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njucks
Gambia
1131 Posts |
 Posted - 05 Aug 2010 : 11:51:09
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quote:
Originally posted by turk
............ Obviously, Sarkozy is known for how he sees immigrants, Africans, and Muslims.
well said Turk. i have always said it, even on record in the Bantaba ( can't find the link) that Sarkozy is a Racist. some years back he visitied Africa just before his election and gave a major speech at the University in Dakar where he more or less said the African man was stagnant in time. When two youths died after being chased by Police he called them ''scum'' sparking a week long burning of cars in Paris in 2007.
this type of leadership is what gives the police the courage to commit such brutality by dragging a woman on top of baby or man-handling a pregnant woman.
France is the net looser here.
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toubab1020
12314 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2010 : 12:28:58
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I take your point,but you must admit that both practices are WRONG,do you accept that or not,? the "left" is not always good by the same token neither is the "right" (I am talking about political thought here and not hands).I did start a new topic on Breast ironing,who bothered to post NOBODY
http://www.gambia.dk/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9526,
by implication all those who read bantaba dont want to discuss what you call (I hope )"rotten traditions".As I observed before in this topic:
"MOST Africans have a very hard time accepting responsibility for their own actions,how much better to blame someone else for the problem,then its NOT YOUR problem anymore, and it does't have to be resolved by you."
quote:
Originally posted by Janko
toubab 1020
"bagatellizing serious issues of hegemonic implications? "
- To make serious “Power Relations” issues insignificant (diminutive).
The French State has the power and authority. The French police are licensed users of violence and in this case against powerless women and children, who happen to be from “Africa”
This topic is; “French Police vs African Women”, in France. Not about a Cameroonian Cultural practice, in Cameroon. Therefore comparing the two at this material time equals to not heeding to the predicament of the women.
If throwing the rotten traditions from the bag of traditions instead of throwing the whole bag is being a traditionalist, then you are one as well. It surprises me that you do not see what is wrong with comparing the two at this juncture; it would have been totally different if you had started a new topic.
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"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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Edited by - toubab1020 on 05 Aug 2010 12:35:35 |
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toubab1020
12314 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2010 : 12:41:55
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As usual this has moved to Racism and those bad french people,about African women being roughley treated by the police ?(sorry, facist police of course) anymore,it dosn't look like it.
Well here is bantaba where anyone can post about anything . |
"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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kiwi
Sweden
662 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2010 : 13:49:32
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Come on, Toubab! This issue has not changed to racism, it was about racism from the beginning. If the attac shown above is not a racist attack, then what is? Or do you really believe this could have happened to anybody, - a "genuine" Frenchwoman?  |
kiwi |
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toubab1020
12314 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2010 : 13:55:19
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I did not take the initial topic to be about racism, I took it to be about bad behaviour by the police,if the intention of the original poster was to make this topic as racism that was not clear to me,the french seem to like conflict in their demonstrations,left wing students demonstratiing about something in public places would have been dealt with just the same way by the french police.
quote:
Originally posted by kiwi
Come on, Toubab! This issue has not changed to racism, it was about racism from the beginning. If the attac shown above is not a racist attack, then what is? Or do you really believe this could have happened to anybody, - a "genuine" Frenchwoman?
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"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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Edited by - toubab1020 on 05 Aug 2010 13:56:20 |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2010 : 14:51:07
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Well, I don't have authority, even i am the initial poster, to decide whether this topic is about racism or not. It is left to contributors to judge. Social science is not like math 2+2=4, everyone has different values, judgement criteria. But if you ask my personal opinion. This talks like a racist, walk like a racist, smell like a racist and probably it is racist act. Here is why it is racism: The police must demonstrate the sensitivity for these women with children and they are not showing any aggression. They need to have difference tolerance level on different individual. The women with children and they are not aggressive. They did not show the different tolerance level because most likely they do not have the same respect to these women and they have shown French women with children. We are not talking about for example, African men, protesting and showing aggression and if the police use physical enforcement, no want would compliant about racism.
And toubab, you are very critical on Africans and their failure (see below quote, while you are very sensitive when African raise their voices against the colonization and western flaws.
quote:
"MOST Africans have a very hard time accepting responsibility for their own actions,how much better to blame someone else for the problem,then its NOT YOUR problem anymore, and it does't have to be resolved by you."
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 05 Aug 2010 14:56:44 |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2010 : 15:04:21
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| P.S. Every human being whether African, European, Marsian have the equal potential to be a racist. Racism is learnt behavior, and usually hidden racism come out when there is a conflict. One thing is very significant about racism, if one has authority and power over others, then racism has bigger impact. In this case, if the racism by ordinary French the impact much smaller, but the police who have authority/power over you, that is huge difference. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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toubab1020
12314 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2010 : 15:45:09
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Turk, you write:
"And toubab, you are very critical on Africans and their failure (see below quote, while you are very sensitive when African raise their voices against the colonization and western flaws."
Not at all I ADMIT that there are "western flaws.",
Do you admit that Africans have made mistakes in their conduct and have taken resposibility for those mistakes ? 
I was going to mention Mali as an Empire,but there again I know very little so cannot comment so I thought, no I won't,but if you want to provide a starting point there may be a discussion there,I would have a go but I really do not think that other bantaba readers would join in as its not one of their "favorite topics"  .
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"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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Edited by - toubab1020 on 05 Aug 2010 15:46:06 |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2010 : 16:06:30
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Toubab
Of course African have their mistakes and taken responsibility for their mistakes, most bantaba members acknowledge that here to their credit. Mali as an Empire! Let us talk about Mali Empire colonies in Eastern Europe, Fiji and south america. Not to mentioned their crime commited against Aboriginals in Australia. If you are going to imply Mali Empire as other western empire, that would be ridiculous. Mali Empire was local and it has never expanded beyond to its region. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 05 Aug 2010 17:11:43 |
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toubab1020
12314 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2010 : 18:44:27
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"it has never expanded beyond to its region."
Is not a "region" larger than a "country" ?
Turk I read your words,please can you give an example of "Of course African have their mistakes and taken responsibility for their mistakes, most bantaba members acknowledge that here to their credit."
I must have been away for that topic. |
"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2010 : 19:49:06
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touby
Do not even attempt to compare Mali Empire vs British Empire. You would use all your credibility here. Let me point the difference between.
British Empire colonization is much more complex. First of all it has religious side of it. Christian nations is invading animist, or Muslim land. British empire had a special mission to Christianize the colonies. They were partially successful in many parts in Africa, Australia and North America. Mali empire on the other hand dealt with the people who are diverse as their own religion or very similar. Only conflict happened between Islam and animists. When I say Islam, it was Muslims who were previously convert from animists.
British Empire colonization has racist agenda. First of all 'white' men were colonizing 'not so white'. This is a huge difference as Mali Empire did not have that. Mali empire relations with other was more like local tribal conflicts. But not racial. And when British empire went to Africa, North America and Australia, they had the agenda of 'superiority and civilizing the local'. That is huge differences. Mali empire did not have such agenda.
British Empire had last much longer and it had much deeper impact. They were capitalist so they scked all the natural resources, and still doing it. on the other hand Mali empire was not capitalist, industrial, they did not have negative economic impact on their region. So now, let me hear you about Mali Empire.
For Gambians here being critical about themselves, there are many posts here as an example, I left Gambians to speak out for this. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 05 Aug 2010 20:30:41 |
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toubab1020
12314 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2010 : 20:32:48
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Turk you last posting is going off at a tangent,Religion,white men,not so white men,capitalism,racism,and all the rest of the political argumentitive left wing arguements,in other words if its not socialist its bad,my question to you was about the Mali Empire,you responded :"Mali Empire was local and it has never expanded beyond to its region." This statement is in contradiction with established thinking: "The fourteenth-century traveler Ibn Battuta visited ancient Mali a few decades after Musa's death and was much impressed by the peace and lawfulness he found strictly enforced there. The Mali empire extended over an area larger than western Europe and consisted of numerous vassal kingdoms and provinces. Following Mansa Musa's death, Mali went into a long decline, shrinking to the size of its original territory by 1645.
Source: http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/mali/hd_mali.htm
This Ruler mined all this gold in his back garden did he ?
"After Sundiata, the most famous ruler of the Mali empire is Mansa Kankan Musa I, who came to power several decades after the death of his legendary predecessor. Musa was not the first emperor of Mali to embrace Islam; unlike the Soninke and the Soso, Mande royalty adopted the religion relatively early. However, Musa's hajj (pilgrimage to Mecca) of 1324–25 drew the attention of both the Islamic world and Europeans, who were unprepared for the lavish wealth and generosity that the Malian king displayed during his stopover in Egypt. Accompanied by an enormous entourage, Musa apparently dispensed so much gold in Cairo that the precious metal's value plummeted and did not recover for several years thereafter. The Mali empire, previously little known beyond the western Sudan, now became legendary in the Islamic world and Europe. The image of Mansa Musa bearing nuggets of gold was subsequently commemorated in maps of the African continent. "
Source: The Empires of the Western Sudan: Mali Empire
"For Gambians here being critical about themselves, there are many posts here as an example, I left Gambians to speak out for this."
I await their responses.
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"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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Edited by - toubab1020 on 05 Aug 2010 20:34:51 |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2010 : 20:49:33
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| Touby, not only you don't like politics, you don't know politics. My argument has nothing to do with socialism. My argument is telling you that how western imperialism particularly British Empire differ from other empires. Why did you bring Mali empire? You wanted to tell us 'just like British Empire, there was a Mali Empire as well'. And I tried to demonstrate that your imply is invalid. Sorry but youour piece of information is not useful at all for our discussion. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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toubab1020
12314 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2010 : 21:10:13
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| Turk,The Mali Empire was the only African Empire that I could think of (there probably are others)My "piece of information" contained the fact that Mali Empire "extended over an area larger than western Europe ",OK western Europe is "local" (?) the word was "colonisation" no mention of " western imperialism " or The British Empire. and your assertion that "Mali Empire was not capitalist, industrial, they did not have negative economic impact on their region." hence my observation about the Garden. |
"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2010 : 21:46:53
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| I did not understand your last post. They extended larger than Western Europe but they stayed within west africa/sahara. But only European/Western world had empires that goes beyond their regions. Except Ottoman Turks that colonized part of Europe and Arabs. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 05 Aug 2010 21:47:36 |
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