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Lily
United Kingdom
422 Posts |
 Posted - 25 Jan 2007 : 20:36:45
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Of course it's a good idea to have observers and having observers will, one hopes, have some effect.
But the idea that having observers will make the elections free and fair is, I fear, a little on the naive side. It just depends what, exactly, the mandate of the observers actually is....
Still - it is good to hope and I sincerely hope they observe carefully ........ (before, during and after....)
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2007 : 20:43:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Sister Omega
Kons just imagine if there were no obeservers at the elections.I can already hear the opposition crying they're unfair. I think the APRC is showing Political maturity by granting AU Observers into Gambia to observer the NA elections. The AU is quite capable of observing the election process to monitor to see whether they are free and fair despite what sceptics may believe.
I still think this is a positive step in the right direction and its good to see AU taking an active step to support the inclusion of all parties and Indpendents standing for election and to oversee that Gambia voters are denied their voting rights. Barking at the moon can't change nothing. But actions speak louder than words.
peace
Sister Omega
These so called observers are in fact the same public officials who helped in rigging elections in their countries and graduate into diplomats at the AU in Addis Ababa. They can run but cannot hide.
They must keep their houses in order before trying their hands in other people's back yards. I am not sure what some of these presidents can tell Gambians about democracy if they themselves committed treasonable offences of taking power by force in their countries and even tried to change their national constitutions to entrench one-man perpetual rule.
ONLY ONE MAN HAS THE MORALE RIGHT TO SPEAK OF GOOD GOVERNANCE IN AFRICA TODAY AND THAT MAN IS NELSON MANDELA.
I don’t mind civic institutions as observers but not public officials who know only one thing: help the incumbent continue as "President for Life". The standard report has always been the same no matter which country. This is a typical conclusion in all reports. The words may not be exact but the style is the same.
" While we agree that there were few irregularities, we do not think, its influence has any grave effect on the out come of the results"
Public service does not improve. Colonial style correspondences are still being used in the Gambia after 45 years of Independence. Some these include:
"Your Obedient and Humble Servant" (usually at the conclusion of a letter.
WITH 53 COUNTRIES IN AFRICA AND A TOTAL OF MORE THAN 300 TO 500 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS SINCE INDEPENDENCE CAME TO THE CONTINENT, HOW MANY LEFT OFFICE THROUGH THE BALLOT BOX. THAT’S YOUR ASSIGNMENT FOR THE WEEKEND.
It has nothing to do with democracy but deep-rooted traditions that rulers rule for life. There have never been ex-kings throughout the history of the Black continent. One must be dead either naturally or through revolt before one can be king. Hence the Mandingo saying:
NING DOE FAH MANG FA, DO FAH BUKA MANYO SOTO. ( Somebody's father must die before sombody else's father can get a second wife). |
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2007 : 20:43:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Sister Omega
Kons just imagine if there were no obeservers at the elections.I can already hear the opposition crying they're unfair. I think the APRC is showing Political maturity by granting AU Observers into Gambia to observer the NA elections. The AU is quite capable of observing the election process to monitor to see whether they are free and fair despite what sceptics may believe.
I still think this is a positive step in the right direction and its good to see AU taking an active step to support the inclusion of all parties and Indpendents standing for election and to oversee that Gambia voters are denied their voting rights. Barking at the moon can't change nothing. But actions speak louder than words.
peace
Sister Omega
These so called observers are in fact the same public officials who helped in rigging elections in their countries and graduate into diplomats at the AU in Addis Ababa. They can run but cannot hide.
They must keep their houses in order before trying their hands in other people's back yards. I am not sure what some of these presidents can tell Gambians about democracy if they themselves committed treasonable offences of taking power by force in their countries and even tried to change their national constitutions to entrench one-man perpetual rule.
ONLY ONE MAN HAS THE MORALE RIGHT TO SPEAK OF GOOD GOVERNANCE IN AFRICA TODAY AND THAT MAN IS NELSON MANDELA.
I don’t mind civic institutions as observers but not public officials who know only one thing: help the incumbent continue as "President for Life". The standard report has always been the same no matter which country. This is a typical conclusion in all reports. The words may not be exact but the style is the same.
" While we agree that there were few irregularities, we do not think, its influence has any grave effect on the out come of the results"
Public service does not improve. Colonial style correspondences are still being used in the Gambia after 45 years of Independence. Some these include:
"Your Obedient and Humble Servant" (usually at the conclusion of a letter.
WITH 53 COUNTRIES IN AFRICA AND A TOTAL OF MORE THAN 300 TO 500 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS SINCE INDEPENDENCE CAME TO THE CONTINENT, HOW MANY LEFT OFFICE THROUGH THE BALLOT BOX. THAT’S YOUR ASSIGNMENT FOR THE WEEKEND.
It has nothing to do with democracy but deep-rooted traditions that rulers rule for life. There have never been ex-kings throughout the history of the Black continent. One must be dead either naturally or through revolt before one can be king. Hence the Mandingo saying:
NING DOE FAH MANG FA, DO FAH BUKA MANYO SOTO. ( Somebody's father must die before sombody else's father can get a second wife). |
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Sister Omega
United Kingdom
2085 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2007 : 21:02:58
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Africa isn't Europe therefore it will have to evolve a system which is best for its own interests. It is not or never will be a carbon copy of its Neocolonial masters.
Peace
Sister Omega |
Peace
Sister Omega |
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Sister Omega
United Kingdom
2085 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2007 : 21:02:58
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Africa isn't Europe therefore it will have to evolve a system which is best for its own interests. It is not or never will be a carbon copy of its Neocolonial masters.
Peace
Sister Omega |
Peace
Sister Omega |
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Karamba
United Kingdom
3820 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2007 : 21:18:15
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Democracy is not a prescription handed by neocolonialist. It can be accepted as a product of evolving political system suitable for civilised politics. With all its defects, democracy is far better than corrupt African leaders seeking to be kings without people's mandate. There is no justification for a coup maker to consolidate such illegal operation like coup and turning around to blame the West. If democracy amounts to neocolonialism, I'd rather be ruled by neocolonialists than self-style dictatorship with brutal claws, plugging out human eyes and punching living human bellies. |
Karamba |
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Karamba
United Kingdom
3820 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2007 : 21:18:15
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Democracy is not a prescription handed by neocolonialist. It can be accepted as a product of evolving political system suitable for civilised politics. With all its defects, democracy is far better than corrupt African leaders seeking to be kings without people's mandate. There is no justification for a coup maker to consolidate such illegal operation like coup and turning around to blame the West. If democracy amounts to neocolonialism, I'd rather be ruled by neocolonialists than self-style dictatorship with brutal claws, plugging out human eyes and punching living human bellies. |
Karamba |
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2007 : 21:29:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Sister Omega
Africa isn't Europe therefore it will have to evolve a system which is best for its own interests. It is not or never will be a carbon copy of its Neocolonial masters.
Peace
Sister Omega
This is it. The arguments always end in some anti colonial sentiments. We must choose what we want. We must either join the world and have a standard of measurement or call it quits and move to Planet Jupiter and form our own civilization.
This inability to adapt in the name of egocentric "nationalism" has given many presidents the leverage to be "different" by advocating an African system, which sadly is still not defined by anyone. In fact it does not exist.
If it means anything, it means re- incarnating "presidents for Life"; rig elections and produced a few billionaires surrounded by a sea of desperate and hopeless citizens who could only dream of one thing: having a public official good enough to practice virtue if they so wish by dropping few coins in their dry and exfoliating hands. They in return must "worship" this official as though he was a medium in the "manna from heaven".
This very issue was raised at the Commonwealth workshop i once attended in Harare as to how we should measure standards in Africa. Do we measure ourselves in relation to other African countries or the rest of the world? Finally the workshop agreed that a universal standard is necessary if we have to be able to compete with the rest of civilization. An "African standard" will not be motivating enough to propel us into development. This is because around us, no one is showing the way yet.
Guinea Conakry is an example of what the continent represents: Take power by force, “change” military uniform to become a civilian and continue to “win” elections with no term limits; over stay peoples invitations; become too inefficient and lying on one’s dead bed; but yet refuse to go peacefully before killing some more innocent citizens who are only asking for a basic right to choose who leads them.
Its unfortunate, but African countries are only competing about which country exports the largest number of refugees and asylum seekers in the West. If that is what we want as an African standard, I beg to be excused.
We are not poor. We only are bad managers and at the heart of this tragedy, is the killer disease called patronage.
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2007 : 21:29:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Sister Omega
Africa isn't Europe therefore it will have to evolve a system which is best for its own interests. It is not or never will be a carbon copy of its Neocolonial masters.
Peace
Sister Omega
This is it. The arguments always end in some anti colonial sentiments. We must choose what we want. We must either join the world and have a standard of measurement or call it quits and move to Planet Jupiter and form our own civilization.
This inability to adapt in the name of egocentric "nationalism" has given many presidents the leverage to be "different" by advocating an African system, which sadly is still not defined by anyone. In fact it does not exist.
If it means anything, it means re- incarnating "presidents for Life"; rig elections and produced a few billionaires surrounded by a sea of desperate and hopeless citizens who could only dream of one thing: having a public official good enough to practice virtue if they so wish by dropping few coins in their dry and exfoliating hands. They in return must "worship" this official as though he was a medium in the "manna from heaven".
This very issue was raised at the Commonwealth workshop i once attended in Harare as to how we should measure standards in Africa. Do we measure ourselves in relation to other African countries or the rest of the world? Finally the workshop agreed that a universal standard is necessary if we have to be able to compete with the rest of civilization. An "African standard" will not be motivating enough to propel us into development. This is because around us, no one is showing the way yet.
Guinea Conakry is an example of what the continent represents: Take power by force, “change” military uniform to become a civilian and continue to “win” elections with no term limits; over stay peoples invitations; become too inefficient and lying on one’s dead bed; but yet refuse to go peacefully before killing some more innocent citizens who are only asking for a basic right to choose who leads them.
Its unfortunate, but African countries are only competing about which country exports the largest number of refugees and asylum seekers in the West. If that is what we want as an African standard, I beg to be excused.
We are not poor. We only are bad managers and at the heart of this tragedy, is the killer disease called patronage.
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Lily
United Kingdom
422 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2007 : 21:37:27
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| But with people like you - and sentiments like that - there is real hope for the future..... |
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Lily
United Kingdom
422 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2007 : 21:37:27
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| But with people like you - and sentiments like that - there is real hope for the future..... |
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2007 : 21:43:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Lily
But with people like you - and sentiments like that - there is real hope for the future.....
the future is now. Let no one fool you. There can only be a future if there is a today.
This kind of thinking makes one a dangerous person on the continent. They dont survive for 24 hours. They are "nipped in the bud" and become collateral damage or join the list of missing persons supposedly "on the run". |
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2007 : 21:43:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Lily
But with people like you - and sentiments like that - there is real hope for the future.....
the future is now. Let no one fool you. There can only be a future if there is a today.
This kind of thinking makes one a dangerous person on the continent. They dont survive for 24 hours. They are "nipped in the bud" and become collateral damage or join the list of missing persons supposedly "on the run". |
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Sister Omega
United Kingdom
2085 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2007 : 21:59:07
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Kons I disagree with your negativity about Africa. Africa is quite capable of evolving into a Union and evolving a sysytem which is suitable for its populace. Whether you agree or not the fact is that AU Observers are in Gambia already observing the elections. That's the reality and won't leave until they are over. As for bad managers are you presuming that the West are better managers of the world with the majority of people living under a dollar a day I don't think so. Africa traditionally had Kings for Life, and it seems so far that the majority of Gambians prefer to have a one party state as reflected by the elections no matter what spin is spun. Jammeh won by 67% of the vote, and no cyberspace crtics can reverse the result. I expect you'd be more comfortable having British observers overseaing the votes but if Bethnal Green elections were anything to go by they may allow the rigging. Oh let's not forget Florida and the rigged voting machines.
Let's just see what would happen if Africa stopped exporting its crops and raw materials to the West. Then we would see after a couple of years how valueable Africa really is. If Africa brought it's arms from elsewhere and got proper value for its diamonds, and started trading internally.
Africa's need to come up with solutions for Africa's problems others can assist but the ultimate responsibility is Africa's. Then Africa can stand up within the Global Community on its own two feet.
peace
Sister Omega |
Peace
Sister Omega |
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Sister Omega
United Kingdom
2085 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2007 : 21:59:07
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Kons I disagree with your negativity about Africa. Africa is quite capable of evolving into a Union and evolving a sysytem which is suitable for its populace. Whether you agree or not the fact is that AU Observers are in Gambia already observing the elections. That's the reality and won't leave until they are over. As for bad managers are you presuming that the West are better managers of the world with the majority of people living under a dollar a day I don't think so. Africa traditionally had Kings for Life, and it seems so far that the majority of Gambians prefer to have a one party state as reflected by the elections no matter what spin is spun. Jammeh won by 67% of the vote, and no cyberspace crtics can reverse the result. I expect you'd be more comfortable having British observers overseaing the votes but if Bethnal Green elections were anything to go by they may allow the rigging. Oh let's not forget Florida and the rigged voting machines.
Let's just see what would happen if Africa stopped exporting its crops and raw materials to the West. Then we would see after a couple of years how valueable Africa really is. If Africa brought it's arms from elsewhere and got proper value for its diamonds, and started trading internally.
Africa's need to come up with solutions for Africa's problems others can assist but the ultimate responsibility is Africa's. Then Africa can stand up within the Global Community on its own two feet.
peace
Sister Omega |
Peace
Sister Omega |
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