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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
 Posted - 07 May 2009 : 03:41:41
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8032970.stm
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 07 May 2009 03:48:12 |
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toubab1020
12314 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2009 : 11:53:43
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Turk,very sad and moving,my heart goes out to those affected. |
"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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serenata
Germany
1400 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2009 : 17:02:36
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This massacre was shocking; I pray for the poor victims, may they be dead or alive.
Turk, do you have any idea if it was really a blood feud, or if it was an act of terror against alleged PKK-members? |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2009 : 11:46:06
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quote:
Originally posted by serenata
Turk, do you have any idea if it was really a blood feud, or if it was an act of terror against alleged PKK-members?
It is a blood feud, and it was actually act against pro-Government Kurds.
Let me give you some background.
- Kurdistan has had feudal social/economic/political structure until recently.
- Basically a landlord(s) own village(s) and villagers work for them. Landlords would decide everything from marriage, to who will work for the land, who will get a house, who will get education.
- Normally, one expects government to act and change this by having some kind of land reform. But that did not happen because of following reasons.
o These landlords have economic power. They have lobby in Ankara against such land reform. They are very powerful.
o People didn¡¦t demand anything against that due to their loyalty to tradition and the landlord. And they are also not educated, illiterate people.
o Government like the ¡¥status quo¡¦ as long as they don¡¦t do anything against these landlords, they will support the political parties so everyone is happy.
- Things started changing. Those Kurds who migrate to western cities like Ankara, Istanbul and Germany in 1960s became urbanized and modern. They taste the modern socio-economic life style.
- Kurds had been living with Turks for a long time. They have their autonomy in terms of language and tradition. That is why after 1000 years under Ottoman Empire they still kept their language. But this was different century. Micro nationalism broke this loyalty.
- Also, when communists in Turkey in 1980, in the world in 1990s finished, ex Kurdish communists members turned to PKK. They got funded by Armenian Diaspora, Syria, Iran, Greece and France. All of these countries had different reasons.
- Turkish Government armed Kurdish population in order to defend civilians against PKK. Kurdish Militia fought against PKK with Turkish Army.
Turkish Government provided them salary and some economic privileges. This made the situation in Kurdistan even more complex.
Those who were killed were part of Kurdish Militia fighting with Turkish Government. They got a fish farming facility, salary for each man over 18+, better schools, teachers. Those who don¡¦t have these fuel the blood feud between families.
The attackers claimed that victim family members raped one of their daughters, so victim family owes them a girl. One of their daughters should be given to attacker¡¦s family as a bride. The victim family rejected that, instead, they arranged a marriage with another family who is the enemy of the attacker¡¦s family. This was the silliest reason for the attacker¡¦s family to massacre 45 people. The attacker wanted to kill them all because, if any left alive, in the future, there will be revenge attacks by the victim family.
The root cause of this event and terrorism in the region has several reasons.
- Structural:
o Feudal socio-economic realities
o Kurds being very traditional
o Illiteracy and lack of educated population
o Poverty
- Government Policies
o Long time Government did not act the change the situation in Kurdistan. What ever the cost, they must do Land Reform to distribute the land to masses.
o Government must recognize Cultural and limited autonomy for Kurds.
„X Language Rights
„X Autonomy in local governments
„X Kurdish Language Education
Today, Turkey has more than 25 percent Kurdish population, but only 4 percent is supporting Kurdish Nationalist Party. That means more than 80 percent Kurdish population does not want separation. Most Turks and Kurds are married we have mixed families. So there is not reason to fear.
It is unrealistic to expect Kurds to give up their traditional life style so quickly. It will take time, but the Turkish Government must act to improve socio-economics of Kurdistan to prevent another massacre.
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2009 : 13:16:37
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| These people are so connected to each other. Appearently one of the victim's mother breastfed one of the attackers years ago. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2009 : 14:29:10
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turk!
Where is Kurdistan?
These barbaric acts are still taking place in Turkey!!?
My GOD and turk is .....
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Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2009 : 15:11:16
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Kurdistan is south-eastern Turkey bordering iraq and iran.
Janko
What are you saying? |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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serenata
Germany
1400 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2009 : 21:37:33
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Thank you very much, turk, this was really enlightening.
Every human society has the right to live after its own rules and customs, but it seems that these people really are a bit backwards. The custom that you have to 'give' a girl if a member of your family raped a girl of the other family is - no, it isn't archaic, because this would mean that all ancient societies were patriarchal, which is not true. It is simply misogynist.
To me it looks as if girls or women are regarded as something like cattle in this society: The loss of a girl's 'precious' virginity makes the girl as 'useless' as a donkey with a broken leg - so the men of this family have the right to demand a 'new' one. I doubt that anyone cares about the feelings of the raped girl or her substitute; it looks to me as if the 'honor' of the family (the men) is what counts. Maybe this opinion is full of prejudice, but what else could it mean if girls are traded like animals?
I heard that Kurds always marry within the extended family - a cousin or so. I don't think that this custom is very healthy.
Anyway, on the other hand the Kurds suffered a lot and were not even allowed to use their own language - like the Indians in the USA some decades ago. And 'Kurdistan' is said to be full of mineral deposits an other resources... |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2009 : 01:52:16
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Things are changing in Turkish-Kurdistan. In the country side, they still have these kind of traditions but as Turkey is getting richer, more urban, closer to EU, this has impact on Kurdistan too. Kurdistan is changing too, but at snail-pace. I reviewed the statistics of Turkish Planning Institute, if you remove the Kurdistan from Turkey, Turkey would be equal to Portugal in terms of GDP per capita. Only Agean and European district, Turkey would be as rich as Italy. This is Economic qualification for EU. And most EU fear is about migration from poorer areas like Kurdistan or central anatolia. It was more difficult, in Germany, to integrate Kurds than other immigrants coming from Turkey.
Yes, they do get marry within extended family. It is very common to get marry with uncle's son/daughter.
And you are right. They suffered a lot. Certainly, they should be blamed for their suffering but the government has its fair share as well. They were too late to allow their cultural rights. They started but they should continue. I support their fully cultural/municipal authonomy for Kurdistan.
I have to make corrections about the resources. Kurdistan, other than Iraqi Kurdistan, Kirkuk having oil, does not have rich mineral deposits and resources. That was one of the most important reasons for their suffering.
South/Eastern Turkey like dessert like, mountainous area. They have 6 months of winter. Some villages has no access to outside world for 3 to 6 months. Business do not go there because, it is more expensive to do any business. Not much agriculture, no sea. It is bad.
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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