 |
|
| Author |
 Topic  |
|
kajaw
70 Posts |
 Posted - 12 Jun 2006 : 19:25:39
|
The question is interesting but i am not sure people are going about this in the right way. First of all, it is difficult to choose between two evils. It is difficult for instance to choose between josehp Stalin Mao or hitlar. They were all mass murderers and at some point, when they all riched in the tens of millions of kills, the count ceesed to matter.
On Jammeh and Jawara, they have both hurt the gambian people so much that it does not matter much anymore. Many people seem to have this notion that jawara was kinder. this is far from the truth. People were arrested and yes totured and sometimes killed. Just like jammeh, many people dissapered after the 1981 coupA lot were killed by the senegalese forces without justification. The open secret is that senegalese troups under jawaras invition carried many summary executions of civilians. It is also the case that many were detained without trial and totured. To give you some names. Simon Talibo Sanneh, Kutobo Sanyang, Alieu Sallah, MAss Corr. Even Siriff Dibba (whom i dislike) was arrested at verious times without justification and totured. On press freedom, remember Sanna Sabally. Arrested and totured and charged with fictious charges and his news paper was closed. By the time he was acquitted, he was broke ass because he dared to criticize ministers in the government. Jawara also brought us this God awful military that has become for all intents and purposes a canser in our society. What do we need a military for? Who will we be defending against? Our only neighbor is senegal and no matter how big our military becomes, if they were not compelled by international laws, they could take over Gambia in a matter of days. Geographically, the country is simply indefensable against senegal. We have over three hundred miles of boarder with senegal on both sides. On corruption, Jawara started this insedious culture of corruption that has gripped gambia. We all know of the corruption of Saikou Sabally, OJ, JAwara himself (the abacha oil deals), Jawaras inlaw momodou musa njie ( it was farely well nkown that he never paid goods at the ports) I know because my brother was a customs officer). We also know that Jawara built few schools, no university no tv station, a midocer radio station, poor roads, one functional hospital to speak of. We all know also that JAwara spent millions of our money in that nonsense senegambia confideration and hirered nigerian troops for his protection and almost gave up our soverignty to senegal. We are also aware of jawaras travels. He was one of nonly a few leaders who could be away from his country for more than a month. We know that that was the case before july 22.
The only possitive i could tell about jawara was perhaps he was more educated and knew the inner workings of government better. The other thing i could say is that perhaps he did not leave us with a huge national debt compared to Jammeh. He also did not come out and verbally insult gambians and heep them with treats, nor did he insult our intellegance by lying to us about oil and other things. Jammeh for instance has told so many lies to Gambians that he definately qualifies as a pathological lier. I also never questioned Jawaras sanity. I know he was a devious crook for sure but i never thought he was criminally insane. I am convinced that is the case with Jammeh. Jammeh has Hitlars pathology. Someone who lies effortlessly someone whoes brutaility has no bounds and someone who is obsessed with self agrandizement. (His excellency colonel Dr Alhagi Yahya AJJ Jammeh. Phd, GCORG, GMRG,High Prist of the Cult of Kanili) . He seem to be either ignorant of or oblivious to the fact that people who have honorary degrees never adress themselves with dr. No does he know that giving awards of Grand commander of the order of the republic to his mother does not count since that is meaningless once he is overthrown or killed.
So to answer your question, The two leaders are just different in the degree of their sanity. Jawara was criminal and saine but jammeh is plain nuts. All of you know someone who was just like that IDI Amin. Sure jammeh has not gotten to the point of eating human flesh yet. But who knows? It might just be his next development project
|
|
|
kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2006 : 20:59:21
|
quote:
Originally posted by kajaw
The question is interesting but i am not sure people are going about this in the right way. First of all, it is difficult to choose between two evils. It is difficult for instance to choose between josehp Stalin Mao or hitlar. They were all mass murderers and at some point, when they all riched in the tens of millions of kills, the count ceesed to matter.
On Jammeh and Jawara, they have both hurt the gambian people so much that it does not matter much anymore. Many people seem to have this notion that jawara was kinder. this is far from the truth. People were arrested and yes totured and sometimes killed. Just like jammeh, many people dissapered after the 1981 coupA lot were killed by the senegalese forces without justification. The open secret is that senegalese troups under jawaras invition carried many summary executions of civilians. It is also the case that many were detained without trial and totured. To give you some names. Simon Talibo Sanneh, Kutobo Sanyang, Alieu Sallah, MAss Corr. Even Siriff Dibba (whom i dislike) was arrested at verious times without justification and totured. On press freedom, remember Sanna Sabally. Arrested and totured and charged with fictious charges and his news paper was closed. By the time he was acquitted, he was broke ass because he dared to criticize ministers in the government. Jawara also brought us this God awful military that has become for all intents and purposes a canser in our society. What do we need a military for? Who will we be defending against? Our only neighbor is senegal and no matter how big our military becomes, if they were not compelled by international laws, they could take over Gambia in a matter of days. Geographically, the country is simply indefensable against senegal. We have over three hundred miles of boarder with senegal on both sides. On corruption, Jawara started this insedious culture of corruption that has gripped gambia. We all know of the corruption of Saikou Sabally, OJ, JAwara himself (the abacha oil deals), Jawaras inlaw momodou musa njie ( it was farely well nkown that he never paid goods at the ports) I know because my brother was a customs officer). We also know that Jawara built few schools, no university no tv station, a midocer radio station, poor roads, one functional hospital to speak of. We all know also that JAwara spent millions of our money in that nonsense senegambia confideration and hirered nigerian troops for his protection and almost gave up our soverignty to senegal. We are also aware of jawaras travels. He was one of nonly a few leaders who could be away from his country for more than a month. We know that that was the case before july 22.
The only possitive i could tell about jawara was perhaps he was more educated and knew the inner workings of government better. The other thing i could say is that perhaps he did not leave us with a huge national debt compared to Jammeh. He also did not come out and verbally insult gambians and heep them with treats, nor did he insult our intellegance by lying to us about oil and other things. Jammeh for instance has told so many lies to Gambians that he definately qualifies as a pathological lier. I also never questioned Jawaras sanity. I know he was a devious crook for sure but i never thought he was criminally insane. I am convinced that is the case with Jammeh. Jammeh has Hitlars pathology. Someone who lies effortlessly someone whoes brutaility has no bounds and someone who is obsessed with self agrandizement. (His excellency colonel Dr Alhagi Yahya AJJ Jammeh. Phd, GCORG, GMRG,High Prist of the Cult of Kanili) . He seem to be either ignorant of or oblivious to the fact that people who have honorary degrees never adress themselves with dr. No does he know that giving awards of Grand commander of the order of the republic to his mother does not count since that is meaningless once he is overthrown or killed.
So to answer your question, The two leaders are just different in the degree of their sanity. Jawara was criminal and saine but jammeh is plain nuts. All of you know someone who was just like that IDI Amin. Sure jammeh has not gotten to the point of eating human flesh yet. But who knows? It might just be his next development project
It was Sana Manneh(Ticks) |
 |
|
|
kaanibaa
United Kingdom
1169 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2006 : 10:49:43
|
| Unless we want to justify the july 1981 attempted putsch of Kukoie Samba Sanyang we cannot hundred percent blame Jawara for the alleged acts herein referred to by a postee. After that infamous affair there was a lot of confusion ,yes some people suffered tortures but remember a lot of people lost their lives; for some simply because they bleached their skin (Heeshall) others for being at a place and time when bandits were either looting or causing rampant mayhem. Yes an army was created but at that point in time; confusion was rife and ideas were spread that instead of having senegalese soldiers we should have our own forgetting or ignorant may be of; the risks of an eventual coup d etat as we now have experienced. All or most democarcies do have armies but they were meant to safeguard national security not jeopardise or subject unarmed civilians to dastardly acts of sabotage and extra judicial killings and the usurpation of the seats of government. I therefore cannot agree that Jawara and Jammeh are comparable. One can say that he or she does not like Jawara and that was done without fear of being shot jailed or made redundant if a civil servant , whereas now this is rampant. The faults of the Jawara regime can best be catergorised as aunique sytem of government for the people as we had maslaha etc some critised that as corruption but friends it was better for us to solve our problems by reconcilation than by vendetta/vigillantism as is now seen doing the rounds at home. Every one on this forum has apoint of view at times we see eye to eye on some issues and differ on others I hope and pray that the atmostphere of tolerance that prevails here translates to what would happen for our people back home so that they can have their political rallies calleach other challo ,ngonja and laugh at the end of the day. I remember being in a family were mums support one party and dady another and it did not cause any rancour or acrimony . Now!!!! friends you have to make sure that your right hand does not know wthat your left hand is doing. I sympathise however with some comments about people who suffered torture during Jawaras rule but for thirty years of democratic governance we can be proud to say that torture was not rampant as it is now. Lee moy dega. |
|
|
|
patrick
Gambia
22 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2006 : 15:06:38
|
Guys, this to my opinion, is a very interesting topic with no specific answer. All depends on what perspective you look at it. In my opinion, Jawara had his own odds and buts which no doubt resulted us into the current regime. But in the other side of the coin, however, despite all the oughts in the Jawara regime, I think Jammeh's regime could be seen to be worst especially when you take the economy into consideration. The country is performing extremely badly under the current regime, with no or very little economic growth.
Human rights in the other hand is also worst in the Jammeh regime. with a lot of human rights abuses including the endless killings and jailings of oponents without proper cause of the law.
Guys my opinion.
Thanks
|
pk2 |
|
|
|
kajaw
70 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2006 : 18:28:54
|
Contrary to what my friend sade above, the jawara regeme was corrupt to the core. Kukois failed coup should have been a wake up call for jawara. He should have found in him some desency to step down after so many people were killed. Sure kukoi was responsible for his actions, but so was JAwara. First, he lead the country through fifteen years of ignorance. Some of you think those were years of prosperity. I do not buy that argument. In fact, the despair we are facing now were grown then. I am from badibu and we often were victims of the wrat of the PPP regeme. The few clinics we had were undrefunded, our schools were underfunder and poorly staffed. Numerous people from my town were constantly harashed arrested and imprisoned just because they happen to support the NCP. After the failed coup attempt of 1981 some people from my town were arrested and jailed for sometime three years without trial. Contrary to what my friend thinks not all those who were killed were looters, not all of them were killed by bandits. Many were killed by the senegalese some sumarely executed and all of them buried in mass graves. It is a fact that some members of the Field force stationed in bakau were arrested by the senegalese forces lined up and shot. Therse were war crimed commited against gambians at the bidding of Jawara. So Jawara and his goon are also had blood on their hands. Some of you might remember mustafa danso. He was a cop killer and during the coup, he was released along with other prisoners. After the coup, he was arrested again. Never received a fair trial. He was sentenced by a kangaroo court and executed at mile 2. Perhaps the only gambian to have been executed from independance up to that time. The fact is that we were suposed to be a country of laws then. What ever he did, he deserved a fair trial.
On jammeh. It is no secrit that jammeh is a lier, a thief, and a murderer. As far as i am concerned, just like Saddam is facing trial now, when Jammeh is finally arrested, he should face trial for the killings of the student demonstrators which he ordered. He should also be invistigated for these so called coups and the dissaperances that usually follow them. We already have the testimony of Ebou Jallow that Yankuba Touray and the Sinagthe brothers killed Koro, they should also face justice. Yes give them a fair trial and if they are found guilty execute them as an example to future dictators. This will eventually happen and i only hope that whoever is in power then is not lineant with these people. I also strongly belief that Jawara and his people should be invistigated thoroughly. JAwara expecially for complicity in war crimes. Remember, people are still going after the Nazys.
The problem we have in gambia and in Africa in general is that we tend to forget easily. Belief me if jammeh were to be deposed now, give him ten years and people will be willing to forgive him. Think about it, people like OJ for instance have no place in gambian politics. They were at the core of JAwara's corruption regeme. Juwara was also part of that corruption regeme. They have all been rehibilated and jawara is using government escort paid for by the tax payers after he plundered the country. So the problem is that if we are willing to overlook or forgive one sin, then why not the other and if we are willing to forgive all sins then how can we ever get justice. So please praising Jammeh or Jaware is at best misguided. They are the two examples of evil. If one of them is responsible for the death of one person and the other is responsible for the deaths of then, they are both murderers and the count does not really matter. To forgive JAwara for the atrocities of the senegalese troops whom he had invited is similar in large measure to forgiving sadam for massacaring those who revolted against him. You might say that JAwara was legitimately elected but sin when was that a license to kill? And was he in fact legitimately elected or did he buy and steal his way in to power. Those elections were a joke because the ballots were constantly stuffed before they were counted. In Badibu, the joke was that if you voted in six boxes, by the time it gets to Kerewan eight boxes were available for counting. So in my mind after 15 years, Jawaras regeme was no longer legitimate. He used government money to manipulate the elections and maintain in power. My only regret is that he was not killed in 1981 as part of the atmosphere he has created
I mentioned to you the names of four people who were held for years without trial and totured. These were human rights violations and we should not gloss over them as if they never happened. On presss freedom. There was no press freedom because there was barely a press. We had the Gambia Daily which was owned by the government. Two radio stations. The touch newspaper and the natiuon by Dickson Kolley and after 1981 Forayya. The nation was a weekly with poor circulation. The touch had their publisher arrested and harrashed and eventually forced to close and thanks to my friend who made the correction it was Sanna Manneh. Forayya's founders Were harashed and intimidated. Sam Sarr was kicked out of Gambia High school they were all arrested and harashed. Some are suggesting that people did not loose their jobs in government because they belonged to the oposition. This is not true. Atleast it is not true if you are from Badibu. Many of our educated young men were lost their jobs to the JAwara regeme. Many did not receive their promotions in the security forces simply because they were from badibu.
However, the biggest sin that jawara commited is making possible the Jammeh regeme. The Jawara regeme had become so inept and so disfunctional that even a buzzard could have overthrown him and the people would clap. I think to some of us time has made us forget |
|
|
|
kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2006 : 18:37:11
|
Kajaw
You are tpuching very important issues here. I am trying to digest them. It is alwyas good to see thing from another perspective. Good job. May be the myth that we want to create of Jawara will eventually crumble. I personally hate patronage in any form. |
|
|
|
Rainbow
Gambia
114 Posts |
|
|
Janyanfara
Tanzania
1350 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2006 : 15:54:39
|
Posted - 12 Jun 2006 : 19:25:39
by kejaw
(1)People were arrested and yes totured and sometimes killed. Just like jammeh, many people dissapered after the 1981 coupA lot were killed by the senegalese forces without justification. The open secret is that senegalese troups under jawaras invition carried many summary executions of civilians. It is also the case that many were detained without trial and totured. To give you some names.Simon Talibo Sanneh, Kutobo Sanyang,Alieu Sallah, MAss Corr. Even Siriff Dibba (whom i dislike) was arrested at verious times without justification and totured....
It is a fact that some members of the Field force stationed in bakau were arrested by the senegalese forces lined up and shot. Therse were war crimed commited against gambians at the bidding of Jawara. ....
My observations and comments,
The names in red, you may as well know acted in so many atrocities killing people and burrying them at mass graves.Do you know what happened at the fajara deport? The above lining of men at the deport was done by these rebels not Jawara(Give the devil its due)Who killed commander Njie and why? Who killed kutubo Gassama, blew up this head and raped this wife?Who raped and killed the wives of Ebou Ndow and threw their bodies in the gutters?.You see some things are not worth mentioning but for truth and reconciliation sake, I think we all ought to know the truth.
TALIBO SANNEH,KUTUBO SANYANG, MUSTAPHA DANSO and f618 DUTTY SANYANG were raping killing people at the Deport and banjul with Alieu Sallah who went mad killing people and miming bodies of women he killed just because they bleached their skin,.This man was a real devil incarnated but was he killed?No he was brought b4 a court of law ,prosecuted and sentenced accordingly.There was no court martial what so ever.I had a cousin who was in the same cell with shefiff Dibba but did you know Sheriff was given a princely treatment in prison despite he was an accused with everybodyelse.
Alieu Sallah latter became Jammeh's number one supporter and was infact taken to mecca on state funds to become an Alhagie(A stranger).
(2)Again.....Some of you might remember mustapha danso.He was as a cop killer and during the coup, he was released along with other prisoners. After the coup, he was arrested again. Never received a fair trial. He was sentenced by a kangaroo court and executed at mile 2. Perhaps the only gambian to have been executed from independance up to that time. The fact is that we were suposed to be a country of laws then. What ever he did, he deserved a fair trial.
My comments,
I don't approved of Mustapha Danso's death but remember he was a murderer serving a life sentence for murdering a senior officer Mahorney killed in cold blood.He came out again without perole and continued killing people at random.He might have been a great man but he was as well a convicted criminal.Don't you think justice for one should be justice for all?I totolly disagree with the way he was killed but I can tell you he died without the knowledge of the president infact the then minister of justice had to inform the president after his death that was the reason for his been sacked.
B4 the senegalise came in 81,how many people did these rebels killed?
Am not defendending Jawara but I have a little doubt and I think certain things should be set right here.So that our readers should be told the truth instead of misleading them.I had lost a brother and an uncle in the 81 coup and belief me many things happened on those weeks.
Again you said...
(3)....Jawara also brought us this God awful military that has become for all intents and purposes a canser in our society. What do we need a military for?
My comments
Well my brother we do need an Army.Every country does.I will agree with you if you said ours betrayed us due to Jawara's corrupt regime.But I think the old man deserved some credit for some observation of human rights at least compared to some African countries.
Again....(4)Jawaras inlaw momodou musa njie ( it was farely well nkown that he never paid goods at the ports) (I know because my brother was a customs officer).[/b
My comments
I want to ask you something ..was your brother brought b4 any commission of enquiry as to whether he neither mismanaged the state funs, misused his possition in any way or whether he acted in any corrupt way? Was he able to depend on his salary only and had never accepted bribes in anyway?
Please don't be offended We want the truth and the truth we need as we are talking about our country and every player needs to be scraped to bring the hidden to light.
(5)Posted - 13 Jun 2006 : 18:28:54
by kejaw
[b]My only regret is that he was not killed in 1981 as part of the atmosphere he has created
I presumed you mean Jawara?If so ,why on earth would you want the death of one and complain about the killing of others?My brother you contradict your self.Ibelief Jawara should also if the coup succeeded be brought b4 a compitent and fair trial and be tried according to the laws of our land.
My comments
[i]"...How ever you might hate some one, don't wish his/her death as it might be linked to yours[/i...."Machiel Davis.
Many people form your arear (Badibu) as well as any other arears, jointly contributed in Jawara days to the corruption and helped Jawara created the environment we are in today.....So you are not blameless like every one else..I give you few examples:
The likes of Sheriff Dibba(first V.president whose family benefitted immencedly in bussiness contracts like his brother Kutubo),Fansung Naffa Saho,(who diverted the busses meant for school childreen to his personal means to acquire more greedily riches)Momodou.s.k Manneh,(Who mismanaged the funds meant for the construction of the Jokadu/Badibu road).Karamo Jadama,Sambujang Jange,Alh Kenba Gassama,(were PPP heavy weights who used party morney to berged their businesses and buy more votes to remain sucking people's bloods)SAIKOU SABALLY,(I will not comment on him for he is worst.i even visited his factory in Dakar at Kaapa Yara...Till my book comes out you will see ect just to name a few.
Some of the same people are still pluging into our state coffers....Sambujang,Alh.Tumani Mintah,ect.
My brother dispite all, Some badibunkas rallied behind sheriff irrespective of the fact that it was his own family who brought his down fall.Infact after that incident Jawara gave him a ministerial position(M.O.Education).Was that not generosity?But he betrayed Jawara and formed his own party backed by his kinsmen.
I don't want to comment about APRC now until I have enough time then I will make my comments.
Thank you for your piece.Please understand that am not against you in any way infact I share many of your statements about Jawara but equally thought some are really unfair.As I have gathered some facts about the 1981 coup.I thought it right to inform our readers some basic facts about some of those alledgations you mentioned.
peace
Mankajang Janyanfara |
Edited by - Janyanfara on 15 Jun 2006 16:26:16 |
|
|
|
kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2006 : 18:47:44
|
Jayanfara
I have seen a lot of truth here. I think a lot of people from Baddibu have benefited during Jawara than any region. The Gambia Commercial Bank gave out loans to many of them when Sheriff was Finance Minister. This explains why many of them own stores at Albert Market etc. Some owned vans from CFAO.
If Kajaw wished that Jawara died in the 1981 coup why then is he not wishing the same for the others who committed genocide against women. Many died for nothing and people went about settling scores whilst others just went against women who bleached.
I do not support death penalty but there are times when i must confess some instances of serious atrocities tend to convince me that it should be applied. This is why the 1981 coup was dubbed as the COUP OF THE TAXI DRIVERS. A lot of poorly educated group who had no sense of direction as to where they want to take the country. No wonder they just ended up killing innocent civilians who had nothing to do with the government. Do you remember the famous saying: “ABDOU JOOF MUNO MA KHOKHOTAL” a trademark of the unending radio broadcast over Radio Gambia.
May be what Kajaw needs to know that overthrowing a democratically elected government is a treasonable offence. He needs to look at our constitution. No matter what, a coup cannot be justified for over throwing an elected Government. When Rawlings started to celebrate a similar occurrence in Ghana ordinary people challenged him in court that it was unconstitutional to celebrate a coup and use taxpayers’ money. They won. However, Rawlings could celebrate the coup he led against a military Government. Ghanaians are very educated and smart people. July 22 should also not be celebrated because it is a mockery to democracy. Anyway I am comparing apples with oranges. Rawlings came to power twice. In fact July 22 in the Gambia is a carbon copy of the November revolution in Ghana. The decrees, amnesties, and immunities from prosecution are modeled on Ghana’s revolution.
Corruption was very rife in the days of the PPP and i condemn it. I cannot accept the comments of Kajaw that being a Baddibunka in the PPP days meant you were automatically discriminated. On the contrary, they were even more successful than anywhere in rural Gambia. By the coup of 1994, only one telephone was working from Kaur to Fatoto. The north banks of CRD and URD were as if traveling back wards into the Stone Age. No roads. Barajalley, birthplace of Jawara was inaccessible by any standards. The Lamin Koto Passa Mass road was the first sing of civilization brought to the people of Niani and Sami, Sanu, and Wuli. Cars were most likely that of a traveling Magistrate or the Divisional Commissioner. Teachers’ salaries were two months late because places are inaccessible and the Pay Masters never wanted to undertake the journey. Baddibu was very lucky by all standards. Even the cave man would have protested.
Does any one know why the modern wharfs were constructed in the trading towns along the river? Jawara wanted to dock at Kuntaur when he was traveling on Lady Chilel and when the boat docked, the old palm wharf gave way. He could not come ashore to attend a meeting, which was a great embarrassment for him. He was put into a small raft and hoisted from Lady Chilel to be able to attend. His sister Suntu, who was at the meeting, blasted him so much that Jawara was embarrassed. Most people who attend rallies in Niani especially in Kuntaur would agree with me that whenever Suntu finishes speaking, the crowd would disperse because she was the only person who would put the needs of the people at fore. Jawara used to respond to her like: BARRING MUSU MURO TENTEH DUNNA. Which means a stab from a sister will never penetrate me. In other words, he tried to play down her attacks as though she never meant them.
It was after that incident that a project to erect modern wharfs was approved throughout the length of the river Gambia. Unfortunately Lady Chilel sank and they became white elephants to this day.
May be Kajaw is right. It looks like every region needed some serious help. But I would like him to know that Baddibu was not the only region in need of repair. Anyway he who feels it knows it. SAMMA KHATI MBOTTAH, MO KHAM BOOSI SOKH. (A toad farmer or herdsman knows which one of the toads is limping).
|
|
|
|
Moe
USA
2326 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2006 : 20:39:49
|
| Thanks Jayanfara,I just dont feel like replying to Kajaws rhetorical bullcrap.He was in Baddibu when the 1981 coup happened taking care of his dear cows. |
I am Jebel Musa better yet rock of Gibraltar,either or,still a stronghold and a Pillar commanding direction
The GPU wants Me Hunted Down for what I don't know ..... |
|
|
|
kaanibaa
United Kingdom
1169 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2006 : 00:48:40
|
| At times the bantaba as a forum can be likened to a petty market place where any person can come up with his spleen to vent against another.When that happens he or she opens the venue for others to vent their own perception of that particular matter and this is what happened in this topic. I saw from personal exposure that some of the assertions made by Kajaw begged questioning as to whether he witnessed what he asserted eg the killing of innocent people in the depot by senegalese soldiers. If he did ;that is ok,but some of us saw the senegalese intervention as manna from heaven because we saw families suffer hunger for days added to the exposure to cruel death to many youth who thought they were in a revolution. The truth must be spoken yes. Some people were arrested from badibou and other areas too, some wrongly accused because of personal hatred but others because of their movement/activity during the said event. As a lot of people were involved it took a long time for them to be screened and during that waiting period some people suffered certain indignities. Fact also was that they were arraigned before proper courts and tried . Some got away free but others were convicted. Sheriff Dibba was one of those freed. May be Kajaw with all due respect to his opinion would have Jawara leave us to be annihilated by these bandits in the likes kukoie and gang of rebels. If that is his (Kajaw's)positon on that matter I beg to differ, i do not want to live under that cloud of danger and do not wish that for any body even my worst enemy. I again wish to state here that i would take jawara any time when placed on a plate with Jammeh. Thats my choice and I stand by it but also respect the choice of those who prefer jammeh, its a free world in'it? At least for us on the Bantaba if not in th Gambia. What happened in July 1981 was terrible and many Gambian shudder when they recall those days and perhaps that is why we are so subdued now under the tyrannical regime that is in place today beacuse of the truama of that past affair who knows!!!!! |
|
|
|
kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2006 : 06:17:06
|
| Kaaniba I subscribe to your view there was lawlessness until Senegal intervened and stabilized the situation. Some of us were very lucky not to be killed. I was shot at very closed range by someone who lived together with me but wanted to eliminate me based on argument during the recklessness and looting. Its not a joke that we are still alive! |
|
|
|
Janyanfara
Tanzania
1350 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2006 : 16:09:02
|
Hi Guys,
Well I thank you all(kaanibaa,kondorong,moe,kobo and kajaw) for your comments and our brother(kajaw)'s piece about the Jawara era.I really don't want him to be misunderstood.I just felt the real truth or maybe an eye witness account of the events should be narrated.You see most of us Gambians rely on rumours a lot and it has cost us too much
All I was trying to say is that no matter what Jawara did,majority of the people were poor but also vast majority were happy and mostly free and secured(That even earned the Gambia gained the African center for Democracy and Human Right Studies which was situated then in the war turned Liberia As Africans Human Right Campaigners were looking for a suitable,peaceful and free country to move the Headquaters and they thought of the small Gambia and it was eventually moved to us.This was possible due to our Records compared to other countries in the sub-region) which is the most important compornent in the mordern free world(Except poverty).However rich you might be,if you are not free or happy,you are still sick with the urgeness of a free and a happy life.
"Freedom in poverty is better than riches in slavery..." Ahmed Saikou Touray at Guinea C.'s independance from France.
In July 22nd,thousands of Gambians were in favour of the coup despite it was undemocratic.The facts that led to its success were:
(1)Many people never forgave Jawara for the deaths of their families in the during and the aftermat of the 1981 coup.Many blamed him for the Senegalise intervention and the unwarranted arrests and imprisonment of opposition members who were accused of involvement in the 81 coup and some died while some where latter freed when no case was esterblished against them.The growing discontents led to Jawara freeing most of the alledged coupists.
(2) People were really unhappy with the Jawara regime's failures to tackle corruption which went on the increase unabaited.
(3)The Brikama saga when the then minister of local government Alh.Yaya sisay suggested that people should buy water from public taps which caused outraged.
(4) Jawara's unmoving support for Saikou Sabally(V.P. then) who many viewed as unfit for the post and massively corrupt.(Saikou led the campaign with Nyimansatta.S.Bojang, Omar Jallow,Fatou .M.Jahumpha Ceesay(then leader of the PPP female youth wing) Agi Fatou Sallah leader of the Banjul PPP women wing,Alh.Yaya Ceesay, then Hon.Ebrima.k.Sarr,Dr.M.L.Saho alh. Omar Sey ect....(I cannot name all here).But these were the people who collaborated with some party chair men accross the country to urge Jawara not to retire because they feared Bakary B. Darboe(then V.P) who was to take over from Jawara as a new brand in the party and should not lead.Thus the old pa compensated the then finance minister(Saikou who led the campaign) with a vice president post and moved B.B.Darboe to finance.
(5) There was mass disapprouval with the mass uncontrollable corrupt activities of staff at the ports,Arrea councils and at the top
Coupled with many other factors,people kind of accepted the young soldiers who gave a lot of promises some of which were:
[green](1)They had come as true sons of the land to salvage the people from the miseries of corruption.
(2) That they are truely soldiers with a difference and should not be compared wiith other military who take power to stay indefinately against the wishes of the people
(3)They they are here to give power back to the people...thus the slogan:"POWER TO THE PEOPLE"
(4)They would only be there for a few months or at least a year or so to draft a framework to transition and they would return to the barracks.
(5) That they had come because they feel leaders stay too long in power thus allowing corruption to take root and they would want a framework which would allow only a two term presidency.
(6)That there would be no more corruption,mismanagements of public funds(the likes of the Brikama Arear Council saga where Sajo Sanneh(errandboy would forge peole's signature to corrupt the state off millions of dalasis),Alhagie Yaya sisay with 30 compounds while others don't have a single house,Aboubakr Denton's corrupt affairs ect) would be a thing of the past and would never happened again.
These promises made people thought:"wait a minute,this soldiers may be truely soldiers with a difference.Maybe we will have a new president every ten years instead of oneman rule for thirty years or so.Come-on lets help them so that we achieve true lasting democracy"
But,but,but...But Alas little did we know.....oh God.
...what are we seing right now, is like the 15th night moon.No one can avoid seing it even if you close your eyes.
We all made a mistake.So we all must pay.Only ourselves can help ourselves out of it.No other person can.
peace
Mankajang Janyanrara |
Edited by - Janyanfara on 16 Jun 2006 16:37:06 |
|
|
|
njucks
Gambia
1131 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2006 : 19:01:40
|
kobo you were shot at??
what happened to the person who tried to kill you when it was all over? |
|
|
|
kajaw
70 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2006 : 22:47:51
|
I thank brother Janyanfara for his well reasoned remarks. There are a few things i would like to address right away. First, i will not be involved in personal attacks with anybody. It simply does not advance the debate. I am proud of who i am and where i am from and whenever i can, i like to go to badibu and tend to cattle. However, during that coup, i was not so fortunate. I was at my brothers place in Banjul was not old enough to understand the full implications of what was happening but yes i was in banjul. As to my brother and whethtr he in fact was corrupt. First of all, he was not brought before any government inquiry. Do i think he was corrupt. Without basing it on any facts, i can only say that i highly suspected that he was in fact involved in corrupt practices and i still think him and his co-workers should be invistigated and if found guilty puniushed like everyone else. I have never seen him take a bribe personally but just judging by his life stile i do think he was not living within what his salary could provide. I hope this is not translated to mean that i deslike my brother. It simply means that i am obliged to be truthful and i know my brother do read some of these forums.
On Talibo Sanneh alieu Sallah mass corr. They may well have been murderers but that does not mean that they do not deserve to be brought befoere a competent court. They were held for years without trial contrary to any resonable form of jurisprudence. They were totured and that is also something that some of them said openly after their release. In fact, for a while after his release Alieu Sallah had difficulty walking. If any of you want to know what i think of the likes of alieu Sallah i hope this makes it clearer. I belife that if they are indeed guilty of what they are said to have done, they should never have been released. They should be tried under a free and impartial court and punished accordingly. Unlike some of you, i happen to surpport the death penelty. If in fact Alieu sallah is guilty of what he was accused of and the law mandates a death penelty and he is executed, i will not loose sleep over his death the same applies to Mustafa Danso and the rest of them. However, to absolve Jawara of the coup is short sighted in my openion. He created the environment that made all of that including the coup possible and therefor he is responsible as well as is kukoi. The invition of troops under international law is allowed by a government to restore order as is happening right now in Eastemore. However, it does not excuse atrocities being commited by those troops. Today Australia is intervening in Eastemore at the invitation of the government. Supose they started executing temorese citizens, international law dectates that they should be brought to justice. This was not done with the senegalese . In fact they went about confecating all the looted items from private homes just to take the loot away to senegal with them. So my brother Janyanfara. We agree more than you might think.
On Jawara and whether he should have died in the incident. You are right it was bad judgement on my part to say that and i was wrong. In fact, he too do deserve his day in court.
On Badibu. I wish that some of you would go back and carefully read my statements because they were never intended to mean that we had a monopoly on suffering no does it mean that Badibunkas were excluded from the regeme. In fact, there were proment badibunkas who perticipated actively in the atrocities of the regeme. All i was doing was giving you an example where people were deprived of their rights simply because they happened to belong to a different political entity. I personally did not care for NCP or Dibba. I always thought he was an opportunist and very much as currupt as those whom he was trying to uproot. Yet i also belief that he did not deserve to be harashed the way he had been. |
|
|
|
kajaw
70 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2006 : 23:27:17
|
I would also like to add that my friend seem to assume that Alieu sallah and them carried out the atrocities they were accused of but seem to be willing to reject the notion that the Senegalese troops carried out some of the atrocities. I am saying that we were not direct witnesses to these acts and can only submit to what we were told by sources we deem to be reliable. This is never enough and is never a credible subsitute to a free fair and impartial inquiry. What i object to is that many people seem to have this notion that Jawara was a sympatatic person and his only problem was corruption. I think this view is misguided. It is part of jawaras propaganda structure so was the "Gambia no problem" slogan. I clearely stated that danso was a cop killer but that does not mean that he should be subject to a kangaroo court and executed. There is no other way of describing a court if a cour is not open to the public, the evidence is not properly collected and presented and that was in fact how danso's case was carried out. I do not object to the death penelty and if in fact Danso was found guilty of murder and the law ask for a death penelty, i will not loose sleep over his execution. All i say is that he deserved a fair trial and not a trial of retribution.
On Democracy:
To often we use the term democracy without stopping first and asking ourselves what the term means to us. First of all, the notion that Jawara was democratically elected in my mind is redeculous. So to all dear readers, what does democracy mena to you? Does it mean that one tries to be elected once and rule forever by seezing all levers of power? Can the Jawara government be thought to be democratically elected when it is known that there was massive fraud in the electoral process where from the start of campaining, the PPP would draw all the money they need to buy vehicles from the government. Where the president has absolute monopoly over the air waves. Where vote buying is rampant. I had a friend who drove PPP Landrover pickups and he was a government employee collecting salaries from government and employed by the PMO. I also personally witnessed a PPP vehicle come to my village at the Alkalo's house on the eve of an election to buy votes and it was no secret in plain daylight. I know people who sold their votes and their voters cards were collected at the alkalo's house till after the elections. So to say that JAwara was democratically elected and therefor immune to being removed from power is like saying today that Jammeh is democratically elected and therefor should remain in power in perpetuity. It is a flawed argument. It is the same kind of argument that kept the liekes of Hitlar and Mobutu in power. It is the same argument that is keeping Jammeh and Mugabi in power and as long as we continue to think that way, we will loose our way. Jammeh could clame that he is being elected by the gambian people but i know of few gambians who will belief that. We are all aware of the fact taht every election, hords of people cross from cassamance to vote in our elections. We als know that the ruling party will always maintain a majority in parliament because Jammeh can nominate nine. We know that he gets his campaign money from government unfettered. Even i could be elected president if you give me the central bank unfettered. If i could buy all the equipment i need from government money, have monopoly over the air waves, harash independant media out of existance. Murder or imprison desenting openion and prevent supporters of the oposotion from being gainfully employed. Even Homma Simson could be elected president under those circumstances and to call it democratic, free or fair is baffling.
|
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
| Bantaba in Cyberspace |
© 2005-2024 Nijii |
|
|
|
Topic Locked
