 |
|
| Author |
 Topic  |
|
dbaldeh
USA
934 Posts |
 Posted - 30 May 2008 : 08:51:16
|
Turk I would love to meet your daughter the next President of Turkey. Am sure the sky is the limit for her. I hope she sits side by side with my daughter and talk about the progressive Africa made in unity and development.
Anyway, thanks for the rejoinder. I respect your view and disagreement on my analysis. I wanted to point out that Africa has had similar regional unions for several decades now. Just like in Europe uniting in segments before the big union, Africa has the same or similar forms of unions.
For example, we have had the Economic community of West African States (ECOWAS). The Francophone alliances (french speaking countries), the Organization of African Unity and now African Union. Africa have had these subregional unions but they simply did not address the socia political problems of Africa and Africans in general.
I belief leadership failure lead to all those in effective institutions. The indictions you refer to can best be led by visionary leaders who are willing to look beyond their borders.
My U.S example fits perfectly contrary to what you belief. Here is why, All the different people who migrated to the United States came from different cultures and religions, there had to be a civil war to win over other people who did not want to assimilate to the rest of the nation. Once the war was over, their leaders stepped up and formulate policies and visions that allowed every sector of the society to take advantage of the union. There remained several different ethnic groups and religious sectors in the United States, but because of their leaders visions the nation over came the divisions.
The same scenario can apply in Africa. Despite all our religious differences and ethnic origins we can also unite around a common purpose - progress and prosperity for all Africans. There was more enemity and difference between the Jewish and Christian religions in the United States, but because of sound governing policies that hatred has basically been eradicated.
The same thing can work for Africa. Muslims can begin to accept and embrace christians just like what is happening in the Gambia and the subregion. In fact almost in every African country you can find different religions existing side by side. Why can't African leaders formulate policies to harmonize the same relationship in other countries where it is lacking?
Leadership my friend is the nucleaus in any society. The policies of government guides what happens in the rest of society. The people are more likely to follow progressive policies of a state than a group of religious people.
Finally, I strongly stand behind my arguement that we have more similarities that differences. First of all we are all human beings and we all want the same thing in life. Life, liberty, dignity and self independence right?
We all depend on the same goverment and live by the rules of the state. We all want the samething for our kids - education and access to decent healthcare. No matter how others may feel we all want good health and progress for our kids.
From a social perspective the civil wars in Africa and endless government instabilities affects pretty much all of us. The fall of our currencies affect all of us. The lack of food supply affects majority of the people. Out break of diseases affects us all.
What about oppression by all the regimes and their so called Presidents across Africa? Which country in Africa is not Oppressed? Which African people would not like to get their freedom from military dictators? Come on Turk, you know we have more similarities than differences. Unless we are in denial we must admit what is good for the goose is good for the ganger. This is what I mean.... |
Baldeh,
"Be the change you want to see in the world" Ghandi
Visit http://www.gainako.com for your daily news and politics |
 |
|
|
turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 30 May 2008 : 10:57:48
|
dbaldeh
Sure, my daughter is half Gambian. Maybe they talk about politics in the future.
Thanks for the kind response. I still respectfully disagree. It is true there are regional unions but there are no progress verticaly and horizontally.
First of all vertically such saharan union have three major area. Legislation, Executive and Juristiction. First step in terms of Legislation, common constitution for the proposed Saharan Federation. Such legislatiion, constitution should be created by the each states parliement that would set the steps for the integration. Such constituion also unifies the legislation for prospective saharan countries. For example, Turkey is now in accession talks with EU. THis will take 10 to 20 years and activities will includes similar laws from immigration to tax. Or for example, the constituion will set a rule like 'budget deficit for each country can't be more than 10 % of the GDP". This way slowly nations law will get more familiar.
The second was juristicion. THere should be a court like, Sahara Supreme Court that has a duty to resolve legal conflict between states, also force the law to be similar within states.
The third is executive. Presidents/Primeminister must have common fiscal, foreign, agriculture, immigration etc. policies. There should be projects like transcontinental railway etc..
So presents unions like ECOWAS or other does not include complete level of integration. So that is why there is no progress. But most important disagreements about our view is horizantal integration.
My approach does not deny whole union of Africa. Our strategies are different. Your view is integration from Africa union at once than deal with the problems with the integration. Deduction. Your approach is destined to fail more likely because you would have to deal with all problems at once. So far African Union is failed because african nations does not progress because integration of whole continent is very difficult. My approach is domino effect. Start with the easiest problem, as you resolve the problem, the next problem would be much easier. In your approach, you start with the biggest problem once you fail, everythings fail.
Obviously leadership is important, we both agree on that. But my knowledge as I am viewing the accession talk between Turkey and EU, it is very difficult to unified two sides because society, politics and economic are very complex. For example, Turkey's obstacles with EU are following.
1. Cultural Differences. For example, Austria still does not trust Turkey as Turks are muslims and siege Vienna 500 years ago. Austrian mother still scare their child with the old Turkish stories. Imagine hutus, tutsi conflicts, or yoruba, igbo in nigeria. These people hate each other. It will take years to overcome the hate. So some countries just does not have to wait for this. Gambia and Mali can integrate and they don't have to wait to resolve the problem between hutus and tutsis or muslim yorubas and christian igbos in nigeria.
2. Economic differences. The policies must be integrated. For example, Turkey does not have much agriculture subsidies, or not much environmental standards. So usually there are conflict during the accession talks such as how much subsidy allowed by the government. Imagine, Most countries like in Sahara does not great agriculture like tropical africa. There may be conflicting between different economic realities from Sahara than tropical africa.
3. Religious differences. That is the most important one. Christian and Muslim africans will not be able to reconcile differences in short time. We see that in many part in the world not only in Africa. Integration of muslim sahara is much easier than with the christians.
I want to correct one of your statement. Civil war was not about the people of different cultures. It was totaly economic. Southern states were more like agricultural and slave owner. North were more trade, industrial and labor intensive. So division was not ethnic. It was economic.
Today religion and ethnicity is the most difficult division to overcome. What makes you think that already unified country nigeria's failure to reconcile muslims and christians, or hutus and tutsi in rwanda failure will be overcomed under such union.
There are less obstacles to integrate muslim sudanase and senegalise. They don't have to worry about religious differences.
Your similarities being human does not satisfy me. I mean jewish and palestine are both human too. But being human does not mean anything. Because human are social. We are very greedy, stubborn, and stupid at times. It is true, such union would great benefit for the life quality for africans but humans are just stupid. They mostly care their religion and ethnicity more than their family's welfare.
I do believe that saharan federation more realistic and practical. Such union would motivate the other african to integrate and it accelerates the unification process.
|
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
|
|
|
dbaldeh
USA
934 Posts |
Posted - 30 May 2008 : 19:43:26
|
Turk, thanks for another enlightening round. On balance we agree on the fundamentals, the prerequisite for starting a stronger total African integration. We agree that good leadership is a most in any road map to a union bigger or smaller.
We also agree that some frame work or basic foundation for regional integration have been in existence for quite a while now in Africa. You actually seem to misunderstand my point in that I did not say any where that we should start with outright integration of African countries.
On the contrary, what I stated is that African Union is a possibility and it is indeed feasible if African leaders are sober enough to realize the importance of the union. So you are taking me out of context or do you just want to draw distinctions where it does not exist in substance?
I fundamentally disagree with you that other Unions around the world are able to overcome their differences while Africa and Africans cannot overcome their differences. Was it hard or still hard for Europe and America to overcome their differences being it economic, social or religious? absolutely. Have they succeeded in doing it? Definitely.
Now, can Africa and Africans be on the same path to Unity regardless of how long it takes? Must definitely. If they can do it, we can do it? Is it impossible? An emphatic NO. Would it be hard for Africa to overcome, you bet, but it can be done.
This is the difference between your position and my position. Yes, I agree we should start with regional integration, creating the same or similar institutions that you have sighted that we need to get a good head start.
Finally, I see your position as more pessimistic that optimistic. Far too long people have labelled Africa's challenges as almost impossible to achieve while embracing the task that other nations can accomplish anything.
I think Africans must stand tall and face the challenges that faces our people. We are no different than any other people. If people around the world can do it, we certainly can too.
It all starts with our leaders and then filters down to every citizen. Our mindset of pushing aside problems because they are harder to tackle will not cut it. Our generation must refused to be told we cannot do it. We must think for ourselves and shape our own destiny.
Thanks for a mature debate... |
Baldeh,
"Be the change you want to see in the world" Ghandi
Visit http://www.gainako.com for your daily news and politics |
|
|
|
turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 31 May 2008 : 00:25:44
|
| you're welcome. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
|
|
|
Dalton1
3485 Posts |
Posted - 31 May 2008 : 01:33:17
|
http://www.gainako.com/
Compatriots,
Let us give a salute to Hon. Sallah, Suwaibou Touray and the others for their brilliance. The launching of the book was very successful.
I haven't seen a lot of Gambians comment on the book. The book is a must read for all.
Hopefully after reading it, we can all engage in a healthy debate to promote unity, panafricanism and democracy.
Thanks always for the space. Thanks to all contributors & readers as well.
Dalton
|
"There is no god but Allah (SWT); and Muhammad (SAW)is His last messenger." shahadah. Fear & Worship Allah (SWT) Alone! (:
|
Edited by - Dalton1 on 31 May 2008 01:44:06 |
|
|
|
Moe
USA
2326 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2008 : 05:07:17
|
Thanks Jay, I hope you make president for you owe me a job now bro. I promise you will not be misled and please just keep laughing it 's gonna be alrite. LOL........................................Peacequote:
Originally posted by Janyanfara
quote:
Originally posted by turk
Hey Moe did you hear the news? The news wrap up on the year 2015
- African Confederation of Sahara (ACS) opened the railway from the atlantic ocean (Dakar) to Red Sea.
- ACS completed the oil/natural gas pipeline that connect the Sudanese and Gulf Oil to Atlantic ocean and Banjul became the hub of oil/natural gas to Americas.
- ACS using Solar and Wind Power becaming the first state in the world producing eco-friendly electricity. ACS became the biggest electricity exporter to the EU.
- ACS send peacekeepers to Cyprus, Kosova, Haiti.
- ACS is getting ready to organize 2018 Football World cup and 2020 Olympics first time in the continent of Africa.
- ACS will accept 200,000 immigrants from Europe, China, India and South America.
- The scientist from ACS vacination for Malaria reduced the casualities by Malaria to zero. ACS scientist testing HIV vacination before it comes out to the market.
My brother,
You are a great idea I don't mean you have ideas,you yourself are ideas.I swear If I were president I will today appoint you my adviser no matter your age.
You see though your news is like an almost impossible thing,but the idea once implimented by our leaders,we could join the rest of the continent and even without them,all your dreams would come to pass.Infact we could do more.
God bless you I like possitive thinkings like this.Our leaders should listen to ideas like this rather than meeting everytime settling disputes, wars, famines, aids and all kinds of human right abuses ect Africa oh Africa!
I can't laugh I am sad.
:)
|
I am Jebel Musa better yet rock of Gibraltar,either or,still a stronghold and a Pillar commanding direction
The GPU wants Me Hunted Down for what I don't know ..... |
Edited by - Moe on 06 Jun 2008 05:11:00 |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
| Bantaba in Cyberspace |
© 2005-2024 Nijii |
|
|
|
Topic Locked
