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Prince
507 Posts |
 Posted - 07 Sep 2010 : 09:05:37
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quote:
I know they are not chinese, but they are asians. Just like Sudanase look like African, but they are not Gambian, but they are african.
If you're taking about Geography, then yes, they all are belong to continental Asia. But using the same logic, makes Iranian and Turkish persons similar to Chinese. Northern Sudan is not Africa, it is Arab. You Turk, cannot change that: if you head out to Sudan today and insist on calling them African, they would laugh at you and probably, some extremist would even consider "stoning" you for "degrading" them by questioning their racial purity.
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Does Bashir look African or Arab, let us assume for a moment you don't know him?
Bashir, with that straight hair, looks ARAB. I have lived in Africa for ages and even our blind will not consider him, "one of us." Africans varies from Bantu, to dinka... and he isn't African.
Just coz Geography accidentally made you guys share a continental plate with the Scandanavians do not make you one of them. You might try dying your hair blonde or buying fake eye lashes (or nipple rings).... we, the people, will still know who you are .
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culturally and linguistically they are assimilated to Arabs,
They are also assimilated genetically. What do you leave a person with when you take their culture and language from them, and then genetically alter them? It is not coincidental that they owe a greater alliance to their fragmented and toothless Arab league than they do to the AU.
The folks who started this thread were talking about the really serious issue of Slavery. I'd rather not be disrespectful to Sister Omega by watering this discussion down to what constitute an Arab. Else, I'd give you the numerous definition and evidence of "who is an Arab." Your gospel, wiki, is a good place to start an "identity of an arab" research. Genetical looks has relatively little to do with what constitute Arab. |
"When injustice becomes law, rebellion becomes duty." |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2010 : 09:24:11
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| Prince, Northern Sudanese are (largely) Arab only by culture. They are genetically and anthropologically blacks, notwithstanding their genetic diversity due to migration and out-breeding... |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2010 : 13:25:20
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Prince
quote:
If you're taking about Geography, then yes, they all are belong to continental Asia. But using the same logic, makes Iranian and Turkish persons similar to Chinese. Northern Sudan is not Africa, it is Arab. You Turk, cannot change that: if you head out to Sudan today and insist on calling them African, they would laugh at you and probably, some extremist would even consider "stoning" you for "degrading" them by questioning their racial purity.
My argument has nothing to do with continent. When I said, Asian, I did not mean the continent. Malaysians, Tibetans, Koreans do look like Chinese, of course they are not Chinese but they have similar racial characteristics of Chinese. I have no clue about your point about Turkish and Iranians!!!! What is your point again?
quote:
if you head out to Sudan today and insist on calling them African, they would laugh at you and probably, some extremist would even consider "stoning" you for "degrading" them by questioning their racial purity. Bashir, with that straight hair, looks ARAB. I have lived in Africa for ages and even our blind will not consider him, "one of us." Africans varies from Bantu, to dinka... and he isn't African.
LOL. Oh you are getting funnier. Straight Hair? Your 'stoning' racial purity does not fly with Islamic, and it is tasteless innuendo. Another Nubian, Sedat. Does he have straight hair? I will post their picture again. Stop smoking your drug and get some glasses and look again. This dude is African. If he is not African what is African?
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Just coz Geography accidentally made you guys share a continental plate with the Scandanavians do not make you one of them. You might try dying your hair blonde or buying fake eye lashes (or nipple rings).... we, the people, will still know who you are .
Oh, now you are out of argument and try to be funny. Dye my hair? Fake eye lashes? Who is ‘you’?
quote:
Else, I'd give you the numerous definition and evidence of "who is an Arab."
Bring the evidence. So far, you have not given any credible evidence other than rubbish and some comedy.
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 07 Sep 2010 14:45:22 |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2010 : 13:44:10
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Ali Osman Taha. The vice president of Sudan. Another Arab!
Sudanase UN Ambassador. Abdelmahmood Abdelhaleem.
quote:
Abdelhaleem began his career in the Sudanese Foreign Ministry in 1975 after receiving his Bachelor of Science degree in Political Science from the University of Khartoum. In 1978, he received a master’s degree in international relations from Ohio University. He has served across Africa and the Greater Middle East for Sudan, including Saudi Arabia (1987-1989), Ethiopia (1990-1995), Somalia (1994) and Afghanistan (2003).
He says:
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In an interview in a report on the conflict in Darfur by PBS's Frontline, he said, "We are a developing country, we have our shortcomings. But we are unfairly treated. The issue of Darfur has been blown out of proportion."
So question to you Prince. Does he look like Arab to you? He has curly hair.
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 07 Sep 2010 13:47:35 |
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Prince
507 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2010 : 23:06:12
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Does he look like Arab to you? He has curly hair.
Turk, you really do enjoy going around in cycles...He is a gray-haired Arab with a salon altered hairstyle.
You have every right to continue to be difficult, but you sure can't convince us that an Agama lizard is a baby croc. |
"When injustice becomes law, rebellion becomes duty." |
Edited by - Prince on 08 Sep 2010 15:42:31 |
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Sister Omega
United Kingdom
2085 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2010 : 23:39:10
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Turk , it seems me that you're not too familiar with Sudan, its share size alone is awesome as it the biggest country in Africa. There is no disputing the fact that 20,000 Africans have been enslaved by Arabs in Sudan. The majority of those arabs descend from the Turks who finally colonialised Sudan in 1820 when Ismail Pasha took control of Bilal es Sudan. As far as your lesson in genetics go it's neither here nor there as there is no justification for enslavement and the premises for it is pathetic to say the least. The more you try and justify the purety of the Arab bloodline the more ludicrous it becomes as Arabs are mixed over a long period of time. The Ottoman Empire stretched throughout the Middle East and Asia to North and East Africa in search of gold.
Tamsier I hear you the point I was trying to get across was that whether one has a slave ancestory or not African enslaved people originated from some where and they lost contact with their families and communities. However their ancestorial homeland is still there. How can one no all of the members of one's family throughout time and space. As for one's Spiritual belief's as far as I am concerned that is between them and their source. peace Bro
Momodou maybe you could e-mail Channel4 and see whether they'd be interested in getting so Danish viewers. You never know they might even consider it.
A lot of the Sudanese are confused about there African identity and what it really means and I suppose that can also be said about a lot of african people around the world. However for centuries Sudan has been occupied by Arab influence and has not been able to evolve its unique identity. Even to the Sudanese population isn't completely free just look what's happening in Darfur.
Kayjatta I wouldn't be too fast to assume that the APRC government is sending Gambians to slavery in Qatar. You know that this is nonsense and stretches to the limits of depravity come on I think our getting far to dizzy with this particular spin  Apparently Qatar is paying some good wages at present and there are opportunities there so I've been told.
Now Turk you have hijacked this topic. If you are so concerned about who is an Arab and who isn't then it would of been far better to create a new thread altogether than go off on a tangent on such an important issue. Obivously you don't feel that contemporary slavery is important from your writing here. Sudan has a majority African population and the North of Sudan is where the majority of the Arabs reside. I am not going to enter into the genetic make of those who consider themselves as being Arab. Although what I will say that there are Arabs descending from the middle east including Turkey. As for the Ottoman Empire even the house of Sud is not Arabia they were placed in Saudia Arab by the British in the 1920's. Comestic slaves being held by real Arabs that they weren't subjected to slavery by them.
Gambian Bev yes Blunkett did say that. However who has the last laugh now? Mende Nazier free and has been working with the UN to raise the issues of Domestic Slavery hence inspiring I am a Slave based on the them of her books. It was many Diplomats and their families bringing over Domestic Slaves. However its not only limited to Sudan missions but other embassies where slavery is tolerated in their society. Slavery amongst different racial backgrounds African Asian and Europeans. It is an issue from the past but has continued to haunt us in the present and it's up to us to stop in the future.
Jambo thanks for the idea of the website Bro.
Peace
Sister Omega
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Peace
Sister Omega |
Edited by - Sister Omega on 07 Sep 2010 23:45:11 |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2010 : 03:12:15
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Sista
I will comeback to this post and chew you alive. I can't stand ignorance. I do not have any concern about Arabs. I can't stand neither their culture, nor their historical relationship with Turks or Africans. But what I am concerned about your your historically inaccurate post. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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toubab1020
12314 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2010 : 12:14:28
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Better start doing research turk if you want to have long discussions with sister O
quote:
Originally posted by turk
Sista
I will comeback to this post and chew you alive. I can't stand ignorance. I do not have any concern about Arabs. I can't stand neither their culture, nor their historical relationship with Turks or Africans. But what I am concerned about your your historically inaccurate post.
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"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2010 : 13:20:47
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Sista
Did I hijack this? How is it hijacked, I responded your inaccurate statement that 'slavery is done by Arabs'. Address some of the questions I raised. First, tell me why an AFRICAN leaders of Sudan, the ones I posted do not do anything about so-called Slavery? Basher is old fashion, dark skinned African man. He is the president.
It is pathetic. Here is my problem. Seem like many Africans, not all, are working like a machine for excuses. If anything wrong goes, they either blame foreigners and leaders. Don't you know that
- Foreigners will not feel sorry for you, you need to take care of yourself. In this situation, follow Malcolm X. Any means necessary. You see, the president of Sudan and most executives are AFRICAN. Yet, if there is still slavery happening in a country, there must be wrong something with yourself. That is true, Africa was exposed by imperialism by Europe and very a few of countries i.e. Sudan were colonized by non-European. And Arabs and Turks did involve slavery. But now Sudan is independent and AFRICANS have the full power.
- These leaders are not coming from Mars. They are within the society. Slavery may have happening by Arabs and African. But who capture slaves? Martians? Who sells slave? Aliens? Who make profit from Slavery? Slavery already exist in Sudanese by local indigenous population. Why does not happen in Gambia? There are wealthy Lebanese (They are Arabs too).
The people have never been to Sudan, based on the propaganda, mostly done by western media to demonize Islam, Middle Eastern and Sudan itself as Sudan is doing business with China. I tell you, in Sudan most Nubians, Africans have the domestic workers. They are not slave, but their working conditions close to slave. And most slavery is happening to Africans by Africans. The slavery in Sudan is not about Arabs or Africans. It is about 'social and economic status'. Arabs are very good economically, and most likely they will have domestic workers and most likely they are coming from rural Africans. Many workers have no money, education and some of them are happy to be in urban area not only for money, but also for other opportunities like education, freedom from local tradition. If an African (Nubian) rich you will see some domestic workers in their house too. Most of these Africans have motivation to pick domestic workers from other tribes, mostly the other tribes of rural area. There are many foreign companies there including Turkish Construction companies. If you need a maid there, you go African he will find a mate, most likely from the rural area, they are so desperate for work, they will work for you like slave. All of these 'agents' who will get you a domestic workers, guess what, they are African. These people are con-artist and they con european who thinks they are saving a slave buy purchasing the slave. They don't realize that they are being part of profitable scam. It is lucrative business. I mean maybe not officially, but they are ok working under terrible work conditions.
It is just old times. If there is a demand, African themselves help you to get a slave, in this case very cheap domestic workers. Who can stop this. Not me, not you. It is Sudanase Government and its people. The president of Sudan is AFRICAN. But the solution is not easy. The realities to difficult to overcome.
Sista omega does not have very sophisticated mind to question this. She stops the questioning at Diplomatic rubish. How do these domestic workers come to these people. Are they volunteerly coming applying for slavery? Or who is the agent? Who gets these workers to this diplomatic mission. They just go to rural area and capture them?
Many of slavery stories like Sister Omega indicates are bogus stories to make a good refugee case. In Australia, there are many Sudanase and most of them make a refugee claim based on the exactly same story. I was a slave. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 08 Sep 2010 13:44:00 |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2010 : 14:48:52
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The barrier in the way is Diplomatic Immunity, and therefore it is the remit of the UN to decide how to stop diplomatic missions from exporting slaves in their missions by making it illegal and those who continue with this practice should be sent to the Hague.
Tell us how? Which court? Do you have any clue about the jurisdiction of Hague?
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2010 : 15:06:57
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Prince
More ugly 'Arab men' from ministers, presidents, high ranking officials from Sudanese Government. These people hold the power in the government. These people are wanted by the international criminal court. Look again, do they really look arab to you?
Sista
The following pictures are high ranking officials of Sudanase Government. These are the people who have power. These are the people would deal with the so-called slavery of Africans by Arabs. These people, are AFRICANs. These people are being persecuted by the International Criminal Court for Darfur. So my question is to you? Why do these people do nothing for so-called slavery of Africans by Arabs? Looking forward to hearing your response.
Ahmad Muhammad Harun ("Ahmad Harun")
Former Minister of State for the Interior of the Government of Sudan;
Minister of State for Humanitarian Affairs of Sudan.
Prosecution application for a warrant of arrest
27 February 2007
Ali Muhammad Ali Abd-Al-Rahman ("Ali Kushayb")
Alleged leader of the Militia/Janjaweed.
Prosecution application for a warrant of arrest
27 February 2007
Warrant of arrest issued by Pre-Trial Chamber I
2 May 2007
Born on 1 January 1944 in Hoshe Bannaga, Shendi Governorate in the Sudan.
National of Sudan.
President of the Republic of Sudan since 16 October 1993.
Prosecution application for a warrant of arrest
14 July 2008
First warrant of arrest issued by Pre-Trial Chamber I
Second warrant of arrest issued by Pre-Trial
Chamber I 4 March 2009
12 July 2010
Bahar Idriss Abu Garda
Born in Nana, North Darfur. Believed to be in his early forties.
Tribe Zaghawa.
Chairman and General Coordinator of Military Operations of the United Resist
Abdallah Banda Abakaer Nourain
Commander-in-Chief of Justice and Equality Mouvement Collective-Leadership, one of the components of the United Resistance Front
Summonses to app
Saleh Mohammed Jerbo Jamus
former Chief of Staff of SLA-Unity and currently integrated into Justice and Equality Mouvement
Summonses to appear:
Issued under seal on 27 August, 2009
Unsealed on 15 June, 2010
First appearence: 17 June 20
Source |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 08 Sep 2010 15:14:57 |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2010 : 16:06:01
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Sudan prior to British rule was ruled by the Turks for 350 years administered by the Egyptian subjagating the African Sudanese in the South.
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Turks who finally colonialised Sudan in 1820
And British take over in 1882. So my math tells me that 1882 - 1820 = 62 years. How did you end up 350 years? Besides, Ottoman Empire conquer Egypt in 1517 and did never rule Sudan for long period of time. So do not post inaccurate statement. When I correct it, that is not hijacking. It is bursting your bubble. That is all.
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Obivously you don't feel that contemporary slavery is important from your writing here.
Not at all. I am against any kind of slavery. My motivation is to debate on issues extensively and based on facts. You had many incorrect statements. You can't find solution to the problem if you do not describe the problem correctly. Your theory is that slavery is due to Arabs. That is wrong. Your solution to go Hague. That does not make sense. The court does not have any jurisdiction about the crime. The accusation of Sudanese Government are Arab, that is the reason nothing is done against so-called slavery is wrong. Sudanese officials are also Africans, not only Arab. The tragedy also common within African tribes in Sudan, involving other tribes. Slavery was not brought to Africa by foreigns and religion. It did exist before anyone came to Sudan.
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 08 Sep 2010 17:31:36 |
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Sister Omega
United Kingdom
2085 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2010 : 20:34:31
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Hey Turk what were you saying about eating me alive? Because you didn't like my take on the Ottoman Empire. I just thought I'd share this time-line with you because its seems as you missed out on some critical history lessons in school . By the way you were correct I did miscalculate their occupation instead of 350 years it went on for 361 years instead. So my Sudanese source was only 11 years out where as you Turk show you don't know your nation's imperialist history. It just goes to show that learning is a life-long process and it's only fools who think they know it all.
Peace
Sister Omega
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ottoman_Empire_territories#Africa
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Peace
Sister Omega |
Edited by - Sister Omega on 08 Sep 2010 20:48:48 |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2010 : 20:48:46
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Sista
The problem is that you are not detailed oriented. Let me see your link.
Sudan (1553-1914);
Sudan (Nubia) (1553-1885);
Sudan (Darfur) (1874–1883);
Sudan (Equatoria) (1871–1889);
Sudan (Kordofan) (1821–1883);
Only nubia region was under ottoman empire as my map already indicates. And that is very small portion of Sudan.
Nubia is very small region. So you said Sudan was colony of Ottoman Empire which was not accurate :) Only Nubia, small region, was colonized early. Most of the Sudan was not since 1553.
Check the map, Ottoman had very small part of Sudan (Nubia).
quote:
Originally posted by Sister Omega
Hey Turk what were you saying about eating me alive? Because you didn't like my take on the Ottoman Empire. I just thought I'd share this time-line with you because its seems as you missed out on some critical history lessons in school. By the way you were correct I did miscalculate their occupation instead of 350 years it went on for 361 years instead. So my Sudanese source was only 11 years out where as you Turk show you don't know your nation's imperialist history. It just goes to show that learning is a life-long process and it's only fools who think they know it all.
Peace
Sister Omega
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ottoman_Empire_territories#Africa
You see you are incorrect. Only Nubia, a small part of Ottoman empire was colonized since 1553. But most of the other regions were colonized in 1800. So, your statement of 350 years is miscalculated, exaggerated figure. So your bubble is burst. Sorry.
It is inaccurate to say I don't know my nations imperial history. Look at the years. Your post is inaccurate. It says Sudan 1553 - 1914. Which is inccorrect because only Nubia is 1553. Most other part is late 1800. Do you need a glasses or do you have problem interpreting the numbers?
Sudan (1553-1914);
Sudan (Nubia) (1553-1885);
Sudan (Darfur) (1874–1883);
Sudan (Equatoria) (1871–1889);
Sudan (Kordofan) (1821–1883);
Look at the first map I provided. It says 1566 - 1683. Only the small portion of Sudan along with Red Sea. Most part of Sudan was not even colonized. I did not deny Turk's colonization of North Africa. We are talking about Sudan where African slavery. So, I recommend you to come again.
And ottoman presence in Sudan did not have any impact on Slavery in Sudan. In Turkey, you don't see African slaves brought. Turks were involving getting 'free domestic workers in in other part of the world. Blonde Russians and Europeans as wives'. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 08 Sep 2010 21:05:07 |
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Sister Omega
United Kingdom
2085 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2010 : 21:07:20
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Turk I am quite sure that ou don't know more about Sudanese history than the Sudanese source I have who was born raised and educated there. Her account of Sudanese history which I myself was quite suprised about was able to be validate and for the record my friend is Nubian. Sudan is the biggest country in Africa and the Turkish were unable to completely govern Sudan until 1881-1883. The same pattern ocurred on the shores of West Africa it took the Europeans roughly 400 years to Colonialise it and in the end they only manage to stay for approximately 70 years . Bearing in mind Turk the scramble of Africa at theBerlin Conference (1884–1885), when today's boundaries of Africa were enforced. The power in today's Sudan is amalgomation of the states above who were dominated by Turkish rule,and that has been the centre of power has been concerntrated in the North of the country. The Black African population has been constantly unthreat first in the South were the Black Christian African population is and to the west where Darfur where ethnic cleansing has been prevalent.
The influence of the indoctrination of racial prejudice has been entrenched over centuries between Arabs and Africans on racial lines, and it was the Arabs who captured African slaves by justifying the practices because African hair doesn't grow over there ears and this was from the 10th Century.
Peace
Sister Omega |
Peace
Sister Omega |
Edited by - Sister Omega on 08 Sep 2010 21:22:52 |
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