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serenata
Germany
1400 Posts |
 Posted - 06 Dec 2006 : 16:21:26
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Mbay, where there is no demand, there is no offer, and vice versa. Of course not all men are running to prostitutes, as well as not all women are whores (Kennst Du den Witz über das frauenfeindliche Muttersöhnchen? Er sagt: "Alle Frauen sind Nutten - außer Mutti!"  ) I don't know if I am a feminist, but if it means trying to be reasonable and just - then I must be a feminist... |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2006 : 17:57:16
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Hi Njucks:
I can imagine an undercover police woman posing as a prostitute at Senegambia , and as this big fat guy most likely an important public figure approaches for sexual deal , he is then arrested and handcuffed. This ia one way the police can get men participate in prostitution . Prostitution is a two way street . If women are prostitutes , who do they prostitute with ? Of course men (in a traditional sense). Men are usually also the pimps who should be arrested.Don't you think? |
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mbay
Germany
1007 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2006 : 18:01:25
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Um Gottes will! nicht doch noch so wie Alice Schwarzer oder?  (Spaß)
bin nicht frauenfeindliche Muttersöhnchen!
I don’t see all feminist as you may thought but most of them are making separations
between men and women though we trying to short out deference’s but why then are they doing just the opposite
quote:
Originally posted by serenata
Mbay, where there is no demand, there is no offer, and vice versa. Of course not all men are running to prostitutes, as well as not all women are whores (Kennst Du den Witz über das ? Er sagt: "Alle Frauen sind Nutten - außer Mutti!" ) I don't know if I am a feminist, but if it means trying to be reasonable and just - then I must be a ...
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2006 : 18:03:50
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| It takes two to tango. From what i have observed in the postings, its as though only one group is responsible. Its a demand and supply economics and both are culpable. |
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serenata
Germany
1400 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2006 : 18:54:35
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quote:
Originally posted by mbay
Um Gottes will! nicht doch noch so wie Alice Schwarzer oder? (Spaß)
bin nicht frauenfeindliche Muttersöhnchen!
I don’t see all feminist as you may thought but most of them are making separations
between men and women though we trying to short out deference’s but why then are they doing just the opposite
Mbay, ich bin noch tausendmal häßlicher als Schwarzer! Of course some of the feminists make separations. But many women realized how hostile men behave(d) against women, and now they think it's time to pay back...
Kondorong, you are right - both are culpable. But while prostitutes always have been accused and despised, their male clients went unharmed. This is not ok.
And more: In Europe, prostitution has been a women's 'business' for long centuries. Then the men took over (kayjatta, you mentioned it), and from this time on there was (and is) forced prostitution, violence, trafficking and so on. |
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Cornelius
Sweden
1051 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2006 : 19:46:49
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Horny: The problem of Football &
World Cup prostitution ina Germany……..
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&rls=GGLJ%2CGGLJ%3A2006-46%2CGGLJ%3Aen-GB&q=Der+Spiegel%3A+World+Cup+prostitution&meta
“But while prostitutes always have been accused and despised, their male clients went unharmed. This is not ok.” (Serenata)
and as Gambiebev says,
“Education and opportunities to earn a living in a safer way is the way to curb it. The women aren't the criminals. The men that USE them should be the ones being rounded up…..”
and so in Sweden the one who buys sex is a criminal…….
In the 70s Ousman Manjang wrote an article in Dagens Nyheter about the morally corrosive effects of tourism on the young – the Gambia was then earning approximately $13, 000,000 annually from tourism ( mostly because of unfavourable terms of money exchange and payment requirements and could have been earning more) With the prevalence of sex tourism as one of the attractions that has increased the number of tourists in third world destinations, it would mean that more stringent laws would make it impossible for the exploiter and the exploited to ply their trade or do business.
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&rls=GGLJ%2CGGLJ%3A2006-46%2CGGLJ%3Aen-GB&q=Sex+Tourism+in+the+Gambia%3F&btnG=Search&meta=
Some fifteen years ago, it was more than infuriating to read in a tourist handbook for West Africa, a report that gave the location of the central Police station as the place that was situated next to the local brothel – and that was before the war….
In connection with the hijab as a protective measure for women, against sinful men, wonderful Bev went on and on:
“If there is a sin it is with the men that letch after women, not with the women who walks freely down the street.
As a women you should be able to walk anywhere, dressed anyhow and be safe. 100%. The problem isn't with women, it is with men who can't control themselves, or choose not to.
Perhaps men should have a curfew?! Then women would be safe to walk alone at any time!
If Muslim men really feel they couldn’t control themselves, perhaps they should go to the doctor for medication?!”
I fail to see why the emphasis is on Muslim men………
And here too she bets that “ loads of them are good Muslims with wives and children. Sickening!!!!”
Good Muslims?
The Criminalisation of buying sex in Sweden.
http://www.google.co.uk/search?rls=GGLJ%2CGGLJ%3A2006-46%2CGGLJ%3Aen-GB&hl=en&q=the+criminalisation+of+buying+sex+in+Sweden&btnG=Google+Search&meta=
Swedish law on prostitution.
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&rls=GGLJ%2CGGLJ%3A2006-46%2CGGLJ%3Aen-GB&q=Swedish+law+on+prostitution&meta
2004
http://www.thelocal.se/search.php?keywordSearch=Prostitution&year=2004
2005
http://www.thelocal.se/search.php?keywordSearch=Prostitution&year=2005
2006
http://www.thelocal.se/search.php?keywordSearch=prostitution&year=2006
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Edited by - Cornelius on 06 Dec 2006 20:31:04 |
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serenata
Germany
1400 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2006 : 20:10:15
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As far as I know (from the 'Spiegel' site) business during the World Cup was a big disappointment for the sex industry. There had been a public discussion about forced prostitution before, and German officials were very alert. Traffickers had little chances. But the demand for prostitutes was very low; the fans preferred to party elsewhere.
Sorry, but the facts destroy your new attempt to smear the image of your ancestor's homeland. Next time don't take outdated links and informations if you want to manipulate people. |
Edited by - serenata on 06 Dec 2006 20:30:46 |
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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2006 : 21:05:57
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| GAMBIABEV. YOU CAN VOMIT ALL THE VENOM YOU HAVE AGAINST MUSLIM BUT HEY WE DON'T CARE. YOUR REFERENCE TO GOOD MUSLIMS IS BOTH STUPID AND SILLY. HAVE YOU CONDUCTED ANY RESEARCH TO CONCLUDE THE LACADASICAL NONSENCE YOU JUST SAID. YOU CANNOT BACK THAT UP. A GOOD MUSLIM IS THE ONE WHO ABIDE BY THE LAWS OF ALLAH .ILLIGAL SEX IS A DEATH SENTENCE .A GOOD MUSLIM WILL NOT DO THAT. MY REFERNCE TO GIVEN THE PROSTITUTE A BIG FAT GUY IS TO SOLVE THE SEXUAL DEMAND IF THAT IS THE REASON, AND TO EDUCATE THEM IS FOR THEM TO REALISE HOW DANGEROUS THE TRADE IS. FOR THE BETTERMENT OF WOMANHOOD I BELIEVE BOTH PARTIES SHOULD BE JAILED. WOMEN SHOULD NOT LOWER THERE SCALE JUST BECAUSE OF MONEY ,WOMAN IS THE KEY TO EVERY SOCIETY AND IF THEY ALLOW THEMSELF TO BE USE AND ABUSE THAT SOCIETY IS DOOMED. BLAME THE MEN BUT THE WOMEN WILLINGLY ACCEPT THE PRICE. THE AUTHORIES SHOULD STOP THE NONSENCE ONCE AND FOR ALL.BRING IN SHARIA.. |
Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
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anna
Netherlands
730 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2006 : 21:26:31
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I am beginning to dislike this (same old) discussion very much! Why is it that we seem to be running around in circles?
Someone comes up with a newspaper article about prostitutes in the Gambia being held up by the police (factual), someone comes up with the idea that prostitution in the Gambia was brought on by tourists (not true), someone comes up with the idea that all women should be feminists (whatever is that, is it the same as taking the responsibility for your life as a woman), someone comes up with prostitution at its highest while the worldcup was going on in Germany (these mostly hooligans were mostly drunk and not up to any achievement, let alone sexually) and someone comes up with an objection to these allegations.
It is getting very boring!
There have been women selling their bodies for money or something that only money can buy for as long as mankind has existed. Face it, it is indeed a question of supply and demand, it is business. There are Muslim men making use of prostitutes, there are Christian (Catholic, Protestant etc.) men making use of prostitutes, and there are Hindu, Buddhist men making use of prostitutes, and there are non-believers making use of .........
What this is all about: there are women who choose to be in this business of their own accord, there are women who end up in it unvoluntarily (and pushed into it by men, like the Eastern European or South American women we have in prostitution here in Western Europe who were promised nice jobs as a receptionist or a secretary by sly male criminals).
The women who were playing a major role in the article posted here in the first place were Gambian women who were selling themselves in small bars in Serrekunda for 50 or at the most 100 dalasis to Gambian men (no tourist would ever venture there), because they could think of no other way to keep themselves and maybe their children alive.
Stop being 'clever' and think of the fate of these women, who can find no other way out and who might, in their strive to make a living, make victims of themselves and others - spreading disease. What about their children?
There are classy callgirls (who choose this job and are intelligent enough to protect themselves), and there are women selling themselves because it is the only thing they have to sell (or so they think).
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When an old African dies, it is as if a whole library has burnt down.
Amadou Hampate Ba (Mali) |
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anna
Netherlands
730 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2006 : 21:35:19
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SANTANFARA! You are frightening and frighteningly short-sighted! Bring in Sharia? No tourism as from that moment. Remember the posting of not long ago that tourism and the moneys that came back into the country from Gambians living abroad were the major sources of income?
Leave out Sharia, bring in a better work ethic and less hypocrisy and much, much less corruption - maybe then the Gambia will get somewhere!
DON'T SHOUT ALL THE TIME! WHO ARE YOU TRYING TO INTIMIDATE?? |
When an old African dies, it is as if a whole library has burnt down.
Amadou Hampate Ba (Mali) |
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Cornelius
Sweden
1051 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2006 : 21:41:02
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quote:
Originally posted by serenata
As far as I know (from the 'Spiegel' site) business during the World Cup was a big disappointment for the sex industry. There had been a public discussion about forced prostitution before, and German officials were very alert. Traffickers had little chances. But the demand for prostitutes was very low; the fans preferred to party elsewhere.
Sorry, but the facts destroy your new attempt to smear the image of your ancestor's homeland. Next time don't take outdated links and informations if you want to manipulate people.
Now now Serenata,
When you get to the end of this, you’ll find that we agree about more things than we disagree about- although you are very much a woman ( as you say) and I’m a man.
Prostitution is not a German problem. It is not only a problem in Europe , it is a problem in the whole world. I used the readily available example of Germany – because the whole world was focused on Germany during the world cup, and you are the one who directed our attention to the problem of Prostitution during the Football World Cup Party in Germany, long before you posted this one:
http://www.gambia.dk/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1005
M’bay has still not answered your question, which is also my question:
“ The Gambia has attracted government-licensed prostitutes from the entire region, (afrol). If prostitution is illegal - who gives the licenses?”??????
What kind of dangerous , negative and absolutely pessimistic statement is this, coming from you – that “… making prostitution illegal seems to be a dangerous and useless way of dealing with the problem.”
NO, I for one didn’t know “ that in THAILAND (!!!) prostitution is illegal” Thanks for the information – I’ll ask Pelle ( Berlin born Ilse’s son,) who is my dinner guest next Saturday ( 16th December) – he has been running his own Hotel at Washington Square in Bangkok for some 15 years – and is here for a visit. I’ll ask him about these matters. ( You may call and talk to him if you like). Of course you are suggesting that Gambian and Thai conditions approximate more closely when you continue “Did this end or even reduce it? Not at all. But because of this law, women can be easily exploited; corrupt policemen blackmail them, and no proper (health) control is possible”
Now getting back to the question of ancestor’s homeland, Germany, may I very politely enquire of you, WHY don’t you follow in Sweden’s footsteps, in trying to solve this problem of the sexual and commercial exploitation of women ?
WE agree ( you and I) that not all men are running to prostitutes, and not all women are whores. WE also agree that “prostitution should never be encouraged, and everything should be done to control and reduce it.” We also partly agree and the question is not exactly “why does afrol write such nonsense?”
The question itself is our joint admission that it is a BIG problem, but not an insurmountable problem for as socially progressive a country as Germany, too?
“a big disappointment” could mean that some fans returned to their homelands sexually dissatisfied. ( They didn’t get any) and as you observed so clearly, “prostitution is linked with tourism” - and in this Spiegel case we’re talking about football tourism ( fans ) and sex
Unharmed, I’m just
trying to be reasonable and just.
These facts destroy
Prostitution in Germany:
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&rls=GGLJ%2CGGLJ%3A2006-46%2CGGLJ%3Aen-GB&q=Prostitution+on+Germany&meta=
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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2006 : 21:49:01
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anna. you are correct in most of your assertions. women should at all cost be helped and protected from falling into that situation were the only option will be selling there body. it is some thing i strongly feel sad about. we should not be finger pointing and name shaming each other. the authorities most find a viable solution and not quick fix cheap media coverage.
i encountered a situation in birmingham in 2002 whilst i was working in hotel call the burlington. this is a very expensive hotel. we have a furniture fare and most leading furniture tycoons came from all over u.k and we have a very wealthy indian business man from cadif in whales .he book his room and stayed untill 12 mid night. he came dowm , met me and a guy call alan from canock from near wolf. the indian man ask us to provide for him a woman for the night. i came shock and angry but alan told me be calm, i ask him what for he said to me , '' young man i am a very happily married man but three times a year i sleep with women outside''. i told him and you are happy with that he said yes. i said to him it is not our job to provide prostitute or escort girls for client. the problem is not that all women are desperate in being prostitutes some do it for the money ,in gambia's case some may be absolutely desperate. this fact need to address ,the women should not be harrass .the men folks fail them simple. |
Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
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anna
Netherlands
730 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2006 : 22:15:45
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Santanfara, thank you for showing that you are a human being with a heart.
This is exactly so: some women are in this dangerous business because their menfolk
failed them and someone should try to show them a way out.
I am relieved and grateful because of your response. I am sorry that for a moment i thought you were a narrow minded fanatic. |
When an old African dies, it is as if a whole library has burnt down.
Amadou Hampate Ba (Mali) |
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Cornelius
Sweden
1051 Posts |
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njucks
Gambia
1131 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2006 : 23:12:02
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quote:
Originally posted by kondorong
It takes two to tango. From what i have observed in the postings, its as though only one group is responsible. Its a demand and supply economics and both are culpable.
unfortunately your posting is the only one i will agree with. People are emotional and sometimes forget fundamental facts. ok some women are prostitutes because men want to pay for sex,. Fine, buglars exists because wealthy people leave their doors open, drug dealers exist because drug addicts exist.
there are poorer and more desperate women in The Gambia. you know what these women do, they raise families of tens of children, they go the vegetable gardens and grow crops, they sell peanuts in the streets. if you wish to excuse certain activities thats ok, but the rule of law must be applied to the letter.
TOURISTS DID NOT BRING PROSTITUTION IN THE GAMBIA. BUT TOURISM IS WHAT HAS TAKEN IT OUT OF THE DARK, TOURISM IS WHAT HAS MADE WOMEN SELL THEMSELVE IN THE STREET IN BROAD DAYLIGHT. IF YOU HAVE BEEN IN THE GAMBIAN IN THE 1960S,1970s,1980s YOU WILL SEE THE EVOLUTION OF THIS AND THE DIRECT RELATIONSHIP TO TOURISM.
every country has a right to solve its problems. In The Gambia prostitution is illegal.period the police are simply doing their job.
its difficult to catch the men to arrest them in the first place, but its also difficult to gain a conviction of these women. what do you think will be presented as evidence???
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