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Karamba
United Kingdom
3820 Posts |
 Posted - 17 Dec 2006 : 21:21:38
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Hell broke in Gambia over the weekends when President Yahya Jammeh asked for forgiveness. Who is the offender and who are the victims? Gambians may not know how much their president continues to offend them. The president on his part knows all crimes he committed against helpless citizens. Do you think that Gambians have offended president Jammeh or is it president Jammeh who continues to offend Gambians? To say we forgive means he is being licenced to continue his offensives. Do you have to forgive without your offender first confessing ?
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Karamba |
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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2006 : 21:37:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Karamba
Hell broke in Gambia over the weekends when President Yahya Jammeh asked for forgiveness. Who is the offender and who are the victims? Gambians may not know how much their president continues to offend them. The president on his part knows all crimes he committed against helpless citizens. Do you think that Gambians have offended president Jammeh or is it president Jammeh who continues to offend Gambians? To say we forgive means he is being licenced to continue his offensives. Do you have to forgive without your offender first confessing ?
why will he ask for foregiveness ? he should first admit his wrong doings and then asked for foregiveness. but to blindly tell people to foregive him ,that is wrong. he most answer to his crimes in court not using gambian nicety to escape justice.
let us see how the NA election goes.as a half fula i will not forget his crimes and certainly not easily foregive him. foregiveness comes from the heart .he most be a change man first which i doubt if he will be. |
Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
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Lily
United Kingdom
422 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2006 : 00:06:24
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I guess you could say - what a clever move.
If people forgive he will regard them kindly - if they don't speak out - surely it will be remembered. Yes, indeed, a clever move
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Karamba
United Kingdom
3820 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2006 : 01:05:44
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For anyone to says you forgive, that also means you subscribing that the president did offend the populace to start with. Is the president saying he offended? In a law court, we have hearing judgment and mitigation. Is the president high-jumping the process? |
Karamba |
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jambo
3300 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2006 : 11:39:54
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i agree forgive for what, let him say what he has done, then i can judge the forgiveness, you cannot ask forgiveness for something that has not happened
good move |
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dbaldeh
USA
934 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2006 : 17:58:04
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Guys, don't read anything meaningful from that forgiveness speech. We all know asking for forgiveness is a common statement in our local traditions. It does not mean anything anymore as people use it any time under any circumstance.
It is like saying am sorry in the U.S. Everybody says am sorry everytime when they don't mean it. The statement or sentence if you may call it, has become a street language.
I bet you Jammeh is using the statement in that context. He will never admit he has offended Gambians Ever. The man's ego will not let him bow down to anything and ask for forgiveness especially to a people and nation that he thinks God brought him to safe.
Sometimes you don't judge the man by his words but his actions. Watch what happens in the next few weeks or months. He will be doing more clean house and more heads will roll into the streets. There is no more credibility left in that man's gut. We can only judge him through his actions and so far history have him as one of the worst ever. It will be silly to take his speech seriously... |
Baldeh,
"Be the change you want to see in the world" Ghandi
Visit http://www.gainako.com for your daily news and politics |
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2006 : 18:21:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Karamba
For anyone to says you forgive, that also means you subscribing that the president did offend the populace to start with. Is the president saying he offended? In a law court, we have hearing judgment and mitigation. Is the president high-jumping the process?
I like your thoughts brother. Karamba is not a name but a titled meaning the learned in Mandinka. Its two words KARANG BAA.
My only thought is the mandinka saying: IBUKA KERENG SANG TUNG KONO or like the wollofs say: KEN DU JENDA JAAN SI PAKH.
Let him come clean and tell us what he did wrong and then we can see if he is a good material to be forgiven.
I also hope its not Stalin style who used to invite his close friend to nights of drinking until they almost drown themselves. He would then tell them his intention to resign from power. In such a state some would speak freely while his body guards record their saying to know who has ambitions for power and later will be eliminated.
Is this another Kremlin style to wipe out would be aspirants or another PPP Mansakonko Congress to test the muddy waters. For those who believe that history repeats it self, i would add that it does so with a difference. The man is a good history student and must have read about people before him.
For me i hesitate to believe. Its nothing more than crocodile tears and my advise to those who have ambitions, to better " be as patient as a vulture" as he has advised all Gambians and that he has another 30 years to go.
A sudden u-turn can only mean one thing. That is, decision making process does not exist within the corridors of power. Its just a hit and miss affair where failure is a myth and an untried adventure. It also confirms a doctrine of theory X in management where managers believe everyone is lazy and must be forced to perfom with little or no concern for dignity or respect.
In any case both scenarios are dangerous paths to lead 1.5 million souls to the land of fear, anxiety and disaster before finally falling into a bottomless pit filled with venomenous vipers, heat and hopelessness.
"Hope is a force multiplier" Colin Powell.
Yanks is on record to say that they smeared super glue to the seat of the presidency and as such they are not going anywhere.
Nelson Mandela once said in a letter to the ANC through his daughter Zinzie that " only free people can negotiate .... My freedom cannot be seperated from yours..." when it was rumoured that Mandela was negotiating his freedom while in prison and sacrificing the rest of his party as DKJ did getting a pardon whilst his people did not.
YOU CAN ONLY FORGIVE GUILTY PEOPLE. HOWEVER ONLY FREE PEOPLE CAN FORGIVE. |
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Cornelius
Sweden
1051 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2006 : 18:56:20
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http://www.sufism.org/society/asma/
http://www.islamicity.com/Mosque/99names.htm
The Good news is that 90% of Sierra Leone's debts have been forgiven…….
An occasional good source of information about a member of the Commonwealth called GAMBIA – what they are saying about us:
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/cgi-bin/semaphoreserver
As Karamba explains so unequivocally, ” It is for people to gain a more progressive culture of socialisation and positive dialogue. Do not be loyal to Jammeh but to the ideals of a better society.”
This is always the problem – even in Sierra Leone, the former “Athens of West Africa” - the fierce ethnic & other extended African family loyalties, plus the “ You are either with us or against us mentality” – which keeps some good people quiet and others afraid to speak up even when their patriotism’s right to progress is trampled upon for fear of being called “ tribalist” etc.
AS “Bread Man” has also made clear and I embrace the views of both Karamba and Bread man who wrote:
“ Just make the comparison between 400years of colonial rule, 30years of sir Dawda and 12years of Jammeh. If you are realistic you will see that your critisms has no justification. Jammeh is not a magician but a hard worker with visions for development. He just won the election by over 60%. If you think that 60% of the Gambians living in The Gambia are sleeping thats why they voted for him, then you really need a reality check. We have seen what his government is doing and that fits us Gambian living in The Gambia. So please be objective in your critisms.” Going for what Serenata suggests: that reasonable something between, that mean, that meden agan that will never dry up, so that the ***** in the well that hasn’t dried up won’t drown even if the cup runneth over…. Moderation even in criticism and I also did post this link before ( it is our right to be able to talk a lot of nonsense and even
to post links 4U2
ignore:
http://www.drsoroush.com/English/News_Archive/E-NWS-20061022-SharifUniversity.html
The society that is evolving is hopefully one of greater tolerance, economic and social justice, with accommodation: a place and room for forgiveness in such a society. That the president as role-model asks forgiveness of his people is a good word and deed of the mouth, in the direction of qibla…. provided he sincerely makes amends - That’s what I think. I wish that I could ask Saine Jain his opinion about this.
I’m underlining the important words. You can skip the rest :
About the sunny Gambia, the way that not only the opposition paints the picture you’d think that Gambians are living in a climate of fear. Here’s some theory and we can measure the Gambian reality against this:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/reith2004/
Doesn’t the president have the Executive prerogative to grant some guilty parties a presidential pardon?
Obviously he does not exercise that power over his own alleged misdemeanour(s).
Karamba, the “Lord’s prayer” includes this:
“and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us; and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.” – which your icon John F Kennedy – as Catholic as can be - must have said regularly…..
You want the president Jammeh to confess – to what? ( I know he’s not a Roman Catholic)
You want him to make a speech which begins ( after authu bilahi mina shaitan ni-rajim, and the obligatory Bismillah; “ My dear people of the Gambia, please forgive me because I have sinned against you. These are my sins that I confess to” etc?
And if the people say “ NO! We do not forgive you!” ?
You can charge him – even to court – with certain offences……
Such should not happen to president Jammeh , because I would be among those offended - it happened to Yitzhak Rabin and lets pray that after that unsuccessful diabolical attempt, that it does not happen to Ismail Haniyeh…….it did not lead to civil war among Israelis but in the “territories” everything is possible.
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&rls=GGLJ%2CGGLJ%3A2006-51%2CGGLJ%3Aen&q=Ismail+Haniyeh&btnG=Search&meta=
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Every English and old colonial schoolboy knows this speech – Brutus the patriot gives the “et tu Brute?” most unkindest cut of all - and then apologises to the plebs, and before Mark Antony speaks they have shouted in unison that none of them has Brutus offended…… like it was good riddance to Caesarism…..
http://www.online-literature.com/shakespeare/julius_caesar/10/
Is there anything like the "unconditional forgiveness" that most people will pray and plead for before being sentenced to "eternal damnation" - unconditional forgiveness Karamba, of the type that Jesus is reported to have requested when he allegedly said, " Father, forgive them ( Romans) for they know not what they do / are doing"
I know, I know how difficult it would be for you to forgive e.g. Saddam if you were a relative of one of the survivors...... and although God’s Justice cannot cheat anybody - the 2nd in Shia usul-al-deen is ADL , the JUSTICE of the ALMIGHTY - no one can escape that. All we can pray for is His mercy.....yes, you too
Something to learn
in Iran:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usool-ad-Deen
Man does not live by bread alone BreadMan, but I’m off to the kitchen , to secure my stomach’s immediate future satisfaction……before I give some attention to Santanfara’s Biblical enquiries…and I am no rabbi Cornelius……but a little light is shining bright…..
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Edited by - Cornelius on 18 Dec 2006 18:57:27 |
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Cornelius
Sweden
1051 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2006 : 19:44:32
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It’s all so vague. Not all of us have read or heard the forgiveness speech….
What are the specific charges?
Sometimes, it is enough to say I’m sorry ( Desmond Tutu says that “God loves your enemies” ) but I think that some requests for understanding and forgiveness should be accompanied with the putting of the money where the mouth is, i.e. indemnity or compensation......
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Edited by - Cornelius on 18 Dec 2006 19:46:59 |
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Cornelius
Sweden
1051 Posts |
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Karamba
United Kingdom
3820 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2006 : 21:17:27
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Quite frankly, President Jammeh stayed 13 years insulting Gambians. This one is the BIGGEST INSULT to those who care to think. It is all wishful thinking whatever Jammeh relayed in that statement. His biggest gift to Gambia and Gambians is to step out and allow FREE GAMBIA where this FEAR he cultivated on our safe soil will no longer be our experience. The vane use of the name of God is something the man has to desist from. The other soothing message is one to the youth of Gambia, the most offended.
BUT, BUT, BUT WAIT A MINUTE: DID JAMMEH REALLY MEAN WHAT THE NOISE AROUND SUGGESTS? No !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The word was mentioned casually with no emphasis. It referred specifically to what transpired IN THE ELECTION PERIOD. Nothing about wrongs committed in last hard 13 years when the mosquito soldier pricked the blood stream of Gambians, to live on us and let us die in pain and fear.
After all, I rather reason with Cornelius that the whole fuss is an over-exageration. The man did not mean to forgive and be forgiven, period. |
Karamba |
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2006 : 22:47:10
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I read the speech but honestly, it should not be singled out as a headline. He only said about the election campaign and that now its over we should rally together.
Well the headline is a calculated political stategy to "cleanse" itself of hate and win admirers. Certainly its not a fiveness speech. The main theme of the speech is not based on reconciliation or forgiveness.
Therefore those who think the man is giving up power are only day dreaming. As adviced, they should " be as patient as a vulture". |
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