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Momodou
Denmark
11636 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2021 : 15:53:59
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GAMBIA-L Digest 98
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) New members by momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou) 2) Dr Ebrahim M. Samba contender for top WHO job by "Malanding S. Jaiteh" <msjaiteh@mtu.edu> 3) SV: RE:The Cabral Trophy Fiasco!! by "Momodou S Sidibeh" <momodou.sidibeh@stockholm.mail.telia.com> 4) SV: SV: Winnie Madikizela Mandela - part 1 by "Momodou S Sidibeh" <momodou.sidibeh@stockholm.mail.telia.com> 5) How do I retreive old postings by Nyang Njie <st0021@student-mail.jsu.edu> 6) New Member by "sillah conateh" <sillahconateh@hotmail.com> 7) THE GAMBIA REPORT ON HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS (AI INDEX: AFR 27/05 (fwd) by Ancha Bala-Gaye u <bala7500@mach1.wlu.ca> 8) The EL NINO and Africa by Saikou B M Njai <sbn13@cad.canterbury.ac.nz> 9) Re: The Cabral Trophy Fiasco!! by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) 10) Re: greetings by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) 11) Re: How do I retreive old postings by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) 12) Delist Member by "sillah conateh" <sillahconateh@hotmail.com> 13) Re: Introduction by "Fanneh" <fannehm@eng.und.ac.za> 14) Zone II - Trophy bound for Bamako - The end of the Road by "archibald.graham@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm> 15) SV: SV: Winnie Madikizela-Mandela - Part 2. by "Momodou S Sidibeh" <momodou.sidibeh@stockholm.mail.telia.com> 16) Re: greetings by habib <hghanim@erols.com> 17) Re: The Scorpions Second Debacle!! by BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa> 18) by "malang maane" <langjr@worldnet.att.net> 19) Re: The Cabral Trophy Fiasco!! by TOURAY 1 <TOURAY1@aol.com> 20) Seeking Hotel Info by Andy Lyons <alyons@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu> 21) Re: New members by Oijobe <Oijobe@aol.com> 22) Re: Zone II commentary from the arm chair: Semis and Finals and Signing Off by "pmj@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm> 23) Re: SV: RE:The Cabral Trophy Fiasco!! by Oijobe <Oijobe@aol.com> 24) Re: The Cabral Trophy Fiasco!! by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) 25) ECOWAS web site by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) 26) Human Rights Violations by Anna Secka <secka@cse.bridgeport.edu> 27) World Bank's Summer Employment Program by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) 28) Re: Human Rights Violations by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) 29) Re: The Scorpions Second Debacle!! by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) 30) Re: Is It In Our Nature? by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) 31) Re: The EL NINO and Africa by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) 32) Re: Winnie Madikizela-Mandela by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) 33) New members by "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu> 34) Hi by Marie Gillen <marie.gillen@swipnet.se> 35) Re: Hi by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) 36) Hi by Marie Gillen <marie.gillen@swipnet.se> 37) PLEASE SUBSCRIBE by "ebrima drameh" <njogou@hotmail.com> 38) Re: Is It In Our Nature? by MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA <m.gassama@swipnet.se> 39) Re: Is It In Our Nature? by YAIKAH MARIE JENG <yjeng@welchlink.welch.jhu.edu> 40) Re: Is It In Our Nature? by Ousman Gajigo <gajigoo@wabash.edu> 41) Re: Hi by Oijobe <Oijobe@aol.com> 42) Re: PLEASE SUBSCRIBE by Sarian Loum <Sarian.Loum@Corp.Sun.COM> 43) Re: Is It In Our Nature? by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) 44) Subcription by Anna Secka <secka@cse.bridgeport.edu> 45) Re: Subcription by Sarian Loum <Sarian.Loum@Corp.Sun.COM> 46) Fwd: mail to gambia-l by Jkrubally <Jkrubally@aol.com> 47) new member by Oijobe <Oijobe@aol.com> 48) SV: Is It In Our Nature? by "Momodou S Sidibeh" <momodou.sidibeh@stockholm.mail.telia.com> 49) New Members by momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou) 50) RE: Is It In Our Nature? by Sailey_Sey <SeyS@husson.edu> 51) Re: Is It In Our Nature? by momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou) 52) Re: Is It In Our Nature? The Crab or PHD Syndrome by "pmj@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm> 53) Re: New Members by "Malanding S. Jaiteh" <msjaiteh@mtu.edu> 54) Forwarded posting from Dr Sulayman Nyang by "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu> 55) Gambia educational Support Organization -final call for comments. by "Malanding S. Jaiteh" <msjaiteh@mtu.edu> 56) Gambia Educational Support Plan -final call for comments by "Malanding S. Jaiteh" <msjaiteh@mtu.edu> 57) new member by "latjor ndow" <latjor@hotmail.com> 58) Re: Is It In Our Nature? by "sillah conateh" <sillahconateh@hotmail.com> 59) Re: Is It In Our Nature? The Crab or PHD Syndrome by Mbk007 <Mbk007@aol.com> 60) Wolof Expressions Request by Mamadi Corra <MKCORRA@VM.SC.EDU> 61) RE: Wolof Expressions Request by Keretha Cash <kcash@RBVDNR.com> 62) Re: SV: Is It In Our Nature? by MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA <m.gassama@swipnet.se> 63) Re: introduction by "Malanding S. Jaiteh" <msjaiteh@mtu.edu> 64) Babading Sissoho by habib <hghanim@erols.com> 65) Re: Babading Sissoho by "Momodou Camara" <nijii@hotmail.com> 66) Re: Dr. Nyang's response on slavery by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) 67) Re: Subcription by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) 68) Re: Babading Sissoho by habib <hghanim@erols.com> 69) [Fwd: Fwd: Bill Gates:Free Money (fwd)] by "Pa-Mambuna O. Bojang" <paomar@iglou.com> 70) Re: Babading Sissoho by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) 71) introduction by lamin Jaiteh <ljaiteh@mail.wsu.edu> 72) introduction by lamin Jaiteh <ljaiteh@mail.wsu.edu> 73) Christmas Greetings by Fafa Sanyang <fsanyang@is2.dal.ca> 74) John =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bojang=B4s?= Meeting With The Gambian Community In Stockholm by MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA <m.gassama@swipnet.se> 75) Re: introduction by ABA LM <ABALM@aol.com> 76) New Member by momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou) 77) The case of Babanding Fatty - Compensation after seven years by momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou) 78) Re: introduction by Paul Jammeh <st2063@student-mail.jsu.edu> 79) Re: introduction by Saikou B M Njai <sbn13@cad.canterbury.ac.nz> 80) Virtual Flower Bouquet Delivery by Astrid Christensen-Tasong via the Virtual Florist <attatas@hotmail.com> 81) Re: Is It In Our Nature? The Crab or PHD Syndrome by Saikou B M Njai <sbn13@cad.canterbury.ac.nz> 82) =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_John_Bojang=B4s_Meeting_With_The_Gambian_?= by Paul <bgibba@interlog.com> 83) Article published in the Observer in 1995. Written BY Michael B.B.J. Gomez by nahak@juno.com (Michael J Gomez) 84) Re: Intorduction by Lamtoro <Lamtoro@aol.com> 85) Re: Gambian education a draw back in the 21st century by Lamtoro <Lamtoro@aol.com>
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Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 12:59:22 +0200 From: momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: New members Message-ID: <19971207115946.AAA35836@momodou> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Greetings, Omar Jobe, Lamin Jaiteh and Malang Maane have all been added to the list. Welcome to Gambia-l. You can send a brief introduction. Our address is: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
regards
Momodou Camara
******************************************************* http://home3.inet.tele.dk/mcamara
**"Start by doing what's necessary, then what's possible and suddenly you are doing the impossible"***
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Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 11:12:27 -0500 (EST) From: "Malanding S. Jaiteh" <msjaiteh@mtu.edu> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Dr Ebrahim M. Samba contender for top WHO job Message-ID: <199712071612.LAA06705@oak.ffr.mtu.edu>
Gambia's Ebrahim M. Samba, the regional director for Africa of the World Health Organisation, is among seven medical doctors vying for the post of Director-General of the world body.
details in PANA online http://www.africanews.org/west/gambia/stories/
Malanding Jaiteh
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Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 21:29:15 +0100 From: "Momodou S Sidibeh" <momodou.sidibeh@stockholm.mail.telia.com> To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: SV: RE:The Cabral Trophy Fiasco!! Message-ID: <199712072247.XAA11619@d1o2.telia.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Mr. Mbai, Your remarks cannot be improved upon. Maybe this was a wake-up call. Victory will not just come by because it is wished, never mind the excitement. Like everything else, we have to work hard and long to have a rightful claim to the trophy. Cheers to the armchair comentators.
Sidibeh, Stockholm/Kartong. ---------- > Från: Tamsir Mbai <mba4224@etbu.edu> > Till: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> > Ämne: RE:The Cabral Trophy Fiasco!! > Datum: den 7 december 1997 02:08 > > Guys, > I think it is very premature to suggest a reorganization of the > management and the coaching staff. Just a few days ago, these coaches were > doing such a wonderful job according to postings on this list. Why then > should we suggest a dismantling of the organization's hierarchy when we do > not even know what went wrong. Maybe Mali just had a better team. If i > remember very well, Archibald, who is based in The Gambia, was very > impressed with Mali from the get-go. I am making these statements because > having played for and with Alhagie Sillah, i know him to be one of the most > competent coaches in The Gambia. Let's give the brother a chance. Our team > wasn't assembled until a couple of months ago. > My recommendation is that we need some technical analysis of the job > done by the coaching staff, and the managerial skills of the management > staff before we judge their performance. For that matter, i ask Sam Thorpe > (former coach of Augustinians Football Club) who is a member of this list to > give us a breakdown of what happened and who, if anybody, is to blame for > our demise at the semi-finals. > To The Gambian international players who went back home to play, i > say, keep up the patriotism. Thank you infinitely for a wonderful job and > CONGRATULATIONS BIG TIME!!! We need more people like you guys. Better luck > next time!!! GO SCORPIONS!!!!!! > To masters Pa Musa and Archi, thanx for a job well done. Bravo > guys!!!!! > Enjoy the rest of the weekend everybody. Peace!!!!! > It's Tamsir. > > At 12:25 PM 12/6/97 -0500, you wrote: > >Bass wrote > > > >>In the end,it was not to be.With all the euphoria,excitement and > >>outpouring of nationalistic feelings,the Scorpions,as we all now > >>know, do not have that killer instinct required to win the > >>Cup.So,maybe a total overhaul or at least a reorganisation of the > >>entire soccer machinery in the land is in order.The present one has > >>done a good job but quite clearly not good enough! > > > >Yes, there definitely needs to be a total reorganization of the > >management and the coaching staff. We definitely have the > >talent to win these tournaments. Getting to semi-finals alone is not > >the objective. > > > >Ousman > > > > >
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Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 23:43:54 +0100 From: "Momodou S Sidibeh" <momodou.sidibeh@stockholm.mail.telia.com> To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: SV: SV: Winnie Madikizela Mandela - part 1 Message-ID: <199712072247.XAA11622@d1o2.telia.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Buharry, Come on, you do not need to apologise for these sorts of delays. Time is very scarce, and when we have any it turns out to be always too short. That is why I am often away from my keyboard. But thanks a lot, anyway. The last thing first. Sister Jabou calls Kartong a fishing village. Her native Gunjur being the biggest fishing station in the entire Kombo South, it was a pure case of the pot calling.....And now you too. You see, my last statement about Bass' alkaloship was an unfortunate one. All I wanted to say was just that Kartong has a true reputation; and that Serre-kunda, Latri-kunda, Dippa-kunda, Manjai-kunda, Dippa-kunda, Faaji-kunda (and the rest) are incapable of building a unique reputation because they are so geographically undistinguishable! Besides, Bass appoints himself your supreme alkali - in this age of democratisation. We definitely hope you will deal with that potential dictatorship first before agreeing on any sort of visa restrictions for the rest of us Gambians???
Well, back to Winnie Madikizela-Mandela...The points you raised are quite interesting, salient, and many. So I will do my best to be brief. 1. I also sympathise with Winnie Mandela, like everybody else. But I should not want to see her as head of the ANC, not only because I suspect she committed crimes but also because her politics could be more damaging to South Africa (and the rest of Africa consequently) than that which obtains now. Your highlighting WM's trials and triumphs is a wonderful thing. We must keep that flame alive. But we must also recognise that she, like most peolple in the leadership, ought to have kept a clear head and remained firm and resolute. I mean for instance, that the firm belief that Apartheid would come to an ignoble end one day, and therefore a day of reckoning must come, should have been a principle sufficient enough to guide her judgement in politics as well as in ethics.
2. You say that my claims of WMscomfortable life was perhaps subjective. Yes, perhaps. But the objective fact is that at least 75% of her constituency is just poor and needy of the basics of life. For many South Africans, lifebuoy soap was a luxury! I cannot agree with you that Africans are willing to make sacrifices in order that their leaders could live comfortably because these latter sacrifice a great deal for them. I should not like to interpret the automatic generosity of Africans in that way. This is in fact a moral question. My belief is that a leader's lifestyle should as reasonably as is possible reflect that of the majority of her people. Did not Great Madiba (Nelson Mandela) himself refuse to live in WM's villa? (I also remember Thomas Sankara, and Julius Nyerere). Besides, your formula could be a recipe for exploitation?
3. All over Africa, people rush with buckets of water when a neighbour's house is on fire. That WM's neighbours did not do so has only one interpretation. They wanted the house burnt down. They got sick and tired of the terror the so-called football team spread in the township. The ANC and its internal wing, the UDF were very powerful forces in the townships those days, so you just do not go about speaking ill of 'mama'. But you could watch her house turn to ashes. That is no crime against the comrades.
4. Yes, in many countries espionage is punishable by death or a life sentence; and yes, a fourteen-year old could be in this respect as damaging as a nonagenarian. On June 12, 1986,former prsident PW Botha sent the army into the township to enforce the state of emergency restrictions he announced the same evening. This was in an effort to prevent the planned massive uprising against the monster four days hence - june 16, Soweto day. Within days 24,000 people were arrested and detained, many of them children as young as ten, like my son Cherno. A great deal of them were beaten and tortured, sometimes with electric shock on their genitals. Torturing children demonstrates the legendary insularity of the South African police. As I wrote earlier, Stompie was fourteen and he was AFRAID. As a leader and as a trained social worker, it was WM's duty to comfort. Not to sanction killing him or hurting him in any way.
Hey, Buharry, its getting late and I got to go. There are three or four more points to answer. I will take those and then give my conclusion tomorrow. Sorry for keeping you hanging.
Best Wishes, and good night. Sidibeh, Stockholm/Kartong.
---------- > Från: MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA <m.gassama@swipnet.se> > Till: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> > Ämne: Re: SV: Winnie Madizela Mandela > Datum: den 6 december 1997 09:11 > > Hi Momodou! > I have to first of all apologise for not replying the day after your > post as promised but we have had extra courses at work and I was so > tired when I came home that I just couldn´t write anything. > Before going further, I have to acknowledge the perspective you brought > to the issue. I however still sympathise with Winnie like Bass, Jabou, > others on the list and millions of grassroots South Africans. > One of the points you raised was that Winnie had it much more > comfortable than millions of others. I think that comfort is very > subjective. You are right in the sense that at times she had comfortable > accomodation and many privileges compared to others. That is the > privilege enjoyed by leaders and their spouses because they are held in > high esteem because of the sacrifices they are making and people > willingly sacrifice to make it easier for them. There is another side > however. Millions of others were not forced to put their food on > sanitary buckets, see their husbands´ feet for the first time in 21 > years, never take their children to school because they would break a > banning order, be married for over two decades and never truly > experience married life, banished to a remote place where one knows > nobody, having to live with the psychological burden of knowing that one > is followed and watched daily etc. You see, Winnie had her comforts but > she sure did have her hell also. > Another point you raised was that Winnie´s house was torched and the > neighbours, mostly women, did nothing to help. There could be a > multitude of reasons for this. I do not know why. Maybe you can help > with an answer. Was it because they hated her? If so, why? > You also wrote: > > You all seem to have been saying that IT WAS OKEY FOR WINNIE TO SANCTION > > THE KILLING OF BLACK PEOPLE EVEN AS SHE WENT ABOUT THE MORE IMPORTANT > > BUSINESS OF LIBERATING THEM!!!!!! > > I don´t know what the rest of the people who sent posts on this thread > are saying, but I am not saying that Winnie should sanction the killing > of innocent people whilst liberating them. Are those who were killed > innocent? What threat did they pose to security of the others in the > struggle? A 14-year old is as dangerous in this respect as a 90-year > old. Espionage is a capital offense and can be punishable by death in > many countries. > It is important to realise at this point that Winnie has not been > convicted of killing anybody. There are accusations against her a lot of > which have been thrown out. The bodyguard who was paraded around the > world by Emma Nicholson had his evidence stamped as inconsistent. Winnie > took the stand late this week and refuted all claims against her even > though some witnesses had punched holes in her alibi. So it is claim and > counter claim at the moment. Until Winnie is convicted of murder, we > have to assume her innocence. > I posted the quotes to remind people of the contibutions Winnie made to > the struggle. She made some mistakes. That is true. So did everyone else > from the leaders to the ordinary street people. Afterall, they are all > human. Whilst everyone is praised for the contributions they made, > Winnie has been a scapegoat and her contributions have ben negated. > There are many reasons for this one looking like a conspiracy by the ANC > hierarchy to tanish her image because of her popularity and the threat > she poses to them. That is why I thought that it might be a good idea to > share a few quotes that that would bring her contributions into the > equation. > > Now, let´s get to the important part. You wrote in your follow-up: > > Bass, in case you do not know.... President Yahya Jammeh once held a public > > meeting in Kartong. He told his audience that while he was still a > > presidential guard, former President Jawara warned him for the youth of > > Kartong. He said the former president told him that these were very > > troublesome and radical. That is a reputation your 'alkaliyaa' will never > > match. It is regrettable that Buharry and others will have to swallow this > > with you. > > I have tried very hard to keep out of this topic but now I have to get > in. First of all, sorry to burst your bubble but where is Kartong? Has > anyone on the list ever heard of the place? > Secondly, you Gambians have to realise that Gambia cannot be Gambia > without Serrekunda. We are the New York of Gambia. You guys had better > be nice to us. Otherwise I would support Bass if he decides to impose > visa requirements for you guys and that would be terrible indeed. So, be > nice and have a good weekend. Thanks. > Buharry. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Momodou S Sidibeh wrote: > > > > Folks....Sisiter Jabou, Bass, Buhari, and others.... > > Just managed to go through so much mail this morning. I simply could not > > withstand the urge to answer to this issue even before managing to go > > through the rest of the mail. > > Before going any further, I must at once state that I would beg to DIFFER > > ALMOST COMPLETELY with the views expressed on Winnie Mandela. The issue is > > too important to be uncritically dealt with. > > > > While I have no intention to make an analyses of the situation I should > > opine that the final phase of the liberation struggle in South Africa - > > especially from the early 1980s onwards - was fraught with extreme > > difficulties both for the forces allied to bring down apartheid together > > with its capitalist power structures, and those that clamoured for ending > > apartheid but reforming the power structures to the extent that they could > > be made to respond to the needs of the majority of South Africans. Even > > before the Zulu nationalist movement made a serious bid for power amongst > > the black population, the ANC and AZAPO had already first cooperated, and > > then waged a brutal struggle against one another for supremacy. (This > > bitter struggle began in fact immediately after the visit to South Africa > > by U.S senator Edward Kennedy in (1986?)). The violent nature of this > > struggle - essentially between disciples of Steve Biko and followers of > > Nelson Mandela - was a devastating blow to the revolutionary movement and > > its supporters and sympathisers. It must be borne in mind however, that > > this phase of the struggle against apartheid, had for various reasons, > > received only very scant attention from the international press and media. > > The internecine violence became even more complicated with the emergence > > of Inkatha; neither was the eqaution simplified by the involvement of the > > South African security services in augmenting the violence. > > IT IS IN THIS CONTEXT THAT, I THINK, ONE MUST CRITICALLY LOOK AT THE ROLE > > OF WINNIE MANDELA. Of course she has suffered a lot and went through > > extreme trials. But so did millions of black South African women! Winnie, > > in fact, had it much more comfortable than millions and millions of others. > > Many things happened in Winnie Mandela's backyard. Without going into all > > that, I should simply invite you to think about this: During the period of > > the so-called "black on black" violence Winnie's house in Soweto was set > > alight and was completely burnt to ashes. The neighbours, most of them > > women, just stood by and watched, not offering so much as a cup of water to > > douse the flames. > > > > The history of the struggle against apartheid is probably the most > > important piece of human history (for black people, at any rate) depicting > > organised struggle against an awesomely powerful and systematically > > organised RACISM. My opinion is that we need to assess this history very > > seriously if we are to ensure the eternal freedom of the race. Here, > > simplifications, that appeal to sentiments eulogising heroines and heroes > > must be rejected. Remembering what we have gone through as a people, and > > being aware of the yoke we are carrying today, our search for heoines is > > completely understandable. The fact sadly, is simply that Winnie Mandela > > has not reached the level of leadership that we should wish her to have > > eclipsed. > > You all seem to have been saying that IT WAS OKEY FOR WINNIE TO SANCTION > > THE KILLING OF BLACK PEOPLE EVEN AS SHE WENT ABOUT THE MORE IMPORTANT > > BUSINESS OF LIBERATING THEM!!!!!! That does not make very pleasant > > reasoning to me. You can choose Winnie Mandela to rule over you in > > Dippa-Kunda. But for those of us in Kartong, we will forever praise her for > > her invaluable contribution, and denounce her for ultimately failing TO > > LEAD. AFTER ALL, ONE THING LEADERS MUST DO IS TO LEAD. > > > > Momodou Sidibeh /Stockholm, Kartong==== > > > > > Från: Gunjur@aol.com > > > Till: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List > > <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> > > > Ämne: Winnie Madizela Mandela > > > Datum: den 30 november 1997 16:54 > > > > > > Brother Bass,you wrote: > > > > > > Mr.Jallow, > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't think I could say it better myself!The Third Force,as Winnie > > calls > > > > > > them,with their racist friends around the world,esp.those of them in > > > > > > Britain, want to do everything that could help puncture Winnie's chances > > of > > > > > > becoming the future president of South Africa. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thabo Nbeki may or may not be the next president of South Africa, but > > sadly > > > > > > for her enemies,the Mother of the Nation would sooner or later become the > > > > > > president of South Africa;and when that happens, she would do exactly > > what > > > > > > the white establishment and its friends are so scared of,namely,the real > > > > > > dismantlement of all the white power structures without which the real > > > > > > enpowerment of Shaka's children would never materialise. > > > > > > > > > > > > Could the South African diamond giant,De Beers,for instance,ever imagine > > the > > > > > > day when 80 or 90% of its board members would be black men and women?! > > And > > > > > > what about the gold industry and the banks and how would most white > > families > > > > > > manage to clean up and feed themselves in a world in which they could no > > > > > > longer afford to pay black nannies and domestic helps to do that for > > > > > > them.These are the real stuffs that is scaring them to death,and who else > > > > > > could deliver that last blow to the remnants of apartheid than the very > > > > > > woman who has kept the liberation candle burning for twenty-seven eternal > > > > > > years. > > > > > > > > > > > > Winnie,we are waiting! Come and rule over us,its your turn now. > > > > > > YOU'VE SAID IT ALL! > > > > > > Jabou Joh. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Reagrds Basss! > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: pmj@commit.gm <gambia-l@commit.gm> > > > > > > To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List > > > > > > <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> > > > > > > Date: Thursday, November 27, 1997 9:13 AM > > > > > > Subject: Re: Winnie Madikizela-Mandela > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Sent by "Pa Musa Jallow" <pmj@commit.gm> > > > > > > > via Commit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Dear Folks, > > > > > > >Regarding Mrs Winnie Madikezela-Mandela: On BBC Focus on Africa, > > 25/11/97; > > > > > > >It was reported that "Baroness"Emma Nicholson was taking private > > > > > > >prosecution on murder charges against Winnie on behalf of Stompie ??'s > > > > > > >mother; > > > > > > >now this Emma Nicholson if I recall was a short-lived Minsiter or junior > > > > > > >minister under Margaret Thatcher..the latter and her cabinet was very > > > > > > >famous in affording apartheid much needed breathing space in its latter > > > > > > >years and also holding the ANC and Mandala as communist-terrorists; > > > > > > >I think Nicholson should just simply be deported as an undesirable and > > > > > > >unwanted element in Africa.. > > > > > > >I don't care whether Winnie is guilty or innocent; Emma does not have a > > > > > > >voice or vote in our affairs; it is like having the KKK decide on black > > on > > > > > > >black crime > > > > > > > > > > > > > >folks, I have used the utmost restraint in not calling the b******* the > > > > > > >names she deserves in my opinion. > > > > > > >pmj > > > > > > > > > > > > > >---------- > > > > > > >> From: Modou Jallow <mjallow@st6000.sct.edu> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- > > > Return-Path: <GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu> > > > Received: from relay32.mail.aol.com (relay32.mail.aol.com > > [172.31.109.32]) > > > by air09.mail.aol.com (v36.0) with SMTP; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 01:17:40 -0500 > > > Received: from lists3.u.washington.edu (lists3.u.washington.edu > > > [140.142.56.3]) > > > by relay32.mail.aol.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) > > > with ESMTP id XAA03450; > > > Wed, 26 Nov 1997 23:52:41 -0500 (EST) > > > Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) > > > by lists3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with > > SMTP > > > id UAA08597; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 20:52:19 -0800 > > > Received: from mx5.u.washington.edu (mx5.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.6]) > > > by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with > > ESMTP > > > id UAA26856 for <gambia-l@lists.u.washington.edu>; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 > > > 20:52:01 -0800 > > > Received: from qatar.net.qa (qatar.net.qa [194.133.33.11]) > > > by mx5.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with SMTP > > > id UAA26960 for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 20:51:57 > > > -0800 > > > Received: from q-tel.qatar.net by qatar.net.qa > > > (SMI-8.6/Qatar-Internet-Sendmail It's now Thu, 27 Nov 1997 07:46:26 > > -0300) > > > id HAA27456; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 07:46:26 -0300 > > > Message-Id: <01bcfaef$c8c654a0$f92185c2@q-tel.qatar.net> > > > Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 07:48:07 +0300 > > > Reply-To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu > > > Sender: GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu > > > Precedence: bulk > > > From: "Bassirou Dodou Drammeh" <kolls567@qatar.net.qa> > > > To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List > > > <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> > > > Subject: Re: Winnie Madikizela-Mandela > > > MIME-Version: 1.0 > > > Content-Type: text/plain; > > > charset="iso-8859-1" > > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > X-To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> > > > X-Priority: 3 > > > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > > > X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 > > > X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN > > > > > >
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Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 18:46:03 -0600 (CST) From: Nyang Njie <st0021@student-mail.jsu.edu> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: How do I retreive old postings Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.971207183745.4074A-100000@student-mail.jsu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Hi Folks, I will appreciate it if some one can help me with the instructions on how to retreive old postings from the list.
Si jama, Daddy Njie. ******************************************************************* "I'd love to go out with you, but the last time I went out, I never came back."
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Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 16:51:42 PST From: "sillah conateh" <sillahconateh@hotmail.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: New Member Message-ID: <19971208005143.13335.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain
Dear List manager,
Can you please add Sainabou Jah to the list. << sai-j@-usa.net >> Your usual co-operation once again is highly appreciated.
Sillah Conateh.
______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 20:08:26 -0500 (EST) From: Ancha Bala-Gaye u <bala7500@mach1.wlu.ca> To: Gambia <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: THE GAMBIA REPORT ON HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS (AI INDEX: AFR 27/05 (fwd) Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9712072047.A9908-0100000@mach1.wlu.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
I'm sure everyone already knows this.......or maybe not. Anyway, just thought I'ld pass it on. Hope everyone is doing great and I hope to at contribute a little something after my exams are over!!!! Ancha.
---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 11:28:00 -0500 From: Amnesty International <amnesty@oil.ca> Reply-To: owner-amnesty-l@host.oil.ca To: amnesty-l@oil.ca Subject: THE GAMBIA REPORT ON HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS (AI INDEX: AFR 27/05
* News Release Issued by the International Secretariat of Amnesty International * AI INDEX: AFR 27/05/97
THE GAMBIA REPORT ON HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS 2 DECEMBER 1997
Amnesty International is releasing a new report on Tuesday 2 December 1997 on human rights violations in the Gambia during and after the return to civilian rule.
The report, The Gambia: Democratic reforms without human rights (AFR 27/05/97) details how despite significant political changes and the release of numerous long-term prisoners of conscience, human rights continue to be violated with impunity.
In the recent months, dozens of members and supporters of legal opposition parties have been persecuted by the authorities for their political activities. Several of them have been detained and some have been tortured.
The first death sentences since the death penalty was reintroduced in 1995 were handed down in 1997 although no judicial executions have taken place. There has been no progress in any investigations into past human rights violations.
The return to civilian rule and the introduction of a new Constitution has improved the Gambia's international reputation and as a result international donors have resumed assistance. Amnesty International believes that this international cooperation should be directed to improve respect for fundamental human rights.
This new report also recommends steps to be taken by the Government of Gambia to improve respect for human rights.
**************************************************************** You may repost this message onto other sources provided the main text is not altered in any way and both the header crediting Amnesty International and this footer remain intact. Only the list subscription message may be removed. **************************************************************** To subscribe to amnesty-L, send a message to <majordomo@oil.ca> with "subscribe amnesty-L" in the message body. To unsubscribe, send a message to <majordomo@oil.ca> with "unsubscribe amnesty-L" in the message body. If you have problem signing off, contact <owner-amnesty-L@oil.ca>
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Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 14:58:34 +1200 From: Saikou B M Njai <sbn13@cad.canterbury.ac.nz> To: Gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: The EL NINO and Africa Message-ID: <4856E5379D6@cad.canterbury.ac.nz>
As an initial contribution to the Bantaba, I would like us to give attention to the El nino weather phenomenon which is presently threatening the world and Africa in particular. According to scientist, the phenomenon is known to cause two weather exteremes of flooding or drought. Most of the African continent including our sub region gets the drought end of the extreme when the EL NINO strikes. The UN Department of Humanitarian Affairs has already set a task force to collaborate with countries in the prevention and mitigation of, and preparedness for, the natural disasters related to the El NINO. What will be the impact of such a major global weather change on the Gambia? Should starting thinking now or wait till the worst happens? What can we do alleviate the sufering of our brothers and sister? These questions are worth thinking about, since agriculture remains the main economic activity of the Gambia.
Each of us can make a difference.
Saikou BM Njai Saikou B M Njai Postgraduate Student Room E311 Department of Civil Engineering University of Canterbury P M B 4800 Christchurch,N Z
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Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 02:33:30 -0500 (EST) From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: The Cabral Trophy Fiasco!! Message-ID: <9712080733.AA27326@st6000.sct.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Tamsir, you wrote:
> Guys, > I think it is very premature to suggest a reorganization of the > management and the coaching staff.
How do you mean? A reorganization is the first step that any team would take after an unexplanable defeat like this. In many countries (including here in the good old USA) that value sports as a national endowment, coaches and managers will get 'fired' after a humilaiatory defeat like this one. It's not that the coaches themselves are incompetent. Rather they are seen as unmotivated. Why do you think players get paid millions of dollars? Michael Jordan will earn $73 million dollars this year (including endoresments) Why? Because they think he has what it takes to win another title. The management would rather get rid of the coach than let Jordan go. He makes the calls and his coach kisses his ass. You see the same thing in big European leagues. Ronaldo, Batistuta, Romario, Zidane (all of whom play in Europe) are all good players but without good coaching they can't win anything. By setting financial strains aside, one could say that the Gambian players are very sophisticated players too, but without the proper coaching they might as well be inexperienced to compete internationally.
> Just a few days ago, these coaches were > doing such a wonderful job according to postings on this list.
Exactly! These posting were biased to the extent of exaggeration. Remember, these were personal and emotional thoughts of how the posters see the Gambian squad. They (and you yourself) would have done the same even if the Scorpions were the lowest on the ladder.
> Why then > should we suggest a dismantling of the organization's hierarchy when we do > not even know what went wrong.
Of course we know what went wrong. Who do you think are better judges than the onlookers? The Organisation was disorganized to begin with. How could one invest so much money into the hosting of such an event without getting his players ready ahead of time. I hear that the team was assembled two months prior to the games. I say that was not enough...but no cause for excuse either! If there is anyone to blame, then who would it be? The coaches, the players,or the sports authority? Surely, someone will have to go down for this, don't you agree?
> Maybe Mali just had a better team. If i > remember very well, Archibald, who is based in The Gambia, was very > impressed with Mali from the get-go.
That is no excuse! The Scorpions are just as good as Mail. Furthermore, it is my understanding that this was Gambia's first defeat by Mali in their seven encounters since 1972. Therefore, to be sympathetic is bound to induce the same mistake again. I say let's get rid of the fear so as to compete fairly but aggressively next time.
> I am making these statements because > having played for and with Alhagie Sillah, i know him to be one of the most > competent coaches in The Gambia. Let's give the brother a chance. Our team > wasn't assembled until a couple of months ago.
Once again, this is a personal and emotional opinion and support from you. Mr. Sillah maybe 'one of the most competent coaches' but he didn't prove it, did he? The only chance he should get, IMO, is to watch the reruns of the players' performance and judge for himself what he thinks best. Using "Our team wasn't assembled until a couple of weeks ago" as an excuse just won't cut it. But as they say, he who falls will always find something to blame it on.
Despite all this, I would still like to wish the Scorpions, eventhough I would prefer a better name, better luck next time. It must feel very painful to invest so much money and national pride in the hosting of this tournament, only to watch the parade go by. What better place to win a trophy than at home?
Just an personal opinion.
Regards, Moe S. Jallow
======================================================================== mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 02:38:33 -0500 (EST) From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: greetings Message-ID: <9712080738.AA28196@st6000.sct.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Latjor, you wrote:
> Greetings folks: > > Glad to be back on the bantaba. >
Greetings Latjor,
Welcome back!
>From your message, it seems like you have a 'hotmail' address. Kindly send me your knew address via private mail.
Regards, Moe S. Jallow =========================================================================== mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 02:49:40 -0500 (EST) From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: How do I retreive old postings Message-ID: <9712080749.AA23356@st6000.sct.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Nyang Njie, you wrote:
> Hi Folks, > I will appreciate it if some one can help me with the > instructions on how to retreive old postings from the list. >
It is tedious....it is tedious! But if you have time, here it is:
------------------- sent by Abdou Touray ----------------------------- Hi folks, I have received various requests from list members on accessing gambia-l archives. Our archive covers from January 31st, 1996 to October 19th, 1997. The discussions are divided into 90 parts. Getting any piece of correspondence involves two steps: (i) Send a command on line by itself to listproc@u.washington.edu to retrieve a list of the files. The command is: index gambia-l -all In return you will get output that looks like: gambia-l.log9601e (1 part, 3956 bytes) -- We did it ! gambia-l.log9602a (1 part, 60055 bytes) -- Re: We did it ! gambia-l.log9602b (1 part, 7037 bytes) -- GAMBIA-L digest 1 gambia-l.log9710c (1 part, 183620 bytes) -- GAMBIA-L digest 89 gambia-l.log9710d (1 part, 299771 bytes) -- GAMBIA-L digest 90
These files are in chronological order; gambia-l.log9710d contains the latest discussions in October of 1997. (ii)Send a command on a line by itself to retrieve the file of discussions that you want. The command is: get gambia-l FILENAME where FILENAME is the name of the file such as gambia-l.log9710c. Retrieving a file will take a long time as the archives are stored on tape drives. Additionally be careful that you do do not swamp your own mailbox as these files are very huge. For example, we have generated close to 30 Megabytes of discussions which is about 40, 000 pages of hard copy [Disclaimer: these are all rough estimates] ! Among gems in the archive are snippets of the electronic version of The Gambian Constitution. Happy hunting ! -Abdou. ------------------------ end message -------------------------------------
Regards, Moe S. Jallow
======================================================================= mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com -----------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 02:19:09 PST From: "sillah conateh" <sillahconateh@hotmail.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Delist Member Message-ID: <19971208101909.21862.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain
Dear List manager,
Please delist Kendaka Gaye << kendakaj@hotmail.com >> until further notice. I appreciate your usual co-operation.
Sillah Conateh.
______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 12:51:09 +0200 (SAST) From: "Fanneh" <fannehm@eng.und.ac.za> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Introduction Message-ID: <E9E3BA334D@eng.und.ac.za> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Hi,
>From your introduction, I think you must be Kawsu Badjie's brother and the twin brother of Alasana Demba who was residing in Banjul (Perseverance Street) while studying at the Gambia High School. Anyway, I wish you success in your studies and hope you will enjoy the discussions.
Cheers
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Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 09:18:56 -0000 From: "archibald.graham@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm> To: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: Zone II - Trophy bound for Bamako - The end of the Road Message-ID: <B0000022088@south.commit.gm> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sent by "Archibald H. R. Graham" <archibald.graham@commit.gm> via Commit
Pa Mambuna, your recent prediction on the list that Mali would finally emerge as winners of the trophy has been fulfilled.
Mali knocked out the Lions by 2 goals to nil in the final of the tourney. It was to be the best of the matches after Mali registered a beautiful goal about the first 10 mins or so of the 1st half, What would you expect after that? Attacks and counter attacks as The Lions tried to and made several attempts to equalize by penetrating the Malian team's defense but to no avail. The 1-0 lead was not a comfortable lead for the Malian team, but they successfully maintained that position till about the last 5 minutes or so of the tournament when they final made the last goal of the tourney just to finally emerge as the rightful winners of the trophy. They maintained their quality of play all through the tourney as they remained undefeated all the way. That I understand made them a twice winner of the trophy leaving The Lions of Senegal as a 7 times winner of it so far.
But then, what else would you have expected from the Malian Team after being promised $10,000 each and also a car each by the Malian Tycoon Babanding currently in the Gambia also. Yes, TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS AND A CAR EACH MEMBER OF THE TEAM if they emerge as winners of the trophy. What would you have done if you were a member of that team with that much of a promise awaiting you by the end of day only if the team wins? For my part, I know I would have "N'Dewo" (struggle) for it all the way. And that is what they happened to have done without playing it dirty as they maintained their sportsmanship and technical ability throughout the trophy. Their matches were a delight to be watched, and personally I think they deserve to lift the Trophy with due regards.
The Lions of Senegal almost made things a bit off-hand as they attempted to attack the referee, Malick Sillah (if I get the name right), as the final whistle was blown but thanks to the intervention force things were normalized and under control.
You might as well want to know of the Scorpions performance in the runners up match earlier in the day. Well sad to say once again they lost the third place in the post match penalties shot outs after playing a wonderful equalizer only in the 2nd half. The Guinean team had a upper hand over the Scorpions during the 1st half as they successfully scored their first goal within the 1st 5 minutes of play. The 2nd goal by the Guinean team was a masterpiece one-man show. This player drove in the ball from no where within the Scorpions danger zone all the way beating about 3 or 4 of the Scorpions single-handedly from his right wing almost heading for the touch line just nearby by the Scorpions' post and as he faked a pass deceiving the last but one man changing foot play he made it a 2nd for the Guinean team. I would have nominated that to be the best goal of the tourney if given the chance. But then came the 2nd half of the match starting with a 2-0 defeat for the Scorpions. Substitutions were made one of which brought in no other than Ebou Sillah. During this 2nd half 2 solid goals were hammered into the Guinean net. The 2nd came in bearly about 10 or so minutes to end of play. The 2-2 draw lasted till the end of the match and the referee opted for a 5-5 post match penalty kicks. The Scorpions lost one of their penalties shot-out whilst all the Guinean team's ended up well into the net as such the match ended in a 7-6 defeat for the Scorpions. Unfortunately for the Scorpions it was their Captain was the one who lost his penalty kick, but definitely it was an unintentional one.
The best player of the tournament award was duly obtained by the Scorpions' Ebou Sillah. For a certainty he deserved it. He has a special sportsmanship about him that could turn his team mates discouragement into life. In fact from personal observation, it appears that Jatto Ceesay plays better when he teams up with Ebou Sillah in the field. Very active and agile I think he merits that award. The team of fair play award ended up with the Guinean team, and for sure they deserved it after falling short of a finalist. In fact the best score of the tournament award was to one of the Guinean team player registering 5 goals by the end of the tournament. The bronze medallists and the silver medallists turned out to be the Guinean team and the Senegalese team respectively whilst the Milian team lifts the trophy at the end of the day.
I am quite sure Air Dabia is about set to take off with the Milian team up to Bamako as the trophy heads with them for that land. Thanks to the Milian team for their wonderful football display here in the Gambia and thanks to their patron's promise which undoubtedly inspired them to end up being the champions of this tournament to be repeated in another edition in two years time in Cape Verde.
For now I have got to get going. I have got a long day ahead of me after the Scorpions (No fault of theirs) failed to make a public holiday for us here. Till I get back, have a nice day.
My regards to all,
Archi
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Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 14:47:52 +0100 From: "Momodou S Sidibeh" <momodou.sidibeh@stockholm.mail.telia.com> To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: SV: SV: Winnie Madikizela-Mandela - Part 2. Message-ID: <199712081351.OAA02754@d1o2.telia.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Buharry, this is the follow up, but first an obvious correction: In the first paragr. of part 1, I wrote: "...But we must also recognise that she, like most people in the leadership, ought to have remained ..." .This should have read "But we must also recognise that she, like most people in the leadership HAD DONE, ought to have remained ....firm and resolute".
5: Yes, you are right. WM has not been convicted of murder and so we must assume her innocence until proven guilty. But she has been found guilty of kidnapping and was sentenced to six years in 1991? For the purposes of writing our own history and believing that what goes in or out of a court of law is not necessarily a reflection of the truth, I think it is important that we assume legal verdicts as potential aids in the search for justice for our conscience. The promotion of an arch conservative like Emma Nicholson as a moral crusader for victims of WM's actions we can dismiss as farcical. As far as I am concerned, she is of no consequence whatsoever, to the history of South Africa.
6. Yes, everyone makes mistakes. WM, however, is not just anyone; and we should weigh the gravity of her mistakes against what would be permissible for a leader of her standing to commit. I cannot come up with any credible reason for dismissing Jerry Richardson's testimony against WM.
These seem to me to be the main points you raised, except for the question of conspiracy by the ANC to tarnish her image. I will say what I would on that in my conclusion.
CONCLUSION:
Discussing WM per se is difficult because I find it almost impossible to extricate her activities from the larger realities of the South African condition during the 1980s. But dealing with that condition here is out of the question. Not just because I am grossly unqualified to do that but also because we might just get loss and warped up in our own attempt at it. So these humble views are neither sufficient nor conclusive: 1. WM's place in the ANC is important. In ideological terms the ANC seems to me to be a social democratic party now. I tend to believe that they are making too many compromises with the interests of capital to the extent that the ordinary people feel left out. For their sake and for the sake of long term stability I think a left-wing faction is necessary in the party. The interests of the marginalised must be sufficiently articulated to ensure that the ANC does not go too far in its rightist moves. And there is no one (as far as I know) better qualified than WM to do that. On the other hand her socialist populism may be more damaging to the economy should she implement her ideas if she becomes overall boss. I sincerely believe that this is the reason why the ANC leadership seems to be bent on isolating her. I do not know if there is a conspiracy to tarnish her image for any other reason.
2. Any crime, or crimes really or allegedly committed by WM must be seen in the context of the brutality of the apartheid regime. An illustration: Simon Mpungose (mm-pun-go-say), commonly known as Simon the Hammerman had a wicked childhood and lacked everything from food to school books. He was a Zulu and the circumstances of his birth made him believe he was of no human value whatsoever. He lacked a future, until he was locked up at Barberton Prison for petty theft. There he witnessed the most appaling atrocities committed on black prisoners. Then his life changed and he discovered his mission. When he was released, he got himself a sledgehammer, and visited the white suburbs at night. He would creep like the rustling wind in their homes, unlatch their windows silently and tiptoe into their bedrooms. The Hammerman would beat the heads of white men and their wives into a messy pulp, spare their children and disappear into the darkness. Terror spread amongst the whites. They no longer slept with their guns alone. They had helmets strapped to their heads as well. When he was finally caught and he told his story in court he concluded his mission was complete and that he only wanted to die. His lawyers, astounded in disbelief, hired Bruce Gillmer, a sort of psychiatrist, in the hope that he would declare Simon insane and consequently save him from the rope. But Bruce Gilmer did not. In spite of his anti-apartheid sentiments he could not, for his professional integrity,declare Simon mad. He said that Simon was a genius; that he had the power of a great novelist who "drew whites into his black nightmare to take them into punishment cells awash with blood, to show them the broken corpse on which the warders were erasing whip welts with hot irons. When Simon described his days in Barbeton....your own eyes saw rocks transformed into the heads of white oppressors and explode under the blows of a sledgehammer". Simon's work at Barbeton was the endless and tedious job of breaking grey stones into powder. Bruce Gillmer was a 'political forensic psychologist', a left-leaning discipline whose adherents believe that APARTHEID HAS BRUTALIZED THE PSYCHES OF BLACK PEOPLE TO SUCH AN EXTENT THAT APARTHEID ITSELF IS A MITIGATING CIRCUMSTANCE FOR ANY CRIMES THEY MIGHT COMMIT. Simon was hanged on November 20, 1985. So Buharry, I think that the ultimate responsibility for whatever WM committed must be placed squarly on the shoulders of the rockspiders and crunchies and Broederbonders even as she failed in her capacity as leader. We should not lose sight of this fact never mind what CNN says about her.
Have a really good day. Momodou Sidibeh, Stockholm/Kartong.
>> > > > >> >
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Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 12:29:09 -0500 From: habib <hghanim@erols.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: greetings Message-ID: <348C2E65.1EB9@erols.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
latjor ndow wrote: > > Greetings folks: > > Glad to be back on the bantaba. > > Could the managers please add Omar Jobe to the list. His address is: > oijobe@aol.com > > Regards, > > LatJor > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Welcome back Latjor Habib -- MZ
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Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 21:16:31 +0300 From: BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa> To: "'gambia-l@u.washington.edu'" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: The Scorpions Second Debacle!! Message-ID: <01BD041E.BFEAAD80@ddgz.qatar.net.qa> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I have got a long day ahead of me after the Scorpions (No fault of theirs) failed to make a public holiday for = us here. Till I get back, have a nice day.
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ Archi, The only people I have praise for now are you and PmJ (our ArmChair = commentators) and those tens of thousands of Gambians who have been = tirelessly flocking to the stadium to stand by and show support for the = Scorpions.As for our Scorpions,now that they have blown the second = chance that Mr.Nbai insists we should give them(we are not even third = anymore),maybe our traditional Gambian niceness should give way to a = much more rational and unsentimental appraisal.The brutal fact remains = that,based on results,this has been one of the worst performances of the = Gambian National team,the nationalistic hoopla notwithstanding! That is = why not only a revamp is in order,but even a change of name,as Moe = Jallow has suggested,should be given some thought. Because the last time = I checked,REAL Scorpions get very ferocious and poisonous when defending = their home territories from strangers.That evidently has not been the = case here,has it?!
So,Archi,sorry about not having a well-deserved public holiday after you = and PmJ have done such a great job! But maybe you should try to blame = someone for it; and if i were you,I would choose either the coach or the = Scorpions.But in the meantime ,keep up the good work down there!!!
Regards Bassss!
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Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 07:11:17 +0330 From: "malang maane" <langjr@worldnet.att.net> To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <19971208205205.AAA24753@kansala.avana.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hello everyone, My name is Malang Maane. I graduated from Gambia High School in 1993 (6th form science). I then went on to Canada where I got a diloma in engineering and did an extra year for a degree towards Mech eng. I worked for GPTC from 05/96 to 08/96 as a coop program. I am now in Atlanta and I work for AT&T...I hope to enroll soon in school to continue my degree. Thank you all for your time. Mr Malang Maane 1870 Myrtle Drive F7 Atlanta Ga 30311 (404)753 0989
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Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 20:04:50 EST From: TOURAY 1 <TOURAY1@aol.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: The Cabral Trophy Fiasco!! Message-ID: <31c15006.348ca050@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Mr Moe, Kool down a little bit; Atleast Senegal didn't beat the hell out of us this time.(joke)
Lams
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Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 21:11:49 -0500 From: Andy Lyons <alyons@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Seeking Hotel Info Message-ID: <2.2.16.19971209021149.21cf19a4@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi all,
I often get email from people who visit my web page, asking about places to stay in Gambia. I think it would be useful to have online a list of hotels with a short description of each (i.e., number of rooms, facilities, cost, contact info, etc.) If there is anyone on this list who is in the tourism industry or elsewhere, has access to such information, and would be willing to email it to me, I'd be grateful. Although I'm not interested in posting full-scale advertisements for the hotels (who I believe have the resources to do so on their own if they'd like), a short list of hotels, safari companies, etc. and their services would be useful to many. Judging by the usage stats and message boards, the largest audience of visitors to The Gambia Resource Page seem to be past and future tourists.
Abarka, Andy
=============================================================== Andy Lyons The Gambia Resource Page alyons@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu http://grove.ufl.edu/~alyons ===============================================================
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Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 00:46:20 EST From: Oijobe <Oijobe@aol.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: New members Message-ID: <5bc3393a.348cdb31@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
THANKS FOR HAVING ON BOARD GUYS. IT'S A GREAT PLEASURE TO JOIN SUCH A TEAM. JUST A BRIEF INTRODUCTION. MY NAME IS OMAR JOBE AKA MAO JOBE. I RESIDE IN ALEXANDRIA, VA. U.S.A. I HAVE BEEN IN THE AREA FOR OVER TWELVE YEARS. MOST OF THE MEMBERS ARE VERY CLOSE PERSONAL FRIENDS AND IT'S GREAT TO BE ON LINE WITH THEM. ONCE AGAIN, THANKS FOR HAVING ME ON BOARD. HEY PA JENG, THANKS FOR THE WARM WELCOME TO THE INFO SUPER HIGHWAY. I WILL SEE YOU LATER. THANKS OMAR JOBE (MAO)
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Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 22:56:20 -0000 From: "pmj@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm> To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Zone II commentary from the arm chair: Semis and Finals and Signing Off Message-ID: <B0000022484@south.commit.gm> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sent by "Pa Musa Jallow" <pmj@commit.gm> via Commit
Hi Folks, Okay..very unsporty..but The Gambia lost 2-1 to Mali and ended my commenting career; I frankly was not in the mood to discuss it..but on the whole..our boys played..and cried on the pitch.. what happened? for some reason, our goaler..George Lobba had knee injury..both knees but Coach Sillah kept him there even after he collapsed and could not even kick the ball..the Malians realized this and kept taking shots at the goal..and scored two goals in the first half, in the second half, changes were made and the Gambians kept attacking and scored one goal but time ran out..in the second half, it was show time and all Gambian, but the changes were too late and out went the scorpions; Senegal vs Guinea Conakry 2:1 It was obvious that Guinea was the strongest team in the zonals but the Senegal lions..underdogs outplayed and outran the guineans and won an upset victory..
Finals: For 3rd and 4th place..Guinea lead 2-1 before the Gambia finally equalised Penalties were lost 4-5 but for drawing the strong Guinea team, the Gambians redeemed themselves and I AM PROUD OF THE SCORPIONS Senegal lost by a lone goal to MALI; they could not find the magic that defeated a stronger GUINEA which drew with MALI..so MALI emerges as the ZONE II CHAMPIONS FOR 1997 The Match was attended by Bissau President Nino Viera and Jammeh; thus concluded the best organised Zone II so far
--from the arm chair in banjul --------a no longer depressed scorpion pmj
Best Player: Ebou Sillah of The Gambia*******
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Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 01:17:37 EST From: Oijobe <Oijobe@aol.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: SV: RE:The Cabral Trophy Fiasco!! Message-ID: <206a7845.348ce283@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 97-12-07 19:53:48 EST, you write:
<< stockholm >> MY BROTHER, WHAT'S HAPPENING? I DIDN'T REALLY KNOW WHAT WENT ON DURING THE TURNAMENT AND WHY WE LOST TO THE MALIANS. I THINK IT'S TOO EARLY TO MAKE ANY SUGGESTIONS ON MANAGEMENT AND COACHING RESUFFLING. I PLAYED FOR ROOTS FOOTBALL CLUB IN THE EARLY 80'S WITH ALHAGIE SILLAH BEING THE COACH. HE IS AN EXCELLENT COACH AND LEADER. MAY BE THE MALIANS HAD A BETTER SIDE THAN ALL OTHER TEAMS IN THE TURNAMENT. WE SHOULD COMMENT THEM FOR THEIR OUTSTANDING PERFORMANCE DURING THE ENTIRE TURNAMENT AND WAIT FOR COACHES EXPLANATION. GOOD NIGHT FROM MAO JOBE.
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Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 09:45:02 -0500 (EST) From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: The Cabral Trophy Fiasco!! Message-ID: <9712091445.AA31516@st6000.sct.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Lams, you wrote:
> Mr Moe, > Kool down a little bit; Atleast Senegal didn't > beat the hell out of us this time.(joke)
Hey Lams,
Warning heeded ...
Senegal didn't beat us by way of goals but they defeated us both emotionally and psychologically. Emotionally, because they came to our turf and held us to a draw despite our cheering crowd. Psychologically, because they have won the cup 7 times and did manage to make it to finals again (they always have someting to boast about). Now, take a look at our position below despite being the host nation.
1. Mali (Trophy) 2. Senegal (Silver) 3. Guinea (Bronze) 4. Gambia
I have cooled off now (after insult was added to injury by Guinea's victory for third place) but I will feel much better when the entire organisation is overhauled, including a change of name and national colours for the SCORPIONS. After all, this is a new Gambia and we should deserve better.
Regards, Moe S. Jallow
PS Lams, I'm still waiting for your reply to the last message I sent you.
========================================================================== mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com --------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 10:10:07 -0500 (EST) From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: ECOWAS web site Message-ID: <9712091510.AA27848@st6000.sct.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
FYI, ECOWA'S web site, www.ecowas.com, is currently under construction. They are still gathering information on member countries. It's coming and will be breath taking with lots and lots of information. It will be the best source of information on West Africa. stay tuned. Regards, Moe S. Jallow ====================================================================== mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 11:44:30 -0800 From: Anna Secka <secka@cse.bridgeport.edu> To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: Human Rights Violations Message-ID: <348D9F9E.437BDB62@cse.bridgeport.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hello list members, Recently I have seen at least a couple of postings from Amnesty claiming the violations of human rights in the Gambia. I feel that this is a very important issue that we should discuss. The last time I heard, Gambia was a democratic country. How can it be if human rights are being violated and citizens are even scared to express their opinions without being tortured or threatened? Do I sense the attitude "Since they are not my relatives, I do not care." Remember what goes around comes around. It might not be your relatives or friends today but it might be tomorrow. Gambia is our nation, if we do not build it, nobody will do it for us. If we do not stop this "Nonsense," trust me nobody will. I propose that we do something about it before it gets out of hand. Does anyone out there agree with me? Please comment and/or give suggestions.
--------- Anna Secka secka@cse.bridgeport.edu
Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. -- Salvor Hardin
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Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 12:32:14 -0500 (EST) From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: World Bank's Summer Employment Program Message-ID: <9712091732.AA26736@st6000.sct.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
FYI, The Summer Employment Program (SEP) has re-opened (as of December 1) for its 1998 season. For your convenience, a web site providing information on Employment Opportunities in the Bank is located at:
www.worldbank.org/html/extdr/employ.htm Information regarding the SEP, as well as a link to an automated application form to the Program, is included at that site. CVs may also be mailed to: The World Bank Summer Employment Program 1818 H Street ROOM S5-073 Washington, DC 20433 and must be postmarked no later than January 30, 1998. The Bank pays a monthly salary to all Summer Assistants and, where applicable, provides an allowance towards travel expenses. Summer Assistants are responsible for their own living accommodations. The Bank does not offer unpaid or volunteer positions at any time. All summer positions are located in Washington, DC, and are a minimum of four weeks in duration. Assignments can begin as early as May and usually end by September 30th. Further queries regarding the SEP may be addressed to Sprogram@worldbank.org
Regards, Moe S. Jallow
========================================================================== mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com --------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 13:05:17 -0500 (EST) From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Human Rights Violations Message-ID: <9712091805.AA51776@st6000.sct.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Anna Secka wrote:
> Hello list members, > Recently I have seen at least a couple of postings from Amnesty > claiming the violations of human rights in the Gambia. I feel that this > is a very important issue that we should discuss. The last time I heard, > Gambia was a democratic country. How can it be if human rights are being > violated and citizens are even scared to express their opinions without > being tortured or threatened? Do I sense the attitude "Since they are > not my relatives, I do not care." Remember what goes around comes > around. It might not be your relatives or friends today but it might be > tomorrow. Gambia is our nation, if we do not build it, nobody will do it > for us. If we do not stop this "Nonsense," trust me nobody will. I > propose that we do something about it before it gets out of hand. Does > anyone out there agree with me? Please comment and/or give suggestions.
Well said, sister. I am glad you brought up this topic again. I think it was Ancha who posted an article about this a couple of days ago. Like you said, the feeling is that we seem to ignore the fact that there is still human rights violations in our own back yard. I do believe that the majority of those who know what is going on are our brothers and sisters back home. They are also the ones who can ultimately bring to the open all the mistreatments and harsh violations of individual rights as mentioned in human rights articles. Considering the fact that they are indeed in the midst of all the 'problems' and could be subjected to persecution, it will become increasing difficult for them to discuss such issues openly for fear of reprisal by the government. I am sure we have members who could feel us in about what is being said in these reports but for the sake of their own lives and the lives of their loved ones, they seek not no to comment. To this cause, we cannot and should not condemn them for being intimidated. Instead what we need to do is find ways to make the government aware that we do know, according to some reports, that there are a considerable human rights violations that need addressing as soon as possible. I am tempted to think that there are certain groups in the US and/or other parts of the world that have openly and publicly demostrated at Gambian embassies to show their indifference to such violations. If this is so then the members of those groups might want to fill us in with what actually is happening and what the outcomes, if any, of these demonstrations have yielded. All the same, I agree that we need to pay closer attention to our beloved country and find ways to correct the wrongs before it gets out of hand. And even if we cannot correct them, atleast we will have tried.
Thanks for pointing this out.
Your brother, Moe S. Jallow
========================================================================== mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com --------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 13:30:34 -0500 (EST) From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: The Scorpions Second Debacle!! Message-ID: <9712091830.AA31076@st6000.sct.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Bass, you wrote:
> > Archi, > The only people I have praise for now are you and PmJ (our ArmChair = > commentators) and those tens of thousands of Gambians who have been = > tirelessly flocking to the stadium to stand by and show support for the = > Scorpions.
Right on, Bass! Let me also take this opportunity to thank the commentators, Archi and Pa Musa, for a job well done. Despite the SCORPION'S (Gambia's) loss, your efforts are still very much appreciated.
Thank you.
Regards, Moe S. Jallow ========================================================================== mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 13:52:58 -0500 (EST) From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Is It In Our Nature? Message-ID: <9712091852.AA33482@st6000.sct.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Buharry, you wrote:
> Hi! > I have always wondered why we as Gambians are one of most > disorganised group of foreigners in all the countries I have been to > outside Gambia. Why we have difficulties setting up cohesive and > representative organisations. Why in Atlanta (when I lived there) and in > G=F6teborg here in Sweden we have organisations or nightclubs for Wollofs > and others for Mandinkas. Why Gambian holidays are celebrated based on > tribal lines. Why it is difficult to accept it when one of us prospers. > Why we report fellow Gambians who overstay their visas instead of > helping them. Why we refuse to patronise Gambians who set up businesses. > Why we involve in petty squabbles and fights, backbiting, "taysantays" > etc. instead of channelling our energies towards endeavours that can > improve our lot both in Babylon and back home. Why we .... > Is it in our nature to be jealous? Is it in our nature to be > disorganised? Is it in our nature to petty? OR, are we just lost? > Buharry.
Tom, you have spoken again! I am still trying to catch up with my e-mail but will repond to this privately (if the issue is a dead horse on Gambia-L). It's nothing but the truth, and we definitely need to grow up. And I will only add, "growing old is mandatory, but growing up is optional".
Regards, Moe S. Jallow ========================================================================== mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com --------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 14:28:57 -0500 (EST) From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: The EL NINO and Africa Message-ID: <9712091928.AA36788@st6000.sct.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Mr. Njai, you wrote:
> As an initial contribution to the Bantaba, I would like us to give > attention to the El nino weather phenomenon which is presently > threatening the world and Africa in particular.
Welcome to the list and thank you for the information on EL NINO.
I would like to add that for those who wish to learn more about EL NINO, you can go to the following URL: http://www.ecodec.org/12a/glan12a.htm
You will find some very insightful information there.
Thank you.
Regards, Moe S. Jallow =========================================================================== mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 14:42:09 -0500 (EST) From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Winnie Madikizela-Mandela Message-ID: <9712091942.AA53766@st6000.sct.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Those with opinions on the Winnie-gate trials can forward those opinions to the leadership of the African National Congress. The ANC website on the world-wide web is: http://www.anc.org.za
Selected email addresses are as follows:
General Address ........................ anchq@anc.org.za
President Mandella's Office .............. president@anc.org.za
Deputy President Mbeki's Office ..........tmbeki@anc.org.za
Truth Commission ....................... truthecom@anc.org.za
If any one has Winnie Mandela's address, please add to this list.
Thanks.
Regards, Moe S. Jallow
========================================================================= mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 11:58:45 -0800 (PST) From: "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu> To: Gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: New members Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.96.971209115659.20113F-100000@saul9.u.washington.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Housainou Taal and Ebrima Bah have been added to the list. We welcome them and are looking forward to their introductions and contributions. Thanks Tony Loum
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Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 21:13:36 +0100 From: Marie Gillen <marie.gillen@swipnet.se> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Hi Message-ID: <348DA670.C39@swipnet.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
hello Mao, Wellcom to the Gambia-L This is Marie Gillen.
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Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 15:17:31 -0500 (EST) From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Hi Message-ID: <9712092017.AA37142@st6000.sct.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
> > hello Mao, > Wellcom to the Gambia-L > This is Marie Gillen. >
Hi Marie, Are you related to Muhammed and Aja Gillen, former students of Gambia High School?
Please, respond privately at the following address : mjallow@sct.edu
Thanks.
Regards, Moe S. Jallow =========================================================================== mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 21:47:54 +0100 From: Marie Gillen <marie.gillen@swipnet.se> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Hi Message-ID: <348DAE7A.3522@swipnet.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hello Moe, Yes i am related to gillen and yes it is my Father"s Brother who died last week. thanks marie.G
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Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 12:51:12 PST From: "ebrima drameh" <njogou@hotmail.com> To: GAMBIA-L@U.WASHINGTON.EDU Subject: PLEASE SUBSCRIBE Message-ID: <19971209205112.18489.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain
HELLO LIST MANAGERS, KINDLY SUBSCRIBE MR GABRIEL D. MENDY TO THE LIST. HIS EMAIL ADDRESS IS GMENDY@HOTMAIL.COM.
______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 22:30:21 -0800 From: MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA <m.gassama@swipnet.se> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Is It In Our Nature? Message-ID: <348E36FD.3274@swipnet.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Ousman! First of all, I want to point out that I framed the statements and questions the way I did on purpose. I wanted the issues to be attention-grabbing. I wanted to be positively provocative. So when you sent a reply a few hours later, I had to restrain myself from explaining the reason there and then. I understand that many on this list only have e-mail access at work or school and I sent the post on Friday evening. I decided to wait until Monday/Tuesday when everyone would have had the chance to read the first post.
You wrote: > When did you do your census on such exclusively Gambian behaviors? I =
> think you will find elements like these in any society. It is very =
> good to address such problems when they affect a society you belong =
> but what's up with these sweeping statements?
I did not carry out any scientific investigation into Gambian behaviour. I agree with you that such elements can be found in any society. However, in my attempt to get members=B4 attention, framing the statements in a general manner would not have done. Asking how we as humans can do such things is not specific enough. I also understand and know that these elements are a minority of Gambian society. I am not an intelligent fella but I sometimes try to fool myself into believing that I have a little bit of common sense and common sense dictates that all blanket statements are false. You see, I could not have literally meant all Gambians because if I did, my statement would have fallen even before being sent out because I am a Gambian and I would never dream of doing some of the issues raised. Concerning tribal affiliation, I agree that tribes are a reality of our society which precede the country known as Gambia. I also agree that there is nothing wrong with enjoying one=B4s tribal heritage because it i= s Gambia=B4s diversity that makes the country exciting and this diversity can be advatageous. However, the reality of the given examples go beyond simple tribal identification. They have become divisive factors. I can remember that the Mandinkas used to have their celebrations in Marietta whilst the Wollofs used to have theirs around the Campbellton Road area. I can also remember what was being said and in what tone. The situation in G=F6teborg is as bad or even worse. There is rivalry among Gambians based on tribal lines. This is when tribalism can become dangerous. We are not living in "time immemorial". We are living in the 1990s and the reality is that Gambia is a country made up of many tribes. If we allow tribalism to become divisive, the implications would be too terrible to even contemplate. Examples abound around Africa. I also believe in the ultimate unification of the African continent. However, if the few hundreds of us living in one city cannot come together as Gambians, then the dream of African unity is but an illusion. For African unity to be meaningful and everlasting, unification has to start from within the countries of the African continent. Why should we stop at Sub-Saharan Africa? Aren=B4t there Africans on the other side? I talked about Gambian unity because Gambia-l is a Gambian forum and is as good a place to discuss Gambian issues as any. To the issues I raised in the original post. Even though it is wrong to generalise and say that all Gambians abroad are hopeless when it comes to organising themselves, I have to say that I have been unlucky enough to live only in cities where the organisations or those who are to be organised have left much to desire. In Atlanta, it was at one point the "kotos"/boys rivalry that plagued us and threatened any meaningful attempt to better our condition. In Stockholm, the same issue has plagued the organisation for a long time. The younger Gambians criticise every move the older members who have always volunteered their time to run the organisation make. Yet when it comes to election of officials, those who consistently criticise the way things are run refuse to take any responsibility. The same is said for some older Gambians also. Meetings are held for hours without a single issue being resolved. Many a time the meetings end in insults and sometimes physical fights. This has led to an organisation in tatters despite the fact that the organisation is not in the least poor. This has also led to an organisation which has the potential to accomplish much but which is neutralised by its own negativity. All who zealously start to contribute get fed up in a short period of time. That is why Gambians are one of the least organised groups that I know in Stockholm. Gambians are one of the first African groups to migrate to Sweden yet we have not accomplished much and cannot do much for our own. The Eritreans who started migrating a few years ago have concrete projects both here and back home through their organisation. One of the projects the Ugandans have is that they contribute money to take a deceased home and make a collection to give to his/her family back home. There are more examples. What do the Gambians have? Even setting up a memorial fund for the late Amadou Jallow, one of the founders of the organisation, to help students back home was plagued with so much negativity and bickering that nothing has come out of it. Whenever there is talk of taking some of the organisation=B4s money and investing in something worthwhile, many a person stands up to come up with a reason not to yet no one objects when the money is to be used to finance parties etc. Another result of our disunity is that we blow away chances both for ourselves and our country. Over a year ago here in Stockholm, a Gambian who had contacts with Huddinge Hospital learnt that they were to change some of their equipment and beds. He negotiated with them and they promised to donate the things to RVH in Banjul as long as he could take care of the shipment. He contacted the Gambian organisation and a meeting was called to discuss the issue. After explaining the situation, the floor was open. One of the members said that he would nominate someone else to accompany the things to Gambia because the person who came up with the idea only wanted to go to Gambia for holidays. This being the case, he should buy his own airticket and not expect the organisation to sponsor his holidays. This led to so much arguing, insults and literally to a physical fight. The meeting ended in chaos and that was the last thing about the equipment. I think the equipment ended up in one of the Baltic states. We all lost. Gambia lost. Another issue I raised dealt with reporting people to the immigration authorities because they overstay their visas. This is a real problem not only in Stockholm but even in England. Some people are notorious for that in London and people warn newcomers about them. They tell them not to tell those people how long they have been in the country. In Manchester a few months ago, some Gambians and a Senegalese were reported and the police went to their workplace, caught and deported them. Here in Sweden, just before visa requirements were instituted for Gambians, there was a massive operation and many Gambians were deported. Gambians were reporting each other like hell. Some were saying that the authorities were paying informants between 2 and 3, 000 Swedish Kronor for every person reported. It was really hot for those without visas for hardly a week went by without someone being deported. The reporting is still going on because just a short while ago, a person was reported and the police were supplied with that person=B4s photograph and they waited for that person to arrive at the gate because they had information that that person was on the way home. How can we be so ? The other issue dealt with the fact that it is difficult for many a Gambian to accept the fact that someone else is ahead. We have to realise that different people have differente endowments and we can never be the same. A successful Gambian is an asset to us all. If Dr. Nyang would pardon me for using him as an example, we all take pride in the fact that he is a professor at an American university. We all take pride in the fact that he is at times invited to be resident professor, speaker or something else. So if a Gambian succeeds in doing what he/she does, why should we be jealous? That person deserves it because he/she worked for it. Maybe if we spend less time being jealous and more time trying, we will also succeed. There are many more issues of this nature that need to be discussed. They are very important issues. I acknowledge the fact that those who are involved in the issues discussed are a minority of the Gambians, that their behaviour is in no way limited to Gambians and that it is human nature to do such things just to get the semantics out of the way and make it possible to discuss the underlying issues. How do we come together to better ourselves and our people? I really believe that it is in our nature to get these hindrants out of the way. Maybe some of us are lost. How can we redirect such people? Thanks. Buharry.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
Ousman Gajigo wrote: > =
> > Hi! > > I have always wondered why we as Gambians are one of most > > disorganised group of foreigners in all the countries I have been to > > outside Gambia. Why we have difficulties setting up cohesive and > > representative organisations. Why in Atlanta (when I lived there) and= in > > G=F6teborg here in Sweden we have organisations or nightclubs for Wol= lofs > > and others for Mandinkas. Why Gambian holidays are celebrated based o= n > > tribal lines. Why it is difficult to accept it when one of us prosper= s. > > Why we report fellow Gambians who overstay their visas instead of > > helping them. Why we refuse to patronise Gambians who set up business= es. > > Why we involve in petty squabbles and fights, backbiting, "taysantays= " > > etc. instead of channelling our energies towards endeavours that can > > improve our lot both in Babylon and back home. Why we .... > > Is it in our nature to be jealous? Is it in our nature to be > > disorganised? Is it in our nature to petty? OR, are we just lost? > =
> When did you do your census on such exclusively Gambian behaviors? I > think you will find elements like these in any society. It is very > good to address such problems when they affect a society you belong > but what's up with these sweeping statements? I don't think this is a > recommendable way to spark meaningful discussion on issues. > =
> >Why in Atlanta (when I lived there) and in > > G=F6teborg here in Sweden we have organisations or nightclubs for > > Wollofs and others for Mandinkas. Why Gambian holidays are > > celebrated based on tribal lines. > =
> These ones are very important points. I'm not really ready to > discuss them in detail right now. I personally would like to see more > emphasis on nationality or African, than on individual tribes. But > there is nothing wrong with people identifying themselves with their > tribes as long as there is mutual respect. In fact this is natural > for most people I know because tribes have been in existence > since time immemorial. When did we have a "Gambia" as we know it > today and is it our creation? In fact, in attempting > to identify us into Gambian, one defeat the purpose because we are > drawing another line between Africans. The point is, if we are going > to attack separation base on ethnic groups, we should not stop on > modern divisive national borders but include the whole sub-saharan > Africa. It is longshot but I don't think anyone will argue that > it is impossible. > =
> Ousman
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 17:03:54 -0500 (EST) From: YAIKAH MARIE JENG <yjeng@welchlink.welch.jhu.edu> To: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Is It In Our Nature? Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96.971209170012.8084A-100000@welchlink.welch.jhu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
hi Buharry, i think your analysis was very well worded and to the point. personally, i don't think you could have stated the facts any better. the fact of the matter is that you are brave enough to voice out opinions that a lot of us don't want to get into. yaikah
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Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 17:19:46 -0500 (EST) From: Ousman Gajigo <gajigoo@wabash.edu> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Is It In Our Nature? Message-ID: <290E2D21D95@scholar.wabash.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: Quoted-printable
Hi Momodou,
>First of all, I want to point out that I framed the statements and >questions the way I did on purpose. I wanted the issues to be >attention-grabbing. I wanted to be positively provocative.
I'm very aware that the way you brought up your point was deliberate and you certainly did not fail to grab my attention. You did no= t at all sound to me like a raving *****. My objection, which was probably too strong and quick, was only to your strong and general characterization (which again may not be inappropriate).
>Why should we stop at Sub-Saharan Africa? Aren=B4t there >Africans on the other side?
Of course they are Africans because we all live on the "African" continent. I personally believe unity within (1)tribes, (2) The Gambia, (3)sub-saharan Africa, (4) Africa/humanity, are all different and larger levels in ascending order. I think they are lots of differences between North Africa and sub-saharan Africa.
Again to repeat what I said, I think your message brought up excellent points that need to be seriously addressed. I don't think there are better topic to discuss right now.
Have a good day. Ousman
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Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 17:36:18 EST From: Oijobe <Oijobe@aol.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Hi Message-ID: <2fcb6d54.348dc7e4@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
HI MARIE, THANKS FOR THE WELCOME. WHAT'S GOING WITH YOU ? ARE WE GONNA SEE THIS CHRISTMAS DON'T MISS OUT THE PARTY. SAY HELLO TO BOCHO, B,O, AMAR, ALHAGIE JOW AND ALL THE REST OF THE PASSY. I WILL SEE YOU IN SWEDEN THIS SUMMER. LOVE MAO JOBE
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Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 14:42:05 -0800 (PST) From: Sarian Loum <Sarian.Loum@Corp.Sun.COM> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: PLEASE SUBSCRIBE Message-ID: <libSDtMail.9712091442.30942.sarian@groucho> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-MD5: vBcUoga0K0PJpjuxDqoV/g==
All,
Gabriel Mendy has been added to our list. Welcome aboard and please send in your intro to gambia-l@u.washington.edu.
regards,
sarian
> Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 12:51:12 PST > From: "ebrima drameh" <njogou@hotmail.com> > To: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> > Subject: PLEASE SUBSCRIBE > Mime-Version: 1.0 > plain X-To: GAMBIA-L@U.WASHINGTON.EDU > X-Originating-IP: [194.83.163.253] > X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN > > HELLO LIST MANAGERS, > KINDLY SUBSCRIBE MR GABRIEL D. MENDY TO THE LIST. > HIS EMAIL ADDRESS IS GMENDY@HOTMAIL.COM. > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 17:42:04 -0500 (EST) From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Is It In Our Nature? Message-ID: <9712092242.AA50100@st6000.sct.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Buharry, you wrote:
> [...] > > There are many more issues of this nature that need to be discussed. > They are very important issues. I acknowledge the fact that those who > are involved in the issues discussed are a minority of the Gambians, > that their behaviour is in no way limited to Gambians and that it is > human nature to do such things just to get the semantics out of the way > and make it possible to discuss the underlying issues. How do we come > together to better ourselves and our people? I really believe that it is > in our nature to get these hindrants out of the way. Maybe some of us > are lost. How can we redirect such people? Thanks. > Buharry. >
Buharry,
This is brilliant!!!!!! I am proud of you bro!
Regards, Moe S. Jallow
=========================================================================== mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 18:29:56 -0800 From: Anna Secka <secka@cse.bridgeport.edu> To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>, Fat Taal <ftaal@PigsEye.Kennesaw.EDU>, Subject: Subcription Message-ID: <348DFEA4.CCC04AD@cse.bridgeport.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hi List Managers, Could you please subscribe the following people to the list? Thanks.
Kumba Secka ksecka@PigsEye.Kennesaw.EDU Fatoumatta Taal ftaal@PigsEye.Kennesaw.EDU
--------- Anna Secka secka@cse.bridgeport.edu
* Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. -- Salvor Hardin
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 15:39:12 -0800 (PST) From: Sarian Loum <Sarian.Loum@Corp.Sun.COM> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Subcription Message-ID: <libSDtMail.9712091539.30815.sarian@groucho> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-MD5: xS9v+EAehtJbBEIXwyrqhg==
All,
Kumba Secka & Fatoumata Taal have been added to the list. Welcome aboard ladies and please send in your intros to gambia-l@u.washington.edu.
regards,
sarian
> Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 18:29:56 -0800 > From: Anna Secka <secka@cse.bridgeport.edu> > To: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> > Subject: Subcription > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > X-To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>, Fat Taal <ftaal@PigsEye.Kennesaw.EDU>, > X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN > > Hi List Managers, > Could you please subscribe the following people to the list? Thanks. > > Kumba Secka ksecka@PigsEye.Kennesaw.EDU > Fatoumatta Taal ftaal@PigsEye.Kennesaw.EDU > > --------- > Anna Secka > secka@cse.bridgeport.edu > > * Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. > -- Salvor Hardin
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 20:12:14 EST From: Jkrubally <Jkrubally@aol.com> To: Gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Fwd: mail to gambia-l Message-ID: <30ed2c0b.348dec70@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part0_881716334_boundary"
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--part0_881716334_boundary Content-ID: <0_881716334@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
In a message dated 97-12-09 13:09:32 EST, Mbk007 writes:
<< Hello,can yo please re- subscribe me to the list. my name is M. B. Krubally,( Baba ) I was a member, but was taken off for some reason that beats me. Tha nks. >>
--part0_881716334_boundary Content-ID: <0_881716334@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline
From: Mbk007 <Mbk007@aol.com> Return-path: <Mbk007@aol.com> To: Jkrubally@aol.com Subject: mail to gambia-l Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 13:09:32 EST Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
jacob, can you please foward this message to the list. just copy it and send it ti gambia-l
Hello,can yo please re- subscribe me to the list. my name is M. B. Krubally,( Baba ) I was a member, but was taken off for some reason that beats me. Than ks.
--part0_881716334_boundary--
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Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 22:59:13 EST From: Oijobe <Oijobe@aol.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: new member Message-ID: <2c24bd3.348e1393@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
could you please add the following to the list Rohey Ceesay- address ROBERTAS@EROL.COM
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Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 14:39:05 +0100 From: "Momodou S Sidibeh" <momodou.sidibeh@stockholm.mail.telia.com> To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: SV: Is It In Our Nature? Message-ID: <199712101338.OAA06980@d1o2.telia.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Buharry, For your information, I am current general secretary of the Organization of Gambians in Stockholm. While I fully agree that the questions you raised are probably one of the most important, your criticism of the OGIS I think is unfair. Even unfairer is the comparison with either the Ugandans or the Eritreans. I shall shortly inform this forum about a meeting to be held here (Stockholm) soon. But until I first inform the paying members (of which you are not one - unfortunately), I must beg everyone else to wait. Nevertheless I shall be more than willing to contribute to this discussion and even answer any questions whatsoever, such as may eventually be raised - as long as I am able to obtain time to do so.
Cheers, Momodou Sidibeh, Stockholm/Kartong.
---------- > Från: MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA <m.gassama@swipnet.se> > Till: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> > Ämne: Re: Is It In Our Nature? > Datum: den 10 december 1997 07:30 > > Hi Ousman! > First of all, I want to point out that I framed the statements and > questions the way I did on purpose. I wanted the issues to be > attention-grabbing. I wanted to be positively provocative. So when you > sent a reply a few hours later, I had to restrain myself from explaining > the reason there and then. I understand that many on this list only have > e-mail access at work or school and I sent the post on Friday evening. I > decided to wait until Monday/Tuesday when everyone would have had the > chance to read the first post. > > You wrote: > > When did you do your census on such exclusively Gambian behaviors? I > > think you will find elements like these in any society. It is very > > good to address such problems when they affect a society you belong > > but what's up with these sweeping statements? > > I did not carry out any scientific investigation into Gambian > behaviour. I agree with you that such elements can be found in any > society. However, in my attempt to get members´ attention, framing the > statements in a general manner would not have done. Asking how we as > humans can do such things is not specific enough. I also understand and > know that these elements are a minority of Gambian society. I am not an > intelligent fella but I sometimes try to fool myself into believing > that I have a little bit of common sense and common sense dictates that > all blanket statements are false. You see, I could not have literally > meant all Gambians because if I did, my statement would have fallen even > before being sent out because I am a Gambian and I would never dream of > doing some of the issues raised. > Concerning tribal affiliation, I agree that tribes are a reality of our > society which precede the country known as Gambia. I also agree that > there is nothing wrong with enjoying one´s tribal heritage because it is > Gambia´s diversity that makes the country exciting and this diversity > can be advatageous. However, the reality of the given examples go beyond > simple tribal identification. They have become divisive factors. I can > remember that the Mandinkas used to have their celebrations in Marietta > whilst the Wollofs used to have theirs around the Campbellton Road area. > I can also remember what was being said and in what tone. The situation > in Göteborg is as bad or even worse. There is rivalry among Gambians > based on tribal lines. This is when tribalism can become dangerous. We > are not living in "time immemorial". We are living in the 1990s and the > reality is that Gambia is a country made up of many tribes. If we allow > tribalism to become divisive, the implications would be too terrible to > even contemplate. Examples abound around Africa. > I also believe in the ultimate unification of the African continent. > However, if the few hundreds of us living in one city cannot come > together as Gambians, then the dream of African unity is but an > illusion. For African unity to be meaningful and everlasting, > unification has to start from within the countries of the African > continent. Why should we stop at Sub-Saharan Africa? Aren´t there > Africans on the other side? I talked about Gambian unity because > Gambia-l is a Gambian forum and is as good a place to discuss Gambian > issues as any. > To the issues I raised in the original post. Even though it is wrong to > generalise and say that all Gambians abroad are hopeless when it comes > to organising themselves, I have to say that I have been unlucky enough > to live only in cities where the organisations or those who are to be > organised have left much to desire. In Atlanta, it was at one point the > "kotos"/boys rivalry that plagued us and threatened any meaningful > attempt to better our condition. In Stockholm, the same issue has > plagued the organisation for a long time. The younger Gambians criticise > every move the older members who have always volunteered their time to > run the organisation make. Yet when it comes to election of officials, > those who consistently criticise the way things are run refuse to take > any responsibility. The same is said for some older Gambians also. > Meetings are held for hours without a single issue being resolved. Many > a time the meetings end in insults and sometimes physical fights. This > has led to an organisation in tatters despite the fact that the > organisation is not in the least poor. This has also led to an > organisation which has the potential to accomplish much but which is > neutralised by its own negativity. All who zealously start to contribute > get fed up in a short period of time. That is why Gambians are one of > the least organised groups that I know in Stockholm. Gambians are one of > the first African groups to migrate to Sweden yet we have not > accomplished much and cannot do much for our own. The Eritreans who > started migrating a few years ago have concrete projects both here and > back home through their organisation. One of the projects the Ugandans > have is that they contribute money to take a deceased home and make a > collection to give to his/her family back home. There are more examples. > What do the Gambians have? Even setting up a memorial fund for the late > Amadou Jallow, one of the founders of the organisation, to help students > back home was plagued with so much negativity and bickering that nothing > has come out of it. Whenever there is talk of taking some of the > organisation´s money and investing in something worthwhile, many a > person stands up to come up with a reason not to yet no one objects when > the money is to be used to finance parties etc. > Another result of our disunity is that we blow away chances both for > ourselves and our country. Over a year ago here in Stockholm, a Gambian > who had contacts with Huddinge Hospital learnt that they were to change > some of their equipment and beds. He negotiated with them and they > promised to donate the things to RVH in Banjul as long as he could take > care of the shipment. He contacted the Gambian organisation and a > meeting was called to discuss the issue. After explaining the situation, > the floor was open. One of the members said that he would nominate > someone else to accompany the things to Gambia because the person who > came up with the idea only wanted to go to Gambia for holidays. This > being the case, he should buy his own airticket and not expect the > organisation to sponsor his holidays. This led to so much arguing, > insults and literally to a physical fight. The meeting ended in chaos > and that was the last thing about the equipment. I think the equipment > ended up in one of the Baltic states. We all lost. Gambia lost. > Another issue I raised dealt with reporting people to the immigration > authorities because they overstay their visas. This is a real problem > not only in Stockholm but even in England. Some people are notorious for > that in London and people warn newcomers about them. They tell them not > to tell those people how long they have been in the country. In > Manchester a few months ago, some Gambians and a Senegalese were > reported and the police went to their workplace, caught and deported > them. Here in Sweden, just before visa requirements were instituted for > Gambians, there was a massive operation and many Gambians were deported. > Gambians were reporting each other like hell. Some were saying that the > authorities were paying informants between 2 and 3, 000 Swedish Kronor > for every person reported. It was really hot for those without visas for > hardly a week went by without someone being deported. The reporting is > still going on because just a short while ago, a person was reported and > the police were supplied with that person´s photograph and they waited > for that person to arrive at the gate because they had information that > that person was on the way home. How can we be so ? > The other issue dealt with the fact that it is difficult for many a > Gambian to accept the fact that someone else is ahead. We have to > realise that different people have differente endowments and we can > never be the same. A successful Gambian is an asset to us all. If Dr. > Nyang would pardon me for using him as an example, we all take pride in > the fact that he is a professor at an American university. We all take > pride in the fact that he is at times invited to be resident professor, > speaker or something else. So if a Gambian succeeds in doing what he/she > does, why should we be jealous? That person deserves it because he/she > worked for it. Maybe if we spend less time being jealous and more time > trying, we will also succeed. > There are many more issues of this nature that need to be discussed. > They are very important issues. I acknowledge the fact that those who > are involved in the issues discussed are a minority of the Gambians, > that their behaviour is in no way limited to Gambians and that it is > human nature to do such things just to get the semantics out of the way > and make it possible to discuss the underlying issues. How do we come > together to better ourselves and our people? I really believe that it is > in our nature to get these hindrants out of the way. Maybe some of us > are lost. How can we redirect such people? Thanks. > Buharry. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Ousman Gajigo wrote: > > > > > Hi! > > > I have always wondered why we as Gambians are one of most > > > disorganised group of foreigners in all the countries I have been to > > > outside Gambia. Why we have difficulties setting up cohesive and > > > representative organisations. Why in Atlanta (when I lived there) and in > > > Göteborg here in Sweden we have organisations or nightclubs for Wollofs > > > and others for Mandinkas. Why Gambian holidays are celebrated based on > > > tribal lines. Why it is difficult to accept it when one of us prospers. > > > Why we report fellow Gambians who overstay their visas instead of > > > helping them. Why we refuse to patronise Gambians who set up businesses. > > > Why we involve in petty squabbles and fights, backbiting, "taysantays" > > > etc. instead of channelling our energies towards endeavours that can > > > improve our lot both in Babylon and back home. Why we .... > > > Is it in our nature to be jealous? Is it in our nature to be > > > disorganised? Is it in our nature to petty? OR, are we just lost? > > > > When did you do your census on such exclusively Gambian behaviors? I > > think you will find elements like these in any society. It is very > > good to address such problems when they affect a society you belong > > but what's up with these sweeping statements? I don't think this is a > > recommendable way to spark meaningful discussion on issues. > > > > >Why in Atlanta (when I lived there) and in > > > Göteborg here in Sweden we have organisations or nightclubs for > > > Wollofs and others for Mandinkas. Why Gambian holidays are > > > celebrated based on tribal lines. > > > > These ones are very important points. I'm not really ready to > > discuss them in detail right now. I personally would like to see more > > emphasis on nationality or African, than on individual tribes. But > > there is nothing wrong with people identifying themselves with their > > tribes as long as there is mutual respect. In fact this is natural > > for most people I know because tribes have been in existence > > since time immemorial. When did we have a "Gambia" as we know it > > today and is it our creation? In fact, in attempting > > to identify us into Gambian, one defeat the purpose because we are > > drawing another line between Africans. The point is, if we are going > > to attack separation base on ethnic groups, we should not stop on > > modern divisive national borders but include the whole sub-saharan > > Africa. It is longshot but I don't think anyone will argue that > > it is impossible. > > > > Ousman
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Momodou
Denmark
11636 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2021 : 15:54:38
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Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 17:21:58 +0200 From: momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: New Members Message-ID: <19971210162219.AAA45942@momodou> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Greetings, Rohey Ceesay and Sainabou Jah have been added to the list. Welcome to Gambia-l, you can send a brief introduction to gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Momodou Camara
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Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 14:25:53 -0500 From: Sailey_Sey <SeyS@husson.edu> To: "'The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List '" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>, Subject: RE: Is It In Our Nature? Message-ID: <B1AFF5622706D11180320000F80326D619953B@mail.husson.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Buharry, You couldn't have said it any better. Hopefully, people will read = this and get their acts together. We need to remember that jealousy will not take us anywhere, but backwards. Like you said, only hardwork will make us=20 prosper. Being abroad especially should open our eyes to the discrimination and hatred that's going on. Almost=20 all of us have relatives from other tribes, and degrading another tribe is the same as degrading yourself. Let's not succum to such foolishness. Forget tribalism, ethnocentrism, and all that crap, and let's come together as Gambians. A whole lot more can be accoplished that way.
si jama Sailey
=20
---------- From: Momodou S Sidibeh To: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List Sent: 12/10/97 8:39:05 AM Subject: SV: Is It In Our Nature?
Buharry, For your information, I am current general secretary of the = Organization of Gambians in Stockholm. While I fully agree that the questions you = raised are probably one of the most important, your criticism of the OGIS I think is unfair. Even unfairer is the comparison with either the Ugandans or the Eritreans. I shall shortly inform this forum about a meeting to be held here (Stockholm) soon. But until I first inform the paying members (of which you are not one - unfortunately), I must beg everyone else to wait. Nevertheless I shall be more than willing to contribute to this discussion and even answer any questions whatsoever, such as may eventually be raised - as long as I am able to obtain time to do so.
Cheers, Momodou Sidibeh, Stockholm/Kartong.
---------- > Fr=E5n: MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA=20 > Till: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
> =C4mne: Re: Is It In Our Nature? > Datum: den 10 december 1997 07:30 >=20 > Hi Ousman! > First of all, I want to point out that I framed the statements and > questions the way I did on purpose. I wanted the issues to be > attention-grabbing. I wanted to be positively provocative. So when = you > sent a reply a few hours later, I had to restrain myself from explaining > the reason there and then. I understand that many on this list only have > e-mail access at work or school and I sent the post on Friday = evening. I > decided to wait until Monday/Tuesday when everyone would have had the > chance to read the first post. >=20 > You wrote: > > When did you do your census on such exclusively Gambian behaviors? = I
> > think you will find elements like these in any society. It is very=20 > > good to address such problems when they affect a society you belong =
> > but what's up with these sweeping statements? >=20 > I did not carry out any scientific investigation into Gambian > behaviour. I agree with you that such elements can be found in any > society. However, in my attempt to get members=B4 attention, framing = the > statements in a general manner would not have done. Asking how we as > humans can do such things is not specific enough. I also understand and > know that these elements are a minority of Gambian society. I am not an > intelligent fella but I sometimes try to fool myself into believing > that I have a little bit of common sense and common sense dictates that > all blanket statements are false. You see, I could not have literally > meant all Gambians because if I did, my statement would have fallen even > before being sent out because I am a Gambian and I would never dream of > doing some of the issues raised. > Concerning tribal affiliation, I agree that tribes are a reality of our > society which precede the country known as Gambia. I also agree that > there is nothing wrong with enjoying one=B4s tribal heritage because = it is > Gambia=B4s diversity that makes the country exciting and this = diversity > can be advatageous. However, the reality of the given examples go beyond > simple tribal identification. They have become divisive factors. I = can > remember that the Mandinkas used to have their celebrations in Marietta > whilst the Wollofs used to have theirs around the Campbellton Road area. > I can also remember what was being said and in what tone. The situation > in G=F6teborg is as bad or even worse. There is rivalry among = Gambians > based on tribal lines. This is when tribalism can become dangerous. = We > are not living in "time immemorial". We are living in the 1990s and the > reality is that Gambia is a country made up of many tribes. If we allow > tribalism to become divisive, the implications would be too terrible to > even contemplate. Examples abound around Africa. > I also believe in the ultimate unification of the African continent. > However, if the few hundreds of us living in one city cannot come > together as Gambians, then the dream of African unity is but an > illusion. For African unity to be meaningful and everlasting, > unification has to start from within the countries of the African > continent. Why should we stop at Sub-Saharan Africa? Aren=B4t there > Africans on the other side? I talked about Gambian unity because > Gambia-l is a Gambian forum and is as good a place to discuss Gambian > issues as any. > To the issues I raised in the original post. Even though it is wrong to > generalise and say that all Gambians abroad are hopeless when it = comes > to organising themselves, I have to say that I have been unlucky enough > to live only in cities where the organisations or those who are to be > organised have left much to desire. In Atlanta, it was at one point the > "kotos"/boys rivalry that plagued us and threatened any meaningful > attempt to better our condition. In Stockholm, the same issue has > plagued the organisation for a long time. The younger Gambians criticise > every move the older members who have always volunteered their time = to > run the organisation make. Yet when it comes to election of = officials, > those who consistently criticise the way things are run refuse to = take > any responsibility. The same is said for some older Gambians also. > Meetings are held for hours without a single issue being resolved. Many > a time the meetings end in insults and sometimes physical fights. = This > has led to an organisation in tatters despite the fact that the > organisation is not in the least poor. This has also led to an > organisation which has the potential to accomplish much but which is > neutralised by its own negativity. All who zealously start to contribute > get fed up in a short period of time. That is why Gambians are one of > the least organised groups that I know in Stockholm. Gambians are one of > the first African groups to migrate to Sweden yet we have not > accomplished much and cannot do much for our own. The Eritreans who > started migrating a few years ago have concrete projects both here = and > back home through their organisation. One of the projects the = Ugandans > have is that they contribute money to take a deceased home and make a > collection to give to his/her family back home. There are more examples. > What do the Gambians have? Even setting up a memorial fund for the late > Amadou Jallow, one of the founders of the organisation, to help students > back home was plagued with so much negativity and bickering that nothing > has come out of it. Whenever there is talk of taking some of the > organisation=B4s money and investing in something worthwhile, many a > person stands up to come up with a reason not to yet no one objects when > the money is to be used to finance parties etc. > Another result of our disunity is that we blow away chances both for > ourselves and our country. Over a year ago here in Stockholm, a Gambian > who had contacts with Huddinge Hospital learnt that they were to change > some of their equipment and beds. He negotiated with them and they > promised to donate the things to RVH in Banjul as long as he could take > care of the shipment. He contacted the Gambian organisation and a > meeting was called to discuss the issue. After explaining the situation, > the floor was open. One of the members said that he would nominate > someone else to accompany the things to Gambia because the person who > came up with the idea only wanted to go to Gambia for holidays. This > being the case, he should buy his own airticket and not expect the > organisation to sponsor his holidays. This led to so much arguing, > insults and literally to a physical fight. The meeting ended in chaos > and that was the last thing about the equipment. I think the = equipment > ended up in one of the Baltic states. We all lost. Gambia lost. > Another issue I raised dealt with reporting people to the immigration > authorities because they overstay their visas. This is a real problem > not only in Stockholm but even in England. Some people are notorious for > that in London and people warn newcomers about them. They tell them not > to tell those people how long they have been in the country. In > Manchester a few months ago, some Gambians and a Senegalese were > reported and the police went to their workplace, caught and deported > them. Here in Sweden, just before visa requirements were instituted for > Gambians, there was a massive operation and many Gambians were deported. > Gambians were reporting each other like hell. Some were saying that the > authorities were paying informants between 2 and 3, 000 Swedish = Kronor > for every person reported. It was really hot for those without visas for > hardly a week went by without someone being deported. The reporting = is > still going on because just a short while ago, a person was reported and > the police were supplied with that person=B4s photograph and they = waited > for that person to arrive at the gate because they had information that > that person was on the way home. How can we be so ? > The other issue dealt with the fact that it is difficult for many a > Gambian to accept the fact that someone else is ahead. We have to > realise that different people have differente endowments and we can > never be the same. A successful Gambian is an asset to us all. If = Dr. > Nyang would pardon me for using him as an example, we all take pride in > the fact that he is a professor at an American university. We all = take > pride in the fact that he is at times invited to be resident professor, > speaker or something else. So if a Gambian succeeds in doing what he/she > does, why should we be jealous? That person deserves it because = he/she > worked for it. Maybe if we spend less time being jealous and more = time > trying, we will also succeed. > There are many more issues of this nature that need to be discussed. > They are very important issues. I acknowledge the fact that those who > are involved in the issues discussed are a minority of the Gambians, > that their behaviour is in no way limited to Gambians and that it is > human nature to do such things just to get the semantics out of the way > and make it possible to discuss the underlying issues. How do we come > together to better ourselves and our people? I really believe that it is > in our nature to get these hindrants out of the way. Maybe some of us > are lost. How can we redirect such people? Thanks. > Buharry. >=20 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------=
- > Ousman Gajigo wrote: > >=20 > > > Hi! > > > I have always wondered why we as Gambians are one of most > > > disorganised group of foreigners in all the countries I have been to > > > outside Gambia. Why we have difficulties setting up cohesive and > > > representative organisations. Why in Atlanta (when I lived there) and in > > > G=F6teborg here in Sweden we have organisations or nightclubs for Wollofs > > > and others for Mandinkas. Why Gambian holidays are celebrated based on > > > tribal lines. Why it is difficult to accept it when one of us prospers. > > > Why we report fellow Gambians who overstay their visas instead of > > > helping them. Why we refuse to patronise Gambians who set up businesses. > > > Why we involve in petty squabbles and fights, backbiting, "taysantays" > > > etc. instead of channelling our energies towards endeavours that can > > > improve our lot both in Babylon and back home. Why we .... > > > Is it in our nature to be jealous? Is it in our nature to = be > > > disorganised? Is it in our nature to petty? OR, are we just lost? > >=20 > > When did you do your census on such exclusively Gambian behaviors? = I > > think you will find elements like these in any society. It is very > > good to address such problems when they affect a society you belong > > but what's up with these sweeping statements? I don't think this is a > > recommendable way to spark meaningful discussion on issues. > >=20 > > >Why in Atlanta (when I lived there) and in > > > G=F6teborg here in Sweden we have organisations or nightclubs for > > > Wollofs and others for Mandinkas. Why Gambian holidays are > > > celebrated based on tribal lines. > >=20 > > These ones are very important points. I'm not really ready to > > discuss them in detail right now. I personally would like to see more > > emphasis on nationality or African, than on individual tribes. But > > there is nothing wrong with people identifying themselves with = their > > tribes as long as there is mutual respect. In fact this is natural > > for most people I know because tribes have been in existence > > since time immemorial. When did we have a "Gambia" as we know it > > today and is it our creation? In fact, in attempting > > to identify us into Gambian, one defeat the purpose because we are > > drawing another line between Africans. The point is, if we are = going > > to attack separation base on ethnic groups, we should not stop on > > modern divisive national borders but include the whole sub-saharan > > Africa. It is longshot but I don't think anyone will argue that > > it is impossible. > >=20 > > Ousman
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Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 22:26:48 +0200 From: momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Is It In Our Nature? Message-ID: <19971210212711.AAA18954@momodou> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT
Greetings, Here is my few bututs to this topic.
On 6 Dec 97 at 0:36, MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA wrote:
> Hi! > I have always wondered why we as Gambians are one of most > disorganised group of foreigners in all the countries I have been to > outside Gambia.
I do not quite agree with this statement because I have been told several times by other Africans I meet here that we Gambians are among the most organised African groups here in Scandinavia. The Gambian Organizations in Stockholm (OGIS), The Gambian Organization in Oslo and The Gambian Society in Denmark have a long relationship of cooperation over the last 15 years or more. The organizations have football tournaments yearly during the summer which even makes other countries envious. I don't know if you are aware that he are visiting each other every year and the Copenhagen team has always been unbeatable:-)))
Here in Denmark, the Gambian Society was the first African Organization to establish their own premises ( lokale) for many years until it was later closed because of circumstances. We still have only one organization which is not based on any tribal or political lines. Although it is dormant until someone dies, national day celebrations like independence and the usual summer football tournaments. So our situation is not that hopeless.
I can see your point too but we must understand that even in Gambia, we have different political parties and associations.
>Why we have difficulties setting up cohesive and > representative organisations. Why in Atlanta (when I lived there) > and in Göteborg here in Sweden we have organizations or nightclubs > for Wollofs and others for Mandinkas.
I do agree with you here that there are cities where there are associations based on backward tribal lines. These associations are mostly lead by people who always hide behind lies and manipulation.
During the mid 1980s, we were invited to a football match in Göteborg (Gothenburg). The day before we left someone called to our chairman and said that we were invited by a tribalist organization. In spite of that, we went and to my surprise the association consisted of Wollofs, Mandinkas, Akus, Fullas and a few other nationalities from Africa.
It was later that we realized that there were two organizations there. My opinion is that these organizations were divided because of political reasons. I might be wrong!!
> Why it is difficult to accept it > when one of us prospers. Why we report fellow Gambians who overstay > their visas instead of helping them. Why we refuse to patronise > Gambians who set up businesses.
Because they think he/she will become too rich and build a house bigger than theirs in Gambia:-)))))
> Why we involve in petty squabbles > and fights, backbiting, "taysantays" etc. instead of channelling our > energies towards endeavours that can improve our lot both in Babylon > and back home. Why we .... > Is it in our nature to be jealous? Is it in our nature to be > disorganised? Is it in our nature to petty? OR, are we just lost? > Buharry.
These are very important questions to ask and I thank you for your courage in bringing this topic.
Peace Momodou Camara
******************************************************* http://home3.inet.tele.dk/mcamara
**"Start by doing what's necessary, then what's possible and suddenly you are doing the impossible"***
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Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 15:03:23 -0000 From: "pmj@commit.gm" <gambia-l@commit.gm> To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: Is It In Our Nature? The Crab or PHD Syndrome Message-ID: <B0000023059@south.commit.gm> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sent by "Pa Musa Jallow" <pmj@commit.gm> via Commit
Folks, Bro Buharry & Others, In summer 1991, I took my first job/internship with a minority or black-owned construction company and it was an eye-opener, there was so much infighting, negativity, backbiting and even spying and reporting to the MAN or MASSA as the system was called; and it was all black on black; it was very painful and defeating..as Bro Bass wolud put it..to see the reality as opposed to the ideals of BLACK and PROUD, UNITY etc... being young, educated and very idealistic and very AFRICAN and BLACK, I lamented with my 55 year old African-American boss, who was like a father, he laughed and told me about the CRAB SYNDROME.."when you put a lot of crabs in a bucket, say, you do not need to cover it, cos everytime a crab tries to climb out, another would crab it and pull it back".. so in the ghettos, the little Haitis, Little Jamaicas, and little Gambias, all over the world where one of a kind are concentrated; the lowest common denominator sets in..and nobody should get better; it is an extension of the poverty culture... a prominent law professor at Fourah Bay college, Sierra Leone with LLB, LLM, PHD etc...said that the problem with Sierra Leone (it could be GAmbia, Africa or Africa in America or Europe..with concentrations of our people) was that there were too many people with PHD, that is the Pull Him DOwn syndrome... in July 1994, when the coup took place in the Gambia, a lot of us lamented the sorry fact it had to take a military putsch for change to occur, anyhow you look at it, the coup was a generational change, the 30yr olds took over from the 60-70 yr olds, the 40-50 yr olds were do nothins and just happy to be there club; but taking advantage of opportune times, opprotunists kicked in, and very soon the ideals of a new generation taking over responsibility gave way to the PHD, anybody who was somebody or had something must have robbed, pillaged or stolen, in other words, we Africans or blacks or Gambians could just not ever make it without being corrupt or something,..can you imagine the ramifications and import of that thinking... ...even those that do not support the military incursion in civil govt. recognised that a change was overdue but nobody thought it was to turn out so...the reporting on each other, ill-wishing each other, the eagerness for one or another's misfortune within families, neighbourhoods, etc..in those agonising days, I said that for once, we saw some unsavoury aspect of our true nature and that is the same nature you have raised in this topic. I hold that if everytime we demolish everything in order to built, we will never get there, we will never improve, never learn from our mistakes... where did we get this affliction from? I am not a sociologist nor a psychologists but I saw an Ad in the US about space..a monkey in a tight space was fidgetting and monkeying around, but in fairly large space, calmed down and became..almost human...you think it could be about psychological and physical space...economic, mental and cultural space, our existing social structure and set up is constrained econimically, we are poor and undeveloped compared to say the West or even Asia, according to all the information we get; mentally: we are consigned to bottom of the human tree, closer to apes, last in development, in education, in our contribution to the eurocentric world, in religious terms, etc..and cultural; we are savages, uncivilised etc...(THAT IS THERE STORY or the MAN'S STORY or HIS-STORY, not MY STORY) so given all these space constraints, the lack of space to define ourselves, develop ourselves, educate (properly) ourselves, we have become the MONKEY in the CAGE ..
so is it our nature? maybe some aspect of our human nature..a part of the SELF instinct and the SURVIVAL instinct..part of the LIBIDO..the will to live: that should controlled but under the conditions in the GHETTO or the CONCENTRATON CAMPS or such harsh and deprived conditions, the INSTINCT for the SELF or one to SURVIVE takes over and there is no room for CONSCIENCE or GUILT;
The sad fact is 1998 years AD, we have to deal with this as part of our reality..in The GAmbia, in Wash., DC, in SOWETO, in STOCKHOLM or HAMBURG or LONDON or in FREETOWN
How do we get over this? Exactly like this, by raising it and discussing it, deep down, we all want to be FIRST, that is OKAY but we realise that WE ALL CANNOT BE FIRST at ALL TIMES and EVERYTHING, that too is OKAY and NORMAL; the opposite is not NORMAL we also have to be honest about OURSELVES but equally paramount is strive and create an environment for our people that is unlike the MONKEY CAGE we live in... that is my 5 dalasis on this and i look forward to your comments ---------- pmj
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Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 17:34:57 -0500 (EST) From: "Malanding S. Jaiteh" <msjaiteh@mtu.edu> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: New Members Message-ID: <199712102234.RAA08739@oak.ffr.mtu.edu>
> From GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu Wed Dec 10 11:26:59 1997 > Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 17:21:58 +0200 > From: momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou) > To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> > Subject: New Members > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN > > Greetings, > Rohey Ceesay and Sainabou Jah have been added to the list. Welcome > to Gambia-l, you can send a brief introduction to > gambia-l@u.washington.edu > > > Momodou Camara > I must take opportunity to welcome our new members. I have noticed that our subscription managers are very busy these days. Keep up the good work down (up?) there!
malanding Jaiteh
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Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 15:16:21 -0800 (PST) From: "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu> To: Gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Forwarded posting from Dr Sulayman Nyang Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.96.971210150838.4142A-100000@saul10.u.washington.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> > > > From: nyang@cldc.howard.edu
> > This is a brief contribution to the question of slavery in Africa. In > > order to shed light on this matter I intend to develop five points to > > remember about the subject.First of all, it should be noted that slavery > > existed in all human societies. Africans are not exempted from this human > > tradedy. However, we must not misuse a term to describe a situation that > > is different from the old concept of slavery. There were two forms of > > slavery in the old Africa. There were slaves who, as in almost all ancient > > societies, were the victims of war. Since there were no Geneva or Haque > > conventions governing the rules of warfare, the prisoners of war (POWS) > > and those Missing in Action (MIA) were usually captured as slaves.This is > > to say, those who were defeated in the battlefield ended up as slaves in > > the households of the victors or wound up in their graves if and when > > perceived as future troublemakers.There were those who ended up in slavery > > because they broke taboos in the society or were used as collaterals in > > servicing debts owed by families and clans. Many Senegambians found > > themselves in the Americas because of this phenomenon. Francis Moore in > > his book on the Senegambia region , published in the eighteenth century , > > mentioned the case of a fellow who was about to be > > sent to the Americas because he stole tobacco. Mungo Park reported the > > fact that some families placed their offspring in the custody of more > > affluent persons during famine and "hungry seasons". Details on > > Senegambian forms of slavery can be gleaned from the writings of Peter > > Weil (the American anthropologist)and Canadian historian Martin Klein.Both > > scholars have examined this issue in the historical and anthropological > > context. The second point is that slavery in Africa was not > > commodified.Hence the radical and fundamental difference between slavery > > in the Americas and slavery in African lands. The kind of slavery American > > historians call "the peculiar institution" in American history was unknown in > > pre-colonial Africa.However, I should hasten to add that Africans became > > partners in the traffic in human cargo soon after the concept of > > comodified slavery was introduced. Without African players there could not > > have developed this massive transplantation of millions from the continent > > to the Americas.This is why American whites, Europeans and continental > > Africans owe an apology to all blacks and persons of mixed parentage in > > the Americas.Those of us living in Africa, Europe and America are not > > directly responsible for this tragedy. It was certainly our ancestors who > > perpetrated such acts of inhumanity. Not all Africans were involved,but > > the crime can only be forgiven when the victims and their descendants are > > assured by the grandchildren and great-grand-children of the perpetrators > > that they are willing to own up to the act of their ancestors. Not all > > Germans were directly involved in the Holocaust against the Jews, but in > > order to re-assure the Jews of German goodwill, German leaders and their > > people had to own up. Certainly the intention here is not to compare the > > Nazi premeditated liquidation of a group of human beings simply because of > > their ethno-religious identity, to what happened during the slave trade. > > Rather, we wish to demonstrate that every human act has consequences, and > > those who perpetrate criminal acts must bear responsibility for what they > > do in human society. This is the only way we can create civilised > > societies. The principle applies now as in the past. Modern African > > dictators are as accountable as those unknown beneficiaries of the slave > > trade. The third point is that human rights of violated children in Africa > > should not be grouped under slavery. They should be properly classified as > > "child abuse" and international and national legislations should be > > developed to address this problem worldwide. Africans who are serious > > about this matter must mobilize and serve notice to their cultural and > > national cousins who engage in such nefarious acts.By misnaming such a > > phenomenon as "slavery" we unintentionally trivialize the problem. Those > > who engage in denial of child abuse cases in their societies would charge > > interested parties with exaggerations and propaganda. When properly > > identified and described, the problem receives the appropiate attention > > and international claim against its existence is brought to bear. This is > > what happened under apartheid.We had a violation of African rights and > > freedoms and we use everything within our power to change it.Like > > commodified slavery it too has been buried in the trash can of history.The > > fourth point to be made here is that each and every agrarian society has > > visible and not so visible forms of discrimination and exploitation of one > > segment of society or the other. In the Senegambia region we too have our > > own social problems.What needs to be done by both the Gambian and > > Senegalese governments is to study the traditional forms of culture which > > have rationalised such practices and then draft legislations to address > > the problem. When the British decided to formally colonize the Gambia, > > they faced a number of African practices which they deem unacceptable. One > > of these problems was domestic slavery.After having abolished > > trans-atlantic slavery in 1807, and having relied effectively on the power > > and might of the British Navy to enforce the ban against the traffic in > > human flesh, the British began to deal with domestic slavery among certain > > Gambian ethnic groups.Here again the term slavery was a source of > > conceptual difficulties in the dialogue between the Europeans and their > > African subjects.According to Peter Weil, one out of every six Gambians > > during this period was of slave origin. If we are to accept this sizable > > number , we can then see the magnitude of the British problem. The problem > > of "eliminating slavery" was accomplished in 1906 when the British had > > sufficient power to enforce their laws all over the Gambia.But what was > > called slavery was actually the patron/client relationship that existed > > between indebted and conquered persons or families.This pattern of social > > interaction has not changed and there are still "client persons and > > families." in the Gambian countryside.They are not slaves in the sense we > > understood slavery in pre-colonial times, nor are they part of the modern > > concept of waged labor (proletariat). They are closer to the European > > concept of serfs.But here again subtle differences exist and the student > > of Senegambian history must appreciate the metamorphosis that took place > > among the Cheddoes who switched loyalties from defeated Wolof and Tukulor > > ruling families to Senegambian marabouts. The devotion of certain tulab > > (students of Sufi masters) to their leaders and their willingness to work > > free of charge on their farms parallel the serfs of Europe. Both parties > > are willing to give service in exchange for protection. The European serf > > is socially better off than the slave of old,however, his master still > > exercises greater control over his freedom of social and physical > > mobility.The great difference between the African serf and the European > > lies in the fact that one seeks protection from the dangers of the state > > of nature,to use the language of the social contract theorists, and the > > other seeks guidance on the highway of life leading to Heaven.The European > > serf is protected by his master from the ravages of war, and the African > > is protected from the evil eye and the Satanic seductions which could > > block his access to Baraka.The fifth and last point to note here is that > > slavery should be globally condemned in any form. In this day and age > > the forms of slavery discussed above can only exist with state connivance. > > Just as we now fight uncompromisingly against any form of state or group > > terrorism, all of us in the international community must join hands in > > exposing, describing and condemning any and all manifestations of > > slavery.One of the main challenges of our coming century is is to put an > > end to all vestiges and manifestations of slavery, social discriminations > > and prejudices backed by state institutions.We can build a genuine > > global civilization when the fredoom of a child, a woman and a man > > can no longer become the plaything of an arrogant and repressive human > > being. > > Sulayman S. Nyang > > >
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Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 18:36:37 -0500 (EST) From: "Malanding S. Jaiteh" <msjaiteh@mtu.edu> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Cc: msjaiteh@mtu.edu Subject: Gambia educational Support Organization -final call for comments. Message-ID: <199712102336.SAA08751@oak.ffr.mtu.edu> Content-Type: X-sun-attachment
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This is a reminder that comments and suggestions on the Gambia Education Support Organization draft until Moday December 15. This is to allow time for drafting team to present the final draft on Dec 22.
I would encourage all to give it some of your valuable time and go through the document. The drafting team realized that your comments and suggestions can only make the draft a better one.
Thank You all.
malanding jaiteh
ps I will attach below the document for those do did not have a copy earlier. My apologies to those who had previous copy.
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Gambia Educational Support Organisation
I. Mission
The mission of the Gambia Educational Support Organisation is to provide assistance to Gambians and Gambian institutions in education in the Gambia. A vital part of the Organization's mission will be to become a medium through which intellectual, logistic and material resources of Gambians and friends of the Gambia can be utilized to improve education in the Gambia.
To this end, the Organization will:
Provide intellectual, material, logistic and other support to individuals and institutions in need at all levels of education in the Gambia.
Facilitate access to information and resources on education and research in the Gambia.
Improve coordination and communication among members to support education in the Gambia.
Develop and maintain a responsive and financially stable organization.
II. Organizational structure:
1. General Membership
Membership to the Organization is open to all(Gambians and non-Gambians). There shall be two categories of membership, voting-and non-voting members. Non-voting members are one-time contributors. Voting members will be required to pay annual membership fees as determined by the Organization. All voting members will have the right to vote and run for office. Members who fail to fulfill their obligations will cease to have the above rights.
2. Executive Committee
The Organisation will conduct its overall activity through the Executive Committee. The Executive Committee will oversee the planning and implementation of the Organization's activities. The Committee will be voted in every two years. It shall consist of the Executive Director, Deputy Executive Director, ex-Executive Director, three Zonal Coordinators (Gamabia, Europe and America), and a Financial Comptroller.
Executive Committee members and responsibilities
i. Executive Director The Executive Director is the Chief Executive Officer of the Organization and is: a) responsible for coordinating the Organization's efforts to fulfill its mission.
b) the principal liason officer between the Organization and others parties
c) carry out the responsibilities of any Executive Committee member who is unable to fulfil his/her duties until a replacement is named.
d) be a signatory to the Organizations account.
ii. Ex-Executive Director The responsibility of the ex-Executive Director shall be to facilitate smooth transition from one Executive Committees to another. The role is largely advisory and would only vote within the committee to break a tie.
iii. The Financial Comptroller Shall be the principal custodian of the Organization's funds. The Financial Comptroller responsibilities shall include, overseeing fundraisers; collection and disbursing funds; financial record keeping and regular reporting. He/she will be a signatory to the Organization's account.
iv. Zonal Coordinators Geographically the Organization will be divided to three zones: Europe, America and Gambia. Members in other regions can chose their zone of affliation at their convenience. Each zone will be run by a comittee of three to be led by a Zonal Coordinator. Zonal Coordinators will oversee Organizational activities in their zones and will act and speak on behave of their zones.
3. Ad hoc Committees (Working Committees) The Working Committee members will be appointed by the Executive Committee on need bases. The Working Committees will be technical working groups to prepare activity plans, or implement activities. The Working Committee will be disolved at the end of their assignment or at the discretion of the Executive Committee.
4. Financial/Fundraising Committee The Organizations will raise the necessary finances through membership fees, individual contributions and fundraisers. The Committee will be the Organization's official fundraiser. The committee shall coordinate all fundraising activities and will consist of three members and the Financial Comptroller as chair. The Committee will be charged with determining annual membership fees. If this Organization is dissolved all its net funds will be donated to an institution or institutions of its choice.
5. Election Committee A three member election committee shall be chosen by the general body every two years. Members of this committee cannot run for any other ofiice during their tenure as election officials. The committee shall prepare their own working document to be approved by the general membership. They will be independent from other committees in the Organization and will have final say in on election results.
6. Audit Unit
This unit will help ensure that the organization's funds are used as specified. The unit will comprise of a Chairperson and two committee members. Members of the committee will be voted every two years and shall not concurrently hold any other positions within the organization. The unit will prepare its own operational document t be approved by the General mambership.
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Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 18:41:01 -0500 (EST) From: "Malanding S. Jaiteh" <msjaiteh@mtu.edu> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Cc: msjaiteh@mtu.edu Subject: Gambia Educational Support Plan -final call for comments Message-ID: <199712102341.SAA08756@oak.ffr.mtu.edu> Content-Type: X-sun-attachment
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This is part two of the Gambia Educational Support Plan for comments and suggestions. Comments can be directed to the List or to msjaiteh@mtu.edu
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Document Two
Activity Plan.
Focus 1: Program for Institutions in Education .
The long-term goal of this focus is to help upgrade library and laboratory facilities(including computer) facilities in selected schools and intitutions. The activities will be implemented concurrently. With some initiatives already being discussed every effort will be made to make those the priority. These are the Gambia College Library and Coputer facilities initiative and the Give-a-book drive.
Activity 1.1 Gambia College library support
Several members have reported the need for a more up-to-date Library Gambia College. The Primary objective of ths activity is to provide the College Library with basic textbooks and other Reference material. To achieve this objective it is suggested that:
each member to contribute at least one book and $US10 for shipping and handling each year.
each Zone will be resposible for collection and shipping to the Gambia.
that the organization approach agencies and other bodies for assistance in transportation of these books.
Activity 1.2 Computer facility upgrade The objective of this activity is to donate 10 computers to Gambia College, the National Library system and secondary schools in the Country over a 5 year period.
This will include: 5 Pentium based Multi-media Pcs @ $1500 = $7500 5 x86 PCs (preferably used) @ $750 = $3750 5 Bubble jet printers @ $500 = $2500
Activity 1.3 School classroom support The aim of this activity is to provide classroom materials and textbooks to selected Primary and Junior Secondary schools each. Primary School 5000 Pencils 5000 erasers 2000 sharperners 2000 rulers 2000 color pencils 2000 crayons 500 textbooks 50 teachers guides
Focus 2: Program for Individual Development The goal of this is to support students in need. To achieve this, the organization will provide financial assistance through short grants and scholarships, stationery and book award to students in financial difficulties. The organization will set up a Students Advisory and Mentorship Program to advice students.
Activity 2.1 Adopt a student/pupil The organization's objective is to sponsor 10 students, 5 at Primary and 5 at Secondary Schooleach years. These sponsorship could range from one time payment of bills to payment of tuition and books. Recipients will have to demonstrate they are in considerable financial hardship. The Gambia Zonal Co-ordinator will in consultation with the rest of the Executive Committee oversee selection of recipients and disbursement of funds.
Current cost of funding 5 Secondary School students at $150 per student per year amounts to $750. Cost of funding Primary school students is estimated at $50 per student per year. This amounts to $250 per year. This amount may change each year due ti changes in the cost of living.
Cost of 1 year sponsorship.
5 Student @ $150 - $750 5 Pupils @ $50 = $250
Starting 1999, competitions will be supported in essay writing, science and art projects and award granted. Awards in these competitions will be in the form of one-time awards.
Activity 2.1 Mentorship and Guidance activity
It is the belief that members of this Organization are notable role models to many Gambian students in the Gambia. The purpose of this activity is to take advantage of this possibility and to established contact between students particularly Senior Secondary school students in the Gambia andmembers of this organization. The activity will also focus on aadvising students on matters such as careers, courses, Standardized exams and study abroad. A Working Committe to compile guidelines on careers, scholarships and study abroad.
Focus 3: Education Information Pragram A comprehensive information on education in the Gambia is vital for planning and development of the educational system. The goal of this focus is to facilitate access to basic information on eduction in the Gambia such as school enrolment, student-teacher ratio, as well as laboratory and classroom facilities. This information will make this infromation available to individuals and organizations that may not have access to the internet. It is hoped that easy access to such data would assist planners and organizations interested in hte development of Gambian education.
Activity 3.1 Develop and maintain an Internet Education Resource Center for the Gambia The primary objective of this activity is to develop a HomePage to publish basic information database on education in the Gambia. The directory will contain information on school enrollment; number of teachers and qualification; The database will contain information on all schools from Primaty to Higher Edcuation Institutions.
Primary Schools Year No. of Classrooms No. of students No. of Teachers (uncertified and certified) student-textbook ratio
Secondary Schools Year No. of classrooms no. of students no. of teachers(qualification) student-textbook ratio
Higher Institutions No. of classrooms no. of students No. of teachers(qualification) Programs offered
A database of Gambians professonals abroad The purpose of this is to develop and maintain a database on Gambian professionals around the world. It is hoped that employers in the Gambia will use the database a resource pool. It is important to note that entries in this database will be purely voluntary and will include names, profession(or intended profession), and contact address.
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Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 20:19:53 PST From: "latjor ndow" <latjor@hotmail.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: new member Message-ID: <19971211041953.27985.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain
Greetings:
Gabriel D. Mendy has been added to the list. Welcome to our bantaba and please send a brief introduction of your self to the list. Our address is: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
LatJor
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Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 20:31:05 PST From: "sillah conateh" <sillahconateh@hotmail.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Is It In Our Nature? Message-ID: <199712110431.UAA29468@f134.hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain
Dear fellow gambians,
I would also like to add my "buree and nyata" to what Mr. Momodou Camara contributed to Momodou Buhari Gassama's topic " Is it our Nature"? Here in Malaysia also, the Gambian community is rapidly increasing and there is no element of disorderliness. Everybody is well- behaved and we are also engaged in programmes which enhance co-operation among us.At such programmes, we always remind one another to respect the laws of Malaysia and to behave as decent Gambian citizens who are all goodwill ambassadors of our country. This has worked very positive and Mr. Camara also mentioned something like this. So briefly, I would say Gambians are not regarded as the most disorganised society in most of the foreign countries.
I would also want to advise fellow Gambians to always respect the laws of the lands wherever they may find themselves to prevent humiliation.
>From the Famous Demba Conta's album United States of Africa, the track " Gambian Children", he did say there:
Gambian children Don't let be pitinised Don't let be humiliated.
So do not attempt to do things which may tarnish the good image of the Gambians as very civilised, less troublesome and law-abiding.
I thank Mr. Camara for his brilliant contribution to the issue. I also appreciate Mr. Buhari Gassama for bringing up this type of issues. Thank you Mr.Gassama.
Best of luck to all Gambians in their endeavours.
Sillah Conateh.
>From gambia-l-owner@u.washington.edu Wed Dec 10 13:41:45 1997 >Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) > by lists2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP > id NAA15673; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 13:28:05 -0800 >Received: from mxu1.u.washington.edu (mxu1.u.washington.edu [140.142.32.8]) > by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP > id NAB15142 for <gambia-l@lists.u.washington.edu>; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 13:27:40 -0800 >Received: from cgi.inet.tele.dk (cgi.inet.tele.dk [194.182.149.95]) > by mxu1.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with SMTP > id NAA02480 for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 13:27:36 -0800 >Received: (qmail 28962 invoked from network); 10 Dec 1997 21:27:23 -0000 >Received: from post3.tele.dk (194.239.134.166) > by cgi.inet.tele.dk with SMTP; 10 Dec 1997 21:27:23 -0000 >Received: from momodou ([194.239.136.109]) by post3.tele.dk > (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAA18954 > for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Wed, 10 Dec 1997 22:27:19 +0100 >Message-Id: <19971210212711.AAA18954@momodou> >Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 22:26:48 +0200 >Reply-To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu >Sender: GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu >Precedence: bulk >From: momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou) >To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> >Subject: Re: Is It In Our Nature? >In-Reply-To: <34890E85.2E92@swipnet.se> >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by lists2.u.washington.edu id NAA15673 > >Greetings, >Here is my few bututs to this topic. > >On 6 Dec 97 at 0:36, MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA wrote: > >> Hi! >> I have always wondered why we as Gambians are one of most >> disorganised group of foreigners in all the countries I have been to >> outside Gambia.=20 > >I do not quite agree with this statement because I have been told=20 >several times by other Africans I meet here that we Gambians are=20 >among the most organised African groups here in Scandinavia. The=20 >Gambian Organizations in Stockholm (OGIS), The Gambian Organization=20 >in Oslo and The Gambian Society in Denmark have a long relationship=20 >of cooperation over the last 15 years or more. The organizations have=20 >football tournaments yearly during the summer which even makes >other countries envious. I don't know if you are aware that he are=20 >visiting each other every year and the Copenhagen team has always=20 >been unbeatable:-))) > >Here in Denmark, the Gambian Society was the first African=20 >Organization to establish their own premises ( lokale) for many years=20 >until it was later closed because of circumstances. We still have=20 >only one organization which is not based on any tribal or political=20 >lines. Although it is dormant until someone dies, national day=20 >celebrations like independence and the usual summer football=20 >tournaments. So our situation is not that hopeless. > >I can see your point too but we must understand that even in Gambia,=20 >we have different political parties and associations. > >>Why we have difficulties setting up cohesive and >> representative organisations. Why in Atlanta (when I lived there) >> and in G=F6teborg here in Sweden we have organizations or nightclubs >> for Wollofs and others for Mandinkas. > >I do agree with you here that there are cities where there are=20 >associations based on backward tribal lines. These associations are=20 >mostly lead by people who always hide behind lies and manipulation. > >During the mid 1980s, we were invited to a football match in G=F6teborg=20 >(Gothenburg). The day before we left someone called to our chairman=20 >and said that we were invited by a tribalist organization.=20 >In spite of that, we went and to my surprise the association=20 >consisted of Wollofs, Mandinkas, Akus, Fullas and a few other=20 >nationalities from Africa.=20 > >It was later that we realized that there were two organizations=20 >there. My opinion is that these organizations were divided because of=20 >political reasons. I might be wrong!!=20 > > >> Why it is difficult to accept it >> when one of us prospers. Why we report fellow Gambians who overstay >> their visas instead of helping them. Why we refuse to patronise >> Gambians who set up businesses. > >Because they think he/she will become too rich and build a house=20 >bigger than theirs in Gambia:-))))) > >> Why we involve in petty squabbles >> and fights, backbiting, "taysantays" etc. instead of channelling our >> energies towards endeavours that can improve our lot both in Babylon >> and back home. Why we .... >> Is it in our nature to be jealous? Is it in our nature to be >> disorganised? Is it in our nature to petty? OR, are we just lost? >> Buharry. > >These are very important questions to ask and I thank you for your=20 >courage in bringing this topic. =20 > >Peace >Momodou Camara > > >******************************************************* > http://home3.inet.tele.dk/mcamara > >**"Start by doing what's necessary, then what's > possible and suddenly you are doing the impossible"*** >
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Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 05:01:36 EST From: Mbk007 <Mbk007@aol.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Is It In Our Nature? The Crab or PHD Syndrome Message-ID: <c7bb401.348fba02@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
The points you mentioned are very convincing, but most of the Ph.D. syndrome you talked about is or in most cases being used to justify some of our own failures in life. Not to say you belived in it. Don't you see how such honors have been translated? Yes there are a few rotten ones around, but please brother man; tell those people you worked with that the crab is too weak to crawls and too slow to drag you down (think positive). With the Gambia situation, change was due, but military change was not the solution. Military change brings about nothing, but "reporting on each other, ill-wishing each other, the eagerness for one another's misfortune within families, neighborhoods, etc" (you). Things might seem to look good for now, but how would you feel when the military could at any time take over just because they have weapons ( this fear is why military takeovers should not be encouraged at all). The purpose of the ballot is to enable us to speak and change when necessary. The military likewise is to defend the interest of the country. You can say that's what the military just did, but where do we draw the line, and when will we as a democratic country (hopefully we are one) tell the military to respect our decisions (THE PPP PARTY WAS A DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED GOVERNMENT BY THE PEOPLE OF THE GAMBIA). Are you saying that we are too weak to say, or do the same thing (change wise) the military did in a forceful way? More power to Jammeh and his people, but I hope that someday, somewhere; somebody will let the peoples' voice stand (the ballot). Democracy lets you vote bad governments out of office, and the bullet (military take over in most cases) just brings endless humiliation and abuse of power. Let the military governments in Africa speak for themselves. Watch out for all those so called now foreign friends we have at home.
This is a bantaba discussion and nothing against the Jammeh regime.
NB: hopefully this is the beginning of a very GENTLE DISCUSSION.
M.B.Krubally.
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Date: Thu, 11 Dec 97 11:34:16 EST From: Mamadi Corra <MKCORRA@VM.SC.EDU> To: Gambia-l <GAMBIA-L@U.WASHINGTON.EDU> Subject: Wolof Expressions Request Message-ID: <199712111653.IAA04889@mx5.u.washington.edu>
Hello Folks: An African American friend that I recently met is going on a trip t o Senegal to the Gorreh Islands next week. He requested that I write some Wolo f expressions (basic) that might be helpful to know (such as basic greetings, e tc.) and english translations for them. I am in the process of doing this. Ho wever, I thought perhaps some on this list might have some more expressions to supliment what I am writting. If anyone has some Wolof expressions translated and is willing to help in this regard by e-mailling them to me I should appreci ate it (if e-mailable). I know some on this list have been involved in somethi ng like this before and many would certainly do a better job in it than I would as to translation in english. The guy is very enthusiastic about this trip and anyone that can help in this regard will be appreciated (particularly Wolof with the Senegalese twist to it: preferably but any would be highly appreciat ed). You can e-mail me directly at: Mkcorra@vm.sc.edu; thanks all!
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Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 11:32:09 -0600 From: Keretha Cash <kcash@RBVDNR.com> To: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>, gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: RE: Wolof Expressions Request Message-ID: <199712111732.JAA03537@mx4.u.washington.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BD0628.857F8FB0"
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I would also be interested in receiving any translations that have been created. You may email them to me directly at kcash@rbvdnr.com. Thanks in advance.
> ---------- > From: Mamadi Corra[SMTP:MKCORRA@VM.SC.EDU] > Reply To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 1997 10:34 AM > To: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List > Subject: Wolof Expressions Request > > Hello Folks: > An African American friend that I recently met is going on > a trip to Senegal to the Gorreh Islands next week. He requested that > I write some Wolof expressions (basic) that might be helpful to know > (such as basic greetings, etc.) and english translations for them. I > am in the process of doing this. However, I thought perhaps some on > this list might have some more expressions to supliment what I am > writting. If anyone has some Wolof expressions translated and is > willing to help in this regard by e-mailling them to me I should > appreciate it (if e-mailable). I know some on this list have been > involved in something like this before and many would certainly do a > better job in it than I would as to translation in english. The guy > is very enthusiastic about this trip and anyone that can help in this > regard will be appreciated (particularly Wolof with the Senegalese > twist to it: preferably but any would be highly appreciated). You > can e-mail me directly at: Mkcorra@vm.sc.edu; thanks all! > >
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Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 18:54:08 -0800 From: MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA <m.gassama@swipnet.se> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: SV: Is It In Our Nature? Message-ID: <3490A750.209F@swipnet.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Sidibeh! I am aware of the fact that you are the General Secretary of the OGIS. Please accept my apology if you feel that I have been unfair to the OGIS. The part about Stockholm is not a negation of your efforts but a reflection of the difficulty in organising ourselves here, the negativity and the bickering that goes on amongst us. I am aware of the sacrifices one has to make for the organisation. I was convinced by Papa Jeng when he was elected the organisation=B4s president to be on the Interim Financial Committee together with Reese, Dembo Ceesay, Alieu Maculey etc. to go through the organisation=B4s papers to get things in order before he took over. Our report should be in the organisation=B4s papers. This was just before I went to England to study. Since I came back, I have been trying to get my dissertation going coupled with work. This plus the fact that one hardly hears about the organisation. It was only a few days ago that I was filled in as to the organisation=B4s plans=
etc. and I volunteered to help out in a forthcoming project. I am aware of the meeting you are talking about. (BTW, Alieu Macauley wants you to contact him. He needs some papers related to the meeting. I was supposed to send you an e-mail to this effect some 3 days ago but it slipped my mind) Have a good weekend. Thanks. Buharry.
P.S. Thanks Moe, Yaikah, Sailey and others for the encouraging words. D.S. -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
Momodou S Sidibeh wrote: > =
> Buharry, > For your information, I am current general secretary of the Organizatio= n of > Gambians in Stockholm. While I fully agree that the questions you raise= d > are probably one of the most important, your criticism of the OGIS I th= ink > is unfair. Even unfairer is the comparison with either the Ugandans or = the > Eritreans. > I shall shortly inform this forum about a meeting to be held here > (Stockholm) soon. But until I first inform the paying members (of which= you > are not one - unfortunately), I must beg everyone else to wait. > Nevertheless I shall be more than willing to contribute to this discuss= ion > and even answer any questions whatsoever, such as may eventually be rai= sed > - as long as I am able to obtain time to do so. > =
> Cheers, > Momodou Sidibeh, Stockholm/Kartong. > =
> ---------- > >
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 16:22:42 -0500 (EST) From: "Malanding S. Jaiteh" <msjaiteh@mtu.edu> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu, sbn13@cad.canterbury.ac.nz Subject: Re: introduction Message-ID: <199712112122.QAA09033@oak.ffr.mtu.edu>
Welcome to the List Saikou.
Malanding another BaddibungKo and a Jaiteh
> From GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu Wed Dec 3 22:48:15 1997 > Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 16:47:33 -0800 > From: Saikou B M Njai <sbn13@cad.canterbury.ac.nz> > To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> > Subject: introduction > MIME-version: 1.0 > Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN > > Thanks for adding me to the list. > > I am Saikou Njai. I was born in Farafenni. I went to Farafenni Primary > and Muslim High school respectively. I sat to the O'Level in 1981. > Attended Telecommunications Training center in 1981. Worked with the > department of Water Resources from 1982 to 1989. 1989 to present working > with soil and water management unit, department of agric. > I got my B.Sc. at Eastern Kentucky University in 1994. I am now studying > for Master of Engineering Management( MEM ) at the University of > Canterbury, New Zealand. > I am here with my wife, Oumi Jaiteh, from Kartong. > > I would love to hear from my former school mates or co-workers. > > sincerely > > Saikou B M Njai > > Dept. of Civil Engineering > University of Canterbury > PMB 4800, Christchurch > N Z > > Email- sbn13@CAD.Canterbury.ac.nz >
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Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 17:20:13 -0500 From: habib <hghanim@erols.com> To: Gambia-l@u.washington.edu Cc: gampatriots@corp.sun.com Subject: Babading Sissoho Message-ID: <3490671D.5E13@erols.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Today while talking to a friend of mine in the Gambia,I was told that Mr Sissoho ,the Malian-Gambian millionaire had a very large and warm welcome in Banjul with jubilations everywhere. He promised to help The Gambia a lot of money in the improvements of the Airport and related projects. This is good news for the Gambian business community and confidence building of the country. I hope he will keep his promise . The more the investment money, the better for us. He also gave the soccer teams of Gambia and Mali much needed financial help.
Habib Ghanim
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Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 23:46:03 PST From: "Momodou Camara" <nijii@hotmail.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Babading Sissoho Message-ID: <19971212074603.8430.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain
> >Today while talking to a friend of mine in the Gambia,I was told that Mr >Sissoho ,the Malian-Gambian millionaire had a very large and warm >welcome in Banjul with jubilations everywhere. He promised to help The >Gambia a lot of money in the improvements of the Airport and related >projects. This is good news for the Gambian business community and >confidence building of the country. I hope he will keep his promise . >The more the investment money, the better for us. >He also gave the soccer teams of Gambia and Mali much needed financial >help. > >Habib Ghanim >
It is stated in one of the FOROYAA issues recently that Mr. Sissoho ows four million dalasis to the Gambia including the Civil Aviation.
Momodou Camara
______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 10:27:48 -0500 (EST) From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Dr. Nyang's response on slavery Message-ID: <9712121527.AA25044@st6000.sct.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Dr. Nyang,
Some very interesting points indeed!
Thank you for responding to my enquiry about slavery in Africa. As always, it is very refreshing to note your familiarity with the history of ancient and modern Africa. I thank you kindly for taking the time to propagate African history (from the ancient times to the present) through our minds.
Regards, Moe S. Jallow ========================================================================== mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com --------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 11:31:39 -0500 (EST) From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Subcription Message-ID: <9712121631.AA44460@st6000.sct.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Sarian wrote:
> All, > > Kumba Secka & Fatoumata Taal have been added to the list. Welcome aboard ladies > and please send in your intros to gambia-l@u.washington.edu.
Welcome to Gambia-L ladies. Hope you gain a fruitful experience while you are members.
Good luck!
Brother Moe
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Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 18:26:49 -0500 From: habib <hghanim@erols.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Babading Sissoho Message-ID: <3491C839.503B@erols.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Momodou Camara wrote: > > > > >Today while talking to a friend of mine in the Gambia,I was told that > Mr > >Sissoho ,the Malian-Gambian millionaire had a very large and warm > >welcome in Banjul with jubilations everywhere. He promised to help The > >Gambia a lot of money in the improvements of the Airport and related > >projects. This is good news for the Gambian business community and > >confidence building of the country. I hope he will keep his promise . > >The more the investment money, the better for us. > >He also gave the soccer teams of Gambia and Mali much needed financial > >help. > > > >Habib Ghanim > > > > It is stated in one of the FOROYAA issues recently that Mr. Sissoho ows > four million dalasis to the Gambia including the Civil Aviation. > > Momodou Camara > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Holly Cow!!! What is going on ?? Momodou Camara if this is true then all this is just a big show. But if his bill is normally that high then it could only be fair to access it based on when he usually pays his bills(annually or monthly.) Hopefully he does, otherwise it is a different story. Some companies have big payables and receivables, so for the benefit of the doubt, let's first find out before we pass jugdment. Habib -- MZ
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Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 20:53:31 -0500 From: "Pa-Mambuna O. Bojang" <paomar@iglou.com> To: "gambia-l@u.washington.edu" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: [Fwd: Fwd: Bill Gates:Free Money (fwd)] Message-ID: <3491EA9A.BECC38C0@iglou.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------1A361BBC3D6E6D9A3977E16D"
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Return-path: <ewboss0@pop.uky.edu> Envelope-to: paomar@iglou.com Delivery-date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 17:17:52 -0500 Received: from smtp.uky.edu [128.163.1.168] by iglou.com with esmtp (8.7.3/8.6.12) id 0xfBUr-0005EA-00; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 17:17:49 -0500 Received: from pop.uky.edu (pop.uky.edu [128.163.1.174]) by smtp.uky.edu (8.8.4/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA10040 for <paomar@iglou.com>; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 17:18:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from [128.163.74.178] ([128.163.74.178]) by pop.uky.edu (8.8.4/(UKY.POP.1.4)) with ESMTP id RAA21234 for <paomar@iglou.com>; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 17:15:35 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <v03007803b0b22254a107@[128.163.74.178]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="============_-1330503071==_============" Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 17:16:56 -0500 To: paomar@iglou.com From: "Etta W. Boss-Cole" <ewboss0@pop.uky.edu> Subject: Fwd: Bill Gates:Free Money (fwd)
--============_-1330503071==_============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Date: Mon, 08 Dec 97 13:45:35 -0600 >From: "Olivia I Thomas"<othomas@allina.com> >To: <ewboss0@pop.uky.edu>, <othomas@talent_sws.com>, <sali@talent_sws.com>, > <thomam02@tigger.stcloud.msus.edu>, > <jeff_w_weeks_at_ccpo2802@smtpgate.allina.com>, > <brad_d_myrvold_at_ccpo2802@smtpgate.allina.com> >Subject: Fwd: Bill Gates:Free Money (fwd) >MIME-Version: 1.0 > > > > > >
--============_-1330503071==_============ Content-Type: text/plain; name="janna.txt"; charset="us-ascii" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="janna.txt"
> > > > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 09:52:59 -0600 (CST) >From: Gams <gammell@mhd1.moorhead.msus.edu> >To: Gams <gammell@mhd1.moorhead.msus.edu> >Subject: Bill Gates:Free Money > > >> > Hello everybody, >> > My name is Bill Gates. I have just written up an e-mail tracing >> program >> > that traces everyone to whom this message is forwarded to. I am >> > experimenting with this and I need your help. Forward this to >> everyone >> > you know and if it reaches 1000 people everyone on the list will >> receive >> > $1000 at my expense. Enjoy. >> > Your friend, >> > Bill Gates >> > --Boundary (ID HTRXijdMVBrw21Hvpkl89w)-- >
--============_-1330503071==_============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
*************************************************** Etta W. Boss-Cole "Everyone should have a dream." University of Kentucky - Jesse Owens College of Medicine Lexington, KY 40536
ewboss0@pop.uky.edu ***************************************************
--============_-1330503071==_============--
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Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 00:23:59 -0500 (EST) From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Babading Sissoho Message-ID: <9712130524.AA21836@st6000.sct.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Habib, you wrote:
> Today while talking to a friend of mine in the Gambia,I was told that Mr > Sissoho ,the Malian-Gambian millionaire had a very large and warm > welcome in Banjul with jubilations everywhere. He promised to help The > Gambia a lot of money in the improvements of the Airport and related > projects. This is good news for the Gambian business community and > confidence building of the country. I hope he will keep his promise . > The more the investment money, the better for us. > He also gave the soccer teams of Gambia and Mali much needed financial > help. > > Habib Ghanim
This Sissoho guy seems pretty amusing. I mean, not only is he a millionaire (in US dollars), he is also a humanist as shown by his actions (as in the Florida donation). I even remember reading articles about his influence on some US senators who were amazed as to how he amassed his fortune. Man, he must be rich if he can impress the US that much by throwing dollars around as if it were nobody's business. If he is a true businessman, I wonder if he tried to convince Bill Gates that business in Africa is not too bad :-))). But who really is this man, and what is his connection with the Gambia (or should I say President Jammeh?)? How did he become qualified to be a dual citizen of both Gambia and Mali? Better yet, how did he obtain diplomatic status for the representation of the Gambia?
I would really like to read millionaire Sissoho's biographical information if it is obtainable. Certainly, any millionaire would have some information written about him or her. Does anyone have such information on Mr. Sossoho they wish to share?
Regards, Moe S. Jallow ========================================================================= mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- PS Brother Habib, please update me on the "Let's do it" project.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 03:51:04 -0800 From: lamin Jaiteh <ljaiteh@mail.wsu.edu> To: gambia-L@u.washington.edu Subject: introduction Message-ID: <349276A8.10E@mail.wsu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------3CA1529C6295"
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X-Mozilla-Status: 0001 Message-ID: <349244BA.4BD9@mail.wsu.edu> Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 00:18:02 -0800 From: lamin Jaiteh <ljaiteh@mail.wsu.edu> X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ganbia_1@u.washington.edu Subject: (no subject) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hi, My name is Lamin Jaiteh(Tenn Boi) from Kartong. I graduated from Saint Augustine's and Gambia high in '88 and '90 respectively. I then attended Gamtel Training school from '90 to 92 before coming to Washington State. I am now study Electrical Engineering at Washington State U. here in Pullman. I would love to hear from friends, relatives former classmates etc.
Tenn.
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Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 04:02:11 -0800 From: lamin Jaiteh <ljaiteh@mail.wsu.edu> To: gambia-L@u.washington.edu Subject: introduction Message-ID: <34927943.46C@mail.wsu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hi, My name is Lamin Jaiteh (Tenn Boi) from Kartong. I graduated from Saint Augustine's and Gambia high in '88 and '90 respectively. I attended Gamtel Training school from '90 to '92 before coming to the U.S. I am now studying Electrical Engineering at Washington State U. here in Pullman. I would love to hear from friends,relatives, former classmates etc. Tenn. --
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Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 12:24:58 -0400 (AST) From: Fafa Sanyang <fsanyang@is2.dal.ca> To: Gambia-L <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: Christmas Greetings Message-ID: <Pine.A41.3.95.971213121823.203832C-100000@is2.dal.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Hello Friends,
I am sending my warmest Christmas greetings to all in the Bantaba, praying for your long life, good health and prosperity. May Allah make you see through and continue your good work in 1998 and beyond.May Allah keep us away from the dangers of tribalism.
Thanks
Fafa Sanyang
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Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 19:25:53 -0800 From: MOMODOU BUHARRY GASSAMA <m.gassama@swipnet.se> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: John =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bojang=B4s?= Meeting With The Gambian Community In Stockholm Message-ID: <349351C1.875@swipnet.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi! Momodou Sidibeh who currently because of technical difficulties cannot access Gambia-l asked me to relay the following information. It is about the Gambia=B4s High Commissioner to the United Kingdom=B4s visit= to Stockholm. Commissioner John Bojang will hold a meeting with the Gambian community in Stockholm.
DATE: Thursday, 18th. December 1997 PLACE: Brygghuset, Samlingshall 36, Norrtullsgatan 12, Odenplan TIME: 17.30 - 20.30
All who can attend are encouraged to do so. Please spread the word. Thanks. Buharry.
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Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 14:07:01 EST From: ABA LM <ABALM@aol.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: introduction Message-ID: <1acfd688.3492dcd8@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Hi tenn, I am one of your former classmate. My name is Abba Sanneh. Welcome to gambia-l. I hope to hear from you sometime. Abba
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Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 21:16:15 +0200 From: momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: New Member Message-ID: <19971213201641.AAA12324@momodou> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Greetings, Mr. Baboucar Sallah has been added to the Bantaba. Welcome to Gambia-l, we look forward to your contributions. You can send a brief introduction to the list. Our address is gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Momodou Camara
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Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 22:56:36 +0200 From: momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: The case of Babanding Fatty - Compensation after seven years Message-ID: <19971213215703.AAA10904@momodou> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Babanding Fatty, a Gambian who had been maltreated in a Danish prison will now finally get a large sum as compensation.
Most Gambians living in Scandinavia must have remembered the documentary about this case shown on the Danish, Norwegian and Swedish TV stations.
According to a Danish daily Aktuelt of friday 12th December 1997, both Babanding Fatty's lawyer and the Justice Ministry anticipate concluding the seven year old case by next week.
After more than seven years tug-of -war it seems likely that the case of Mr.Fatty will come to an end. The case will probably end with Babanding receiving a six-figure number as the compensation for the lasting injury and lost of ability to work.
The lawyer had informed the newspaper that he had a meeting with the Justice Ministry last thursday and there seems to be an amicable settlement. Now that all the loose ends seems to be in place.
The lawyer demanded One million kroners (about 1.55 million dalasis) for his Gambian client. He is now ready to reduce the amount inorder to conclude the case. He has got permission from Mr. Fatty to cut the demand down inorder to finish the case.
Babanding Fatty came to Denmark on the 19th October 1990 as a peaceful tourist who should visit a relative. Instead, he was arrested at Kastrup Airport because of a misunderstanding about his money (according to the police). A mistake which the police admitted later. He had 30.000 Senegalese francs which according to the police was not sufficient for his stay in Denmark.
Babanding's nightmare began when he was taken to the Copenhagen police prison after ten hours of his detention at the airport, where he was beaten up by the prison personnel. He only spoke Wollof and Mandinka and there was no translator for him to know what he has done wrong and why he was there. He was beaten more than 20 times with a lead filled cudgel in the regions of his kidneys and on his vertebral column. His face was many times covered with a blanket so that he could not see those beating him. He was several times seen by the prison doctor who wrote in the case sheet that "The patient is in an agony of fear, desperate and in crises. Suicidal danger cannot be ruled out". It was sixteen hours after his arrival in Denmark that he got the chance to communicate through a translator because he only spoke Mandinka and Wollof. He was later released and left Denmark on the 9. November 1990 as a very depressed man.
The case had been taken to the Parliament's Ombudsman which resulted in a 233 page report by a magistrate in march 1992. The case had placed Denmark for the first time in the report of Amnesty International and in 1993 there was an official apology by the then Justice Minister Erling Olsen to Babanding Fatty.
A few months later a court in Copenhagen ruled that Babanding should get a compensation of sixty thousand kroners.
Later at a meeting in June 1995 between the Lawyer Lars Dinesen and the Justice Ministry, it was agreed that Babanding should get the above amount of sixty thousand danish kroners (about 93.000 Dalasis) payment on account.
The case had lasted a long time now and both parties had waited for a new medical report from both The Gambia and Denmark. Lately, the Danish Doctors Union refused to make a new medical examination of Babanding seven years after the incident. They have instead recommended that the case be concluded now.
"I take this recommendation from the Doctors Union as a suggestion to end these exhausting medical examinations" says the lawyer. and continues: "We should accept the fact that we cannot get a concluding medical examination with the help of Danish doctors about Babanding's physical and psychical condition".
Since the dramatic episode in October 1997, Babanding who is now 36 years old is unable to work and still has severe depressions.
Sources in the Justice Ministry confirmed that the case will probably be concluded next week with a large amount of compensation to Babanding Fatty.
Source: Aktuelt Friday December 12. 1997 ______________________________________________________ PS: English is not my daily language of communication.
Momodou Camara
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Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 16:35:40 -0600 (CST) From: Paul Jammeh <st2063@student-mail.jsu.edu> To: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: introduction Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.971213162331.9148A-100000@student-mail.jsu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Hey Ten Boy, I want to take this opportunity to welcome you aboard The Gambian Bantaba. I have been looking for a way of communicating with you for the longest of times, but to no avail. I will personally write you a private e-mail when exams are over. Until then, enjoy the burning issues of the bantaba and send in your attractive contributions. Have a good day :0) Peace, Paul Jammeh (Darsilami)
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Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 15:06:47 +1200 From: Saikou B M Njai <sbn13@cad.canterbury.ac.nz> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: introduction Message-ID: <8F24D66491@cad.canterbury.ac.nz>
Hi Lamin,
I am not sure wether you know me or not but you are a relative of my wife. My wife is Oumi Taye Jaiteh from Kartong. She is presently living with me in New Zealand. I am studying for Master of Engineering Management at the University of Canterbury. Are you intouch with Bangura? I wish you success in your studies. Keep in touch.
Yours Saikou BM Njai Dept of Civil Engineering University of Canterbury PMB 4800 Christchurch, NZ
Saikou B M Njai Postgraduate Student Room E311 Department of Civil Engineering University of Canterbury P M B 4800 Christchurch,N Z
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Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 21:47:00 -0500 From: Astrid Christensen-Tasong via the Virtual Florist <attatas@hotmail.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Virtual Flower Bouquet Delivery Message-ID: <199712140247.VAA20016@www18.hway.net>
Gambia List,
This message is to inform you that Astrid Christensen-Tasong has created a Virtual Flower Bouquet(tm) for you at the Virtual Florist(sm) web site.
Your Virtual Flower Bouquet can be viewed anytime during the next two weeks by connecting your World Wide Web browser to the following URL:
http://www.virtualflorist.com/pickup?MER8842
If you have difficulty getting to this URL, or do not have access to a web browser, then send an e-mail to "help@virtualflorist.com" and our mail system will send an automated reply with a more detailed set of instructions.
Enjoy your flowers!
The Virtual Florist
____________________________________________________________________
Please send any replies to: attatas@hotmail.com The originator of this item was logged into IP Address 166.55.78.2 at 21:47 EST. ____________________________________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 16:04:23 +1200 From: Saikou B M Njai <sbn13@cad.canterbury.ac.nz> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Is It In Our Nature? The Crab or PHD Syndrome Message-ID: <901B1724F9@cad.canterbury.ac.nz>
I wish to thank all the brothers for their comments and observations on this topic. However, We must realise that democracy or a just society does not come easy. We often make the mistake of comparing africa with Europe and the USA. Those countries started a long way from where they are now. Democracy does not mean election only. A lot of elected governments in Africa are more terrible than military governments. I think what Africa needs is awareness. But, alas most of us who are aware decide to live away. We are not willing to sacrifice our lives and / or comfort to change what is happenning. If the competent ones run way from the job; someone else will have to take charge. History teaches us that Democracy and justice can only come through sacrifice of some people. The point is not wether a government is elected or not but wether or not it is runnig in the interest of the people. Saikou B M Njai Postgraduate Student Room E311 Department of Civil Engineering University of Canterbury P M B 4800 Christchurch,N Z
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Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 22:18:42 -0800 From: Paul <bgibba@interlog.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_John_Bojang=B4s_Meeting_With_The_Gambian_?= Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19971213221842.00689f5c@mail.interlog.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi! Mr. Buharry,
I wish I could attend that meeting. John was one of my best teachers at St. Edwards Secondary School (Bwiam). May they have a happy and successful meeting. Bakary Paul Gibba.
At 07:25 PM 12/13/97 -0800, you wrote: >Hi! > Momodou Sidibeh who currently because of technical difficulties >cannot access Gambia-l asked me to relay the following information. It >is about the Gambia=B4s High Commissioner to the United Kingdom=B4s visit= to >Stockholm. Commissioner John Bojang will hold a meeting with the Gambian >community in Stockholm. > >DATE: Thursday, 18th. December 1997 >PLACE: Brygghuset, Samlingshall 36, Norrtullsgatan 12, Odenplan >TIME: 17.30 - 20.30 > >All who can attend are encouraged to do so. Please spread the word. >Thanks. > Buharry. > >
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Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 23:19:35 -0500 From: nahak@juno.com (Michael J Gomez) To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Article published in the Observer in 1995. Written BY Michael B.B.J. Gomez Message-ID: <19971213.231937.4038.0.nahak@juno.com>
Please enjoy and have fun.
July 30, 1995 PREPARING THE GAMBIA FOR THE TWENTY-FIRST CENTURY Elections, alone, do not constitute democracy. We Gambians must be prepared and educate one another on elections and what democracy is all about. Are we believers of religion in The Gambia, or nonbelievers? If we are true believers of God, whether following Prophet Mohammed, Jesus Christ, Baha'i la or any other religion, we must realize we have to practice honesty, dedication and self-responsibility. "For a good tree bringth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes. A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringth forth that which is evil: for the abundance of the heart his mouth speakest." (St. Luke, Chapter 6, verses 43-45, the Holy Bible) "Muhammad is the Apostle of Allah, and those with him are firm of heart against the unbelievers and compassionate among themselves. Like a seed that puts forth its sprout, then strengthens it, so it becomes stout and stands firmly on its stem, delighting the sowers that He may enrage the unbelievers on account of them; Allah has promised those among them who believe and do good, forgiveness and a great reward." (Surah XLIX, Hujurat, verse 29, the Holy Qur'an) "Beware lest the desires of the flesh and of a corrupt inclination provoke divisions among you. Be ye as the fingers of one hand, the members of one body. Thus counseleth you the Pen of Revelation, if ye be of them that believe." (Verse 58, the Kitab-I-Aqdas, the Holy Book) To have a true democratic society, the Gambian government, institutions, intellectuals, and ordinary people must perform a thorough self-evaluation. We must evaluate our attitudes. We must evaluate our worksites, whether they are in the private or public sector or in a traditional setting. It is only through this self-evaluation can we discover our strengths and weaknesses and then, be able to come up with a strategy to turn our weaknesses into strengths and come up with policies that have practical implementations which can sustain and develop The Gambia. We need to ask ourselves this question, "Why did the military take over our country?" If we were true believers of God, there would be no need for the military to take over our country. If we had true democracy, we wouldn't be faced with the changes we have now in The Gambia. How long will it take for Gambian to realize the future of our nation is in our hands, not outsiders? I am challenging myself as well as challenging Gambians at home, abroad and the military government to launch a civil education campaign as soon as possible before the elections. It is only when we give educational awareness to the people will they become empowered; aware of their potential and able to use it in a positive way. This is what The Gambia needs. If our intellectuals are not selfish, they should be willing to share their knowledge and experience with the Gambian people and not become dictators and monopolize the Gambian resources and people. The Gambia has a population of about one million people. It doesn't take a genius to develop and sustain The Gambia. It takes people who really love their country; who care and are concerned about their country; people who have vision; people who look for long-term development; people who value "We" more than "I". Individualism will not take us anywhere. What was happening in The Gambia has not changed, in the sense that we have not had civil education, in which people learn to know their rights, their responsibilities and what kind of public policies they should be looking for. Unless this happens, The Gambia will remain the same or become worse than it was under Jawara's regime. In The Gambia, whether government or non-government organizations, all traveling is done by senior managers. This is a control mechanism that allows dictatorship and monopoly. God forbid what should happen if those government officials should pass away! All the knowledge, experience and skills would disappear and the development of the country would become stagnant. We must be willing to share knowledge, to share experience, be willing to support and empower those less unfortunate and less educated than ourselves. We must share the knowledge and experience we have and work together to develop and sustain our country. Unless these attitudes change, The Gambia will remain far away from being a democratic society. What happens to our young graduates when they return back to Gambia? They get sucked into the system because the system never has self-evaluation. They become caught up in the oppressive system we had before. Unless this changes, we will not be able to eliminate poverty in The Gambia. Our attitudes towards the system we have in The Gambia must change drastically without waste of time. Our social scientist have failed The Gambia. Our economists have failed the country. They advised the government on public policy and became administrators which they are not trained for. Our intellectuals spend more time in government offices attending meetings rather than putting practical things into a daily routine of managing an office. Gambian economists should be working very hard to manage scarce resources. If we are to manage scarce resources in The Gambia, we shouldn't advise our government to import goods into our country. An example is rice. We have a tremendous amount of good land and the river is sweet water. The Gambia should not depend on imported rice. It is a shame and a disaster, to us, as Gambian intellectuals, citizens and leaders. Why can't we encourage our economists to go to the fields and work with traditional people in the rural areas and do research and recommend positive changes? Look at the resources we have in this county! We need to manage those resources and develop products by working together with engineers and agriculturists so that what we produce will help us become self-sustainable. If we Gambians are intelligent, we should be asking ourselves this question, "What about the rice that we buy from Taiwan, or Japan or China and the materials we get from London or France or Unites States, if they say, 'No, we will no longer sell you these things', what are we going to do, sit there and cry; or start killing each other?" This tells me that we do not practice intelligence, but ignorance, and are devaluing our capabilities as Gambians and Africans. We need to prepare The Gambia for the twenty- first century and sustainable development. Our middle schools, secondary or high schools need to offer practical experience. Students should be required to do field placements where they are attached to government schools, institutions, agencies or companies to do practical work in the field they are interested in. This will give them experience so that when they graduate, they will be able to apply theories to improve the real world. This is not happening, but should be, in order to make the younger generation more responsible; so they can feel proud of their skills and talents and feel prepared, at any time, to apply them. What should our new democratically elected government look like? Our government must be prepared to decentralize the ministries. We cannot develop The Gambia when all the ministries are stationed in Banjul and Kombo Saint Mary. A committed government will assign at least one ministry to each division so that ministers will work with the local people and see what they are faced with every day. When this happens, the ministers will see the true reality of The Gambia. The new president of The Gambia should choose ministers for his or her cabinet regardless of political party, ethnic or religious group and gender. We need ministers who can come up with strategies and solutions to the problems the people of Gambia have. How can the government say it is working for the good of ALL Gambia when all of the ministries are in Banjul. It does not work that way! We will not become self- sustainable in this way. Government officials need to live and work where the majority of Gambians live and work. I think we have a long way to go in order to have a democratic society. Decentralizing the government will help us to get a better look at the resources we have available in our country. We need to appreciate the human beings who live here and learn from their skills. We need to be willing to work with them in order to solve the problems of The Gambia. Why is the ministry of agriculture located in the urban area when The Gambia is mostly an agricultural country? Why is the Ministry of Works and Communication in Banjul? We have poor communication throughout The Gambia. The roads are very bad in the rural areas of the country. If there is a disaster it will be difficult to travel and render assistance to those who need it. We have poor water sanitation, telephone communication, electricity and empty health centers. Human beings cannot work hard when their social and health conditions are not taken care of. We must be healthy in order to work and sustain the country. We need to stay near the people in the rural areas to understand their problems and work with them to create and develop a better Gambia. We must design a public policy that will address our needs and alleviate poverty in The Gambia. Before elections are held in The Gambia, every candidate must present his/her public policy to The Gambian people. The public policy must be translated in local languages that the people understand. All public policies must be sensitive to Gambian culture. Also, policies must be realistic as well as having practical achievable goals and objectives within a given time frame. Candidates should be able to design a public policy that empowers and unites Gambians and not one that divides, discriminates against, oppresses or suppresses us. All public policies should address and answer the following questions: Who? Why? Which? What? When? Where? and How? What resources will be used to implement public policies and what are the advantages and disadvantages? Why is one policy better than another? How will this policy develop and sustain the Gambia? How will it maintain democracy in The Gambia, reduce corruption and create empowerment among Gambian people? Candidates should teach people how to develop Gambian products for marketing within the country and to other countries, then, we will not have to depend on imports. Importing is a disaster because it drains our economy. It does not take an economist to know that depending on imports is bad and does not allow a country to become self-sustaining! We must face the truth. We must face reality. We must confront those who give wrong advice to our government. Let us become true Gambians, true Africans, who are educated to work together for the betterment of our nation. What is happening to the Gambian economy right now? People are crying that it is slow simply because there is a low tourist turnout this year. Why do we depend on tourism in The Gambia? We shouldn't! We have resources that we can use to boost our economy. We must change our attitudes and no longer depend on the Western world. We must learn to depend on our people's skills and their use of our resources. We need to develop Gambian products that we can market to the West and other neighboring African countries so that when a disaster happens, we will not fold our hands and wait to be fed by outsiders. If we do that, we will remain a colonized nation. Our pubic policy will continue to be dictated and controlled by the West. We Gambians must set an example for the rest of Africa to follow and become self-starters. We must not be afraid of failure. We need to be open and welcome constructive criticism and be willing to face challenges. We need to welcome risks in order to become self-sustainable. This is what The Gambia needs in order to prepare for the twenty-first century. Failure to do so will require the future generation to pay a high price for survival. This will be frustrating for them and will create violence in our Gambian society. Are we prepared to face an oppressive and violent Gambian society in the future? I say: "NO!" The Gambia is too young, as a nation, to allow this to happen to her. We must open our eyes, our minds and tap everyone's positive energy and valuable skills in order to work together to create a better future society for the Gambian nation. I challenge the present Gambian government and Gambian ambassadors to network with Gambians, around the world, and work together to come up with Gambian public policies and ideas that are valuable to implement, in Gambia; programs and projects which alleviate poverty and bring social justice by creating more opportunity for employment equality through developing Gambian products. I challenge them to launch a campaign to encourage self-awareness, self-understanding, environmental concern, and caring about Gambian development. This message is from a true Gambian, born and raised in Bakalar Village, of the North Bank division. Long Live The African Voice! Long Live True Gambians! Long Live Justice in The Gambia! PEACE PEACE PEACE
By Michael B.B.J. Gomez Ph.D. candidate at Boston University Founder of the African Student Association at Boston University Founder of the Gambian Association of Massachusetts Member of the Committee on the Future Direction of American Politics and Public Policy at Harvard University.
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Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 01:01:00 EST From: Lamtoro <Lamtoro@aol.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Intorduction Message-ID: <57ce00e7.3493761f@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Hello everyone Again my name is Baboucar Sallah and am currently studying computer Imformation systems and analysis at the university of south Florida in Tampa.I am looking forward to sharing my views about Gambia with all of you.
yours Baboucar
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Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 01:31:29 EST From: Lamtoro <Lamtoro@aol.com> To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Gambian education a draw back in the 21st century Message-ID: <6a1280ee.34937d43@aol.com> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
I am very disappointed to hear that our University has a copy cat to a university in Canada. I have a big problem with that because this is the first thing that leaves us were we are at this moment. I believe that the gambian education system should be administered according to our cultural,economical and social settings and standards.I am tired of reading a book and fully understand what it means and how to apply it to my daily ways.You guys tell me ?Were you not tired of learning fabricated history lessons and mark & jean.spill it out for the better and independence we are craving for.
Yours Baboucar Sallah Lamtoro@aol.com
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End of GAMBIA-L Digest 98 *************************
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