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T O P I C R E V I E W |
Momodou |
Posted - 17 Jun 2021 : 21:57:14 GAMBIA-L Digest 7
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) a bit of news by <JDG.L.LANGE.LWCLK@CO.HENNEPIN.MN.US> 2) Draft Constitution released by Amadou Scattred Janneh <AJANNEH@pstcc.cc.tn.us> 3) Draft Constitution Released by Amadou Scattred Janneh <AJANNEH@pstcc.cc.tn.us> 4) Re: Draft Constitution released by Gabriel Ndow <gndow@auc.edu> 5) Re: Draft Constitution released by Amadou Scattred Janneh <AJANNEH@pstcc.cc.tn.us> 6) Re: Draft Constitution released by Amadou Scattred Janneh <AJANNEH@pstcc.cc.tn.us> 7) Introduction by Oumar Ndongo <ondongo@benfranklin.hnet.uci.edu> 8) Re: Introduction by "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu> 9) Greetings!! by Katim S. Touray <touray@hope.soils.wisc.edu> 10) Ooops!! by Katim S. Touray <touray@hope.soils.wisc.edu> 11) Re: multiple of issues by sarian@osmosys.incog.com (Sarian Loum) 12) by Amadou Scattred Janneh <AJANNEH@pstcc.cc.tn.us> 13) New email addresses by "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu> 14) Forwarded from Malandin by "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu> 15) Forwarded from Malanding by "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu> 16) Embassy in the "dark" by Amadou Scattred Janneh <AJANNEH@pstcc.cc.tn.us> 17) Forwarded from Omar Njie by "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu> 18) Embassy in the "dark" by <JDG.L.LANGE.LWCLK@CO.HENNEPIN.MN.US> 19) Re: Embassy in the "dark" by Gabriel Ndow <gndow@auc.edu> 20) Re: Forwarded from Malanding by sarian@osmosys.incog.com (Sarian Loum) 21) Re: Embassy in the "dark" by <JDG.L.LANGE.LWCLK@CO.HENNEPIN.MN.US> 22) Different email addresses by "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu> 23) Re: New email addresses by onjie@gemini.nlu.edu 24) contribution to the discussion on the Confederation by Oumar Ndongo <ondongo@benfranklin.hnet.uci.edu> 25) Stuff ... by Katim S. Touray <touray@hope.soils.wisc.edu> 26) Stuff ... by <JDG.L.LANGE.LWCLK@CO.HENNEPIN.MN.US> 27) Re: Forwarded from Malanding by "Roddie L. Cole" <rcole@ced.berkeley.edu> 28) Re: contribution to the discussion on the Confederation by "Roddie L. Cole" <rcole@ced.berkeley.edu> 29) Newspaper Publication Suspended by Amadou Scattred Janneh <AJANNEH@pstcc.cc.tn.us> 30) Re: Stuff ... by onjie@gemini.nlu.edu 31) Re: Stuff ... by <JDG.L.LANGE.LWCLK@CO.HENNEPIN.MN.US> 32) Error messages, the Gambian Independent press, and Insults ... by Katim S. Touray <touray@hope.soils.wisc.edu> 33) checking if forwarded message is through! by Oumar Ndongo <ondongo@benfranklin.hnet.uci.edu> 34) Re: Stuff ... by L Konteh <L.Konteh-95@student.lut.ac.uk> 35) Let's Move On by Amadou Scattred Janneh <AJANNEH@pstcc.cc.tn.us> 36) Draft Constitution? by Amadou Scattred Janneh <AJANNEH@pstcc.cc.tn.us> 37) Right to Free Speech by <JDG.L.LANGE.LWCLK@CO.HENNEPIN.MN.US> 38) Let's Move On by <JDG.L.LANGE.LWCLK@CO.HENNEPIN.MN.US> 39) Re: Let's Move On by Amadou Scattred Janneh <AJANNEH@pstcc.cc.tn.us> 40) Forward of Professor Ndongo's contribution to Senegambia confederation. by "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu> 41) democratic structures by ABDOU <at137@columbia.edu> 42) PHEW! PHEW! by <JDG.L.LANGE.LWCLK@CO.HENNEPIN.MN.US> 43) Gambia court convicts women over skin-bleaching (fwd) by "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu> 44) Hi there! by Katim S. Touray <touray@hope.soils.wisc.edu> 45) Re:Recruitment by L Konteh <L.Konteh-95@student.lut.ac.uk> 46) New Members by Amadou Scattred Janneh <AJANNEH@pstcc.cc.tn.us> 47) Re:Recruitment by "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu> 48) What's the use of a new constitution? by Oumar Ndongo <ondongo@benfranklin.hnet.uci.edu> 49) Forward of Malanding's response to Prof Ndongo by "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu> 50) Follow up response to Prof Ndongo by "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu> 51) Re: Follow up response to Prof Ndongo by binta@iuj.ac.jp 52) Re: Follow up response to Prof Ndongo by "Roddie L. Cole" <rcole@ced.berkeley.edu>
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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 96 11:51:47 CST From: <JDG.L.LANGE.LWCLK@CO.HENNEPIN.MN.US> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: a bit of news Message-ID: <9603111752.AA13344@mx5.u.washington.edu>
gambia-l:
According to AFP new service, March 9, 1996: 1) The new constitution has been released 2) Voting age has been reduced to 18 yrs. from 21 yrs. 3) Military conscription for "young people" is now mandatory. 4) The new constituion forsees a separation of powers (but, the president, vp, and ministers are acountable to parliament which can "use a censure vote to dismiss or penalise them.") 5) The report also indicates the elections are on track for July.
Does anyone have access to anyone who can download a copy of the whole document(the constitution) on the internet? Can the Gambia-l member(s) in the Gambia help provide the rest of us with a copy of the document?
Morro.
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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 13:04:35 -0500 (EST) From: Amadou Scattred Janneh <AJANNEH@pstcc.cc.tn.us> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Draft Constitution released Message-ID: <01I27OWUB4LU000EOU@PSTCC6.PSTCC.CC.TN.US>
I have mailed a PANA (Pan-African News Agency) story on the release of the Gambia's draft constitution. You can access PANA at http://www.afnews.org/ans
Peace! Amadou
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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 13:11:57 -0500 (EST) From: Amadou Scattred Janneh <AJANNEH@pstcc.cc.tn.us> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Draft Constitution Released Message-ID: <01I27P97FDR2000EOU@PSTCC6.PSTCC.CC.TN.US>
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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 15:32:34 -0500 From: Gabriel Ndow <gndow@auc.edu> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Draft Constitution released Message-ID: <199603112032.PAA19385@auc.edu>
The article on the draft constitution is interesting although like Morro, having a copy of the draft would be greatly beneficial. I did not see any mention of mandatoy conscription of young boys into the army in the article. While I await the full draft I just want to go on record to say that it is a foolish idea and a complete waste of time to send young boys to join the army! What are they going to do there? Prepare to defend the country? What a joke. Perhaps a suggestion to the brilliant minds that wrote this into the draft (probably coerced) (IF this business about mandatory conscription is true) - why not conscript young boys AND girls in SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY projects relevant to Gambia's development. As the saying goes, A MIND IS A TERRIBLE THING TO WASTE!!! GUNS! GUNS! GUNS!
Oh, by the way, there is also an article in PANA on the recently held conference on the 10th anniversary of the death of Cheikh Anta Diop in Senegal. The artile is entitled "A Federated Africa: The Continent's Unfinished Business". Check it out.
LatJor.
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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 19:47:37 -0500 (EST) From: Amadou Scattred Janneh <AJANNEH@pstcc.cc.tn.us> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Draft Constitution released Message-ID: <01I28302X5SM000J10@PSTCC6.PSTCC.CC.TN.US>
I can't agree more with LatJor! In fact, I am in favour of immediately dismantling the army as soon as a truly civilian, democratic administration assumes the helm. Get the soldiers access to vocational training; some could even be retrained to serve in some form of national guard with a vastly decentralized authority and structure.
Peace! Amadou.
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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 19:52:27 -0500 (EST) From: Amadou Scattred Janneh <AJANNEH@pstcc.cc.tn.us> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Draft Constitution released Message-ID: <01I28362I8WI000J10@PSTCC6.PSTCC.CC.TN.US>
Story available at the following address:
http://www.afnews.org/ans
Morro: I hope you can access this. Amadou
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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 17:05:37 -0800 (PST) From: Oumar Ndongo <ondongo@benfranklin.hnet.uci.edu> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Introduction Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.960311161256.9126A-100000@benfranklin.hnet.uci.edu>
Dear friends, Thank you for giving me the possibility to feel less isolated.I am Oumar Ndongo from Senegal.I am currently a Fulbright Senior scholar at the University of California,Irvine campus working on "The American Response to the Vietnam War in Fiction and Movies".My stay is due to finish this July and then, i go back to Senegal to Cheikh Anta Diop University where i teach American Literature and Civilization.I am an Associate professor. I am interested in hitory and social changes in the West African area in general, in the Senegambia, in particular.Before coming to the University, I taught English in secondary schools.In 1981,I left the ministry of National Education for the Ministry of The Armed Forces to serve as coordinator of studies in the newly created regular army officers'training school in Thies.I brought the civilian touch by developing a strong culture-oriented training program. I spent 11 years in that institution.In the meantime i defended a doctorat de troisieme cycle on American literature examinant warfare contexts in fiction. I have visited the Gambia on several occasions.First ,as a student of English, i did the trip with friends three times. Then as a teacher at Lycee Malick Sy -Thies, i took an important delegation of staff and students to Saint Augustine's High School.This left me with undying memories.Finally, as coordinator at ENOA,I took our officer cadets regularly to visit the confederal battalion and the Gambia.I felt the relationships deteriorating and was not surprised of the pull back.I had also in some of the classes we trained around 6 officers who joined the Gambian forces. I am interested in sharing with you on any topic of interest to our communities also to our group as concerned with the great changes when mentalities are not ready to take them.I 'll make a tautology but my opinion is my opinion.I'll give honest views which will reflect my shortcomings. If some of you are interested i'll talk to you about the West African Research Center in Dakar,a project to cover West Africa, between American and West African Scholars who want to exchange on West Africa. Today, it is quite a visible institution in Senegal and has to grow fast to other countries.For me the Gambia must be any easy step.I have worked in that center since its creation in 1992 and was able to spend 6 weeks in Hyderabad in India to see how to run a research center.Since money comes from the Americans the Director of the center is an American citizen and i work as programs officer.One of its objectives is to provide researchers with a network like the internet for easy access to information from every where. Hope to receive feeback from you.I promise to contribute whenever possible.
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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 17:37:02 -0800 (PST) From: "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu> To: Oumar Ndongo <ondongo@benfranklin.hnet.uci.edu> Cc: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Introduction Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.91l.960311172947.4850G-100000@saul2.u.washington.edu>
I want to take this opportunity to welcome Professor Omar Ndongo to Gambia-l and we are excited to have him on board as he will add a new perspective to this forum. During the past few weeks, we discussed the Senegambian Confederation and its eventual demise and disintegration and lots of reasons were given by different people. I am interested to hear a Senegalese perspective as to why things did not work out. If Professor Ndongo is interested, I can forward to him some past discussions on that topic, so that he can review what has already been said about it. Thanks Tony
========================================================================
Anthony W Loum tloum@u.washington.edu Supervisor, Business Administration Library 206-543-4360 voice 100 Balmer Hall 206-685-9392 fax University of Washington Box 353200 Seattle, Wa.98195-3200 =========================================================================
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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 96 21:19:53 CST From: Katim S. Touray <touray@hope.soils.wisc.edu> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Greetings!! Message-ID: <9603120319.AA01313@hope.soils.wisc.edu>
Hi folks,
i've been following discussions on the list, but my hectic schedule has prevented me from replying right away.
let me say that i've been hearing a couple from and about The Gambia on various programs on BBCs' African service, namely 'Focus on Africa', and 'Network Africa'. last week, for example, i heard a report to the effect that all owners of private newspapers were summoned to court by the govt. to answer charges of failing to comply with a 1944 (yep, 1944) law which stipulates that press owners should register their papers annually. which is fine. according to the report though, press owners were also supposed to post a D100,000 (one hundred thousand Dalasis) bond by Friday (that's last weeks Friday), or face closure.
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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 96 21:43:05 CST From: Katim S. Touray <touray@hope.soils.wisc.edu> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Ooops!! Message-ID: <9603120343.AA01332@hope.soils.wisc.edu>
Hi folks,
sorry for the mixup. my last mail got cut up by some errant keystrokes. anyway as i was saying ...
the editor of the 'Daily Observer' mentioned in an interview on 'Focus on Africa' this afternoon that they had all posted the D100,000 bonds that were to be posted. however, the govt. (specifically the Ministry of Justice) did not want to accept the bonds. the net effect of this is that there were no independent papers published in The Gambia today. and God knows for how long this news blackout is going to continue. it is unfortunate that the AFPRC govt. is throwing up all kinds of obstacles in the way of the media in their efforts to discharge their duties to the country. this is especially sad in light of the fact that the transition program calls for ample, level- headed discussion of the issues the country faces.
i also listened to a 30-min special on The Gambia on the BBC's African service early this past Saturday. they had a very interesting debate between Pap Che Yassin Secka, Sara Janha (the former Secretary General), and a Ghanian journalist who lived in The Gambia, and wrote a book about the july '94 coup. it was very interesting to listen to especially because of the diverse backgrounds of the participants. Mr. Secka, has an ax to grind with Jawara, Mr. Janha had a credibility problem, having been so intimate with the Jawara govt., and the Ghanaian looking at all this from a slightly removed perspective. i found it particularly worrying that in the debate about the possibility of Captain Jammeh running for office, it seemed that it was up to the guy to decide. i say: the constitution should explicitly say that anyone under 40 or 45 years of age should not run for the office of the President. period. that way, Captain Jammeh doesn't have to decide, the constitution does.
speaking of the constitution, i've said, and i'll say again, i think it was an absolute waste of money to embark on a constitution re-writing excercise. the fact of the matter is that the AFPRC desperately needed something thing to hold on to as reason for them overthrow Jawara. so when this great idea of fixing the constitution came up, they threw themselves at it with relish. ofcourse, the constitution had long since been revoked by them. a constitution in whose eyes these guys were criminals. imagine a thief offering to fix your windows or locks for you. you get the picture?
anyway, i'm of the opinion that now's the time to stay on top of things. which brings me to the issue, again, of subscriptions to the list. like i said, i've said before, i have no qualms about anyone subscribing to the list. we have to have a way of continuing the dialogue, and i think it would be great if these guys, through their representatives know for a fact that there are people out there who are pissed at what they are doing.
i gotta be running in a minute here. i'll obviously be looking forward to your replies, and we can pick up the debates from there on. but before i go, i'd like to welcome brother Ndongo to the list, and wish him a valuable experience.
hey, have a great weekend everyone,
Katim
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Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 19:37:02 -0800 From: sarian@osmosys.incog.com (Sarian Loum) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: multiple of issues Message-ID: <199603120337.TAA08757@thesky.incog.com>
Hello,
I honestly doubt Lamin's statement about being informally told what the central authorities think about us and about the way they are doing things at home. One think we keep forgetting is that the embassy works for the military guys and so, owe their allegiance to them and not what we members think or feel about how the government is operating. After all they are appointed by the kakhi boys and for fear of being recalled and or reprimanded we may not get the whole truth from them. It would seem obvious that they would want to protect their jobs and look out for oneself.
I also think we're forgetting that African democracy doesn't work quite the same as America or Europe. I think Jawarra did a heck of a job of fooling the outside world that Democracy prevailed in Gambia, but we know better than that because one could not publicly criticized the Jawara regime and got away with it. That in my opinion is not true democracy, and Gambia clearly lacked freedom of speech for fear that government will go after you and or someone dear to your heart. I don't condone military rule but it was high time somebody put an end to this suffering/injustice Gambians went thru for over 32 years and are still going thru. I still stand by my point that we were better off during colonialism because quite frankly I don't know what we've gained from being an independent nation. We've grown from bad to worse e.g. lack of health facilities, education, agric. infrastructure, electricity, water etc.
As far as the military boys are concerned they have overstayed their welcome, they would have been pronounced heros if they had long since return the country to civilian rule. But Jammeh craves power just like any other African head of state and so would be really surprised if he voluntarily returns to farming or go back to the barracks. Africans love power and so to give it up willingly without any struggle is something I yet have to see. Nonetheless we should give him some credit for atleast cleaning up a little bit and reclaiming some of the countrys assets. Whether they'll be or are already guilty of the same crime the Jawarra regime is accused of is something to closely monitor, especially when we don't know where the foreign aid is coming from and how much (from God) is something to be highly suspicious of. Gambians have a right to know where and how much aid is coming into the country and a broadcast of how these funds are disbursed or for what projects they are used against. Ok enough rambling, getting late.
Sarian
> From GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu Sat Mar 9 23:03 PST 1996 > Date: Sun, 10 Mar 1996 15:57:55 > From: binta@iuj.ac.jp > To: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> > Subject: Re: multiple of issues > Mime-Version: 1.0 > X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN > > Hi all, > > Abdou's concerns may be a bit on the high side, but I think there is > something we can learn from what he wrote. The list should be made > open to as many people as possible. However, the list should not be > taken for granted and used as a one-way communication medium like the > radio or TV. On the contrary, all members should try and contribute to > the discussions. What can we think of a member who has not even > introduced him/herself? Are those people interested in discourse, or > do they intend to be mere readers. > > I want to suggest that,if possible, every potential member must first > send an intro to the subscription managers before he can be added to > the list. This suggestion did not spring out of fear, rather it will > act as a true indication of one's intentions to join the group as a > discussant and not only a reader. This is a participative discussion > group for all to share ideas and opinions. > > Let us permit the embassy to join the group. In this way we may be > able to know, informally though, what the central authorities think > about us and about the way they are doing things at home. > > The Gambia in arrears? Is it very surprising to us? It does not > surprise me that much. Let us reorder our priorities! > > Lamin Drammeh. >
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Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 08:13:03 -0500 (EST) From: Amadou Scattred Janneh <AJANNEH@pstcc.cc.tn.us> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Message-ID: <01I28T0RWO8I000PLX@PSTCC6.PSTCC.CC.TN.US>
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Panafrican News Agency News Stories | Environment | Economics | Science and Health | Sports | Africa Press Review 11 MAR 96 - GAMBIA-CONSTITUTION GAMBIA GETS NEW DRAFT CONSTITITION From Ebrima Sagnia; PANA Correspondent BANJUL, Gambia (PANA) - Gambia has published a draft constitution which gives supremacy to the National Assembly. Reporting on the document Monday, the Gambia News Agency, GAMNA, said the assembly will be "the supreme instrument of the will of the people." Under the draft, to be adopted by a referendum, the assembly will be vested with powers to censure the President, Vice-President and Secretaries of State -- the proposed new title for ministers. The draft is the outcome of a review of the country's 1970 constitution by a commission appointed by Capt. Yahya Jammeh's Armed Forces Provitional Ruling Council (AFPRC) on April 10, 1995. Jammeh came to power on July 22, 1994, after toppling the former President Dawda Kairaba Jawara, who had ruled the West African state for 30 years. According to the new draft, the House will also have the authority to dismiss the leaders from office. The main provisions of the draft were published last Friday by the AFPRC. The draft reaffirms fundamental rights and freedoms and extends them to include those of women, children and the disabled. It provides for universal adult suffrage in a multiparty system and lowers the voting age from 21 to 18. The document envisages the creation an Independent Electoral Commission vested with the responsibility for administration, supervision and monitoring of elections as well as the activities of political parties. Under the new constitution, the powers of the executive, legislature and judiciary are to be separated. It empowers the president to appoint the secretaries of state. However, the secretaries of state cannot be members of the national assembly. After an 18-month transition period, the judiciary will be "freed from the appellate jurisdiction of the Privy Council in England," says the draft. It also envisages the expansion of the country's Islamic Court to a panel of three judges (Cadis) qualified in Sharia law, with a review or appellate panel consisting of five persons well schooled in the Sharia law. "In addition, a litigant in the Cadi's Court will be entitled to representation by a person qualified in Sharia Law," says the draft constitution. It envisages the institution of an Ombudsman "to guard against maladministration, mismanagement and discriminatory practices in any government department, authority or other public body." There will also be a new special court "to guard against the recurrence of the corruption of the past 30 years by giving it the powers and effective procedures utilised in the Armed Forces Provisional Ruling Council Commissions." The commissions of enquiry set up by Capt. Yahya Jammeh's regime have been retained under the new draft's basic law. Their work will be "to continue and complete surgery on the cankerworm of political and bureaucratic corruption and graft implanted by the decadent PPP regime and its cohorts into the public life of this beloved country." The draft document also affirms and guarantees the independence of the press and other information media. In a press release broadcast on national radio on Friday, the AFPRC said it "and all members of cabinet have unanimously agreed on the provisions of the constitution." It said the draft constitution will "now be released to the Gambian people for further discussion and adoption in a referendum which will take place at a date which shall be made public." _________________________________________________________________ AFRICA NEWS Online The NandO Times
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Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 09:06:38 -0800 (PST) From: "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu> To: Gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: New email addresses Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.91l.960312085137.18743B-100000@saul7.u.washington.edu>
Hi Everybody,
Katim and myself have been receiving error messages of rejected postings by the list from members writing with new email addresses that is different from the one that they are currently subscribed under in Gambia-l. Yesterday, a posting from Omar Njie was rejected and Malanding's latest two contributions resulted in error messages. The reasons was that they were using different email addresses from the one in Gambia-l. I have forwarded Omar's message yesterday but I doubt whether it went through the list because I did not receive a copy of it. So, Omar if you can retrieve that message from your sent mail file and repost it with your the other address in Gambia-l, it will be appreciated. You made some good points that refuted Sammy's allegation about the fairness of elections in The Gambia by pointing out the 1982 elections at Mbollet Ba. I will refoward Malanding's latest. Anyway, the point is that if you change your email address from what is now in Gambia-l, you have to tell the subscription managers know so that they will update it with the new one. In that way, we will prevent the error messages and the postings getting through to everyone. Or if you want to operate with more than one address, again you have to inform the subscription managers to add the new ones also. Thanks Tony
========================================================================
Anthony W Loum tloum@u.washington.edu Supervisor, Business Administration Library 206-543-4360 voice 100 Balmer Hall 206-685-9392 fax University of Washington Box 353200 Seattle, Wa.98195-3200 =========================================================================
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Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 10:00:43 -0800 (PST) From: "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu> To: Gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Forwarded from Malandin Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.91l.960312095533.22652D-100000@saul5.u.washington.edu>
I do not think that forwarded error messages are getting through to the list. So I am trying it on a different way. This is written by Malanding. Thanks Tony
I am very much amused by the newly found alliance between Mr Secka and Mr Janha.
On the other side of the story, Katim I do not believe that there should me any such thing as age limit to bar anyone from taking office.Young people can be as effective as old ones if the desire to do well is there. We have witnessed 70 year-old Jawara and his Cabinet of abve 50s lead the country astray.
What the constitution should have and I am sure it missed that is nobody with criminal record (especially one against the state) should be allowed to participate in public life. That is what creates discipline in the society. If everyone see that they will be honoured and rewarded when they break the law everybody will break the law. The same goes back to the behaviour of the Jawara regime. Misuse of public funds, indescent behavior by public officers (fathers to many kids by many teenage mother and many more) were rewarded with promotions and easy retirements, led to an all-said-and done proverb that Sammy talked about.
Rewarding criminals ie those who use force to put themselves in power and suspend the constitution by accepting the changes they made to the constitution and even allowing them to participate in elections would only tempt other potential criminals on the sideline.
If we want to ensure no further coupes, this socalled revision of the constitution should not be recognized. May be extreme but I am yet to be convinced by anyone the need to revised the constitution.
Bye now.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 10:04:18 -0800 (PST) From: "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu> To: Gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Forwarded from Malanding Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.91l.960312100129.17224A-100000@saul5.u.washington.edu>
From Malanding
Sarian, You have said dome valid piont about being better off in colonial days than now. My thought about that is being better off in colonial times does not make colonialism better than self rule. To Lamin and other concern about official monitoring, we should be aware that we are not here to impress anybody. In order to impress the government you have to join them. Many members of this list atleast personally do not share the same view as the military boys. As a result I am and will be critical of them. In my heart I am doing what is good for the country and not what is good for the military boys or myself. Anyway have a good day
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 13:11:33 -0500 (EST) From: Amadou Scattred Janneh <AJANNEH@pstcc.cc.tn.us> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Embassy in the "dark" Message-ID: <01I293FQJNMQ000HHN@PSTCC6.PSTCC.CC.TN.US>
Fellows: I found it quite amazing that even the Gambian Embassy in the US is not aware of the release of the draft constitution. I asked Tombong Saidy for a copy so that I can distribute it to the list and to enable us to better analyse the document. He has just now tried to reach Pap Cheyassin Secka to see if he can get a copy.
My perception is that he is already disenchanted with his bosses.
Let's wait for the draft to discuss some of the most contentious elements of both the transition and the constitution. Who is eligible to compete? Why military conscription? etc.
Let our voices be heard. And we must act if we feel strongly about any aspect of our national life.
Peace! Amadou.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 11:00:33 -0800 (PST) From: "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu> To: Gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Forwarded from Omar Njie Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.91l.960312105329.22652E-100000@saul5.u.washington.edu>
This was written yesterday by Omar Njie. Thanks Tony
> All candidates were present at polling > stations and at the counting of ballots by mostly > unbiased civil servants (my dad and a number of my > friends have been polling officers and followed the > law to the letter) to guarantee fairness. > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------- > The physical voting is the last stage in the electoral process. It includes mass education > (of citizen voting rights), voter registration, and campaigning. During the
mass education > (of citizen voting rights), voter registration, and campaigning. During the PPP regime, > we've heard of foreigners voting and people using street names and addresses that are > non existent. The PPP had the some access of Radio Gambia. These instances does not > even portray even near fair elections. > > During the 1982 elections, Jane C. Faye (an Independent candidate) in Lower Niumi was > expected to defeat Dodou Ngum (a PPP candidate). During Jawara's visit to Mbollet Ba > (Jane's campaign headquarters), a couple his supporters were arrested for no apparent > reason. This created a lot of panic in the area and for that reason, a lot of people ended > up voting for Ngum. How do you call that fair and free elections. >mass education > (of citizen voting rights), voter registration, and campaigning. During the PPP regime, > we've heard of foreigners voting and people using street names and addresses that are > non existent. The PPP had the some access of Radio Gambia. These instances does not > even portray even near fair elections. > > During the 1982 elections, Jane C. Faye (an Independent candidate) in Lower Niumi was > expected to defeat Dodou Ngum (a PPP candidate). During Jawara's visit to Mbollet Ba > (Jane's campaign headquarters), a couple his supporters were arrested for no apparent > reason. This created a lot of panic in the area and for that reason, a lot of people ended-- > up voting for Ngum. How do you call that fair and free elections.
up voting for Ngum. How do you call that fair and free elections. > > Another issue: I do not condone any form of government that got in power against the will > of the people. However, it was Jawara's time to go!!! Even if his government was a > "good" one, 30 years of governance was just too long. Human beings are also subject of > the "law of diminishing returns". One's productivity declines after a given period. Jawara > would have exhausted his productive initiatives. > > Most of us would not have been abroad had it not been of Jawara's bad strategic policies. > It's sad that the highest educational institution the PPP can boost of is the Gambia > College; or may I say the Sixth Form. We all heard of the huge sums of funds spend on > the eve of Gambia's silver jublie; an estimated amount of D25 million. On
spend on > the eve of Gambia's silver jublie; an estimated amount of D25 million. On that day (Feb. > 18, 1990), a school boy, a tourist and a civilian were accidentally shot by a soldier > controlling the crowd at the stadium. They were unable to get an ambulance 'cause the > ones available at the stadium were meant to escort Jawara. They were rushed to Banjul > in a van. The tourist died on the way. The school boy and the civilian had to wait a > couple of days at the RVH while they try to fix the equipment that was supposed to be > used to remove the bullets. > > On the present transition, I agree with a number of you fellas in that Jammeh is not gonna > give up power. This is being realistic. I hope we are all dead wrong!!!!
The unfortunate > thing is that this cycle of military coups one's started will continue. We never needed an > army in the first place. To protect the country against who? Senegal? All we need is a > very strong police force to maintain internal law and order. The army was as a result of > Jawara's lack of vision ... > Well, I will continue form here another time. Got to go take an exam in the next 3 hours > > Omar. >
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 96 13:31:11 CST From: <JDG.L.LANGE.LWCLK@CO.HENNEPIN.MN.US> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Embassy in the "dark" Message-ID: <9603121931.AA29924@mx5.u.washington.edu>
Amadou:
It might just be that Tombong does not want to provide you with a copy; reason--he knows you will be critical. (Sometime ago, I asked him for a copy of the decrees of the AFPRC, he didn't have those either.) What do you exepct from an ******* . . . ?
Morro.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 16:27:26 -0500 From: Gabriel Ndow <gndow@auc.edu> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Embassy in the "dark" Message-ID: <199603122127.QAA22463@auc.edu>
Greetings:
I spoke to Tombong Saidy yesterday and he told be that the ban on political parties will be lifted in MAY. The elections will be in July. TWO MONTHS LATER! Can it be said now that some folks are stacking the deck heavily on their side?
I cautiously agree with Amadou that Tombong may be in the dark about many issuespertaining to the regime. My reason (this is purely speculative) is based on my personal dealings with him and the Embassy. Here is an example:
When he was first given his new appointment (which in my opinion he lobbied for)he called me the same day to solicit my advice. He told me that he wanted to help steer the country in the right direction and one can only do that effectively by being close to the junta to influence their decision-making process. I told him point blank that the position would require him to act as a spokeman of the regime. He stated that as long as his Principles were not violated he does not mind speaking on behalf of the regime. I told him that would be very difficult to do, but wished him well.
The ensuing months made it clear to me that he was perhaps being used as a tool by the regime. He was often being by-passed in the very process he wished to be a part of. A case in point:
Two weeks prior to the visit of the AFPRC delegation that was originally supposed to go to the UN 50th Anniversary, he called me to tell me that the delegation would also be touring the US (Washington DC and Atlanta) and they were requesting to have a Town Hall meeting in Atlanta. He wanted to know if I could set it up.(We have had the opportunity here in Atlanta to have a public meeting with Jawara and Pap Che Yasin Secka on two separate occassions.) So having the AFPRC representatives Vice Chairman Captain Singhateh, Minister of Foreign Affairs Blaise Jagne and Tombong, as well as others, have a forum in Atlanta was something I welcomed.
Needless to say, after receiving numerous faxes from the Embassy informing me ofthe number of delegates coming (first it was 21 then it was cut to 14 then 9), as well as Singhateh not being able to make the trip (no reasons given), and other miscellaneous items I got a call from another source the the delegation was not going to come to Atlanta. In fact they would not even be going to Washington D.C.! This was the night before the meeting was scheduled to take place! Tombong never called me. I had to call him, then he apologized saying that it was a last minute decision. That the delegation was asked to return as soon as their mission to the UN was over.
So you see, it is occurrences like this which make me conclude that he may be in the dark on many issues concerning actions of the regime.
Finally, I would like to welcome Prof. Ndongo to our group, and look forward to fruitful discussions with you.
LatJor
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 13:48:47 -0800 From: sarian@osmosys.incog.com (Sarian Loum) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Forwarded from Malanding Message-ID: <199603122148.NAA09088@thesky.incog.com>
Well Malanding,
I still stand by my arguement that we were better off because who are we fooling? Not ourselves we all once lived in Gambia and seen how we grew from bad to worse, I don't see what we gained from being on our own except self destruction. Only a minority of the population enjoyed elitism while the rest of the nation suffered like hell. And yes, I totaly agree with you about the military boys but we should be fair in our criticism and give credit where credit is due and this applies to both the military boys and the Jawarra regime. So if there's a staunch supporter of Jawarra and/or the military boys, just hope you can take the heat.
Sarian > From GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu Tue Mar 12 10:12 PST 1996 > Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 10:04:18 -0800 (PST) > From: "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu> > To: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> > Subject: Forwarded from Malanding > Mime-Version: 1.0 > X-To: Gambia-l@u.washington.edu > X-Sender: tloum@saul5.u.washington.edu > X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN > > > > From Malanding > > > > Sarian, You have said dome valid piont about being better off in > colonial days than now. My thought about that is being better off in > colonial times does not make colonialism better than self rule. > To Lamin and other concern about official monitoring, we should be > aware that we are not here to impress anybody. In order to impress > the government you have to join them. Many members of this list > atleast personally do not share the same view as the military boys. > As a result I am and will be critical of them. In my heart I am doing > what is good for the country and not what is good for the military > boys or myself. > Anyway have a good day > >
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 96 16:29:22 CST From: <JDG.L.LANGE.LWCLK@CO.HENNEPIN.MN.US> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Embassy in the "dark" Message-ID: <9603122229.AA25152@mx5.u.washington.edu>
Latjor:
Notwithstanding your generosity to Tombong, I still think he is an opportunist and an *******. . . Worse, I think he is part of a murderous gang.
Morro.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 14:43:28 -0800 (PST) From: "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu> To: Gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Different email addresses Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.91l.960312144023.20576B-100000@saul1.u.washington.edu>
I have gone ahead and added Omar Njie's new address onjie@socrates.nlu.edu to cut down on the error messages. So Omar, if you have both accounts active, you will be receiving Gambia-l postings on each one. Thanks Tony
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 96 22:57:00 WET From: onjie@gemini.nlu.edu To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: New email addresses Message-ID: <9603122257.AA16905@ gemini.nlu.edu >
Tony:
I still maintain the same address I initially registered on the mail listings. I'm not sure if I know what caused the error message.
Omar.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 15:41:50 -0800 (PST) From: Oumar Ndongo <ondongo@benfranklin.hnet.uci.edu> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: contribution to the discussion on the Confederation Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.960312152309.14911A-100000@benfranklin.hnet.uci.edu>
Hi,Mbokka! As requested by Tony,i promise to make a delivery on "The Senegambian Confederation".You will receive it either tomorrow or the day after tomorrow.I have an important text to finish which makes it difficult for me to catch up with the pace.I was going to ask you to call me Omar since Gambians don't like ndongos.As i can see there is already one Omar.What about calling me Oumar, then? Thanks Oumar
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 96 17:58:22 CST From: Katim S. Touray <touray@hope.soils.wisc.edu> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Stuff ... Message-ID: <9603122358.AA01951@hope.soils.wisc.edu>
Hi folks,
i'm writing regarding a couple of issues:
1. it seems the military guys have presided over a very interesting draft of our constitution. i'm gonna have to take a close look at what we know about it before i chip in my 2 buttuts worth of opinion.
2. i notice Morro call Mr. Saidy an opportunist, and the 'a' word. while Morro has a geninuine right to his opinions about other people, i would like us to remember that we are not doing this thing to call people names. i think we owe it to ourselves and our credibility to maintained as reasoned and thought out, even if passionate, positions as is possible. Mr. Saidy will have all rights to say, after seeing Morros' last posting, that we are using the networks to slander him. this is especially undesirable in light of the fact that the guy has no means to defend himself on our forum. to cut a long story short: i would like us all to ask ourself the simple question: would what i'm about to say make me upset if it was said about me, in fairness?
3. Sarian had a problem setting her mail to ACK. you'll notice Sarian that you forgot one word, 'mail' in the command you sent. again, the command is:
set gambia-l mail ack
this ofcourse should be sent to: listproc@u.washington.edu, with nothing in the subject field.
i guess that's about all for now. have a great week everyone, and keep it coming!
bye, Katim
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 96 18:54:41 CST From: <JDG.L.LANGE.LWCLK@CO.HENNEPIN.MN.US> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Stuff ... Message-ID: <9603130054.AA14114@mx5.u.washington.edu>
Kaitm:
With all due repect Katim, "slander" is a legal term to which truth is an absolute defense. After 2 years of this dictatorships, my loss of rights and freedoms, several murders not to mention tortures, I cannot be about "nice." All I have is my word and my word is he is an *******.
Morro
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 18:52:41 -0800 (PST) From: "Roddie L. Cole" <rcole@ced.berkeley.edu> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Cc: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Forwarded from Malanding Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.90.960312184104.4297A-100000@chabot.ced.berkeley.edu>
I'm not really sure where you are going with your argument. Are you seriously suggesting that Gambia's public policy be debated and decisions taken in Westminister; that they should decide how our tax dalasis (such as those are) are spent, and so on? While I an not one of those that seek to ascribe all of Africa's problems to colonialism, there is no doubt it played a major role in distorting the regional economy and skewing the mode of Africa's entry into world markets (see Ali Mazrui's "The Africans").
Sam: An eloquent contribution. I agree with a previous contribution that to focus on what happened at the ballot box (during the Jawara regime) would be to miss the point altogether. Where the common pool of resources (media, transportation, foreign aid such as bags of rice, etc.)is deployed to ensure the longevity of the ruling party at the expense of others, then power is "captured" long before the masses get to the ballot box.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 18:58:26 -0800 (PST) From: "Roddie L. Cole" <rcole@ced.berkeley.edu> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Cc: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: contribution to the discussion on the Confederation Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.90.960312185656.4297B-100000@chabot.ced.berkeley.edu>
I brace myself for the onslaught from half-dyers!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 17:19:26 -0500 (EST) From: Amadou Scattred Janneh <AJANNEH@pstcc.cc.tn.us> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Newspaper Publication Suspended Message-ID: <01I29C3KOXVM000Q8B@PSTCC6.PSTCC.CC.TN.US>
BANJUL, March 11 (Reuter) - Gambia's seven independent newspapers have suspended publication pending approval from the military government under new conditions which include a $10,000 bond, editors said Monday.
The government raised the value of the bond to 100,000 dalasis from 1,000 dalasis last month. The country's seven independent newspapers signed the bond on Friday and say they are now waiting for the justice ministry to grant them approval.
The government of Captain Yahya Jammeh, who took power in a coup in July 1994, has clamped down on the country's newspapers. Earlier this month an official order told the government printing department to stop printing private newspapers.
--------------
I AM TIRED FOLKS! The story goes on to detail the AFPRC's suppression of journalists: (1) the expulsions of Kenneth Best and Justice Fofanah (2) harassment of Pap Saine et al. and so on
It's AMADOU PEACE!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 96 18:02:11 WET From: onjie@gemini.nlu.edu To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Stuff ... Message-ID: <9603131802.AA18113@ gemini.nlu.edu >
>After 2 years of this dictatorships, my loss of rights >and freedoms, several murders not to mention tortures, I cannot be about >"nice."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Morro:
One can never be "nice" to any dictator who denies any human beings their basic rights and freedoms. It's ok to disagree with a person or a group of people. However, I agree with Katim. This should be a forum for intellectual discussion where we can exchange ideas and learn from each other and not restoring to insulting other people. I can understand the temptation to do the latter.
Omar.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 96 13:41:30 CST From: <JDG.L.LANGE.LWCLK@CO.HENNEPIN.MN.US> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Stuff ... Message-ID: <9603131942.AA20659@mx3.u.washington.edu>
Omar:
One who kills and tortues me and my kind should be thankful that my only retribution is an "insult." This was my right yesterday and remains my right today . . . or have YOU restrained me of that too?
Morro.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 96 17:56:12 CST From: Katim S. Touray <touray@hope.soils.wisc.edu> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Error messages, the Gambian Independent press, and Insults ... Message-ID: <9603132356.AA03141@hope.soils.wisc.edu>
Hi folks,
i would like to touch on a number of issues:
1. error messages about e-mail addresses have been cropping up. i noticed that sometimes these go away if ignored. but then others crop up. for example, i've noticed error messages about Malandings' address, and Amadous'. i think (but i'm not sure) that this might have something to do with the speed with which mail servers respond to 'listproc' requests for services. thus, if the computer at Malandings' fails to repond within a certain time frame, this is interpreted as a wrong address. subsequent tries might go through and hence, no more errors. where the errors messages persist, i think we have a more serious problem, like temporary account closure.
the other issue in this regard is relates to those of us who have more than one e-mail address they can send mail from. like Tony said the other day, we can configure the list (or so the manual says) to all you to register one address but be able to send mail to the list from as many sites as you want. this will prevent sending you multiple copies to your many e-mail addresses. you'll, ofcourse, be responsible for managing mail at your end. that is, mail coming to your registered addressed will have to be forwarded to whatever address you want by yourself.
2. the Gambian Independent press. i noticed that the last mail i sent was supposed to be the completion of aborted mail. this was why i put 'Ooops' in the Subject field. what i started saying in the aborted mail was the essence of Amadous' posting. if i remember correctly, yesterdays' (tuesday) edition of 'Focus on Africa' included an interview with the editor of the 'Observer' newspaper, in which he was saying that no paper had been published.
i found it interesting that Amadou was getting 'tired' (laugh). please don't!. needless to say, the task faced by The Gambia is pretty daunting. however, i have absolutely no doubt that we can fix things. which reminds me of a small incident: a few years ago, i was with a couple of guys (one faculty and computer technician here in Madison) installing a new hard disk on a computer. i noticed that the disk was made in Singapore, and i asked them whether they would consider buying a hard disk made in The Gambia. they laughed their heads off!. i rolled with laughter. see, they were laughing at me, but i was laughing at *them*. they thought i was out of my mind to think it feasible that The Gambia will ever get to when it can export computer hard disks. and i was laughing at them for being shortsighted enough to miss the potential of a nation, small as The Gambia is. so we all had fun. and i know, too, that the Detroit car makers laughed at the Japanese when they first attempted to export cars to the US. now look who's laughing. the point i'm trying to make in this rather long paragraph is that we'll have to get up and chip in our 2 buttuts (make that Dalasis) worth of efforts. the AFPRC should not, must not, and cannot be allowed to enjoy a monopoly on ideas and initiative.
so what's do i think about how we should proceed?. well, let me think ... (seriously, i'll send you guys some serious proposals pretty soon).
3. the right to Insults. i mentioned in my posting yesterday that we should refrain from name calling on the list. i understand some of us have genuine concerns, anger, frustrations, and such regarding the AFPRC regime, and their representatives. those are understandable human feelings, and if anyone feels they have a right to reply to their actions in a way they deem fit, that's fine too.
what's not fine, though, is to use the forum of our mailing list to haul insults at anybody, including the AFPRC, and their representatives. to suggest, as Morro did, that one has a right to 'insult' them, because they did whatever to whoever you care about just simply won't fly here. the fact of the matter is that while free speech is more than in abundance in this country, no one has a right to any medium, including our list. like i said yesterday, and still maintain, we have to aim and work toward being fair to everyone, even our adversaries. remember we have no enemies?. i hope this clears up the atmosphere, and that we can all get back to the great debates we've been having here.
that's all for now, and on that note, i'd like to wish y'all a great rest- of-the-week.
bye, Katim A A j
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 1996 15:52:19 -0800 (PST) From: Oumar Ndongo <ondongo@benfranklin.hnet.uci.edu> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: checking if forwarded message is through! Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.960313154213.28496B-100000@benfranklin.hnet.uci.edu>
Hi,folks, I sent my contribution on the confederation just before 2:00 p.m. and had it back to me for unrecoverable error. Then ,i found what i thought was the error, sent the undelivered message through "forward" but never got it again.Can you tell me if i am through with the forwarded texts.I'll be really frustrated if nobody got them.It was my fault. Hope to hear from anybody who has received a text from Oumar\Senegal.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 96 9:58:22 GMT From: L Konteh <L.Konteh-95@student.lut.ac.uk> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Stuff ... Message-ID: <9603140958.AA06953@hpl.lut.ac.uk>
Morro,
I understand your situation and i am with you on that one. Sorry Katim, i think the guy is right. Lang
> > Omar: > > One who kills and tortues me and my kind should be thankful that my only > retribution is an "insult." This was my right yesterday and remains my right > today . . . or have YOU restrained me of that too? > > Morro. >
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 09:27:22 -0500 (EST) From: Amadou Scattred Janneh <AJANNEH@pstcc.cc.tn.us> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Let's Move On Message-ID: <01I2BO7GPY06000NBT@PSTCC6.PSTCC.CC.TN.US>
There is no need to waste our energies on the issue of appropriate language in the exchange of views and information on the "net."
My rule is not to respond at all if I do not deem the language appropriate. I also address my comments to the group rather than to individual members of the list. When I need to "insult" Jammeh, Jawara, etc., I direct my statements to them directly using faxes or the mass media.
Let's move on and talk about the great issues confronting our nation with some modicum of civility.
Peace! Amadou.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 09:35:19 -0500 (EST) From: Amadou Scattred Janneh <AJANNEH@pstcc.cc.tn.us> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Draft Constitution? Message-ID: <01I2BOGVYD8C000NBT@PSTCC6.PSTCC.CC.TN.US>
Does any one have a copy of the draft constitution yet?
DROP "directly" FROM MY LAST MESSAGE.
Amadou.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 96 09:33:08 CST From: <JDG.L.LANGE.LWCLK@CO.HENNEPIN.MN.US> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Right to Free Speech Message-ID: <9603141533.AA02544@mx3.u.washington.edu>
Katim:
The logic of this debate boggles my mind. But the great thing about "rights" is that they are not held at the pleasure of the majority. Moreover, you have accused AFPRC of treason; others have called them murders; I call them *******s. It would seem to me that by the nature of your charges, you would have them jailed or shot. I merely hurt their feelings. Now, you wanna rethink your moral outrage? While I commend your moral fortitude, I beleive it is misplaced. (hahaha!!!)
Morro.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 96 09:51:43 CST From: <JDG.L.LANGE.LWCLK@CO.HENNEPIN.MN.US> To: Gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Let's Move On Message-ID: <9603141551.AA04547@mx3.u.washington.edu>
Amadou:
I agree we should move on not because this is a frivolous issue, but because I always thought this is a well settled area in free societies, including Gambia-l. I do believe the whole debate goes to our level of tolerance for those who are different, outrageous and even unwise. It tells a tale of a people for whom a constitution is less binding than emotions--AFPRC overthrew our constitutional govt. because it could (emotion); not because it should have (the rule of law forbid it). Here I am being told not to use my choice of words not becuase it legally impermissible, but because it "offends" those who have done great violence to my life, my country and my people.
I have been told in this forum that Jawara ruled for as long as he did because we failed to challenge him. We were silent. Never again will I be restrained of my liberties because I am retrained in my speech. Even at the cost of losing friends like you.
Morro.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 13:21:30 -0500 (EST) From: Amadou Scattred Janneh <AJANNEH@pstcc.cc.tn.us> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Let's Move On Message-ID: <01I2BWEE970I0012UD@PSTCC6.PSTCC.CC.TN.US>
Morro:
Not to worry, you won't lose me! I have engaged in far more controversial debates with my father without losing any sleep over it. He was a member of the NCP; and I was very critical of the NCP, PPP, etc. Because of his fallout with the Jawara regime, he now solidly supports the AFPRC. On the other hand, I have written extensively about the undemocratic character of the AFPRC--even to the point of sending faxes threatening some form of direct action against the regime. And "No" I was not silent during the years of corruption and misrule. As late as March 1992 I published a magazine ("Afrika") that was quite critical of the PPP regime. Sarjo Bojang (on this list) was one of my subscribers.
The point is that I am tolerant; and words would not dampen my relationship with any one. Of course, if you punch me in the nose, then we will have a different problem.
Peace (as always)! Take care. Amadou
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Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 11:30:54 -0800 (PST) From: "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu> To: Gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Forward of Professor Ndongo's contribution to Senegambia confederation. Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.91l.960314111410.32123A-100000@saul2.u.washington.edu>
I am forwarding this posting from Oumar because the original ended up in an error message and I do not think that the rest of list received it. Oumar, I will send the other contributions on this issue from the past by members of the list, so that you can see diverse Gambian perspectives.
Hi, > I'm sorry to take you back to a story which seemed closed.Tony offered to > give me some feedback on how you approached the problem.I did not request > it but i think i'll need it later to have your perspectives in addition > to the ones you'll make as a response to my contribution.I apologize also > if at times i get to stereotypical attitudes which abound in Senegambian > relationships.I'll elaborate first what i think has happened in Senegal, > the context,then i'll go onto what i think made the Gambians pull back.My > thesis is that the Senegambian Confederation was short-lived because it > was built on fear(to have a regime in the Gambia which could be > uncooperative and this would have one immediate consequence: Casamance); > it was not meant to be a confederation( at worst, it was a federation) > ;was not also meant to be egalitarian(because of circumstances).
> Now coming to the context of Senegal,the late 70s was a period of unrest > particularly with our neighbors up North, Mauritania i mean and a > movement called WALFOUGUI standing for WALO -FOUTA-GUIDIMAKHA, in other > terms the strip of land on the Mauritanian side of the Senegal river and > the idea of pushing to secession was in the air from those populations > and getting something with Senegal was also an idea some caressed for a > long time putting thus an end to years of frustration and exclusion in > what they thought was their country( at the time of independence,most the > intellectuals of this country were black,and yet Moktar Ould Daddah > became their first president).Colonel Kader, armed by Morroco,using > Senegalese territory to march on Nouakchott was arrested and killed.The > movement failed. > Casamance was another place where ethnic dynamics started to > deteriorate because of nearly ten years of droughts and northern > populations had migrate to the South and brought with them very > condescendent attitudes so much so frictions were inevitable.Besides, for > the people in the South ,the North is unproductive and Senegal is fed by condescendent attitudes so much so frictions were inevitable.Besides, for > the people in the South ,the North is unproductive and Senegal is fed by > the South which is not receiving much in return in terms of infrastrure > or investment.The presence of the Gambia seemed to some an obstacle to > Senegalese unity as a nation. > In the early 80s and even before Senegambia was in the minds of > many people and the motivations seemed to be different.Those years > corresponded years of cultural assessment and past reappraisal.Senghor > was about to leave and Abdou was being prepared.There was a strong > movement for the rehabilitation of national heroes for civic purposes and > cultural identity, this went along with the demand that our kids must be > taught in our national languages.Some intellectuals showed that it was > possible to teach science and technology in the languages spoken in the > country.It was very romantic, yet it had its appealing aspect.In fact, > with developing national history, the Senegambia came back as a living > reality and a source of pride as to how ancient empires were contructed > and administered.Soon ,Senegambia became part of the curriculum with > unfortunately a wolof emphasis:KAJOR,BAOL,JOLOF,AND > RIP,NDUKUMAAN.University professors developed it among them Prs MBAYE -- unfortunately a wolof emphasis:KAJOR,BAOL,JOLOF,AND > RIP,NDUKUMAAN.University professors developed it among them Prs MBAYE > GUEYE ,MAMADOU DIOUF,BOUBACAR BARRY. Pr B. BARRY,a Guinean refugee made > an important contribution>his book gave a wider perspective by including > ancient states from WAO to Casamance. > Now the circumstances.The incident happened in 1979 i think and > Senegalese troops intervened unnoticed, any way by many.This was called > Fode Kaba 1.That incident triggered thoughts in Command spheres. > The Gambia has been described by the strategists as a "finger in > Senegal's anus." I don't mean to be vulgar, but the image is not mine.It > is seen as the very example of colonial stupid legacy. > What if a communist regime comes to power? Some one like Thomas Sankara > ,uncontrolable! With Jawara ,there is always a way out.Besides, he is not > the type to look for trouble by allowing rebels to use his country. > Fode Kaba 2 came in 1981, just at the time Abdou Diouf was in command > with a big controversy( giving him power was unconstitutional, many said > that he was too shy to make a good president).The Gambia was a proving > ground for him.Senegal intervened out of fear not knowing who would be in > command.Then,Jawara, whose power has been restored thanks to the
> ground for him.Senegal intervened out of fear not knowing who would be in > command.Then,Jawara, whose power has been restored thanks to the > Senegalese troops could not but be grateful and undemanding.Hence,the > sitution changed and Abdou became his big brother and used the situation > to validate his own position at home.Yet, he was not reassured by the > informality of power exercise in the Gambian and advised Gendarmes to > protect him.It was his biggest mistake but he just copied what exist in > many former colonies with the BIMA battalions stationed in the capital > cities for defense accords but everybody knows what th\ey are used for.In > Cote d'Ivoire ,they took Houphouet back to power. > The Confederation worked comfortably for Jawara who used it to rebuild > his authority and regain confidence from the Gambian opposition.Every day > was a step he made in downsizing the confederal presence until he found > himself vey comfortable with the Gambians and he then pulled back. > I think the Senegalese were not interested in a confederation which > obviously was leading to nowhere.Being one country or with key > institutions in common would be appealing,i think. > >From the Gambian side what i think did not go right, I see two: > -- the unegalitarian perspectives shown through the presence of troops,
> a real anachronism in an independent country, even though one of you is > very nostalgic about the colonial times to show how much he feels sick > about what's going on . > --Gambian social dynamics precisely the AKU component,a well off entity > with a reasonable control of trade and with some key positions in the > administration although a minority.This group has not much enthusiasm in > what was being done and felt somehow not concerned by blood and > historical ties which were profusedly cited to legitimate the move.They > were rather from the South.This confederation would compromise their > businesses.They appeared to me not committed.The vast majority of > Soce,fula,usually,the Gambian peasantry was completely in the "dark"as a > nonentity as political pressure groups even though the president is one > of them. > If there are mistakes which i see in the Gambian approach to problems ,i > will put them in four areas which Gambians neglected in their nation > building process: > -No higher education institutions, a blunder.Development needs people to > building process: > -No higher education institutions, a blunder.Development needs people to > think. > -lack of initiatives in the administration except in tourism and trade > which are sectors which wrecked the country and made it > extraverted.Nationals have no contral over businesses.Even for school, > you go and get a training where ever you want, who cares?Nobody is > looking at how to make all these competences work for the country.Brain > drain is consequently high for lack of perspectives.To tell the truth the > Gambia has no right to be member of CILLSS,everything grows.You just need > to throw the seeds. > -lack of armed forces:they are an important body in an organized > state.One can be anti\ pro military, yet there is a necessity for an army > not for its traditional tasks, but for development ones.ONe of you was > saying there was no need having an army.Having an army to rule over the > country, you don't need that,To face threat from your neighbors?Not very > likely to be useful.However, you still need an army, with assigned > tasks.At least it provides employment and training, besides, it is very > important in civic programs.All these tasks you can have them performed
> tasks.At least it provides employment and training, besides, it is very > important in civic programs.All these tasks you can have them performed > by other bodies but the control and punishment , the army has more > traditions.Look,the problem of discharging AIDS contaminated servimen or > women in the US,the heated debate it has given because it in the army > that you have the most reliable sources to improve on the disease > research.I find though they need to be oriented. > -development of local languages.As working on American culture ,i see > today that West Africa is of no great interest to the Americans, they are > going to East or Southern Africa where languages are developed in > addition to their colonial patrimony.Obviously, if there is no > University, there is nothing of the kinds i talked about. > I have been long and went into more global discussion. I'll be glad to > hear from you.If you find some ideas are stupid ,please tell me,i claim > to be an intellectual therefore not easily shocked by answers. > Thanks > Ci Jaam > Oumar\ senegal
========================================================================
Anthony W Loum tloum@u.washington.edu Supervisor, Business Administration Library 206-543-4360 voice 100 Balmer Hall 206-685-9392 fax University of Washington Box 353200 Seattle, Wa.98195-3200 =========================================================================
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Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 14:46:09 -0500 (EST) From: ABDOU <at137@columbia.edu> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: democratic structures Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.960314141531.20262A-100000@vanakam.cc.columbia.edu>
Hi Fellows, I have been watching with much interest the debates about democracy. I however think that the focus of attention on personalities is misplaced. I say this for the following reasons. Firstly, the is ample evidence that democracy needs a sizeable middle class to survive. The Gambia is far from fulfilling this criterion. Just look around; all democracies are also reasonably wealthy. The only people willing to challenge tyrants tend to be either educated or have a stake in law and order i.e economic stake. I would therefore say that it is not that we cannot rule ourselves as been frequently hinted here, but the right conditions for good governance do not yet exist in the country. We should be looking forward to a long period of instabilty and anarchy. I cannot think of any country that has avoided in its history, the growing pains that The Gambia is now going through. The other reason against this focus on personalities is that without the existence of a structure pressuring a political leader, there would exist a high probality that he/she would turn into a tyrant. Gambians are however forever looking for a messiah to save them. Well, we shall be looking for one for a long time. I am not saying that we take things in stride. But we need to know that what is happening to our country is very familiar. The second issue I will write on concerns subscriptions. To those who criticized my stance I will ask you to investigate the deplorable history that the US army has of sponsoring coups and sending their soldiers to study "natives" . So I remain steadfast in my condemnation of the US army and all that it it stands for. I liked the way Oumar welcome to the list oumar introduced himself. People who would like to join the list should be asked to send us a letter doing the same thing: tell us how the list would benefit from being in the list. I would also tell my critics that just because everyone can participate in a process does not make the process democratic. And also "the more the merrier" does not always hold forth: look at what happened to Africa-L . I also think we need someone to sound out the list (publicy, privately) and to implement consensus/policy. I would suggest someone from the group of new members. This is because our debates do not take a clear direction and we need to know how the membership feels about new subsribers. Since we have so many sleepers in the list, we need to contact them to see what they feel. Katim/Tony, I am not getting the error messages that you are talking about. I have a facilty for check addresses. SO keep 'em rolling my way. ******************************************************************************* A. TOURAY. (718)904-0215. MY URL ON THE WWW= http://www.cc.columbia.edu/~at137
A FINITE IN A LAND OF INFINITY. SEEKING BUT THE REACHABLE. I WANDER AND I WONDER. ALL RESPITE IS FINAL. *******************************************************************************
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Date: Thu, 14 Mar 96 14:14:25 CST From: <JDG.L.LANGE.LWCLK@CO.HENNEPIN.MN.US> To: Gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: PHEW! PHEW! Message-ID: <9603142015.AA21894@mx5.u.washington.edu>
Amadou:
I get ya. Despite my sometimes harsh words, I have yet to punch anyone. Oouf . . . boy I'm I glad these exchanges occured over the internet lest I now be Morro with a more substantial nose . . .
Morro.
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Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 17:00:38 -0800 (PST) From: "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu> To: Gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Gambia court convicts women over skin-bleaching (fwd) Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.91l.960314170015.9660A-100000@saul2.u.washington.edu>
FYI-
Tony
---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 14 Mar 1996 7:40:30 PST From: Reuters <C-reuters@clari.net> Newgroups: clari.world.africa.western Subject: Gambia court convicts women over skin-bleaching
BANJUL, Gambia (Reuter) - A court in the West African state of Gambia convicted and sentenced two women Thursday on charges of possessing skin bleaching products. The court at Birkama, 20 miles from the capital Banjul, sentenced one woman to a fine equivalent to $400 or three years in jail. It ordered the second woman to pay the equivalent of $200 or face two years in jail. The first woman was arrested in possession of 11 tubes of cream at Banjul airport, the second had just one tube. Doctors denounce skin bleaching as a health risk but it is a fad among some African women. Some go so far as to have their skins peeled to just below the melanin level, a procedure known as xessal. Gambia's military government, which seized power in the West African tourist haven in 1994, outlawed the use and possession of skin-bleaching products Jan. 1. -- This is the NEW RELEASE of the ClariNet e.News! If you notice any problems with the new edition, please mail us at editor@clari.net and let us know. Thanks! More information can be found on our web site at http://www.clari.net/ or in clari.net.announce.
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Date: Thu, 14 Mar 96 20:50:23 CST From: Katim S. Touray <touray@hope.soils.wisc.edu> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Hi there! Message-ID: <9603150250.AA04747@hope.soils.wisc.edu>
Hi there,
it's nice to hear all the voice coming forth on all the burning issues we face. i'd like to, before i go on, say a big 'Thank you' to Oumar for his very interesting and refreshing posting on a brief segment of the history of relations between Senegal and The Gambia. he raised some very important issues, notably his opinions on Gambian policy (or lack thereof, of a coherent one) on education. i think though that the issues raised deserve reflection, and for this reason, i've saved the file, and we reply with my 200 CFA worth of ideas in a bit.
the next issues are in regards the constitution and such stuff. like i said yesterday, or the day before, i'll still thinking ...
by the way, i think we need to embark on a campaign to recruit more people to our list. i'm sure there are more of us out there, and i think the only way we can keep the excitement going is to keep adding new subscribers.
the above, by the way, in no way prejudices Abdous' contention that there should be greater emphasis on quality than on quantity. i'm saying lets' have more of quality, in addition to the fact that each number has its' own quality (remember the saying there's strength in numbers?), which increases as the numbers increase. here i go again ...
that's about all for now. have a great weekend everyone.
bye, Katim
ps: Abdou, the reason you'r not getting error messages now is that we removed your address from the 'errors-to' list. if you want to take them on again let me know.
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Date: Fri, 15 Mar 96 11:08:23 GMT From: L Konteh <L.Konteh-95@student.lut.ac.uk> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re:Recruitment Message-ID: <9603151108.AA03107@hpl.lut.ac.uk>
Hi Katim,
In response your request for more members, kindly add the following to the list
1. Ramou Njie [R.Njie@LSHTM.ac.uk]
2. Raduwan Dackour [R.Dackour@LSHTM.ac.uk]
3. Malang Bass [MAB105@ford.Anglia.ac.uk]
4. Sulayman Suso [EEESSULA@livjm.ac.uk]
5. Sankung Sawo [101573.1703@compuserve.com] Thanks Lang
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Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 10:23:28 -0500 (EST) From: Amadou Scattred Janneh <AJANNEH@pstcc.cc.tn.us> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: New Members Message-ID: <01I2D4GLQAKW000QFO@PSTCC6.PSTCC.CC.TN.US>
Just to inform you that I have added the following as requested:
Ramou Njie, Raduwan Dackour, Malang Bass, Sulayman Suso, and Sankung Sawo.
Have a wonderful weekend! Amadou Scattred Janneh.
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Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 08:55:22 -0800 (PST) From: "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Cc: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: Re:Recruitment Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.91l.960315084354.24438A-100000@saul5.u.washington.edu>
" Way to go " Lang. This is great. Thanks for the recruitment drive. I can see that we will be getting our second female member and Sarian will no longer be the " lone ranger " out there. So, Subscription managers can you please add on the new recruits so soon as you have the time. Thanks Tony
Katim, hopefully by next week, I will send an announcement about the existence of Gambia-l to the following: Africa-l, Senega-l, soc.culture.african. Should I just send a short basic announcement with where and how to subscribe or send the draft of one messages that you wrote a few weeks ago pertaining to subscription ?
On Fri, 15 Mar 1996, L Konteh wrote:
> Hi Katim, > > In response your request for more members, kindly add the following to the list > > 1. Ramou Njie [R.Njie@LSHTM.ac.uk] > > 2. Raduwan Dackour [R.Dackour@LSHTM.ac.uk] > > 3. Malang Bass [MAB105@ford.Anglia.ac.uk] > > 4. Sulayman Suso [EEESSULA@livjm.ac.uk] > > 5. Sankung Sawo [101573.1703@compuserve.com] > Thanks > Lang > > >
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Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 12:21:07 -0800 (PST) From: Oumar Ndongo <ondongo@benfranklin.hnet.uci.edu> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: What's the use of a new constitution? Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.960315113625.23166A-100000@benfranklin.hnet.uci.edu>
Hi! Last week, i guess,one of you was wondering whether in the context of our countries writing a new constitution deserved so much attention.I buy his argument for i don't see why so much energy and foresight must be put on things which other sensibilities will violate without further ado , in the name of the same motivations as those which took the "boys" to power. We need more actions,more initiatives to inspire trust in our capabilities and comfort that will to live together toward a common national goal. However,one thing is to disapprove of it, another thing is to refuse to be part of the process once launched.In fact, many examples can be found to support the idea that our leaders are experts in using circumstances to serve their personal ambitions. We are mistaken if we think that the so called "people",so powerful in a real democracy, yet so volatile in our countries, will say no.Therefore ,although the re-writing of the constitution is neither an end in itself nor the issue today in a context of mal governance, I suggest serious study be made of the draft along with the idea that charismatic leaders exist whose ambitions are to meet challenges of economic growth and social prosperity. Have a nice weekend , everybody. Oumar\Senegal
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Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 14:43:59 -0800 (PST) From: "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu> To: Gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Forward of Malanding's response to Prof Ndongo Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.91l.960315143653.12145A-100000@saul1.u.washington.edu>
I think Prof Ndongo made some valid points in his contribution. However, I find it a little bit difficult to understand how the AKU component contributed. Perhaps the non-Wollof component (which include the Mandigoes as well) may have been a stronger force. I believe that many of the non-Banjulians or the non-Wollof depending on how you look at it feel that integrating with Senegal would mean more to the Banjulians who had traditional ties with Dakar than the rest of the Gambia. Although many of these groups did not voice their opposition outright, they did had a lot to do with the pace of the integration process. Also our different "cultural" well the English - French experience did a bad job in exaggerating those differences.
As you rightly said the lack of common purpose (Senegal using it to contain the Casamance problem, Abdou to show the country and his oppponents how big he can get and ofourse Jawara, a way out of his problems) also made it difficult to make it work.
-A question i would like folks to respond to is that do we really need a Confederation or federation to improve relations between the two countries? After all Senegambia was born out of politial idealism rather cultural or geography reality.
Malanding
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Date: Fri, 15 Mar 1996 17:41:52 -0800 (PST) From: "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu> To: Gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Follow up response to Prof Ndongo Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.91l.960315144428.12145B-100000@saul1.u.washington.edu>
I agree that Prof Ndongo's analysis of the defunct Senegambian confederation was very strong and valid. I am generally in agreement with his positions except for the part played by the Akus in leading to the demise. On that I support Malandings thesis. Here are my thoughts: Historically, we all know that the Akus were the first to get exposure to western education not only in The Gambia but also in Sierra Leone where most of them migrated from. As a result they controlled most of the civil service during the colonial days and slightly after independence before the other ethnic groups started receiving higher western education. As Jawara came to power together with the reduction of the educational monopoly and advantaged enjoyed by the Akus, the dynamics started tipping the balance from their side. For example, if this Internet that we are now involved with was in existence about 40 years or longer ago, the composition of the membership of this list would have been predominantly Akus, but it is a different story nowadays. As we progressed deeper into the post independence era, the power and influence of the Akus in the civil service and government started to diminished. Another debatetable point of Prof Ndongo is " the reasonable control of trade " by the Akus. If this is interpreted literally, maybe I might agree to it. But a suggestion about Aku dominance of the commercial sector, if that is the implication ( which I am not suggesting ) is grossly exagerated. As stated, whatever influence the Akus had over public policy was already waning. This was compounded by allegations of high ranking political officials in The Jawara Administration being very tribalistic, evidenced by systematic dismissal of non Mandinka high ranking civil servants namely John Ndow and Jeffrey Renner etc. These were things that I was told, I was not at the Gambia to substantiate any of these allegations. So, my arguement is that the Akus thus lacked any political and economic clout, to have adversely impacted the Senegambian Confederation on the Gambian side. One of the reasons given in the prior discussion, I believed that it was by Amadou, indicated that it was not to the best interest of Mandinka ruling class to which I agree. Wollof is the lingua franca and the dominant language and culture of Senegal and would have eventually absorbed The Gambia and its ruling elite, resulting in loss of power, prestige and perks. Malanding correctly pointed that the traditional ties between the Banjul population ( mainly Wollofs ) with Dakar. Let me elaborate on that. Banjul, then Bathurst was founded in 1816. That was followed by a massive migration to Bathurst from the four colonial communes of Senegal. They were Dakar, Goree, Rufisque and St Louis. Consequently, there are lots of blood ties with these predominantly Wollof peoples. I am a product of those ties. Most of my ancestors came from Joal ( Juwala ) in Senegal belonging to the Serer ethnic group and settled in Bathurst. So, it is correct to assume that Banjul Wollofs would have been more comfortable under such a fully implemented Senegambian Confederation. I am not writing this to defend the Akus but just to give you my perspective on the issue. Although, my maternal grandfather is Aku, I am not an Aku. I consider myself a Serer with Wollof/Catholic upbringing although I cannot speak Serer. Let us not please use this posting as a precursor to an ethnic debate and flaming wars. This was precisely the distasteful thing that went on in Leonenet this past week. There was this verbal warfare between The Mendes versus Temnes versus Limbas versus Krio's etc. Thank you and have a nice weekend. Tony
========================================================================
Anthony W Loum tloum@u.washington.edu Supervisor, Business Administration Library 206-543-4360 voice 100 Balmer Hall 206-685-9392 fax University of Washington Box 353200 Seattle, Wa.98195-3200 =========================================================================
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Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 15:48:19 From: binta@iuj.ac.jp To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Follow up response to Prof Ndongo Message-ID: <199603160644.PAA12438@mlsv.iuj.ac.jp>
Hi
May I add my voice to the discourse relating to the demise of an ill-fated confederation(Senegambia). I have made my own points before and do not wish to repeat them here.
In concurrence with Loum, I do not wish to subscribe to Oumar's view that the Akus were to blame for the fall of the confederation for precisely the same reasons advanced by Loum. The Akus had then lost most of the political clout, and besides, they were very few in the executive branch of government to have stalled Senegambia. The English-French factor was and still is an important factor, at least as far as many Gambians are concerned. However, I think this problem was a handy scape-goat. Most of the real reasons have been discussed in the past. I doubt if Gambians in general, irrespective of tribal origin, would have yielded(neither do I think they will in the future) to a confederated Senegambia. The perceived notion was and still is that the giant Senegal will easily swallow us to the detriment of all Gambians. To be exact, I am not advancing these points to indicate my own stance on the confederation, I am basically stereotyping-which may be inappropriate.
Despite my agreement with Tony on most of what he said, I would want all of us to exercise some tolerance and discuss issues with as much sanity as possible without losing the facts and those little details we have all been providing to the list. Oumar or Malanding's views need not be seen in any tribal light, for once that is done the debate will lose the `Mbaxal' we all crave for from each other, and emotions may cloud our sane line of thought and logic. Let us allow the debate to flow while constraining ourselves to remain within bounds The diversity of this list is worth preserving, and we must be considerate to the aspirations, inspirations, and emotions of others.
Now that quite a number of us have expressed our opinions on the previous confederation both before and after Oumar(S) joined us, may I prompt this question. How many of us want another Senegambia confederation? Will you espouse your reasons for your answer?
Good day to all of you.
Lamin(Japan).
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Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 08:23:43 -0800 (PST) From: "Roddie L. Cole" <rcole@ced.berkeley.edu> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Cc: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Follow up response to Prof Ndongo Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.90.960316073939.9596B-100000@chabot.ced.berkeley.edu>
Aha!! I am considered by many to be an "Aku" and thus strategically positioned to spearhead a virtual ethnic war on the internet (I myself claim fulani and Serrer origins and can provide proof of that to any interested parties). Lucky for you guys that I have zero ego and a zero sense of ethnic affiliation.
Seriously, I'm a little amused as to how every contributor has called for caution in addressing the impact of "the tribal factor" on public policy, in this case, the Senegambia confederation. I guess those Gambians of an intellectual persuasion are more sensitive to this issue than I imagined.
I agree with the emerging consensus that by the eighties the bureaucratic power of Akus had declined significantly. I'm not sure that the Akus ever had strong interests in commerce and trade at the national level. Indeed, business and the wealth derived thereof was looked upon in middle class Aku homes as a less desirable option to the steady income and safe pensions that government offered (the few Aku lawyers in private practice being the exception that proves the rule). In economic terms, Akus had an aversion to risk taking.
Malanding and Tony may be right about the reluctance of the non-Banjul population to stronger ties with Senegal, but did this constituency have the ability to influence public policy? through what channels, the PPP? My own sense is that even the Banjul mafia itself, an influential and wealthy group (e.g. Ousainou Njie of the Commercial Bank, Fisco Conateh of fisheries fame and acclaim, and others), despite ethnic affiliation to Senegal, were less than enthusiastic about the whole issue. They had the Gambian financial and commercial sectors tightly locked up and were unwilling to face competition from Senegal.
Like structuralists (Marxists?), I an sceptical of interests that seem to be grounded in "culture". Ultimately, there are material pay-offs to the actions of participants in both economic and political spheres.
Oumar: It is intriging to read your contributions and to observe how you interweave popular culture with political interests to explain policy outcomes. I note a serious dichotomy between the strong nationalist sentiments in Senegal in the early eighties that you speak of and a willingness to delegate subtantial influence to France especially in the arena of monetary policy.
Roddie Senghor.
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End of GAMBIA-L Digest 7 ************************
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