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dbaldeh
USA
934 Posts |
 Posted - 22 Aug 2006 : 19:45:19
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Politics of personality always breed tribal sentiments. From the get go, when Daffeh now Nyarikangbanna went on a rampage against Halifa I intervened to try to stop the politics of personality. I knew for sure Daffeh and many supporters of the UDP are only tied to the party because of tribal lines. Not a single one of them will explain programs of the UDP.
On the contrary, those of us who embraced the NADD idea dwell on their programs that the party advocates. We are not tied to any personality. We only defend Halifa because he has the integrity and leadership quality that can safe our country.
So the tribal line is very uncomfortable for many of us, but deep inside many of us we know what the facts are on the ground. Until we start debating those facts openly, we are not ready for genuine political dialogue.
I am willing and ready to confront anyone on the issue of tribal sentiments. It is healthy for us to debate it no matter how unconfortable they are. Here are some facts on tribal issues.
First Darboe came into politics because the majority tribe in the Gambia (Mandinka) long time party the NCP was banned. Darboe has never express interest in politics. His Demeanor up to now shows his lack of interest in politics.
Second, Hamat Bah came into politics because he thinks my tribe Fulas will rally behind him so he can gain access into politics and find his easy way abroad. His name has never been heard in Gambian politics. The small percentage of votes he got was because of his tribal affilliation.
Third, Assan Musa Camara broke up from the PPP and form his own party because he expected my tribe Fulas to back him, thus the "JAWARA GIPOH" slogan.
Fourth, the numerous tribal fights between what you called the Banjul Mafia and the Teri Kafos of Alhagie yahya ceesay, B.B Darboe and others has a historic land mark in our political history. These are all evidence of tribal politics in the Gambia.
The good thing and the neutralizing factor in all these divisions is the Great work of our Banjul sisters who broke the tribal lines and started marrying across the board. Starting from Sir Dawda, Ousainou Darboe, Mathew Yahya Baldeh,Yahya Jammeh, and several other prominent Gambian politicians all married from another tribe. This is what broke the wall between our tribes and it is what is responsible for most of our tribal integration and peaceful coexistence.
The unfortunate underline fact is that tribalism is still alive and well in our society and national politics. We only supress it to gain recognition from the other side. The example given by Bronx about members like Feme Petters, Yahya Jallow, Syingle Nyassi are all meant to give the UDP party a sign of inclusiveness. The danger and the facts in that kind of party formation gets expose when the party supporters are not willing to embrace anyone but the so called majority party leader. This is a fact as UDP/NRP today and forever will never select Hamat Bah as the party flagbearer.
The likes of Daffeh have some very dangerous hidden political agendas. Your line of support smell tribalist in whatever form you put it. So long as you are willing to debate the candidate and not the programs you are exposing yourselves more and more to the Gambian people. As for Bronx no matter what colors you hide in, you have not given this forum a single substance for advancement of the Gambian people. You are equally quilty of politics of personality, which is a recipe for tribal monarchs.
Gambians will never allow politics of tribalism to take over our country. We should learn from our sister African countries the price of tribalism and nepotism. We should all do away with politics of personality and debate the issues. After all, we all suffer under the brutality of a dictorial regime. So the way forward is to say:
No to tribal candidates
No to parties without progressive programs
No to candidates who count on tribes for votes
No to politics of divide and rule
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Baldeh,
"Be the change you want to see in the world" Ghandi
Visit http://www.gainako.com for your daily news and politics |
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Aku_pickin
Christmas Island
162 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2006 : 21:17:12
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| Long time reader, first time poster. Well said dbaldeh. A party's agenda should be deciding factor on whether or not they receive your vote and not where it's leader is from. I've reviewed the different parties and so far NADD seems to be the only party with a solid agenda and vision of a democratic Gambia. |
Justice must be served as impunity brings more repression and corruption! |
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Nyarikangbanna
United Kingdom
1382 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2006 : 21:52:21
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Baldeh, you disgust me today by associating me with tribalism. I have clearly stated by reasons for my stand against Halifa. They are on record. I have also expressed abhorrence towards Lamin Waa Juwara and I am on record disapproving the treatment meted out to Late Ousainu NJai. You tell me now, where have you drawn the tribal connotation you talked about.
You have demeaned and insulted me for your own lack of better explanation of the things you stand for. If this is a ploy to silence me then you must wait until eternity for that will never happen. I will never be a talibeeh of that deceitful Ayatollah Sallah. If you hate me for that then that is your prerogative but please don’t insult me ok. I deserve an apology in the interest of natural justice.
You can't get rid of us.
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I do not oppose unity but I oppose dumb union. |
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blackerberry2004
69 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2006 : 22:12:34
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| I agree with Baldeh that there can be no logical reason for supporting Darboe's candidature over NADD's programs. I am incline to believe that the majority of UDP/NRP support is derived from tribal and other trivial sentiments. Darboe has no agenda for Gambia and yet he wants us to give him carte blanc as a leader. A leader who does not divulge his stance or flip flops is quite dangerous. NADD is the way forward and I can assure you that Darboe would never be forgiven for his selfish acts. History will judge him harshly. |
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2006 : 22:56:49
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quote:
Originally posted by blackerberry2004
I agree with Baldeh that there can be no logical reason for supporting Darboe's candidature over NADD's programs. I am incline to believe that the majority of UDP/NRP support is derived from tribal and other trivial sentiments. Darboe has no agenda for Gambia and yet he wants us to give him carte blanc as a leader. A leader who does not divulge his stance or flip flops is quite dangerous. NADD is the way forward and I can assure you that Darboe would never be forgiven for his selfish acts. History will judge him harshly.
I dont agree with you. In a democracy, individuals are free to make choice of parties. That choice should not and cannot be subjected to morale judgement. That is why PDOIS does not ask Gambians to vote for them. They lay their programmes and let the voters decide. To tell them to vote for them is to interfere with this notion of individuals being "masters of their destinies" as championed by the party for many years.
Certainly people like MC Cham, Femi Peters, Shyngle Nyassi would not make the list if UDP is based on tribal sentiments. I think you statement highlighted above is very unfortunate. Then again, i understand we are all human.
I am a NADD supporter and i want to put on record here that your statements is not reflected in NADD principles and the ideals of both Halifa and PDOIS. |
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dbaldeh
USA
934 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2006 : 23:40:21
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Brother Nyarikangbanna, from the bottom of my heart I apologize if you FEEL insulted. My intentions are never to insult any one for whatever reason. I see insults as a lack of respect for oneself.
However, I did not FEEL like I was insulting you either. What I did and every reader is a witness was to analyse your position and your line of argument. Your sentiments on the political front, though you might not mean to imply, are leaning more towards tribalism. May be you can take this to be a constructive feedback from your humble brother. Sometimes people are quilty by association or assertion, and in this case I am reluctant to accept your quilt but you so sound leaning towards that conclusion.
When you came out point blank and pointed out without Darboe no other Gambian politician can dislodge Jammeh, I cautioned you despite the fact that I was leaning more towards Darboe's selection as a flagbearer. You have never given any Gambian the benefit of the doubt despite the fact that there was a coalition.
From the get go brother Nyarikangbanna, your arguments have always been one sided and divisive. I have never read a reconciliatory contribution from you. Many contributors on this and several other forums have place Gambia above any personality, but you have been stock with politics of personality. May be all these is not your fault and I should understand that you may be blinded by your desire to see Darboe in power, and as a result you are held hostage by that ideology. If this is the case, again I sincerely apologize as I did not understand the emotional affiliation you have with UDP/Darboe.
Finally, brother Nyarikangbanna, I have stated before that I respect your intellectual capacity. I think you like anybody else can step up to the challenges our people are facing and bring about positive change. I think neither Darboe or Halifa can sacrifice more than you to play a historical part in effecting political change in the Gambia. It was on this bases that I thought you have gone over board in advocating for one man who is certainly from your tribe. Quilty by association? may be not. Accept my apology and let us hate the game and not the players.
Respect always  |
Baldeh,
"Be the change you want to see in the world" Ghandi
Visit http://www.gainako.com for your daily news and politics |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2006 : 01:36:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Nyarikangbanna
Baldeh, you disgust me today by associating me with tribalism. I have clearly stated by reasons for my stand against Halifa. They are on record. I have also expressed abhorrence towards Lamin Waa Juwara and I am on record disapproving the treatment meted out to Late Ousainu NJai. You tell me now, where have you drawn the tribal connotation you talked about.
You have demeaned and insulted me for your own lack of better explanation of the things you stand for. If this is a ploy to silence me then you must wait until eternity for that will never happen. I will never be a talibeeh of that deceitful Ayatollah Sallah. If you hate me for that then that is your prerogative but please don’t insult me ok. I deserve an apology in the interest of natural justice.
You can't get rid of us.
I don't think you deserve any apology in the interest of natural justice. Sorry to observe that you are contradicting your own self and having a taste of your own medicine. How about your open hatred, false allegations smear campaigns to create enemies (from late Alhaji Ousainou Njie families and sympathisers) and injustices meted out on this humble gentleman; Halifa. We are sorry that you have been exposed but can't get rid of you as a self-destruct person! Gambians are sick and tired of tribalism and irrational thoughts in politics. |
Edited by - kobo on 23 Aug 2006 01:40:02 |
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Biraago
Gambia
173 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2006 : 02:03:31
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Baldeh,
Your last posting is a testimony to the fact that you are a patriot seeking the unity of the Gambian people.
Just for the fact that the same fool that you have appologised to is still using the words such as: "abhorrence towards Lamin Waa Juwara" "and deceitful Ayatollah Sallah".
We are aware of the fact that many tribalists, be it that they call themselves Fula, Wolof, Mandingka, Jola etc... always accuse folk that they consider as traitors, meaning that they should have been suppoting their cause instead of allying themselves with their so-called enemies of a rival so-called tribe.
this has happen to OJ during the days of the PPP, Jabel Sallah and Jibou Jagne with the NCP, Kemeseng Jammeh with the UDP, Sidia Jatta with the PDOIS and now Lamin Waa Juwara in NADD.
This clearly show the devilish nature of this soul and the likes of his.
As Kobo stateed, you don't owe him any apology.
Furthermore, those elements who purport to support NADD need to be honest and consistent because it does not show in many postings that we have read over the past few weeks on this forum. Some of them have been sending many confusing statements that could be equated to an anti-NADD agenda.
It is time to be firm on the principles of truthfulness.
The time for a united front is now history. Every soul needs to gather as much support for the cause. No more flip flop.
NADD needs honest supporters and sympathisers at this critical juncture.
We need to embrace all Gambians in the name of peaceful and properous unity but it should be done with frankness and consistency.
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Nyarikangbanna
United Kingdom
1382 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2006 : 08:14:52
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Baldeh, I didn't know that being one sided amounts to tribalism. I guess this explain it all. You are frustrated with your own lack of better explanation for things you stand for. You are not gaining anything by going extreme. I thought you didn’t mean to be insulting but your allegation is absolutely absurd. You still have not made any connection. You support a party in which OJ is a heavyweight. Does that make you a tribalist too? I will always remain subjective as long as this stalemate persists because I have the facts and they are compelling. Just go back to my articles and see whether most of my predictions have not come to light. Your reference to my comments regarding Darboe is totally wrong. ALL I kept saying was statistically, he is the most sellable. I also said politically, that Juwara who claimed to be the force behind UDP is nothing without Darboe. I stand by all these and I will be vindicated. God willing.
Personality is part and parcel of politics. Let me take you back to the last US presidential election. John Kerry had dominated the opinion polls for almost three Quarter of the campaign because his programmes were fast selling. The republicans had to attack his personality [especially regarding his voting pattern in the senate] to derail him. They successfully portrayed him as a Walter mitty and that put the tap off. He then became starved of admirers and lost. If Nadd believes that personality is not important then let them nominate their programme and let see what will happen. This is all about Halifa mystifying himself.
I hope we will continue to respect each other despite our difference. Gambia belongs to nobody or tribe but Gambians.
You can’t get rid of us.
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I do not oppose unity but I oppose dumb union. |
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Biraago
Gambia
173 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2006 : 13:38:16
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Baldeh,
This is a testimony why Kobo told you to stand firm on your pertinent arguments.
Reactionaries shall always heep on you all sorts of abuse when they feel that you are weak or standing on soft sand.
Never ever for the rest of your life bow to reactionaries.
You have evidence of the reactionary nature of the evil soul and have articulated yourself very well, so please stand by your sincerity and justice to your own self.
This is the method reactionaries always use to weaken the young progressives.
Just analyse for yourself:
"I also said politically, that Juwara who claimed to be the force behind UDP is nothing without Darboe. I stand by all these and I will be vindicated. "
The second thing to consider is - Do you think this guy is God fearing when he uttered the above statement?
God willing.
Go to Allgambian.net and read his previous postings. Then you would know how evil he is and people like him.
I am telling you once again that HE IS NOT A UDP SUPPORTER but an imposter. We know him.
I am intervening only because, i don't want him to poison others by using their weakness.
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ganbi
United Kingdom
20 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2006 : 15:06:48
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These are the type of people who help in the breakup of NADD. This was a healthy debate until tribe is mentioned in it. These are the type of people who were saying that they will not support ones candidature to be NADD flag bearer because of his tribe even before NADD chooses its flag bearer. Here they come again accusing other people of being a tribalist just because they support one party against another. If you see yourself in someone else, you will be first to announce his next move. They are not ignorant in politics as evidence in their previous postings in various forums. So why do they seem to have problem with other people supporting other parties? What is democracy? Or are we advocating for dictatorship, just like Jammeh calling all other party supporters as unpatriotic?
dbaldeh you might want to refer to many of your previous postings on forums where you always seem to mention tribe in them each time you talking in favour of NADD just like Dalton1. If you are not tribalist you certainly seem to have a problem with one particular tribe. |
Edited by - ganbi on 23 Aug 2006 15:36:58 |
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mbay
Germany
1007 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2006 : 15:56:36
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| NADD ARE NOMORE N A D D BUT GLITCHING-HEADACH.(MY GOD WAHT A EXPRESSIOLESS COOLD WIND ARE THEY SPREADING)! AND WE ARE NOT A ADDLE-BRAINED OF SEEN IT: |
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blackerberry2004
69 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2006 : 17:36:53
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quote:
Originally posted by kondorong
quote:
Originally posted by blackerberry2004
I agree with Baldeh that there can be no logical reason for supporting Darboe's candidature over NADD's programs. I am incline to believe that the majority of UDP/NRP support is derived from tribal and other trivial sentiments. Darboe has no agenda for Gambia and yet he wants us to give him carte blanc as a leader. A leader who does not divulge his stance or flip flops is quite dangerous. NADD is the way forward and I can assure you that Darboe would never be forgiven for his selfish acts. History will judge him harshly.
I dont agree with you. In a democracy, individuals are free to make choice of parties. That choice should not and cannot be subjected to morale judgement. That is why PDOIS does not ask Gambians to vote for them. They lay their programmes and let the voters decide. To tell them to vote for them is to interfere with this notion of individuals being "masters of their destinies" as championed by the party for many years.
Certainly people like MC Cham, Femi Peters, Shyngle Nyassi would not make the list if UDP is based on tribal sentiments. I think you statement highlighted above is very unfortunate. Then again, i understand we are all human.
I am a NADD supporter and i want to put on record here that your statements is not reflected in NADD principles and the ideals of both Halifa and PDOIS.
Kondorong,
I do not understand your idea of this democracy stuff. You have to sell your programs to people then ask them to vote for you. It seems like you have never been a salesman. You tell prospective buyers about a product and then CLOSE the deal. Maybe that was PDOIS' problem; they have to ask people to vote for them instead of intellectualizing their programs and not closing the deal. As a NADD supporter, I expect NADD to sell its programs to the people and sell Halifa as a trustworthy individual who would stick to his words and would actually deliver. In Africa, people generally do not separate the programs from the personalities they are asked to entrust their votes. Character goes a long way. That is why companies look at credit and ciminal reports of prospective hires instead of only limiting themselves to resumes or CVs. So sell Nadd's program, sell Halifa, and CLOSE the deal.
Also, I am not saying all UDP supporters or even Darboe is tribalist. Darboe' s wife is OJ's niece, a non-Mandinka. However, it seems senseless to vote for someone who stands for nothing, indecisive, and does not want to show his hand. This is scary.
Also, your logic that UDP has non-Mandinkas, and therefore is not a tribalist group is faulty in that tribalists or racists for that matter, would use whoever they can use for their own selfish gain. For instance, racist slave traders used and befriended blacks to catch slaves. However, I should quick to point out that I do not believe that UDP in general or Darboe in particular is tribalist. All I am saying is that a lot of their supporters resort to tribal sentiments just like Jammeh has an overwhelming support from Jolas than from any other tribe. Mere coincidence? I guess not. Similarly, whites in America would never en masse vote for black president.
Kondorong, I respect you and Halifa, but both of you need to be realistic instead of being idealistic. In the real world, both the salesman and the product matters to consumers and that is why companies work hard to avoid reputation risks. Consumers would be skeptical of a known dishonest salesman reagrdless of the product.
Have a good day. |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2006 : 17:48:56
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| Yeah , I agree that NADD should add that final last touch to their campaign. To strongly urge people to go out in large numbers and vote for NADD.It should not hurt at all, after laying out your programmes clearly to the people, to cap with a strong urge for action (i.e. asking or telling people what they should do - to go out and vote for you and your party).You should just not walk away without doing that. |
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Bronx
USA
159 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2006 : 18:09:40
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Baldeh wrote:
"I knew for sure Daffeh and many supporters of the UDP are only tied to the party because of tribal lines."
I'm afraid you can't see the forest for the trees. Instead you grasp for the lowest common denominator to insult our intelligence. In Baldeh's world, we (UDP/NRP) supporters can't grasp issues confronting the Gambia. We have a low IQ and can't comprehend what is going on so our only solace is to join a dialect grouping we understand.Come again paco. Are you serious? Do you even know what dialect the person behind the pseudo bronx identify with? This is the kind of innuendo that broke up NADD and leave it with PDOIS/NDAM. You insult the intelligence of those you disagree with. You Call them tribalist and unpatriotic. What patriotic thing have you done for the Gambia that I didn't do?
You guys always inject tribe into this discussion. In essence telling us that the only way we can support anyone other than Halifa is that we are tribalist or *****s. Holy pulp pilot. Get over the person leading UDP and his tribe. He is Gambian and has a right to seek that presidency. His supporters have a right to vote for anyone they wish to vote for but chose him. Is that hard for you guys to understand. The right to association is a fundamental tenet of any democratic setup. If I don't agree with you, I have a right to disassociate with you and follow my own inkling. Your cause might be noblier to you, but so is mine to me. That could sum the quandarry we are discussing now.
Baldeh's whole argument is based on tagging Mandinkas as tribalist. This is not factual. The statistics don't support it. If they are so tribalist, why did Yahya Jammeh won in predominantly mandinka areas like Badibu, Jarra and Kiang. Here is a link to the 2001 presidetial election results:
http://iec.gm/artman/uploads/presidential_election_results_2001.pdf
We have seen this kind of innuendo and outright tribal comments made by Kebba Foon, the erstwhile chairman of STGDP (save the Gambia Democracy Project)on the gambiapost mailing list. It is save to say that baldeh and co are doing a good job looking out for the good of the Gambia by sowing the seeds of tribal discord. Thank God most of the Gambian people don't read their hateful rhetoric.
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taalibeh
Gambia
336 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2006 : 18:15:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Nyarikangbanna
Baldeh, you disgust me today by associating me with tribalism. I have clearly stated by reasons for my stand against Halifa. They are on record. I have also expressed abhorrence towards Lamin Waa Juwara and I am on record disapproving the treatment meted out to Late Ousainu NJai. You tell me now, where have you drawn the tribal connotation you talked about.
You have demeaned and insulted me for your own lack of better explanation of the things you stand for. If this is a ploy to silence me then you must wait until eternity for that will never happen. I will never be a talibeeh of that deceitful Ayatollah Sallah. If you hate me for that then that is your prerogative but please don’t insult me ok. I deserve an apology in the interest of natural justice.
You can't get rid of us.
Bro, please do not be disgushted. If you are accused, you either accept it or exonerate you self.
In all you speeches you throw things at Halifa that are baseless. Do as Halifa and keep you cool please. That is the opinion of Mr Baldeh just as you have your own opinion about other people. |
Taalibeh |
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