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Karamba
United Kingdom
3820 Posts |
 Posted - 15 Feb 2009 : 15:11:07
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Janko,
No better way of putting it. To impress on good people the idea of sparing a leader staying on because of doing well on the job is typically naive. Life has to go on. Leaders have to give way no matter how much they perform. It is dull thinking to expect perpetration as normal. |
Karamba |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2009 : 20:36:56
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janko
quote:
Because “term limit” has nothing to do with a good or bad leader or the fear that the next coming leader could be worst,
The need for term limit is about to negative side, abuse. To open a new leaders may be good idea but that is not really why term limit came out as a useful too when it comes to politics.
Are you saying it is good for gambia because it bring new ideas? Or you want to get rid of the leader who abuse the power?
Which country in the western world there is a term limit? USA, France what else? Is there any term limit for Queen? Is there any term limit for British PM or german PM?
The need for term limit is not to open for new ideas. The real need is for term limit is to deal with abuse. Term limit is not that common in western democracies that are more stable. But it is a requirement in the democracies which are not stable and easy to turn to a totolitarian regime.
wiki:
A term limit is a legal restriction that limits the number of terms a person may serve in a particular elected office. Term limits are found usually in presidential and semi-presidential systems as a method to curb the potential for dictatorships, where a leader effectively becomes "president for life". |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 15 Feb 2009 20:56:53 |
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Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2009 : 21:49:44
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“...But it is a requirement in the democracies which are not stable and easy to turn to a totolitarian regime.”
The above is not true for the examples you gave above, USA and so fort. Even whereas it is not clearly stated in the constitutions of Western countries, it is a moral obligation for individuals and or parties, an unwritten law. It is very rare that a leader stays more than three terms as a leader of his/her party or the country.
I am discussing term limit as a political principle not if or not it applies to this or that country, or this or that leader, its not in the personal but general terms.
Besides nobody says because it is not common in the West so its bad… are you.
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Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
Edited by - Janko on 15 Feb 2009 21:51:56 |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2009 : 22:09:47
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I have never give example for USA> This example was for the countries that have unstable democracies. In the western democracies there is not need to have term-limit rule because there is no danger for the leader to became dicta. The ideal you are advocating, a new ideas, already exist. Why should they have term-limit? It is very rare that a leader stays more than three term because there is already stable democracy in west. So term limit is not really for western democracies. It is for the democracracies that are not stable.
You are discussin term limit as a political principle. I am distinguishing that the term limit is a need for the democracies that are not stable because without term limit there is a great deal risk that the regime may turn to a dicta. On the other hands the democracies that are established the term limit does not have significant benefits. There are already check and balances, as you confirmed my point by saying 'moral obligation for individuals and parties, an unwritten law'. And you go further confirming my point. 'it is very rare that a leader stays more than three terms as a leader of his or her party'. They usually volunteerly leave. So you actually agree with me with my point, so I wonder what is you are debating.
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2009 : 22:43:08
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"Which country in the western world there is a term limit? USA, France what else? Is there any term limit for Queen? Is there any term limit for British PM or german PM?"
Who wrote the above.....?
I most have lost you.... |
Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2009 : 00:31:50
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Yes, I did write above. In order to point that term limit is not really an issue or need for the western democracies. Brits do not care about term limit as one family have infinity in terms of their term. From the start I am telling you the term limit is a need for the unstable democracies to prevent abuse to avoid bad leadership.
You indeed lost the track of what I am debating.
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2009 : 00:45:30
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Maybe is because you are not clear or contradicting yourself..
...anyway did you get my point or the point of the post? |
Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2009 : 01:50:51
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Janko
I do not think I am contradicting myself.
I got your point that term limit is good. My point was
Term limit does not have significant benefits/ or not a significant need for western democracies.
However, term limit is essential for unstable democracies, in this case African democracies, as democracies do not have stablity and system does not have checks and balances, it is a must to have term limit to avoid the bad management and abuse.
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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Janko
Gambia
1267 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2009 : 09:22:47
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Yes.. turk, we are on the same page.
As you said in many words, there is a quiet term limit in Western democracies.
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Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2009 : 11:04:38
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| Janko you make me sleep. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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Karamba
United Kingdom
3820 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2009 : 23:27:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Janko
Yes.. turk, we are on the same page.
As you said in many words, there is a quiet term limit in Western democracies.
Janko,
Term Limit is an issue for every process of political disppensation required by good governance around the world. About term limit for the Queen, there is no EXPRESSED DESIRE by the larger population of UK to have another family take on the role of Queen. The existence of a QUEEN WITHOUT TERM LIMIT may be paying some rewards in terms of UK tourist attractions (who doubts that?)
We are dealing with TERM LIMIT for politicians on temporal position. In America or other countries where Term Limit is observed, it does not have to be an issue to cause concern. In the travel industry, each passenger on a particular journey is entitled to full stay onboard till end of journey (by sea, air, or by land.) There is no need to remind passgengers that they are due for disambarkation except by formality.
The point is that people who get to political positions have to play high sense and need nobody reminding about end of journey. To stay onboard and refusing to dislodge is weird.
Term Limit is a condition that anyone coming on the seat needs packing along when occupying the top position as that of President, Prime Minister or whatever title.
On the claim by Turk that people are unfair to Gambia's Yahya Jammeh. It is the reverse that stands firm. Yahya Jammeh is the MOST UNFAIR of beings. He is the one who came to power by force of arms and now insists staying for good. THAT IS THE MOST UNREASONABLE AND MOST UNFAIR political conduct. He deserves to be punched on legs, head, and shoulder. He invites trouble where it was avoidable. |
Karamba |
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Karamba
United Kingdom
3820 Posts |
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afonso
Gambia
13 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2009 : 07:39:02
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| Dear Karamba, I humbly appeal to you to immediately discontinue your arguments with the terrible "TURK". his ideas and comments are very biased and lack sense of direction. All he needs to know that the closer one gets to yahya, the nearer you are to disaster.Today he/she TURK might be a favourite but what has happened to many other favourites before is a lesson for all to learn.I feel we all have seen we Yahya took us from and where we are heading to nowadays.Gambia has been transformed to the laughing stock of the world by our President's weird actions and comments.I wonder where TURK was for the past 20 years or more? We will all live to tell one good day and if s/he is okay note that many others are suffering so if TURK cant console them please be quiet, as GOd hates merciless or heartless persons. Remember this is a small community and we all know each other.God bless Gambia and her friends.It pays nothing to be too defensive as it is a futile move to try to defend the undefendable |
Lets exchange valuable ideas |
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Karamba
United Kingdom
3820 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2009 : 23:03:42
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Afonso,
Welcome and thank you for that valuable input. Gambians are so badly disappointed. Gambians are in tears. The country is TEARING apart. People are soaked in TEARS. Not only has Yaya Jammeh played the cheat he proves to be. He has done more serious damage to society by inculcating merciless temper in the country's youths. Even after he is gone, these rotten bunch of persons calling them selves Green Boys will stay in the bad life. That is something to worry serious thinking Gambians. For his temporal selfish interest he misuses these vulnerable young people against good citizens.
Turk has a belief that Gambians deserve having Yaya Jammeh. In the ways of Turk, we are better off keeping Yaya because Gambia is populated by only the likes of Yaya Jammeh. That means when you change the person of Yaya, the next leader will be a replica of Yaya. Perhaps Turk needs to educate us if such a belief lends itself to a principle or practrice he is privy to.
Turk, you are wrong in what you take Gambians to be. Not all Gambians are like Yaya Jammeh. In fact, once Yaya is gone the next person will not dream of PLAYING YAYA. Otherwise, we prefer to change leaders One Thousand times till the most suitable candidate emerges.
No! Turk, some Gambians are very different from the person and character of Yaya Jammeh.
Lessons will be learnt and Gambia as a nation will make greater leaps in advancing our lot. This is year 2009. |
Karamba |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2009 : 02:28:44
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I believe the history will prove that I am right. This is not about Jammeh or Karamba, it is about the realities of Gambia. Gambia does not have conditions for for democracy. With the proper planning and along with wealth improvement, I say 50 years time is realistic.
I close my argument with agreement on disagreement. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 25 Mar 2009 09:38:13 |
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