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jambo
3300 Posts |
 Posted - 07 Jun 2007 : 15:36:12
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quote:
But in practice the operation is a neat cut of a piece of the skin or a small flesh from a very remote area, which is not harmful when its efficient and properly cut .
NOT HARMFUL, IF DONE PROPERLY, think about those words, IT IS NOT NEEDED, and is not done properly, that is why there are issues with it.
DETTERENT TO SEX, HARMFUL, WOMEN, HE WANTS MEDICAL PROOF, THERE IS A TON OF IT OUT THERE, WHERE DO YOU SUGGEST WE SEND IT |
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Alhassan
Sweden
813 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2007 : 15:51:35
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jAMBO,
Properly or not it is harmful. There is no religious prof that it is ok. I think it is high time we stand up for the women. We must be able to defend them at all cost. |
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mansasulu
997 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2007 : 17:11:35
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| Wow...call it trying to legislate via the web when we cannot simply fulfill a civil duty like removing a tyrant from power via the ballot. I have said it here, over and over again that if anyone can produce a single hadith or better still verse of the quran condemning female circumcision, I will not only unequivocally renounce my support of female circumcision but join the efforts to ban it worldwide. |
"...Verily, in the remembrance of Allâh do hearts find rest..." Sura Al-Rad (Chapter 13, Verse 28)
...Gambian by birth, Muslim by the grace of Allah... |
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anna
Netherlands
730 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2007 : 19:41:46
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Mansasula, one of your brothers already told us that FGM is NOT Islamic - so we could go on and on and try to find Quran verses against it, never succeeding because there are none. Why are you not reacting to my concrete answer to your question why male circumcision is not opposed in the same way? Why come up with a strange comparison instead, what does 'not being able to remove the tyrant' haveto do with anything?? Your president was chosen democratically, though most voters probably didn't know there was an opposition or, if they knew, they probably had no clue about the opposition's programmes. This is Gambian politics, and i'd rather stay out of that - being a European and so it is not my business.
Kobo, are you really living in 21st century Australia? Are there still men living in the Western world who think women have to be 'disciplined'? Double standards, right? Men can enjoy all the sex they can have, women have to be 'deterred' to enjoy sex before marriage. That was a nice story you gave us about this 'neat cut', but let me tell you: also in the Gambia there are women who are 'completely sown up'. It might depend on the village circumcisor.....
Your postings make me feel you must hate women. |
When an old African dies, it is as if a whole library has burnt down.
Amadou Hampate Ba (Mali) |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2007 : 21:09:04
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Anna the more I read your postings the more I love you as a sister! 
The reality is often the cut is a mess and often there is infection. Then when these girls go on to give birth because of scar tissue they dont stretch and have BIG problems with delivery.
I am sure if the blokes had to give birth they would have outlawed FGM a long time ago!
I dont have any statistics for deaths of babies at birth, but i wonder if FGM adds to that problem? |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2007 : 21:14:21
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As a feminist my view is women have the same right as men to sexual fulfillment. In other words anything that stops women getting pleasure is a bad thing. I think FGM comes under that category.
Sex is wonderful. It is a fantastic pleasure, and sometimes almost makes me think there is a god! LOL!
Anything that makes sex painful or a duty or anything other than a loving pleasure is BAD! |
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mansasulu
997 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2007 : 22:29:52
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quote:
Originally posted by anna
Mansasula, one of your brothers already told us that FGM is NOT Islamic - so we could go on and on and try to find Quran verses against it, never succeeding because there are none. Why are you not reacting to my concrete answer to your question why male circumcision is not opposed in the same way? Why come up with a strange comparison instead, what does 'not being able to remove the tyrant' haveto do with anything?? Your president was chosen democratically, though most voters probably didn't know there was an opposition or, if they knew, they probably had no clue about the opposition's programmes. This is Gambian politics, and i'd rather stay out of that - being a European and so it is not my business.
Anna, in as much as the issue of the President is Gambian politics, so is female circumcision. It is none of you business so quit poking your western nose in complex African culture and heritage. As far as I know it is not unislamic as there is no islamic evidence to proof otherwise. Just because some ignorant bloke in here says it is unislamic does not make it so. |
"...Verily, in the remembrance of Allâh do hearts find rest..." Sura Al-Rad (Chapter 13, Verse 28)
...Gambian by birth, Muslim by the grace of Allah... |
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anna
Netherlands
730 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2007 : 22:53:03
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I see - still no answer, but that is an answer in itself. Perhaps you will call everyone who opposes you 'ignorant'.
But i am a female and 'everything that is done unto my sisters, is done unto me' (quoting Jesus, which i do hesitantly).
All the best, discussion closed because useless. |
When an old African dies, it is as if a whole library has burnt down.
Amadou Hampate Ba (Mali) |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2007 : 23:02:13
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Anna I feel sympathtic with all my african sisters that may have to endure FGM.
According to Mansasuls he wants us to keep our nose out ! Well I am sorry, but aslong as women are suffering I wont lie down and say nothing, |
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Karamba
United Kingdom
3820 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2007 : 23:27:28
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Female Genital Mutilation (FGM) is not a peculiar African matter. Scores of Western Women are preferring very painful Genital Upgrading (as in restructuring of the genitals) for what they take as way of enhancing their sexual performance and pleasure. Some pay for costly piercing on the genitals. Others go for the high risk of genital transformation. To an extent, individual sexuality and sexual behaviour in some situations defy religious restrictions. If grown up women (Muslims, or non Muslims) choose to tamper with their genitals for personal exploration, they are happy to do it in the deepest darkness of privacy. While there are some more seriously unholy acts by individuals what is the fuss about Female Genital Mutilation -FMG? Is it imposed or optional? All is certain that uncircumcised women are married to men whose tradition prefers circumcision. They bear children with no queries about being circumcised or not. Righteousness is one area of difference between people. It may pay much better if stuff like circumcision rest in the deep chambers of privacy. There are scores of uncircumcised men who feel happy who they are. These are private matters despite all religious bearings. Those who choose to discuss issues like this are still free to do so but perhaps better in more general context. |
Karamba |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2007 : 23:40:59
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Karamba
A minute proportion of women may freely decide to do something to alter their genitals. MOST women wouldnt do that unless under pressure.
I have no problem with women or men of an certain age (18 plus) deciding about this for themselves. Before that it is abuse. |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2007 : 12:01:21
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quote:
Originally posted by jambo
quote:
But in practice the operation is a neat cut of a piece of the skin or a small flesh from a very remote area, which is not harmful when its efficient and properly cut .
NOT HARMFUL, IF DONE PROPERLY, think about those words, IT IS NOT NEEDED, and is not done properly, that is why there are issues with it.
DETTERENT TO SEX, HARMFUL, WOMEN, HE WANTS MEDICAL PROOF, THERE IS A TON OF IT OUT THERE, WHERE DO YOU SUGGEST WE SEND IT
Dr Jack Faal is a renown Gaenachologist and professional for MEDICAL PROOF |
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sab
United Kingdom
912 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2007 : 12:31:23
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He might be a gynaecologist etc., and I have worked with many, but he spoke about bone and not the sensory & nervous tissue. I would be very reluctant to let him in my knickers!
He is not separating practices of culture from medical knowledge when speaking.
I have also seen some appalling treatment carried out in the maternity wards of our UK hospitals by senior gynaecoligist, so I would say dont rely on the grand title.
sab |
The world would be a poorer place if it was peopled by children whose parents risked nothing in the cause of social justice, for fear of personal loss. (Joe Slovo - African revolutionary) |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2007 : 12:37:01
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quote:
Originally posted by sab
He might be a gynaecologist etc., and I have worked with many, but he spoke about bone and not the sensory & nervous tissue. I would be very reluctant to let him in my knickers!
He is not separating practices of culture from medical knowledge when speaking.
I have also seen some appalling treatment carried out in the maternity wards of our UK hospitals by senior gynaecoligist, so I would say dont rely on the grand title.
sab
Thanks Sab for the rejoiner! However you are also competent to expound further about the RISKS GEnerally and MEDICALLY. If I could re-called you presented a very good write-up on circumcision on archives.
The social norms were acceptable and perhaps help many women to overcome temptation to engaged in sex and promiscuity before marriage.
Thanks. |
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sab
United Kingdom
912 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2007 : 12:52:20
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Yes there have been some very detailed educational debates in the past...Keep up the good work...
Have good weekend...
sab |
The world would be a poorer place if it was peopled by children whose parents risked nothing in the cause of social justice, for fear of personal loss. (Joe Slovo - African revolutionary) |
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