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jambo
3300 Posts |
 Posted - 18 Apr 2008 : 11:22:53
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Those of you who read my postings  know that every now and then I ask a qustion that is thoughtful, (see the travel section for another one )
so for this month my question is this
is Gambia a poor country or a country where people live in poverty. Is it a play on words, because I believe you can be poor in a rich country, do no believe that the rich countries don't have poor families, but the country as whole is not in "POVERTY".
But what makes it POVERTY STRICKEN vs POOR.
Is there a measuring stick.
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MeMe
United Kingdom
541 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2008 : 13:07:39
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For me, a 'poor' country means one which has few natural resources (I think the Gambians on this site would be best placed to comment on that) ... as for poverty, I think it's extremely important to acknowledge that 3.8 million children - one in three - are currently living in poverty in the UK, one of the highest rates in the industrialised world. Babylon is no more  |
It is better to die standing than to live on your knees - Ernesto Guevara de la Serna |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2008 : 13:24:10
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| Natural resources are very important, but in a world largely transitioning into service and experiential economies natural resources are not the only factor... |
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Lily
United Kingdom
422 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2008 : 11:47:13
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| I think Gambia is a poor country where many people (though not all) live in poverty. |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2008 : 12:06:29
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There is ABSOLUTE poverty and RELATIVE poverty.
In Gambia the poverty is absolute. The majority of people are struggling to meet their basic needs. This is very hard, but because the majority of people are in the same condition it seems less socially damaging. (A bit like UK in the depression or the war years). People pull together and live as a community.
In UK the poverty is relative. There is an 'underclass' of very poor people COMPARED to the majority. They cant afford good quality food and clothes, good housing, nice cars, good holidays (the things that are now considered normal and almost essential). This is very hard. The better off 'blame' the poor, thinking it is all of their own making. The poor have to see the richer people with their nice things all the time. This breeds envy and contempt. Crime is high and compassion is low.
In the UK basic needs are met by the state, but the emotional well being of individuals and communities seems worse than in the Gambia.
To put it blunty the poor in UK seem less 'happy' than the poor in Gambia.
Of course this is simplistic and a big generalisation. But in my personal experience it is true. Give me the choice between a run down council estate in an inner city area in UK or a Gambian village I know where I would rather live!!!! |
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Karamba
United Kingdom
3820 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2008 : 23:25:28
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The compact majority of Gambians resign to faith when faced with emotional encounters or hardship. Very likely there is absolute poverty. Attitudes towards imposing circumstances matter so much when comparing Gambian and British people. Lot of poor people in Gambia blame it on no other person but accept their fate by faith. You are seen LUCKY or UNLUCKY; fortunate or unfortunate. Many people are not assertive enough to recognise CAUSES and EFFECTS with a view to challenge possible hurdles to personal situations.
It is that tolerance politicians and profitering people in commerce take advantage of. Politicians get it so easy and they play it well.
Down to the issue of poverty and the poor, the economic principle of insatiability respects no bounds. There are happy poor people in Gambia and grumpy rich and poor in Britain and lot of European countries. It is possible that some poor people are happier than lot of rich people. For whatever reasons, I may not know. |
Karamba |
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Sister Omega
United Kingdom
2085 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2008 : 18:18:57
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Gambia is richer than what it was ten years ago materially. However if your experiences are mainly in the Tourist area than I think you are bound to get a distorted view of the country in relation to its poverty. Apart from those working in the industry. It is true that in many ways life in Gambia has got harder today but isn't that the case in many countries as a result of globalisation and the credit crunch? Many Gambians reminisce on the good old days when they could sit and didn't have to make much effort to satisfy their bellies. Now things have changed people have to go out to work to make ends meet. They have also been given more education to widen their options in the job market or to diversify their skills into other areas.
Gambians aren't all living in absolute poverty. Gambia is socially rich in its diversity. For example people speak to each other, help each other, Food is tax free, unlike Britain. People don't pay mortgages. Therefore those who own their own houses own them outright and their land. Unlike in the UK where someone pays tax on their food, pays a mortgage, and in most cases possess no land outside of the Freehold of their house or they are leaseholders. Not forgoting those who rent, and the homeless divided into those in bed & breakfast, temporary accommodation, hostels, sleeping on friends and families floors and last but not least those sleeping on the streets of Britain in door ways etc. Poverty is indeed relative to where you live.
Gambia is Socially rich. Britain is socially impoverished. There are people who live in Britain who can't afford decent housing, clothes food, or fuel. There are elderly people who are forced to return to work six months before they are due to claim their pension. These people are not advertised as part of the UK Tourist brochure. In contrast a poor person in Gambia may not have a large disposable income but owns the roof over his/her head, has food in their field to eat, and knows their neighbours and has family support.Is much more richer than someone who is living in mansion with all the things that money can buy and is extremely lonely.
The majority of the world maybe poor but if love was a thing that money could buy the rich would live and the poor would die!
Peace
Sister Omega
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Peace
Sister Omega |
Edited by - Sister Omega on 20 Apr 2008 21:01:44 |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2008 : 19:27:12
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Sister Omega, I agree with you 100% on this one! 
I once had a very interesting conversation in Kolior village trying to explain about old people being lonely in UK. The concept of an old peoples home was very difficult to explain. Where are their children people asked..are they dead? No busy living their own lives...It was beyond comprehension.
The same holiday I was priviledged to visit a family in Pirang where an old man was dying. I was taken straight into the room where his bed was. The Iman was there blessing him. His wives, children and grandchildren were all close to hand.
I spoke to him through my guide. Wishing him peace and saying what a comfort it must be to be surrounded by his living legacy. I told him that many people in Uk die alone and lonely or in hospital beds. He had died by the time I returned to UK.
Death is part of life in Gambia and so is poverty. But no one can take away that community. In UK working class that sense of community was strong for many years. In alot of areas it is failing now. Material things seem more important than people.  
The Gambia way of life where people are more important than things and the elderly are respected reminds me so much of my childhood. I have an iffinity with Gambia because of that. I feel at home in the village.
I was lucky enough to have an extended family, to have christmas dinner with 16 other people I was related to, to celebrate birthdays and Easter etc as a family. We all went on holidays together: kids, cousins, aunties, uncles, parents, grandparents, great aunts and uncles. Very happy times.
I am sure there are some people that still do this in the UK, but I am also sure their numbers are decreasing.
There is a difference between poverty and an impoverished life. Life in UK for many poor people is very impoverished. |
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Sister Omega
United Kingdom
2085 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2008 : 21:19:53
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Hi Bev, Yes I too remember those good old days with my large extended family sitting around the table as a child. For my birthday last year 5 generations of my family came over to celebrate it with me. However for the poor in Britain there is more hope now of breaking out of the poverty trap with welfare to work programs. More of the long-term unemployed are receiving support to get into work. However with the uncertainty of the British economy as recession glooms on the horizon it will be very interesting to see whether or not unemployment is set to rise as it did to the levels of the 80's.
Britain could really learn from Gambia and other countries about building sustainable social capital. This would go along way in tackling issues such as anti-social behavior etc.
Peace
Sister Omega
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Peace
Sister Omega |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2008 : 22:21:21
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I am a labour party member and feel they have done lots of good. But right now things are changing for the worst! Think media are talking UK into a recession. Also dont like policy of getting rid of 10% tax level for low earners. Poorest workers hit hard.
People need incentive to get off benefits and work. I really dont understand the thinking behind htis policy. Lots of people will be better off not working and claiming benefits. |
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MeMe
United Kingdom
541 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2008 : 11:12:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Sister Omega
Gambia is richer than what it was ten years ago materially. However if your experiences are mainly in the Tourist area than I think you are bound to get a distorted view of the country in relation to its poverty. Apart from those working in the industry. It is true that in many ways life in Gambia has got harder today but isn't that the case in many countries as a result of globalisation and the credit crunch? Many Gambians reminisce on the good old days when they could sit and didn't have to make much effort to satisfy their bellies. Now things have changed people have to go out to work to make ends meet. They have also been given more education to widen their options in the job market or to diversify their skills into other areas.
Gambians aren't all living in absolute poverty. Gambia is socially rich in its diversity. For example people speak to each other, help each other, Food is tax free, unlike Britain. People don't pay mortgages. Therefore those who own their own houses own them outright and their land. Unlike in the UK where someone pays tax on their food, pays a mortgage, and in most cases possess no land outside of the Freehold of their house or they are leaseholders. Not forgoting those who rent, and the homeless divided into those in bed & breakfast, temporary accommodation, hostels, sleeping on friends and families floors and last but not least those sleeping on the streets of Britain in door ways etc. Poverty is indeed relative to where you live.
Gambia is Socially rich. Britain is socially impoverished. There are people who live in Britain who can't afford decent housing, clothes food, or fuel. There are elderly people who are forced to return to work six months before they are due to claim their pension. These people are not advertised as part of the UK Tourist brochure. In contrast a poor person in Gambia may not have a large disposable income but owns the roof over his/her head, has food in their field to eat, and knows their neighbours and has family support.Is much more richer than someone who is living in mansion with all the things that money can buy and is extremely lonely.
The majority of the world maybe poor but if love was a thing that money could buy the rich would live and the poor would die!
Peace
Sister Omega
It's (unfortunately ) not often that you and I are on the same page when it comes to some of the topics posted here, Sister, but this time I'm happy to say that you took my little paragraph and cleverly expanded the reasoning behind what I was trying to get at! Thanks for that!!
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It is better to die standing than to live on your knees - Ernesto Guevara de la Serna |
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sab
United Kingdom
912 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2008 : 15:14:27
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quote:
is Gambia a poor country or a country where people live in poverty. Is it a play on words, because I believe you can be poor in a rich country, do no believe that the rich countries don't have poor families, but the country as whole is not in "POVERTY".
But what makes it POVERTY STRICKEN vs POOR.
Is there a measuring stick
Human poverty in Gambia:
Gambia, ranks 94th among 108 developing countries.
The Gambia is ranked 155 out of 177 in the latest Gambia’s human development index 2005
The population living below the National poverty line in The Gambia is recorded as 57.6%
29% of the population is undernourished
59.3% live on less than $1 a day
Maternal mortality ratio 730 per 100,000.
TB 352 per 100,000
http://hdrstats.undp.org/countries/country_fact_sheets/cty_fs_GMB.html
http://hdrstats.undp.org/countries/
Safe drinking water? Sanitation?
Jambo, In my opinion the majority of Gambians live in poverty.
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The world would be a poorer place if it was peopled by children whose parents risked nothing in the cause of social justice, for fear of personal loss. (Joe Slovo - African revolutionary) |
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