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Alhassan
Sweden
813 Posts |
 Posted - 26 Jan 2008 : 10:09:55
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quote:
Originally posted by kondorong
TATTAGI TASNA means the "fortress has collapsed" in wolof. TATA unfortunately is a mandinka word for fortress. Do you know the history of TATA, how its constructed etc.
I sure know those times. Well there cannot be any early years of PPP than LILAHI WARASULI which gave rise to the party. So i am not talking about recent things. can you read again.
kondorong,
This is were I see we have too much differences. This are I am refering to is arround Gluster, Lancaster, Primet , Streets(Upper Soldier Town ward in Banjul). It was a strong UP area which one of the politicins from the PPP who lived in Banjul managed to win. Then the people in Banjul had this slogan" TATTA GI TASSNA" TATTA in Wollof means Castel. |
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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2008 : 11:52:44
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another Letter from Lamin Darboe not Lj.
I have great admiration for you but that admiration is being extremely exercised by the veiled arrogance you exhibit lately toward your contributors especially in the person of Suntou Ture. You really undervalue the guy. He is no moron and his persona is no oxymoron for tribalism.
First he is chartered certified accountant currently embarking on a Masters program in Islamic finance and banking at mark field University, Leicester UK. His is a mixture fana fana, Mandingo and Fulla if you would know. He can speak all these languages fluently so I don't visualise him an agitator of tribal discord.
It is sacrosanct for us all to rise above pedestrian politics and concentrates on constructive debate premised on the need to maintain Gambian unity, fraternity and progress. If there is any perceptive exhortation of this century for the Gambia and Africa is to celebrate and appreciate tribal difference, harness our individual competences as an instrument of development not retrogression.
No one will enter Janna as result of your tribal pigmentation if you like. And Janna is the pinnacle of success.
Gambia is a tiny country which cannot afford to engender tribalism. As Ahmet Deedat said in his lecture, "anyone (any nation for that matter); that resort to the distinction of race, blood and language is bound to perish." We are a very mixed nation where inter-tribal marriage is celebrated and it has been tranquilizer for discord and malevolence; that should be nurtured not stunted by individuals who have superficial love for our nation. Nay, they have cultist ambitions with penchant for image and elitism.
Thanks
Lamin darboe
Leicester UK
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Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2008 : 16:24:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Alhassan
quote:
Originally posted by kondorong
TATTAGI TASNA means the "fortress has collapsed" in wolof. TATA unfortunately is a mandinka word for fortress. Do you know the history of TATA, how its constructed etc.
I sure know those times. Well there cannot be any early years of PPP than LILAHI WARASULI which gave rise to the party. So i am not talking about recent things. can you read again.
kondorong,
This is were I see we have too much differences. This are I am refering to is arround Gluster, Lancaster, Primet , Streets(Upper Soldier Town ward in Banjul). It was a strong UP area which one of the politicins from the PPP who lived in Banjul managed to win. Then the people in Banjul had this slogan" TATTA GI TASSNA" TATTA in Wollof means Castel.
There is no difference. I did not want to go into dirty tribal issues. I explained to you that TATAGI TASNA means the fortress has collapsed. in othr words, the priviledge that shield that gruop is gone. It was a loss of their grip on power. In ancinet times, when they say tatagi tasna, it means they lost the war. Clearly what happened or they claimed to have happend to them in Banjul. This TATAGI TASNA is directly related to BABA NATA that i talked about before.
WhenBABA NATA failed, then TATAGI TASNA became inevitable. That led to the Badibunka area of Tobacco road being the only mandinka sagegated part of Banjul. Its the oly part where Mandinkas live.
But you alhassan, sagregation was long practiced since 1816.
There was a diving line beteween the haves and have nots. I will explain further.
Guess what i am out because you want to bring me into the mud sling which this comments seems to want. I dont want to get into dirty tribal issues.
Ask an elderly Badibunka what BABA NATA means. Do your own research. i know abit of my history.
Bye. There are certain things left unspoken. |
“When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always.” |
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jan 2008 : 07:43:38
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Alhassan
I will tell you a little history of Banjul. Banjul was populated by Senegalese in 1816 and more specifically from NDARR(St Louis) after the Battle of Waterloo with Napoleon and the French lost. This was the period called the Colony of SeneGambia when parts of present day senegal and gambia were under British rule.
Ndarr was part of Bristish colony. Infact during this time, the British colonial administrator was in St. Louis. Go to the archives in Dakar and you will be suprised to find colonial records in English in the Senegalese archives. This partly explains why virtually every one in Banjul has family in Senegal(uncles cousins etc).Thats why Senegalese religious events are more popular in Banjul than any town in the Gambia. Its a proof of the historical lineage of the settlers in banjul coming from St. Louis.
The people (of Bistish descent) as merchants and administrative staff came to banjul to populate the town under Captain Grant who fought with Duke of Wellington at the Battle of Waterloo. He was promoted to come to the gambia and it was around the same time the city of Wellington was founded. Grant street in banjul was named after him as i was told. He laid out the current plan of banjul.
When he came in, he sagregate banjul based on tribes. This tribal issue was a deeply resented issue. Maccarthy square was the diving line between the colonial quarters and the africans. You did not cross the empty space. Banjul then had sub areas called Jolof Town, Soldier Town and Portuguese Town. Each of these sub settlements were based on tribe and profession. I am not going to tell what each constitued. It was dirty tribal politics from the very start. Maccarthy square was a symbol of sagregation in Banjul. It was after so many years, the empty space was turned into a public park, but it originally was set up to separate people in the town.
So anyone who claims to be of an indegene of Banjul most likely is a descendant of the Senegalese who populated the town after it was bought from the King of Kombo in 1816. Pierre Njie is infact from Saloum originally where his grand father Semou Joof was the last King of the region. so the hype about Pierre Njie is unfounded. Pierre Njie was taken to court not by Jawara or PPP members. Pierre was dragged to court by his own client and won a case against him. It had nothing to do with politics or the independence struggle. It was a private law suit between an attorney and a client. In a compromise, his license was revoked to not be abale to practice law. Its that simple. All the hype about the QC case and the ther was just a political tool todeflect attention.
Besides who has not convereted to christianity in the 1950s. You had to do it to succeed. That fashion then delayed many other rural people from being allowd to go to school because they were then believed to eventually convert. Jawara was not the only one who converted.
Just like indegenes of Maccarthy are all Nigerians and Ghanians, the indegenes of Banjul are infact Senegalese brought in from St. Louis. So tell me, who have more rightful claim to banjul, the people of Kombo or those who came with captain Grant in 1816. You be the better judge. We all came from somewhere so its very irrelevant now. This tribal issues based on who came where and when is what brought ivory coast to disaster where a former Prime Minister could not be prsident because he was not a citizen in the first place but he was citizen enough to be prime Minister.
I will tell you that one of the sub towns of banjul then was mainly populated by maids and servants of English merchants and the colonial staff. So the idea of maids to have been from our southern border is absolutely untrue. It was much later that the tides turned. Infact in the travels of Mungo Park such maid/servant relations were in existence then by Slave Traders where a beautiful local african was used as both a domestic servant and for pleasure. History is very nasty and dirty and the deeper we dig, the more horrible it will become.
The serer community inhabited one of the towns which mainly consisted of the artisans and crafts. They came from St. Louis a historical evidence that today, St. Louis is on the World Heritage list for its contribution in the arts and craftsmanship. We owe great gratitude to the people of St. Louis because they enriched our skills to this day. Youssou Ndour came from the same Serer lineage of artisans and those involved in the arts. Thats why you have the song TAKOSAN NDARR.
So lets not waste time as to who came first, the egg or the chicken. It matters less so long as you have an egg and a chicken. Fry the egg for an omlet or roast your chicken for YASSA. Either way you become a winner. Lets see the glass as half full and not half empty. Just like in the GEICO commercial where the Queen wants to find out whether you want to have diner at the Palace or the castle. You cannot go wrong with either choices.
1816 has since passed and our laws recognise that any perosn born to a Gambian is gambian.It matters not when. So verey one in Banjul is equally a citizen as the farmer in Yoro bawol under the mango tree.
The island used to have a huge outgrowth of bamboo trees which unfortunately have all been cut down to make KIRINGING houses some of which still stand to this day.
There was apartheid in Banjul from the onset in 1816. I am not suprised that, that long harbored division still looks as fresh as if it happened this morning.
Rememeber it was divide and rule and the bigger problem was the fact that non gambians from St. Louis came to take over the land. The King of Kombo did infact write a protest letter for his land to be given back him now that the colonialist did not live up to the spirit of the sale of the piece of Land. The King was one Chief Bojang and i believe from Yundum.
The first evidence of records in the Archives regarding a mosque in Banjul was an application from a Fualni religious leader with the last name Bah. His name was either momodou or Abdoulie. I read it years ago. His permit to build a mosque i believe was granted.
So banjul very well fits what the Wolofs call DOH DAJAY where everyone came and stayed. Dont get me wrong. I believe in free movement of people. The people of Ndarr are our own people. This partly gives the senegalses the desire to take what is theirs regarding the founding of Banjul.
Partly alos why Senegal oposed gambian independence in 1965 until the United Nations had to come to find out for themselves and were met with demonstrations.
In the end, it was our will to be independent that fianlly gave us nationhood. The UN did not want to admit a member that could not support itself. Thats why Rice Berkley called us "The Birth of an Improbable Nation" which Jawara did not like in 1965 and banned the Book in the country. Infact the independence gift we had from senegal was fish whic was probably caught in gambia waters and the fish wa poured at the wharfs in bajul for meals. It was a coded gift. It meant we will not survive and will probably starve. At that time in 1965, gambia was a hopeless nation but we beat the odds. The generation that saw 1965 have forever remained grateful for the advances made. For younger gambians we cannot fanthom the situation then and threfore makes us impatient and rightly so we should be.
You see we are all one people and lets celebrate our diversity. In 1965, there were slogans in banjul on walls some of which said " Jawara Go Back to your country". The writer meant the Protectorate which was adminstered diffrently from the Colony. Unfortunately the writer did not then understand that those two distinct administrative set ups were legally defunct with the lowering of the Union Jack and the raising our our red, white, blue and green flag at the stroke of midnight on February 17, 1965 at the Maccarthy square; the very ground that divided our people but united us all on Independence Day.
It was the biggest irony in our historical evolution for those historians who followed closely. Lets celebrate the symbol of maccarthy square which divided us and united us to this day. It shows a people committed to overcome difficulties, can always overcome adversities. The difference between possible and impossible is a measure of one's will.
Lets not be dreaming in the colonial era. Divide and rule by Lord Luggard was created to do just that. Divide us and make it difficult for us to see a common goal and destiny that we can and should be valuable memebers and partners in the advancement of human civilisation. Thats not what i cherish and yearn for. Not what tribe or cultural virtues i celebrate as a memeber of a multicultural society.
I see beyond my tribe and language. I see my country, the gambia participating in the international arena and not be a consumer of civilisation. This petty tribal dogmas is what is taking us as a country, continent and a race back to the stone ages whilst the rest of the human race are busy trying to populated outer galaxies in our solar system. Lets dream big.
Like Nkrummah said in 1956, that his resolve for an independent Ghana and a liberated Africa was reinforced by a poor fisherman who donated his poor savings to his campaign. If people of those humble backgrounds can muster the courage and convictions, then for us sitting behind a computer screen we must not try to fail the hope that is bestowed on as as educated people to help them out of misery, deprivation, and neglect.
The paragraph below copied from Obama's victory speech in South Carolina, i believe was paraphrased from a section of one of Nkrummah's Books "Africa Must Unite " where he talked about a contribution by a poor fisherman. The historical semblances are too similar for it to be an accident.
"But here’s what I know. I know that when people say we can’t overcome all the big money and influence in Washington, I think of the elderly woman who sent me a contribution the other day – an envelope that had a money order for $3.01 along with a verse of scripture tucked inside. So don’t tell us change isn’t possible.." Senator Obama
Nkrummah said almost similar sentences about a poor fisherman's contibution of one Guinea to his campaign. I do know that great minds think alike.
Read the link below. You cannot but jump out of your seat and shout "Yes we can". Thats what africa needs. Leaders who are very optimistic and ready for a change. Like Martin Luther King said ".. gradualism leads, to doing nothingsm, which which leads to stand stillsm..."
http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/samgrahamfelsen/CGxdg
We must not stop at the mountain top. We must deliver our people to the Promised Land. That task is a duty of every son and daughter of that country called Gambia.
As i will borrow words from the Obama Campaign " Yes, We Can". Lets ".. remain ever true to our motherland.." as enshrined in our national anthem.
Long live a prosperous gambia actively being a source of inspiration to every nation. YES WE CAN. The politics of heplessness, and indifference should now be thrown in the gutters. Living in the past only makes one bogged down by irrelevant issues whilst blinding us to the future that has now become so unpredictable requiring highly focused leaders. We cant afford to blink. YES WE CAN.
This politics of patronage is the greatest enemy of progress from Cassablance to the Cape of God Hope. lets hope for the best. Like Colin Powell once said ".. optimism is a force mulltiplier.."
Good bye to this topic |
“When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always.” |
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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jan 2008 : 11:26:22
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| kondorong ,great, great lessons. keep it up brother. |
Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
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ylowe
USA
217 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2008 : 02:29:03
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| THANKS AGAIN KONDORONG |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2008 : 09:51:49
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| Thanks for the history Kondorong... |
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njucks
Gambia
1131 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2008 : 11:05:38
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 hahahha Kondorong you exceed yourself. you're back to your old self..... had some fresh milk from Yoro Bawol recently.
anyway i think you are using Banjul and St. Mary's Island interchangeably. there is a slight difference. Banjul (formally Barthurst) is just a City on the north of the Island. It is the Island that was bought from the King of Kombo.
this is why land is freehold in Banjul and leased in the Kombos i think. |
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2008 : 16:30:56
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Njuks
There never was and is a place called St. Mary's Island. There was no difference. The colony in Banjul was extended all the way to lamin Bridge. That area was called Kombo St. Mary's or locally Kombo Toubaba Banko. When i speak of the colony i mean the area which spanned from banjul to lamin Bridge.
Well i never said Kombo St. Mary's was bought. I said banjul was bought in 1816 and populated by British merchants from St. Louis where the colonial governor was then seated.
How do you know i exceed my self. You can never exceed oneself. |
“When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always.” |
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njucks
Gambia
1131 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2008 : 17:12:38
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quote:
Originally posted by kondorong
Njuks
There never was and is a place called St. Mary's Island.
hahah, you may wish to read Laws of The Gambia, Cap 33:03 City of Banjul ( Re-naming) Act.
this was the Act that changed the name from Bathurst to Banjul. The island on which the City (Bathurst) laid on, was also changed renamed from St. Mary's Island to Banjul Island.
Kombo St. Mary's is a strip of land equally bought just off St. Mary's Island, that's why it was called Kombo St. Mary's.
After that read Cap 33:04. if you still have interest in the Law read Cap 33:05 and 33:06 which regulate closing of streets and Palm wine Duty in Banjul respectively.
The law is very clear, infact there is a reason why banjul is the ONLY City in The Gambia!
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2008 : 17:54:14
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I dont want to engage into semantics and as always you are right. St. Mary's was the area where Bakau and Mile 7 is today. Banjul was Barturst you are right and then changed to banjul in 1970 or 71 i believe. It was not changed after independence immediately if my memory serves me right.
Infact official Govt. letter heads still carried the words" On her Majesty's Service" even after independence. So things change very slowly.
You are talking about very recent historical developmants that happended less than 50 years ago.
The moment i hear Cap i new i was dealing with post 1965 public document. They used to be SSN. Find out what is SSN. That is a research for you.
The change of Bathurst to Banjul is very recent less than 40 years. Any one who was not aware of that must be a very little kid. I am talking about colonial times you are talking about post independece. We cant see eye to eye. Dont throw the punch below the belt. Its unfair. |
“When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always.” |
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Alhassan
Sweden
813 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2008 : 18:50:08
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Kondorong,
I do not know what you are talking here , about the division of people in Banjul. One part of my family came to the Gambia with Sait Matty Bah and some others were setteled in Banjul by Mamadi Maniang. I Know of Salikeneh Ba befor Tobacco road. Mama Tamba has had this place for a long time before the time you are recalling here.There is a Kuyaté family that I grew up with and they lived in Banjul.Tobacco road is a new settelement for us who know Crab Island and SHAPPI THUTY I have never heard of the division you mention here. All I know that there were these different wads during elections, I cannot remember BABA NATA. I am of the generation that cannot remember much of what you post here. Never heard of some of the things you mention either. I grew up with different people in Banjiul.
I know what I am talking about. I have no time to argue that much about Banjul. |
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Karamba
United Kingdom
3820 Posts |
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2008 : 19:55:28
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Alhassan
I dont know why i keep replying to this topic. I had said i was taking my exit. I dont want mudslinging.
Thank you all very much. If i made any mistakes, it was not intended. Keep to the history you know and was told. BA NATA came before TATTAJI TASNA.
What BABA NATA means ask a Badibunka old man in banjul.
Banjul like i said is DOH DAJAY as they say in wolof. Everey one came and stayed. Sait Matty is a very recent history in Gambian history. 1816 predates Sait matty. I think Sait is buried around bakau near some hotel. You are talking about a time that is just too recent. The Wards you talk about are recent [political) local council administrative units. Jolof town, Portuguese Town, etc predates that time. The wards you talk about were in the times of Garba Jahumpa when he participated in the early City wide elections. If you enter the Current BCC complex, that domed shaped garage on your left used to be City Chanmbers. The Late Semega Janneh who was Mayor of Banjul in 1965, was never paid salary and did infact talk to the British delegation to our independence if the Mayor in London was salaried. When he was told yes, he did ask for a payment.
It was the first time a head of a Gambian settlement was paid. That salary issue was infact tabled in the cabinet. It was a contentius issue.
Maccarthy Square was a a sagragated land dividing the colnial quarters which was situated along Marina Parade area all the way to the present Supreme Court Building lands. Infact the Supreme Court is built on graves of past colonial servants. Bodies were exhumed during construction if i rememeber well. (Not very sure) The Justice ministry, Natural Resuources, Water Resources, to Film Unit and Atlantic hotel covered the colonial employees areas to the state House. Thats why the Anglican Churc in the Quadrangle is situated where it is to serve the British nationals.
It was well after that Maccarthy Square became maccarthy Square. Like they say in mandinka : NI BEH NUNTO FOLA, IKEH NUNG LEH WULING DI. (if you talk about yesterday, you raise your nose.)
Mama tamba is also very recent. Some of his grand children are less than 40 years old. In fact he was a chief by Independence and Sheriff Dibba removed him from office. I cant discuss with you. His son was appointed the first local government position in the gambia if i remember well. Infcat his grand son is now the Permanent secretary(2) at Religious Affairs just to let you know i know the family. Medina sabah had a song for him and even the army parades are incomplete withut his song followed by DK SABARI tune which Jawara likes so much.
Good bye to all of you. |
“When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always.” |
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