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Momodou
Denmark
11512 Posts |
 Posted - 17 Jun 2021 : 21:57:14
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GAMBIA-L Digest 7
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) a bit of news
by <JDG.L.LANGE.LWCLK@CO.HENNEPIN.MN.US>
2) Draft Constitution released
by Amadou Scattred Janneh <AJANNEH@pstcc.cc.tn.us>
3) Draft Constitution Released
by Amadou Scattred Janneh <AJANNEH@pstcc.cc.tn.us>
4) Re: Draft Constitution released
by Gabriel Ndow <gndow@auc.edu>
5) Re: Draft Constitution released
by Amadou Scattred Janneh <AJANNEH@pstcc.cc.tn.us>
6) Re: Draft Constitution released
by Amadou Scattred Janneh <AJANNEH@pstcc.cc.tn.us>
7) Introduction
by Oumar Ndongo <ondongo@benfranklin.hnet.uci.edu>
8) Re: Introduction
by "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu>
9) Greetings!!
by Katim S. Touray <touray@hope.soils.wisc.edu>
10) Ooops!!
by Katim S. Touray <touray@hope.soils.wisc.edu>
11) Re: multiple of issues
by sarian@osmosys.incog.com (Sarian Loum)
12)
by Amadou Scattred Janneh <AJANNEH@pstcc.cc.tn.us>
13) New email addresses
by "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu>
14) Forwarded from Malandin
by "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu>
15) Forwarded from Malanding
by "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu>
16) Embassy in the "dark"
by Amadou Scattred Janneh <AJANNEH@pstcc.cc.tn.us>
17) Forwarded from Omar Njie
by "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu>
18) Embassy in the "dark"
by <JDG.L.LANGE.LWCLK@CO.HENNEPIN.MN.US>
19) Re: Embassy in the "dark"
by Gabriel Ndow <gndow@auc.edu>
20) Re: Forwarded from Malanding
by sarian@osmosys.incog.com (Sarian Loum)
21) Re: Embassy in the "dark"
by <JDG.L.LANGE.LWCLK@CO.HENNEPIN.MN.US>
22) Different email addresses
by "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu>
23) Re: New email addresses
by onjie@gemini.nlu.edu
24) contribution to the discussion on the Confederation
by Oumar Ndongo <ondongo@benfranklin.hnet.uci.edu>
25) Stuff ...
by Katim S. Touray <touray@hope.soils.wisc.edu>
26) Stuff ...
by <JDG.L.LANGE.LWCLK@CO.HENNEPIN.MN.US>
27) Re: Forwarded from Malanding
by "Roddie L. Cole" <rcole@ced.berkeley.edu>
28) Re: contribution to the discussion on the Confederation
by "Roddie L. Cole" <rcole@ced.berkeley.edu>
29) Newspaper Publication Suspended
by Amadou Scattred Janneh <AJANNEH@pstcc.cc.tn.us>
30) Re: Stuff ...
by onjie@gemini.nlu.edu
31) Re: Stuff ...
by <JDG.L.LANGE.LWCLK@CO.HENNEPIN.MN.US>
32) Error messages, the Gambian Independent press, and Insults ...
by Katim S. Touray <touray@hope.soils.wisc.edu>
33) checking if forwarded message is through!
by Oumar Ndongo <ondongo@benfranklin.hnet.uci.edu>
34) Re: Stuff ...
by L Konteh <L.Konteh-95@student.lut.ac.uk>
35) Let's Move On
by Amadou Scattred Janneh <AJANNEH@pstcc.cc.tn.us>
36) Draft Constitution?
by Amadou Scattred Janneh <AJANNEH@pstcc.cc.tn.us>
37) Right to Free Speech
by <JDG.L.LANGE.LWCLK@CO.HENNEPIN.MN.US>
38) Let's Move On
by <JDG.L.LANGE.LWCLK@CO.HENNEPIN.MN.US>
39) Re: Let's Move On
by Amadou Scattred Janneh <AJANNEH@pstcc.cc.tn.us>
40) Forward of Professor Ndongo's contribution to Senegambia confederation.
by "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu>
41) democratic structures
by ABDOU <at137@columbia.edu>
42) PHEW! PHEW!
by <JDG.L.LANGE.LWCLK@CO.HENNEPIN.MN.US>
43) Gambia court convicts women over skin-bleaching (fwd)
by "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu>
44) Hi there!
by Katim S. Touray <touray@hope.soils.wisc.edu>
45) Re:Recruitment
by L Konteh <L.Konteh-95@student.lut.ac.uk>
46) New Members
by Amadou Scattred Janneh <AJANNEH@pstcc.cc.tn.us>
47) Re:Recruitment
by "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu>
48) What's the use of a new constitution?
by Oumar Ndongo <ondongo@benfranklin.hnet.uci.edu>
49) Forward of Malanding's response to Prof Ndongo
by "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu>
50) Follow up response to Prof Ndongo
by "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu>
51) Re: Follow up response to Prof Ndongo
by binta@iuj.ac.jp
52) Re: Follow up response to Prof Ndongo
by "Roddie L. Cole" <rcole@ced.berkeley.edu>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 96 11:51:47 CST
From: <JDG.L.LANGE.LWCLK@CO.HENNEPIN.MN.US>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: a bit of news
Message-ID: <9603111752.AA13344@mx5.u.washington.edu>
gambia-l:
According to AFP new service, March 9, 1996:
1) The new constitution has been released
2) Voting age has been reduced to 18 yrs. from 21 yrs.
3) Military conscription for "young people" is now mandatory.
4) The new constituion forsees a separation of powers (but,
the president, vp, and ministers are acountable to parliament which
can "use a censure vote to dismiss or penalise them.")
5) The report also indicates the elections are on track for July.
Does anyone have access to anyone who can download a copy of the whole
document(the constitution) on the internet? Can the Gambia-l member(s) in the
Gambia help provide the rest of us with a copy of the document?
Morro.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 13:04:35 -0500 (EST)
From: Amadou Scattred Janneh <AJANNEH@pstcc.cc.tn.us>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Draft Constitution released
Message-ID: <01I27OWUB4LU000EOU@PSTCC6.PSTCC.CC.TN.US>
I have mailed a PANA (Pan-African News Agency) story on the release of the
Gambia's draft constitution. You can access PANA at
http://www.afnews.org/ans
Peace!
Amadou
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 13:11:57 -0500 (EST)
From: Amadou Scattred Janneh <AJANNEH@pstcc.cc.tn.us>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Draft Constitution Released
Message-ID: <01I27P97FDR2000EOU@PSTCC6.PSTCC.CC.TN.US>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 15:32:34 -0500
From: Gabriel Ndow <gndow@auc.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Draft Constitution released
Message-ID: <199603112032.PAA19385@auc.edu>
The article on the draft constitution is interesting although like Morro,
having a copy of the draft would be greatly beneficial. I did not see any
mention of mandatoy conscription of young boys into the army in the article.
While I await the full draft I just want to go on record to say that it is a
foolish idea and a complete waste of time to send young boys to join the army!
What are they going to do there? Prepare to defend the country? What a joke.
Perhaps a suggestion to the brilliant minds that wrote this into the draft
(probably coerced) (IF this business about mandatory conscription is true) -
why not conscript young boys AND girls in SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY projects
relevant to Gambia's development. As the saying goes, A MIND IS A TERRIBLE THING TO WASTE!!! GUNS! GUNS! GUNS!
Oh, by the way, there is also an article in PANA on the recently held conference
on the 10th anniversary of the death of Cheikh Anta Diop in Senegal. The artile is entitled "A Federated Africa: The Continent's Unfinished Business". Check it out.
LatJor.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 19:47:37 -0500 (EST)
From: Amadou Scattred Janneh <AJANNEH@pstcc.cc.tn.us>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Draft Constitution released
Message-ID: <01I28302X5SM000J10@PSTCC6.PSTCC.CC.TN.US>
I can't agree more with LatJor! In fact, I am in favour of immediately
dismantling the army as soon as a truly civilian, democratic administration
assumes the helm. Get the soldiers access to vocational training; some
could even be retrained to serve in some form of national guard with a
vastly decentralized authority and structure.
Peace!
Amadou.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 19:52:27 -0500 (EST)
From: Amadou Scattred Janneh <AJANNEH@pstcc.cc.tn.us>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Draft Constitution released
Message-ID: <01I28362I8WI000J10@PSTCC6.PSTCC.CC.TN.US>
Story available at the following address:
http://www.afnews.org/ans
Morro: I hope you can access this.
Amadou
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 17:05:37 -0800 (PST)
From: Oumar Ndongo <ondongo@benfranklin.hnet.uci.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Introduction
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.960311161256.9126A-100000@benfranklin.hnet.uci.edu>
Dear friends,
Thank you for giving me the possibility to feel less isolated.I
am Oumar Ndongo from Senegal.I am currently a Fulbright Senior scholar at
the University of California,Irvine campus working on "The American
Response to the Vietnam War in Fiction and Movies".My stay is due to
finish this July and then, i go back to Senegal to Cheikh Anta Diop
University where i teach American Literature and Civilization.I am an
Associate professor.
I am interested in hitory and social changes in the West African
area in general, in the Senegambia, in particular.Before coming to the
University, I taught English in secondary schools.In 1981,I left the
ministry of National Education for the Ministry of The Armed Forces to
serve as coordinator of studies in the newly created regular army
officers'training school in Thies.I brought the civilian touch by
developing a strong culture-oriented training program. I spent 11 years
in that institution.In the meantime i defended a doctorat de troisieme
cycle on American literature examinant warfare contexts in fiction.
I have visited the Gambia on several occasions.First ,as a
student of English, i did the trip with friends three times. Then as a
teacher at Lycee Malick Sy -Thies, i took an important delegation of
staff and students to Saint Augustine's High School.This left me with
undying memories.Finally, as coordinator at ENOA,I took our officer
cadets regularly to visit the confederal battalion and the Gambia.I felt
the relationships deteriorating and was not surprised of the pull back.I
had also in some of the classes we trained around 6 officers who joined
the Gambian forces.
I am interested in sharing with you on any topic of interest to
our communities also to our group as concerned with the great changes
when mentalities are not ready to take them.I 'll make a tautology but
my opinion is my opinion.I'll give honest views which will reflect my
shortcomings.
If some of you are interested i'll talk to you about the West
African Research Center in Dakar,a project to cover West Africa, between
American and West African Scholars who want to exchange on West Africa.
Today, it is quite a visible institution in Senegal and has to grow fast
to other countries.For me the Gambia must be any easy step.I have worked
in that center since its creation in 1992 and was able to spend 6 weeks
in Hyderabad in India to see how to run a research center.Since money
comes from the Americans the Director of the center is an American
citizen and i work as programs officer.One of its objectives is to
provide researchers with a network like the internet for easy access to
information from every where.
Hope to receive feeback from you.I promise to contribute whenever possible.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 17:37:02 -0800 (PST)
From: "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu>
To: Oumar Ndongo <ondongo@benfranklin.hnet.uci.edu>
Cc: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Introduction
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.91l.960311172947.4850G-100000@saul2.u.washington.edu>
I want to take this opportunity to welcome Professor Omar Ndongo to
Gambia-l and we are excited to have him on board as he will add a new
perspective to this forum.
During the past few weeks, we discussed the Senegambian Confederation
and its eventual demise and disintegration and lots of reasons were given
by different people. I am interested to hear a Senegalese perspective as
to why things did not work out. If Professor Ndongo is interested, I can
forward to him some past discussions on that topic, so that he can review
what has already been said about it.
Thanks
Tony
========================================================================
Anthony W Loum tloum@u.washington.edu
Supervisor, Business Administration Library 206-543-4360 voice
100 Balmer Hall 206-685-9392 fax
University of Washington
Box 353200
Seattle, Wa.98195-3200
=========================================================================
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 96 21:19:53 CST
From: Katim S. Touray <touray@hope.soils.wisc.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Greetings!!
Message-ID: <9603120319.AA01313@hope.soils.wisc.edu>
Hi folks,
i've been following discussions on the list, but my hectic schedule has prevented me from
replying right away.
let me say that i've been hearing a couple from and about The Gambia on various programs
on BBCs' African service, namely 'Focus on Africa', and 'Network Africa'. last week, for
example, i heard a report to the effect that all owners of private newspapers were summoned
to court by the govt. to answer charges of failing to comply with a 1944 (yep, 1944) law
which stipulates that press owners should register their papers annually. which is fine.
according to the report though, press owners were also supposed to post a D100,000 (one
hundred thousand Dalasis) bond by Friday (that's last weeks Friday), or face closure.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 96 21:43:05 CST
From: Katim S. Touray <touray@hope.soils.wisc.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Ooops!!
Message-ID: <9603120343.AA01332@hope.soils.wisc.edu>
Hi folks,
sorry for the mixup. my last mail got cut up by some errant keystrokes. anyway
as i was saying ...
the editor of the 'Daily Observer' mentioned in an interview on 'Focus on
Africa' this afternoon that they had all posted the D100,000 bonds that were
to be posted. however, the govt. (specifically the Ministry of Justice) did
not want to accept the bonds. the net effect of this is that there were
no independent papers published in The Gambia today. and God knows for how
long this news blackout is going to continue. it is unfortunate that the
AFPRC govt. is throwing up all kinds of obstacles in the way of the media
in their efforts to discharge their duties to the country. this is especially
sad in light of the fact that the transition program calls for ample, level-
headed discussion of the issues the country faces.
i also listened to a 30-min special on The Gambia on the BBC's African
service early this past Saturday. they had a very interesting debate between
Pap Che Yassin Secka, Sara Janha (the former Secretary General), and a
Ghanian journalist who lived in The Gambia, and wrote a book about the
july '94 coup. it was very interesting to listen to especially because
of the diverse backgrounds of the participants. Mr. Secka, has an ax to
grind with Jawara, Mr. Janha had a credibility problem, having been so
intimate with the Jawara govt., and the Ghanaian looking at all this from
a slightly removed perspective. i found it particularly worrying that in
the debate about the possibility of Captain Jammeh running for office, it
seemed that it was up to the guy to decide. i say: the constitution should
explicitly say that anyone under 40 or 45 years of age should not run for the
office of the President. period. that way, Captain Jammeh doesn't have to
decide, the constitution does.
speaking of the constitution, i've said, and i'll say again, i think it was
an absolute waste of money to embark on a constitution re-writing excercise.
the fact of the matter is that the AFPRC desperately needed something thing
to hold on to as reason for them overthrow Jawara. so when this great idea
of fixing the constitution came up, they threw themselves at it with relish.
ofcourse, the constitution had long since been revoked by them. a constitution
in whose eyes these guys were criminals. imagine a thief offering to fix your
windows or locks for you. you get the picture?
anyway, i'm of the opinion that now's the time to stay on top of things. which
brings me to the issue, again, of subscriptions to the list. like i said, i've
said before, i have no qualms about anyone subscribing to the list. we have to
have a way of continuing the dialogue, and i think it would be great if these
guys, through their representatives know for a fact that there are people out
there who are pissed at what they are doing.
i gotta be running in a minute here. i'll obviously be looking forward to your
replies, and we can pick up the debates from there on. but before i go, i'd
like to welcome brother Ndongo to the list, and wish him a valuable experience.
hey, have a great weekend everyone,
Katim
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 19:37:02 -0800
From: sarian@osmosys.incog.com (Sarian Loum)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: multiple of issues
Message-ID: <199603120337.TAA08757@thesky.incog.com>
Hello,
I honestly doubt Lamin's statement about being informally told what the
central authorities think about us and about the way they are doing
things at home. One think we keep forgetting is that the embassy works
for the military guys and so, owe their allegiance to them and not what
we members think or feel about how the government is operating. After
all they are appointed by the kakhi boys and for fear of being recalled
and or reprimanded we may not get the whole truth from them. It would
seem obvious that they would want to protect their jobs and look out
for oneself.
I also think we're forgetting that African democracy doesn't work quite
the same as America or Europe. I think Jawarra did a heck of a job of
fooling the outside world that Democracy prevailed in Gambia, but we
know better than that because one could not publicly criticized the
Jawara regime and got away with it. That in my opinion is not true
democracy, and Gambia clearly lacked freedom of speech for fear that
government will go after you and or someone dear to your heart. I
don't condone military rule but it was high time somebody put an end to
this suffering/injustice Gambians went thru for over 32 years and are
still going thru. I still stand by my point that we were better off
during colonialism because quite frankly I don't know what we've gained
from being an independent nation. We've grown from bad to worse e.g.
lack of health facilities, education, agric. infrastructure,
electricity, water etc.
As far as the military boys are concerned they have overstayed their
welcome, they would have been pronounced heros if they had long since
return the country to civilian rule. But Jammeh craves power just like
any other African head of state and so would be really surprised if he
voluntarily returns to farming or go back to the barracks. Africans
love power and so to give it up willingly without any struggle is
something I yet have to see. Nonetheless we should give him some
credit for atleast cleaning up a little bit and reclaiming some of the
countrys assets. Whether they'll be or are already guilty of the same
crime the Jawarra regime is accused of is something to closely monitor,
especially when we don't know where the foreign aid is coming from and
how much (from God) is something to be highly suspicious of. Gambians
have a right to know where and how much aid is coming into the country
and a broadcast of how these funds are disbursed or for what projects they
are used against. Ok enough rambling, getting late.
Sarian
> From GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu Sat Mar 9 23:03 PST 1996
> Date: Sun, 10 Mar 1996 15:57:55
> From: binta@iuj.ac.jp
> To: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: multiple of issues
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN
>
> Hi all,
>
> Abdou's concerns may be a bit on the high side, but I think there is
> something we can learn from what he wrote. The list should be made
> open to as many people as possible. However, the list should not be
> taken for granted and used as a one-way communication medium like the
> radio or TV. On the contrary, all members should try and contribute to
> the discussions. What can we think of a member who has not even
> introduced him/herself? Are those people interested in discourse, or
> do they intend to be mere readers.
>
> I want to suggest that,if possible, every potential member must first
> send an intro to the subscription managers before he can be added to
> the list. This suggestion did not spring out of fear, rather it will
> act as a true indication of one's intentions to join the group as a
> discussant and not only a reader. This is a participative discussion
> group for all to share ideas and opinions.
>
> Let us permit the embassy to join the group. In this way we may be
> able to know, informally though, what the central authorities think
> about us and about the way they are doing things at home.
>
> The Gambia in arrears? Is it very surprising to us? It does not
> surprise me that much. Let us reorder our priorities!
>
> Lamin Drammeh.
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 08:13:03 -0500 (EST)
From: Amadou Scattred Janneh <AJANNEH@pstcc.cc.tn.us>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
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From: Amadou Scattred Janneh <AJANNEH@pstcc.cc.tn.us>
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Panafrican News Agency
News Stories | Environment | Economics | Science and Health | Sports |
Africa Press Review
11 MAR 96 - GAMBIA-CONSTITUTION
GAMBIA GETS NEW DRAFT CONSTITITION
From Ebrima Sagnia; PANA Correspondent
BANJUL, Gambia (PANA) - Gambia has published a draft constitution
which gives supremacy to the National Assembly.
Reporting on the document Monday, the Gambia News Agency, GAMNA, said
the assembly will be "the supreme instrument of the will of the
people."
Under the draft, to be adopted by a referendum, the assembly will be
vested with powers to censure the President, Vice-President and
Secretaries of State -- the proposed new title for ministers.
The draft is the outcome of a review of the country's 1970
constitution by a commission appointed by Capt. Yahya Jammeh's Armed
Forces Provitional Ruling Council (AFPRC) on April 10, 1995.
Jammeh came to power on July 22, 1994, after toppling the former
President Dawda Kairaba Jawara, who had ruled the West African state
for 30 years.
According to the new draft, the House will also have the authority to
dismiss the leaders from office.
The main provisions of the draft were published last Friday by the
AFPRC.
The draft reaffirms fundamental rights and freedoms and extends them
to include those of women, children and the disabled.
It provides for universal adult suffrage in a multiparty system and
lowers the voting age from 21 to 18.
The document envisages the creation an Independent Electoral
Commission vested with the responsibility for administration,
supervision and monitoring of elections as well as the activities of
political parties.
Under the new constitution, the powers of the executive, legislature
and judiciary are to be separated.
It empowers the president to appoint the secretaries of state.
However, the secretaries of state cannot be members of the national
assembly.
After an 18-month transition period, the judiciary will be "freed from
the appellate jurisdiction of the Privy Council in England," says the
draft.
It also envisages the expansion of the country's Islamic Court to a
panel of three judges (Cadis) qualified in Sharia law, with a review
or appellate panel consisting of five persons well schooled in the
Sharia law.
"In addition, a litigant in the Cadi's Court will be entitled to
representation by a person qualified in Sharia Law," says the draft
constitution.
It envisages the institution of an Ombudsman "to guard against
maladministration, mismanagement and discriminatory practices in any
government department, authority or other public body."
There will also be a new special court "to guard against the
recurrence of the corruption of the past 30 years by giving it the
powers and effective procedures utilised in the Armed Forces
Provisional Ruling Council Commissions."
The commissions of enquiry set up by Capt. Yahya Jammeh's regime have
been retained under the new draft's basic law.
Their work will be "to continue and complete surgery on the cankerworm
of political and bureaucratic corruption and graft implanted by the
decadent PPP regime and its cohorts into the public life of this
beloved country."
The draft document also affirms and guarantees the independence of the
press and other information media.
In a press release broadcast on national radio on Friday, the AFPRC
said it "and all members of cabinet have unanimously agreed on the
provisions of the constitution."
It said the draft constitution will "now be released to the Gambian
people for further discussion and adoption in a referendum which will
take place at a date which shall be made public."
_________________________________________________________________
AFRICA NEWS Online The NandO Times
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 09:06:38 -0800 (PST)
From: "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu>
To: Gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: New email addresses
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.91l.960312085137.18743B-100000@saul7.u.washington.edu>
Hi Everybody,
Katim and myself have been receiving error messages of rejected postings
by the list from members writing with new email addresses that is
different from the one that they are currently subscribed under in Gambia-l.
Yesterday, a posting from Omar Njie was rejected and Malanding's latest
two contributions resulted in error messages. The reasons was that they
were using different email addresses from the one in Gambia-l. I have
forwarded Omar's message yesterday but I doubt whether it went through
the list because I did not receive a copy of it. So, Omar if you can
retrieve that message from your sent mail file and repost it with your
the other address in Gambia-l, it will be appreciated. You made some good
points that refuted Sammy's allegation about the fairness of elections in
The Gambia by pointing out the 1982 elections at Mbollet Ba. I will
refoward Malanding's latest.
Anyway, the point is that if you change your email address from
what is now in Gambia-l, you have to tell the subscription managers know so
that they will update it with the new one. In that way, we will prevent
the error messages and the postings getting through to everyone. Or if
you want to operate with more than one address, again you have to inform
the subscription managers to add the new ones also.
Thanks
Tony
========================================================================
Anthony W Loum tloum@u.washington.edu
Supervisor, Business Administration Library 206-543-4360 voice
100 Balmer Hall 206-685-9392 fax
University of Washington
Box 353200
Seattle, Wa.98195-3200
=========================================================================
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 10:00:43 -0800 (PST)
From: "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu>
To: Gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Forwarded from Malandin
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.91l.960312095533.22652D-100000@saul5.u.washington.edu>
I do not think that forwarded error messages are getting through to the
list. So I am trying it on a different way. This is written by Malanding.
Thanks
Tony
I am very much amused by the newly found alliance between Mr Secka
and Mr Janha.
On the other side of the story, Katim I do not believe that there
should me any such thing as age limit to bar anyone from taking
office.Young people can be as effective as old ones if the desire to
do well is there. We have witnessed 70 year-old Jawara and his
Cabinet of abve 50s lead the country astray.
What the constitution should have and I am sure it missed that is
nobody with criminal record (especially one against the state) should
be allowed to participate in public life. That is what creates
discipline in the society. If everyone see that they will be honoured
and rewarded when they break the law everybody will break the law.
The same goes back to the behaviour of the Jawara regime. Misuse of
public funds, indescent behavior by public officers (fathers to many
kids by many teenage mother and many more) were rewarded with
promotions and easy retirements, led to an all-said-and done proverb
that Sammy talked about.
Rewarding criminals ie those who use force to put themselves in power
and suspend the constitution by accepting the changes they made to
the constitution and even allowing them to participate in elections
would only tempt other potential criminals on the sideline.
If we want to ensure no further coupes, this socalled revision of the
constitution should not be recognized. May be extreme but I am yet to
be convinced by anyone the need to revised the constitution.
Bye now.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 10:04:18 -0800 (PST)
From: "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu>
To: Gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Forwarded from Malanding
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.91l.960312100129.17224A-100000@saul5.u.washington.edu>
From Malanding
Sarian, You have said dome valid piont about being better off in
colonial days than now. My thought about that is being better off in
colonial times does not make colonialism better than self rule.
To Lamin and other concern about official monitoring, we should be
aware that we are not here to impress anybody. In order to impress
the government you have to join them. Many members of this list
atleast personally do not share the same view as the military boys.
As a result I am and will be critical of them. In my heart I am doing
what is good for the country and not what is good for the military
boys or myself.
Anyway have a good day
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 13:11:33 -0500 (EST)
From: Amadou Scattred Janneh <AJANNEH@pstcc.cc.tn.us>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Embassy in the "dark"
Message-ID: <01I293FQJNMQ000HHN@PSTCC6.PSTCC.CC.TN.US>
Fellows:
I found it quite amazing that even the Gambian Embassy in the US is not
aware of the release of the draft constitution. I asked Tombong Saidy
for a copy so that I can distribute it to the list and to enable us to
better analyse the document. He has just now tried to reach Pap
Cheyassin Secka to see if he can get a copy.
My perception is that he is already disenchanted with his bosses.
Let's wait for the draft to discuss some of the most contentious elements
of both the transition and the constitution. Who is eligible to compete?
Why military conscription? etc.
Let our voices be heard. And we must act if we feel strongly about any
aspect of our national life.
Peace!
Amadou.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 11:00:33 -0800 (PST)
From: "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu>
To: Gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Forwarded from Omar Njie
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.91l.960312105329.22652E-100000@saul5.u.washington.edu>
This was written yesterday by Omar Njie.
Thanks
Tony
> All candidates were present at polling
> stations and at the counting of ballots by mostly
> unbiased civil servants (my dad and a number of my
> friends have been polling officers and followed the
> law to the letter) to guarantee fairness.
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------
> The physical voting is the last stage in the electoral process. It
includes
mass education
> (of citizen voting rights), voter registration, and campaigning.
During the
mass education
> (of citizen voting rights), voter registration, and campaigning.
During the
PPP regime,
> we've heard of foreigners voting and people using street names and
addresses
that are
> non existent. The PPP had the some access of Radio Gambia. These
instances
does not
> even portray even near fair elections.
>
> During the 1982 elections, Jane C. Faye (an Independent candidate) in Lower
Niumi was
> expected to defeat Dodou Ngum (a PPP candidate). During Jawara's visit to
Mbollet Ba
> (Jane's campaign headquarters), a couple his supporters were arrested
for no
apparent
> reason. This created a lot of panic in the area and for that reason, a lot
of people ended
> up voting for Ngum. How do you call that fair and free elections.
>mass education
> (of citizen voting rights), voter registration, and campaigning.
During the
PPP regime,
> we've heard of foreigners voting and people using street names and
addresses
that are
> non existent. The PPP had the some access of Radio Gambia. These
instances
does not
> even portray even near fair elections.
>
> During the 1982 elections, Jane C. Faye (an Independent candidate) in Lower
Niumi was
> expected to defeat Dodou Ngum (a PPP candidate). During Jawara's visit to
Mbollet Ba
> (Jane's campaign headquarters), a couple his supporters were arrested
for no
apparent
> reason. This created a lot of panic in the area and for that reason, a lot
of people ended--
> up voting for Ngum. How do you call that fair and free elections.
up voting for Ngum. How do you call that fair and free elections.
>
> Another issue: I do not condone any form of government that got in power
against the will
> of the people. However, it was Jawara's time to go!!! Even if his
government was a
> "good" one, 30 years of governance was just too long. Human beings
are also
subject of
> the "law of diminishing returns". One's productivity declines after a
given
period. Jawara
> would have exhausted his productive initiatives.
>
> Most of us would not have been abroad had it not been of Jawara's bad
strategic policies.
> It's sad that the highest educational institution the PPP can boost of
is the
Gambia
> College; or may I say the Sixth Form. We all heard of the huge sums of
funds
spend on
> the eve of Gambia's silver jublie; an estimated amount of D25 million. On
spend on
> the eve of Gambia's silver jublie; an estimated amount of D25 million. On
that day (Feb.
> 18, 1990), a school boy, a tourist and a civilian were accidentally
shot by a
soldier
> controlling the crowd at the stadium. They were unable to get an ambulance
'cause the
> ones available at the stadium were meant to escort Jawara. They were
rushed
to Banjul
> in a van. The tourist died on the way. The school boy and the
civilian had
to wait a
> couple of days at the RVH while they try to fix the equipment that was
supposed to be
> used to remove the bullets.
>
> On the present transition, I agree with a number of you fellas in that
Jammeh
is not gonna
> give up power. This is being realistic. I hope we are all dead wrong!!!!
The unfortunate
> thing is that this cycle of military coups one's started will
continue. We
never needed an
> army in the first place. To protect the country against who?
Senegal? All
we need is a
> very strong police force to maintain internal law and order. The army
was as
a result of
> Jawara's lack of vision ...
> Well, I will continue form here another time. Got to go take an exam
in the
next 3 hours
>
> Omar.
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 96 13:31:11 CST
From: <JDG.L.LANGE.LWCLK@CO.HENNEPIN.MN.US>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Embassy in the "dark"
Message-ID: <9603121931.AA29924@mx5.u.washington.edu>
Amadou:
It might just be that Tombong does not want to provide you with a copy;
reason--he knows you will be critical. (Sometime ago, I asked
him for a copy of the decrees of the AFPRC, he didn't have those either.)
What do you exepct from an ******* . . . ?
Morro.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 16:27:26 -0500
From: Gabriel Ndow <gndow@auc.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Embassy in the "dark"
Message-ID: <199603122127.QAA22463@auc.edu>
Greetings:
I spoke to Tombong Saidy yesterday and he told be that the ban on political
parties will be lifted in MAY. The elections will be in July. TWO MONTHS LATER!
Can it be said now that some folks are stacking the deck heavily on their side?
I cautiously agree with Amadou that Tombong may be in the dark about many issuespertaining to the regime. My reason (this is purely speculative) is based on my
personal dealings with him and the Embassy. Here is an example:
When he was first given his new appointment (which in my opinion he lobbied for)he called me the same day to solicit my advice. He told me that he wanted to
help steer the country in the right direction and one can only do that effectively by being close to the junta to influence their decision-making process. I
told him point blank that the position would require him to act as a spokeman of the regime. He stated that as long as his Principles were not violated he does
not mind speaking on behalf of the regime. I told him that would be very
difficult to do, but wished him well.
The ensuing months made it clear to me that he was perhaps being used as a tool
by the regime. He was often being by-passed in the very process he wished to be a part of. A case in point:
Two weeks prior to the visit of the AFPRC delegation that was originally
supposed to go to the UN 50th Anniversary, he called me to tell me that the
delegation would also be touring the US (Washington DC and Atlanta) and they
were requesting to have a Town Hall meeting in Atlanta. He wanted to know if I
could set it up.(We have had the opportunity here in Atlanta to have a public
meeting with Jawara and Pap Che Yasin Secka on two separate occassions.)
So having the AFPRC representatives Vice Chairman Captain Singhateh, Minister of
Foreign Affairs Blaise Jagne and Tombong, as well as others, have a forum in
Atlanta was something I welcomed.
Needless to say, after receiving numerous faxes from the Embassy informing me ofthe number of delegates coming (first it was 21 then it was cut to 14 then 9),
as well as Singhateh not being able to make the trip (no reasons given), and other miscellaneous items I got a call from another source the the delegation was
not going to come to Atlanta. In fact they would not even be going to Washington D.C.! This was the night before the meeting was scheduled to take place!
Tombong never called me. I had to call him, then he apologized saying that it
was a last minute decision. That the delegation was asked to return as soon as
their mission to the UN was over.
So you see, it is occurrences like this which make me conclude that he may
be in the dark on many issues concerning actions of the regime.
Finally, I would like to welcome Prof. Ndongo to our group, and look forward to
fruitful discussions with you.
LatJor
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 13:48:47 -0800
From: sarian@osmosys.incog.com (Sarian Loum)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Forwarded from Malanding
Message-ID: <199603122148.NAA09088@thesky.incog.com>
Well Malanding,
I still stand by my arguement that we were better off because who are
we fooling? Not ourselves we all once lived in Gambia and seen how we
grew from bad to worse, I don't see what we gained from being on our
own except self destruction. Only a minority of the population enjoyed
elitism while the rest of the nation suffered like hell. And yes, I
totaly agree with you about the military boys but we should be fair in
our criticism and give credit where credit is due and this applies to
both the military boys and the Jawarra regime. So if there's a staunch
supporter of Jawarra and/or the military boys, just hope you can take
the heat.
Sarian
> From GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu Tue Mar 12 10:12 PST 1996
> Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 10:04:18 -0800 (PST)
> From: "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu>
> To: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Forwarded from Malanding
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> X-To: Gambia-l@u.washington.edu
> X-Sender: tloum@saul5.u.washington.edu
> X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN
>
>
>
> From Malanding
>
>
>
> Sarian, You have said dome valid piont about being better off in
> colonial days than now. My thought about that is being better off in
> colonial times does not make colonialism better than self rule.
> To Lamin and other concern about official monitoring, we should be
> aware that we are not here to impress anybody. In order to impress
> the government you have to join them. Many members of this list
> atleast personally do not share the same view as the military boys.
> As a result I am and will be critical of them. In my heart I am doing
> what is good for the country and not what is good for the military
> boys or myself.
> Anyway have a good day
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 96 16:29:22 CST
From: <JDG.L.LANGE.LWCLK@CO.HENNEPIN.MN.US>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Embassy in the "dark"
Message-ID: <9603122229.AA25152@mx5.u.washington.edu>
Latjor:
Notwithstanding your generosity to Tombong, I still think he is an
opportunist and an *******. . . Worse, I think he is part of a murderous
gang.
Morro.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 14:43:28 -0800 (PST)
From: "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu>
To: Gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Different email addresses
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.91l.960312144023.20576B-100000@saul1.u.washington.edu>
I have gone ahead and added Omar Njie's new address onjie@socrates.nlu.edu
to cut down on the error messages. So Omar, if you have both accounts
active, you will be receiving Gambia-l postings on each one.
Thanks
Tony
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 96 22:57:00 WET
From: onjie@gemini.nlu.edu
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: New email addresses
Message-ID: <9603122257.AA16905@ gemini.nlu.edu >
Tony:
I still maintain the same address I initially registered on the mail
listings. I'm not sure if I know what caused the error message.
Omar.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 15:41:50 -0800 (PST)
From: Oumar Ndongo <ondongo@benfranklin.hnet.uci.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: contribution to the discussion on the Confederation
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.960312152309.14911A-100000@benfranklin.hnet.uci.edu>
Hi,Mbokka!
As requested by Tony,i promise to make a delivery on "The Senegambian
Confederation".You will receive it either tomorrow or the day after
tomorrow.I have an important text to finish which makes it difficult for
me to catch up with the pace.I was going to ask you to call me Omar since
Gambians don't like ndongos.As i can see there is already one Omar.What
about calling me Oumar, then?
Thanks
Oumar
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 96 17:58:22 CST
From: Katim S. Touray <touray@hope.soils.wisc.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Stuff ...
Message-ID: <9603122358.AA01951@hope.soils.wisc.edu>
Hi folks,
i'm writing regarding a couple of issues:
1. it seems the military guys have presided over a very interesting draft of our
constitution. i'm gonna have to take a close look at what we know about it
before i chip in my 2 buttuts worth of opinion.
2. i notice Morro call Mr. Saidy an opportunist, and the 'a' word. while Morro
has a geninuine right to his opinions about other people, i would like us to
remember that we are not doing this thing to call people names. i think we
owe it to ourselves and our credibility to maintained as reasoned and
thought out, even if passionate, positions as is possible. Mr. Saidy will have
all rights to say, after seeing Morros' last posting, that we are using the
networks to slander him. this is especially undesirable in light of the fact that
the guy has no means to defend himself on our forum. to cut a long story short: i
would like us all to ask ourself the simple question: would what i'm about to say
make me upset if it was said about me, in fairness?
3. Sarian had a problem setting her mail to ACK. you'll notice Sarian that
you forgot one word, 'mail' in the command you sent. again, the command is:
set gambia-l mail ack
this ofcourse should be sent to: listproc@u.washington.edu, with nothing in the
subject field.
i guess that's about all for now. have a great week everyone, and keep it coming!
bye,
Katim
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 96 18:54:41 CST
From: <JDG.L.LANGE.LWCLK@CO.HENNEPIN.MN.US>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Stuff ...
Message-ID: <9603130054.AA14114@mx5.u.washington.edu>
Kaitm:
With all due repect Katim, "slander" is a legal term to which truth is an
absolute defense. After 2 years of this dictatorships, my loss of rights
and freedoms, several murders not to mention tortures, I cannot be about
"nice." All I have is my word and my word is he is an *******.
Morro
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 18:52:41 -0800 (PST)
From: "Roddie L. Cole" <rcole@ced.berkeley.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Cc: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Forwarded from Malanding
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.90.960312184104.4297A-100000@chabot.ced.berkeley.edu>
I'm not really sure where you are going with your argument. Are you
seriously suggesting that Gambia's public policy be debated and
decisions taken in Westminister; that they should decide how our tax
dalasis (such as those are) are spent, and so on?
While I an not one of those that seek to ascribe all of Africa's
problems to colonialism, there is no doubt it played a major
role in distorting the regional economy and skewing the mode of
Africa's entry into world markets (see Ali Mazrui's "The Africans").
Sam:
An eloquent contribution. I agree with a previous contribution that to
focus on what happened at the ballot box (during the Jawara regime) would
be to miss the point altogether. Where the common pool of resources
(media, transportation, foreign aid such as bags of rice, etc.)is
deployed to ensure the longevity of the ruling party at the expense
of others, then power is "captured" long before the masses get to the
ballot box.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 18:58:26 -0800 (PST)
From: "Roddie L. Cole" <rcole@ced.berkeley.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Cc: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: contribution to the discussion on the Confederation
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.90.960312185656.4297B-100000@chabot.ced.berkeley.edu>
I brace myself for the onslaught from half-dyers!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 17:19:26 -0500 (EST)
From: Amadou Scattred Janneh <AJANNEH@pstcc.cc.tn.us>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Newspaper Publication Suspended
Message-ID: <01I29C3KOXVM000Q8B@PSTCC6.PSTCC.CC.TN.US>
BANJUL, March 11 (Reuter) - Gambia's seven independent newspapers have
suspended publication pending approval from the military government under
new conditions which include a $10,000 bond, editors said Monday.
The government raised the value of the bond to 100,000 dalasis from 1,000
dalasis last month. The country's seven independent newspapers signed the
bond on Friday and say they are now waiting for the justice ministry to
grant them approval.
The government of Captain Yahya Jammeh, who took power in a coup in July
1994, has clamped down on the country's newspapers. Earlier this month
an official order told the government printing department to stop
printing private newspapers.
--------------
I AM TIRED FOLKS!
The story goes on to detail the AFPRC's suppression of journalists:
(1) the expulsions of Kenneth Best and Justice Fofanah
(2) harassment of Pap Saine et al.
and so on
It's AMADOU
PEACE!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 96 18:02:11 WET
From: onjie@gemini.nlu.edu
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Stuff ...
Message-ID: <9603131802.AA18113@ gemini.nlu.edu >
>After 2 years of this dictatorships, my loss of rights
>and freedoms, several murders not to mention tortures, I cannot be about
>"nice."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morro:
One can never be "nice" to any dictator who denies any human beings their basic rights
and freedoms. It's ok to disagree with a person or a group of people. However, I agree
with Katim. This should be a forum for intellectual discussion where we can exchange
ideas and learn from each other and not restoring to insulting other people. I can
understand the temptation to do the latter.
Omar.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 96 13:41:30 CST
From: <JDG.L.LANGE.LWCLK@CO.HENNEPIN.MN.US>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Stuff ...
Message-ID: <9603131942.AA20659@mx3.u.washington.edu>
Omar:
One who kills and tortues me and my kind should be thankful that my only
retribution is an "insult." This was my right yesterday and remains my right
today . . . or have YOU restrained me of that too?
Morro.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 96 17:56:12 CST
From: Katim S. Touray <touray@hope.soils.wisc.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Error messages, the Gambian Independent press, and Insults ...
Message-ID: <9603132356.AA03141@hope.soils.wisc.edu>
Hi folks,
i would like to touch on a number of issues:
1. error messages about e-mail addresses have been cropping up. i noticed
that sometimes these go away if ignored. but then others crop up. for
example, i've noticed error messages about Malandings' address, and Amadous'.
i think (but i'm not sure) that this might have something to do with the
speed with which mail servers respond to 'listproc' requests for services.
thus, if the computer at Malandings' fails to repond within a certain
time frame, this is interpreted as a wrong address. subsequent tries
might go through and hence, no more errors. where the errors messages
persist, i think we have a more serious problem, like temporary account
closure.
the other issue in this regard is relates to those of us who have more
than one e-mail address they can send mail from. like Tony said the
other day, we can configure the list (or so the manual says) to all you
to register one address but be able to send mail to the list from as many
sites as you want. this will prevent sending you multiple copies to your
many e-mail addresses. you'll, ofcourse, be responsible for managing
mail at your end. that is, mail coming to your registered addressed will
have to be forwarded to whatever address you want by yourself.
2. the Gambian Independent press. i noticed that the last mail i sent
was supposed to be the completion of aborted mail. this was why i put
'Ooops' in the Subject field. what i started saying in the aborted mail
was the essence of Amadous' posting. if i remember correctly, yesterdays'
(tuesday) edition of 'Focus on Africa' included an interview with the
editor of the 'Observer' newspaper, in which he was saying that no paper
had been published.
i found it interesting that Amadou was getting 'tired' (laugh). please
don't!. needless to say, the task faced by The Gambia is pretty daunting.
however, i have absolutely no doubt that we can fix things. which reminds
me of a small incident: a few years ago, i was with a couple of guys (one
faculty and computer technician here in Madison) installing a new hard
disk on a computer. i noticed that the disk was made in Singapore, and
i asked them whether they would consider buying a hard disk made in The
Gambia. they laughed their heads off!. i rolled with laughter. see,
they were laughing at me, but i was laughing at *them*. they thought i
was out of my mind to think it feasible that The Gambia will ever get to
when it can export computer hard disks. and i was laughing at them for
being shortsighted enough to miss the potential of a nation, small as The
Gambia is. so we all had fun. and i know, too, that the Detroit car
makers laughed at the Japanese when they first attempted to export cars to
the US. now look who's laughing. the point i'm trying to make in this
rather long paragraph is that we'll have to get up and chip in our 2
buttuts (make that Dalasis) worth of efforts. the AFPRC should not,
must not, and cannot be allowed to enjoy a monopoly on ideas and initiative.
so what's do i think about how we should proceed?. well, let me think ...
(seriously, i'll send you guys some serious proposals pretty soon).
3. the right to Insults. i mentioned in my posting yesterday that we should
refrain from name calling on the list. i understand some of us have genuine
concerns, anger, frustrations, and such regarding the AFPRC regime, and their
representatives. those are understandable human feelings, and if anyone
feels they have a right to reply to their actions in a way they deem fit,
that's fine too.
what's not fine, though, is to use the forum of our mailing list to haul
insults at anybody, including the AFPRC, and their representatives. to
suggest, as Morro did, that one has a right to 'insult' them, because they
did whatever to whoever you care about just simply won't fly here. the fact
of the matter is that while free speech is more than in abundance in this
country, no one has a right to any medium, including our list. like i said
yesterday, and still maintain, we have to aim and work toward being fair to
everyone, even our adversaries. remember we have no enemies?. i hope this
clears up the atmosphere, and that we can all get back to the great debates
we've been having here.
that's all for now, and on that note, i'd like to wish y'all a great rest-
of-the-week.
bye,
Katim
A
A
j
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 15:52:19 -0800 (PST)
From: Oumar Ndongo <ondongo@benfranklin.hnet.uci.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: checking if forwarded message is through!
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.960313154213.28496B-100000@benfranklin.hnet.uci.edu>
Hi,folks,
I sent my contribution on the confederation just before 2:00 p.m. and had
it back to me for unrecoverable error. Then ,i found what i thought was
the error, sent the undelivered message through "forward" but never got
it again.Can you tell me if i am through with the forwarded texts.I'll be
really frustrated if nobody got them.It was my fault.
Hope to hear from anybody who has received a text from Oumar\Senegal.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 96 9:58:22 GMT
From: L Konteh <L.Konteh-95@student.lut.ac.uk>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Stuff ...
Message-ID: <9603140958.AA06953@hpl.lut.ac.uk>
Morro,
I understand your situation and i am with you on that one. Sorry Katim, i
think the guy is right.
Lang
>
> Omar:
>
> One who kills and tortues me and my kind should be thankful that my only
> retribution is an "insult." This was my right yesterday and remains my right
> today . . . or have YOU restrained me of that too?
>
> Morro.
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 09:27:22 -0500 (EST)
From: Amadou Scattred Janneh <AJANNEH@pstcc.cc.tn.us>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Let's Move On
Message-ID: <01I2BO7GPY06000NBT@PSTCC6.PSTCC.CC.TN.US>
There is no need to waste our energies on the issue of appropriate language
in the exchange of views and information on the "net."
My rule is not to respond at all if I do not deem the language appropriate.
I also address my comments to the group rather than to individual members
of the list. When I need to "insult" Jammeh, Jawara, etc., I direct my
statements to them directly using faxes or the mass media.
Let's move on and talk about the great issues confronting our nation with
some modicum of civility.
Peace!
Amadou.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 09:35:19 -0500 (EST)
From: Amadou Scattred Janneh <AJANNEH@pstcc.cc.tn.us>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Draft Constitution?
Message-ID: <01I2BOGVYD8C000NBT@PSTCC6.PSTCC.CC.TN.US>
Does any one have a copy of the draft constitution yet?
DROP "directly" FROM MY LAST MESSAGE.
Amadou.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 96 09:33:08 CST
From: <JDG.L.LANGE.LWCLK@CO.HENNEPIN.MN.US>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Right to Free Speech
Message-ID: <9603141533.AA02544@mx3.u.washington.edu>
Katim:
The logic of this debate boggles my mind. But
the great thing about "rights" is that they are not held at
the pleasure of the majority. Moreover, you have accused AFPRC of treason;
others have called them murders; I call them *******s. It would seem to me
that by the nature of your charges, you would have them jailed or
shot. I merely hurt their feelings. Now, you wanna rethink your moral
outrage? While I commend your moral fortitude, I beleive it is misplaced.
(hahaha!!!)
Morro.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 96 09:51:43 CST
From: <JDG.L.LANGE.LWCLK@CO.HENNEPIN.MN.US>
To: Gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Let's Move On
Message-ID: <9603141551.AA04547@mx3.u.washington.edu>
Amadou:
I agree we should move on not because this is a frivolous issue, but because
I always thought this is a well settled area in free societies, including
Gambia-l. I do believe the whole debate goes to our level of tolerance
for those who are different, outrageous and even unwise. It tells a tale of
a people for whom a constitution is less binding than emotions--AFPRC
overthrew our constitutional govt. because it could (emotion); not because
it should have (the rule of law forbid it). Here I am being told not to use
my choice of words not becuase it legally impermissible, but because it
"offends" those who have done great violence to my life, my country and my
people.
I have been told in this forum that Jawara ruled for as long as he did
because we failed to challenge him. We were silent. Never again will I be
restrained of my liberties because I am retrained in my speech. Even at the
cost of losing friends like you.
Morro.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 13:21:30 -0500 (EST)
From: Amadou Scattred Janneh <AJANNEH@pstcc.cc.tn.us>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Let's Move On
Message-ID: <01I2BWEE970I0012UD@PSTCC6.PSTCC.CC.TN.US>
Morro:
Not to worry, you won't lose me! I have engaged in far more controversial
debates with my father without losing any sleep over it. He was a member
of the NCP; and I was very critical of the NCP, PPP, etc. Because of his
fallout with the Jawara regime, he now solidly supports the AFPRC. On the
other hand, I have written extensively about the undemocratic character of
the AFPRC--even to the point of sending faxes threatening some form of
direct action against the regime. And "No" I was not silent during the
years of corruption and misrule. As late as March 1992 I published a
magazine ("Afrika") that was quite critical of the PPP regime. Sarjo
Bojang (on this list) was one of my subscribers.
The point is that I am tolerant; and words would not dampen my relationship
with any one. Of course, if you punch me in the nose, then we will have
a different problem.
Peace (as always)!
Take care.
Amadou
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 11:30:54 -0800 (PST)
From: "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu>
To: Gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Forward of Professor Ndongo's contribution to Senegambia confederation.
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.91l.960314111410.32123A-100000@saul2.u.washington.edu>
I am forwarding this posting from Oumar because the original ended up in
an error message and I do not think that the rest of list received it.
Oumar, I will send the other contributions on this issue from the past by
members of the list, so that you can see diverse Gambian perspectives.
Hi,
> I'm sorry to take you back to a story which seemed closed.Tony offered to
> give me some feedback on how you approached the problem.I did not request
> it but i think i'll need it later to have your perspectives in addition
> to the ones you'll make as a response to my contribution.I apologize also
> if at times i get to stereotypical attitudes which abound in Senegambian
> relationships.I'll elaborate first what i think has happened in Senegal,
> the context,then i'll go onto what i think made the Gambians pull back.My
> thesis is that the Senegambian Confederation was short-lived because it
> was built on fear(to have a regime in the Gambia which could be
> uncooperative and this would have one immediate consequence: Casamance);
> it was not meant to be a confederation( at worst, it was a federation)
> ;was not also meant to be egalitarian(because of circumstances).
>
Now coming to the context of Senegal,the late 70s was a period of unrest
> particularly with our neighbors up North, Mauritania i mean and a
> movement called WALFOUGUI standing for WALO -FOUTA-GUIDIMAKHA, in other
> terms the strip of land on the Mauritanian side of the Senegal river and
> the idea of pushing to secession was in the air from those populations
> and getting something with Senegal was also an idea some caressed for a
> long time putting thus an end to years of frustration and exclusion in
> what they thought was their country( at the time of independence,most the
> intellectuals of this country were black,and yet Moktar Ould Daddah
> became their first president).Colonel Kader, armed by Morroco,using
> Senegalese territory to march on Nouakchott was arrested and killed.The
> movement failed.
> Casamance was another place where ethnic dynamics started to
> deteriorate because of nearly ten years of droughts and northern
> populations had migrate to the South and brought with them very
> condescendent attitudes so much so frictions were inevitable.Besides, for
> the people in the South ,the North is unproductive and Senegal is fed by
condescendent attitudes so much so frictions were inevitable.Besides, for
> the people in the South ,the North is unproductive and Senegal is fed by
> the South which is not receiving much in return in terms of infrastrure
> or investment.The presence of the Gambia seemed to some an obstacle to
> Senegalese unity as a nation.
> In the early 80s and even before Senegambia was in the minds of
> many people and the motivations seemed to be different.Those years
> corresponded years of cultural assessment and past reappraisal.Senghor
> was about to leave and Abdou was being prepared.There was a strong
> movement for the rehabilitation of national heroes for civic purposes and
> cultural identity, this went along with the demand that our kids must be
> taught in our national languages.Some intellectuals showed that it was
> possible to teach science and technology in the languages spoken in the
> country.It was very romantic, yet it had its appealing aspect.In fact,
> with developing national history, the Senegambia came back as a living
> reality and a source of pride as to how ancient empires were contructed
> and administered.Soon ,Senegambia became part of the curriculum with
> unfortunately a wolof emphasis:KAJOR,BAOL,JOLOF,AND
> RIP,NDUKUMAAN.University professors developed it among them Prs MBAYE
-- unfortunately a wolof emphasis:KAJOR,BAOL,JOLOF,AND
> RIP,NDUKUMAAN.University professors developed it among them Prs MBAYE
> GUEYE ,MAMADOU DIOUF,BOUBACAR BARRY. Pr B. BARRY,a Guinean refugee made
> an important contribution>his book gave a wider perspective by including
> ancient states from WAO to Casamance.
> Now the circumstances.The incident happened in 1979 i think and
> Senegalese troops intervened unnoticed, any way by many.This was called
> Fode Kaba 1.That incident triggered thoughts in Command spheres.
> The Gambia has been described by the strategists as a "finger in
> Senegal's anus." I don't mean to be vulgar, but the image is not mine.It
> is seen as the very example of colonial stupid legacy.
> What if a communist regime comes to power? Some one like Thomas Sankara
> ,uncontrolable! With Jawara ,there is always a way out.Besides, he is not
> the type to look for trouble by allowing rebels to use his country.
> Fode Kaba 2 came in 1981, just at the time Abdou Diouf was in command
> with a big controversy( giving him power was unconstitutional, many said
> that he was too shy to make a good president).The Gambia was a proving
> ground for him.Senegal intervened out of fear not knowing who would be in
> command.Then,Jawara, whose power has been restored thanks to the
> ground for him.Senegal intervened out of fear not knowing who would be in
> command.Then,Jawara, whose power has been restored thanks to the
> Senegalese troops could not but be grateful and undemanding.Hence,the
> sitution changed and Abdou became his big brother and used the situation
> to validate his own position at home.Yet, he was not reassured by the
> informality of power exercise in the Gambian and advised Gendarmes to
> protect him.It was his biggest mistake but he just copied what exist in
> many former colonies with the BIMA battalions stationed in the capital
> cities for defense accords but everybody knows what th\ey are used for.In
> Cote d'Ivoire ,they took Houphouet back to power.
> The Confederation worked comfortably for Jawara who used it to rebuild
> his authority and regain confidence from the Gambian opposition.Every day
> was a step he made in downsizing the confederal presence until he found
> himself vey comfortable with the Gambians and he then pulled back.
> I think the Senegalese were not interested in a confederation which
> obviously was leading to nowhere.Being one country or with key
> institutions in common would be appealing,i think.
> >From the Gambian side what i think did not go right, I see two:
> -- the unegalitarian perspectives shown through the presence of troops,
> a real anachronism in an independent country, even though one of you is
> very nostalgic about the colonial times to show how much he feels sick
> about what's going on .
> --Gambian social dynamics precisely the AKU component,a well off entity
> with a reasonable control of trade and with some key positions in the
> administration although a minority.This group has not much enthusiasm in
> what was being done and felt somehow not concerned by blood and
> historical ties which were profusedly cited to legitimate the move.They
> were rather from the South.This confederation would compromise their
> businesses.They appeared to me not committed.The vast majority of
> Soce,fula,usually,the Gambian peasantry was completely in the "dark"as a
> nonentity as political pressure groups even though the president is one
> of them.
> If there are mistakes which i see in the Gambian approach to problems ,i
> will put them in four areas which Gambians neglected in their nation
> building process:
> -No higher education institutions, a blunder.Development needs people to
> building process:
> -No higher education institutions, a blunder.Development needs people to
> think.
> -lack of initiatives in the administration except in tourism and trade
> which are sectors which wrecked the country and made it
> extraverted.Nationals have no contral over businesses.Even for school,
> you go and get a training where ever you want, who cares?Nobody is
> looking at how to make all these competences work for the country.Brain
> drain is consequently high for lack of perspectives.To tell the truth the
> Gambia has no right to be member of CILLSS,everything grows.You just need
> to throw the seeds.
> -lack of armed forces:they are an important body in an organized
> state.One can be anti\ pro military, yet there is a necessity for an army
> not for its traditional tasks, but for development ones.ONe of you was
> saying there was no need having an army.Having an army to rule over the
> country, you don't need that,To face threat from your neighbors?Not very
> likely to be useful.However, you still need an army, with assigned
> tasks.At least it provides employment and training, besides, it is very
> important in civic programs.All these tasks you can have them performed
> tasks.At least it provides employment and training, besides, it is very
> important in civic programs.All these tasks you can have them performed
> by other bodies but the control and punishment , the army has more
> traditions.Look,the problem of discharging AIDS contaminated servimen or
> women in the US,the heated debate it has given because it in the army
> that you have the most reliable sources to improve on the disease
> research.I find though they need to be oriented.
> -development of local languages.As working on American culture ,i see
> today that West Africa is of no great interest to the Americans, they are
> going to East or Southern Africa where languages are developed in
> addition to their colonial patrimony.Obviously, if there is no
> University, there is nothing of the kinds i talked about.
> I have been long and went into more global discussion. I'll be glad to
> hear from you.If you find some ideas are stupid ,please tell me,i claim
> to be an intellectual therefore not easily shocked by answers.
> Thanks
> Ci Jaam
> Oumar\ senegal
========================================================================
Anthony W Loum tloum@u.washington.edu
Supervisor, Business Administration Library 206-543-4360 voice
100 Balmer Hall 206-685-9392 fax
University of Washington
Box 353200
Seattle, Wa.98195-3200
=========================================================================
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 14:46:09 -0500 (EST)
From: ABDOU <at137@columbia.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: democratic structures
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.960314141531.20262A-100000@vanakam.cc.columbia.edu>
Hi Fellows,
I have been watching with much interest the debates about
democracy. I however think that the focus of attention on personalities
is misplaced. I say this for the following reasons.
Firstly, the is ample evidence that democracy needs a sizeable
middle class to survive. The Gambia is far from fulfilling this
criterion. Just look around; all democracies are also reasonably
wealthy. The only people willing to challenge tyrants tend to be either
educated or have a stake in law and order i.e economic stake. I would
therefore say that it is not that we cannot rule ourselves as been
frequently hinted here, but the right conditions for good governance do
not yet exist in the country. We should be looking forward to a long
period of instabilty and anarchy. I cannot think of any country that has
avoided in its history, the growing pains that The Gambia is now going
through.
The other reason against this focus on personalities is that without
the existence of a structure pressuring a political leader, there would
exist a high probality that he/she would turn into a tyrant. Gambians
are however forever looking for a messiah to save them. Well, we shall be
looking for one for a long time.
I am not saying that we take things in stride. But we need to know
that what is happening to our country is very familiar.
The second issue I will write on concerns subscriptions. To those
who criticized my stance I will ask you to investigate the deplorable history
that the US army has of sponsoring coups and sending their soldiers to study
"natives" . So I remain steadfast in my condemnation of the US army and all
that it it stands for. I liked the way Oumar welcome to the list oumar
introduced himself. People who would like to join the list should be asked
to send us a letter doing the same thing: tell us how the list would benefit
from being in the list. I would also tell my critics that just because
everyone can participate in a process does not make the process
democratic. And also "the more the merrier" does not always hold forth:
look at what happened to Africa-L .
I also think we need someone to sound out the list (publicy,
privately) and to implement consensus/policy. I would suggest someone
from the group of new members. This is because our debates do not take a
clear direction and we need to know how the membership feels about new
subsribers. Since we have so many sleepers in the list, we need to
contact them to see what they feel.
Katim/Tony, I am not getting the error messages that you are talking
about. I have a facilty for check addresses. SO keep 'em rolling my way.
*******************************************************************************
A. TOURAY.
(718)904-0215.
MY URL ON THE WWW= http://www.cc.columbia.edu/~at137
A FINITE IN A LAND OF INFINITY.
SEEKING BUT THE REACHABLE.
I WANDER AND I WONDER.
ALL RESPITE IS FINAL.
*******************************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 96 14:14:25 CST
From: <JDG.L.LANGE.LWCLK@CO.HENNEPIN.MN.US>
To: Gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: PHEW! PHEW!
Message-ID: <9603142015.AA21894@mx5.u.washington.edu>
Amadou:
I get ya. Despite my sometimes harsh words, I have yet to punch anyone.
Oouf . . . boy I'm I glad these exchanges occured over the internet lest
I now be Morro with a more substantial nose . . .
Morro.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 17:00:38 -0800 (PST)
From: "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu>
To: Gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Gambia court convicts women over skin-bleaching (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.91l.960314170015.9660A-100000@saul2.u.washington.edu>
FYI-
Tony
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 7:40:30 PST
From: Reuters <C-reuters@clari.net>
Newgroups: clari.world.africa.western
Subject: Gambia court convicts women over skin-bleaching
BANJUL, Gambia (Reuter) - A court in the West African state
of Gambia convicted and sentenced two women Thursday on charges
of possessing skin bleaching products.
The court at Birkama, 20 miles from the capital Banjul,
sentenced one woman to a fine equivalent to $400 or three years
in jail. It ordered the second woman to pay the equivalent of
$200 or face two years in jail.
The first woman was arrested in possession of 11 tubes of
cream at Banjul airport, the second had just one tube.
Doctors denounce skin bleaching as a health risk but it is a
fad among some African women. Some go so far as to have their
skins peeled to just below the melanin level, a procedure known
as xessal.
Gambia's military government, which seized power in the West
African tourist haven in 1994, outlawed the use and possession
of skin-bleaching products Jan. 1.
--
This is the NEW RELEASE of the ClariNet e.News! If you notice any
problems with the new edition, please mail us at editor@clari.net and
let us know. Thanks! More information can be found on our web site at
http://www.clari.net/ or in clari.net.announce.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 96 20:50:23 CST
From: Katim S. Touray <touray@hope.soils.wisc.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Hi there!
Message-ID: <9603150250.AA04747@hope.soils.wisc.edu>
Hi there,
it's nice to hear all the voice coming forth on all the burning issues we face.
i'd like to, before i go on, say a big 'Thank you' to Oumar for his very
interesting and refreshing posting on a brief segment of the history of
relations between Senegal and The Gambia. he raised some very important
issues, notably his opinions on Gambian policy (or lack thereof, of a
coherent one) on education. i think though that the issues raised deserve
reflection, and for this reason, i've saved the file, and we reply with
my 200 CFA worth of ideas in a bit.
the next issues are in regards the constitution and such stuff. like i
said yesterday, or the day before, i'll still thinking ...
by the way, i think we need to embark on a campaign to recruit more people
to our list. i'm sure there are more of us out there, and i think the
only way we can keep the excitement going is to keep adding new subscribers.
the above, by the way, in no way prejudices Abdous' contention that there
should be greater emphasis on quality than on quantity. i'm saying lets'
have more of quality, in addition to the fact that each number has its'
own quality (remember the saying there's strength in numbers?), which
increases as the numbers increase. here i go again ...
that's about all for now. have a great weekend everyone.
bye,
Katim
ps:
Abdou, the reason you'r not getting error messages now is that we removed
your address from the 'errors-to' list. if you want to take them on again
let me know.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 96 11:08:23 GMT
From: L Konteh <L.Konteh-95@student.lut.ac.uk>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re:Recruitment
Message-ID: <9603151108.AA03107@hpl.lut.ac.uk>
Hi Katim,
In response your request for more members, kindly add the following to the list
1. Ramou Njie [R.Njie@LSHTM.ac.uk]
2. Raduwan Dackour [R.Dackour@LSHTM.ac.uk]
3. Malang Bass [MAB105@ford.Anglia.ac.uk]
4. Sulayman Suso [EEESSULA@livjm.ac.uk]
5. Sankung Sawo [101573.1703@compuserve.com]
Thanks
Lang
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 10:23:28 -0500 (EST)
From: Amadou Scattred Janneh <AJANNEH@pstcc.cc.tn.us>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: New Members
Message-ID: <01I2D4GLQAKW000QFO@PSTCC6.PSTCC.CC.TN.US>
Just to inform you that I have added the following as requested:
Ramou Njie, Raduwan Dackour, Malang Bass, Sulayman Suso, and
Sankung Sawo.
Have a wonderful weekend!
Amadou Scattred Janneh.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 08:55:22 -0800 (PST)
From: "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Cc: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re:Recruitment
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.91l.960315084354.24438A-100000@saul5.u.washington.edu>
" Way to go " Lang. This is great. Thanks for the recruitment drive. I
can see that we will be getting our second female member and Sarian will
no longer be the " lone ranger " out there.
So, Subscription managers can you please add on the new recruits
so soon as you have the time.
Thanks
Tony
Katim, hopefully by next week, I will send an announcement about the
existence of Gambia-l to the following: Africa-l, Senega-l,
soc.culture.african. Should I just send a short basic announcement with
where and how to subscribe or send the draft of one messages that you wrote
a few weeks ago pertaining to subscription ?
On Fri, 15 Mar 1996, L Konteh wrote:
> Hi Katim,
>
> In response your request for more members, kindly add the following to the list
>
> 1. Ramou Njie [R.Njie@LSHTM.ac.uk]
>
> 2. Raduwan Dackour [R.Dackour@LSHTM.ac.uk]
>
> 3. Malang Bass [MAB105@ford.Anglia.ac.uk]
>
> 4. Sulayman Suso [EEESSULA@livjm.ac.uk]
>
> 5. Sankung Sawo [101573.1703@compuserve.com]
> Thanks
> Lang
>
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 12:21:07 -0800 (PST)
From: Oumar Ndongo <ondongo@benfranklin.hnet.uci.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: What's the use of a new constitution?
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.960315113625.23166A-100000@benfranklin.hnet.uci.edu>
Hi!
Last week, i guess,one of you was wondering whether in the context of
our countries writing a new constitution deserved so much attention.I buy
his argument for i don't see why so much energy and foresight must be put
on things which other sensibilities will violate without further ado , in
the name of the same motivations as those which took the "boys" to power.
We need more actions,more initiatives to inspire trust in our
capabilities and comfort that will to live together toward a common national
goal.
However,one thing is to disapprove of it, another thing is to refuse to
be part of the process once launched.In fact, many examples can be found
to support the idea that our leaders are experts in using circumstances to
serve their personal ambitions. We are mistaken if we think that the so
called "people",so powerful in a real democracy, yet so volatile in our
countries, will say no.Therefore ,although the re-writing of the
constitution is neither an end in itself nor the issue today in a context
of mal governance, I suggest serious study be made of the draft along with
the idea that charismatic leaders exist whose ambitions are to meet
challenges of economic growth and social prosperity.
Have a nice weekend , everybody.
Oumar\Senegal
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 14:43:59 -0800 (PST)
From: "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu>
To: Gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Forward of Malanding's response to Prof Ndongo
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.91l.960315143653.12145A-100000@saul1.u.washington.edu>
I think Prof Ndongo made some valid points in his contribution.
However, I find it a little bit difficult to understand how the AKU
component contributed. Perhaps the non-Wollof component (which
include the Mandigoes as well) may have been a stronger force. I
believe that many of the non-Banjulians or the non-Wollof depending
on how you look at it feel that integrating with Senegal would mean
more to the Banjulians who had traditional ties with Dakar than the
rest of the Gambia. Although many of these groups did not voice
their opposition outright, they did had a lot to do with the pace
of the integration process. Also our different "cultural" well the
English - French experience did a bad job in exaggerating those
differences.
As you rightly said the lack of common purpose (Senegal using it to
contain the Casamance problem, Abdou to show the country and his
oppponents how big he can get and ofourse Jawara, a way out of his
problems) also made it difficult to make it work.
-A question i would like folks to respond to is that do we really need
a Confederation or federation to improve relations between the two
countries? After all Senegambia was born out of politial idealism
rather cultural or geography reality.
Malanding
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Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 17:41:52 -0800 (PST)
From: "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu>
To: Gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Follow up response to Prof Ndongo
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.91l.960315144428.12145B-100000@saul1.u.washington.edu>
I agree that Prof Ndongo's analysis of the defunct Senegambian
confederation was very strong and valid. I am generally in agreement with
his positions except for the part played by the Akus in leading to the
demise. On that I support Malandings thesis. Here are my thoughts:
Historically, we all know that the Akus were the first to get
exposure to western education not only in The Gambia but also in Sierra
Leone where most of them migrated from. As a result they controlled most
of the civil service during the colonial days and slightly after
independence before the other ethnic groups started receiving higher
western education. As Jawara came to power together with the reduction of
the educational monopoly and advantaged enjoyed by the Akus, the dynamics
started tipping the balance from their side. For example, if this
Internet that we are now involved with was in existence about 40 years or
longer ago, the composition of the membership of this list would have
been predominantly Akus, but it is a different story nowadays. As we
progressed deeper into the post independence era, the power and influence
of the Akus in the civil service and government started to diminished.
Another debatetable point of Prof Ndongo is " the reasonable control of
trade " by the Akus. If this is interpreted literally, maybe I might
agree to it. But a suggestion about Aku dominance of the commercial
sector, if
that is the implication ( which I am not suggesting ) is grossly exagerated.
As stated, whatever influence the Akus had over public policy was already
waning. This was compounded by allegations of high ranking political
officials in The Jawara Administration being very tribalistic,
evidenced by systematic dismissal of non Mandinka high ranking civil
servants namely
John Ndow and Jeffrey Renner etc. These were things that I was told, I
was not at the Gambia to substantiate any of these allegations. So, my
arguement is that the Akus thus lacked any political and economic clout, to
have adversely impacted the Senegambian Confederation on the Gambian side.
One of the reasons given in the prior discussion, I believed that
it was by Amadou, indicated that it was not to the best interest of
Mandinka ruling class to which I agree. Wollof is the lingua franca and
the dominant language and culture of Senegal and would have eventually
absorbed The Gambia and its ruling elite, resulting in loss of power,
prestige and perks.
Malanding correctly pointed that the traditional ties between the
Banjul population ( mainly Wollofs ) with Dakar. Let me elaborate on
that. Banjul, then Bathurst was founded in 1816. That was followed by a
massive migration to Bathurst from the four colonial communes of Senegal.
They were Dakar, Goree, Rufisque and St Louis. Consequently, there are
lots of
blood ties with these predominantly Wollof peoples. I am a product of
those ties. Most of my ancestors came from Joal ( Juwala ) in Senegal
belonging to the Serer ethnic group and settled in Bathurst. So, it is
correct to assume that Banjul Wollofs would have been more comfortable
under such a fully implemented Senegambian Confederation.
I am not writing this to defend the Akus but just to give you my
perspective on the issue. Although, my maternal grandfather is Aku, I am
not an Aku. I consider myself a Serer with Wollof/Catholic upbringing
although I cannot speak Serer.
Let us not please use this posting as a precursor to an ethnic
debate and flaming wars. This was precisely the distasteful thing that
went on in Leonenet this past week. There was this verbal warfare between
The Mendes versus Temnes versus Limbas versus Krio's etc.
Thank you and have a nice weekend.
Tony
========================================================================
Anthony W Loum tloum@u.washington.edu
Supervisor, Business Administration Library 206-543-4360 voice
100 Balmer Hall 206-685-9392 fax
University of Washington
Box 353200
Seattle, Wa.98195-3200
=========================================================================
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Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 15:48:19
From: binta@iuj.ac.jp
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Follow up response to Prof Ndongo
Message-ID: <199603160644.PAA12438@mlsv.iuj.ac.jp>
Hi
May I add my voice to the discourse relating to the demise of an
ill-fated confederation(Senegambia). I have made my own points before
and do not wish to repeat them here.
In concurrence with Loum, I do not wish to subscribe to Oumar's view
that the Akus were to blame for the fall of the confederation for
precisely the same reasons advanced by Loum. The Akus had then lost
most of the political clout, and besides, they were very few in the
executive branch of government to have stalled Senegambia. The
English-French factor was and still is an important factor, at least as
far as many Gambians are concerned. However, I think this problem was
a handy scape-goat. Most of the real reasons have been discussed in
the past. I doubt if Gambians in general, irrespective of tribal
origin, would have yielded(neither do I think they will in the future)
to a confederated Senegambia. The perceived notion was and still is
that the giant Senegal will easily swallow us to the detriment of all
Gambians. To be exact, I am not advancing these points to indicate
my own stance on the confederation, I am basically stereotyping-which
may be inappropriate.
Despite my agreement with Tony on most of what he said, I would want
all of us to exercise some tolerance and discuss issues with as much
sanity as possible without losing the facts and those little details
we have all been providing to the list. Oumar or Malanding's views
need not be seen in any tribal light, for once that is done the
debate will lose the `Mbaxal' we all crave for from each other, and
emotions may cloud our sane line of thought and logic. Let us allow
the debate to flow while constraining ourselves to remain within bounds
The diversity of this list is worth preserving, and we must be
considerate to the aspirations, inspirations, and emotions of others.
Now that quite a number of us have expressed our opinions on the
previous confederation both before and after Oumar(S) joined us, may I
prompt this question. How many of us want another Senegambia
confederation? Will you espouse your reasons for your answer?
Good day to all of you.
Lamin(Japan).
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Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 08:23:43 -0800 (PST)
From: "Roddie L. Cole" <rcole@ced.berkeley.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Cc: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Follow up response to Prof Ndongo
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.90.960316073939.9596B-100000@chabot.ced.berkeley.edu>
Aha!! I am considered by many to be an "Aku" and thus
strategically positioned to spearhead a virtual ethnic war on the
internet (I myself claim fulani and Serrer origins and can provide
proof of that to any interested parties). Lucky for you guys
that I have zero ego and a zero sense of ethnic affiliation.
Seriously, I'm a little amused as to how every contributor has
called for caution in addressing the impact of "the tribal factor"
on public policy, in this case, the Senegambia confederation.
I guess those Gambians of an intellectual persuasion
are more sensitive to this issue than I imagined.
I agree with the emerging consensus that by the eighties the bureaucratic
power of Akus had declined significantly. I'm not sure that the Akus
ever had strong interests in commerce and trade at the national level.
Indeed, business and the wealth derived thereof was looked upon
in middle class Aku homes as a less desirable option to the steady
income and safe pensions that government offered (the few Aku lawyers in
private practice being the exception that proves the rule). In economic
terms, Akus had an aversion to risk taking.
Malanding and Tony may be right about the reluctance of the non-Banjul
population to stronger ties with Senegal, but did this constituency
have the ability to influence public policy? through what channels, the PPP?
My own sense is that even the Banjul mafia itself, an influential
and wealthy group (e.g. Ousainou Njie of the Commercial Bank, Fisco Conateh
of fisheries fame and acclaim, and others), despite ethnic affiliation to
Senegal, were less than enthusiastic about the whole issue. They had
the Gambian financial and commercial sectors tightly locked up and were
unwilling to face competition from Senegal.
Like structuralists (Marxists?), I an sceptical of interests that seem to
be grounded in "culture". Ultimately, there are material pay-offs
to the actions of participants in both economic and political spheres.
Oumar: It is intriging to read your contributions and to observe how you
interweave popular culture with political interests to explain policy
outcomes. I note a serious dichotomy between the strong nationalist
sentiments in Senegal in the early eighties that you speak of and a
willingness to delegate subtantial influence to France especially in
the arena of monetary policy.
Roddie Senghor.
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End of GAMBIA-L Digest 7
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gambia-l: LOG9603D - Digest 7
