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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
 Posted - 02 Nov 2006 : 01:32:04
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| Some African Head of States may be too rich not to bother about this offer. It would have been helpful to support the monitoring watchdog at Havard to have access to overseas private bank accounts of African presidents to assess how rich they are and generate a rich lists annually! |
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Cornelius
Sweden
1051 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2006 : 10:17:05
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Great idea except that, the motto for some is ”Make hay while the sun shines” and
1.The confidentiality of the banks will not betray their rich clients.
2. Money can be salted away in many other investments and not always in their names.
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=BBC+%3A+how+much+African+leaders+have+stolen&btnG=Google+Search&meta=
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=rich+African+leaders&btnG=Search&meta=
The rule of law should take care of all.
Still curious (in a very remote kind of way) I asked Dr. Google.
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=+Year+2006%3A+the+richest+African+politicians+&btnG=Search&meta=
If only they would invest all their blood, sweat, money and tears in Africa........
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=those+richest+African+politicians+&btnG=Search&meta=
In Sierra Leone see some of them fighting tooth and nail to be nominated party leader and praying for presidential power. If such very average individuals don’t respect the people now, and look down on them, it’s unlikely that they will do so when they have been elected by them. Especially those dimwits who think that they are so brilliant.
Put them in a top graduating class in Stanford today - in any subject- and just see how they shine with their knives and forks.
A disgusting lot, in the cock-crowing kingdom of the blind. Give them a tie and a $100 suit, and they start acting like the provost of M.I.T. So pitiful. Never even run a little company successfully now they want to take over the whole country – and of course increase their salary. Is that all they have to offer?
What would Harold Pinter say about them?
The president of the Gambia is much more humble and down to earth than all of them put together. He is doing well.
http://allafrica.com/stories/200611010788.html
PS. There are dangers about an annual riches list and I’ll explain why:
Some years ago the rumour was that the US authorities had a list of the corrupt members of a certain African Government ( Not the Gambia) and that the people on the list would not be granted visas to the US. Of course as you can well imagine, the guilty ones would not be very anxious to apply for a visa and the ultimate proof of not being on the list would be to be seen to arrive and be well received on US soil. This could also be a way of controlling the recalcitrant – almost as good as your from rags to riches list.
In the spirit of Bo Göransson ( former head of SIDA and Swedish ambassador to Kenya) I suggested that those who want to enter big time politics in Sierra Leone should declare their assets - and that in fact all the big timers should declare their assets, so that the people may watch by which leaps and bounds this wealth grows - after they attain to the power which they seek. But could you believe it, up to now, no one has come forward to declare how much they are worth. This is for several reasons ( apart from the "transparency and accountability” which they let fly from their lips, but how sincerely?
Perhaps they do not declare because they do not have that much to declare and are feeling ashamed to declare their poverty. This is especially true of the aspirants and sycophants who are still hoping that they will be rewarded for fighting so loyally for those they support.
Politics is the quickest way of getting rich for the baba-baga boys – otherwise they’d be running their successful businesses........
Kobo I hope that you find these articles useful:
http://www.swedenabroad.com/pages/general____31848.asp
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=Bo+G%C3%B6ransson+Swedish+ambassador+to+Kenya&btnG=Search&meta=
Over a year ago the strongman of Libya spoke:
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=Qadhafi+tells+the+African+Union+some+Home+Truths&btnG=Search&meta=
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Edited by - Cornelius on 02 Nov 2006 23:59:23 |
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Cornelius
Sweden
1051 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2006 : 14:12:04
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To Aku Pikin:
http://www.library.northwestern.edu/africana/map/
http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=slv2-&ei=UTF-8&p=Berlin%201884%20and%20Africa
Yahya Jammeh belongs to the younger generation of forward-looking African leaders. He was democratically elected, so why should anyone or some prize-money want to eliminate him, when he is proven good to his country?
Your general concern is our general concern and although most have sinned and fall short of the glory, I know that the president of the Gambia has not looted the peanut national treasury and emptied the proceeds into his pocket. You do not believe that either - even though it pays a little to support Taiwan.....
The things you complain about could be rectified within the twinkling of an eye, in the Gambia – without loss or diminishing of power and every Gambian knows that democracy is through the ballot box. There is reason for optimism that the Gambia can be a model nation.
If only you had diamonds, gold, bauxite, rutile, etc. the Gambia would easily be beyond where we are now and the Gambia of one million people is still way ahead of many who are more blessed with natural resources.
If someone gave you £1,000,000 you'd probably have enough self-restraint to increase that to 2,3, 4, or more in as many years…….
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Edited by - Cornelius on 02 Nov 2006 15:03:01 |
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Aku_pickin
Christmas Island
162 Posts |
Posted - 04 Nov 2006 : 17:07:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Cornelius
To Aku Pikin:
http://www.library.northwestern.edu/africana/map/
http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=slv2-&ei=UTF-8&p=Berlin%201884%20and%20Africa
Yahya Jammeh belongs to the younger generation of forward-looking African leaders. He was democratically elected, so why should anyone or some prize-money want to eliminate him, when he is proven good to his country?
Your general concern is our general concern and although most have sinned and fall short of the glory, I know that the president of the Gambia has not looted the peanut national treasury and emptied the proceeds into his pocket. You do not believe that either - even though it pays a little to support Taiwan.....
The things you complain about could be rectified within the twinkling of an eye, in the Gambia – without loss or diminishing of power and every Gambian knows that democracy is through the ballot box. There is reason for optimism that the Gambia can be a model nation.
If only you had diamonds, gold, bauxite, rutile, etc. the Gambia would easily be beyond where we are now and the Gambia of one million people is still way ahead of many who are more blessed with natural resources.
If someone gave you £1,000,000 you'd probably have enough self-restraint to increase that to 2,3, 4, or more in as many years…….
Cornelius, I honestly believe that Yaya means well. He however lacks the few attributes which make for a great leader.
He needs to realize that constructive criticism is a positive thing as it will help him improve his leadership skills. He must understand that he is there to serve the people, it’s not the other way around.
You are right in that my concerns could be rectified in a twinkle of an eye. This is what baffles me the most. It is such an easy thing for him to do but in 12 years he has failed to rectify them. Our president could increase his support base by merely implementing the changes we are calling for. Should he, my support will increase to 100%.
According to the CIA fact book link you provided, as far as natural resources are concerned, Gambia has fish, titanium (rutile and ilmenite), tin, zircon, silica sand, clay, petroleum.
Why haven't these resources been exploited to the benefit of the Gambian people?
Yes if given a 1,000,000 euros, I would have enough restraint to increase it 10 folds to the benefit of the nation. I would not even fathom lining my own pockets, as you say from our so-called peanut treasury. |
Justice must be served as impunity brings more repression and corruption! |
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Cornelius
Sweden
1051 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2006 : 15:04:00
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Dear Aku Pikin (like me)
http://www.library.northwestern.edu/africana/map/
Thanks for some enlightenment – and that’s how we always learn from one another, because I didn’t know the extent of the Gambia’s natural resources before I read your posting – that you ( Gambia) actually have commercial quantities of “titanium (rutile and ilmenite), tin, zircon, silica sand, clay, petroleum.” – You know that some of us have thought that all you guys have is pyramids of groundnuts + fish in the river Gambia and outside your narrow stretch of territorial waters. (The fish of course makes you as smart as the Bengali people……
There was a time when I asked Saine Jain (a dear Gambian brother) about developing fisheries in the Gambia through SWEDECORP – this was at a time (1980s) when Swede Corp was assisting Senegal with Fisheries - but he advised me to not get involved in fish business – well, I listened to him because the guy has been on pilgrimage to Mecca about five times…….
About the other natural resources which you mention – should your narrow country be stripped-mined now? - There is always the question as to whether some of these could be left for the future Gambian generations to explore/ exploit…….
http://www.google.se/search?hl=sv&newwindow=1&q=SWEDECORP+%28+English+reults+only&btnG=S%C3%B6k&meta=lr%3Dlang_sv
Dear Aku Pikin, thanks also for the honesty about which we both agree as you say, “I honestly believe that Yaya means well” GOOD!
I understand YOUR MISGIVINGS ABOUT THE PROPOSED PRIZE GOING TO your 41-year old Dr. Jammeh (the same age and generation as Fredrik Reinfeldt) – both of them being slightly further away from the perfection of the type that Jesus is reported to have recommended.
We do tend to place all the problems of our nation(s) squarely on the shoulders of our presidents, even as we talk about “people power”.
Part of your problem could be the same as mine: A prophet has no honour in his own home town……not that Yahya himself expects any more prophets to appear….
I sincerely beg to disagree with the rest of your sentence and your personal discernment that His Excellency the president of the Republic of the Gambia “however lacks the few attributes which make for a great leader. “ That’s really talking bull and his resounding success in the last election (67%) gives a knockout punch to your thesis: listen you here and I’m sure that the majority of Gambians will agree with me that Yayha J.J. (“junior Jesus”) Jammeh is no mediocre leader of the Gambia.
First of all he is a courageous and determined leader. From the first day of that successful coup he has proved that. Question is does anyone regret the progress that he has made during the past ten years - some say, compared with a dissimilar lack of progress under Jawara’s 30 year rule?
In your reply to this please specify which attributes he lacks in your eyes – I know that your emphasis is on “the few attributes which make for a great leader.” GREAT LEADER. Although that is not exactly what we are talking about here: we are talking about Jammeh’s potential in winning the prize in question, and we should look at what the prize is trying to encourage:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6086088.stm
Do you mean that he is not as capable of removing corruption and improving governance – this twin problem that bedevils Africa?
In addition I think that Yahya Jammeh is more than capable of continuing to do what he has been doing and what is required here:
“ The award will go to African heads of state who deliver security, health, education and economic development to their constituents.”
It was because of this type of progress under his leadership that he secured his second coming with 67% and we wish him more success. As he himself says,” "Let us work together as a government, as a people to deliver to the Gambian people what we promised them and even more than what we have promised them"
http://allafrica.com/stories/200611010788.html
O.K. to whom should the prize go and what are the criteria for choosing the winner, other than what has already been stated?
The prize is proposed for some as yet unspecified near future (as early as next year?) – so front-line runners like Thabo Mbeki, John Kuffour, Ellen Johnson-Sirleaf are in the running/ competition, whereas Ahmad Tejan Kabbah who has worked so tirelessly during the past ten years will retire and be out of office before the end of next year’s rainy season. Comparing Jammeh and Kabbah, I should like to compare them favourably and to point out that just recently Jammeh won the Lansana Conte prize for agriculture: both Jammeh and Kabbah are very concerned about our stomachs (“a hungry man is an angry man” and have food security as one of their most cherished goals for their nations – a few years ago Kabbah promised that “No child will go to bed on a hungry stomach by 2007” He literally has some 55 days to go to Christmas.
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=sv&q=Jammeh+wins+agriculture+prize&btnG=Google-s%C3%B6kning
We should give honour where honour is due and I know that you too congratulate him and all the farmers……
In one of the last replies in our on-going dialogue/ discussion, I posted a map of Africa for you to peruse to your satisfaction, and for you to decide who should get it…… (Just kidding)
That Agriculture prize is a testimony / confirmation of achievement. It is also an encouragement.
I think that the proposed prize is an encouragement and however critical people may be of their presidents (some are forever in the disgruntled opposition) there is support for the idea and the various heads of state are aware that one in 53 will win the first prize…….
Gambians should/ could persistently point out the direction that they would like their leader to take and point to tha prize…… after all, the attributes that you believe Mr. Jammeh to lack can be acquired, and he is still growing as a conscientious leader, is not as intolerant of the free press as you would like to think and I have never felt constrained in what I write about the Gambia on Bantaba and I do agree with you “that constructive criticism is a positive thing” not only for Yahya Jammeh, but also for each and every African leader.
You say that “He must understand that he is there to serve the people, it’s not the other way around.” All I can see from here in Stockholm is that
Yahya Jammeh is certainly serving his people otherwise “the opposition” with all its constructive criticism would have whipped him in the last election……
I’m grateful (smile) that you think it makes sense that I am “right in that my (YOUR) concerns could be rectified in a twinkle of an eye”, although that was a bit of an exaggeration – since change itself is something of a process, you say that “in 12 years he has failed to rectify them” although you have not specified what these changes should be. Could you kindly do so in your rejoinder, so that we will see it happen, even if only a little more gradually? There are so many aspects that have to happen in concert and we do have the essentials of a democracy: rule of law, separation of powers, free press etc…..
Using your democratic free will and right you could bring YOUR concerns to his attention by writing a personal letter to him, assuring him of your support on the one condition, in your own words that “Our president could increase his support base by merely implementing the changes we are calling for. Should he, my support will increase to 100%.”
Your last sentence quoted below is unfair and below the belt, but I’ll add no further comment as I have already told you what the president’s moral guidance, the Qur’an says about making false allegation without proof.
”Yes if given a 1,000,000 euros, I would have enough restraint to increase it 10 folds to the benefit of the nation. I would not even fathom lining my own pockets, as you say from our so-called peanut treasury.”
From my end, the only possibly worrying sign on the future horizon is attributable to a Yahya Jammeh statement that (in accordance with the Gambian Constitution which sets no time limit for the president - he may preside till he goes to paradise) he is in for the long haul and intends to be a president who delivers to his people for another 30 years…….
Aku Pikin, nah so ah see am oh….
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Edited by - Cornelius on 06 Nov 2006 17:00:07 |
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Janyanfara
Tanzania
1350 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2006 : 17:59:22
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Kobo,Aku pikin, and Cornelius,
you guys really are funny and you make me laugh a lot.
Though am a bit busy and can't keep up with everyone contributing on Bantaba,but I do enjoy your arguements!
Bless you lots
peace
Janyanfara |
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Dembish
Gambia
284 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2006 : 19:00:54
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| Brother cornnellius can you further proof that Jammeh has not looted from our peanut fund as you put it,hence the man has never appear before any commission of enquiry into his assets and the way he got them.Today we know Jammeh is very whealty but how, as we have seen him in july 2004 and today.further explanation please |
There is no egg without a chicken, and no chicken without egg. |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2006 : 19:31:19
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| It should be an important part of this argument , whether Jammeh is most likely to win this prize if we could give comparative figures on the status of "security , health , education and economic development" which are the yardsticks for mearuring success. One must ask what is Jammeh's score on each of this points ? Does anybody have independent official figures ? |
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Cornelius
Sweden
1051 Posts |
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2006 : 21:39:41
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| Sure Gambia attend the Beijing Coneference. But the name Beijing Conference in the civil service brings different memories. |
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Cornelius
Sweden
1051 Posts |
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Cornelius
Sweden
1051 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2006 : 12:45:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Dembish
Brother cornnellius can you further proof that Jammeh has not looted from our peanut fund as you put it,hence the man has never appear before any commission of enquiry into his assets and the way he got them.Today we know Jammeh is very whealty but how, as we have seen him in july 2004 and today.further explanation please
Dembish,
You surely don't expect the onus of proof to come from me in Stockholm?
In the interests of transparency and accountability it would serve incumbent presidents well, to declare their assets to their electorates, to show a clean slate and in doing so to confront negative speculations and rumours with some truth and honesty.
In being very contrary to what Aku Pikin has been saying, this has been my consistent attitude: that short of proof, accusations, no matter how close to the probable truths are nothing less than wild or spurious.
In Sierra Leone we have something called the ACC - a good idea. I will not comment on its efficaciousness or effectiveness but I invite you to take a look at the whole idea, because Sierra Leone’s problems have a similar sociological base to the Gambia’s……..
http://www.anticorruptionsl.org/
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Edited by - Cornelius on 08 Nov 2006 12:56:30 |
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Dembish
Gambia
284 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2006 : 22:56:01
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| WELL FUNNY ENOUGH MR CORNELIUS AS YOU ARE THE VERY ONE CLAIMED THAT JAMMEH DID NOT LOOK OUR PEANUT FUND, I WAS SIMPLY ASSUMING THAT YOU GOT PROOFS TO BACK YOUR CLAIM, BUT HENCE YOU DON'T HOW TRUE IS YOUR CLAIM???????? |
There is no egg without a chicken, and no chicken without egg. |
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Cornelius
Sweden
1051 Posts |
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Cornelius
Sweden
1051 Posts |
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