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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
 Posted - 19 Apr 2009 : 22:55:01
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090419/ap_on_re_eu/un_un_racism_conference
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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Momodou
Denmark
11744 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2009 : 18:53:22
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Danish ‘Yes’ to racism conference
Although several larger countries have declined to take part in the controversial UN racism conference, Denmark is prepared to take part.
Denmark is prepared to take part in the controversial Durban II conference on racism that begins in Geneva today.
It has been unclear until the last moment whether Denmark will follow suit with the United States, Israel, Canada, Australia, Italy, the Netherlands and Germany who are to have observer status. But the Danish Foreign Ministry has announced that Denmark has decided to follow the majority of EU nations and take part in the conference at ambassadorial level.
Provocations
Several countries have declined to take part in the conference for a variety of reasons.
Israel and the United States have declined as a result of the final document, which bears reference to the first conference in 2001, in which the two countries walked out as a result of heavy attacks on Israel from several Muslim countries.
Australia and Canada have declined, fearing provocation from the Iranian President Mahmoud Ahadinejad who is expected to rail against Israel and deny the Holocaust.
Germany has declined as a result of the Holocaust issue – but it is unclear why Italy has declined.
Holocaust
Denmark says that the Russian chief negotiator has changed the final document to condemn those who deny the Holocaust, and Denmark’s Foreign Minister Per Stig Møller has been able to gain support from several African countries for statements regarding the freedom of speech.
Coupled with the decision by the majority of EU countries to take part in the conference, Denmark has therefore decided to participate.
Source: http://politiken.dk/newsinenglish/article693466.ece
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A clear conscience fears no accusation - proverb from Sierra Leone |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2009 : 21:18:44
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First of all. I ain't deny no holocoust. In my opinion, it did happen. Ahmadinejat does not have to believe in. However, I am against any legislation that makes denying holocoust is a crime. Jews have right to advocate for Holocoust as much as people who have right to deny this historical fact. It is like, you are forcing an individual to believe in something. We can't deal with the past now, let us prevent holocoust happening now, in Palestine.
While Jews were suffered by Hitler at times, but it looks like this guy inspries them to deal with palestinians. I do support Durban conferance and any declaration that Israel is a racist country and semitism is racist belief. The foreign minister of Israel mentioned once that they will remove the citizenship right from Israeli Arabs. Build the walls between Jews and Palestinans.
I do support Ahmedinejat's points that creation of Israel by europeans in Palestine land is unfair to Muslims. This is the mess British Empire created. And I do support him that Israel should have been created in Europe as the Jews were suffered by the Europeans so the Israeli state should have been established in somewhere in UK, Germany, Austraia and Italy.
Denmark position which is consistent choosing freedom of speech over denying holocoust and punishing who are responsible for cartoon crisis is commendable. Denmark was right not to take legal action against the author of the cartoon that insult our prophet. What was unfair was that Denmark Primeminister did not act to disassociate himself and condemn the act. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2009 : 09:11:13
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Responsible leaders exercise restraint when they make speeches. While Ahmadinijat may reserve the individual right to believe or not believe in the Holocaust, it is important that he exercise restraint and sobriety when he addresses an international audience of the type under discussion because as a leader and representative of his country he no longer speaks on his own behalf. He speaks for his country and therefore may appear to project his country's attitude and foreign policy. The duty of responsibility expected of world leaders is far greater than that expected of individual citizens. Ahmadinijat needs to understand that sensational and inciteful speech on world stage does not help reduce racism, it may rather increase and perpetuate racism.
I do not think it is productive to keep emphasising the past: The argument is not whether Israel should or should not have been created in Europe or anywhere else. History is history. perhaps Britain should not have colonized the Gambia either, and so on and so on. What the argument needs to focus on is how to move forward; how to resolve the Israel/Palestinian conflict so that both peoples can live together (in a two-state solution or as some would prefer in a one-state solution). Neither of these solutions will be achieved by advocating for the complete destruction of Israel (wiping Israel off the map) or by simply denying the existence of it |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2009 : 11:11:29
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How about the palestine which was wiped off the map already? Or denial of existing of Palestine state? No one is advocating this as it is case for Israel. It is already happening or has happened. It is seems like you complaing about even advocating the wiping of Israel from map, or denying the right to exist, at the same time, no comments of non-existing Palestine on the map or non-existing right to exist. Please explain why you have double standard.
So what did Ahmedinejat say?
quote:
most cruel and repressive racist regime
If this statement is not true, give me another nation which is cruel and represive racist regime. I mean if you disagree, you must come up with another nation who is qualified as cruel and repressive racist regime, right?
I mean you do not make sense. Iran threatens Israel wiping of the map. Israel made several threates that if iran develops a nuklear energy they will attack on Iran soil. Is that a responsible speech? Where are the UN security council. A nation threatens to use force against Iran but nothing happens.
Israel went to twice to Internation Court for war crimes during first Lebanase war and Gazza attack, both were vetoed by USA. You are complaining about 'responsible comments' by a politician, but Israel is free to do anything they want. Your understanding of Justice is based on power.
Ahmedinejat telling what muslims think. He is not telling anything different what many muslims are thinking. I have no idea how you come up this conclusing that he is not reflecting what the people of Iran is thinking!!!!
quote:
perhaps Britain should not have colonized the Gambia either, and so on and so on.
See there is a fundamental difference of the understanding of justice and fighting power. Some nations accept the others' will on them, some are fighthers. They accept it because they do not have the 'will' and they just don't get the justice because they already accept the justice given by the power over them. Some have a fighter spirit. They seek justice because they believe they have the rightnessnous. Our great masters Malcolm X house slave and farm slave is great example for this. I have to give Jews credit that they are the fighters. Palestine same. Mandela even Mugabe. I am not sure about some Gambians who have your perspective about being British colony.
Anyway, durban conferance already declared Israel as a racist state last time. With the consensus of several nations. It was the decision of majority.
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 21 Apr 2009 23:50:14 |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
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njucks
Gambia
1131 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2009 : 14:41:03
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quote:
Originally posted by turk
........... Please explain why you have double standard.
lol. Turk  from Western countries willnot end. it is interesting that the UK/US govt are actually boycotting a Racism conference.
During the Apartheid years, when a racist government actually existed officially, theses same governments advocated for ''CONSTRUCTIVE ENGAGEMENT'' of the racist regimes in SOUTHERN AFRICA.
imagine boycotting all that Gold, Platinium etc. i'm happy that today they have found a new moral stand. or is it just a show
wonder who are the fools now?
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2009 : 20:33:11
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njucks
Hypocracy. What is the platform? U-N-I-T-E-D N-A-T-I-O-N-S. It is not something like Islamic Conferance, arab league, African Union or Britney Spears fan club meeting. It is a platform all the nations are represented and top international body. So, if this is not a platform to discuss 'racism', where do we debate?
Hypocracy. It is a 'debate'. Last time I checked you go to debate to hear what you may not like. If these countries do not like to listen Iran, perhaps they should expell Iran from UN. So, where is the freedom of speech. We do not even have 'one', I repeate 'one' resolution against Israel in UN. All the nations can not even condemn Israel for his action. UN pass sanctions on Iran, n.korea etc. but they can't even condemn Israel. UN provides resolution to invade Iraq, but we can't even condemn Israel on the paper. They have asked Bashir to go trial for IJC but we can't even have a freaking 'condemnation' of Israel on a UN document. It is impossible to punish Israel for its crime.
Hypocracy. Democracy. I thought western governments do believe in democracy, freedom of speech. UN is a platform based on democracy. Each nation has right to be heard. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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black orchid
United Kingdom
74 Posts |
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black orchid
United Kingdom
74 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2009 : 21:47:31
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The Guardian's Jonathan Steele cites four different translations, from professors to the BBC to the New York Times and even pro-Israel news outlets, in none of those translations is the word "map" used. The closest translation to what the Iranian President actually said is, "The regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time," or a narrow relative thereof. In no version is the word "map" used or a context of mass genocide or hostile military action even hinted at.
The acceptance of the word "map" seemingly originated with the New York Times, who later had to back away from this false translation. The BBC also wrongly used the word and, in comments to Steele, later accepted their mistake but refused to issue a retraction.
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2009 : 06:35:32
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Do you have the translations Black Orchid? Could you provide them here?
Okay I guess this is what you are referring to:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad_and_Israel
Now tell me: what is the difference between "wiping off the map" and "vanishing from the pages of time" ? |
Edited by - kayjatta on 23 Apr 2009 07:47:08 |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2009 : 07:55:17
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black orchid: The article says:
quote:
The second translation issue concerns the word "map." Khomeini's words were abstract: "Sahneh roozgar." Sahneh means scene or stage, and roozgar means time. The phrase was widely interpreted as "map," and for years, no one objected. In October, when Mr. Ahmadinejad quoted Khomeini, he actually misquoted him, saying not "Sahneh roozgar" but "Safheh roozgar," meaning pages of time or history. No one noticed the change, and news agencies used the word "map" again.
Persian is very advance language compare to poor Turkish. Anyway.
My persian tells me: Sahneh roozgar: The stage of wind (it is not actually exactly history, more like wind of change. Wind is used to describe like 'time flies and the stages on time are destined to change'. It is more like saying 'the place when time flies'.
Sahheh roozgar: The page of wind. When there is a wind, the pages of book flies. Like wind of change. Same as, a new era starts as a new page is turned. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2009 : 07:58:36
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| http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article12790.htm |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2009 : 08:23:35
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad_and_Israel
A lot difference Kayjatta
US, Roman Empire. Soviet Empire, Ottoman Empire, just like any other organizm regimes are not eternal. They will vanish from the history. And stating that is not offensive to me.
Just like when the Palestine country and palestine nation was vanished from the history by Israel. Right?
'wipe' is used in active form. I wipe the table.
Vanish is used (usually in passive form) It was vanished. It refers natural course. Significant difference.
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 23 Apr 2009 08:33:57 |
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