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Jack
Belgium
384 Posts |
 Posted - 21 Mar 2006 : 16:24:02
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quote:
I reduced it to a minimum by wearing Gambian clothes. They are more than nice, they are not expensive, and they are the best for the Gambian climate (after all, I even wear them in summer in Germany, and they look great on me).
Prove that Serenata and maybe we can start a new topic about fashion |
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serenata
Germany
1400 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2006 : 18:16:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Jede
Prove that Serenata and maybe we can start a new topic about fashion
Be careful - from my place, it takes only an hour to go to Belgium  ! |
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molly75
United Kingdom
86 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2006 : 18:56:38
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| Moongarden: I agree that this type of behaviour only happens in the tourist areas, when i travelled to other areas i had no problem. I am travelling back to the Gambia in April and this time i am renting a house away from the tourist area, so hopefully things will be better. |
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molly75
United Kingdom
86 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2006 : 19:07:08
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serenata
Im sure that u do look very nice in Gambian clothes, but im not sure that i would look so good!!! I also don't think i want to have such a dramatic style change just to stop being harrassed. But thanks for the advice anyway. |
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Jack
Belgium
384 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2006 : 21:01:38
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Serenata and MOLLY
Lets make a fashion contest of it. Then we install a jury 50% man, 50% woman and within each sexe half african, half toubab so that nobody gets offended, no racism, no discrimination, no...
This Bantaba will become very interesting
By the way Serenata I'm living at the Belgian coast, so it must at least be 3 hours...  , but you're welcome. Take care in Belgium with high speed because traffic penalties are very expensive.  |
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kassma
334 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2006 : 21:44:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Babylon
quote:
Originally posted by kassma
its easy to talk about dignity when you have a nice warm house and a fridge full of food.
Yes that´s right, I do have a nice warm house and a fridge sometimes full of food... specially round x-mas.
And I worked my azz off to get it. And I don´t mean as a street hooker.
By the way, you´re starting to sound like a chihuahua on drugs everytime you make your pointless, neurotic comments.
But that´s alright, just keep on doing what you do best -bark (did you learn from DMX?) I like dogs...
babylon, calm down, no one is trying to argue with you. i have a nice warm house and a fridge full of food too. however (why it is so hard for you to see) the difference between me, you and other Gambian in Gambia is that we've hard to opportunities to earn our house and fridge full of food. so you think you're so great that if you were one of those poor Gambian girls, somehow you would still manage to earn everything you have now. get the stick out of your azz.  |
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kassma
334 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2006 : 22:09:03
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quote:
Originally posted by serenata
From an economical view, it is nonsense to say that prostitution 'supply' generates demand. Prostitution can be compared with drug traffick, and like in this case, demand is generating supply.
After the German reunion, when unemployment began to rise, we had TV programs who openly and shamelessly advertised prostitution as a 'normal' profession. So, if this is possible in a rich, western country, who is there to blame Gambians who try to sell sex?
For Gambians it is harder every day to earn the living. At the same time they are fed with unrealistic lifestyle images in European, Nigerian, Asian, or US films (as we all are), where everybody seems to be rich and lives in abundance. But if you know that there are still people in Gambia who take a fiction movie as documentary (believe me, I met them!), you may know where this could lead to. Let us be true - most of us, Africans as well as Europeans, have this 'me too'-attitude...
When I visited Gambia recently, I saw that meanwhile the armada of female sex tourists is reinforced by lots of old white men. I saw almost lapsed 70-somethings with girls under 18; a sight that, sorry, can make you vomit.
To the ladies who complain that they are being harassed during their holidays: I NEVER found this outside the tourist areas, and even in these areas, I reduced it to a minimum by wearing Gambian clothes. They are more than nice, they are not expensive, and they are the best for the Gambian climate (after all, I even wear them in summer in Germany, and they look great on me).
Serenata, i really appreciate your insight and opinion about this. i think when discussing other people's problems, it's always good to take yourself out of the equation and consider the people with these problems. |
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anna
Netherlands
730 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2006 : 00:41:38
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Quote from Moongarden:
so perhaps the solution is many things:
education to stop the problems from increasing with HIV/AIDS
grow the economy to create more jobs (nobody said the solutions were easy!)
laws or fines to discourage this behaviour
how about sending any tourists who are doing this straight home on the next plane - but i am not sure how this could work
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Moongarden,
I never saw so many references to HIV/Aids on schoolwalls as in several African countries. I wonder if the information is given to relevant agegroups at a time that it is more appropriate. You are right if you are wondering, like me, if the people in the Gambia are informed about the risks of unsafe sex effectively.
Rather, I would say that 'education' in general is imperative. This starts in my opinion with good teacher colleges. Also, the salaries teachers have in the Gambia are pitiful. Teachers with the right qualifications will probably try their luck elsewhere if they get the chance.
To create more jobs is indeed easier said than done, but it would help to see to a better infrastructure first of all. All the jobs are in the coastal area and the bosses are mostly foreigners, Lebanese or whatever. I always wonder how the people in Georgetown or Basse make a living. It would be much better there if these cities can be reached more easily, also for heavy transport bringing in goods that can be sold and distributed. I am also always amazed at the fact that the shops you find upcountry are mostly in the hands of Mauretanians. Why not Gambians??
I think there are laws in the Gambia which could prevent certain tourist groups from behaving the way they do. Sadly, there is also always someone around (some of you will not like this, but i mean in this case a Gambian)who is willing to look the other way in exchange for some money.
Corruption, man - there is corruption everywhere which makes it hard to maintain laws and give out fines. Be honest, people, and admit that there is corruption in the Gambia on all levels which makes it hard to create a society where people abide to the rules, be it Gambians or tourists!
You also stated that the big difference in financial status between the tourists and the people 'who are selling themselves' is the biggest reason for this (i suppose you mean prostitution). I am surprised at this statement, really. Believe me when i tell you that the european tourists that come to the Gambia are not rich people (to western european standards). The rich have their holiday homes in the south of France, or go golfing in Marbella or go on extensive Safaris in South Africa and stay in very luxurious lodges (comparable to Ngala Lodge, which is the only luxurious lodge i can think of in the Gambia, and Makasutu of course). Most europeans choose the Gambia as their holiday destination because it is cheap to fly there and to have an African experience at relatively little money.
Let me tell you a strange story: i once stayed a few days in Basse in a rather decaying hotel (the only one there, not much choice). The hotel could have been very nice, though, if proper care had been taken to maintenance it in time and to clean it from time to time. There was nothing there, no water and no electricity. One night after 'dinner' my Gambian man and i went into town to have coffee at one of these wooden tables you see everywhere where they make coffee and tea by candlelight and they give you good conversation as an extra. The whole town was dark, as it had been for some nights. Suddenly a familiar face appeared: the man who had taken us to the hotel a few days back. He said to us 'why are you not at the disco?' Disco?? There had not been any power for days..We walked back to the hotel and heard the noise from afar. There appeared to be a huge generator, and in the hotel garden were at least 150 people (with about another 50 waiting outside to get a ticket), most of them between 15 and 20 years old. I felt like being at a school disco in my own school (i teach at a business college here in Holland). Everybody, no exception, was dressed as if they walked straight from an MTV videoclip! How come? How was this possible? There is hardly power in Basse, i assume not many people are watching TV on a daily basis, there are hardly any tourists there and the ones that venture to this distant place are definitely not the type described in all the above postings. I saw maybe 3 or 4 white faces in the days i was there, and they were the backpacking type - very down to earth in their sandals and without any jewellery. Still, all the boys at the disco were wearing the latest 50Cents big shirts and the girls with a lot of hairextensions looking like Beyonce, lot of 'bling, bling' around!
When i am in the Gambia, i mostly stay in Bakau (Old Town) - never in Senegambia. In the bars like Lama Lama or Atlantic you see young Gambian people with the latest fashion and the latest mobiles. It confuses me, this demonstration of materialism - while we all know that around the corner of these bars people live in poverty, small children walk around in the same shredded too large t-shirts running up to me shouting for 'minti, minti' - while with most of them my heart aches to give them a proper wash and a good toothbrush.
I know i am walking on thin ice, but i have to say it: something is wrong here. The tourists get all the blame (and things happen there having to do with advantage-taking, it is undeniably true!), but sometimes i wonder about the priorities of the Gambian people themselves as well.
I love the Gambia, i love to be up country in my partner's native village and to be with his family. There is no competition there on who is wearing the latest fashion, people are proud to wear something clean and decent. They have far more important things on their minds, like how to feed the family tomorrow and the day after. The difference between the village and the Kombos is huge. Maybe some of you, Gambians taking part in this forum, come from such an environment originally. It is natural that you are nostalgic for the simple, dignified (but hard) life that you once knew in your place of birth.
Infrastructure is important for Gambian economy, but i know that when it will be there and the village will be an hour away from the coast instead of 4 hours, 'modern' ways will influence villagelife. In some respects positively (electricity, household appliances that will make the women's lives easier, radio, tv - so that you can be informed about the world around you (is that positive, i wonder) and in others negatively because it might inspire greed and the wrong kind of competition, which will make people dissatisfied with their lives so far.
I am doing the best i can to make a serious contribution to this forum, believe it or not. Whether i am in the Gambia, or out of it - I always occupy my mind on how to improve things, where to start. |
When an old African dies, it is as if a whole library has burnt down.
Amadou Hampate Ba (Mali) |
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njucks
Gambia
1131 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2006 : 01:23:23
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anna you know the gambia very well? i guess you're one of us now
today a friend of mine from back home came to visit me and i mentioned this debate and how heated its becoming, without letting me finish he said ''dont these females writing know that thats what the boys want, its all a game'. thats just his opinion so we'll leave it at that. i'm not generalising on anyside.
what ever it is in the final analysis we can just say someone has to act urgently and control all this nonsense. |
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moongarden
United Kingdom
38 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2006 : 12:17:18
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Good Morning Anna ,
it is evident from your words that you have thought about this and that you care deeply about this and i have to say that i find i am in agreement with you on almost all of what you say.
general education is indeed much needed and that this of course starts with educating the teachers and valuing and rewarding their contribution appropriately.
in the end all of these problems come down to politics - creating economic stability, jobs and tackling corruption. so we are watching the political debate happening now with much interest.
regarding what i said about the big difference in financial status i was really referring to the exchange rates rather than incomes.
looking around where i am working the average salary is around £15,000 a year and monthly after tax this would be around £900. my work colleagues would think nothing of spending £50 (at a rate of D47 to the £ this is D2350) on a night out in town with a meal, drinks and taxis.
£50 on a night out is not so expensive by european standards when you consider what else you could buy in the UK for £50 - for example our council tax bill is £100 each month.
I smiled when i read about your experiences in Basse - i have experienced this both in the Ukraine and in Laos. it can be very surreal only in the Ukraine the biggest fashion accessory was an uzi! alcohol and guns - i chose to go to go home to sleep early that night!
regarding the tourists getting all the blame it is also because of a lack of education on their part. many of them only want to sit in the sun and have drinks at the poolside. they do not take an interest in learning about the place they are visiting and are usually unaware of the way they are regarded or their environmental impact. (just don't get me started on discussing environmental matters!)
it is a big job to change things and the tools are very small but with each step the journey gets shorter.
Good Morning Njucks ,
i think that your friend has stated this correctly. it has indeed become a game and there is good money to be made for those who play it.
if the participants are adults and they are choosing to play this game when having the chances to do some other work then that is their choice. my sadness and anger comes when children are involved or where an adult has to do this against their hearts will because there are not other chances for work. |
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moongarden
United Kingdom
38 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2006 : 12:28:07
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Molly75 - i am also travelling in April so perhaps we will bump into each other somewhere!
Serenata your advice is good - i always dress modestly and i find i draw much less attention to myself although being the only toubab in the village or on the bus i stand out like a sore thumb. |
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molly75
United Kingdom
86 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2006 : 17:31:19
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| Moongarden maybe we will, it is a small world! Have a nice time anyway! |
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ncompasstraining
12 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2006 : 03:06:11
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Hi everyone
I just wanted to share some of my experiences with you to contribute to this discussion:
- I periodically work in the Gambia, and I sometimes travel alone, but mostly with colleagues who are all female too. We do experience strong advances from men in the tourist areas, which of course, we ignore.
- Lately, because my colleagues and I have been working in one village and got to know many people in the community, we are visited by mothers who are bringing their sons to see us, and we are being asked to marry them. I received a letter from one lady just yesterday, reiterating this request - her son is only 17 and I am 33!!
- On my last visit, I witnessed a young waitress being physically assaulted by an old British man. This man lives in the Gambia, and frequents the particular restaurant with his friends. I was furious, and not for the first time in Gambia, embarrassed to be British because of his conduct. I waited for a few seconds for someone to come to her assistance, but none of her colleagues did.
- On my colleagues last visit, she got chatting to an 11 year old boy. When my colleague got in the taxi to leave, the boys mum came out and put him in the taxi with my friend, and asked her to take him out for the day.
- When I was last in the airport in Gambia, there were three spanish men with a Gambian girl who was approximately 12-13yrs old. They were in the departure area and obviously taking her with them. I thought it was odd, and perhaps nosily, I kept watching them as she looked very sad and disorientated. Then one of the men reached over to her and pulled his face towards him and kissed her. I was appalled, and immediately reported it to the airport, out of concern for the girl's welfare. But no-one came to speak to the girl.
I have a number of points arising from this:
- Within any education in the Gambia, for all ages, the important thing is that people are empowered to claim their rights as human beings. Toubab's are not superior to Gambian people, and in fairness I feel it is only a small minority who think this way, but they must not be allowed to act or think they are either. If they are continually allowed to act in a superior way, they will continue to act in that way. What can be done to encourage people to stand up to them?
- Secondly, health and safety, and welfare of children is of real concern. Those tourists who visit the Gambia for more sordid reasons, really can have easy pickings of children if parents are so willing to let their children go off with Toubab's - and there perhaps should be a message to parents that just because a person is white does not mean they can be trusted. This also goes for the police in the Gambia, who are often turning a blind eye.
Sending your kids off with a Toubab (or any other stranger for that matter) does not mean a life of prosperity and happiness, it could be quite the opposite.
- Thirdly, there was a point earlier on this discussion board about prostitution and the links with poverty. I agree that this is a proven link, but prostitution comes in many forms. It is not just an activity of 'the poor', in fact there are many affluent men and women who are 'kept' in material luxury in exchange for relationships.
Prostitution CAN.....and please I say CAN.....also be a choice. My cousin is a 'high class' prostitute in Jersey, she is also a qualified accountant, but prefers prostitution as it gives her a better standard of living. For her, it is an easy way of making quick and a lot of money.
The difference for my cousin is that she had many choices of career paths, but for some of the Gambian men and women engaging in prostitution, their choices are limited. It is understandable that the promise of material goods or money can be alluring, even addictive, and this is a difficult cycle to break.
My experience of the Gambia is that it is a beautiful and rightfully proud country, but often I find myself wishing that people who make a stand to claim their rights and protect each others welfare. However, I know how difficult it is when a country is not a true democracy, when people fear reprisal for protest, or contacting the media, etc.
What can those of us who work in the Gambia do to help citizens affect any change, without compromising dignity?
Sorry if this is a mish-mash of thoughts....I was on a roll!
Any ideas appreciated, and I hope this posting hasn't offended anyone!
Sincerely
Suryiah
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dave
Ireland
89 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2006 : 23:19:32
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It might be a mish mash but I find myself agreeing with all your views. I am 45, a white male that has vistited many times and, of course, have taken some people "under my wing". One of whom is a 7 year old girl, whose mother was brutally raped when young. I make sure she goes to school etc. I love her dearly and simply want to see her getting a chance in life. On my last few trips I have introduced this girl to swimming (on the beach and in the pool)and she adores it. However I must confess I am not totally comfortable being left alone with her and, as her mother works, this reduces the time I can spend with the kid. It seems unfair quote:
Originally posted by ncompasstraining
Hi everyone
I just wanted to share some of my experiences with you to contribute to this discussion:
- I periodically work in the Gambia, and I sometimes travel alone, but mostly with colleagues who are all female too. We do experience strong advances from men in the tourist areas, which of course, we ignore.
- Lately, because my colleagues and I have been working in one village and got to know many people in the community, we are visited by mothers who are bringing their sons to see us, and we are being asked to marry them. I received a letter from one lady just yesterday, reiterating this request - her son is only 17 and I am 33!!
- On my last visit, I witnessed a young waitress being physically assaulted by an old British man. This man lives in the Gambia, and frequents the particular restaurant with his friends. I was furious, and not for the first time in Gambia, embarrassed to be British because of his conduct. I waited for a few seconds for someone to come to her assistance, but none of her colleagues did.
- On my colleagues last visit, she got chatting to an 11 year old boy. When my colleague got in the taxi to leave, the boys mum came out and put him in the taxi with my friend, and asked her to take him out for the day.
- When I was last in the airport in Gambia, there were three spanish men with a Gambian girl who was approximately 12-13yrs old. They were in the departure area and obviously taking her with them. I thought it was odd, and perhaps nosily, I kept watching them as she looked very sad and disorientated. Then one of the men reached over to her and pulled his face towards him and kissed her. I was appalled, and immediately reported it to the airport, out of concern for the girl's welfare. But no-one came to speak to the girl.
I have a number of points arising from this:
- Within any education in the Gambia, for all ages, the important thing is that people are empowered to claim their rights as human beings. Toubab's are not superior to Gambian people, and in fairness I feel it is only a small minority who think this way, but they must not be allowed to act or think they are either. If they are continually allowed to act in a superior way, they will continue to act in that way. What can be done to encourage people to stand up to them?
- Secondly, health and safety, and welfare of children is of real concern. Those tourists who visit the Gambia for more sordid reasons, really can have easy pickings of children if parents are so willing to let their children go off with Toubab's - and there perhaps should be a message to parents that just because a person is white does not mean they can be trusted. This also goes for the police in the Gambia, who are often turning a blind eye.
Sending your kids off with a Toubab (or any other stranger for that matter) does not mean a life of prosperity and happiness, it could be quite the opposite.
- Thirdly, there was a point earlier on this discussion board about prostitution and the links with poverty. I agree that this is a proven link, but prostitution comes in many forms. It is not just an activity of 'the poor', in fact there are many affluent men and women who are 'kept' in material luxury in exchange for relationships.
Prostitution CAN.....and please I say CAN.....also be a choice. My cousin is a 'high class' prostitute in Jersey, she is also a qualified accountant, but prefers prostitution as it gives her a better standard of living. For her, it is an easy way of making quick and a lot of money.
The difference for my cousin is that she had many choices of career paths, but for some of the Gambian men and women engaging in prostitution, their choices are limited. It is understandable that the promise of material goods or money can be alluring, even addictive, and this is a difficult cycle to break.
My experience of the Gambia is that it is a beautiful and rightfully proud country, but often I find myself wishing that people who make a stand to claim their rights and protect each others welfare. However, I know how difficult it is when a country is not a true democracy, when people fear reprisal for protest, or contacting the media, etc.
What can those of us who work in the Gambia do to help citizens affect any change, without compromising dignity?
Sorry if this is a mish-mash of thoughts....I was on a roll!
Any ideas appreciated, and I hope this posting hasn't offended anyone!
Sincerely
Suryiah
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anna
Netherlands
730 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2006 : 00:21:10
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Suryiah, i am impressed by your observations and i have to say that, yes - this is the way it is. Did you read Kondorong's posting under the heading 'Who is to blame, Yaya or the society'? Very interesting also, and, although he approaches Gambian society from another starting point, i think he comes to the same conclusion: people should take a stand and claim their rights and protect each others' welfare. Especially when children are concerned, each individual and each parent should face responsibility.
Sadly, he also states that the famous Gambian smiles are superficial and that people are desperate. I am afraid he is right, and my heart sinks when i read it. |
When an old African dies, it is as if a whole library has burnt down.
Amadou Hampate Ba (Mali) |
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