Jan 2007 :  02:46:03  Show Profile Send Cornelius a Private Message
You are indeed a serious-minded person with a good heart for your country and of sound mind ( not in need of a cure from the holy Kanilai water that Lemon Time recommended for me )

I am surprised that I cannot find the following and much more important stuff that I posted to Bantaba in Cyberspace, which I cannot now find in the archives! They have obviously been deleted because of a lack of respect for the importance of keeping a record of the written word and the understanding that what has been said has been said.

Pourquoi?

And who was it that recommended that they be deleted and why?
There is a diffrence between even poetry and the wry and dry that can pass for wit or witty .

Lemon Time:
“ Cornelius, i command you in the name of THE TORAH to drink The Kanilai Holy water to cure the evil devil in you.It will help you overcome your madness” (14 Aug 2006

And here it would seem that I was anticipating the presidential cures when I made this request of lemon Time: and the following replies mostly with a sense of humour that is lacking by some members of this Forum:
” Brother,
Excuse my curiosity at the village square,
and it is an ignorant one that asks, exactly
what is this mystical
kanilai
holy
water?

(Of which you speak)
and
PS: if it’s good for mankind, then how can we
get some?)”


PS: I wonder what you could add to the advertising of the mysterious Kanilai holy water “da magic water” about which it is said

“The concoction is very strong and the journey perilous” “dont use STRAW to drink kanilai holy water,it is best effective by using WOODEN SPOON.” “I am supposed to drink it? I thought I just sprinkled it over myself? Kanilai - I just remembered - is where the President lives? Must have worked for him then!”(Jojo)

and the MOST WORRYING statement coming from Lemon Time when he says: “Cornelius Hamelberg Kanilai's holy water is made by Yahya Jammeh and company, when you drink the water it cure mad people like you.KONDORONG can get you some.”

Now it’s possible that Gollum has been taking this Kanilai medication and that its effect or temporary effect on mad people has been clinically certified, but it’s not that, that bothers me.
My first question to Lemon Time and JoJo, is: "What effect does the water have on those who are NOT mad=?

To the Chief Priest and marketing chief of the wholly water:

KONDORONG,

Be strong!

The Lemon Cuckoo who sometimes suffers a relapse back to being Gollum when he does not take his holy kanilai water, says that you are the High Priest dispenser.
I am humbly applying for some, first of all to ascertain the Kosher sources of it’s spiritual ingredients.
I have ¾ of a litre of holy Zemzem which was donated to me by one of my Turkish students last year – from an Imam family.
It surely cannot be more efficacious than ol’ Zemzem…….surely?
Then al Hassan should want to have some, when he’s in the right (halal) state of mind. And maybe also the Babylions and empathic Toubabus who love the Gambians more than I lover my own brothers and sisters.

See you later yellow alligator,
On the banks of the Magic Nile.


Karamba, here is some vicious criticism of the president's cures, couched in the vilest most defamtory and anti-presidential language and with such disrespect that it would make

someone shiver:

http://news.google.co.uk/news?hl=en&q=MARABOUTS&btnG=Google+Search&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wn


Hej Nyarikangbanna!
By the way,

We are waiting with patient expectation that a devastating and patriotic response will come from a patriotic Gambian and hit that Insolent blogger ( I mean bugger) so that he stays out for the night. I expect it to begin like this:
” Did you just insult our president or is it all miss-spellings? Please state your position clear ASAP. The last thing I will do is standby watching a foreigner or a Gambian insulting a father figure of my country.”

Or Something like Muhammad Ali threatening to do some damage

" I done wrestled with an alligator, I done tussled with a whale; handcuffed lightning, thrown thunder in jail; only last week, I murdered a rock, injured a stone, hospitalised a brick; I'm so mean I make medicine sick. ”

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/boxing/6267397.stm


Edited by - Cornelius on 21 Jan 2007 05:10:04
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Lily

United Kingdom
422 Posts

Posted - 21 Jan 2007 :  10:41:49  Show Profile Send Lily a Private Message
Thanks for the song Cornelius
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gambiabev

United Kingdom
3091 Posts

Posted - 21 Jan 2007 :  11:37:56  Show Profile Send gambiabev a Private Message
Madiba and Lily, I am not judging, just stating that the reality is often different from the Islamic ideal. Similarily it used to be the case in the Uk that the Church of England said sex outside of marriage was a sin and that people should be virgins when they married and only have children within marriage. My parents believed this to be the ideal and were protective of me in the same way as Muslim parents protect their daughters.

I am not too concerned about sex outside of marriage as long as it is truely consensual. BUT I would still like my daughters to be married and well settled before theyhave children. To have a child is a BIG responsibility and needs to be taken VERY seriously. My daughters know my views. Butif they did have a child 'by accident' I would suport them, help them and guide them in any way I could.
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MADIBA



United Kingdom
1275 Posts

Posted - 21 Jan 2007 :  12:28:50  Show Profile Send MADIBA a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by gambiabev

Madiba and Lily, I am not judging, just stating that the reality is often different from the Islamic ideal. Similarily it used to be the case in the Uk that the Church of England said sex outside of marriage was a sin and that people should be virgins when they married and only have children within marriage. My parents believed this to be the ideal and were protective of me in the same way as Muslim parents protect their daughters.

I am not too concerned about sex outside of marriage as long as it is truely consensual. BUT I would still like my daughters to be married and well settled before theyhave children. To have a child is a BIG responsibility and needs to be taken VERY seriously. My daughters know my views. Butif they did have a child 'by accident' I would suport them, help them and guide them in any way I could.



Great thoughts GambiaBev!

madiss
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sab



United Kingdom
912 Posts

Posted - 21 Jan 2007 :  16:58:17  Show Profile Send sab a Private Message
Madiba you are correct re the legal document – it came about in October 2006.
I see that Tisme has edited the original posting earlier today, but I would suspect this document is what caused the posting.

Below it is copied in part from The Gambian Journal - October 2006;

A representative of the Department of Education told the workshop; She said education policy guidelines have condemned, and described sexual contacts between a student in the school system and any other person, be he or her another student, teacher, member of staff or member of the public outside the education system, as sexual misconduct.

The policy entitled “policy guidelines and regulation on sexual misconduct and harassment in Gambian education institutions” states that where such sexual conduct involving students whether consensual or not, will be deemed as sexual misconduct requiring disciplinary action.
The education policy guideline noted that this disciplinary action may not
be taken against consenting sexual behavior between two adult teachers or members of staff in the educational system, or students and staff in the tertiary system, provided no indecent acts are perpetrated openly.

“Sexual harassment of a student, teacher or any other member of staff within the educational system is intolerable and is disapproved of in the civil service regulations, national laws and international conventions as well as the policy. In consequence, the penalties stipulated in such instruments shall be invoked against all culprits”, the education policy stressed.

The policy also outlines that anyone within or outside the educational system that transgresses the law, such as defiling of a girl under the age of sixteen or by raping someone shall be required to face the wrath of the law.
regards, sab.






The world would be a poorer place if it was peopled by children whose parents risked nothing in the cause of social justice, for fear of personal loss. (Joe Slovo - African revolutionary)
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MADIBA



United Kingdom
1275 Posts

Posted - 21 Jan 2007 :  17:45:18  Show Profile Send MADIBA a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by sab

Madiba you are correct re the legal document – it came about in October 2006.
I see that Tisme has edited the original posting earlier today, but I would suspect this document is what caused the posting.

Below it is copied in part from The Gambian Journal - October 2006;

A representative of the Department of Education told the workshop; She said education policy guidelines have condemned, and described sexual contacts between a student in the school system and any other person, be he or her another student, teacher, member of staff or member of the public outside the education system, as sexual misconduct.

The policy entitled “policy guidelines and regulation on sexual misconduct and harassment in Gambian education institutions” states that where such sexual conduct involving students whether consensual or not, will be deemed as sexual misconduct requiring disciplinary action.
The education policy guideline noted that this disciplinary action may not
be taken against consenting sexual behavior between two adult teachers or members of staff in the educational system, or students and staff in the tertiary system, provided no indecent acts are perpetrated openly.

“Sexual harassment of a student, teacher or any other member of staff within the educational system is intolerable and is disapproved of in the civil service regulations, national laws and international conventions as well as the policy. In consequence, the penalties stipulated in such instruments shall be invoked against all culprits”, the education policy stressed.

The policy also outlines that anyone within or outside the educational system that transgresses the law, such as defiling of a girl under the age of sixteen or by raping someone shall be required to face the wrath of the law.
regards, sab.









Thanks SAB for the confirmation.

madiss
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Cornelius

Sweden
1051 Posts

Posted - 21 Jan 2007 :  17:51:22  Show Profile Send Cornelius a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Karamba


Cornelius,

I am not sure if there exists any policy on sex and population in Gambia. My assumption is that there is none. Often I read or hear about Sex Tourism and the name Gambia is associated with this. I am not sure also if TOURISTS are free to engaged in SEX as part of their their holiday enjoyment package. I have not heard a tourist being arrested or simply confronted for sexual misconduct. The beach front is openly used by half nude tourists pehaps for the sun.

If I were to subscribe to any policy on Sex and Population, the tourism sector will be an attractive area to consider. All I know is that even in hot Summer days Westerners we receive as tourists still use normal dress. Some times, younger ones dress rather differently.

My answer is that we need a policy and the listed observation can be counted as initial input to the proposed policy (in case there is none)


“Necessity is the mother of invention”.

I had always thought that in Muslim countries such as the Gambia, a man is entitled to have four wives "and those who his right hand possess" and was quite surprised by this presidential prohibition (for who in Islam can forbid or suspend that which the prophet of Islam, salallahu alaihi wa salaam permitted? Is it not bida?

Is the proscribed period over?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/3088315.stm

I do not believe that the last sentence in the above report is accurate.


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Alhassan

Sweden
813 Posts

Posted - 22 Jan 2007 :  08:51:54  Show Profile Send Alhassan a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Cornelius

quote:
Originally posted by Karamba


Cornelius,

I am not sure if there exists any policy on sex and population in Gambia. My assumption is that there is none. Often I read or hear about Sex Tourism and the name Gambia is associated with this. I am not sure also if TOURISTS are free to engaged in SEX as part of their their holiday enjoyment package. I have not heard a tourist being arrested or simply confronted for sexual misconduct. The beach front is openly used by half nude tourists pehaps for the sun.

If I were to subscribe to any policy on Sex and Population, the tourism sector will be an attractive area to consider. All I know is that even in hot Summer days Westerners we receive as tourists still use normal dress. Some times, younger ones dress rather differently.

My answer is that we need a policy and the listed observation can be counted as initial input to the proposed policy (in case there is none)


“Necessity is the mother of invention”.

I had always thought that in Muslim countries such as the Gambia, a man is entitled to have four wives "and those who his right hand possess" and was quite surprised by this presidential prohibition (for who in Islam can forbid or suspend that which the prophet of Islam, salallahu alaihi wa salaam permitted? Is it not bida?

Is the proscribed period over?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/3088315.stm

I do not believe that the last sentence in the above report is accurate.





Cornelius,
I think this law has come because of problems in marrages. Mostly problems of fairness. A Muslim man can marry four wives if he can meet the following conditions.
1. If he cannot get children with the first he could take a second , but must consult the first.
2. If The man cannot have sexual intercause with his wife because oflong time illness. In this case he should consult the first wife.
3. If many husbands die during JIHAD(holly war)then a man can marry a widoe to protect her.
4. He must be able to treat them equally. Love all at the same level.
As These are the conditions I can remember. Most of them are hard to fullfill, so it is recomended to have only one.
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Janky



United Kingdom
92 Posts

Posted - 24 Jan 2007 :  14:07:00  Show Profile Send Janky a Private Message
In the Quaran it states " That a man can have up to 4 wives PROVIDING, his first wife consents, he can split his time equally and he can provide for them equally and financially". It is also stated in the Shariha law.
If this is the case, then why does a gambian man marry more that one wife IF they have to resort to begging on the streets as the are so poor, and also getting the children to beg.
I am all for people having children as they are precious but how will a third world country get better IF the people cannot afford to feed,clothe and educate the children that they have. Where do you draw the line.
I believe that President Jammeh has said that a man can only have up to 3 wives providing that they can provide financially for them, spend time equally and consent of the first wife. How can he bring this in as law and go against what the Quaran states.

Janky

Edited by - Janky on 24 Jan 2007 14:08:27
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Alhassan

Sweden
813 Posts

Posted - 24 Jan 2007 :  14:17:47  Show Profile Send Alhassan a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Janky

In the Quaran it states " That a man can have up to 4 wives PROVIDING, his first wife consents, he can split his time equally and he can provide for them equally and financially". It is also stated in the Shariha law.
If this is the case, then why does a gambian man marry more that one wife IF they have to resort to begging on the streets as the are so poor, and also getting the children to beg.
I am all for people having children as they are precious but how will a third world country get better IF the people cannot afford to feed,clothe and educate the children that they have. Where do you draw the line.
I believe that President Jammeh has said that a man can only have up to 3 wives providing that they can provide financially for them, spend time equally and consent of the first wife. How can he bring this in as law and go against what the Quaran states.



Sister,
If the people cannot do as the Quaran teaches, then it is only proper that the country's laws defend the women. I cannot understand your point. Please explain more.
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Janky



United Kingdom
92 Posts

Posted - 24 Jan 2007 :  15:07:40  Show Profile Send Janky a Private Message
Some conversations that I have had in the past with Gambian men who live in England keep saying that they are allowed to take up to 3 more wives as it is law in the islamic religon. If that is fact and what they believe then I dont have a problem with them believing this BUT what I say is it states that if they can spend their time equally and provide for them equally. My question is "If a man lives in England 50 weeks of the year and spends 2 weeks in Gambia, and he has a wife in both countries, HOW is that spending time equally as it states in the Quaran.

Janky
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