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Momodou
Denmark
11717 Posts |
 Posted - 01 Mar 2007 : 13:13:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Babylon
Kiwi, yes she was born this month. So now I don´t have to worry about the whole circumcision issue nomore, thank God for that...
Congratulations!! |
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Babylon
Sweden
691 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2007 : 17:17:04
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Tack så mycket Inez & Kiwi and thank you Twinkly & Momodou! :-)
Yes Twinkly, I will enjoy every second, minute and hour. As you know babies grow so very fast. Right now she´s only 2 weeks old and the sweetest little thing in the world!
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sisay
48 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2007 : 14:30:19
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Hi folks
I come late into this discussion but I feel I have something to add.
Many Western countries outlaw circumcision except under strict conditions such as phimosis (infection of the foreskin), or when a foreskin will not retract. These conditions are very painful and traumatic for the child and although they are rare in a boy who practices sound hygiene, many will say the very possibility is a good reason to circumcise. As has been already raised by others, men who are not circumcised are much, much more likely to transmit the human papiloma virus (HPV) which causes cervical cancer.
Someone asked a question as to why Jewish women are less likely to have cervical cancer. That is very simple. Jewish women tend to choose only Jewish men as partners. As Jewish males are circumcised at 8 days, the incidence of HPV is greatly reduced and as a result, the incidence of cervical cancer is minimal.
Why 8 days? According to the Bible, Abraham was the first to believe in God and was willing to give up his only child as a test of faith. At the point he was going to sacrifice his only child, God stopped him and required him instead to circumcise himself. From that moment on, all his male descendents would be circumcised on the 8th day of their life as a sign of the pact between God and Abraham. There is some symbolic significance to the 8th day but I do not know about that.
The medical profession agrees that circumcision is best practiced on a newborn rather than an older child because the memory is less developed. Therefore there is no trauma caused by the procedure. Actually, when local anaesthetic is administered shortly before, there is hardly any pain, if at all, although there will be some pain some time after, which doesn't last long. An injection is not necessary as an anaesthetic cream can be applied in its place. This hospitalised procedure is becoming common in many African cities, and more commonly with newborns. Usually at 1 month to a few months, rather than 8 days as is the practice in Judaism.
Of course in our traditions circumcision is practiced between 7 and 11 years. In the villages it is done in the bush as part of training for manhood. In the old days this training was done over 6 months or even several years. There is much beauty in these coming of age rites.
However, our traditions are always changing. Just like the training is no longer as long, certain other changes have taken place. It makes sense that as we become more educated about the benefits of early circumcision, this will become even more commonplace. It does not necessarily mean that a child will miss out on a meaningful initiation later on. I do think that more parents will question the need to circumcise or to have it done so late in a child's life. Already Africans living in the diaspora are asking these questions, whereas at their hometown they would probably not go against tradition. The pressure from the family (both of the mother and father) is often too great at home to allow it.
So I do not put forward any opinions here on what one should do with their own child. That is up to the parents. But I put forward these facts and discussion so that some of you may be helped in your difficult decisions.
Peace |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2007 : 12:17:47
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| Congrats Babylon ! However , I agree with my friend Dalton that the benefits of circumcision for boys far outweighs the drawbacks(if any). You said you want to wait until he can decide for himself ? When can he decide ? At 18 years old ? |
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Babylon
Sweden
691 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2007 : 21:00:06
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Thank you Kayatta!
My opinion on male circumcision is that nomatter what the benefits are it is still not up to me to decide over another human beings body and which parts are Ok to cut off.
Because I do not own another person, not even my child so therefore I think it´s wrong to circumsize without his permission. When the child grows up (about 18) and is capable of making own decisions he can go and do it if that is what he wishes.
Call me crazy but that´s just how I look at it with my "western mind".
I have nothing against people who circumcise their babyboys, but I would not do it. |
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mansasulu
997 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2007 : 19:43:22
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| I circumcised my son before we left the hospital (when he was two days old)and I am sure he will thank us for it. |
"...Verily, in the remembrance of Allâh do hearts find rest..." Sura Al-Rad (Chapter 13, Verse 28)
...Gambian by birth, Muslim by the grace of Allah... |
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Babylon
Sweden
691 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2007 : 19:30:01
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I think it all depends on which culture we are from and where we live wether he will be thankful or not.
Here in Sweden most people (swedes) are against it for the same reasons I am and it is not usual to circumcise little boys unless it is for medical reasons.
Me and my spouse have had many discussions about this because we are from different cultures.
Because we had a daughter, we are now discussing about wether we should pierce her ears or not.
I am against it, because it can cause allergies, infections and the baby can rip the earrings off when she´s playing, swollow them, it looks ridiculuos on babies etc. While for him it is the most natural thing, of course girls must have earrings because all girls have it in his country.
A little off topic but again it is a question of which culture you are from.
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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2007 : 20:52:15
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| wouldn't it may nice to ask babies before they are born ,whether they want to be born in the first place if we are to arque that the child need to grow up and then decide certain peculier things. what is the role of parents then ? also why not we wait for the child to be 18 and then ask them if they want to start school ? |
Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
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mansasulu
997 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2007 : 21:29:02
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| good question my brother! |
"...Verily, in the remembrance of Allâh do hearts find rest..." Sura Al-Rad (Chapter 13, Verse 28)
...Gambian by birth, Muslim by the grace of Allah... |
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Babylon
Sweden
691 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2007 : 22:43:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Santanfara
wouldn't it may nice to ask babies before they are born ,whether they want to be born in the first place if we are to arque that the child need to grow up and then decide certain peculier things. what is the role of parents then ? also why not we wait for the child to be 18 and then ask them if they want to start school ?
Chill man... 
You ask what the role of the parent is?
Well in my opinion it is to guide the child and teach them about life, teach them right from wrong, how to behave among other people, how to make own decisions and become an independent person etc.
I think independence and an own will is a good thing.
I already think that forcing your beliefs or religion on somebody is wrong, you can teach someone and take your child to church but you can not force him to be religious because everybody should be free to make their own choices.
That is my opinon. You may have another opinion and raise your children diffrent than I, that don´t mean you are better than me or that I´m better than you so there´s no need to get angry about it at all.
Just try to understand that we are different.
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Alhassan
Sweden
813 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2007 : 09:19:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Santanfara
wouldn't it may nice to ask babies before they are born ,whether they want to be born in the first place if we are to arque that the child need to grow up and then decide certain peculier things. what is the role of parents then ? also why not we wait for the child to be 18 and then ask them if they want to start school ?
Santanfara and Sulu,
As I have experienced in Sweden some cultures that are not Swedish are termed as violation of humanrights. We realy get it hard sometimes. This topic has been on the radio debate for some months ago and Swedish people accuse us who pratice it on males as we violate their humanrights. I have become more angry of this people because if they are ignorant of these culture they could fine out.
They are too suspious of us as muslims because we wish our children to become one. I would not stop my culture because I live in Sweden. No matter howmany years I live here, I shall never become a Swedish in reality. I am always that black forigner even after I had accuared my Swedish citizinship for more than 20 years ago. The goo part of the Swedish culture I adopt and the bad ones I just forget them. My daughter had her ears pierced when she was 2 months old. We did as at home with ordinary tread until she was about a year old. The problem with arlargic here in Sweden is that they start putting all sorts of jwels on very early ages. |
Edited by - Alhassan on 23 Aug 2007 11:56:24 |
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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2007 : 11:02:00
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cicumcission is not any religious culture per say .jews do it ,animist ,muslims ,atheist and many other people .it is not about any one imposing his/her religious nuts on any one. it is the way some people feel the manhood should be. why did the west stop male circumcission ? may be some religious historicains can shed some light but from what i heard it was the comments made by paul after he embrasse christianity .he paul said that circucission is not necessary that is how the christianise west stop male circumcission but most other christian community practice it .male circumcission started during the time of abraham in recorded history but medically ,it is proven to be healthy .it is up individual to do it or not to do it .it is just like every other thing ,if one like some thing he/she do it or if not don't.
again ,it was paul who also stated that if any man can avoid sex then don't marry .this is how priesthood and nunns became cerlibate .so some times certain influences started centuries ago.
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Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
Edited by - Santanfara on 23 Aug 2007 11:06:31 |
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Babylon
Sweden
691 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2007 : 12:09:02
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I just wonder what you guys think about boys or men who are not circumcised?
If I had a son (biracial) and he went to his fathers african country how would people know if he is circumcised or not? I mean, will they check or what? |
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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2007 : 12:21:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Babylon
I just wonder what you guys think about boys or men who are not circumcised?
If I had a son (biracial) and he went to his fathers african country how would people know if he is circumcised or not? I mean, will they check or what?
babylon ,no .people will not be interested whether he is circumcisse or not .male circumcission was relevant in local communities due certain traditional procession and initiations just like the mason .but now that has wane away due to change of culture and globalisation .nothing is very local or traditional any more . we use to dance and party when young boys are coming of our hibernation or staying from out side the villages .a camp use to be set up out side towm and villages to house this circumcisse boy and they are look after untill they are healed and a big culutral dance etc will be held .but that is no more .individual circumcisse their son's without a big deal .so no one will be interested to know . |
Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
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Alhassan
Sweden
813 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2007 : 15:38:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Babylon
I just wonder what you guys think about boys or men who are not circumcised?
If I had a son (biracial) and he went to his fathers african country how would people know if he is circumcised or not? I mean, will they check or what?
Babylon,
AS I know Gambia, there will be no. This is left to the parents. Remember there are older christians in Gambia who are not cercumsied and have never been asked why. |
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