 |
|
| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
Momodou
Denmark
11513 Posts |
 Posted - 01 Aug 2021 : 14:22:46
|
GAMBIA-L Digest 80
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Fwd: Return of Qualified African Nationals
by TSaidy1050@aol.com
2) RE: Return of Qualified African Nationals
by BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
3) RE: Development of subsaharan Africa
by BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
4) FWD:Taylor Pledges Reconciliation As His Priority
by momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou)
5) FWD:Restoration Of Peace In Liberia An African Success
by momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou)
6) LALA???
by EStew68064@aol.com
7) SV: A Gambian National Language
by "Momodou S Sidibeh" <momodou.sidibeh@stockholm.mail.telia.com>
8) RE: Test: don't look!
by "A.Dibba" <adibba@online.no>
9) Internet awareness seminar
by "The Gambia-L shadow list" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
10) Re: Development of subsaharan Africa (3)
by "The Gambia-L shadow list" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
11) Re: Development of subsaharan Africa
by =?iso-8859-1?Q?Asbj=F8rn_Nordam?= <asbjorn.nordam@dif.dk>
12) RE: LALA???
by BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
13) Re: Development of subsaharan Africa
by binta@iuj.ac.jp
14) RE: Internet awareness seminar
by BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
15) Re: GambiaNet Advisory Board
by "N.JARJU" <CD6C6JNJ@swansea.ac.uk>
16) Our man in Ministry of education.
by =?iso-8859-1?Q?Asbj=F8rn_Nordam?= <asbjorn.nordam@dif.dk>
17) Re: GambiaNet Advisory Board
by Andrea Klumpp <klumpp@kar.dec.com>
18) RE: Summer Jam
by hghanim@nusacc.org
19) Fwd: Nigerian Music Superstar Dies at 58 (fwd)
by "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com>
20) GambiaNet: In response to Andrea's message
by Latir Downes-Thomas <latir@earthlink.net>
21) [Fwd: GambiaNet Progress Report- 26/6/97]
by Latir Downes-Thomas <latir@earthlink.net>
22) GambiaNet Bylaws
by Latir Downes-Thomas <latir@earthlink.net>
23) New members
by momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou)
24) For PAMAMBOUNA BOJANG
by Momodou Musa Janneh <mmjanneh@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
25) RE: LALA???
by EStew68064@aol.com
26) Re: Development of SubSaharan Africa 4
by "The Gambia-L shadow list" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
27) Re: Develop. of subsaharan Africa :rejoinders
by "The Gambia-L shadow list" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
28) Re: GambiaNet: In response to Andrea's message
by "Malanding S. Jaiteh" <msjaiteh@mtu.edu>
29) Re: LALA???
by "PA-MAMBUNA O. BOJANG" <paomar@iglou.com>
30) Re: LALA???
by "Omar Gassama" <kassama@hotmail.com>
31) ENQUIRY - JAINABA DIALLO
by "Momodou S Sidibeh" <momodou.sidibeh@stockholm.mail.telia.com>
32) Re: developm. of subsaharan africa
by =?iso-8859-1?Q?Asbj=F8rn_Nordam?= <asbjorn.nordam@dif.dk>
33) RE: ENQUIRY - JAINABA DIALLO
by BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
34) Language, culture, nation-building etc-a reminder
by =?iso-8859-1?Q?Asbj=F8rn_Nordam?= <asbjorn.nordam@dif.dk>
35) RE: LALA???
by hghanim@nusacc.org
36) SV: Development of subsaharan Africa
by "Momodou S Sidibeh" <momodou.sidibeh@stockholm.mail.telia.com>
37) RE: LALA???
by BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
38) RE: LALA???
by BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
39) RE: LALA???
by hghanim@nusacc.org
40) Re: developm. of subsaharan africa:rejoinder2
by "The Gambia-L shadow list" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
41) RE: LALA???
by BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
42) RE: LALA???
by hghanim@nusacc.org
43) RE: developm. of subsaharan africa:rejoinder2
by BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
44) RE: LALA???
by gndow@spelman.edu (Gabriel Ndow)
45) RE: LALA???
by gndow@spelman.edu (Gabriel Ndow)
46) RE: LALA???
by gndow@spelman.edu (Gabriel Ndow)
47) LA-LA-LA
by "The Gambia-L shadow list" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
48) Re: GambiaNet: In response to Andrea's message
by Latir Downes-Thomas <latir@earthlink.net>
49) Re: GambiaNet: In response to Andrea's message
by Latir Downes-Thomas <latir@earthlink.net>
50) Belated Introduction.......
by "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com>
51) Re: GambiaNet: In response to Andrea's message
by momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou)
52) Fwd: FOOD-FINANCE: New Investments Needed to Fight 'Hidden Hunger'
by momodou@inform-bbs.dk (Momodou Camara)
53) Fwd: U.S.-AFRICA: Getting Democracy Wron
by momodou@inform-bbs.dk (Momodou Camara)
54) RE: ENQUIRY - JAINABA DIALLO
by "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com>
55) Re: LA-LA-LA
by Abdourahman Touray <abdou@cs.columbia.edu>
56) Re: LA-LA-LA
by Ancha Bala-Gaye u <bala7500@mach1.wlu.ca>
57) Re: Development of SubSaharan Africa 4
by Ancha Bala-Gaye u <bala7500@mach1.wlu.ca>
58) Re: Summer Jam
by MJawara@aol.com
59) Re: LA-LA-LA
by "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com>
60) (Fwd): UNITED NATIONS: UNDP Calls for Penalties Against Co
by momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou)
61) RE: Belated Introduction.......
by BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
62) RE: LA-LA-LA
by BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
63) RE: LA-LA-LA
by Badara Joof <Joof@winhlp.no>
64) RE: LALA???
by hghanim@nusacc.org
65) RE: LALA???
by hghanim@nusacc.org
66)
by abdoub@math.uio.no
67) Re: No Subject
by Salifuj@aol.com
68) Re: LA-LA-LA
by "Malanding S. Jaiteh" <msjaiteh@mtu.edu>
69) Re: No Subject
by binta@iuj.ac.jp
70) RE: developm. of subsaharan africa:rejoinder2
by BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
71) Re: GambiaNet: In response to Andrea's message
by "Malanding S. Jaiteh" <msjaiteh@mtu.edu>
72) Re: No Subject
by Ancha Bala-Gaye u <bala7500@mach1.wlu.ca>
73) Fwd: AFRICA: Ruling Party/Opposition Gap Devides Women Too
by momodou@inform-bbs.dk (Momodou Camara)
74) Re: LA-LA-LA
by "The Gambia-L shadow list" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
75) Re: LA-LA-LA
by "The Gambia-L shadow list" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
76) Fwd: DEVELOPMENT: Nigeria Tops Global Li
by momodou@inform-bbs.dk (Momodou Camara)
77) SV: LA-LA-LA
by "Momodou S Sidibeh" <momodou.sidibeh@stockholm.mail.telia.com>
78) Re: A Gambian National Language
by Susan Renee Hayes <srhayes@indiana.edu>
79) Re: No Subject
by "The Gambia-L shadow list" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
80) Re: No Subject
by "The Gambia-L shadow list" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
81) Re: LA-LA-LA
by Ancha Bala-Gaye u <bala7500@mach1.wlu.ca>
82) Re: SV: LA-LA-LA
by binta@iuj.ac.jp
83) Re: GambiaNet: In response to Andrea's message
by Abdourahman Touray <abdou@cs.columbia.edu>
84) Re: Gambians NOT going back home
by Salifuj@aol.com
85) RE: Gambians NOT going back home
by Badara Joof <Joof@winhlp.no>
86) Re: A Gambian National Language
by momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou)
87) Re: Gambians NOT going back home
by binta@iuj.ac.jp
88) Re: A Gambian National Language
by Latir Downes-Thomas <latir@earthlink.net>
89) Re: Gambians NOT going back home
by Latir Downes-Thomas <latir@earthlink.net>
90) Re: A Gambian National Language
by Latir Downes-Thomas <latir@earthlink.net>
91) Re: No Subject
by "The Gambia-L shadow list" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
92) Re: PMJALLOW:DEV. OF SUBSAHARAN AFRICA
by "The Gambia-L shadow list" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
93) RE: Gambians NOT going back home
by Badara Joof <Joof@winhlp.no>
94) Re: A Gambian National Language
by momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou)
95) Encourage Young Gambian Businesses
by Isatou Secka <isatou@Glue.umd.edu>
96) unity for the good of Gambia
by hghanim@nusacc.org
97) RE: Encourage Young Gambian Businesses
by hghanim@nusacc.org
98) Re: People are People
by David Gilden <dgilden@tiac.net>
99) RE: People are People
by hghanim@nusacc.org
100) Fwd: "Merceneries eye Sierra Leone"
by momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou)
101) RE: People are People
by BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
102) RE: People are People
by hghanim@nusacc.org
103) RE: People are People
by hghanim@nusacc.org
104) New and Curious
by "LAURA T RADER" <LTR6685@owl.forestry.uga.edu>
105) Re: Gambians NOT going back home
by "The Gambia-L shadow list" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
106) RE: New and Curious
by BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
107) Re: A Gambian National Language
by O BALDEH <O.Baldeh@Bradford.ac.uk>
108) Folks! Folks!
by Momodou Musa Janneh <mmjanneh@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
109) Re: Gambians not going back!
by binta@iuj.ac.jp
110) Re: New and Curious
by binta@iuj.ac.jp
111) House for rent needed
by momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou)
112) New Member
by momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou)
113) Gambia travel site (fwd)
by "N'Deye Marie N'Jie" <njie.1@osu.edu>
114) Re: Gambians not going back!
by Salifuj@aol.com
115) RE: LA-LA PART 2
by "Momodou S Sidibeh" <momodou.sidibeh@stockholm.mail.telia.com>
116) RE: LA-LA PART 3
by "Momodou S Sidibeh" <momodou.sidibeh@stockholm.mail.telia.com>
117) Warning Bizarre News: Senegal!!! (fwd)
by "N'Deye Marie N'Jie" <njie.1@osu.edu>
118) SV: SV: LA-LA-LA
by "Momodou S Sidibeh" <momodou.sidibeh@stockholm.mail.telia.com>
119) SV: LA-LA PART 3
by "Momodou S Sidibeh" <momodou.sidibeh@stockholm.mail.telia.com>
120) RE: Warning Bizarre News: Senegal!!! (fwd)
by BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
121) SV: New and Curious
by "Momodou S Sidibeh" <momodou.sidibeh@stockholm.mail.telia.com>
122) RE: Folks! Folks!
by hghanim@nusacc.org
123) FW: Sauerkraut
by Ceesay Soffie <Ceesay_Soffie@ems.prc.com>
124) RE: People are People
by Ancha Bala-Gaye u <bala7500@mach1.wlu.ca>
125) Re: People are People
by "The Gambia-L shadow list" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
126) Debating Skills Le?
by "LAURA T RADER" <LTR6685@owl.forestry.uga.edu>
127) Re: Debating Skills Le?
by Latir Downes-Thomas <latir@earthlink.net>
128) LA LA LA LA LA
by EStew68064@aol.com
129) RE: Debating Skills Le?
by BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
130) RE: New and Curious
by "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com>
131) RE: People are People
by "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com>
132) Re: People are People
by Andrea Klumpp <klumpp@kar.dec.com>
133) RE: New and Curious
by BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
134) Re: Sauerkraut
by "The Gambia-L shadow list" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
135) RE: People are People
by BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
136) RE: New and Curious
by BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
137) Re: unity for the good of Gambia
by "The Gambia-L shadow list" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
138) Re: LA-LA-LA
by momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou)
139) Re: Encourage Young Gambian Businesses
by "The Gambia-L shadow list" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
140) Re: Encourage Young Gambian Businesses
by ASJanneh@aol.com
141) RE: People are People
by hghanim@nusacc.org
142) RE: People are People
by hghanim@nusacc.org
143) Re: LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA
by Abdou Gibba <Abdou.Gibba@smr.uib.no>
144) RE: unity for the good of Gambia
by hghanim@nusacc.org
145) RE: Debating Skills Le?
by hghanim@nusacc.org
146) Re: Encourage Young Gambian Businesses
by Abdou Gibba <Abdou.Gibba@smr.uib.no>
147) Re: Encourage Young Gambian Businesses
by "Malanding S. Jaiteh" <msjaiteh@mtu.edu>
148) Re: GambiaNet Bylaws
by Andrea Klumpp <klumpp@kar.dec.com>
149) Re: Encourage Young Gambian Businesses
by Salifuj@aol.com
150) Re: Gambia travel site (fwd)
by Salifuj@aol.com
151) Re: A Gambian National Language
by "M. Njie" <mn015@students.stir.ac.uk>
152) FW: story for the day
by Ceesay Soffie <Ceesay_Soffie@ems.prc.com>
153) Re: Encourage Young Gambian Businesses
by Latir Downes-Thomas <latir@earthlink.net>
154) RE: People are People
by "LAURA T RADER" <LTR6685@owl.forestry.uga.edu>
155) RE: Encourage Young Gambian Businesses
by BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
156) Re: Encourage Young Gambian Businesses
by binta@iuj.ac.jp
157) RE: People are People
by BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
158) Re: LA LA LA LA LA
by "Malanding S. Jaiteh" <msjaiteh@mtu.edu>
159) RE: People are People
by hghanim@nusacc.org
160) introduction
by "m.gassama" <m.gassama@swipnet.se>
161) RE: LA LA LA LA LA
by hghanim@nusacc.org
162) RE: introduction
by hghanim@nusacc.org
163) Re: introduction
by mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
164) My thoughts on different mails
by conteh@usa.net
165) RE: introduction
by BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
166) RE: People are People
by "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com>
167) Re: My thoughts on different mails
by "Malanding S. Jaiteh" <msjaiteh@mtu.edu>
168) Re: introduction
by Momodou Musa Janneh <mmjanneh@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
169) GambiaNet Advisory Board
by Latir Downes-Thomas <latir@earthlink.net>
170) Re: GambiaNet Advisory Board
by Momodou Musa Janneh <mmjanneh@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
171) Re: People are People
by Ancha Bala-Gaye u <bala7500@mach1.wlu.ca>
172) Re: Torstien
by SANG1220@aol.com
173) The Gambia
by "The Gambia-L shadow list" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
174) RE: People are People
by EStew68064@aol.com
175) Monetary/Economic Matters
by ASJanneh@aol.com
176) Re: Development of subsaharan africa (God & Productivity)
by Francis Njie <c3p0@xsite.net>
177) Re: New and Curious (Oil off the Gambian coast?)
by Francis Njie <c3p0@xsite.net>
178) Re: Internet awareness seminar (Bandwidth Increases)
by Francis Njie <c3p0@xsite.net>
179) Re: The Gambia
by Andrea Klumpp <klumpp@kar.dec.com>
180) Re: New and Curious (Oil off the Gambian coast?)
by EStew68064@aol.com
181) SV: New and Curious
by "Momodou S Sidibeh" <momodou.sidibeh@stockholm.mail.telia.com>
182) New member
by momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou)
183) Fwd: FINANCE-DEVELOPMEN: IMF Ties 'Good Governance' Conditions To Its Loans
by momodou@inform-bbs.dk (Momodou Camara)
184) Re: New and Curious (Oil off the Gambian coast?)
by "The Gambia-L shadow list" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
185) Re: New and Curious (Oil off the Gambian coast?)
by momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou)
186) Re: Development of subsaharan africa (God & Productivity)
by "The Gambia-L shadow list" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 07:31:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: TSaidy1050@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Fwd: Return of Qualified African Nationals
Message-ID: <970803073139_343707843@emout16.mail.aol.com>
Information from IOM in washington.
Peace
Tombong Saidy
---------------------
Forwarded message:
From: FLEMING@washington.iom.ch (FLEMING James)
To: TSaidy1050@aol.com (Saidy, Tombong)
Date: 97-07-26 05:04:27 EDT
********************************************************
RETURN OF QUALIFIED AFRICAN NATIONALS PROGRAM
> Job placement in Africa
> Financial assistance for returning job holders
> Support for self-employment projects
********************************************************
INTRODUCTION
In an effort to address the effects of the Brain Drain, the
International Organization for Migration (IOM) is implementing a program
to facilitate the return of highly qualified African professionals.
PROGRAM SUMMARY
African countries participating in Phase III of the Return of Qualified
African Nationals Program are: Angola, Cape Verde, Ethiopia, Ghana,
Guinea-Bissau, Kenya, Mozambique, Uganda, Zambia, and Zimbabwe.
Nationals of these countries interested in job placement who hold a
Ph.D., or a Masters degree with two years of working experience, are
invited to apply. Africans holding a Bachelors degree, with extensive
work experience, will also be considered.
In some cases, IOM may consider applications of professionals who have
identified their own employment positions in Africa. Further, IOM may
evaluate candidates who are interested in self-employment projects.
IOM is able to assist a number of returnees from non-participant
nations, especially, but not limited to, Cameroon, Cote d'Ivoire,
Eritrea, Guinea, Malawi, Mali, Namibia, Senegal, Tanzania, and Tchad.
These applicants must have an employment position secured in their
country of return before their case may be evaluated.
APPLICATION PROCESS
Applications are submitted to the IOM office in Washington for review.
Approved dossiers are forwarded to regional offices in Africa via IOM
Headquarters in Geneva. The offices in Africa contact prospective
employers and submit dossiers of candidates for appropriate job
vacancies. Candidates may be placed with employers in the Public,
Private, or International sectors, depending on the human resources
requirements for each country. Once a job is secured IOM may provide
return and reintegration assistance.
FINANCIAL SUPPORT
Determined on a case-by-case basis, financial benefits for successfully
matched candidates may include:
> Airline tickets for the candidate and his or her dependents.
> Partial assistance toward the shipment of personal effects.
> A grant toward the purchase of professional equipment.
> Reintegration and reinstallation support to help defray initial
housing and living expenses.
BACKGROUND
The Program for the Reintegration of Qualified African Nationals began
in 1983 as a pilot project with a grant from the European Union
(formerly the EEC) and the United States. This development project was
designed to help reverse the effects of the brain drain on Africa. This
was accomplished by assisting African nations return and employ their
educated and experienced foreign-based nationals. Each returnee was
able to contribute to the development of his or her country through the
transfer of their knowledge, skills and experience. Between 1983 and
1987, 535 African Nationals were assisted by IOM in their return to the
African work force. Due to the overwhelming success of the pilot
project, the European Union approved Phase II of the program under the
Lome III Convention. Interested African ACP countries were invited to
participate. Under the project extension, 765 qualified professionals
and their families returned to Africa. Once again, as a result of the
program's success, the European Union considered and approved a third
phase of the Program under the Lome IV convention. Begun in February,
1995 Phase III of the program is designed to help 999 Africans families
return home.
********************************************************
For more information or an application, contact the IOM office in
Washington:
IOM
1750 K Street NW, Suite 1110
Washington, DC 20006
USA
E-mail: fleming@washington.iom.ch
Please note: IOM Washington is responsible for applications from
African Nationals who reside in Canada, the Caribbean, and the USA.
Inquiries from other locations will be referred to the appropriate IOM
office.
********************************************************
DATA ON IOM
IOM is an independent, non-political organization of 59 Member
Governments and 48 Observer States worldwide. For more than 40 years,
it has planned and operated specialized technical programs to assist in
refugee resettlement and migration for development. Over 8 million
people have received migration assistance under the auspices of IOM and
more than 20,000 people have received reintegration support under the
various "Return of Talent" programs to Africa, Latin America, the
Caribbean, and Southeast Asia.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 17:44:37 +-300
From: BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
To: "'gambia-l@u.washington.edu'" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: RE: Return of Qualified African Nationals
Message-ID: <01BCA034.F14B03A0@ddcc.qatar.net.qa>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BCA034.F14B03A0"
------ =_NextPart_000_01BCA034.F14B03A0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Tombong!
As always,thanks for the resourcefulness!
Regards Bassss!
----------
From: TSaidy1050@aol.com[SMTP:TSaidy1050@aol.com]
Sent: 03 =D4=DA=C8=C7=E4, 1997 10:31
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
Subject: Fwd: Return of Qualified African Nationals
=20
Information from IOM in washington.
Peace
Tombong Saidy
---------------------
Forwarded message:
From: FLEMING@washington.iom.ch (FLEMING James)
To: TSaidy1050@aol.com (Saidy, Tombong)
Date: 97-07-26 05:04:27 EDT
********************************************************
RETURN OF QUALIFIED AFRICAN NATIONALS PROGRAM
> Job placement in Africa
> Financial assistance for returning job holders
> Support for self-employment projects
********************************************************
INTRODUCTION
In an effort to address the effects of the Brain Drain, the
International Organization for Migration (IOM) is implementing a program
to facilitate the return of highly qualified African professionals.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 18:30:22 +-300
From: BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
To: "'gambia-l@u.washington.edu'" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: RE: Development of subsaharan Africa
Message-ID: <01BCA03B.50DCE620@ddcc.qatar.net.qa>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BCA03B.50E48740"
------ =_NextPart_000_01BCA03B.50E48740
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Mr.Jallow!
It was really refreshing reading your analysis of the developmental =
maladies of Gambia, esp. the very interesting real examples you have =
given and what you think should be done about them.
I have some observations to make,but since you apparently have not yet =
finished,my observations will have to wait.But,in the meantime time, can =
you tell us a little about the problems facing the Agricultural Sector, =
because I can't figure out why Africans can't still produce their own =
foods even though the ecomomies of very many of them are based on =
Agriculture.
Regards Bassss! =20
----------
From: The Gambia-L shadow list[SMTP:gambia-l@commit.gm]
Sent: 03 =D4=DA=C8=C7=E4, 1997 5:02
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
Subject: Re: Development of subsaharan Africa
This is forwarded from "Pa Musa Jallow" <pmj@commit.gm>
(pmj@commit.gm)
How To develop from here (after a generation of independence) ?
People & Bass in particular
Bye for now and all comments invited.. the thrust of my argument is we
still pay the price of the colonial education of the 1950s..there are
universities in UK specializing in giving third worlders and Africans in
particular Masters degrees in 2 years flat..then of course go home.
Peace
pmj
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 20:52:30 +0200
From: momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: FWD:Taylor Pledges Reconciliation As His Priority
Message-ID: <19970803195425.AAB9256@LOCALNAME>
Taylor Pledges Reconciliation As His Priority
August 3, 1997
Paul Ejime, PANA Correspondent
MONROVIA (PANA) - Liberia's new president, Charles Taylor, has pledged
to make national reconciliation his priority in the post-war
administration of his country.
In our quest to heal the pains of the republic, national
reconciliation remainds the key, Taylor, a former warlord, said after
his inauguration Saturday.
He won the presidential elections overwhelmingly, July 19
To this end, Taylor declared the month of August the period for
national reconciliation and healing.
Reach out and speak to someone even if that person does not want to
speak to you, he said. Apologize to someone eve if you believe that
that person deserves no apology.
In an apparent reference to the fact that he started the 1989
rebellion that triggered the seven-year civil war, Taylor said
Liberians should walk away from any argument about who started the war
and why.
He said: Let us abandon the constant references to our tribal and
ethnic origins in furtherance of the speech of propensity for hate.
That comment came during his inaugural speech, a ceremony lasting one
hour at Monrovia's Centennial Pavilion packed with thousands of
leaders and eight West African leaders.
Taylor told his compatriots they should never ever permit themselves
to be divided by anyone. The war killed at least 150,000 of the
country's estimated 2.5 million people and send hundreds of thousands
more other West African countries as refugees.
Promising to uplift and protect the human rights ad welfare of
Liberians, especially some 60,000 former fighters, Taylor called on
all Liberians abroad to return home and join us in the Herculean task
of reconstructing our beloved country.
He said: We are committed to the welfare and equal opportunity for all
ex-combatants of the civil conflict whether you are health,
traumatised, disabled otherwise disarmed and demobilised.
He promised to be a president to all Liberians and not a factional
leader. He said the principle of reciprocity, self-determination and
non-interference in the internal affairs of other countries would
guide the foreign policy of his administration.
In addition, he pledged to respect the relevant charters of the United
Nations, the Organisation of African Unity, the Economic Community of
West African States (Ecowas) and other international bodies to which
Liberia is signatory.
He urged greater African unity ad subregional integration. Liberia, he
said, would resume its place among the nations of Africa.
Speaking of a new breed of African leaders, Taylor said while Africa
shall entertain the views ad wisdom of other nations Africa shall not
be expected, as in the past, to be commanded by others.
He said Africa should cease to be a consumer continent to be dictated
to or remain a market place where arms for human destruction are sold.
Taylor expressed gratitude to the international community, especially
Ecowas, which has had a peace monitoring force in Liberia to help end
the civil war. He singled out Nigerian leader Sani Abacha for special
mention, saying his personal involvement facilitated the return of
peace to Liberia.
Copyright + 1997 Panafrican News Agency. All
Rights Reserved.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 20:52:31 +0200
From: momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: FWD:Restoration Of Peace In Liberia An African Success
Message-ID: <19970803195425.AAA9256@LOCALNAME>
Restoration Of Peace In Liberia An African Success
August 3, 1997
Paul Ejime, PANA Correspondent
MONROVIA (PANA) - The Ecowas Chairman ad Nigerian head of state, Gen.
Sani Abacha, says the restoration of peace in war-torn Liberia is a
demonstration that Africa can solve its won problems.
It shows that Africans can take their destiny in their own hands and
that regional peace keeping can work and indeed works, he said.
He was speaking Saturday at the inauguration of Charles Taylor as
president of post-war Liberia.
Commending the Economic Community of West African States' (Ecowas)
initiative in Liberia, Abacha said it was the first proven success of
chapter eight of the United Nations charter.
He said the entire world was now focused on Africa's oldest republic,
The rebirth of a great nation as Taylor took the oath of office.
Noting the skepticism that greeted the 1990 deployment of Ecomog, the
community's Peace Monitoring Force, to Liberia, Abacha acknowledged
that peace had been difficult to attain. It involved the sacrifice of
blood, sweat and vast resources, he said.
He added that Liberia had paid too great a price for this war, which
was altogether avoidable.
Describing Taylor's inauguration as epic-making and the culmination of
the collective efforts of the subregion, Abacha said the former
warlord was the man whom destiny has chose to lead Liberia into the
next century.
As Nigeria and Ecowas stood by Liberia during crisis, Abacha said the
same way they would support the country in time of peace.
Copyright + 1997 Panafrican News Agency. All
Rights Reserved.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 20:00:54 -0400 (EDT)
From: EStew68064@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: LALA???
Message-ID: <970803200053_884598773@emout18.mail.aol.com>
SAMBUJANG- GR. DAVID GAMBLE WOULD LIKE TO KNOW IF THERE IS A MANDINKA WORD
"LALA." ALSO, WHAT DOES THIS WORD MEAN. ANYONE KNOW OUT THERE?
BARRAKA...LIZ STEWART FATTY
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 17:18:57 +0200
From: "Momodou S Sidibeh" <momodou.sidibeh@stockholm.mail.telia.com>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: SV: A Gambian National Language
Message-ID: <199708040056.CAA23910@d1o2.telia.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Hello Mr. Baldeh,
I have had a lousy week-end, so please bear with me if you find my question
irresponsible. I have been away from my desk for nearly a week and I' ve
just managed to go through your long answers to Momodou Camara.
My point of departure is that ANYTHING that promotes a Gambian identity is
welcome! Linguists like yourself would certainly have a lot to do whenever
the inhabitants of that geographic entity called Gambia should choose to
invent a hybridised tongue from some of the languages spoken there. But I
have a question and a few comments:
1. I failed to congratulate Bass on that wonderful job he did on a very
brief synopsis about the Origins of Tribali...I do not think Bass intended
it as a course, as you seemed to think. However, I would like to ask why
you think anyone giving a view of some aspect of linguistic history MUST
mention Noam Chomsky.
Frankly, I for one care little , at this material time, about whether
languages are a gift from God or some other deity that should wish us
appreciate it as THE VERB, OR SOURCE OF LIFE(?). Material conditions in
the world have RESULTED TO THE DEATH OF SOME LANGUAGES AND THE BIRTH OF
OTHERS - AND it is of little consequence (TO ME) if that is always a matter
of divine intervention or not. And such material conditions, do, to some
extent, exist in the Gambia! [ That many Gambians speak a Wollof poisoned
with English words is for instance, a fact of this world, explicable with
or without the help of both the Holy Quran and the Holy Bible].
You say that Momodou should answer the imaginary Dane not like a European
since he is not one himself - my understanding of your implication being
that he should answer like an African/Gambia. But, in the same vein, you
mentioned that you do not want to be party to those kind of Gambian-type
discussions(?)!! Well what sort of debates do you want to participate in?
French or Danish ones?? Clear thinking is necessary here, don't you think?
No offence meant.
Best Regards,
Modou Sidibeh.
> Från: O BALDEH <O.Baldeh@Bradford.ac.uk>
> Till: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
> Ämne: Re: A Gambian National Language
> Datum: den 31 juli 1997 19:27
>
> Njie,
> I would like give you more of what you need consequently. However, I am
> not among those who advocate for selecting one national langyage among
> the languages for the country. please note that. I am saying it is
> possible to create a langaugae out of these languages but I am not
> proposing one language in the place of others. I will not do that. Thats
> schizo....
> No hard feelings, just make records clear.
> si jaamanobi.
> Omar Baldeh
>
> On Thu, 31 Jul 1997, M. Njie wrote:
>
> > Momodou's question whether Gambian linquists can create a
new
> > language from the existing ones which could become our
national
> > language in 20-30 years' time, is not difficult to answer.
The
> > answer is YES, they can. But such an important national issue
> > cannot be left to linguists alone. I am not sure whether a
> > mixture of the most simple words will be enough, but I get
> > your point the new language being inclusive of all the other
> > languages.
> >
> > How language originated is still in dispute, with some
> > maintaining that it is a gift from God, while others say it
> > was invented by human beings. The Greeks believed that an
> > ancient 'legislator' gave the true names to all things. I am
> > not sure from Momodou's question, the domains in which the new
> > language is to be used, but I would imagine that it would
of
> > higher status than the other languages. In which case, it
> > would be used in domains such as Family, Technical,
Administration,
> > Education and Rural life.
> >
> > Language and cultural transmission are to some two sides of
> > the same coin. Suffice to say that the new language should
> > be accepted by society at large 'as suitable for its assigned
> > role and of such functional importance as to be worth the
> > effort of acquiring...it has an important bearing on
> > motivation.'
> >
> > One of the problems with a national language in Africa,
> > like in Kenya, is that employers rarely include Kiswahili in
> > their list of qualifications for jobs. There may also be the
> > case that certain wealthy people would prefer to send their
> > kids abroad for education.
> >
> > Out of 53 African states, only about nine have a common
> > national language. So it is a rather tricky subject. And in
> > some countries that now have a national language,there are hist.reasons
for
> > it. Kiswahili, for example, was, to put it crudely, the
mother
> > tongue of only about ten percent of the population. But it
> > has now acquired an almost neutral status, not least because
> > of the massive support given to its development by the
Germans
> > and the willingness of the people to accept it. Momodou did
> > not specifically ask this question, but I just wanted to put
the
> > national language issue in some context. Other members(Susan,
> > Bass, Omar and Jainaba) have voiced their support for the
> > selection of one of our national languages as THE national
> > language, and I will have something to say about this by the
> > middle of next week.
> >
> > I would however like to comment, if I may, about certain
> > issues already raised by Omar. I agree with him that in the
> > world, bilingualism is the norm, and monolingualism the
> > exception. However, if a monolingual is someone who speaks
only
> > one language, there are many to be found in Britain, for
> > example. This is probably because many of them do not see
the
> > need to learn another language, and they are many a time
> > embarrassed by this. I may not get Omar's proper meaning of
> > monolingualism. In which case, I am sorry. All the Africans
> > that I know are at least bilingual, but our
> > bilingualism/multilingualism is hardly recognised. For many, this
> > means being able to speak only certain selected languages.
> >
> > Also, Omar appears to be saying that our indigenous
> > languages are important to us, and at the same arguing that
> > language is culture-neutral. Can he throw more light on this?
> > I just want to ask two questions that sociolinguists sometimes
ask.
> > 1)Does learning another language entail learning another
culture?
> > 2)Does our own language DETERMINE our perception of the world?
> > In trying to answer these questions, take into account, where
> > the LEARNER travels and where the LANGUAGE travels.
> >
> > I agree with Omar that there is no evidence that one
> > language is more ' primitive' than another. Suffice to say that
> > all languages have grammar, phonology, syntax and lexicon. I
> > wll elaborate next week, if there is any need for it, on
the
> > position of the 'univeralists' and the 'relativists' regarding
> > the Principle of Linguistic Equality.
> >
> > If anyone wants to raise certain issues with me on this
> > subject, publicly or privately, it would be much appreciated.
I
> > wish everyone a super weekend.
> >
> > Momodou
> >
> > PS I am sorry if I have caused distress to certain people
> > regarding the length of the mail. That is why I raised the
> > possibility of a private discussion.
> >
> >
> >
> >
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 09:01:13 +0200
From: "A.Dibba" <adibba@online.no>
To: "'gambia-l@u.washington.edu'" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: RE: Test: don't look!
Message-ID: <01BCA0B4.F6606080@NTWK4_0_96-31>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BCA0B4.F6636DC0"
------ =_NextPart_000_01BCA0B4.F6636DC0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
-----Original Message-----
From: Moe S. Jallow [SMTP:mjallow@sct.edu]
Sent: Saturday, August 02, 1997 6:46 PM
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
Subject: Test: don't look!
Just testing.
-Moe
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 02:25:03 -0000
From: "The Gambia-L shadow list" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
To: "GAMBIA-L" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Internet awareness seminar
Message-ID: <B0000002868@south.commit.gm>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
This is forwarded from "Mr.Torstein Grotnes" <tgr@commit.gm>
(tgr@commit.gm)
NATIONAL NEWS
FOROYAA WEEKLY NEWSPAPER 31JULY-7AUGUST, 1997
-------------------------------------------
GAMTEL ORGANIZED A ONE DAY INTERNET SENSITIZATION SEMINAR
As part of the celebration to mark Internet week, the Gambia Telecommunications Company Ltd. GAMTEL in collaboration with the UNDP,
Banjul, organized a one day Internet Awareness Seminar at the Kairaba Beach Hotel On Monday, 28 July, 1997 to which the general
public was invited.
In his opening speech to the seminar, the Secretary of State for Works, Communication and Information, Mr. Ebrima Ceesay
underscored the importance of the Internet to the development of The Gambia.
He described the Internet as a tool for development which can bring awareness to the public by providing various forms of
information.
The secretary of State went on to assure the private sector that government does not intend to monopolize the Internet. He
indicated that they would limit themselves to the provisions of services.
In addressing the gathering , the acting UNDP resident Representative, Mr. Yakou Mensah underscored the need to develop an African
Information society that will enhance policy formulation.
Mr. Mensah elaborated on the multifaceted project of the UNDP to The Gambia.
He then went on to describe the introduction of Internet services as one of the most important innovations of the century.
He then outlined the objectives of the Internet project.
The managing Director of GAMTEL recalled that it was barely three months ago that the secretary of State for Works, Communication
and Information led a 5 person delegation to Abuja, Nigeria.
He indicated that the project will allow Internet users to share experience, and expose participants to services through the
Internet.
Other speakers included Dr. Akwule, President of Africa Communications (AFCOM), Richard Kirby of the UNDP Africa Regional Bureau,
and Ms. Molwane, who are part of the UNDP team, Mr. Sankung Sawo and M. Lamin Jagne, both of GAMTEL and Mr. Muhammed Jah of the
Quantum Associates who represented the private sector.
Sources indicate that the project is a three year project jointly sponsored by the UNDP and The Gambia Government to a tune of
$600,000 and $500,000 respectively.
The project is meant to create a national gateway for The Gambia and is based on the principles of capacity building, partnership
and sustainability.
The project will be managed by GAMTEL and The Gambia Government.
The closing remarks were delivered by the Permanent Secretary, State Department of Works, Communications and Information.
Also present at the seminar were Secretaries of State for Finance and Economic Affairs, Trade, Industry and Employment and Foreign
Affairs.
At the end of the deliberations, participants had the opportunity to raise many questions and concerns.
--------------------------------------------
These news are extracted from the latest edition of Foroyaa weekly newspaper.
Spelling errors are all mine.
COMMENT:
The one day seminar was promising in terms of upgrading the existing digital lines to The Gambia.
As I understood it by the information we received from the seminar, with the help of UNDP and in collaboration
with GAMTEL, The Gambia will get a initial 128 Kbit Gateway line to a Internet backbone by the end of the year.
Later in the three year project, even higher bandwidth would be available.
For the initial limited Internet market in The Gambia, a 128Kbit line will be sufficient to deliver good speed browsing, newsgroup
and ftp services.
Promising was also the wording from the Secretary of State for Works, Communication and Information, Mr. Ebrima Ceesay,
and GAMTEL, that the private sector would play an important part in providing the services to the customers.
One obstacle I am concerned about though in the development of a "Internet community" in The Gambia is the lack of "Nerds".
You might laugh but the point here is that these groups of boys and girls using big parts of their teen-years playing around with
computers ten/fifteen years ago in Europe,US,UK, today is the backbone of resource people developing and creating the Internet.
One simple example is the largest software company Microsoft, with true to the bone "Nerd" Bill Gates.
I believe the enabling of such groups would go a long way to let The Gambia be somebody in the "Global village".
Regards,
Torstein Grotnes
Manager & Secretary
Commit Enterprises Ltd.
Address: 6 M-section, Fajara, PMB 717, Serrekunda, The Gambia, WA
Tel: +220 392667 Fax: +220 375890 E-mail: tgr@commit.gm
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 23:48:04 +0100
From: "The Gambia-L shadow list" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
To: "gambia-l" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Development of subsaharan Africa (3)
Message-ID: <B0000002866@south.commit.gm>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
This is forwarded from "Pa Musa Jallow" <pmj@commit.gm>
(pmj@commit.gm)
Mr. Lamin & People
I apologise for the brief nature of some of my points, by liberalization
and opening access I mean just that..the Rulers/Civil Servants are looked
upon with distrust and sometimes with dismay here especially in the rural
/country areas..we go there on TREK in our fancy and air-conditioned 4 WD
vehicles, sleep in air-conditioned Govt. Quarters or Guest Houses just like
the Colonial masters and deliver opinions and judgements..a case in point
is the Soil & Water management unit of the agriculture department..for
donkey years, these Agric officers did liming demonstrations on all types
of soil
based on a 1977 excercise learnt fom USAID Technical Assistants..these
officers were not aware of any other tests for different soils, insisted on
the same, practically forced the farmers to cultivate saline swamps and of
course yield is NOTHING..the farmers after years of DICTAT know better that
REFUSE but SNEER about the TOUBAB KARANGLAS..(white or Western Educated
types)..all attempts by newly graduated Agricultural
Scientists..Gambians..were met with the comments of ýou have no
experience..we have done this for 20 years..one famous remark..then made
about The Gambia's now Secretary of State for Agriculture..a Rice
Scientist..was that all he did was test and experiment..and that
AGRICULTURE was an ART..now as MINISTER, he is still inhibited by the same
old guard...
so our generation of newly trained graduates have to face this disdain
and distrust our people have ...and rightly so from unflexible govt.
policies that have often failed..the main reason is still the employment of
underqualified personnel in all these technical fields..fitters called
Mechanics..Mechanics called Engineers..Agronomists who have no clue what
Agronomy is..
what I also mean by the 2 year Masters without Thesis degree especially for
Africans is that certain so- called Universities have been profiting from
the sale of this to Africans..so called Experience is factored in and in
two
years..Presto..you receive a Masters..they get their money..our fake
graduates receive a document to continue the masquerade..this is even
sometimes 1 year..tailor made for us..
To continue with Where to from here?
One will wonder why our impact.our generation which I maintain is competent
to carry on OUR SURGE TO THE FUTURE..has still not been able to carry this
out ..I argue that a REFORM of the system is required and is
ineveitable..the old classical system will not work..and the REVOLUTION is
underway...
I lauded GAMTEL as the first shot in the REVOLUTION but today after having
expanded countrywide utilizing FIBRE OPTIC NETWORK..way ahead of many
westen countries..GAMTEL has about 25,000 subscribers and a backlog of
about 21,000 who cannot get service..NEW LINES now cost D800.00 ($80)
exorbitant by any standards especially The Gambia. The inherent cost of
phone service is now practically anti-consumer..and Level of Service is
dropping..if GAMTEL lacks the capital for Maintenance and much less
DEVELOPMENT and having set up the BASIC INFRASTRUCTURE..bring in
investors..give a minimum rate for use of existing INFRASTRUCTURE and then
let us build on this..that should be the NEXT STEP..let GAMTEL regulate and
monitor and also provide basic services..if the new services can be
cheaper..all the better if not and they cost more but have more features or
better services..let the CONSUMERS choose..THIS IS THE TYPE OF
LIBERALIZATION I MEAN..OUR OBJECTIVE SHOULD BE TO AVAIL OUR PEOPLE WITH THE
SERVICES & GOODS
It should be the same with POWER & UTILITY..I studied in TALLAHASSEE,
FLORIDA..(STATE CAPITAL) POP 150,000..the city has its own utility company,
I am positive that small Gambian or Foreign or Joint ventures can
accelerate ELECTRIFICATION in the GAMBIA if legally allowed and UHC adopts
a cooperative posture..i.e use of poles and even cables at cost...this
service may be more expensive than the NATIONAL but may be better or more
reliable..again the CHOICE should be there..I know of a collection of
individuals in Yundum Village who currrently operate a 640kva generator set
and could supply up to 100 compounds..but are currently seeking permission
to offer this service in a place where the residents are willing and
prepared to bear the costs..permission is still pending as the MONOPOLY of
GUC-UHC is intact.
I maintain that GOVT. should try to provide basic services EDUCATION,
HEALTHCARE, WATER & ELECTRICITY, AIRPORTS, ROADS, SEAPORTS
etc but PRIVATE CAPITAL should be encouraged ...
NOW why is this simple way not prevailing despite Africa's great movement
away from CENTRALIZATION..the reasons are obvious..
GOVERNMENT is still CENTRAL..the DIVISIONS are still governed by
COMMISSIONERS appointed by the HEAD OF STATE or through the GOVERNMENT not
elected..they still hold EXECUTIVE & JUDICIAL POWERS..pretty much as the
COLONIAL RULER..
Our Planners are the same from the early independence era..the great
believers in CENTRALIZATION because of the early rejection of COLONIALIST
CAPITALISM and the POWERS inherent with CENTRALIZATION..so LIBERALIZATION
is still half hearted and half-implemented..i will cap on personal
experiences
on my next issue and I still invite comments..so long
peace
pmj
----------
> From: binta@iuj.ac.jp
> To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: Development of subsaharan Africa
> Date: Sunday, August 03, 1997 6:56 AM
>
> Mr. PMJallow,
>
> Thanks for your comments on some very important issues. however, I am
> very much interested in the last part of your this last article that
> touches on the liberalisation of the utilities and telecommunications
> sectors in the Gambia. I guess you will elaborate on these.
>
> You also talked about the award of two-year master degrees to Africans
> by British institutions . What do you mean by this? It seems I am
> a little confused.
>
> Lamin.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 11:58:11 +0200
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Asbj=F8rn_Nordam?= <asbjorn.nordam@dif.dk>
To: "'gambia'" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Development of subsaharan Africa
Message-ID: <9B236DF9AF96CF11A5C94044F32190311010C0@dkdifs02.dif.dk>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Pa Musa Jalow and Abdoulie Dibba, thanks a lot for your contributions.
Now we come close to what I=B4m asking for. Let me first say that most =
of
it only get me to repeat what I have been saying since my first visit =
to
your country in 1979: Focus and priority should be put on:=20
-education
- agriculture- food production and -manufactury- and export
- infrastructure - clean water supply for every compound,
sanitary, electricity (river-/wind-/solarcell-energy) for every
compound, roads-traffic (river-transportation ?)
- primary health care etc...
And the future is in your own hands (DEPENDENCY) and you must believe
and trust in yourself (ATTITUDE).
Thanks for the example: As an educated engineer you are payed an annual
salary of $ 2700, but the WHITE consultant is payed up to $ 250.000.
When I earlier asked what should a decent salary be, I was thinking
exactly on this problem. How can anyone expect any of you, who is =
needed
in the Gambia, to go home and serve the country, the people, if your =
are
not appreciated. I asked for "every-day-heroes" and "people to look up
to", and I asked for both sacrifices but also respect for you and your
jobs.
Let=B4s say that a decent salary for an engineer should be $ 3.000 or
4.000 or 5.000 so they could raise a family, help the extended family,
there could still be employed 40 to 50 skilled, educated gambian
engineers for the amount that one FOREIGN consultant is payed.
And that is only engineers, what about those of you who are educated
into medicine, agriculture, computor-technology, science etc.=20
The "brain-drain" must be stopped. And to me it=B4s only a question on
WILL and PLANNING.
That was my comment.
Now a personal question. Why do you emphazise it is a WHITE consultant =
?
Could it not have been a BLACK one, from USA f.in. ?
And for the information. It=B4s only 50 years since all danish children
got the chance of comming to school, in rural areas up til 30 years =
ago,
they only whent every second day, and not when their work was needed in
the farming. It was in the eaarly =B460=B4s we got enough public =
schools.
It=B4s not more than 20 years ago that we, living in the "far west", =
has
got our own highschools, so youngsters from our part of the country
could also get the chance of getting better education, and it=B4s only
within the last 10 years time, that up to 50 % of a class/year =
continued
to highschool. So we are not so much ahead of the Gambia.
In the periods when the european incursions took place, at the same =
time
most of the european countries were fighting each others, killings,
burnings, oppression, and at the same period we had the highest
migration-figures ever seen, many millions of europeans emigrated to
USA, Canada, Australia, etc. If we can understand why the europeans
managed to do all this, then we can learn from our history. As you =
maybe
don=B4t always want to be grouped under the mass-designation "africa =
south
of Sahara", you must understand, that we "europeans" never has
understand each others as one people - "europeans". It=B4s the opposite
that characterize us. We see each other as different nationalities,
which has very little (or some should say very much ) in commen. The
"blind" competition among us, is the glove that bind us. (PS: I have
just heard on the radion that the muslims who under protection and
promises returned to their Bosnian homes, has been threatened out
again, the authourities who should protect them has just offered =
busses,
so they could get rid of them even faster, and the etnic cleansning
continues. That=B4s also Europe). Asbj=F8rn Nordam
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 13:45:13 +-300
From: BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
To: "'gambia-l@u.washington.edu'" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: RE: LALA???
Message-ID: <01BCA0DC.A525D2E0@ddaj.qatar.net.qa>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BCA0DC.A52D7400"
------ =_NextPart_000_01BCA0DC.A52D7400
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
You could say: "nbeng lala" meaning I want to lie down Or you could say: =
"kaa lala" meaning to arrange a number of things piece by piece beside =
each other.
Regards Bassss!
----------
From: EStew68064@aol.com[SMTP:EStew68064@aol.com]
Sent: 03 =D4=DA=C8=C7=E4, 1997 23:00
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
Subject: LALA???
SAMBUJANG- GR. DAVID GAMBLE WOULD LIKE TO KNOW IF THERE IS A MANDINKA =
WORD
"LALA." ALSO, WHAT DOES THIS WORD MEAN. ANYONE KNOW OUT THERE?
BARRAKA...LIZ STEWART FATTY
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 20:18:10 +0900 (JST)
From: binta@iuj.ac.jp
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Development of subsaharan Africa
Message-ID: <199708041112.UAA09561@mlsv.iuj.ac.jp>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Gambia-l,
Sorry for this bla..bla..bla as some may prefer to see it! Anyway, i
think Absjorn has a point when he asked PMJ about the emphasis on
'WHITE consultant'. Of course countries like Gambia do get a let of
white consultants, but we do get some black and some not-so-white ones
too. Nonetheless, the picture remains the same. Consultants from
outside tend to get more money and perks than those from within. An
enigma that seems natural in most places! The bottom line here is that
the world has changed and so must we. We must begin to reward merit
based on experience, training, and of course track record!
Mr. PM Jallow, thanks again for a good piece. I am just wondering how
the privatisation of the telecommunications sector in the gambia is
going to work. Imagine that the current demand for telephone lines is
a mere 45,000 (installed plus backlogs)! How profitable will it be for
private entrepreneurs to enter this market, let alone stay in it. What
drives the utilities industry most is market size. The world over,
at least in finance, it is established that utility firms have constant
revenue and low profitability margin. They survive because cost is
spread over the huge customer base. I therefore fail to see how
competitive a liberalised telecommunications/utilities sector can be in
The Gambia--unless of course we are talking about a borderless ECOWAS
with its huge market potential! In any case, the corporate governance
system in parastatals is in dire need of a revamp. How to make these
CEOs and their management more responsible to the Gambian people is the
question--the selection of board of directors and top management,
executive compensation systems, means of consumer representation in the
absence of shareholders are all areas that require consideration. That
way telephone rates may go down, Gamtel's backlog of orders may shrink
and result in more revenue for the 'giant', electricity supply could be
less erratic and available to many.
In sum, I think a closer look at the existing corporate structure in
these important parastatals will yield better results than another
wave of privatisation and liberalisation. Just a thought.
Lamin.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 14:20:31 +-300
From: BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
To: "'gambia-l@u.washington.edu'" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: RE: Internet awareness seminar
Message-ID: <01BCA0E1.952A62C0@ddaj.qatar.net.qa>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BCA0E1.952A62C0"
------ =_NextPart_000_01BCA0E1.952A62C0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
One obstacle I am concerned about though in the development of a =
"Internet community" in The Gambia is the lack of "Nerds".
You might laugh but the point here is that these groups of boys and =
girls using big parts of their teen-years playing around with
computers ten/fifteen years ago in Europe,US,UK, today is the backbone =
of resource people developing and creating the Internet.
One simple example is the largest software company Microsoft, with true =
to the bone "Nerd" Bill Gates.
I believe the enabling of such groups would go a long way to let The =
Gambia be somebody in the "Global village".
Regards,
Torstein Grotnes
Manager & Secretary
Commit Enterprises Ltd.
Address: 6 M-section, Fajara, PMB 717, Serrekunda, The Gambia, WA
Tel: +220 392667 Fax: +220 375890 E-mail: tgr@commit.gm
Mr.Grotnes!
The point you raised in your last paragraph is crucial indeed,if =
Gambia is to make any headway in the informaion age.So,thanks for the =
good work down there!
Regards Bassss!
----------
From: The Gambia-L shadow list[SMTP:gambia-l@commit.gm]
Sent: 04 =D4=DA=C8=C7=E4, 1997 5:25
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
Subject: Internet awareness seminar
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 11:28:31 0000
From: "N.JARJU" <CD6C6JNJ@swansea.ac.uk>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: GambiaNet Advisory Board
Message-ID: <43D6461D81@CCUGRAD2.SWAN.AC.UK>
ATTENTION Latir Downes- Thomas.
In response to your request I wish to attest my willingness to serve
on the board if so I am deemed qualified.
I am an Education Economist; and have taught for many years in
Gambia's primary and secondary schools. As of 1994, I have been
designated to the role of Education Planner / Economist. Currently, I
am completing a degree in M. Sc. ( Econs. ) Development Policy and
Planning, at the Centre Of Development Studies, University of Wales
Swansea.
A couple of weeks ago, I was in Cardiff and read some information on The Gambia
that is out-dated and miss informing. As a result, if we Gambians
can have of the opportunity to supply correct and current information to
the world, why won't we do so. Therefore I am willing to supply the
Net with information on education and related matters as much as
possible.
The only problem remains that, I shall be going back to the Gambia
soon and although we have computers in the Division, we do not have
the e-mail package. Once that is sorted out, and when I shall be at
home working purely on professional matters ( outside rigourous
"Academic Slavery" requiring meeting dead-lines,) I hope to be able to
render a service as may be required of me.
My apology to the Net for not being able to introduce myself since then.
As of end of September '97, I can be contacted on this address: PLANNING
DIVISION, Ministry of Education, Bedford Place Building, Banjul.
Thanx for the good work. Keep it up.
NYAKS.
................................................................................
Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 02:03:43 -0400
Reply-to: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
From: Latir Downes-Thomas <latir@earthlink.net>
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: GambiaNet Advisory Board
X-To: Gambia-L <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Dear List Members,
The GambiaNet Board of Directors wishes to announce that we are seeking
candidates with **legal expertise** to assist us in the capacity of
Advisory Board Members.
Under our draft Bylaws, the definition and duties of the Advisory Board
are as follows:
SECTION (3) ADVISORY BOARD
(A) DEFINED: There shall be an Advisory Board which will consist of
members of the Organization appointed by the Board.
(B) DUTIES: The function of the Advisory Board shall be to examine
issues and questions presented by the Board as to options and courses of
actions available to the Board.
If you are selected by the Board of Directors to be an Advisory Board
member you will be an invaluable member of the organisation. From time
to time issues may arise or questions may be asked and help from
professionals or those with a working knowledge of the issue at hand
will be greatly needed.
At this time, the Board of Directors is seeking to appoint those members
of the list who have legal backgrounds to join the Advisory Board for a
term of one year. Since the Board of Directors has the ultimate
responsibility for the GambiaNet Organisation, initially, we wish to
seek comment from "legal minds" on our draft Bylaws before formally
adopting them and on an impending business contract.
The Bylaws state clearly that the members of the Advisory Board must
come from the Membership of GambiaNet so the Board of Directors will
grant Advisory Board members full membership to GambiaNet and membership
fees will be waived.
If you are someone with a legal background or studying law, and have the
intention of joining GambiaNet, we ask that you kindly consider helping
us by joining this Board and playing a vital role in this new exciting
cyberspace venture! This initial request is for three members and the
duties as stated in the Bylaws are purely advisory. Any help sought by
the Board of Directors will be divided among the members so that any
work with the Organisation will add just a minimal workload to your
schedules.
If you are interested, please send a request to my email address:
latir@earthlink.net
Please include a brief account of your professional background that also
includes the number of years in the mentioned profession(s), and your
current country of residence.
GambiaNet, as you may have already been informed, is a non profit,
apolitical membership based organisation registered in Chicago,
Illinois, USA. It was founded by a group of Gambians from the Internet
based "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List" who
initially came together to provide a means of putting a Gambian based
newspaper on the Internet for the Gambian Internet community.
That project, called Observer Online, is now coming into fruition as
part of the services to be offered by GambiaNet to its members.
As stated in our draft Bylaws, GambiaNet shall:
"...operate exclusively for not-for-profit purposes within the meaning
of section 501(c)(3) of the United States Internal Revenue Code to
promote through its members the social, cultural, informational and
educational interests of the Gambia throughout the world. It shall:
1. Provide for the dissemination of informational, educational and
literary material from and about the Gambia to the Internet and
other media.
2. Bring and share information about the social, economic and political
developments in The Gambia.
3. Provide a forum for exchanging ideas and for discussions on
matters related to The Gambia.
4. Promote matters related to The Gambia and Gambian or African
cultural heritage.
5. Raise funds for educational purposes in the Gambia and the Gambian
diaspora.
6. Include other activities related to Gambia agreed upon by the Board
of Directors.
7. Operate on a politically impartial basis and shall not render
support or endorsement to, nor shall it denounce, any political
group or party in The Gambia and abroad."
Thank you for your kind cooperation.
Sincerely,
Latir Gheran Downes-Thomas
latir@earthlink.net
Public Relations Representative
GambiaNet
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 13:45:37 +0200
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Asbj=F8rn_Nordam?= <asbjorn.nordam@dif.dk>
To: "'gambia'" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Our man in Ministry of education.
Message-ID: <9B236DF9AF96CF11A5C94044F32190311010C2@dkdifs02.dif.dk>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Mr. N. Jarju,
Thanks for the information. I see no problem only possibilities. You
will be "our man in the Bulls Eye". Be sure that I will knock on your
door, when I come to visit The Gambia in october/november. I am sure
that you will do a fine work on planning the nearest future of
education. Congratulation on the future job. Asbj=F8rn Nordam
Therefore I am willing to supply the Net with information on education
and related matters as much as possible.
The only problem remains that, I shall be going back to the Gambia=20
soon and although we have computers in the Division, we do not have=20
the e-mail package. Once that is sorted out, and when I shall be at=20
home working purely on professional matters ( outside rigourous=20
"Academic Slavery" requiring meeting dead-lines,) I hope to be able to=20
render a service as may be required of me.
My apology to the Net for not being able to introduce myself since
then.
As of end of September '97, I can be contacted on this address:
PLANNING=20
DIVISION, Ministry of Education, Bedford Place Building, Banjul. =20
Thanx for the good work. Keep it up.
NYAKS.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 13:48:23 +0200
From: Andrea Klumpp <klumpp@kar.dec.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: GambiaNet Advisory Board
Message-ID: <33E5C187.14DA@kar.dec.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hello List-members,
I must have missed some information: who is the board of directors?
GambiaNet seems to cover widespread activities, going far beyond
bringing the Observer online as initially planned. Would somebody
therefore please inform me and others, what functions GambiaNet is going
to have, how the NGO relates to intends to co-operate with the "rest" of
the list and who the directors are?
Thank you,
Andrea
>
> Dear List Members,
>
> The GambiaNet Board of Directors wishes to announce that we are seeking
> candidates with **legal expertise** to assist us in the capacity of
> Advisory Board Members.
> snip
> GambiaNet, as you may have already been informed, is a non profit,
> apolitical membership based organisation registered in Chicago,
> Illinois, USA.
snip
> That project, called Observer Online, is now coming into fruition as
> part of the services to be offered by GambiaNet to its members.
>
> As stated in our draft Bylaws, GambiaNet shall:
snip
> 1. Provide for the dissemination of informational, educational and
> literary material from and about the Gambia to the Internet and
> other media.
> 5. Raise funds for educational purposes in the Gambia and the Gambian
> diaspora.
> 6. Include other activities related to Gambia agreed upon by the Board
> of Directors.
> Thank you for your kind cooperation.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Latir Gheran Downes-Thomas
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 10:54:23 -0500
From: hghanim@nusacc.org
To: MJawara@aol.com, gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: RE: Summer Jam
Message-ID: <QQdbdu27124.199708041530@relay7.UU.NET>
What is the fundraising for??
hg
-----Original Message-----
From: MJawara@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, August 02, 1997 5:15 PM
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Fwd: Summer Jam
<< File: ENVELOPE.TXT >>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
---------------------
Forwarded message:
Subj: Summer Jam
Date: 97-08-02 17:18:57 EDT
From: MJawara
To: gambia-1@u.washington.edu
The Gambian Support Group cordially invites you to a fundraising party on
saturday August 30 ( Labor Day Weekend ) at the Marriott Hotel (
Washington
Ballroom ) in Gaithersburg, Maryland.Complimentary drinks and hors
d'oeuvres
will be provided in the Executive Lounge.
Music will be provided by DJ SHAKI & RHYTHM KING PRODUCTION.
$10.00 (COVER CHARGE )
Proper Attire Required.
D'ont miss an evening of great entertaiment and ambiance.
DIRECTIONS : Take I - 495 West to 270 North.Take Exit 9B at Sam Eig
Highway
West.Then turn left onto Fields Road, and left again onto Rio Blvd.;
which
becomes Washington Blvd.Pass the Rio Entertaiment complex and turn left
into
the Hotel entrance.
**************************************
National U.S.-Arab Chamber of Commerce
1100 New York Avenue, N.W.
Suite 550 East Tower
Washington, D.C. 20005
Voice: (202) 289-5920
Fax: (202) 289-5938
**************************************
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 11:05:06 PDT
From: "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Fwd: Nigerian Music Superstar Dies at 58 (fwd)
Message-ID: <199708041805.LAA24611@f43.hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
>> August 3, 1997
>>
>> Nigerian Music Superstar Dies at 58
>> --------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Filed at 3:08 p.m. EDT
>>
>> By The Associated Press
>>
>> LAGOS, Nigeria (AP) -- Fela Anikulapo-Kuti, a pop
>> superstar who fused rock with African rhythms into
>> a blend known as ``Afrobeat'' and was a persistent
>> critic of Nigeria's military regime, has died of
>> AIDS, his family said Sunday. He was 58.
>>
>> The flamboyant singer's death Saturday was
>> announced by his brother, Olikoye Ransome-Kuti, in
>> a statement broadcast on national television. No
>> cause of death was given at the time. Throngs of
>> stunned, tearful fans gathered outside Fela's
>> nightclub, the Shrine, after hearing the news.
>>
>> Ransome-Kuti, a doctor and former health minister,
>> joined other family members at a news conference
>> Sunday and confirmed that Fela had died of heart
>> failure caused by AIDS. That immediately raised
>> questions about whether any of Fela's 27 wives had
>> contracted the disease.
>>
>> Fela, known across the continent by his first
>> name, was one of the dominant superstars of
>> African music in the 1970s and 1980s and had
>> recorded more than 50 albums.
>>
>> He also became famous for his songs criticizing
>> the military junta of Gen. Sani Abacha, as well as
>> earlier military regimes in Nigeria, West Africa's
>> most populous nation.
>>
>> ``Fela was a great legend who used his music
>> tirelessly to bring about social justice,'' said
>> Rasheed Gbadamosi, a prominent businessman and
>> writer.
>>
>> Fela, a saxophone player, was born in 1938 in
>> Abeokuta, about 50 miles north of the capital,
>> Lagos. He started out as a jazz musician but
>> shifted toward pop and reggae while studying at
>> Trinity College of Music in Oxford, England, from
>> 1959 to 1962.
>>
>> He also spent time in Ghana and the United States,
>> where he developed a strong interest in politics
>> and civil rights. Returning to Nigeria for good in
>> 1973, he swiftly became a big star. His top albums
>> included ``Zombie,'' ``Army Arrangement'' and
>> ``Vagabond in Power.''
>>
>> ``For us, he was a monument, a reference point,''
>> prize-winning singer Lokua Kanza of Congo told The
>> Associated Press in Paris. ``To hear him was like
>> a blast of fresh air, a shock.''
>>
>> He became enmeshed in a long-running confrontation
>> with military authorities because of his urging
>> that young Nigerians become more politically
>> active. Troops burned down Fela's house in 1977.
>>
>> In 1979, Fela and his entourage of wives and
>> girlfriends went to the ruling junta's
>> headquarters and placed the coffin of his recently
>> deceased mother on the steps. Fela said he wanted
>> to demonstrate that the power of the state was
>> impotent compared to the power of the human
>> spirit.
>>
>> Fela was convicted of illegally exporting foreign
>> currency in 1984 and was sentenced to 10 years in
>> prison. A year later, the military government of
>> Gen. Muhammed Buhari was overthrown by Gen.
>> Ibrahim Babangida, who freed Fela.
>>
>> In March 1996, Fela's home was attacked by gunmen.
>> His most recent arrest came April 9. He and about
>> 100 others -- including several of his wives --
>> were detained for marijuana use by police drug
>> agents who raided his nightclub north of Lagos.
>>
>> Fela's fans had known for weeks that he was ill,
>> but few details about his condition were made
>> public before his death.
>>
>> Ransome-Kuti, who once worked as deputy
>> director-general of the World Health Organization,
>> used Sunday's news conference to accuse the
>> Nigerian government of failing to implement
>> effective AIDS programs. He said AIDS cases at
>> Lagos University Hospital had risen from less than
>> 10 annually to more than 300 since 1992.
>>
>> Another brother of Fela's -- Beko Ransome-Kuti --
>> is an outspoken political dissident who was
>> sentenced to 15 years in prison last year for
>> alleged participation in a coup plot.
>>
>> Home | Sections | Contents | Search | Forums | Help
>>
>> Copyright 1997 The New York Times Company
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 15:14:29 -0400
From: Latir Downes-Thomas <latir@earthlink.net>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: GambiaNet: In response to Andrea's message
Message-ID: <33E62A15.54715248@earthlink.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Andrea and fellow List members,
Thank you for your message. Before directly answering your questions I
would first like to refer you to a message sent by Numukunda Darboe on
behalf of the Observer Online Team (formally the Technical and Steering
committees) on Thursday 26 June, 1997 to the Gambia-L mailing list.
While I will re-send that message shortly, the following is an excerpt
that I believe relates to the questions asked:
"In order to legally provide a non-taxable US-based online news service,
a non-profit and non-political organization called GambiaNet has been
formed. The online news service will be offered through GambiaNet.
Therefore, having access to the observer will be a result of GambiaNet's
services to its members. Instead of having the site under a subsidiary
of www.xsite.net, we have adopted a domain for it. The domain name will
be www.gambianet.org. For legal and tax reasons, only membership fee
for GambiaNet will be charged, and only the members will access the
observer online and other important stuff. As I stated earlier, the
membership fee will be $20.00. For those of you who have pledged to pay
$10.00, you may send that as donation and ask for a fee waiver. The
committee will decide on whether the waiver should be granted or not."
As you are probably aware, last year Gambia-L list members decided to
form two committees, a technical and steering, to try and get the
project dubbed "Observer Online" off the ground. Anyone on the list
with an interest in joining those committees, which were subsequently
referred to as the "Observer Online Team", was free to do so. They were
headed by Francis Njie and N'Deye Marie Njie. I was, for example, asked
to join to help put together the questionnaire that helped gauge list
member's overall response to the project and I have stayed on since.
In order to get the organisation registered, bylaws and articles of
incorporation had to be drawn up and at least three directors had to be
named by law. To facilitate all this we decided to convert the team,
the incorporators of GambiaNet Inc., into the Board of Directors so that
officers could be officially appointed and the Bylaws adopted for
registration. As stated in the draft Bylaws (which I will send
shortly), after the first year the Board shall be elected on an annual
basis by the organisation's members. The Board of Directors (present
name) or the Executive Board (future name) comprises the founders of
GambiaNet, the former Observer Online Team. Spread across the USA,
Denmark and Qatar, they are: Momodou Camara (Secretary), Soffie Ceesay,
Numukunda Darboe (Asst. Sec.), Bassirou Dodou Drammeh, Latir
Downes-Thomas, Ndey Kumba Drammeh (Treasurer), Momodou Jagana (Asst.
Treas.), Tony Loum, Francis Njie (Chairman), N'deye Marie Njie (Vice
Chairman), Isatou Secka and Abdourahman Touray.
These were the initial steps that were necessary so that the
organisation could be a legal entity and so that we could formally begin
enlisting members. We are about to begin the process of enlisting
members but since the Observer Online will be our primary service and
the one that members will consider the primary reason for joining the
organisation, we will wait until the contract with the Observer is drawn
and agreed upon before requesting membership, fees and finally beginning
the service. This will be done as soon as the Observer Company has
sorted out their technical problems.
The initial funds to help set up the organisation were drawn from team
members. Because the contract with the Observer Company is not
complete, we cannot explain the terms but we can say that most of the
revenue from the membership fees collected will go towards paying the
Observer Company for the Observer Online service. The rest will go
towards the costs of running the GambiaNet site where the Observer
Online page will be located.
In forming the organistion we have tried to make the scope of our
potential activities as broad as possible allowing for other similar
endeavours in the future and for political and financial reasons, to
prevent the Organisation from being seen as solely a conduit of the
Daily Observer. The following is what the team has agreed on and is from
our Bylaws but is should be known that for the time being our primary
focus will be on establishing and running the Observer Online service
and working with the Education Committee.
1. Provide for the dissemination of informational, educational and
literary material from and about the Gambia to the Internet and other
media.
2. Bring and share information about the social, economic and political
developments in The Gambia.
3. Provide a forum for exchanging ideas and for discussions on
matters related to The Gambia.
4. Promote matters related to The Gambia and Gambian or African
cultural heritage.
5. Raise funds for educational purposes in the Gambia and the Gambian
diaspora.
6. Include other activities related to Gambia agreed upon by the Board
of Directors.
7. Operate on a politically impartial basis and shall not render
support or endorsement to, nor shall it denounce, any political group or
party in The Gambia and abroad.
While the Observer Online service will only be accessible to our
members, the GambiaNet web site will be open to all with access to the
World Wide Web. It is our goal to make the GambiaNet web site the top
Gambian resource on the Internet and with this in mind, any other
activity that falls under the above (description of GambiaNet
activities) will be funded by donations, any revenue derived from
advertising, funding from project partners, and other sources. Any or
all those options will be used depending on the activity or project.
You asked us to explain "how the NGO relates to [and] intends to
co-operate with the "rest" of the list."
Some time ago, a poll was taken and about 100 of the 200+ Gambia-L
members indicated their willingness to subscribe to an Observer Online
Service. Since then others have expressed their interest. As has been
explained here, the only feasible way of providing this service was by
the steps we have taken that have lead to the forming of the GambiaNet
Organisation. Taking all this into consideration, it is our belief that
the Organistion was born from the Gambia-L list but once established
will remain a closely linked but separate entity.
Many members who expressed interest in and eventually formed an
education committee have asked that GambiaNet also be used for among
other purposes, co-ordination and fund raising. We agreed and amended
our draft bylaws appropriately but we would like to make it clear that
any activities in this area will be run entirely by the already
established Gambia-L Education Committee. Many of us, GambiaNet Board
members, are on this Committee and will do everything to help facilitate
its activities but only with the consent of the Committee. One of us,
Bassirou Dodou Drammeh, has been liaising with Malanding Jaiteh of the
Education Committee to determine plans of action.
Bass and myself have recently been appointed Public Relations
Representatives and we will continue to inform Gambia-L of our progress,
activities and all other matters related to GambiaNet.
If you have any other questions please feel free to ask them.
Sincerely,
Latir Gheran Downes-Thomas
Public Relations Representative
GambiaNet
latir@earthlink.net
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 15:25:29 -0400
From: Latir Downes-Thomas <latir@earthlink.net>
To: Gambia-L <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: [Fwd: GambiaNet Progress Report- 26/6/97]
Message-ID: <33E62CA9.6260E239@earthlink.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------C0F7B4A6595063E80F70017A"
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------C0F7B4A6595063E80F70017A
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
The following was sent on June 26, 1997 and is being sent in reference
to GambiaNet's response to Andrea Klumpp's message dated August 4, 1997.
Thanks,
Latir Gheran Downes-Thomas
Public Relations Representative
GambiaNet
latir@earthlink.net
--------------C0F7B4A6595063E80F70017A
Content-Type: message/rfc822
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline
Received: from lists3.u.washington.edu (root@lists3.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.3])
by holland.it.earthlink.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA23708;
Thu, 26 Jun 1997 16:11:01 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13])
by lists3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.04/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP
id QAA17163; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 16:10:13 -0700
Received: from mx3.u.washington.edu (mx3.u.washington.edu [140.142.13.230])
by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.04/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP
id QAA28830 for <gambia-l@lists.u.washington.edu>; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 16:09:39 -0700
Received: from sunset.backbone.olemiss.edu (sunset.backbone.olemiss.edu [130.74.1.71])
by mx3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.04/8.8.4+UW97.04) with SMTP
id QAA01790 for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 16:09:36 -0700
Received: from ndarboe by sunset.backbone.olemiss.edu via SMTP (950413.SGI.8.6.12/951211.SGI)
for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu> id SAA27557; Thu, 26 Jun 1997 18:09:35 -0500
Message-Id: <ndarboe.1217750881F@sunset.backbone.olemiss.edu>
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 97 18:14:01 EDT
Reply-To: ndarboe@sunset.backbone.olemiss.edu
Sender: GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu
Precedence: bulk
From: "Numukunda Darboe(Mba)" <ndarboe@sunset.backbone.olemiss.edu>
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: GambiaNet Progress Report
X-To: "The Gambia and Related Issues Mailng List" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
X-Mailer: VersaTerm Link v1.1.1
X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN
We welcome our newest members to Gambia-L; the largest audience of
Gambians and friends of the Gambia abroad. We apologize for the tardiness
of this progress report which is long overdue. For those of you new members
who may not be aware that we are on the process of getting a Gambian
newspaper on the internet, I take this opportunity to inform you that a
committee, out of this list, has been formed to undertake this formidable task.
A while ago, a questionnaire which is readily available through the
committee has been sent to every member of the list to ensure better quality
service to all subscribers. From the results, we were able to confer that a
$20.00 would suffice the expenses necessary to carry out this task on
condition that we are able to maintain the over 100 potential members who
have pledged to subscribe. Although there are quite a number of people who
have pledged to pay more than this amount.
We have been hosting trial issues at http://www.xsite.net/~c3p0/observer.
This site is one of the committee member's home page. The abrupt
discontinuation of trials is because the internet service provider of our
correspondent in the Gambia had problems, and therefore we were not able to
receive any news letters from the Observer. we will soon resume these trial
issues since the Observer has a new internet service provider. Under the
trials, we only provide the text with no images. We may continue with this
format, but in the future we intend to include some advertisements not
necessarily from the Observer's print version, but could be from other
parties that are interested in making advertisements through GambiaNet.
In order to legally provide a non-taxable US-based online news service, a
non-profit and non-political organization called GambiaNet has been formed.
The online news service will be offered through GambiaNet. Therefore,
having access to the observer will be a result of GambiaNet's services to
its members. Instead of having the site under a subsidiary of www.xsite.net,
we have adopted a domain for it. The domain name will be www.gambianet.org.
For legal and tax reasons, only membership fee for GambiaNet will be
charged, and only the members will access the observer online and other
important stuff. As I stated earlier, the membership fee will be $20.00. For
those of you who have pledged to pay $10.00, you may send that as donation
and ask for a fee waiver. The committee will decide on whether the waiver
should be granted or not.
Some time ago, an announcement was made through the list concerning the
adoption of a logo for the organization. Different designs were invited from
list members, and the winner was going to have a free one year subscription.
Only one person submitted, and it was a very illustrious work. He became the
automatic winner. However, he decline the one year free membership, and
decided to pay. This person is one of our own committee members Mr. Momodou
Camara. The logo can be viewed at:
"http://home3.inet.tele.dk/mcamara/logo.htm" This is just one example of how
dedicated these committee members are not to mention the various tasks
undertaken to obtain certain information including calling the Gambia out of
their own pockets. The committee members have already paid their
subscriptions in order to start things rolling. The bylaws of the
organization are on the process of being drafted and soon as they are ready,
they will be made available to the list.
GambiaNet site will both host contents from and be linked to other
organizations related to the Gambia. A search tool will be available for a
keyword search in GambiaNet. Under the GambiaNet, will be the Observer
online which will be accessible only by password. Once you login, you will
be able to do such things as sending letters to the editor, you can have
access to the archives (old issues), and even make a key word or date or
both searches on the archives. Ideas on improving the site are more than
welcome, and members of Gambia-L can put their organizations on condition
that there is an agreement with GambiaNet.
I urge all of those of you who have not pledged to become members to please
do so. Wouldn't it a pride to be one of the first to access to a native
paper online? To be current on issues about the Gambia is the only way to
helping us come up with solutions to our problems. This is the grassroots of
this list.
Numukunda
GambiaNet committee
--------------C0F7B4A6595063E80F70017A--
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 15:47:19 -0400
From: Latir Downes-Thomas <latir@earthlink.net>
To: Gambia-L <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: GambiaNet Bylaws
Message-ID: <33E631C7.E3B14776@earthlink.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
The following is also being sent in reference to the message posted by
Andrea Klumpp on August 4, 1997. It is the latest version of the
GambiaNet, Inc. Bylaws and Articles of Incorporation.
Please note that we are about to have them amended once again but we are
posting them so that list members are better acquainted with the
organisation.
When we are in a position to request membership, we shall properly and
formally introduce GambiaNet and those who express an interest it
joining will either receive a copy of a Membership Agreement or will
have access to it at our web site when it is up and running.
Thank You,
Latir Downes-Thomas
Public Relations Representative
GambiaNet
latir@earthlink.net
********************************
BY-LAWS OF GAMBIANET, INCORPORATED
ARTICLE ONE
IDENTITY
SECTION (1) NAME: The name of this organization shall be GambiaNet,
Incorporated, and it shall be referred to in these By-laws as the
Organization.
SECTION (2) AFFILIATE: The Organization may be affiliated with any other
organization agreed upon by the Board of Directors.
ARTICLE TWO
OFFICE
SECTION (1) PRINCIPAL OFFICE: The Principal office and the place of
business of the organization shall be located in Chicago, Illinois, USA
or at such place designated by the Board of Directors.
ARTICLE THREE
PURPOSE
The organization shall operate exclusively for not-for-profit purposes
within the meaning of section 501(c)(3) of the United States Internal
Revenue Code to promote through its members the social, cultural,
informational and educational interests of the Gambia throughout the
world. It shall:
1. Provide for the dissemination of informational, educational and
literary material from and about the Gambia to the Internet and other
media.
2. Bring and share information about the social, economic and political
developments in The Gambia.
3. Provide a forum for exchanging ideas and for discussions on
matters related to the Gambia
4. Promote matters related to the Gambia and Gambian or African
cultural heritage.
5. Raise funds for educational purposes in the Gambia and the Gambian
diaspora.
6. Include other activities related to Gambia agreed upon by the Board
of Directors.
7. Operate on a politically impartial basis and shall not render
support or endorsement to, nor shall it denounce, any political group or
party in The Gambia and abroad.
ARTICLE FOUR
FISCAL YEAR
The fiscal year of the organization shall begin on the first day of July
of each year and shall end on the last day of June of the following
year.
ARTICLE FIVE
MEMBERSHIP
SECTION (1) GENERAL MEMBERSHIP
Membership shall be open to any individual who expresses an interest in
The Gambia and the activities of the Organization as stated in the
Bylaws and shall be referred to in these By-laws as the General
Membership. Members of the Organization shall be allowed to enjoy all
the privileges of membership agreed upon by the Board of Directors.
SECTION (2) DIRECTORS
(A) DEFINED: There shall be a Board of Directors and it shall be
referred to in these By-laws as the Board. Its members shall consist of
at least three Directors.
(B) ELIGIBILITY: Any individual with an interest in the purpose and
activities of the organization and is willing and able to assist in
meeting the organization's objectives and the conduct of the
organization's activities shall be deemed eligible as a Director.
(C) ELECTION/ APPOINTMENT: After the first year of operation, Directors
shall be elected by members of the Organization on the recommendation
of the Board. Members shall vote by electronic mail or any other method
agreed upon by the Board.
(D) DUTIES: The Board shall be elected to act on behalf of the general
membership of the Organization on the administration of the Organization
and its activities, any activities stated in the articles of
Incorporation, and any activities agreed upon by the Board. All action
taken by the Board shall be deemed agreed upon by resolution passed by a
vote of simple majority unless otherwise specified in the Bylaws. The
Board shall appoint any member to act on its behalf. The Board shall
form any committee or sub-committee on behalf of the Organization.
(E) TERM OF OFFICE: Directors shall be elected and appointed for a term
of one year.
(F) REMOVAL OF A MEMBER: The dismissal of a member of the Board shall be
warranted if the member concerned engages in any repeated action deemed
by the Board to be detrimental to the Organization's interests. Any
member of the Board who engages in any action so deemed by the Board
shall be first warned and if the offending action is repeated, the Board
shall consider the possibility of additional warnings or dismissal.
SECTION (3) ADVISORY BOARD
(A) DEFINED: There shall be an Advisory Board which will consist of
members of the Organization appointed by the Board.
(B) DUTIES: The function of the Advisory Board shall be to examine
issues and questions presented by the Board as to options and courses of
actions available to the Board.
SECTION (4) MEMBERSHIP DUES AND DONATION
(A) DEFINED: The General Membership shall be required to pay annual dues
agreed upon by the Board for various categories of membership defined by
the Board.
(B) DONATIONS: In addition to payment of annual dues, donations from
members as well as non members, will be welcomed.
ARTICLE SIX
MEETINGS
SECTION (1) ANNUAL MEETING: Annual meetings that include the Board and
the General Membership may take place at any time agreed upon by the
Board.
SECTION (2) OTHER MEETINGS: There shall be other regular, committee,
Board or special meetings as necessary in meeting the objectives of the
organization.
SECTION (3) PLACE AND MANNER OF METTINGS: All meetings shall be
conducted in a manner and place agreed upon by the Board.
SECTION (4) NOTICE: The Board shall issue written notices of annual or
special meetings stating the time, place and purpose of the said meeting
in a method agreed upon by the Board.
SECTION (5) ACTIONS BY UNANIMOUS WRITTEN CONSENT: Any action required or
permitted to be taken by the Board may be taken without a meeting, if
all members of the Board shall individually or collectively consent in
writing to such action(s) by a method agreed upon by the Board.
SECTION (6) PROXIES: Proxy voting shall be allowed for all votes by the
Board and the General Membership. The Board shall require reasonable
advance notice, in any manner agreed upon, of the proxy arrangement from
both the member concerned and his or her intended proxy.
ARTICLE SEVEN
ORGANIZATION ACTIONS
SECTION (1) LOANS: No loan shall be contracted on behalf of the
Organization and no evidence of indebtedness shall be issued in the
Organization's name unless authorized by a resolution of the Board.
SECTION (2) CHECKS, DRAFTS ETC. All checks, draft orders for payment of
money shall be signed by an officer or officers as authorized by a
resolution of the Board.
SECTION (3) INDEMNIFICATION. The Organization shall indemnify each of
its Officers or Agents against liabilities and claims arising out of the
reasonable and diligent performance of duties as Officers or Agents of
the Organization. The Individual shall have no right to indemnification,
compensation or reimbursement, however, in liabilities and claims to
which he or she has been adjudged liable to the Organization or any
third party because of willful misconduct, bad faith, gross negligence
or reckless disregard of the duties of his or her office or capacity as
a representative of the Organization.
ARTICLE EIGHT
PROHIBITED ACTIONS
SECTION (1) The Organization shall not possess or exercise any power or
authority either expressly or by interpretation, or by operation of law
that will prevent it, at any time, from qualifying as an Organization
as described in applicable laws of the United States Internal Revenue
Service, nor shall it engage in activities which shall cause the loss of
such qualifications.
SECTION (2) The Organization shall never be operated for the sole and
primary purpose of carrying out a trade or business for profit.
SECTION (3) At no time shall the Organization be engaged in activities
which are unlawful under the laws of the United States or The Gambia or
any other jurisdiction where its activities are carried out.
ARTICLE NINE
INUREMENT OF INCOME
SECTION (1) No part of the earnings of the Organization shall inure to
the benefits of, or distributed to, its Directors, Officers, Agents or
Members except that which the Organization shall be empowered to pay for
reasonable services rendered or reimbursement for personal expenses
incurred on behalf of the Organization.
ARTICLE TEN
AMENDMENTS OF BY-LAWS AND ARTICLES OF INCORPORATION
These By-Laws and Articles of Incorporation can be amended or repealed
and a new Articles of Incorporation and By-Laws may be adopted at any
meeting provided the proposed changes have been submitted to each Board
of Director with the notice of such meeting, and provided further the
right of the waiver of notice shall not apply. In order for amendments
or repeals to be adopted, two thirds (66.7%) of Board members
(Directors) must vote in the affirmative.
ARTICLE ELEVEN
DISSOLUTION
Upon termination or dissolution of the Organization, assets shall be
distributed to, after payments or provisions for payment, of all
liabilities of the Organization which were incurred in furtherance of
legitimate purpose of the Organization, a non-for-profit organization
organized for the purpose of education and development in Africa.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 00:04:14 +0200
From: momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: New members
Message-ID: <19970804230611.AAA39620@LOCALNAME>
Gambia-l,
Lee Jallow has been added to the list. Welcome to the Gambia-l,
Mr.Jallow we look forward to your contributions.
Please send a brief introduction to: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Momodou Camara
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 18:10:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: Momodou Musa Janneh <mmjanneh@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.Washington.edu
Subject: For PAMAMBOUNA BOJANG
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.94.970804175715.19634B-100000@utkux4.cas.utk.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
I need the E-Mail address of PAMAMBOUNA BOJANG. If anyone have
it please reply me as soon as possible.I know he's hiding somewhere
in Kentucky with Badaaring.
What's up in the sky doc????
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 18:13:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: EStew68064@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: RE: LALA???
Message-ID: <970804181117_-188123264@emout03.mail.aol.com>
In a message dated 8/4/97 3:47:07 AM, you wrote:
<<You could say: "nbeng lala" meaning I want to lie down Or you could say:
"kaa lala" meaning to arrange a number of things piece by piece beside each
other.
Regards Bassss!
Basss!
Barrakka ning Kaira
Liz Stewart Fatti
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 21:28:40 +0100
From: "The Gambia-L shadow list" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
To: "gambia-l" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Development of SubSaharan Africa 4
Message-ID: <B0000002921@south.commit.gm>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
This is forwarded from "Pa Musa Jallow" <pmj@commit.gm>
(pmj@commit.gm)
People,
First, I am eager for some comments and feedback..I want this discourse to
be interactive..some of my positions I think are very controversial and I
leave a lot of openings so please people..jump in..and let me defend my
flanks..there should not be any quarters in the BANTABA...
......it seems traditinally our socialism is derived from our societal
make-up..we tend to share..selfish-ism is frown upon and it is our
house..not my house..SUNU KERR not SUMA KERR and also it is I believe a
REACTION against CAPITALIST EXPLOITATION of Africa..the sale of HUMANS is
the ULTIMATE CAPITALISM
30 years after ..Africans are moving away from Scientific SOCIALISM in the
form of CENTRAL PLANNING..it has failed us and it has failed mostly
everywhere..but more succinctly..the ANTI-WEALTH posture of Scientific
Socialism.the idea that all WEALTH must be derived from the Exploitation of
Man by Man is very UN-AFRICAN.. We have I believe a SUPERIOR FORM of SOCIAL
WELFARISM..that acknowledges and rewards INDIVIDUALS that share WEALTH by
the EXTENDED FAMILY, by POLYGAMY and even the freedom of relation amongst
the SEXES..
here I am strictly confining my self to AUTHENTIC AFRICAN MORES..not
ISLAMIZED AFRICA nor CHRISTIANIZED AFRICA...the wealthier an AFRICAN was
the more wives he had..and by extension his responsibilty increases..taking
into account the families and relatives of the wives..long time neighbours
are family..distant kinsmen..people sharing the family name and the OPEN
DOOR..anyone is welcome at any time for MEALS, HELP etc..
This is what I called African Social Welfare..but it never tried to prevent
the CREATION of Wealth..Wealth is not GLORIFIED and WORSHIPPED as in the
West but NEITHER is scorned as in SCIENTIFIC SOCIALISM..
Currently most of our policies and ATTITUDE is ANTI-WEALTH.. I support a
progressive Income tax.the more you make the more you pay but not
exorbitant..in fact small people and businesses are the most affected..In
The Gambia for example to set a Limited Liability Company, there is a
PRE-TAX of about D5000 in addition to all licenses and fees..and depending
on how well of you look..the more you may pay..
The Gambia has probably one of the most LIBERAL economic set ups but the
ATTITUDE is still ANTI-WEALTH..it is still ADVERSARIAL..note also that the
CIVIL SERVANTS are still the SAME half- and/or MIS- EDUCATED ones mostly
from the COLONIAL ERA or even with a worse attitude are our SCIENTIFIC
SOCIALISTS..they forget that even the creation of 1 position or job for one
man or
woman that supports ONE FAMILY is enough to warrant thesupport of Govt.
supportive.
In comtemporal Africa we need to concentrate on the CREATION OF WEALTH..we
need 1% of 35000 tax-paying businesses than 35% of 100 tax-paying
businesses..there are no authentic Gambian companies over 20 years
old..they are old bankrupt or defunct..the only ones remaining are Lebanese
or Indian..(this is telling cos if one looks deeply into the matter..you
discoover that on average..the Lebanese and Indians are
poorer-educated..but they have developed a superior network and it seems
we..the Africans work better against each other than with or for each
other..another topic)
I will pause for breath and again folks ..please come in..
bye & peace
pmj
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 22:47:29 +0100
From: "The Gambia-L shadow list" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Develop. of subsaharan Africa :rejoinders
Message-ID: <B0000002922@south.commit.gm>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
This is forwarded from "Pa Musa Jallow" <pmj@commit.gm>
(pmj@commit.gm)
Absjorn & People,
my apologies for the emphasis on WHITE..unfortunately the fact that over
95% of consultants here tend to be WHITE EUROPEANS have resulted in my
oversight..but as you rightly commented..it still does not vary the
facts..a second point is that a cursory survey of all the ADB
...TA.vehicles..that is
African Development Bank..Technical Assistance or Assistant ( that is the
Red Number Plate of ADB contracted consultants..almost all were driven by
whites..it is almost like ADB..TA is for Whites only..these are strong
perceptions even if they are mis-construed)..another reason I guess and I
must admit for my STRONG FEELINGS is that today I RECEIVED A FOUR DAY
SUSPENSION WITHOUT PAY ( amounts to D300 on my D2400 Monthly salary as HEAD
OF CIVIL AERODROME ENGINEERING SECTION at the AIRPORT) for STANDING UP and
DEMANDING TO BE TREATED WITH THE SAME RESPECT THAT WAS ACCORDED MY FORMER
COUNTERPART (CONSULTANT) WHO LEFT 3 MONTHS AGO..This amounted to RUDENESS &
INSURBODINATION ..this is unfortunately THE EXISTING REALITY..I am
considering LEAVING again for the WEST..I am not sorry though because I
chose to STAND up..one DIRECTOR lamented that I was QUITE RIGHT but that is
the WAY things are..he had faced the SAME..Maybe I am dumb..but I think at
the very least..we should speak out..not just secure our places..I may
lose my job but IT IS OKAY..a little PRICE TO PAY
I however appreciate the fact that we (humankind) have come a long way and
where as in this discourse I am concentrating on SubSaharan Africa ..it is
pertinent to a lot of other places..the future as you rightly said is OURS
Mr Lamin,
I will also add you may think 45000 is not a lot but that is the existing
demand on backlog..open up and let the Market dictate..Gamtel opened up so
many possibilities including this discourse..I do not want our existing
lack of financial wherewithal to limit our possibilities..the problem with
our corporate structures I believe is the CIVIL SERVICE MENTALITY..whether
you work or not..produce or not..perform or not..you get paid.you get a
RAISE..there is no incentive to produce and innovate..NO BODY CARES..it is
a NAMELESS, FACELESS and CARELESS system..we all pay the price..everytime a
GAMTEL or UHC FAILS, the tab is picked up mostly by the poor farmers that
produce the BULK of our wealth..there was a funny fact..(which makes it
sad) that GUC blew I think 5 or 6 Generators in so many years..something to
that effect..including a case when one generator was sabotaged by
disgruntled workers..did anyone go to jail? was anyone punished? basically
nobody paid a price for this misdeed that cost this poor nation..everytime
an incompetent person is left on the job..these are dis-services to the
Nation..i) a more competent person was denied the job..ii) the nation loses
for a job not done well or as best as possible..maybe 1 or 2 or one family
was helped..a million pay the price..
a big problem is private sympathy..i feel sorry for him..i feel sorry for a
million..a short true story..2 years ago I was appointed as head of civil
engineering at the airport..my chief mason was atleast 68 years old and
could not even lay a straight wall..a fact..the guy has been there since
time immemorial..was a labourer appointed Chief Mason to give a bigger
salary..every year his contract is renewed and all the relevant persons
will put favourable comments..I came..the guy could not lay a stringht
wall..I demanded a second qualified mason for my works...I was told there
was no vacant position unless I replace this guy..now at the end of
contract..the position was advertised and I proposed to fill it with a
YOUNGER, MORE EDUCATED & COMPETETNT man..everyone called me to lobby for
this poor man..what would happen to his family..now there are 100s of
younger better trained masons waiting and ready to provide for their
families..and that salary is paid by the Gambians to SOMEONE to do the job
so that we make money or maintain a SERVICE in our NATIONAL INTEREST..I
refused of course and there is now a 30 year old man doing an excellent
job..you wonder why the SYSTEM is not working..I believe I KNOW a lot why
the SYSTEM IS NOT WORKING..of course what I did or was supposed to have
done was not POPULAR..PUBLIC OFFICE is not our private domain to help at
will I PERSONALLY feel SORRY but I am HERE to do a JOB not to run a CHARITY
I will stop here for now..
peace
pmj in a fighting mood..
ps..i doubt i can leave..i am here for the marathon..
----------
From: "The Gambia-L shadow list" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Development of subsaharan Africa
Date: Monday, August 04, 1997 10:58 AM
Pa Musa Jalow and Abdoulie Dibba, thanks a lot for your contributions.
Now we come close to what I´m asking for. Let me first say that most of
it only get me to repeat what I have been saying since my first visit to
your country in 1979: Focus and priority should be put on:
-education
- agriculture- food production and -manufactury- and export
- infrastructure - clean water supply for every compound,
sanitary, electricity (river-/wind-/solarcell-energy) for every
compound, roads-traffic (river-transportation ?)
- primary health care etc...
And the future is in your own hands (DEPENDENCY) and you must believe
and trust in yourself (ATTITUDE).
Thanks for the example: As an educated engineer you are payed an annual
salary of $ 2700, but the WHITE consultant is payed up to $ 250.000.
When I earlier asked what should a decent salary be, I was thinking
exactly on this problem. How can anyone expect any of you, who is needed
in the Gambia, to go home and serve the country, the people, if your are
not appreciated. I asked for "every-day-heroes" and "people to look up
to", and I asked for both sacrifices but also respect for you and your
jobs.
Let´s say that a decent salary for an engineer should be $ 3.000 or
4.000 or 5.000 so they could raise a family, help the extended family,
there could still be employed 40 to 50 skilled, educated gambian
engineers for the amount that one FOREIGN consultant is payed.
And that is only engineers, what about those of you who are educated
into medicine, agriculture, computor-technology, science etc.
The "brain-drain" must be stopped. And to me it´s only a question on
WILL and PLANNING.
That was my comment.
Now a personal question. Why do you emphazise it is a WHITE consultant ?
Could it not have been a BLACK one, from USA f.in. ?
And for the information. It´s only 50 years since all danish children
got the chance of comming to school, in rural areas up til 30 years ago,
they only whent every second day, and not when their work was needed in
the farming. It was in the eaarly ´60´s we got enough public schools.
It´s not more than 20 years ago that we, living in the "far west", has
got our own highschools, so youngsters from our part of the country
could also get the chance of getting better education, and it´s only
within the last 10 years time, that up to 50 % of a class/year continued
to highschool. So we are not so much ahead of the Gambia.
In the periods when the european incursions took place, at the same time
most of the european countries were fighting each others, killings,
burnings, oppression, and at the same period we had the highest
migration-figures ever seen, many millions of europeans emigrated to
USA, Canada, Australia, etc. If we can understand why the europeans
managed to do all this, then we can learn from our history. As you maybe
don´t always want to be grouped under the mass-designation "africa south
of Sahara", you must understand, that we "europeans" never has
understand each others as one people - "europeans". It´s the opposite
that characterize us. We see each other as different nationalities,
which has very little (or some should say very much ) in commen. The
"blind" competition among us, is the glove that bind us. (PS: I have
just heard on the radion that the muslims who under protection and
promises returned to their Bosnian homes, has been threatened out
again, the authourities who should protect them has just offered busses,
so they could get rid of them even faster, and the etnic cleansning
continues. That´s also Europe). Asbjørn Nordam
----------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 19:49:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Malanding S. Jaiteh" <msjaiteh@mtu.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Cc: msjaiteh@mtu.edu (Malanding S. Jaiteh)
Subject: Re: GambiaNet: In response to Andrea's message
Message-ID: <199708042349.TAA28440@hemlock.ffr.mtu.edu>
Content-Type: text
Latir you wrote:
>
> Andrea and fellow List members,
>
> Thank you for your message. Before directly answering your questions I
> would first like to refer you to a message sent by Numukunda Darboe on
> behalf of the Observer Online Team (formally the Technical and Steering
> committees) on Thursday 26 June, 1997 to the Gambia-L mailing list.
> While I will re-send that message shortly, the following is an excerpt
> that I believe relates to the questions asked:
>
> "In order to legally provide a non-taxable US-based online news service,
> a non-profit and non-political organization called GambiaNet has been
> formed. The online news service will be offered through GambiaNet.
> Therefore, having access to the observer will be a result of GambiaNet's
> services to its members. Instead of having the site under a subsidiary
> of www.xsite.net, we have adopted a domain for it. The domain name will
> be www.gambianet.org. For legal and tax reasons, only membership fee
> for GambiaNet will be charged, and only the members will access the
> observer online and other important stuff. As I stated earlier, the
> membership fee will be $20.00. For those of you who have pledged to pay
> $10.00, you may send that as donation and ask for a fee waiver. The
> committee will decide on whether the waiver should be granted or not."
>
> As you are probably aware, last year Gambia-L list members decided to
> form two committees, a technical and steering, to try and get the
> project dubbed "Observer Online" off the ground. Anyone on the list
> with an interest in joining those committees, which were subsequently
> referred to as the "Observer Online Team", was free to do so. They were
> headed by Francis Njie and N'Deye Marie Njie. I was, for example, asked
> to join to help put together the questionnaire that helped gauge list
> member's overall response to the project and I have stayed on since.
>
> In order to get the organisation registered, bylaws and articles of
> incorporation had to be drawn up and at least three directors had to be
> named by law. To facilitate all this we decided to convert the team,
> the incorporators of GambiaNet Inc., into the Board of Directors so that
> officers could be officially appointed and the Bylaws adopted for
> registration. As stated in the draft Bylaws (which I will send
> shortly), after the first year the Board shall be elected on an annual
> basis by the organisation's members. The Board of Directors (present
> name) or the Executive Board (future name) comprises the founders of
> GambiaNet, the former Observer Online Team. Spread across the USA,
> Denmark and Qatar, they are: Momodou Camara (Secretary), Soffie Ceesay,
> Numukunda Darboe (Asst. Sec.), Bassirou Dodou Drammeh, Latir
> Downes-Thomas, Ndey Kumba Drammeh (Treasurer), Momodou Jagana (Asst.
> Treas.), Tony Loum, Francis Njie (Chairman), N'deye Marie Njie (Vice
> Chairman), Isatou Secka and Abdourahman Touray.
>
> These were the initial steps that were necessary so that the
> organisation could be a legal entity and so that we could formally begin
> enlisting members. We are about to begin the process of enlisting
> members but since the Observer Online will be our primary service and
> the one that members will consider the primary reason for joining the
> organisation, we will wait until the contract with the Observer is drawn
> and agreed upon before requesting membership, fees and finally beginning
> the service. This will be done as soon as the Observer Company has
> sorted out their technical problems.
>
> The initial funds to help set up the organisation were drawn from team
> members. Because the contract with the Observer Company is not
> complete, we cannot explain the terms but we can say that most of the
> revenue from the membership fees collected will go towards paying the
> Observer Company for the Observer Online service. The rest will go
> towards the costs of running the GambiaNet site where the Observer
> Online page will be located.
>
> In forming the organistion we have tried to make the scope of our
> potential activities as broad as possible allowing for other similar
> endeavours in the future and for political and financial reasons, to
> prevent the Organisation from being seen as solely a conduit of the
> Daily Observer. The following is what the team has agreed on and is from
> our Bylaws but is should be known that for the time being our primary
> focus will be on establishing and running the Observer Online service
> and working with the Education Committee.
>
> 1. Provide for the dissemination of informational, educational and
> literary material from and about the Gambia to the Internet and other
> media.
> 2. Bring and share information about the social, economic and political
> developments in The Gambia.
> 3. Provide a forum for exchanging ideas and for discussions on
> matters related to The Gambia.
> 4. Promote matters related to The Gambia and Gambian or African
> cultural heritage.
> 5. Raise funds for educational purposes in the Gambia and the Gambian
> diaspora.
> 6. Include other activities related to Gambia agreed upon by the Board
> of Directors.
> 7. Operate on a politically impartial basis and shall not render
> support or endorsement to, nor shall it denounce, any political group or
> party in The Gambia and abroad.
>
> While the Observer Online service will only be accessible to our
> members, the GambiaNet web site will be open to all with access to the
> World Wide Web. It is our goal to make the GambiaNet web site the top
> Gambian resource on the Internet and with this in mind, any other
> activity that falls under the above (description of GambiaNet
> activities) will be funded by donations, any revenue derived from
> advertising, funding from project partners, and other sources. Any or
> all those options will be used depending on the activity or project.
>
> You asked us to explain "how the NGO relates to [and] intends to
> co-operate with the "rest" of the list."
>
> Some time ago, a poll was taken and about 100 of the 200+ Gambia-L
> members indicated their willingness to subscribe to an Observer Online
> Service. Since then others have expressed their interest. As has been
> explained here, the only feasible way of providing this service was by
> the steps we have taken that have lead to the forming of the GambiaNet
> Organisation. Taking all this into consideration, it is our belief that
> the Organistion was born from the Gambia-L list but once established
> will remain a closely linked but separate entity.
>
> Many members who expressed interest in and eventually formed an
> education committee have asked that GambiaNet also be used for among
> other purposes, co-ordination and fund raising. We agreed and amended
> our draft bylaws appropriately but we would like to make it clear that
> any activities in this area will be run entirely by the already
> established Gambia-L Education Committee. Many of us, GambiaNet Board
> members, are on this Committee and will do everything to help facilitate
> its activities but only with the consent of the Committee. One of us,
> Bassirou Dodou Drammeh, has been liaising with Malanding Jaiteh of the
> Education Committee to determine plans of action.
>
> Bass and myself have recently been appointed Public Relations
> Representatives and we will continue to inform Gambia-L of our progress,
> activities and all other matters related to GambiaNet.
>
> If you have any other questions please feel free to ask them.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Latir Gheran Downes-Thomas
> Public Relations Representative
> GambiaNet
> latir@earthlink.net
>
Latir,
I should commend you for your efforts to clarify a few issues
Andrea raised. However, there remain a number of things
that are to me confusing and difficult to understand.
It is a good an idea perhaps a necessity to form an umbrella
organization to oversee the different activities Gambia-L members
might want to do. However, the committee that took this task upon
itself made some serious oversights.
First, I would want to know whether the Gambia-l membership had
been informed of the need to form a non-profit organization
inorder to get the Observer online? Has the new organization
replaced Gambia-L? If so has the entire list membership gained
automatic membership to GambiNet Inc?
You mentioned adopting the Bylaws to register the organization,
How can the committe draft and adopt the bylaws for GambiaNet
Inc to register and no word mentioned to the entire Gambia-L membership?
You mentioned that "Because the contract with the Observer
Company is not complete, we cannot explain the terms but we can
say most of the revenue from the membership fees collected will
go towards paying the Observer Company for the Online
service....." Why can't the entire Gambia-L see what deal we are
going into with the Observer?
What do you mean when you say " We agreed and amended our draft
bylaws appropriately but we would like to make it clear that any
activity in this area will be run entirely by the already
established Gambia-L Education Commiittee"?
Finally you mentioned that "..Bassirou Doudou Drammeh, has been
liasing with Malanding Jaiteh of the Education Committee to
determine plans of action." Can Bassirou informed the membership
whatever he and Malanding had liased on the matter.
These are some of the many questions that may help me clarify
things before I can make any comments.
Malanding Jaiteh
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 23:49:34 -0400
From: "PA-MAMBUNA O. BOJANG" <paomar@iglou.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: LALA???
Message-ID: <33E6A2CE.76A3@iglou.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
LIZ:
I don't know if this is what you are looking for, but you could also say
"LALA" meaning trust/believe him/her as in :LA-N'NA meaning
trust/believe me
"ABARAKA"
Pa-Mambuna.
EStew68064@aol.com wrote:
>
> SAMBUJANG- GR. DAVID GAMBLE WOULD LIKE TO KNOW IF THERE IS A MANDINKA WORD
> "LALA." ALSO, WHAT DOES THIS WORD MEAN. ANYONE KNOW OUT THERE?
>
> BARRAKA...LIZ STEWART FATTY
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 23:47:57 PDT
From: "Omar Gassama" <kassama@hotmail.com>
To: paomar@iglou.com, gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: LALA???
Message-ID: <199708050647.XAA22126@f61.hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Hellow Fatty,
I think that the meaning of this word is an arabic origin that means
'no'in arabic. thus,the meaning is "NO NO"for enphasise.
Was salaam
gassama
---Original Message Follows----
Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 23:49:34 -0400
From: "PA-MAMBUNA O. BOJANG" <paomar@iglou.com>
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: LALA???
LIZ:
I don't know if this is what you are looking for, but you could also say
"LALA" meaning trust/believe him/her as in :LA-N'NA meaning
trust/believe me
"ABARAKA"
Pa-Mambuna.
EStew68064@aol.com wrote:
>
> SAMBUJANG- GR. DAVID GAMBLE WOULD LIKE TO KNOW IF THERE IS A MANDINKA
WORD
> "LALA." ALSO, WHAT DOES THIS WORD MEAN. ANYONE KNOW OUT THERE?
>
> BARRAKA...LIZ STEWART FATTY
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 10:11:21 +0200
From: "Momodou S Sidibeh" <momodou.sidibeh@stockholm.mail.telia.com>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: ENQUIRY - JAINABA DIALLO
Message-ID: <199708050817.KAA16284@d1o2.telia.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Hello Jainaba Diallo,
A number of us out here are wondering if you are Jainaba who lives in
Märsta (Sweden) or not. Kindly feel very welcome to this Bantaaba, but
please appreciate that this enquiry is this open as you did not provide us
with an introduction of yourself. Besides, since you are using hotmail, it
is rather impossible to make the enquiry private.
Best regards,
Momodou Sidibeh.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 11:15:25 +0200
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Asbj=F8rn_Nordam?= <asbjorn.nordam@dif.dk>
To: "'gambia'" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: developm. of subsaharan africa
Message-ID: <9B236DF9AF96CF11A5C94044F32190311010C6@dkdifs02.dif.dk>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Pa Musa Jallow,=20
I like your style - it=B4s direct and harsh. But sometimes one has to =
be
so.=20
First tell me how is it possible that you have such a "strange" rules-
and regulation-system in the labour-market, which can cause you a
suspension for standing up and demanding.
It=B4s old-fashion leadership and I have never in modern time heard
anything like that. To be active into discussions, personel planning
interviews, ideas and opinion-making are qualifications we ask for in a
modern company or institution. It shows that you are interested,
entusiastic etc. Well we all have to be polite, but saying what we =
feel,
think and mean can only devellop our firm, institution, the climate
among us, bring us forward. Is this normal practice in The Gambia, who
can decide and give such punishments, and how is it regulated in the
working-conditions or contract signed ? What about unions ? I=B4m =
really
interested, because respect for one another and freedom to speech must
be fundamental in coorporation.
You wrote: I RECEIVED A FOUR DAY SUSPENSION WITHOUT PAY ( amounts to
D300 on my D2400 Monthly salary as HEAD OF CIVIL AERODROME ENGINEERING
SECTION at the AIRPORT) for STANDING UP and DEMANDING TO BE TREATED =
WITH
THE SAME RESPECT THAT WAS ACCORDED MY FORMER COUNTERPART (CONSULTANT)
WHO LEFT 3 MONTHS AGO
The next you wrote is very interesting: "We have I believe a SUPERIOR
FORM of SOCIAL WELFARISM..that acknowledges and rewards INDIVIDUALS =
that
share WEALTH by the EXTENDED FAMILY, by POLYGAMY and even the freedom =
of
relation amongst the SEXES.. here I am strictly confining my self to
AUTHENTIC AFRICAN MORES..not ISLAMIZED AFRICA nor CHRISTIANIZED
AFRICA...the wealthier an AFRICAN was the more wives he had..and by
extension his responsibilty increases..taking into account the families
and relatives of the wives..long time neighbours are family..distant
kinsmen..people sharing the family name and the OPEN DOOR..anyone is
welcome at any time for MEALS, HELP etc..
This is what I called African Social Welfare..but it never tried to
prevent
the CREATION of Wealth..Wealth is not GLORIFIED and WORSHIPPED as in =
the
West but NEITHER is scorned as in SCIENTIFIC SOCIALISM.."
I think that this "ideal" form of socialism is known in many societies.
On my tours I=B4ve seen it being practised. And that
collective-way-of-practising daily life in the villages/local societies
can form a base on which you can build decentralized decision-making =
and
action for bettering the conditions. I think that is why many NGO=B4s =
in
my part of the world feel that it is more benefical to help direct from
a group here to a group there. We still have that "social memory" and
keep it as a relic, and old dream, which we long for, but know it is =
not
possible/easy to form again. The socialism as it was practised with
centralisation has failed in Europe, but the idea of soocialism is =
still
active.=20
You gave me something to think about. It is a challenge to combine the
necessary need of a central planning state with the great entusiasm
among people who can practise the action-plans through local
decision-making, and actions, seing things happen through
decentralisation and based on the local "socialism".
I like you take a thinking and breathing-pause.
Regards from Asbj=F8rn Nordam
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 13:43:03 +-300
From: BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
To: "'gambia-l@u.washington.edu'" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: RE: ENQUIRY - JAINABA DIALLO
Message-ID: <01BCA1A5.82F373C0@dibl.qatar.net.qa>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BCA1A5.82FC9B80"
------ =_NextPart_000_01BCA1A5.82FC9B80
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yes,I am also very interested to know that.That is why it is a rule that =
every new commer should introduce herself.So,please,kindly introduce =
yourself !
And thanks very much for your cooperation in advance.
Regards Bassss!
----------
From: Momodou S Sidibeh[SMTP:momodou.sidibeh@stockholm.mail.telia.com]
Sent: 05 =D4=DA=C8=C7=E4, 1997 11:11
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
Subject: ENQUIRY - JAINABA DIALLO
Hello Jainaba Diallo,
A number of us out here are wondering if you are Jainaba who lives in
M=E4rsta (Sweden) or not. Kindly feel very welcome to this Bantaaba, but
please appreciate that this enquiry is this open as you did not provide =
us
with an introduction of yourself. Besides, since you are using hotmail, =
it
is rather impossible to make the enquiry private.
Best regards,
Momodou Sidibeh. =09
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 13:51:40 +0200
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Asbj=F8rn_Nordam?= <asbjorn.nordam@dif.dk>
To: "'gambia'" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Language, culture, nation-building etc-a reminder
Message-ID: <9B236DF9AF96CF11A5C94044F32190311010CC@dkdifs02.dif.dk>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
About lauguage, culture, nation building I will just remind you on the
fellowing two contributions been put on to our Gambia-L earlier, which
I had first seen today:
Copyright 1997 InterPress Service, all rights reserved.
Worldwide distribution via the APC networks.
*** 22-Jul-97 ***
Title: LITERATURE-AFRICA: Revolutionary Uses Ink for Bullets
By Gumisai Mutume
JOHANNESBURG, Jul 26 (IPS) - Soft-spoken and unassuming, Ngugi
wa
Thiong'o does not behave like the average superstar, but he is
regarded by the younger generation as one Africa's most
important
contemporary writers. .... etc .... etc.....
put on to Gambia-L from Momodou Camara 27. july, and
in Observer 20.june issue:
The Manding Congress 25 Years On
At its height in the 13th century, the Mali empire=20
covered the territory of half the countries of West=20
Africa, namely, The Gambia, Senegal, Mali, Sierra Leone,=20
Liberia, Guinea, Ivory Coast and Guinea Bissau. This=20
sprawling empire was home to multitudes of peoples=20
including the Mande stock (Bambara, Malinke, Mende, etc),=20
who were the rulers and a host of other groups like the=20
Wollof, Serere, Fula who were subjects. These people=20
shared not only the common political history of belonging=20
to the Mali empire, but also had linguistic and other=20
cultural ties. .... etc....etc....
I=B4ll not be back until next monday. Asbj=F8rn Nordam
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 8:48:21 -0500
From: hghanim@nusacc.org
To: kassama@hotmail.com, gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: RE: LALA???
Message-ID: <QQdbhb22403.199708051252@relay7.UU.NET>
This is to confirm what Gassama said.
LAH - in Arabic means NO .
There are a lot of Arabic words in many African languages like Hausa,
Swahili and in or area especially Fulani languages.
Habib Diab Ghanim
Ps I just came back from a my vacation (and business). The best part of
it was seeing an old friend of mine Emanuel Sang Ndow in Cleveland, Ohio.
I was happy to see him after several years of lost communication Thanks
to the Gambia-L.
Habib
-----Original Message-----
From: kassama@hotmail.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 1997 7:32 AM
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: LALA???
<< File: ENVELOPE.TXT >>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Hellow Fatty,
I think that the meaning of this word is an arabic origin that means
'no'in arabic. thus,the meaning is "NO NO"for enphasise.
Was salaam
gassama
---Original Message Follows----
Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 23:49:34 -0400
From: "PA-MAMBUNA O. BOJANG" <paomar@iglou.com>
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: LALA???
LIZ:
I don't know if this is what you are looking for, but you could also say
"LALA" meaning trust/believe him/her as in :LA-N'NA meaning
trust/believe me
"ABARAKA"
Pa-Mambuna.
EStew68064@aol.com wrote:
>
> SAMBUJANG- GR. DAVID GAMBLE WOULD LIKE TO KNOW IF THERE IS A MANDINKA
WORD
> "LALA." ALSO, WHAT DOES THIS WORD MEAN. ANYONE KNOW OUT THERE?
>
> BARRAKA...LIZ STEWART FATTY
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
**************************************
National U.S.-Arab Chamber of Commerce
1100 New York Avenue, N.W.
Suite 550 East Tower
Washington, D.C. 20005
Voice: (202) 289-5920
Fax: (202) 289-5938
**************************************
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 15:29:33 +0200
From: "Momodou S Sidibeh" <momodou.sidibeh@stockholm.mail.telia.com>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: SV: Development of subsaharan Africa
Message-ID: <199708051334.PAA14152@d1o2.telia.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Hello Mr. Nordam,
I only hope that you meant 50% of pupils in Danish schools continue to
University or some form of higher institution of learning; and not to HIGH
SCHOOL as you wrote?
Regards,
Momodou Sidibeh
----------
> Från: Asbjørn Nordam <asbjorn.nordam@dif.dk>
> Till: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
> Ämne: Re: Development of subsaharan Africa
> Datum: den 4 augusti 1997 11:58
>
> Pa Musa Jalow and Abdoulie Dibba, thanks a lot for your contributions.
> Now we come close to what I´m asking for. Let me first say that most of
> it only get me to repeat what I have been saying since my first visit to
> your country in 1979: Focus and priority should be put on:
> -education
> - agriculture- food production and -manufactury- and export
> - infrastructure - clean water supply for every compound,
> sanitary, electricity (river-/wind-/solarcell-energy) for every
> compound, roads-traffic (river-transportation ?)
> - primary health care etc...
>
> And the future is in your own hands (DEPENDENCY) and you must believe
> and trust in yourself (ATTITUDE).
>
> Thanks for the example: As an educated engineer you are payed an annual
> salary of $ 2700, but the WHITE consultant is payed up to $ 250.000.
> When I earlier asked what should a decent salary be, I was thinking
> exactly on this problem. How can anyone expect any of you, who is needed
> in the Gambia, to go home and serve the country, the people, if your are
> not appreciated. I asked for "every-day-heroes" and "people to look up
> to", and I asked for both sacrifices but also respect for you and your
> jobs.
> Let´s say that a decent salary for an engineer should be $ 3.000 or
> 4.000 or 5.000 so they could raise a family, help the extended family,
> there could still be employed 40 to 50 skilled, educated gambian
> engineers for the amount that one FOREIGN consultant is payed.
> And that is only engineers, what about those of you who are educated
> into medicine, agriculture, computor-technology, science etc.
> The "brain-drain" must be stopped. And to me it´s only a question on
> WILL and PLANNING.
> That was my comment.
>
> Now a personal question. Why do you emphazise it is a WHITE consultant ?
> Could it not have been a BLACK one, from USA f.in. ?
>
> And for the information. It´s only 50 years since all danish children
> got the chance of comming to school, in rural areas up til 30 years ago,
> they only whent every second day, and not when their work was needed in
> the farming. It was in the eaarly ´60´s we got enough public schools.
> It´s not more than 20 years ago that we, living in the "far west", has
> got our own highschools, so youngsters from our part of the country
> could also get the chance of getting better education, and it´s only
> within the last 10 years time, that up to 50 % of a class/year continued
> to highschool. So we are not so much ahead of the Gambia.
> In the periods when the european incursions took place, at the same time
> most of the european countries were fighting each others, killings,
> burnings, oppression, and at the same period we had the highest
> migration-figures ever seen, many millions of europeans emigrated to
> USA, Canada, Australia, etc. If we can understand why the europeans
> managed to do all this, then we can learn from our history. As you maybe
> don´t always want to be grouped under the mass-designation "africa south
> of Sahara", you must understand, that we "europeans" never has
> understand each others as one people - "europeans". It´s the opposite
> that characterize us. We see each other as different nationalities,
> which has very little (or some should say very much ) in commen. The
> "blind" competition among us, is the glove that bind us. (PS: I have
> just heard on the radion that the muslims who under protection and
> promises returned to their Bosnian homes, has been threatened out
> again, the authourities who should protect them has just offered busses,
> so they could get rid of them even faster, and the etnic cleansning
> continues. That´s also Europe). Asbjørn Nordam
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 17:32:36 +-300
From: BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
To: "'gambia-l@u.washington.edu'" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: RE: LALA???
Message-ID: <01BCA1C5.E0C88C40@ddcx.qatar.net.qa>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BCA1C5.E0D02D60"
------ =_NextPart_000_01BCA1C5.E0D02D60
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Mr.Ghanim!
It is true that many African Languages have borrowed a lot of Islamic =
and Commercial words from the Arabic Language as a direct result of the =
the one thousand or so years of contact with Arabia,but I cannot agree =
with Gassama that LALA in the Mandinka Language has its origin in =
Arabic.Because whereas LA in Arabic means NO, in the Mandinka Language, =
that same sound does not have the same meaning.
Regards Basss!
----------
From: hghanim@nusacc.org[SMTP:hghanim@nusacc.org]
Sent: 05 =D4=DA=C8=C7=E4, 1997 16:48
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
Subject: RE: LALA???
This is to confirm what Gassama said.
LAH - in Arabic means NO .
There are a lot of Arabic words in many African languages like Hausa, =20
Swahili and in or area especially Fulani languages.
Habib Diab Ghanim
Ps I just came back from a my vacation (and business). The best part of =
=20
it was seeing an old friend of mine Emanuel Sang Ndow in Cleveland, =
Ohio.
I was happy to see him after several years of lost communication Thanks =
=20
to the Gambia-L.
Habib
-----Original Message-----
From: kassama@hotmail.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 1997 7:32 AM
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: LALA???
<< File: ENVELOPE.TXT >>
=
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
- =20
--
Hellow Fatty,
I think that the meaning of this word is an arabic origin that means
'no'in arabic. thus,the meaning is "NO NO"for enphasise.
Was salaam
gassama
---Original Message Follows----
Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 23:49:34 -0400
From: "PA-MAMBUNA O. BOJANG" <paomar@iglou.com>
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: LALA???
LIZ:
I don't know if this is what you are looking for, but you could also say
"LALA" meaning trust/believe him/her as in :LA-N'NA meaning
trust/believe me
"ABARAKA"
Pa-Mambuna.
EStew68064@aol.com wrote:
>
> SAMBUJANG- GR. DAVID GAMBLE WOULD LIKE TO KNOW IF THERE IS A MANDINKA
WORD
> "LALA." ALSO, WHAT DOES THIS WORD MEAN. ANYONE KNOW OUT THERE?
>
> BARRAKA...LIZ STEWART FATTY
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
**************************************
National U.S.-Arab Chamber of Commerce
1100 New York Avenue, N.W.
Suite 550 East Tower
Washington, D.C. 20005
Voice: (202) 289-5920
Fax: (202) 289-5938
**************************************
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 17:43:18 +-300
From: BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
To: "'gambia-l@u.washington.edu'" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: RE: LALA???
Message-ID: <01BCA1C7.125BC820@ddcx.qatar.net.qa>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BCA1C7.12636940"
------ =_NextPart_000_01BCA1C7.12636940
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Mr. Ghanim!
It is evidently true that very many black African Languages have =
borrowed Commercial and Islamic words from the Arabic Language as a =
direct result of one thousand or so years of contact with Arabia;but I =
cannot agree with Gassama that there is a LA sound in the Mandinka =
language that means NO, as in Arabic.He will have to explain how that =
works before I can be convinced.
Keep up the good work down there!
Regards Bassss!
----------
From: hghanim@nusacc.org[SMTP:hghanim@nusacc.org]
Sent: 05 =D4=DA=C8=C7=E4, 1997 16:48
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
Subject: RE: LALA???
This is to confirm what Gassama said.
LAH - in Arabic means NO .
There are a lot of Arabic words in many African languages like Hausa, =20
Swahili and in or area especially Fulani languages.
Habib Diab Ghanim
Ps I just came back from a my vacation (and business). The best part of =
=20
it was seeing an old friend of mine Emanuel Sang Ndow in Cleveland, =
Ohio.
I was happy to see him after several years of lost communication Thanks =
=20
to the Gambia-L.
Habib
-----Original Message-----
From: kassama@hotmail.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 1997 7:32 AM
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: LALA???
<< File: ENVELOPE.TXT >>
=
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
- =20
--
Hellow Fatty,
I think that the meaning of this word is an arabic origin that means
'no'in arabic. thus,the meaning is "NO NO"for enphasise.
Was salaam
gassama
---Original Message Follows----
Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 23:49:34 -0400
From: "PA-MAMBUNA O. BOJANG" <paomar@iglou.com>
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: LALA???
LIZ:
I don't know if this is what you are looking for, but you could also say
"LALA" meaning trust/believe him/her as in :LA-N'NA meaning
trust/believe me
"ABARAKA"
Pa-Mambuna.
EStew68064@aol.com wrote:
>
> SAMBUJANG- GR. DAVID GAMBLE WOULD LIKE TO KNOW IF THERE IS A MANDINKA
WORD
> "LALA." ALSO, WHAT DOES THIS WORD MEAN. ANYONE KNOW OUT THERE?
>
> BARRAKA...LIZ STEWART FATTY
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
**************************************
National U.S.-Arab Chamber of Commerce
1100 New York Avenue, N.W.
Suite 550 East Tower
Washington, D.C. 20005
Voice: (202) 289-5920
Fax: (202) 289-5938
**************************************
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 11:53:50 -0500
From: hghanim@nusacc.org
To: kolls567@qatar.net.qa, gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: RE: LALA???
Message-ID: <QQdbhn05849.199708051558@relay7.UU.NET>
Basss,
I am glad you made the difference in comparison to what Gassama and I
said.
It is entirely related but quite separate in the transliteration.
Also it may be worthwhile mentioning that some legendary beliefs claim
that the Fulanis are originally products of intermarriages between the
black Africans and some 40 (forty) Arab scholars who were sent to
Timbuktu ( a city in Mali that had the only & first library established
in the African continent for science and religion ) to learn about
science and teach the Islamic religion. So Bass you are also right . We
have a lot of similarities like Narri Gannars, Narri Fass, Toukoulors in
our area and of course the Hausas in northern Nigeria.
Habib
-----Original Message-----
From: kolls567@qatar.net.qa
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 1997 11:00 AM
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: RE: LALA???
<< File: FILE0001.ATT >> << File: ENVELOPE.TXT >>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Mr. Ghanim!
It is evidently true that very many black African Languages have
borrowed
Commercial and Islamic words from the Arabic Language as a direct result
of
one thousand or so years of contact with Arabia;but I
cannot agree with Gassama that there is a LA sound in the Mandinka
language
that means NO, as in Arabic.He will have to explain how that works before
I
can be convinced.
Keep up the good work down there!
Regards Bassss!
----------
From: hghanim@nusacc.org[SMTP:hghanim@nusacc.org]
Sent: 05 ____{, 1997 16:48
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
Subject: RE: LALA???
This is to confirm what Gassama said.
LAH - in Arabic means NO .
There are a lot of Arabic words in many African languages like Hausa,
Swahili and in or area especially Fulani languages.
Habib Diab Ghanim
Ps I just came back from a my vacation (and business). The best part of
it was seeing an old friend of mine Emanuel Sang Ndow in Cleveland, Ohio.
I was happy to see him after several years of lost communication Thanks
to the Gambia-L.
Habib
-----Original Message-----
From: kassama@hotmail.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 1997 7:32 AM
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: LALA???
<< File: ENVELOPE.TXT >>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Hellow Fatty,
I think that the meaning of this word is an arabic origin that means
'no'in arabic. thus,the meaning is "NO NO"for enphasise.
Was salaam
gassama
---Original Message Follows----
Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 23:49:34 -0400
From: "PA-MAMBUNA O. BOJANG" <paomar@iglou.com>
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: LALA???
LIZ:
I don't know if this is what you are looking for, but you could also say
"LALA" meaning trust/believe him/her as in :LA-N'NA meaning
trust/believe me
"ABARAKA"
Pa-Mambuna.
EStew68064@aol.com wrote:
>
> SAMBUJANG- GR. DAVID GAMBLE WOULD LIKE TO KNOW IF THERE IS A MANDINKA
WORD
> "LALA." ALSO, WHAT DOES THIS WORD MEAN. ANYONE KNOW OUT THERE?
>
> BARRAKA...LIZ STEWART FATTY
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
**************************************
National U.S.-Arab Chamber of Commerce
1100 New York Avenue, N.W.
Suite 550 East Tower
Washington, D.C. 20005
Voice: (202) 289-5920
Fax: (202) 289-5938
**************************************
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 16:13:52 +0100
From: "The Gambia-L shadow list" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: developm. of subsaharan africa:rejoinder2
Message-ID: <B0000002969@south.commit.gm>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
This is forwarded from "Pa Musa Jallow" <pmj@commit.gm>
(pmj@commit.gm)
Asbjorn & People,
To your question about the "strange" rules & regulations..the answer
yes..strange and archaic and colonial..when I objected to a decision
affecting me operationally and my productivity..I was told that I COULD NOT
QUESTION AN ORDER or INSTRUCTION FROM THE DIRECTOR..you see there is no
question of rudeness but the fact that THE DIRECTORS have never been asked
to CLARIFY or JUSTIFY an ACTION is enough..my suspension letter reads..from
the Director General..
'..for refusing to obey an instruction from your head of department
requiring my personal intervention..this kind of behavior will not be
tolerated..you are hereby suspended for a period of four days without pay
with immediate effect..'
when I was asked by the DG why I refused to obey the instruction I
submitted that I believed it was UNFAIR and WRONG and I wanted to put my
OBJECTION on the record..this was what was interpreted as
INSURBORDINATION..now if the DIRECTOR has never been challenged..naturally
his reaction will be typical as in my case..la difference..is I will
continue to challenge the STATUS QUO and I am not the ONLY one..in fact I
am serving my suspension but I intend to petition the BOARD and challenge
it..I will also have to read the Service Rules I believe a DISCIPLINARY
COMMITTEE should have been called but I am still NEW to the SYSTEM..
If you read back on my writing, i maintained we are still paying a price
for the STRAITJACKET COLONIAL EDUCATION..in modern societies..nobody is
all-powerful and there is due process..and until the old SYSTEM is
challenged and DEFEATED..there can be no development
I also recall another similar case when again one senior officer challenged
a similar decision..he was called in and advised to apologise..and told in
no uncertain terms that "the Director could DOOM him"..exact words..and
this has always been the case..the director could write any comments in
your Personal File..the basis for your promotion and upgrading..the
director may also mis-represent your performance.or deny you the RESOURCES
that you need to WORK...so if you want to prosper in the SYSTEM..you have
to suck up to the BIG BOSS..it is SICKENING and DISGUSTING but it is the
REALITY..it is a small wonder like you said that most of us direly needed
experts leave our own countries again
my best friend went back to the U.S.A after seating at an EMPTY DESK for 18
months..his conclusion..IT WAS NOT WORTH IT..the frustration and the FUSS
over $250 per month as an ELECTRONIC ENGINEER..the little or no worthwhile
PRIVATE SECTOR JOBS leave us few ALTERNATIVES
p.s. serving my suspension has given me quite some free time..besides i
needed a break so let us say that I am not sorry..thanks for your comments
but I like being honest..the only way forward is an HONEST APPRAISAL
bye for now
peace
pmj
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 20:31:33 +-300
From: BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
To: "'gambia-l@u.washington.edu'" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: RE: LALA???
Message-ID: <01BCA1DF.AAB07040@diim.qatar.net.qa>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BCA1DF.AAB99800"
------ =_NextPart_000_01BCA1DF.AAB99800
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Mr.Ghanim!
Yes, You are right in alluding to the fact that the mixing of blood =
between the arabs and black Africans has been going on from the time =
immemorial,but, again, for the records,the legend you refered to cannot =
be correct, because Islam reached Black Africa during the eight =
century,and the Fullas had existed even before Abraham(the father of =
Ishmael,the ancestor of the Arabs) had migrated to Egypt.Some of the =
Pharoahs of ancient Egypt had the totemic names of the present day =
Fullas eg. Kah,Bah and zet (Sey).
So,since history does not take place retroactively,such legends are =
nothing more than what they are: LEGENDS!
Keep up the good work down there.
Regards Bassss!
----------
From: hghanim@nusacc.org[SMTP:hghanim@nusacc.org]
Sent: 05 =D4=DA=C8=C7=E4, 1997 19:53
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
Subject: RE: LALA???
Basss,
I am glad you made the difference in comparison to what Gassama and I =
said.
It is entirely related but quite separate in the transliteration.
Also it may be worthwhile mentioning that some legendary beliefs claim =
that the Fulanis are originally products of intermarriages between the =
black Africans and some 40 (forty) Arab scholars who were sent to =20
Timbuktu ( a city in Mali that had the only & first library established =
=20
in the African continent for science and religion ) to learn about =20
science and teach the Islamic religion. So Bass you are also right . We =
=20
have a lot of similarities like Narri Gannars, Narri Fass, Toukoulors in =
=20
our area and of course the Hausas in northern Nigeria.
Habib
-----Original Message-----
From: kolls567@qatar.net.qa
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 1997 11:00 AM
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: RE: LALA???
<< File: FILE0001.ATT >> << File: ENVELOPE.TXT >>
=
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
- =20
--
Mr. Ghanim!
It is evidently true that very many black African Languages have =20
borrowed
Commercial and Islamic words from the Arabic Language as a direct result =
=20
of
one thousand or so years of contact with Arabia;but I
cannot agree with Gassama that there is a LA sound in the Mandinka =20
language
that means NO, as in Arabic.He will have to explain how that works =
before =20
I
can be convinced.
Keep up the good work down there!
Regards Bassss!
----------
From: hghanim@nusacc.org[SMTP:hghanim@nusacc.org]
Sent: 05 ____{, 1997 16:48
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
Subject: RE: LALA???
This is to confirm what Gassama said.
LAH - in Arabic means NO .
There are a lot of Arabic words in many African languages like Hausa,
Swahili and in or area especially Fulani languages.
Habib Diab Ghanim
Ps I just came back from a my vacation (and business). The best part of =
=20
=20
it was seeing an old friend of mine Emanuel Sang Ndow in Cleveland, =
Ohio.
I was happy to see him after several years of lost communication Thanks =
=20
=20
to the Gambia-L.
Habib
-----Original Message-----
From: kassama@hotmail.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 1997 7:32 AM
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: LALA???
<< File: ENVELOPE.TXT >>
=
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
- =20
=20
--
Hellow Fatty,
I think that the meaning of this word is an arabic origin that means
'no'in arabic. thus,the meaning is "NO NO"for enphasise.
Was salaam
gassama
---Original Message Follows----
Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 23:49:34 -0400
From: "PA-MAMBUNA O. BOJANG" <paomar@iglou.com>
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: LALA???
LIZ:
I don't know if this is what you are looking for, but you could also say
"LALA" meaning trust/believe him/her as in :LA-N'NA meaning
trust/believe me
"ABARAKA"
Pa-Mambuna.
EStew68064@aol.com wrote:
>
> SAMBUJANG- GR. DAVID GAMBLE WOULD LIKE TO KNOW IF THERE IS A MANDINKA
WORD
> "LALA." ALSO, WHAT DOES THIS WORD MEAN. ANYONE KNOW OUT THERE?
>
> BARRAKA...LIZ STEWART FATTY
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
**************************************
National U.S.-Arab Chamber of Commerce
1100 New York Avenue, N.W.
Suite 550 East Tower
Washington, D.C. 20005
Voice: (202) 289-5920
Fax: (202) 289-5938
**************************************
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 14:42:04 -0500
From: hghanim@nusacc.org
To: kolls567@qatar.net.qa, gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: RE: LALA???
Message-ID: <QQdbhz13572.199708051846@relay7.UU.NET>
I am sure it goes back all the way to our Patriarch Ibrahim(Abraham) and
certainly ADAMA and AWAH from whom we all were created.
Maybe the Legend probably means the present day Tauregs or our local
Mauritanians in the sub region. I am glad you have added to my knowledge
about some of the Phaoric names that relate to the Bahs, Jallows and Seys
..Obviously Africa was inhabited before the European countries proven by
the existence of the Pyramids of Egypt.
Keep the exchange alive.
Best regards
Habib
-----Original Message-----
From: kolls567@qatar.net.qa
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 1997 1:57 PM
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: RE: LALA???
<< File: FILE0001.ATT >> << File: ENVELOPE.TXT >>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Mr.Ghanim!
Yes, You are right in alluding to the fact that the mixing of blood
between
the arabs and black Africans has been going on from the time
immemorial,but,
again, for the records,the legend you refered to cannot
be correct, because Islam reached Black Africa during the eight
century,and
the Fullas had existed even before Abraham(the father of Ishmael,the
ancestor
of the Arabs) had migrated to Egypt.Some of the
Pharoahs of ancient Egypt had the totemic names of the present day Fullas
eg.
Kah,Bah and zet (Sey).
So,since history does not take place retroactively,such legends are
nothing
more than what they are: LEGENDS!
Keep up the good work down there.
Regards Bassss!
----------
From: hghanim@nusacc.org[SMTP:hghanim@nusacc.org]
Sent: 05 ____{, 1997 19:53
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
Subject: RE: LALA???
Basss,
I am glad you made the difference in comparison to what Gassama and I
said.
It is entirely related but quite separate in the transliteration.
Also it may be worthwhile mentioning that some legendary beliefs claim
that the Fulanis are originally products of intermarriages between the
black Africans and some 40 (forty) Arab scholars who were sent to
Timbuktu ( a city in Mali that had the only & first library established
in the African continent for science and religion ) to learn about
science and teach the Islamic religion. So Bass you are also right . We
have a lot of similarities like Narri Gannars, Narri Fass, Toukoulors in
our area and of course the Hausas in northern Nigeria.
Habib
-----Original Message-----
From: kolls567@qatar.net.qa
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 1997 11:00 AM
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: RE: LALA???
<< File: FILE0001.ATT >> << File: ENVELOPE.TXT >>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Mr. Ghanim!
It is evidently true that very many black African Languages have
borrowed
Commercial and Islamic words from the Arabic Language as a direct result
of
one thousand or so years of contact with Arabia;but I
cannot agree with Gassama that there is a LA sound in the Mandinka
language
that means NO, as in Arabic.He will have to explain how that works before
I
can be convinced.
Keep up the good work down there!
Regards Bassss!
----------
From: hghanim@nusacc.org[SMTP:hghanim@nusacc.org]
Sent: 05 ____{, 1997 16:48
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
Subject: RE: LALA???
This is to confirm what Gassama said.
LAH - in Arabic means NO .
There are a lot of Arabic words in many African languages like Hausa,
Swahili and in or area especially Fulani languages.
Habib Diab Ghanim
Ps I just came back from a my vacation (and business). The best part of
it was seeing an old friend of mine Emanuel Sang Ndow in Cleveland, Ohio.
I was happy to see him after several years of lost communication Thanks
to the Gambia-L.
Habib
-----Original Message-----
From: kassama@hotmail.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 1997 7:32 AM
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: LALA???
<< File: ENVELOPE.TXT >>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Hellow Fatty,
I think that the meaning of this word is an arabic origin that means
'no'in arabic. thus,the meaning is "NO NO"for enphasise.
Was salaam
gassama
---Original Message Follows----
Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 23:49:34 -0400
From: "PA-MAMBUNA O. BOJANG" <paomar@iglou.com>
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: LALA???
LIZ:
I don't know if this is what you are looking for, but you could also say
"LALA" meaning trust/believe him/her as in :LA-N'NA meaning
trust/believe me
"ABARAKA"
Pa-Mambuna.
EStew68064@aol.com wrote:
>
> SAMBUJANG- GR. DAVID GAMBLE WOULD LIKE TO KNOW IF THERE IS A MANDINKA
WORD
> "LALA." ALSO, WHAT DOES THIS WORD MEAN. ANYONE KNOW OUT THERE?
>
> BARRAKA...LIZ STEWART FATTY
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
**************************************
National U.S.-Arab Chamber of Commerce
1100 New York Avenue, N.W.
Suite 550 East Tower
Washington, D.C. 20005
Voice: (202) 289-5920
Fax: (202) 289-5938
**************************************
|
|
|
Momodou
Denmark
11513 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2021 : 14:23:29
|
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 21:47:33 +-300
From: BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
To: "'gambia-l@u.washington.edu'" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: RE: developm. of subsaharan africa:rejoinder2
Message-ID: <01BCA1E9.31A54D60@diim.qatar.net.qa>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BCA1E9.31AE7520"
------ =_NextPart_000_01BCA1E9.31AE7520
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Mr.Jallow!
=09
I salute your courage and attitude.Change will come of course =
eventually because history cannot be stopped,but it will neither be =
quick nor harmless,and some will have to pay the price necessary for it =
to come about.All we in the diaspora can do at this point in time is to =
give you people on the ground back home our unshakeable moral =
support.And thak you very much for telling us so much about the =
realities of the Gambia in so short a time.
And keep up the good work down there!
Regards Basssss!=20
----------
From: The Gambia-L shadow list[SMTP:gambia-l@commit.gm]
Sent: 05 =D4=DA=C8=C7=E4, 1997 18:13
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
Subject: Re: developm. of subsaharan africa:rejoinder2
This is forwarded from "Pa Musa Jallow" <pmj@commit.gm>
(pmj@commit.gm)
Asbjorn & People,
To your question about the "strange" rules & regulations..the answer
yes..strange and archaic and colonial..when I objected to a decision
affecting me operationally and my productivity..I was told that I COULD =
NOT
QUESTION AN ORDER or INSTRUCTION FROM THE DIRECTOR..you see there is no
question of rudeness but the fact that THE DIRECTORS have never been =
asked
to CLARIFY or JUSTIFY an ACTION is enough..my suspension letter =
reads..from
the Director General..
'..for refusing to obey an instruction from your head of department
requiring my personal intervention..this kind of behavior will not be
tolerated..you are hereby suspended for a period of four days without =
pay
with immediate effect..' =20
when I was asked by the DG why I refused to obey the instruction I
submitted that I believed it was UNFAIR and WRONG and I wanted to put my
OBJECTION on the record..this was what was interpreted as
INSURBORDINATION..now if the DIRECTOR has never been =
challenged..naturally
his reaction will be typical as in my case..la difference..is I will
continue to challenge the STATUS QUO and I am not the ONLY one..in fact =
I
am serving my suspension but I intend to petition the BOARD and =
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 16:47:20 -0400
From: gndow@spelman.edu (Gabriel Ndow)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: RE: LALA???
Message-ID: <199708052047.QAA01130@jackal.spelman.edu>
Greetings:
I have been away for a while and glad to be back in the fold. While I am
digesting the various discourses currently on the table, let me quickly
touch on what Habib stated in passing:
>Also it may be worthwhile mentioning that some legendary beliefs claim
that the Fulanis are originally products of intermarriages between the
black Africans and some 40 (forty) Arab scholars who were sent to
Timbuktu ( a city in Mali that had the only & first library established
in the African continent for science and religion ) to learn about
science and teach the Islamic religion.<
While this may be a legend or a belief, it bears no scientific or historical
merit. The 'Ba's' and the 'Kah's" have been around long before there was
a Timbuktu, let alone some 40 Arab scholars.
In peace,
LatJor
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 16:49:33 -0400
From: gndow@spelman.edu (Gabriel Ndow)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: RE: LALA???
Message-ID: <199708052049.QAA01132@jackal.spelman.edu>
I see Bassss has already pointed this out.
LatJor
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 17:06:07 -0400
From: gndow@spelman.edu (Gabriel Ndow)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: RE: LALA???
Message-ID: <199708052106.RAA01136@jackal.spelman.edu>
Another historical notation:
Habib wrote:
>I am sure it goes back all the way to our Patriarch Ibrahim(Abraham)
First, during the time of Ibrahim, all 72 pyramids in Egypt had already been
constructed, spanning several millenia. So the Fulas have been around long
before this Hebrew.
> certainly ADAMA and AWAH from whom we all were created.
This is a religious belief and as such would be futile to debate on. Since it
is faith that dictates the logic here.
LatJor
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 19:31:53 -0000
From: "The Gambia-L shadow list" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: LA-LA-LA
Message-ID: <B0000002983@south.commit.gm>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
This is forwarded from "Torstein Grotnes" <tgr@commit.gm>
(tgr@commit.gm)
I am sitting here in Fajara and reading my Gambia-L mails and I am
wondering why a question about a word
(meaning someone singing in my language), gets seven-eight concerned
answers while
straight to the bone articles from Mr. Pa Musa Jallow with topics that will
decide the future for The Gambia is met with a big silence or uninterested
questions(exept a toubab or two)?!
Are there to many academic heads in this discussion group, knowing deep
down
that whatever they do, it will probably not be done in The Gambia?!
Why did/does not any of the many highly educated and Internet knowledgeble
Gambians abroad start what we
are doing in The Gambia, providing important information structure to
Gambians in The Gambia, or any other important
pioneering project like bringing a thousand 486 computers, and distributing
it to the different schools?!
Why not just do something, like we did?
How do you expect Gambia-L to have any meaning for The Gambia if what you
say should be done about The Gambia is not reaching the country? It's like
shouting in deep space!
About us we will probably be the poorest ISP in the whole world with a
customerbase of 500-1000 accounts( hopefully).
Why did we throw out our $150000 jobs in Norway, sold our nice houses/cars
to finance a small company in The Gambia?!?
Could it actually be that we saw something important in providing these
services in this country?
I have only been in the Gambia for seven months, but I will take my chance
to state that if there was any time to get Gambia
going up/forward or whatever direction is the right it should start NOW!
So how about seeing some implementation or ACTION as I would call it?
Just as I am finishing this mail, the power goes off (probably for some
hours at the best!).
If this had discouraged us, we would have been gone home a long time ago.
In stead we invest in a generator and UPS system.
How about some of you power-engineering people start coming down and
introducing some good ideas and standards.
I know the private sector would be happy about it!
Even more important would be to start changing the political
environment/system and maybe get rid of some of these civil servants Pa
Musa is talking about...
And please, Mr. Bassirou Dodou Drammeh, how can you say, "keep up the good
work DOWN THERE" when if anybody YOU should
be down here doing some good work?!?
Yours truly,
For The Gambia
Torstein Grotnes
Commit enterprises Ltd.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 18:17:43 -0400
From: Latir Downes-Thomas <latir@earthlink.net>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: GambiaNet: In response to Andrea's message
Message-ID: <33E7A687.B847367D@earthlink.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Malanding S. Jaiteh wrote:
> Latir,
>
> I should commend you for your efforts to clarify a few issues
> Andrea raised. However, there remain a number of things
> that are to me confusing and difficult to understand.
>
> It is a good an idea perhaps a necessity to form an umbrella
> organization to oversee the different activities Gambia-L members
> might want to do. However, the committee that took this task upon
> itself made some serious oversights.
GambiaNet is in any way an umbrella organisation formed "to oversee the
different activities Gambia-L members might want to do." The only task
"the committee" took upon itself was to put a gambian based newspaper on
the internet.
> First, I would want to know whether the Gambia-l membership had
> been informed of the need to form a non-profit organization
> inorder to get the Observer online? Has the new organization
> replaced Gambia-L? If so has the entire list membership gained
> automatic membership to GambiNet Inc?
The two original committees, the technical and steering committees, were
started privately by a few Gambia-L members who wanted to work on this
project. They made continued appeals to the entire list for those
interested in working on the project to join the committees, a policy
that has never ceased and resulted in other members joining in their
efforts.
The committees later formed themselves into one team and once the team
decided to transform itself into a non profit organisation the list was
in fact informed.
This organisation has not and will not replace Gambia-L. Gambia-L is a
mailing list and GambiaNet will be a web based organisation. This
being the case, the entire list will not gain automatic membership to
GambiaNet.
> You mentioned adopting the Bylaws to register the organization,
> How can the committe draft and adopt the bylaws for GambiaNet
> Inc to register and no word mentioned to the entire Gambia-L membership?
As the incorporators of GambiaNet, the members of the committee or the
team were the only ones who could have adopted the bylaws. Again, a non
profit organisation was formed to prevent a prohibative tax liability.
In order to pay for the service, membership fees will have to be drawn
rather than actual subscription fees that are taxable and, once again,
prohibitive. As a result, we can only accept members once we are
absolutely sertain we can and will provide the service. This will
happen when a contract is agreed on by the Observer Company.
In the drafting stages, it would have been impractical to ask for the
entire list's opinion for each decision as the response rate has been
historically low and sluggish. What we should have done was to perform
a better job in keeping the list abreast on our actions. We have
apologized for this in the past and we apologize here again.
> You mentioned that "Because the contract with the Observer
> Company is not complete, we cannot explain the terms but we can
> say most of the revenue from the membership fees collected will
> go towards paying the Observer Company for the Online
> service....." Why can't the entire Gambia-L see what deal we are
> going into with the Observer?
We do not know "what deal we are going into with the Observer."
Earlier this year, as stated on the list, some members of Gambia-L were
in Banjul and talked to The Observer about the feasibility of providing
such a service. It seems as though there was a general agreement that
once the costs of developing, maintaining and administering such a
service was subtracted from the total revenue received, the difference,
or most of it depending on the number of actual subscribers, would go to
The Observer Company.
Since we will be operating as a non profit organisation, legally this
will have to be structured differently but since the contract and
negotiations that go with it are still incomplete, we are not sure at
this point how different this will be.
> What do you mean when you say " We agreed and amended our draft
> bylaws appropriately but we would like to make it clear that any
> activity in this area will be run entirely by the already
> established Gambia-L Education Commiittee"?
It was suggested from someone, after we drafted the first version of the
Bylaws, that at some point in the future we may be able to help/work
with the education committee. Bearing this in mind we decided to amend
the draft bylaws so that education related activities would also be a
part of what we do.
When I said "... we would like to make it clear that any activity in
this area will be run entirely by the already established Gambia-L
Education Committee", I referring to the fact that we decided that while
we "will do everything to help facilitate its activities but only with
the consent of the Committee".
Simply put, since we are an internet based non profit organisation, we
would limit ourselves on education matters to only where we can offer
services that comes with the advantage our position offers the Education
Committee.
> Finally you mentioned that "..Bassirou Doudou Drammeh, has been
> liasing with Malanding Jaiteh of the Education Committee to
> determine plans of action." Can Bassirou informed the membership
> whatever he and Malanding had liased on the matter.
This was completely a mistake on my part. I'm told it should have read:
"Bass... has been asked to liaise with.."
This mistake is indicative of some of the problems our team of twelve
has experienced working solely on email correspondence as the means of
communication. While I believe it has worked extraordinarily well given
that fact that we have accomplished some small feats, we are prone to
miscommunication from time.
This next example may also help you understand this point further.
Sometime weeks ago, it was decided that the initial Bylaws we had
drafted through a rather laborious consensus building process would be
published to the list so that Gambia-L members would have a first hand
idea about what we were doing and where we were going.
I actually thought this was done. As I began responding to your
questions, I realized this was not the case and sifting through the over
four hundred and seventy messages of correspondence the team has
generated since April this year I was able to find out why.
At the time we decided to make the Bylaws public, if you will, we were
also amending them for another time. While some of us assumed the
amendments were done, others assumed differently and as time went on
they were never sent. An honest oversight.
> These are some of the many questions that may help me clarify
> things before I can make any comments.
We would love to hear both your and anyone's comments on this matter but
before doing we would like you to consider the following:
(1) At one time we were over 256 members on Gambia-L and less than 70
showed their interest in the project so it was absolutely impossible to
have decisions taken on the Gambia-L level.
(2) From the inception (when Francis asked for volunteers), we have
given people a chance to join the Committee for this very reason and
this policy has of inclusion has never changed.
(3) In the drafting and decision making stages, one that continues to
this day, it is and it would have been impractical to ask for the list's
opinion on each decision as the response rate has been historically low
and sluggish on this project.
(4) If people do not like any aspect of what we have done, they can and
are urged to easily undo it by voting so in the future. This can be
done once the organisation begins in earnest and those interested become
members of Gambia-L.
Again, please feel free to ask whatever questions you have related to
our activities and we would also appreciate receiving any comments you
may have.
I apologize for such a long message but we feel that since this is an
important issue, important questions have been asked and concerns
shared, time must be taken to carefully explain ourselves so that all is
well understood.
Thank you.
Latir Gheran Downes-Thomas
Public Relations Representative
GambiaNet
latir@earthlink.net
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 18:23:28 -0400
From: Latir Downes-Thomas <latir@earthlink.net>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: GambiaNet: In response to Andrea's message
Message-ID: <33E7A7E0.817F7848@earthlink.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On a personal note, speaking now only for myself, a list member and not
for the GambiaNet Board of Directors, I would like to add the following:
I believe whatever misconceptions or misunderstanding that may be
taking place here can be attributed to simple miscommunication.
The team comprises of 12 individuals. One of them I met about six
month's ago here in New York, another I just met last month on a trip to
Atlanta and one other I have known for some time but haven't seen nor
spoken to him in some four years. As for the other eight, I have no
idea what they even look like.
Given all this, the chances that we could get this far working together
by typing messages to one another is quite astonishing. Yes, there will
be some miscommunication but all things considered we have still
managed to assemble all sorts of information together, raise funds,
spend time sifting and responding to over 500 messages and making
international calls among other things. All this for what? An assured
seat on a Board of Directors of a fledging non profit organisation? I
would kindly give that up any day to keep this initiative going and
while I am not speaking on behalf of my colleagues on this project I am
quite sure many of them feel the same way.
This may seem a bit presumptuous but I'm sure I'm not too far off the
mark when I say that I believe their are those on list who seem to
believe that we have somehow single-handedly taken over or have designs
on taking over the entire list and all its activities. This is far from
being the case. All we have done is work to provide gambians and
friends of The Gambia a service with no personal gain to ourselves.
I have tried on several occasions to work on similar projects both here
and at home and the between the clash of egos and the agony of
disappointment, they always seem to fail. Let's not allow the same to
happen here.
Peace
Latir Gheran
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 15:28:30 PDT
From: "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Belated Introduction.......
Message-ID: <199708052228.PAA08118@f38.hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Fellow Gambia-Lers,
Sorry for the belated intro., my name is Jainaba Diallo. I am originally
senegalese, but recently immigrated to Canada. I am a chemical Engineer
by profession (did my B.Sc and M.Sc at U. of Sydney, Australia), I'll
start an MBA program this fall at Simon Fraser University in Burnaby,
Canada.
I did visit the Gambia on several occasions, the most recent being Dec.
1995.
Thanks for having me on the List.
Best wishes,
Jainaba.
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 00:53:12 +0200
From: momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: GambiaNet: In response to Andrea's message
Message-ID: <19970805235548.AAA29168@LOCALNAME>
On 5 Aug 97 at 18:17, Latir Downes-Thomas wrote:
> (4) If people do not like any aspect of what we
> have done, they can and are urged to easily undo it by voting so in
> the future. This can be done once the organisation begins in
> earnest and those interested become members of Gambia-L.
correction:
The above should be read as GambiaNet and not Gambia-L.
Momodou Camara
Secretary
GambiaNet Inc.
*******************************************************
http://home3.inet.tele.dk/mcamara
**"Start by doing what's necessary, then what's
possible and suddenly you are doing the impossible"***
------------------------------
Date: 05 Aug 1997 22:43:44 GMT
From: momodou@inform-bbs.dk (Momodou Camara)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Fwd: FOOD-FINANCE: New Investments Needed to Fight 'Hidden Hunger'
Message-ID: <3865378782.330310879@inform-bbs.dk>
Copyright 1997 InterPress Service, all rights reserved.
Worldwide distribution via the APC networks.
*** 30-Jul-97 ***
Title: FOOD-FINANCE: New Investments Needed to Fight 'Hidden
Hunger'/EMBARGOED
/ATT EDS: The following item is EMBARGOED and may not be printed
or otherwise reproduced before 2200GMT Thursday, July 31/
WASHINGTON, Jul 31 (IPS) - Arguing that children and mothers in
developing countries are dying for want of a teaspoonful of key
nutrients, scientists, donors, and corporations are urging new
investment to end 'hidden hunger'.
Micronutrient malnutrition - mainly the lack of sufficient
iodine, iron, and vitamin A - is the world's most prevalent
nutritional deficiency, according to a report released Thursday by
the Ottawa-based Micronutrient Initiative. It is called 'hidden
hunger' because people have no innate appetite or hunger for these
essential vitamins and minerals.
More than one billion people suffer from mild deficiencies of
the nutrients, which can result in anaemia, night blindness and,
in severe cases, death, the report says. Minute amounts of these
substances - often, less than a teaspoon over the course of a
lifetime - would be sufficient to solve these problems.
The consortium believes it has the key to eliminating hidden
hunger: food fortification, in which these and other nutrients -
including zinc, folic acid, and vitamins B and D - are added to
food during processing. The technology has been around for most of
this century, they say - what's needed now is an infusion of
political support and financial investment.
Indeed, although the report, 'Food Fortification to End
Micronutrient Malnutrition: State of the Art', describes the
science and technology involved, it is largely an appeal for
increased private investment and regulatory changes in developing
countries to ''prime the pump'' for investors. These include
reducing tariffs on imported micronutrients and value-added tax
(VAT) on processed food products.
''As the food industry becomes increasingly global, investment
capital and modern technology are available in virtually every
nation,'' it states. ''As urban populations explode and rural
agriculture looks increasingly to cash crops, the market for
commercial processed foods expands. These changes in business
environment as well as dietary habits and consumption patterns
present an opportunity to deliver essential micronutrients through
fortifying food products.''
To help the process - and investors - along, governments should
enact ''national legislation mandating fortification of a staple
food consumed by the general population,'' the report adds.
This may look like a clever bid at expansion by the
micronutrient industry and the agencies whose stock in trade
includes promoting that industry's products. The report and a
conference of the same name scheduled for Montreal, Canada
Saturday are being sponsored by F. Hoffman-LaRoche, Ltd., a
leading micronutrient supplier; non-governmental organisations
including Helen Keller International; and the U.S. Agency for
International Development's (USAID) Opportunities for
Micronutrient Interventions.
Nevertheless, ''if the international community can succeed in
its long-term goal of bringing the needed nutrients to the
developing world, at a cost of well under one dollar per recipient
per year, the benefits would be immense,'' says M.G. Venkatesh
Mannar, executive director of the Micronutrient Initiative.
The organisation describes itself as an 'international
secretariat' supported by the Canadian International Development
Agency, the International Development Research Center of Canada,
the U.N. Development Programme, U.N. Children's Fund, USAID, and
the World Bank.
The pay-off for developing countries could include preventing
up to four out of every ten childhood deaths and reducing maternal
mortality by as much as one-third, according to the report.
There might also be an economic pay-off. Hidden hunger impairs
intelligence and depletes energy and is among the leading causes
of mental retardation and childhood blindness, the report notes.
Preventing these problems should yield an increase in peoples'
brain power and productivity and ultimately result in an upswing
in gross domestic product (GDP) of as much as five percent.
To derive these benefits, however, countries, companies, and
aid agencies will have to correct a sometimes perverse market.
''While vitamin A deficiency constitutes a true plague on the
children of the developing world, 80 percent of our market for
vitamin A is in animal and poultry feed,'' says Alberto Nilson of
F. Hoffman-LaRoche, Ltd.
Iodizing salt, first undertaken in the 1920s, showed immediate
and spectacular results in North America and Europe, the report
says. Fortifying margarine with vitamin D is thought to have
eliminated rickets - a childhood bone disease - from Britain,
Canada, and Northern Europe early in this century. Adding iron to
refined flour is thought to have helped reduce iron deficiency
anaemia in Sweden and the United States.
More recently, Venezuela has cut its anaemia problem by two-
thirds in two years by putting iron in flour for bread and pasta,
the report adds. The Philippines has had similar success in
reducing vitamin A deficiency (VAD) by adding the nutrient to a
low-priced brand of margarine that can be stored without
refrigeration. Guatemala halved the incidence of VAD among pre-
schoolers by fortifying sugar.
Despite such successes, many countries remain wary of adding
micronutrients to their staple diet, citing reasons of cost,
custom, and concern over the 'adulteration' of foods, says USAID's
Frances Davidson.
Nutrition advocates in developing countries have long
acknowledged the benefits of fortification - of salt with iodine,
for example, to combat goitre, a swelling of the thyroid gland in
the neck which afflicts some 650 million people. But many have
also voiced anger at the manufacturers and advertisers of more
commercial processed foods, who have drawn special attention to
the presence of micronutrients in their products in a bid to
increase market share.
In so doing, experts have complained, these companies have
contributed to the displacement of local foodstuffs from daily
meals. As a consequence, many small-scale producers of nutritious
traditional foodstuffs have been run out of business - a setback
for the local economy, culture, and diet. (END/IPS/AA/97)
Origin: Washington/FOOD-FINANCE/
----
[c] 1997, InterPress Third World News Agency (IPS)
All rights reserved
------------------------------
Date: 05 Aug 1997 22:41:35 GMT
From: momodou@inform-bbs.dk (Momodou Camara)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Fwd: U.S.-AFRICA: Getting Democracy Wron
Message-ID: <1989603229.330310593@inform-bbs.dk>
Copyright 1997 InterPress Service, all rights reserved.
Worldwide distribution via the APC networks.
*** 29-Jul-97 ***
Title: U.S.-AFRICA: Getting Democracy Wrong/EMBARGOED
/ATT EDS: The following item is EMBARGOED and may not be
printed or otherwise reproduced before 0001 GMT Wednesday, July
30/
WASHINGTON, Jul 30 (IPS) - The U.S. government's campaign to
promote democracy in African countries lacks vision and is being
undermined by its military ties with repressive regimes, says a
report released here today.
Costing 100 million dollars a year, Washington's pro-democracy
effort focuses too narrowly on multiparty elections and turns a
blind eye to programmes controlled by the Pentagon and the Central
Intelligence Agency (CIA), according to the report, issued by
Demilitarisation for Democracy (DFD), a Washington-based research
and advocacy group.
''Our government's myopic pursuit of elections is not only
ineffective, but at times even counter-productive to the
development of a strong civil society,'' says Caleb Rossiter, the
group's director.
''Add to that a Pentagon and CIA clearly out of touch with the
reality that arming and training repressive armed forces simply
creates stronger repressive armed forces, and you have a picture
of the most powerful democracy on earth being more of an obstacle
than a help to those struggling for freedom and accountability in
Africa,'' Rossiter adds.
DFD is pushing its report as a challenge to the administration
of President Bill Clinton, which in recent months has promoted a
package of aid and trade measures it says amounts to a new U.S.
policy toward Africa.
The group urges the administration to cease U.S. weapons
supplies and military training for repressive regimes, and to
prohibit the CIA from using bribery and other ''corrupting methods
to gather intelligence.'' It supports calls for a system of U.N.
special envoys to hold ''regional confidence-building and force-
reduction'' talks.
In the economic sphere, the study recommends that U.S. economic
aid - both direct and through multilateral agencies such as the
World Bank - be released on condition that African nations open
their military budgets to civilian auditors. It urges a more even
distribution of the benefits of economic growth and an increase in
African countries' voting power at the Bank, the International
Monetary Fund (IMF), and the United Nations.
The document highlights ''the high level of military political
and economic power'' as a major obstacle to democracy in Africa.
Yet, ''despite the terrible results of the 1980s, when the five
largest recipients of U.S. weapons in sub-Saharan Africa (Angola,
Liberia, Somalia, Sudan, and then-Zaire) descended into anarchy,
U.S. policy still seems locked in (the) Cold War''.
Seventy-one percent of the 3,408 African military personnel
trained under the U.S. International Military Education and
Training programme (IMET) in 1991-1995 were from repressive
regimes, the group says.
The number of African countries conducting joint combat
exercises with U.S. forces has risen, from 20 in 1995 to a
proposed 33 in 1998, DFD adds. Among nations it considers
authoritarian, Djibouti and Egypt took part in 1995 and 1996 and
are slated to do so again this year and in 1998. Likewise Kenya,
which held joint exercises last year.
As the report acknowledges, U.S. officials say these training
programmes are a form of 'constructive engagement' intended to
encourage military reform in these countries.
Entitled 'Fighting Retreat: Military Political Power and Other
Barriers to Africa's Democratic Transition', the report is based
on three years of study and extensive travel within Africa.
Researchers met with non-governmental organisations (NGOs) and
others in a bid, first of all, to find out what democracy means to
the citizens of African countries. They emerged with an ''NGO
consensus (which) holds that elections, even if regular, free, and
fair, are not enough, and that focusing on elections as the
primary measure of democracy obscures the need for dramatic
reforms in other areas.''
The groups pinned their greatest hopes on ''the principle of
consensus or, in French, 'concertation','' DFD says. It defines
this as ''a dialogue in which common ground is sought even though
one party clearly could outvote the other'', adding that it ''may
be the best way to protect minority concerns'' and defuse many of
the sectarian conflicts usually described as ethnic conflict in
foreign dispatches.
Using this ''NGO consensus'' as its lens, DFD studied 53
African countries. It describes six of these as ''consolidated
democracies''. These countries - Benin, Botswana, Cape Verde,
Mauritius, Namibia, and South Africa - are deemed to have free and
fair multi-party elections, respect for human rights, a
''credible'' judicial system, and a tradition of civilian control
of the armed forces.
Another 17 countries are ''transitional states'' where ''the
government generally reflects the will of the people as expressed
in free and fair elections,'' despite lingering press
restrictions, abuse of power by the ruling party, and lack of
military accountability. These countries include Angola, Senegal,
and Zambia.
Some 26 percent of Africa's 700 million people live in
consolidated democracies and transitional states, the report says.
''U.S. policy-makers and foreign aid programmes can take credit
for assisting with the electoral process in a number of these
difficult transitions by linking U.S. relations to the fairness of
the elections and by providing technical help,'' it concedes.
Nevertheless, it partly blames U.S. policy for the continued
existence of 26 authoritarian regimes, including Morocco, Nigeria,
and Sierra Leone. Some of these countries have multi-party
systems, ''but citizens are effectively denied the ability to
change their government by peaceful means'' because of political
intimidation by ruling parties and the military.
Four African countries are ''dissolving nation-states,'' whose
central governments have been rendered ''irrelevant'' by ''anarchy
or a civil war'', the report adds. These are Burundi, Liberia,
Somalia, and Congo, formerly Zaire. (END/IPS/AA/97)
Origin: Washington/U.S.-AFRICA/
----
[c] 1997, InterPress Third World News Agency (IPS)
All rights reserved
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 18:19:57 PDT
From: "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com>
To: kolls567@qatar.net.qa, gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: RE: ENQUIRY - JAINABA DIALLO
Message-ID: <19970806011957.10579.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Bassss,
Relax my friend!!! I didn't know that it is a rule to introduce oneself
upon joining the forum...I did not receive any membership rules/codes of
conduct etc.
I did receive a message from Mr. Camara to introduce myself, but I just
forgot to do so. Take care!!!!!
Jainaba Ousmane Diallo.
>From gambia-l-owner@u.washington.edu Tue Aug 5 03:45:53 1997
>Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13])
> by lists2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with
SMTP
> id DAA07128; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 03:41:52 -0700
>Received: from mx4.u.washington.edu (mx4.u.washington.edu
[140.142.33.5])
> by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with
ESMTP
> id DAA44228 for <gambia-l@lists.u.washington.edu>; Tue, 5 Aug 1997
03:41:45 -0700
>Received: from qatar.net.qa (qatar.net.qa [194.133.33.11])
> by mx4.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.04) with
SMTP
> id DAA23299 for <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>; Tue, 5 Aug 1997
03:41:40 -0700
>Received: from dibl.qatar.net.qa by qatar.net.qa
(SMI-8.6/Qatar-Internet-Sendmail It's now Tue, 5 Aug 1997 13:37:22
-0300)
> id NAA18181; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 13:37:22 -0300
>Received: by dibl.qatar.net.qa with Microsoft Mail
> id <01BCA1A5.82F373C0@dibl.qatar.net.qa>; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 13:43:09
+-300
>Message-Id: <01BCA1A5.82F373C0@dibl.qatar.net.qa>
>Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 13:43:03 +-300
>Reply-To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
>Sender: GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu
>Precedence: bulk
>From: BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
>To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
>Subject: RE: ENQUIRY - JAINABA DIALLO
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----
=_NextPart_000_01BCA1A5.82FC9B80"
>X-To: "'gambia-l@u.washington.edu'" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
>X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN
>
>Yes,I am also very interested to know that.That is why it is a rule
that =
>every new commer should introduce herself.So,please,kindly introduce =
>yourself !
>
>And thanks very much for your cooperation in advance.
>
> Regards Bassss!
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 22:32:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: Abdourahman Touray <abdou@cs.columbia.edu>
To: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: LA-LA-LA
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.970805221130.18909B-100000@rum.cs.columbia.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Hi folks,
Grotnes, I can relate to your frustration about the seemingly
misfocused Gambian attention span. In my opinion, a politics of
victimism (blame the West, slavery, etc) has robbed Gambian discourse of
most substance. Coupled with this fact is the element of fear. Even
as the regime of Yaya Jammeh continues to rob the nation of its freedom
and money, the intellectual elite remains blinded with anti-American
hysteria and fear of Jammeh's thuggish NIA.
But I think this is changing slowly. Younger Gambians in
general tend to be less captivated with fear and bankrupt socialism. You
should also know that there are actually private initiatives in the
pipeline to improve the technology in the country. One day, we will indeed
have networked PCs in at least some Gambian high schools.
On the issue of technology, I think it is sad that the Internet
initiative is being led by bureaucrats and not by technorats and private
individuals. The Gambian government and the UN have very few successes
between them and should just provide the money and stay out.
-Abdou.
>From my knowledge of bureaucrats,
The political
culture is schooled in outdated socialistic priniciples and steeped
On Tue, 5 Aug 1997, The Gambia-L shadow list wrote:
> This is forwarded from "Torstein Grotnes" <tgr@commit.gm>
> (tgr@commit.gm)
>
>
> I am sitting here in Fajara and reading my Gambia-L mails and I am
> wondering why a question about a word
> (meaning someone singing in my language), gets seven-eight concerned
> answers while
> straight to the bone articles from Mr. Pa Musa Jallow with topics that will
> decide the future for The Gambia is met with a big silence or uninterested
> questions(exept a toubab or two)?!
>
> Are there to many academic heads in this discussion group, knowing deep
> down
> that whatever they do, it will probably not be done in The Gambia?!
>
> Why did/does not any of the many highly educated and Internet knowledgeble
> Gambians abroad start what we
> are doing in The Gambia, providing important information structure to
> Gambians in The Gambia, or any other important
> pioneering project like bringing a thousand 486 computers, and distributing
> it to the different schools?!
> Why not just do something, like we did?
> How do you expect Gambia-L to have any meaning for The Gambia if what you
> say should be done about The Gambia is not reaching the country? It's like
> shouting in deep space!
>
> About us we will probably be the poorest ISP in the whole world with a
> customerbase of 500-1000 accounts( hopefully).
> Why did we throw out our $150000 jobs in Norway, sold our nice houses/cars
> to finance a small company in The Gambia?!?
> Could it actually be that we saw something important in providing these
> services in this country?
>
> I have only been in the Gambia for seven months, but I will take my chance
> to state that if there was any time to get Gambia
> going up/forward or whatever direction is the right it should start NOW!
>
> So how about seeing some implementation or ACTION as I would call it?
>
> Just as I am finishing this mail, the power goes off (probably for some
> hours at the best!).
> If this had discouraged us, we would have been gone home a long time ago.
> In stead we invest in a generator and UPS system.
>
> How about some of you power-engineering people start coming down and
> introducing some good ideas and standards.
> I know the private sector would be happy about it!
> Even more important would be to start changing the political
> environment/system and maybe get rid of some of these civil servants Pa
> Musa is talking about...
>
> And please, Mr. Bassirou Dodou Drammeh, how can you say, "keep up the good
> work DOWN THERE" when if anybody YOU should
> be down here doing some good work?!?
>
> Yours truly,
> For The Gambia
> Torstein Grotnes
> Commit enterprises Ltd.
>
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 22:37:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ancha Bala-Gaye u <bala7500@mach1.wlu.ca>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Cc: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: LA-LA-LA
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9708052125.A9678-0100000@mach1.wlu.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Tue, 5 Aug 1997, The Gambia-L shadow list wrote:
> This is forwarded from "Torstein Grotnes" <tgr@commit.gm>
> (tgr@commit.gm)
>
>
> I am sitting here in Fajara and reading my Gambia-L mails and I am
> wondering why a question about a word
> (meaning someone singing in my language), gets seven-eight concerned
> answers while
> straight to the bone articles from Mr. Pa Musa Jallow with topics that will
> decide the future for The Gambia is met with a big silence or uninterested
> questions(exept a toubab or two)?!
Mr Grotness, being busy with exams etc, I haven't been able to
read maybe about two of Pa Musa Jallows messages because they are long,
but deserve careful reading cause of the truth they contain etc.
from what I have read, he mostly tells us what is happening and gives
suggestions of what can be done to correct things at home. I for one have
nothing to say cause I'm ignorant when it comes to matters like
decentralisation of governments, privatising companies etc. Hence I
cannot make any worth while contributions to such a discussion. My major
and interests are different and focuses on diferent aspects of the countries
problems like health issues, education etc. people's majors,interests and
knowledge on different subject matter on this net are diverse, hence some
people respond only when certain subject matters are raised. On the
aspects of how Pa
Musa is/was treated by his ***** director, what else can be said about
such a
common practise??? apart from "you're sooo right about that!! I remember
when my cousin was working for ....and his boss also......"??? Now, if there
was something we could do
for him from this side of the world then we would give it our best shot.
I was wondering what YOU wanted to here about this situation. do you want
us to also tell him about our experiences of discrimination in our own
country esp during the tourist season when one cannot go to swim in hotel
pools etc or do you want suggestions on how this type of behaviour can be
terminated???
> How do you expect Gambia-L to have any meaning for The Gambia if what you
> say should be done about The Gambia is not reaching the country? It's like
> shouting in deep space!
Apart from forming an education group which we're trying to get
on the way, do you have any suggestions about how our voices can be heard
down there from here. How can we get the President, the Education
minister etc to listen to us and actually have a discussion with us. This
way, we can tell him/her what our ideas are and hear why what we have to
say can or cannot be implemented. hence we can go from there. What do you
suggest??
> Why did we throw out our $150000 jobs in Norway, sold our nice houses/cars
> to finance a small company in The Gambia?!?
> Could it actually be that we saw something important in providing these
> services in this country?
>so how about seeing some implementation or ACTION as I would call it?
I don't think that you should expect everyone to try and help the
country the way you have. Some people feel that they are better off
helping the country from abroad because they cannot go back to the type
of life style The Gambia offers or because they cannot function under the
present working conditions. OR, some just don't care about their country
and will go where ever they can obtain as much material goods as they can
without having to share it with the "extended family" , "friends",
"distant relations" etc. Others like Pa Musa are at home and struggling
to change the system. What can I say to Pa Musa except that I'm very
proud of him???
Others have gone home and tried to share their knowledge without success.
And the rest, very few it would seem, are on their way. And whether they
will succeed or not remains to be seen.
I guess another thing is that you had accomplished something from broad
before you gave it all up for The Gambia. Maybe there are people who wish
to accomplish the same thing before packing up and heading for home finally.
I really would like to know what your answers or suggestions are and
your honesty is apreciated. I also hope you're not offended by anything
I've said. And as I finish this message I'm going back to read the one
message from Pa Musa I haven't fully read. Actually, I won't be suprised
if you get a mouth full from others on this list. your message was
provocating but I'ld like to say thank you for waking us up.
Ancha.
Sorry for the long message everyone.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 23:29:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ancha Bala-Gaye u <bala7500@mach1.wlu.ca>
To: The Gambia-L shadow list <gambia-l@commit.gm>
Cc: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Development of SubSaharan Africa 4
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9708052240.A9678-0100000@mach1.wlu.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Mon, 4 Aug 1997, The Gambia-L shadow list wrote:
> This is forwarded from "Pa Musa Jallow" <pmj@commit.gm>
> (pmj@commit.gm)
>
> businesses..there are no authentic Gambian companies over 20 years
> old..they are old bankrupt or defunct..the only ones remaining are Lebanese
> or Indian..(this is telling cos if one looks deeply into the matter..you
> discoover that on average..the Lebanese and Indians are
> poorer-educated..but they have developed a superior network and it seems
> we..the Africans work better against each other than with or for each
>other...another topic)
hello Pa Musa, I've read your messages and from what litle
I understand of it, it makes perfect sense and I have nothing to add to it.
BUT what would interest me is what your opinion is on the matter of how
much more our people seem to respect and or support foreigners rather
than our own. Like you mentioned above, why do you think we still have
have the tendency to work against each each other rather than with each
other. I mean, even in the slavery days, we helped the white man
take our people away. This image of working against each other just
doesn't fit with the "our house" image does it??. It seems we like to
help each other only to an extent.
Maybe it has something to do with the mentality of: help someone
less fortunate than you But do NOT help that person until they are
better than you ie we're afraid of appearing less knowledgeable or powerful
than what people around us think, in this case, your director.
Do you think this type of attitude will change once people from a
different generation take over??
Another thing I wanted to know was; how many people feel like you
do at work about your director. And even if many feel the same way you
do, how many of them are wiling to stand up for their beliefs???
Not many I would think. Another question is, why are we so afraid to
stand up for our beliefs esp against an authority figure?? It's very rare
to see this at home. do people know that if we stand together and refuse
to budge there is a higher probability that things might change AND even
if they don't, change takes time hence it might not happen during one's
life time???. Anyway, I have to take off now but hope to hear your answers.
By the way, welcome.
Ancha.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 02:20:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: MJawara@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Summer Jam
Message-ID: <970806022051_604744379@emout05.mail.aol.com>
In a message dated 97-08-04 11:37:13 EDT, you wrote:
<< What is the fundraising for??
hg >>
Sorry for the late reply.I've not logged on since my previous posting on this
subject. The Gambian Support Group is an organization of about 60 people and
almost all live in the Washington Metropolitan Area.About 5 yrs. ago, The
Gambian community in the Takoma Park and Silver Spring area lost a friend and
room mate, Momodou Sabally.Sabally as he was commonly called, was a student
at UDC.Friends faced the arduous task of sending the body back home.Since his
untimely death, we've been pondering on the need for an association that
could help in emergencies. Needless to say, numerous attempts were made in
the wake of his death to organize ourselves to no avail.February last year, a
group of Gambians met and agreed to associate with the expressed
determination of helping each other in time of need. This includes, but not
limited to the following :- Death, Wedding ceremony, Naming ceremony, Legal
related problems... One of our long term objectives is to provide assistance
to students in The Gambia.The Gambian Support Group offers equal opportunity
for all irrespective of race, gender, religion, ethnic background, political
affiliation or sexual orientation.Since its formation, we've been paying our
monthly dues of $10.00.We realized that we could improve our bottom line by
sponsoring fund raising activities.We had our first fund raising bash on
Christmas Eve last year and it was a great success.Currently, we're selling
Gambian Support Group T' Shirts for $10.00 and also attending to the
necessary details for the upcoming bash.With some money in the bank, INSHALAH
in an emergency, we may be in a better position to defray some expenses or
provide some form of assistance.I hope I've answered your question.I just got
in from work and a bit tired.You may write again if you need more info.
Musa.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 00:19:44 PDT
From: "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com>
To: gambia-l@commit.gm, gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: LA-LA-LA
Message-ID: <199708060719.AAA24230@f44.hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Torstein,
What have you been smoking???? I just got home and feeling very tired,
hence the short reply.
My response is intersperced in yours below......
>This is forwarded from "Torstein Grotnes" <tgr@commit.gm>
> (tgr@commit.gm)
>
>
>I am sitting here in Fajara and reading my Gambia-L mails and I am
>wondering why a question about a word
>(meaning someone singing in my language), gets seven-eight concerned
>answers while
>straight to the bone articles from Mr. Pa Musa Jallow with topics that
will
>decide the future for The Gambia is met with a big silence or
uninterested
>questions(exept a toubab or two)?!
I agree !! Who cares what it means or its origin...the person who made
the request must be suprised about the fuzz.
>About us we will probably be the poorest ISP in the whole world with a
>customerbase of 500-1000 accounts( hopefully).
>Why did we throw out our $150000 jobs in Norway, sold our nice
houses/cars
>to finance a small company in The Gambia?!?
>Could it actually be that we saw something important in providing these
>services in this country?
You probably do. It is your prerogative to sell your "nice" bla bla bla
to setup your company...nobody forced you, my friend!!!!!
>I have only been in the Gambia for seven months, but I will take my
chance
>to state that if there was any time to get Gambia
>going up/forward or whatever direction is the right it should start
NOW!
>
>So how about seeing some implementation or ACTION as I would call it?
>
>Just as I am finishing this mail, the power goes off (probably for some
>hours at the best!).
It is good that the power is out, you definitely need some sleep. Go
rest my friend. "And keep up the good work down there"
Jainaba.
>
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 09:24:48 +0200
From: momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: (Fwd): UNITED NATIONS: UNDP Calls for Penalties Against Co
Message-ID: <19970806082727.AAB29122@LOCALNAME>
Copyright 1997 InterPress Service, all rights reserved.
Worldwide distribution via the APC networks.
*** 29-Jul-97 ***
Title: UNITED NATIONS: UNDP Calls for Penalties Against Corruption
UNITED NATIONS, Jul 29 (IPS) - Arguing that corruption is a
hindrance to economic growth, the U.N. Development Programme
(UNDP) wants international organisations to cut off assistance to
projects tainted by bribery and other corrupt practices.
Aid agencies ''need to be sceptical of supporting projects that
make it easy for public officials to hide private gains,'' says a new
UNDP report on 'Corruption and Good Governance' released here Tuesday.
''If they cannot, projects should not be approved or should be
cancelled if they have already begun,'' says the 138-page study,
which acknowledges similar concerns among Western donors.
In remarks reminiscent of statements by other senior aid
officials, UNDP Administrator James Gustave Speth said that
corruption is usually endemic at all levels of societies and
represents a cancer afflicting their prospects for successful
development. UNDP intends to support both direct and indirect
assaults on corrupt practices, he added.
Speth said indirect approaches include public information
reform and the building of fair, open, competitive systems to
allow companies to compete for contracts to provide goods and
services under development projects. UNDP also seeks stronger
management of external resources and the strengthening of 'civil
society' - meaning non-governmental organisations (NGOs) and
citizens' groups - as a watchdog against corruption.
Direct action would include strengthening laws against
corruption and appointing anti-corruption ombudsmen, he added.
''The international community, particularly the private sector,
also has a responsibility to ensure high standards of
accountability and transparency in its dealings with countries,''
Speth added.
The UNDP study coincides with a three-day conference on good
governance which opened here Monday. The meeting has attracted
more than a 1,000 participants, including mayors,
parliamentarians, judges, community leaders, and NGO
representatives.
On Monday, Speth announced a 36-million-dollar pilot project to
promote good governance in developing countries - including
efforts to curb bribery and corruption.
UNDP's new study sets out to demonstrate why a reduction in
corruption will improve the prospects for sustainable human
development. It reviews the economic roots of corrupt incentives,
assesses the impact of systemic corruption on efforts to promote
economic growth and reduce poverty, and makes specific suggestions to
individual countries and the international community.
The agency admits there are a number of international efforts
under way to discourage corruption in business deals but adds:
''These are worthy, but they cannot succeed unless they are
complemented by concentrated efforts within individual
countries.''
In January, the 185-member General Assembly adopted a
resolution requesting Secretary-General Kofi Annan to assist
member states in designing strategies to prevent and control
corruption.
Last November, the U.N.'s Economic and Social Council (ECOSOC)
approved a declaration urging member states to criminalise all
acts of bribery in international transactions and deny tax
deductibility for bribes - a common practice in some Western
nations.
In April last year, the 26-member Organisation for Economic
Cooperation and Development (OECD), under intense U.S. pressure,
decided that it should outlaw bribery in international business
dealings.
The Paris-based OECD committed its membership of mainly
industrial, wealthy nations to rewriting tax rules that have long
encouraged the bribing of foreign officials by treating those bribes
as legitimate business expenses eligible for special tax treatment.
The new rules, when enacted, would make such payoffs ineligible for
tax deductions.
''This is a sea change, a very important step in breaking the
international chain of corruption,'' David Aaron, U.S.
representative to the OECD, said at the time. ''It takes
governments out of the business of subsidising corruption by
giving tax breaks for bribery.''
The United States is perhaps the only major Western nation that
bars companies from paying bribes to foreign officials, analysts
say. Bribery has been declared a crime under the U.S. Foreign
Corrupt Practices Act of 1977.
The U.S. move to delegitimise bribery is being interpreted as
an attempt to remove the ''unfair'' advantage most Western nations
have had over the United States on international business deals.
U.S. officials have argued that, betweeen April 1994 and May
1995, there were some 100 cases in which foreign bribes undercut
U.S. firms' ability to win contracts - a loss of business valued
at around 45 million dollars.
Shabbir Cheema, director of UNDP's Management Development and
Governance Division, said the question of corruption was a highly
complex one and that no one expects it to be completely eliminated
from any society. Indeed, he added, the opportunities for corruption
often increase as societies go through rapid economic transformations.
Last year the Berlin-based Transpanency International
identified Nigeria, Pakistan, Kenya, Bangladesh and China as five of
the world's most corrupt nations. At the same time, it identified New
Zealand, Denmark, Sweden, Finland and Canada as the five least corrupt
nations.
The growing international campaign to do away with corruption
has had a mixed reaction in developing countries. Many governments and
businesses have welcomed these efforts but others have asked when the
donors will turn their gaze inwards.
Of particular concern to many is the practice of tied aid,
which forces recipient countries to buy goods and services from
donors in exchange for development financing. By some estimates,
such contracts cost developing countries 10-30 percent more than
if they had been allowed to shop around.
U.N. agencies and the World Bank pride themselves on
competitive bidding rules meant to ensure the biggest bang for
their development dollars but these institutions have also come
under fire for operating special funds tied to specific donor
countries. (END/IPS/td/aa/97)
Origin: Washington/UNITED NATIONS/
----
[c] 1997, InterPress Third World News Agency (IPS)
All rights reserved
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 13:43:43 +-300
From: BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
To: "'gambia-l@u.washington.edu'" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: RE: Belated Introduction.......
Message-ID: <01BCA26E.C6D54860@dicp.qatar.net.qa>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BCA26E.C6D54860"
------ =_NextPart_000_01BCA26E.C6D54860
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
You are most WELCOME!
Regards Basss!
----------
From: Jainaba Diallo[SMTP:jai_diallo@hotmail.com]
Sent: 06 =D4=DA=C8=C7=E4, 1997 1:28
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
Subject: Belated Introduction.......
Fellow Gambia-Lers,
Sorry for the belated intro., my name is Jainaba Diallo. I am originally =
senegalese, but recently immigrated to Canada. I am a chemical Engineer=20
by profession (did my B.Sc and M.Sc at U. of Sydney, Australia), I'll=20
start an MBA program this fall at Simon Fraser University in Burnaby,=20
Canada.
I did visit the Gambia on several occasions, the most recent being Dec.=20
1995.
Thanks for having me on the List.
Best wishes,
Jainaba.
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 13:56:58 +-300
From: BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
To: "'gambia-l@u.washington.edu'" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: RE: LA-LA-LA
Message-ID: <01BCA270.9E220DC0@dicp.qatar.net.qa>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BCA270.9E220DC0"
------ =_NextPart_000_01BCA270.9E220DC0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Well,I can't tell you, Mr.Grotnes how absolutely right you are;Gambia =
indeed,cannot go anywhere without us.But without going into unnecessary =
details,I want to inform you that I am very seriously thinking about =
coming back.
And again,what else should I say except:Keep up the good work down =
there!
Regards Bassss!
----------
From: The Gambia-L shadow list[SMTP:gambia-l@commit.gm]
Sent: 05 =D4=DA=C8=C7=E4, 1997 22:31
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
Subject: LA-LA-LA
This is forwarded from "Torstein Grotnes" <tgr@commit.gm>
(tgr@commit.gm)
I am sitting here in Fajara and reading my Gambia-L mails and I am
wondering why a question about a word=20
(meaning someone singing in my language), gets seven-eight concerned
answers while
straight to the bone articles from Mr. Pa Musa Jallow with topics that =
will
decide the future for The Gambia is met with a big silence or =
uninterested
questions(exept a toubab or two)?!
Are there to many academic heads in this discussion group, knowing deep
down
that whatever they do, it will probably not be done in The Gambia?!
Why did/does not any of the many highly educated and Internet =
knowledgeble
Gambians abroad start what we
are doing in The Gambia, providing important information structure to
Gambians in The Gambia, or any other important=20
pioneering project like bringing a thousand 486 computers, and =
distributing
it to the different schools?!
Why not just do something, like we did?
How do you expect Gambia-L to have any meaning for The Gambia if what =
you
say should be done about The Gambia is not reaching the country? It's =
like
shouting in deep space!
About us we will probably be the poorest ISP in the whole world with a
customerbase of 500-1000 accounts( hopefully).
Why did we throw out our $150000 jobs in Norway, sold our nice =
houses/cars
to finance a small company in The Gambia?!?
Could it actually be that we saw something important in providing these
services in this country?
I have only been in the Gambia for seven months, but I will take my =
chance
to state that if there was any time to get Gambia
going up/forward or whatever direction is the right it should start NOW!
So how about seeing some implementation or ACTION as I would call it?
Just as I am finishing this mail, the power goes off (probably for some
hours at the best!).
If this had discouraged us, we would have been gone home a long time =
ago.
In stead we invest in a generator and UPS system.
How about some of you power-engineering people start coming down and
introducing some good ideas and standards.
I know the private sector would be happy about it!
Even more important would be to start changing the political
environment/system and maybe get rid of some of these civil servants Pa
Musa is talking about...
And please, Mr. Bassirou Dodou Drammeh, how can you say, "keep up the =
good
work DOWN THERE" when if anybody YOU should
be down here doing some good work?!?
Yours truly,
For The Gambia
Torstein Grotnes
Commit enterprises Ltd.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 13:18:53 +0200
From: Badara Joof <Joof@winhlp.no>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: RE: LA-LA-LA
Message-ID: <10ABECE967B3D01185FC0060B051425908B46B@obelix.winhlp.no>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Well Mr. Torstein Grotnes, you are right in some how. But not all
Gambians living abroad can just pack their things and travel back to =
The
Gambia.
What about people that have their families abroad, do you mean that =
they
just have to leave their kids and wives here and return back to The
Gambia?
I do not think so, our children need both their American/European
parents and us. As for me I will never think of moving back without my
family.
And is the situation very stable in The Gambia that people can return
back as we always hear about attempted coups and so on..
Regards Ras..
> -----Original Message-----
> From: kolls567@qatar.net.qa [SMTP:kolls567@qatar.net.qa]
> Sent: 6. august 1997 12:57
> To: 'gambia-l@u.washington.edu'
> Subject: RE: LA-LA-LA
>=20
> Well,I can't tell you, Mr.Grotnes how absolutely right you are;Gambia
> indeed,cannot go anywhere without us.But without going into
> unnecessary details,I want to inform you that I am very seriously
> thinking about coming back.
>=20
> And again,what else should I say except:Keep up the good work down
> there!
>=20
> Regards Bassss!
>=20
> ----------
> From: The Gambia-L shadow list[SMTP:gambia-l@commit.gm]
> Sent: 05 =D4=DA=C8=C7=E4, 1997 22:31
> To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
> Subject: LA-LA-LA
>=20
> This is forwarded from "Torstein Grotnes" <tgr@commit.gm>
> (tgr@commit.gm)
>=20
>=20
> I am sitting here in Fajara and reading my Gambia-L mails and I
> am
> wondering why a question about a word=20
> (meaning someone singing in my language), gets seven-eight
> concerned
> answers while
> straight to the bone articles from Mr. Pa Musa Jallow with
> topics that will
> decide the future for The Gambia is met with a big silence or
> uninterested
> questions(exept a toubab or two)?!
>=20
> Are there to many academic heads in this discussion group,
> knowing deep
> down
> that whatever they do, it will probably not be done in The
> Gambia?!
>=20
> Why did/does not any of the many highly educated and Internet
> knowledgeble
> Gambians abroad start what we
> are doing in The Gambia, providing important information
> structure to
> Gambians in The Gambia, or any other important=20
> pioneering project like bringing a thousand 486 computers, and
> distributing
> it to the different schools?!
> Why not just do something, like we did?
> How do you expect Gambia-L to have any meaning for The Gambia if
> what you
> say should be done about The Gambia is not reaching the country?
> It's like
> shouting in deep space!
>=20
> About us we will probably be the poorest ISP in the whole world
> with a
> customerbase of 500-1000 accounts( hopefully).
> Why did we throw out our $150000 jobs in Norway, sold our nice
> houses/cars
> to finance a small company in The Gambia?!?
> Could it actually be that we saw something important in
> providing these
> services in this country?
>=20
> I have only been in the Gambia for seven months, but I will take
> my chance
> to state that if there was any time to get Gambia
> going up/forward or whatever direction is the right it should
> start NOW!
>=20
> So how about seeing some implementation or ACTION as I would
> call it?
>=20
> Just as I am finishing this mail, the power goes off (probably
> for some
> hours at the best!).
> If this had discouraged us, we would have been gone home a long
> time ago.
> In stead we invest in a generator and UPS system.
>=20
> How about some of you power-engineering people start coming down
> and
> introducing some good ideas and standards.
> I know the private sector would be happy about it!
> Even more important would be to start changing the political
> environment/system and maybe get rid of some of these civil
> servants Pa
> Musa is talking about...
>=20
> And please, Mr. Bassirou Dodou Drammeh, how can you say, "keep
> up the good
> work DOWN THERE" when if anybody YOU should
> be down here doing some good work?!?
>
> Yours truly,
> For The Gambia
> Torstein Grotnes
> Commit enterprises Ltd.
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 9:06:03 -0500
From: hghanim@nusacc.org
To: gndow@spelman.edu, gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: RE: LALA???
Message-ID: <QQdbku27768.199708061310@relay7.UU.NET>
Latjor,
Good morning, I was just adding to the comments of BASSS about the fula
family names that were around since the time of the ancient Egypt. You
are also making the same point as all of us. Let's forget the word legend
and I think the whole picture will be clear.
Peace
Habib
-----Original Message-----
From: gndow@spelman.edu
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 1997 4:58 PM
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: RE: LALA???
<< File: ENVELOPE.TXT >>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Greetings:
I have been away for a while and glad to be back in the fold. While I am
digesting the various discourses currently on the table, let me quickly
touch on what Habib stated in passing:
>Also it may be worthwhile mentioning that some legendary beliefs claim
that the Fulanis are originally products of intermarriages between the
black Africans and some 40 (forty) Arab scholars who were sent to
Timbuktu ( a city in Mali that had the only & first library established
in the African continent for science and religion ) to learn about
science and teach the Islamic religion.<
While this may be a legend or a belief, it bears no scientific or
historical
merit. The 'Ba's' and the 'Kah's" have been around long before there was
a Timbuktu, let alone some 40 Arab scholars.
In peace,
LatJor
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 9:06:58 -0500
From: hghanim@nusacc.org
To: gndow@spelman.edu, gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: RE: LALA???
Message-ID: <QQdbku28066.199708061311@relay7.UU.NET>
Latjor ,
Yes you are right ,I am basing it all on strictly religious beliefs and
that is why I need to clarify what both of us are saying are the same but
in different context.
Peace
Habib
-----Original Message-----
From: gndow@spelman.edu
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 1997 5:14 PM
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: RE: LALA???
<< File: ENVELOPE.TXT >>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Another historical notation:
Habib wrote:
>I am sure it goes back all the way to our Patriarch Ibrahim(Abraham)
First, during the time of Ibrahim, all 72 pyramids in Egypt had already
been
constructed, spanning several millenia. So the Fulas have been around
long
before this Hebrew.
> certainly ADAMA and AWAH from whom we all were created.
This is a religious belief and as such would be futile to debate on.
Since it
is faith that dictates the logic here.
LatJor
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 16:19:41 +0200
From: abdoub@math.uio.no
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Message-ID: <199708061419.QAA08670@melpomene.uio.no>
Hi Torstein and co out there,
I take it that moving to the Gambia to establish a business wasn't done
purely on humanitarian grounds. If that isn't the case then I think it
would have been wiser keeping your cosy job in Norway. Some thoughtful
Africans, like the leaders in Uganda, have now realised what the
philanthropic gestures from the developed world do entail - exploitation
in the form of using Africa (and the rest of the developing world) as
dumping grounds for unwanted products and (redundant) services (labour
included). What Africa really needs is direct investments, which on a
long-term basis would yield benefits for all involved parties. One
shouldn't at all mind people like you establishing something out there
to make money and no excuses shouldn't be expected of you either. The
only hope I do have is that there are institutions out there that can
make the whole venture also worthwhile for local people. If jobs are
created and a conducive environment emerges so that others (locals say)
can follow these entrepreneurs footsteps then I think everybody would be
happy. The non-existence of such institutions always leads to what is
now the legacy of the bad governments that took over after the Europeans
departed.
Imagine that the Europeans never colonised America and that the allied
powers (excluding the USA) somehow miraculously managed to defeat the
Nazis in the destructive war that World War II was for Europe. Can one
then imagine Europe being what it is today? Oh well, it is difficult to
conjure what things would be like today, but one thing is certain;
today's level of material prosperity would have been achieved after far
greater sacrifices. The point is that if one didn't have a European
Diaspora (that flocked to places of opportunity - places with
"abundance" of mineral wealth, labour (slaves), etc), the world would
have been very different today. In some parts of Norway about a third
(of the able bodied) population emigrated to the Americas around the
turn of the century solely because of poverty. I am sure that their
influence helped with the inclusion of Norway amongst the Marshall aid
recipients. Norwegians are today proud of these relatives on the other
side the pond even though the bonds are now just characterised by
anglicised surnames. Africans are also very proud of the Diaspora and
the bond is gonna get stronger.
In Europe (or most of the developed word) the unskilled immigrant is
doomed to menial jobs or lifelong unemployment and is often derided as a
"parasite". His skilled brethren normally has the competence most
functioning societies cannot do without all the time. So a subtle way of
an ethnic-prejudice telling this skilled person to "bugger off" (or "go
back home, we don't want you here") is to always bombard him with the
miseries that are wreaking havoc to his people and "reassurances" that
he has the know-how that would really make a difference. The
consequences of an academic going back home, I believe, comprises of two
extremes; one might end up just like Mr. Jallow - clinging to the ideal
of what is just and right and having many a frustrating encounter, or
succumbing to the system and ending up like his now god-like (and maybe
despised) director. There is a half-way house between the two extremes,
but it can only be settled in if one has the resources to, for instance,
say no to corruption and at the same time be able to attract positive
attention from the big powerful god-like figures. I think this is what
Torstein has got, and it is also what any "academic" (I am very
uncomfortable with this term!) who is having thoughts of embarking on a
homebound journey should be equipped with.=20
Big positive changes are nowadays happening in the African mind, the
African youth is no longer overwhelmed by all the influences from Europe
like the previous generation.
One small step..............and we are definitely gonna get to the promised
land.
Take care!
Abdou Bobb
>-----Original Message-----
>From: The Gambia-L shadow list [SMTP:gambia-l@commit.gm]
>Sent: 05 August 1997 21:32
>To: Bobb, Abdou
>Subject: LA-LA-LA
>
>This is forwarded from "Torstein Grotnes" <tgr@commit.gm>
> (tgr@commit.gm)
>
>
>I am sitting here in Fajara and reading my Gambia-L mails and I am
>wondering why a question about a word=20
>(meaning someone singing in my language), gets seven-eight concerned
>[Bobb, Abdou] ....
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 11:32:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: Salifuj@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: No Subject
Message-ID: <970806112910_131293433@emout08.mail.aol.com>
In a message dated 97-08-06 10:25:40 EDT, you write:
Abdou, you wrote:
<<
Hi Torstein and co out there,
I take it that moving to the Gambia to establish a business wasn't done
purely on humanitarian grounds. If that isn't the case then I think it
would have been wiser keeping your cosy job in Norway............
philanthropic gestures from the developed world do entail - exploitation
in the form of using Africa (and the rest of the developing world) as
dumping grounds for unwanted products and (redundant) services (labour
included). What Africa really needs is direct investments, which on a
long-term basis would yield benefits for all involved parties. One
shouldn't at all mind people like you establishing something out there
to make money and no excuses shouldn't be expected of you either. The
only hope I do have is that there are institutions out there that can
make the whole venture also worthwhile for local people. If jobs are
created and a conducive environment emerges so that others (locals say)
can follow these entrepreneurs footsteps then I think everybody would be
happy. The non-existence of such institutions always leads to what is
now the legacy of the bad governments that took over after the Europeans
departed.
>>
Abdou, my sentiments exactly.....they pretend they are doing us a favor
whereas deep down beneath their masks, they are actually profiteering from
our ignorance.
We can't blame though but I think what they should be boasting about is not
about leaving six figure salaries at home but adventuring to invest in a
continent to benefit all the people of that continent. I have yet to see that
commitment, however. Most of them will go in, make their profits and go out
before you even know it. As you said, this is why we need long term long term
"direct investments".
-Sal
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 14:04:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Malanding S. Jaiteh" <msjaiteh@mtu.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Cc: msjaiteh@mtu.edu (Malanding S. Jaiteh)
Subject: Re: LA-LA-LA
Message-ID: <199708061804.OAA03974@hemlock.ffr.mtu.edu>
Content-Type: text
>
>
> On Tue, 5 Aug 1997, The Gambia-L shadow list wrote:
>
> > This is forwarded from "Torstein Grotnes" <tgr@commit.gm>
> > (tgr@commit.gm)
Torstein you said:
...... answers while
> > straight to the bone articles from Mr. Pa Musa Jallow with topics that will
> > decide the future for The Gambia is met with a big silence or uninterested
> > questions(exept a toubab or two)?!
I will try not be seen too defensive in my answer even though I do not
wish to sound apologetic. Perhaps your comments about the discussions
on the meaning of the famous word be be a fair one I do not think the
silience on Pa Musa's contributions are anything but lack of interest
on the subject. I say this because Pa Musa did not really say anything
new. The problems of the Gambia and Africa had been the most dicussed
topics over the past 3 yrs of this lists existence. Comments might
come from different areas but basically they are the same! Well, not
quiet. Pa should be commended for bringing the subject up from the
perspective of Gambia-based Gambia-L members. Atleast many of the
critics would realize that no matter where we are the feelings of our
troubled past and our uncertain future as nations or societies are
equally shared by all.
> > Why did/does not any of the many highly educated and Internet knowledgeble
> > Gambians abroad start what we
> > are doing in The Gambia, providing important information structure to
> > Gambians in The Gambia, or any other important
> > pioneering project like bringing a thousand 486 computers, and distributing
> > it to the different schools?!
Torstein, the question of "De fal Nu Giss" the wollof saying meaning
Do as you say (Well I hope its the literal meaning!) had been raised
in many forms over the years. That is to say the the Gambia will be
well off if the professionals like us leaving abroad could return and
help fix the problem rather just talk. I guess this need for action had
prompted the List to start the Observer Online project. Once
estasblished I believe the benefit will go beyond just providing a
service to a handful of home-sick people dying to establish contact with
their remote relatives. So is the Education Support program aiming at
providing individuals and institution in Education in the Gambia.
Plans for this are currently being drafted and hopefully will be
submitted to the entire Gambia-L by Fall. I am sure another issue in
the pipeline is Health.
Also be informed that the majority if not all these experts we refer
to are all very young either at school or just taking up jobs. I
am confident that these people like most emmigrants take their
positions very seriously.
I think Abdou Bobb had made given a great contribution already for me
to repeat here.
> > About us we will probably be the poorest ISP in the whole world with a
> > customerbase of 500-1000 accounts( hopefully).
> > Why did we throw out our $150000 jobs in Norway, sold our nice houses/cars
> > to finance a small company in The Gambia?!?
> > Could it actually be that we saw something important in providing these
> > services in this country?
I think we should be grateful that you have decided to invest a few
bututs of your well-earned money into the Gambia. However, human
nature had shown that there is no something for nothing! I am sure the
satisfaction that, you are in where you want to be doing what you want
to do, is good enough reason to have someone like you invest in the
Gambia knowing that there can hardly be any serious enonomic gain. As
a result I think it not only poor judgement but serious disregard for
what you believe in if I tell you that "you must be nuts to think
that you can make it in the Gambia with that business". Not offense
just speaking in context.
> >
> > How about some of you power-engineering people start coming down and
> > introducing some good ideas and standards.
> > I know the private sector would be happy about it!
> > Even more important would be to start changing the political
> > environment/system and maybe get rid of some of these civil servants Pa
> > Musa is talking about...
> >
Torstein, I believe that Pa Musa's contribution should answer some of
the issues you raised above. Assuming what Pa said is how the case
went (not that I donot believe in him), where is the private sector or
those who would like the great changes he was suggesting? Perhaps we
should as Musa where he thinks he will want to work next in the
Gambia? Do you know that Pa's position is probably among the top 10 engineering
jobs in the Gambia government today? His salary is $250 per month.
There are many more at least in the Central Government (where I
am familiar) being paid with less than $180 US. You know nothing is
made in the Gambia (well we have peanut and some fish!). If so how can
someone with a family of 10 (not uncommon) execel professionally on
that? With only one effective employer (Govern. of the Gambia) where
do we turn to make ends meet, ensure our kids a better start in life
including education. When I was going to schools atleast there was
something called scholarships at High School or the A-level class.
Those expenses are now on the parents given that the government can
not reasonably afford it. However I cannot support my kids and kids of
my brothers and sisters who toiled at the farm while I was the chosen
one to go to school, with $150 US?
If you would not mind I will digress a little bit to comment on Pa
last message regarding being suspended. I do not want to comment on
the specific case but it is not inconceivable. The size of the Civil
Service fewer than a dozen Permanent Secretaries and perhaps a score
of Directors makes it easy for the old-boy mentality to persist. Most
of these were either classmates or form mates in Gambia High Scool or
Saint Augustine's. Secondly, many Directors or Civil servant in
general have cultivated the idea that the government is a take it or
leave it thing. An I do not think that is wrong. Many knew when they
leave the jobs they end up at the Banjul Market. Unfortunately Life
and family do not wait for anyone.
What do I say in conclusion? I say we must not be upset to see many
apparently educated Gambians migrating to other parts of the world. It
is a natural phenomenon. In any situation (even within the plant
kingdom) you migrate when resources are scarce. The Gambia cannot
conceivably absorb the two hundred or so experts on this List. Some,
they cannot afford to pay others, they cannot afford to remove those
that they can replace! On a philosophical note, today's emmigrants
could serve as valuable stock for the development of future Gambia.
Optimistic!!!
Have a good day and please have a sound sleep next time lights went
off. They may be saving us some valuable currency!
Malanding Jaiteh
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 03:41:57 +0900 (JST)
From: binta@iuj.ac.jp
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: No Subject
Message-ID: <199708061838.DAA01289@mlsv.iuj.ac.jp>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Fellows,
I am puzzled by this flow of words from some members on what Torstein
wrote about Gambians going home and taking their rightful place. Well,
i cannot speak for him, but I think some of us are over-reacting,
perhaps because he touched on our raw nerve--he simply spoke the
unspoken. And let us not fool ourselves. None from without is going
to clear our domestic mess for us. There can never be a conducive
environment in the Gambia while the cream of its sons and daughters
remain away in countries we keep on lambasting for our woes. Waiting
for that day when home will be sweet home may then be elusive.
I commend Torstein and co. for giving up what little they might have
given up to set up their internet company in the Gambia! They may
come to reap huge profits, but at least they took the entrepreneurial
step that many a Gambian would fail to take.
Let us be a bit more accommodating of views ( that may be very apt)
which contradict our line of thinking or way of doing things.
Lamin.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 22:13:26 +-300
From: BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
To: "'Gambia-l@U.washington.edu'" <Gambia-l@U.washington.edu>
Subject: RE: developm. of subsaharan africa:rejoinder2
Message-ID: <01BCA2B6.882C8D60@dico.qatar.net.qa>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ancha!
You are absolutely right! If mutual intelligibility exists between =
language A and B,we say A and B are dialects of C if C is the parent =
Language,or that A is the dialect of B if B is the parent of A or the =
other way round.
Okay, but linguists are not the most respected people around here ,and =
so are the RULES that they lay down for languages.In strict linguistic =
terms,the languages of Sweden ,Denmark and Norway are not really =
languages but mere DIALECTS of the same Proto-type Scandanavian =
language, for the simple reason that the Swede does not need a =
translator to communicate reasonably well with the Dane and nor does the =
Dane to comprehend the Norwegian.But because each of these three =
countries has developed its own writing(spelling) system that is unique =
to their particular dialect, which is similar in some ways and very =
different in some of its aspects to all the others,we tend to agree with =
them that,regardless of what the linguist says,theirs are languages and =
not dialects.
At the opposite end of this spectrum is the situation in China.Half of =
china speaks the Mandarin dialect of the Chinese Language, whereas the =
other half speaks the Cantonese one,but the problem is that sometimes a =
Cantonese who comes from a very far away province to Mandarin territory =
will find out that his dialect is so different from those of his hosts =
that he most of the time cannot understand what they are talking =
about.But this mutual unintelligibility notwithstanding,China insists =
that these two media are mere Dialects of the same language.And just =
like in Scandanavia,the writing system makes all the difference =
here,because whereas during conversation the mandarin and the cantonese =
may have problems understanding each other,in writing no such problem =
arises,for the simple reason that the whole of china has one unified =
writing system,almost exactly like the Arabs:North African Arabs =
sometimes have problems understanding the spoken language of the Gulf =
Arabs,but when the communication is written down so such difficulty =
arises!
Regards Basss=20
----------
From: Ancha Bala-Gaye u[SMTP:bala7500@mach1.wlu.ca]
Sent: 06 =D4=DA=C8=C7=E4, 1997 0:36
To: BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH
Subject: RE: developm. of subsaharan africa:rejoinder2
Hello Bass,
how are you doing?? I was just wondering if you could tell me what the=20
difference is between a language and a dialect ( hopefully I spelt it =
right).
I thought that a dialect was a derivative of a parent language hence=20
someone who spoke a dialect could still understand someone speaking a=20
different dialect of the same language or understand someone speaking =
the=20
parent language. Am I making sense?? I hope so. Cause if so, why are
portuguese and spanish different languages even though the two groups of =
people can understand each other??.
Ancha.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 15:40:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Malanding S. Jaiteh" <msjaiteh@mtu.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Cc: msjaiteh@mtu.edu (Malanding S. Jaiteh)
Subject: Re: GambiaNet: In response to Andrea's message
Message-ID: <199708061940.PAA04219@hemlock.ffr.mtu.edu>
Content-Type: text
Latir,
Please excuse me if I am spending too much time on this subject. While
it may seem to be diverting attention, I believe that an effective self-
sustaining organization cannot be created if those in it ignore the
basic principles of consultations and consensus.
I do not think there is any question on the need for an organization
like GambiaNet. However, I feel that the procedures seeing its
establishment could have been better.
When you say:
............................ The only task
> "the committee" took upon itself was to put a gambian based newspaper on
> the internet.
I would say wrong! The task to put a gambian-based news paper was
the mandate given to the committee by Gambia-L. That was what led to
the formation of the Committees in the first place. If it became
apparent to the committee members that such a venture cannot be
possible without first establishing a separate body then I feel that
such information should be given back to us or atleast to the 70 or so
members who expressed interest in receiving the paper.
>
> The two original committees, the technical and steering committees, were
> started privately by a few Gambia-L members who wanted to work on this
> project. They made continued appeals to the entire list for those
> interested in working on the project to join the committees, a policy
> that has never ceased and resulted in other members joining in their
> efforts.
If they continue to appeal for more members they should also let us
the potential benefactors know what else they need to do. Afterall not
everybody can be part of that committe.
> The committees later formed themselves into one team and once the team
> decided to transform itself into a non profit organisation the list was
> in fact informed.
>
> This organisation has not and will not replace Gambia-L. Gambia-L is a
> mailing list and GambiaNet will be a web based organisation. This
> being the case, the entire list will not gain automatic membership to
> GambiaNet.
Perhaps you can tell us some benefits of keeping GambiaNet and
Gambia-l separate.
I believe that keeping the two separate could have some
disadvantages. When memberiship of GambiaNet is limited to only those
who want to sign up for Observer then we stand to lose when it comes
to participating in other activities such as education or health. I
do agree when you say that to access the observer, you need to
contribute. However, not subscribing to observer should not prevent
others joining the Network afterall some may not have access to the
web but can acess the Email service.
>
...> historically low and sluggish. What we should have done was to perform
> a better job in keeping the list abreast on our actions. We have
> apologized for this in the past and we apologize here again.
That is all am trying to say perhaps in too many words.
...>
> It was suggested from someone, after we drafted the first version of the
> Bylaws, that at some point in the future we may be able to help/work
> with the education committee. Bearing this in mind we decided to amend
> the draft bylaws so that education related activities would also be a
> part of what we do.
>
> When I said "... we would like to make it clear that any activity in
> this area will be run entirely by the already established Gambia-L
> Education Committee", I referring to the fact that we decided that while
> we "will do everything to help facilitate its activities but only with
> the consent of the Committee".
>
> Simply put, since we are an internet based non profit organisation, we
> would limit ourselves on education matters to only where we can offer
> services that comes with the advantage our position offers the Education
> Committee.
This is where I have serious objections still. If the two committees
(education and Observer) or the Board of Directors are operating
within and for the entire Gambian Network then the decision on who to
work with and what to work for must be left to the general body.
I believe that decisions regarding the structure and functioning of
GambiaNet organization should be made by hte general membership.
The board should not at anytime be seen as dictating what is possible and
what is not. The borad deciding stating that "...we would limit
ourselves on hte education matters to only where we can offer services
.... " is a clear sign of that.
>
> Again, please feel free to ask whatever questions you have related to
> our activities and we would also appreciate receiving any comments you
> may have.
>
> I apologize for such a long message but we feel that since this is an
> important issue, important questions have been asked and concerns
> shared, time must be taken to carefully explain ourselves so that all is
> well understood.
Lat, I do not wish this to a battle for the high ground or some back
stabbing. I think you guys (I mean those who volunteered to set up
the committee) did a damn (oops) good job in setting up this body
which in necessary but you did an equally damn poor job in letting the
public (who embraced the idea right from conception) know what was
happening. As a fanatic of the democratic process, I believe that we do
not have any right to critize those back home for their undemocratic
behavior if we do not try to embrace the idea ourselves.
Perhaps you would be saved the so many lines you used to clarify your
actions if the matter had been put to the Group in the first place.
A final note on the issue. The board of Directors of GambiaNet must
review their position on keeping Gambia-L and GambiaNet separate. I do
not know the technical details regarding hosting the mailing list and
web site together so I do not know what is involved I believe the
decision is managerial. But do we have
all the time and all the space at Gambia-L's presently hosted? What
would it mean for us to be independent in the future.
Malanding Jaiteh
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 18:10:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ancha Bala-Gaye u <bala7500@mach1.wlu.ca>
To: binta@iuj.ac.jp
Cc: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: No Subject
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9708061706.A20289-0100000@mach1.wlu.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Thu, 7 Aug 1997 binta@iuj.ac.jp wrote:
> Fellows,
>
> I am puzzled by this flow of words from some members on what Torstein
> wrote about Gambians going home and taking their rightful place. Well,
> i cannot speak for him, but I think some of us are over-reacting,
> perhaps because he touched on our raw nerve--he simply spoke the
> unspoken. And let us not fool ourselves. None from without is going
> to clear our domestic mess for us. There can never be a conducive
> environment in the Gambia while the cream of its sons and daughters
> remain away in countries we keep on lambasting for our woes. Waiting
> for that day when home will be sweet home may then be elusive.
>
> I commend Torstein and co. for giving up what little they might have
> given up to set up their internet company in the Gambia! They may
> come to reap huge profits, but at least they took the entrepreneurial
> step that many a Gambian would fail to take.
>
> Let us be a bit more accommodating of views ( that may be very apt)
> which contradict our line of thinking or way of doing things.
>
> Lamin.
>
I totally agree with Lamin. And I hope I didn't offend you Mr Grotnes in
any way, I just wanted to point out somethings that I thought he
overlooked in his message. Lamin is absolutely right when he says that
we are the only ones that can clean up our country, no one ele should do
that for us, as I said, it is our country. I guess it's up to the
individual to decide if the sacrifices to be made will be worth it or too
much. Not only for us but also for the generations to come. No it wasn't
our mess but shouldn't we start the cleaning up process instead of
leaving it all for the geneartions to come????
I guess it is also like a feeling that one should have for ones country:
it is my country and it is where I belong, not here, where I'm not
wanted but where I will have to make myself feel at home in if I am going
to stay. patriotism it's called????
As I said, it is a feeling of belongingness etc and if you don't have it,
then you don't. But it would be nice if a lot of people had enough of it
to go back home and help clean up the mess. We all make mistakes and
messes and to
live together in a cleaner and happier environment, we have to help clean up
each others messes ( no it isn't our mess). the last part out of context?? I
hope not.
Ancha.
------------------------------
Date: 06 Aug 1997 22:26:49 GMT
From: momodou@inform-bbs.dk (Momodou Camara)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Fwd: AFRICA: Ruling Party/Opposition Gap Devides Women Too
Message-ID: <413003742.335408240@inform-bbs.dk>
Copyright 1997 InterPress Service, all rights reserved.
Worldwide distribution via the APC networks.
*** 31-Jul-97 ***
Title: AFRICA: Ruling Party/Opposition Gap Divides Women Too
By Lewis Machipisa
HARARE, Jul 31 (IPS) - The Eighth Congress of the Pan-African
Women Organisation (PAWO) ended Thursday with a call to increase
the number of women in peacekeeping missions and in decision-
making positions.
At the end of their Jul. 28-31 congress here, the women
stressed that they had the capacity to contribute meaningfully
both as peacemakers and as decision-makers, if given a chance.
PAWO was founded in 1962 in Tanzania. Its outgoing secretary-
general, Ruth Neto described it as ''a tool through which women of
the countries recognised by the Organisation of African Unity
(OAU) have fought for the independence of their countries''.
''... today these women pursue a goal to contribute in an
effective and responsible manner for the socio-economic, political
and cultural development of Africa,'' said Neto.
The participants in this week's congress noted that while most
countries were working hard to promote women through signing
international conventions, there was still an imbalance that
needed to be addressed.
In Senegal, for example, there are only three women among 33
cabinet ministers and all but 14 of the West African nation's 120
parliamentarians, according to Aminata Ndiaye, Senegal's Minister
of Women, Children and Family Affairs, who said such disparities
were common in Africa.
''We want to educate ourselves, to train ourselves, but we are
also looking forward to achieving our noble goals and to placing
our action within the general action of our people in order to
fight ignorance, injustice, and all kinds of discrimination,
aiming at a larger participation in the economical development,''
said Ndiaye.
Other women politicians who took part in the meeting also
pointed to the imbalances in the area of political decision-
making, including Zimbabwe's Thenjiwe Lesabe, one of 22 women in
her country's 150-member parliament.
While the fact that 14.6 percent of Zimbabwean parliamentarians
are women ''is an achievement, it still falls far short of being
proportional representation of women who constitute more than 50
percent of Zimbabwe's population,'' commented Lesabe, who is the
minister of national affairs, employment creation and
cooperatives.
''We will not tire until we get to a situation whereby women
are fairly represented in parliament,'' she said.
Paradoxically, the womens' call for inclusion in the political
mainstream in their countries and in efforts to achieve world
peace was accompanied by a charge that they had excluded some
women from their congress.
The complaint came from three Zimbabwean opposition politicians --
Trudy Stevenson of the Forum Party of Zimbabwe, Margaret Dongo, an
independent parliamentarian and Vesta Sithole of the Zanu-Ndonga
party.
They said in a statement Thursday that women from all sectors
in Zimbabwe, and not only those who belong to the ruling Zimbabwe
African National Union-Patriotic Front (Zanu-PF), should have been
invited to attend the meeting that attracted some 300 participants
from 15 African countries.
''We are seriously concerned by the absence of a democratic
platform at PAWO and the deliberate exclusion of women from the
opposition and those of opposing views to the ruling party,'' the
three said.
The congress took place at the headquarters of Zimbabwe's
ruling party and this, too, irked the opposition politicians.
''The fact that it's held in the Zanu-PF headquarters is an
indication of what it is really, the ruling party ladies getting
together,'' Stevenson told IPS.
Members of the Zanu-PF's Women's League added a dash of colour
to the meeting. Clad in dresses bearing the portrait of President
Robert Mugabe, they sang and danced in praise of their party and
the Zimbabwean head of state.
However, Oppah Rushesha, Zimbabwe's minister of state in charge
of gender issues, explained to IPS that Zanu-PF's Women's League
was the only Zimbabwean organisation affiliated to PAWO, although
she said that did not mean other women were not welcome.
''Invitations were sent out by the Ministry of National Affairs
to NGOs. It's not only Zanu-PF women who were invited and it's not
a fair comment to say they were excluded. Every woman was
invited,'' Rushesha told IPS.
Indeed an invitation was sent to ''women'' on Zimbabwe's state
radio but, according to Dongo, Stevenson and Sithole, it was
''directed at the ruling party women's league''.
''This seems to indicate that there are no women in the
opposition in Zimbabwe and belittles the role played by women in
the opposition,'' they charged.
If the women who attended this week's conference were mainly
from ruling parties, this may be because many African nations are
still grappling with the effects of single-party rule.
Recalling that ''most countries in the past only had one-party
systems but now some have 100 political parties or more,'' Neto
told IPS that this has resulted in ''women who have worked in one-
party systems getting support ahead of others (while) women
outside government are not supported.''
''But PAWO is for every woman regardless of the political party
one belongs. We want to see women get organised. About 20 percent
of women maybe aware of PAWO and we want to increase this
figure,'' said Neto, sister of late Angolan president Agostinho
Neto. (END/IPS/LM/KB/97)
Origin: Harare/AFRICA/
----
[c] 1997, InterPress Third World News Agency (IPS)
All rights reserved
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 20:22:43 -0000
From: "The Gambia-L shadow list" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: LA-LA-LA
Message-ID: <B0000003075@south.commit.gm>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
This is forwarded from "Torstein Grotnes" <tgr@commit.gm>
(tgr@commit.gm)
>Mr Grotness,
> if there
> was something we could do
> for him from this side of the world then we would give it our best shot.
> Do you want us to also tell him about our experiences of discrimination
in our own
> country esp during the tourist season when one cannot go to swim in hotel
> pools etc or do you want suggestions on how this type of behaviour can be
> terminated???
Both and any other topic that makes an impact in The Gambia, I guess.
> do you have any suggestions about how our voices can be heard
> down there from here. How can we get the President, the Education
> minister etc to listen to us and actually have a discussion with us. This
> way, we can tell him/her what our ideas are and hear why what we have to
> say can or cannot be implemented. hence we can go from there. What do you
> suggest??
Actually, the Presidents office has Internet connection I have heard, but I
do not have
their e-mail address. Maybe you can ask Mr.S.Sawo what their address is?!
We are trying to connect some government institutions to the e-mail, but
things do take
time in those areas.
Foroyaa is also publishing extracts from Gambia-L in their weekly paper,
George/Observer
is reading Gambia-L and will hopefully print interesting articles from the
Diaspora when our
mail setup is complete.
>I don't think that you should expect everyone to try and help the
> country the way you have. Some people feel that they are better off
> helping the country from abroad because they cannot go back to the type
> of life style The Gambia offers or because ...
>What can I say to Pa Musa except that I'm very
> proud of him???
At least you said it now, so that Pa gets mental support when he reads it?!
> Others have gone home and tried to share their knowledge without success.
> And the rest, very few it would seem, are on their way. And whether they
> will succeed or not remains to be seen.
Maybe it is easier to make it at home, if there was more people doing it?!
Starting a resource group could be a good idea, and what about some
Gambian "think tank"s based inside the country?!
> I guess another thing is that you had accomplished something from broad
> before you gave it all up for The Gambia.
True, and I have the security of always be able to "go home" if things
really gets troublesome(I'm not gonna do that!!)
>Maybe there are people who wish
> to accomplish the same thing before packing up and heading for home
finally.
>Ancha.
Yes that is the simple truth I believe, but it does not help The Gambia
today.(maybe tomorrow?!)
If you do not feel like going home, probably the right thing is to wait and
see!?!
Torstein
Commit
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 19:23:16 -0000
From: "The Gambia-L shadow list" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: LA-LA-LA
Message-ID: <B0000003073@south.commit.gm>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
This is forwarded from "Torstein Grotnes" <tgr@commit.gm>
(tgr@commit.gm)
----------
> From: abdoub@math.uio.no
> I take it that moving to the Gambia to establish a business wasn't done
> purely on humanitarian grounds.
True, we wanted to do something else, and our company is a commercial
company.
One reason for going to The Gambia was that we saw a general lack of the
standards of service that we enjoy in Norway.
Maybe I boosted my chest to much, time will show if our services has any
positive effect in the Gambia.
> Some thoughtful
> Africans, like the leaders in Uganda, have now realised what the
> philanthropic gestures from the developed world do entail - exploitation
> in the form of using Africa (and the rest of the developing world) as
> dumping grounds for unwanted products and (redundant) services (labour
> included). What Africa really needs is direct investments, which on a
> long-term basis would yield benefits for all involved parties.
I am not an expert in macro economics but I have a feeling that "direct
investments" not necessarily
is only of the good.
Jobs are good of course, foreign capital is important and more people with
jobs means
increased moneyflow.
But the foreign company only priority is to make money, and retrieve it to
its owners wallets.
I think a better investor is a person/company that actually combines a wish
to develop a community
together with creating something sustainable even if it means that his
surplus does not match that of a "direct investors".
A emphasis should also be put on supporting small size enterprises, but it
seems like everybody thinks only big investors/big institutions can make an
impact.
One example of this was when we approached the Norwegian Aid Institution
(NORAD) when we were trying to finance our company.
After submitting a application for a 0.5 Million Kr (~$67000) backup
investment loan, a month later we got a reply stating that NORAD only
supported investments starting from 5 Million Kr, and then only to well
established Norwegian based companies!
Luckily with good help of friends and relatives we were able to gather the
necessary money to start the company.
>One
> shouldn't at all mind people like you establishing something out there
> to make money and no excuses shouldn't be expected of you either.
As a commercial business, I agree.
(Of course the fact that it cost almost 20 times more to establish a
company because we are
"toubabs" is not a point here!?)
>The
> only hope I do have is that there are institutions out there that can
> make the whole venture also worthwhile for local people. If jobs are
> created and a conducive environment emerges so that others (locals say)
> can follow these entrepreneurs footsteps then I think everybody would be
> happy. The non-existence of such institutions always leads to what is
> now the legacy of the bad governments that took over after the Europeans
> departed.
Could you please clarify a little what you mean about institutions in this
sense.
If you mean NGO's I have been listening to several people claiming that
most NGO's tend
to start looking inwards as soon as they have been around some years ,
meaning that they
put priority on keeping themselves alive, and cutting down on their
projects.
>Africans are also very proud of the Diaspora and
>the bond is gonna get stronger.
I think it is great that so many Gambians are able to get the best type of
education
and thus creating a better life for themselves.
The only problem here is that The Gambia dearly need big chunks of this
brain power
in order not to stagnate even compared to the other WA countries.
> In Europe (or most of the developed word) the unskilled immigrant is
> doomed to menial jobs or lifelong unemployment
This is true as I have been witnessing this attitude from my own employers.
>a subtle way of
>an ethnic-prejudice telling this skilled person to "bugger off" (or "go
>back home, we don't want you here") is to always bombard him with the
>miseries that are wreaking havoc to his people and "reassurances" that
>he has the know-how that would really make a difference.
Come on, that is B.S.
We are talking about your country, and either you got the feelings for the
country to do something,
or your priorities are something else.
There is misery in every country, even in Norway.
>The consequences of an academic going back home, I believe, comprises of
two
> extremes;
>There is a half-way house between the two extremes,
> but it can only be settled in if one has the resources to, for instance,
> say no to corruption and at the same time be able to attract positive
> attention from the big powerful god-like figures.
I agree, corruption is the order of the day, and you are a very small
person if you
stand alone against the "big boys club".
We would not be where we are without good friends with integrity.
> Big positive changes are nowadays happening in the African mind, the
> African youth is no longer overwhelmed by all the influences from Europe
> like the previous generation.
> One small step..............and we are definitely gonna get to the
promised
> land.
Yes, there is progress in The Gambia, people are actively involved in
politics,
and hopefully Gambians abroad and friends of The Gambia will flow new
inspiration
and ideas to the Africa's Singapore to be.
Peace to Gambia-L,
Torstein
Commit
------------------------------
Date: 06 Aug 1997 22:29:18 GMT
From: momodou@inform-bbs.dk (Momodou Camara)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Fwd: DEVELOPMENT: Nigeria Tops Global Li
Message-ID: <624033758.335480364@inform-bbs.dk>
Copyright 1997 InterPress Service, all rights reserved.
Worldwide distribution via the APC networks.
*** 31-Jul-97 ***
Title: DEVELOPMENT: Nigeria Tops Global List Of The 'Perceived Corrupt'
By Ramesh Jaura
BONN, Jul 31 (IPS) - Nigeria tops a global list of nations --
including Bolivia, Colombia, Russia, Pakistan, Mexico, Indonesia
and India -- perceived as the world's most corrupt, according to a
new index published Thursday.
Devised and released by the Berlin-based campaign group
Transparency International (TI), the 1997 Corruption Perception
Index (CPI) could equally be used as a measure of lost development
opportunities, said the group's chairman Peter Eigen.
''Every day that goes without improving upon the poor scores in
the index, means more impoverishment, less education, less health
care,'' he said.
However the CPI did not focus on developing nations because
corruption was perceived to be the greatest there, he added.
''We are reporting how business people, political analysts and
the general public around the globe perceive levels of corruption
in different countries,'' said Eigen. ''Many of these business
people are a part of the problem.''
Eigen, a former World Bank official, said a large part of
corruption was ''the explicit product of multinational
corporations, headquartered in leading industrialised countries,
using massive bribery and kick-backs to buy contracts in the
developing world and the countries in transition''.
To redress the imbalance in how developing countries are
perceived, TI also plans to publish a survey on 'active
corruption' among the world's major exporting nations, primarily
from the developed world.
However, because of the lack of reliable data and funds, an
Active Corruption Index will not be available in the near future.
The ranking system of the CPI is so designed that countries that
are perceived to be the least corrupt are given the highest scores
out of ten. Denmark, Finland, Sweden, New Zealand, Canada and the
Netherlands hit the topmost scores, between nine and ten points,
with Norway, Australia, Singapore, Luxembourg, Switzerland,
Ireland, Germany and Great Britain scoring between 8.22 and 8.92.
They are followed by Israel (7.97), USA (7.61), Hong Kong (7.28),
Portugal (6.97), France (6.57), Costa Rica (6.45) and Chile
(6.05).
Spain, Greece, Belgium, Czech Republic, Hungary, Poland, Italy,
Taiwan and Malaysia follow on scale five of the index. South
Africa, South Korea and Uruguay are given scores in the range of
four.
Then comes Brazil (3.56), Romania (3.44), Turkey (3.21), Thailand
(3.06), Philippines (3.05), China (2.88), Argentina (2.81),
Vietnam (2.79) and Venezuela (2.77).
Though, by the index's principle, corruption is more rampant in
the countries lower down the scale, Eigen warned against making
quick judgments based on a country's rank in the Corruption
Perception Index, or in comparing the ranking from one year to the
next.
This, he said, was illustrated by the case of Israel, which had
slipped from 14th place in last year's index to 15th on the 1997
index, though it achieved a higher score out of ten than in 1996.
According to its ranking, it was less corrupt last year. But its
score would signify that it was more corrupt in 1996 than in 1997.
Malaysia illustrated the bunching problem because its actual 1997
score was virtually the same as in 1996, yet its ranking fell
sharply from 26 to 32.
''We urge analysts to look at the individual country scores out
of ten to understand how business perceives corruption in
individual countries,'' Eigen said.
The TI claims that its CPI -- developed by Johann Graf
Lambsdorff, an economist at the Goettingen University in Germany --
had had a salutary impact on national politics in many countries
and is increasingly shaping pubic opinion.
According to Lambsdorff, the index covers only 52 countries which
qualify for inclusion in the CPI, because a minimum of four
surveys was required and this condition was not fulfilled in case
of the rest 13 countries, which are members of the United Nations.
Eigen said Malaysia was a case worth emulating. Though the
government had initially called the index another example of
Western 'cultural imperialism', it had taken a serious effort to
understand the methodology of the index. A delegation of the
Malaysian Anti-Corruption Agency (ACA) was sent to TI headquarters
in Berlin.
The government then started an anti-corruption campaign,
continually pointing to the TI index in its public statements and
parliamentary debates as the reason why all Malaysians needed to
be mobilised to counter corruption.
Also TI-Malaysia was seen as an independent partner in an attempt
to enhance the country's integrity, said Eigen, who founded the
organisation in 1993. It now has more than 60 national chapters.
He hopes that more governments will start to react to the
perceived level of corruption in their countries.
(END/IPS/RAJ/RJ/97)
Origin: Amsterdam/DEVELOPMENT/
----
[c] 1997, InterPress Third World News Agency (IPS)
All rights reserved
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 01:54:17 +0200
From: "Momodou S Sidibeh" <momodou.sidibeh@stockholm.mail.telia.com>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: SV: LA-LA-LA
Message-ID: <199708062355.BAA03558@d1o2.telia.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Fellow "Netters",
I find it absolutely amazing what a spin-off "la-la" gave zest to. The good
news is that some of us will begin thinking of going back home. The bad
news is that some, for various reasons will not do so. However, Bass'
remark that "Gambia, indeed cannot go anywhere without us " needs
qualification. Firstly because Gambia is neither stationary nor
retrogressing. My belief is that things are moving forward, albeit very
slowly!!! So slow in fact that its absolute displacement is hardly
noticeable. Why this is the case, we may naturally differ in explaining;
and so consequently offer differing remedies for improvement.
Indeed, Torstein Grotnes statements are provocative, but I think,
positively so. After all such an assumption of POSITIONS will naturally
occur sooner or later in any forum for discourse. The appeal is simply that
"we have now talked enough, so why don't we do something?". This is infact
a natural question for any Scandinavian, where they are usually brought up
in a tradition of bureaucratised but effective pragmatism. We should all
recognise a similar trait from Asbjorn Nordam, who seems unable to
comprehend why simple dictats of ...planning, setting up priorities,
getting the money, getting the materials, getting the qualified personnel,
and doing the work, seem to fail grossly in most of Africa. [You could also
have noticed it in his frustration about the death of a Gambian brother in
a Danish jail. It was genuine, I think, but hopelessly misdirected for a
Dane to ask for opinions about what to do from the victims of police
bruatality, when all the answers he needed are in public court records,
police files, immigration policies, records of law firms, human rights
groups, the anti-immigrant lobby in the Danish folketinget (parliament),
and the archives of militant pro-immigrant organisations!]
At independence, most African governements, were hugely concerned with
keeping their inherited territories whole form the imminent threat of
incessant power struggles amongst so many national groupings. The security
concerns of the state needed to be balanced against the territorial
integrity of the newly independent countries. Fear of political rivals
(mainly imagined or real ethnic adversaries), and the need to maintain a
semblance of stability meant that the state assumed overwhelming power,
eventually becoming incredibly authoritarian: trampling on democratic
freedoms and humam rights enshrined in constitutions they were signatories
to, and controlling all vital economic activity. Some employed what became
known as ethnic arithmetic, distributing governemental authority on the
basis of ethnicity as a way of dousing discontent. The state bacame sole
manager in organising distribution, allocating resources, and determining
income. This was no socialism; and their is nothing scientific about it.
There were certainly other reasons why state control was deemed necessary
in almost all of post-independent Africa, such as bringing Africans into
economic activity they were denied for so long, and that only the state had
the organisational and technical capacity to run the economy.
The result was a concentration of economic power in the hands of
politicians who were almost exclusively non-bourgeois. Qualities, such as
thrift, hard work, punctuality, and rational capitalist planning were
nothing they eschewed. They threw the profit motive out the window, and so
by definition, appointments as heads of parastatals, SOEs (State-owned
enterprises), heads of departments, hospital board memberships, heads of
customs, and national airlines all became POLITICAL APPOINTMENTS. They were
given to the minister's ethnic brethren, his nephews, the relatives of
wives, and distant cousins. Not even appointments to universities were free
from this long arm of the state bureaucracy. [Ali Mazrui gave an account of
how a sister of his simply implored him to admit her son to a course for
which he was apparently unqualified]. The old feudal social order that
colonialism was to break simply resurfaced, more refined and sophisticated.
The players are only this time looking smarter, some flying in suits and
ties even on very warm Sundays. This was the new Africa taking its place in
the world : The rest is Pa Musa Jallow's story: oversized bureaucracies,
unqualified staff, workers without jobs to do idling by in empty
workshops, parastatals which fail flatly, income tax that is never
collected, passports that are sold to foreigners, and salaries paid to
shadows; batteries of experts whose projects always fail, bank loans dished
out to playboys without collaterals, stores and magazines whose contents
escape into thin air. (You must all remember the Gambia Commercial and Dev.
Bank, PWD, CooPs, GPA, RDP, Jaahali Paacharr Project, Civil Aviation,
etc.Etc.Here social relations are based not on production, but on loyalty
of another kind. This is feudalism in modern Africa.
(Well, I propose to end this much later today, so please bear with me for a
while?)
Momodou Sidibeh
Från: BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
Till: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Ämne: RE: LA-LA-LA
Datum: den 6 augusti 1997 15:56
Well,I can't tell you, Mr.Grotnes how absolutely right you are;Gambia
indeed,cannot go anywhere without us.But without going into unnecessary
details,I want to inform you that I am very seriously thinking about coming
back.
And again,what else should I say except:Keep up the good work down there!
Regards Bassss!
|
 |
|
|
Momodou
Denmark
11513 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2021 : 14:24:58
|
----------
From: The Gambia-L shadow list[SMTP:gambia-l@commit.gm]
Sent: 05 ÔÚÈÇä, 1997 22:31
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
Subject: LA-LA-LA
This is forwarded from "Torstein Grotnes" <tgr@commit.gm>
(tgr@commit.gm)
I am sitting here in Fajara and reading my Gambia-L mails and I am
wondering why a question about a word
(meaning someone singing in my language), gets seven-eight concerned
answers while
straight to the bone articles from Mr. Pa Musa Jallow with topics that will
decide the future for The Gambia is met with a big silence or uninterested
questions(exept a toubab or two)?!
Are there to many academic heads in this discussion group, knowing deep
down
that whatever they do, it will probably not be done in The Gambia?!
Why did/does not any of the many highly educated and Internet knowledgeble
Gambians abroad start what we
are doing in The Gambia, providing important information structure to
Gambians in The Gambia, or any other important
pioneering project like bringing a thousand 486 computers, and distributing
it to the different schools?!
Why not just do something, like we did?
How do you expect Gambia-L to have any meaning for The Gambia if what you
say should be done about The Gambia is not reaching the country? It's like
shouting in deep space!
About us we will probably be the poorest ISP in the whole world with a
customerbase of 500-1000 accounts( hopefully).
Why did we throw out our $150000 jobs in Norway, sold our nice houses/cars
to finance a small company in The Gambia?!?
Could it actually be that we saw something important in providing these
services in this country?
I have only been in the Gambia for seven months, but I will take my chance
to state that if there was any time to get Gambia
going up/forward or whatever direction is the right it should start NOW!
So how about seeing some implementation or ACTION as I would call it?
Just as I am finishing this mail, the power goes off (probably for some
hours at the best!).
If this had discouraged us, we would have been gone home a long time ago.
In stead we invest in a generator and UPS system.
How about some of you power-engineering people start coming down and
introducing some good ideas and standards.
I know the private sector would be happy about it!
Even more important would be to start changing the political
environment/system and maybe get rid of some of these civil servants Pa
Musa is talking about...
And please, Mr. Bassirou Dodou Drammeh, how can you say, "keep up the good
work DOWN THERE" when if anybody YOU should
be down here doing some good work?!?
Yours truly,
For The Gambia
Torstein Grotnes
Commit enterprises Ltd.
----------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 19:40:44 -0500 (EST)
From: Susan Renee Hayes <srhayes@indiana.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Cc: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: A Gambian National Language
Message-ID: <Pine.HPP.3.91.970806190144.25365A-100000@juliet.ucs.indiana.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
There have been many issues raised so far on the ideas of language in
Gambia and I still have many e-mails laft to read but hee is a
clarification or too of my ideas.
When I raised the question of Fula as a national language, it was in
addition to Mandinak and Wolof and was just a semi-joking question. As
for why I am interested in Fula, I lived with a Fula family and I could
only speak Mandinka. I wanted to speak with many of the women who were
mono-lingual (meaning they only spoke one language) and I truly loved the
sound of the language. My husband is also Fula although I met him after
I had been there a while.
I believe creating a separate language might be interesting but a waste
of time if the intent is to have people speak it. English is most
practical for communicating with the most people outside Gambia and
people cannot be forced to change their language... languages have lives
of their own.
Peace Corps is a US government-sponsored program which send volunteers
all over the world with the purpose of sharing information and/or
technology. Peace Corps volunteers are often people who have recently
graduated from college although there are more and more "older"
volunteers who have specialized skills in different areas. Countries
request volunteers in areas they deem desireable. I think in Gambia now
they are mostly science teachers in the secondary and high schools and
maybe nurses (also foresters). Peace Corps volunteers are encouraged to
get to know the languages of their host countries with the idea that they
can better do something. Peace Corps volunteers usually get more then
they give in terms of learning languages and cultures. Anyway, Peace
Corps has extensive materials to teach languages and cultures. But I
found a lot of literacy materials produced for Gambians which there.
These were written by government agencies (Gambian) and missionary NGO's.
Susan
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 22:24:20 -0000
From: "The Gambia-L shadow list" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: No Subject
Message-ID: <B0000003088@south.commit.gm>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
This is forwarded from "Torstein Grotnes" <tgr@commit.gm>
(tgr@commit.gm)
----------
>> From: Salifuj@AOL.COM
>> Abdou, you wrote:
>> Hi Torstein and co out there,
>>
>> I take it that moving to the Gambia to establish a business wasn't done
>> purely on humanitarian grounds......
> Abdou, my sentiments exactly.....they pretend they are doing us a favor
> whereas deep down beneath their masks, they are actually profiteering
from
> our ignorance.
>
> We can't blame though but I think what they should be boasting about is
not
> about leaving six figure salaries at home but adventuring to invest in a
> continent to benefit all the people of that continent. I have yet to see
that
> commitment, however. Most of them will go in, make their profits and go
out
> before you even know it. As you said, this is why we need long term long
term
> "direct investments".
>
> -Sal
Just a short comment in addition to my brother Jorn;
(About "boosting" se my reply to Abdou Bobb.)
On your other comments, the day that we break even in our company will be a
happy one.
Status as of 1.august is currently -(minus) 85000 Dalasis, and we hope! to
be reaching the magic
0 number by the middle of 1998. (in shalla- (Apol.for inncorr.spelling))
We do not have a mobile phone and a Mercedes like some new Gambian
"yuppies" seem to enjoy.
We run a used Mitsubishi van, and live in the same house as we work to keep
expenses down.
Regards,
Torstein
Commit
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 22:04:04 -0000
From: "The Gambia-L shadow list" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: No Subject
Message-ID: <B0000003087@south.commit.gm>
This is forwarded from "Jorn Grotnes" <jgr@commit.gm>
(jgr@commit.gm)
>Abdou, my sentiments exactly.....they pretend they are doing us a favor
>whereas deep down beneath their masks, they are actually profiteering from
>our ignorance.
:-) not profiteering a lot yet, anyway...although ignorance is rife here, not least
because most non-ignorant Gambians prefer to stay away...? But it must be
a comforting thought, that all business is bad business because it is all
about making money. A common thought too, here.
Deep down, beneath my mask, I have fun here, something I would not have had
to the same extent in my Norwegian job. On the other hand, the feeling of doing
something genuinely useful for a country I tend to like does enter into it.
It is no problem to find people, Toubabs especially, who profits from the state
this area of the world is in. But I believe we are pretty unique in that we have
moved here (instead of working as consultants at exorbitant salaries) and
that we are starting small with the goal of make something with staying power.
I do not believe in big projects, I think they have proven their inadequacy time
and time again. It is like planting huge trees, and not seeing why they die
shortly after the experts have left them there to fend for themselves. We try to
plant a small tree (indeed a seed (couldn't resist)) and help it to grow by
committing ourself (we did not leave cars, houses or other belongings behind -
the company shares is now our entire fortune)
If this is not a long term direct investment I don't know what is. To bring in
huge amounts of money and just spread it 'round will in my opinion be as
useful as pouring water directly on the Gambian sand. I.e. it will quickly
evaporate and drain away, without lasting improvement.
>continent to benefit all the people of that continent. I have yet to see that
Of course we'd not do it if we didn't want it, and I don't think my brother wanted
to emphasis our "kindness" or "non-selfishness". I do think his mail was a
very good "wake-up" call for the list...
Why always talking about the continent? I never tried to benefit the African
continent, it slightly on the large size for me. Anyway, we hope to prove
our commitment, not to you but to our customers. The Internet is not
going away, so you'll be able to connect to www.commit.gm from time
to time. Of course it is to early to tell if this "tree" will live, but if it does
not it will not be because we cut it for profit.
By the way, in addition to fighting for economic justice (and equal respect
for skills) what about some intellectuals fighting on the barricades in
The Gambia for the new-born democracy? (I am choosing to regard the
Jawara period as a autocracy - I always thought that when a man has his
face on the money he should be considered the King). The latest
developments here has not been encouraging, the lower ranks of the
military is obviously not happy to leave the police, courts and government
to their job. Is this not a reason for concern? How about not being _able_
to return to the Gambia some time in the future?
Just my 5 cents (more like $5 maybe) worth
Joern
Commit
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 23:04:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ancha Bala-Gaye u <bala7500@mach1.wlu.ca>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Cc: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: LA-LA-LA
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9708062233.A17220-0100000@mach1.wlu.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Wed, 6 Aug 1997, The Gambia-L shadow list wrote:
> This is forwarded from "Torstein Grotnes" <tgr@commit.gm>
> (tgr@commit.gm)
>
>
> Actually, the Presidents office has Internet connection I have heard, but I
> do not have
> their e-mail address. Maybe you can ask Mr.S.Sawo what their address is?!
> We are trying to connect some government institutions to the e-mail, but
> things do take
> time in those areas.
> Foroyaa is also publishing extracts from Gambia-L in their weekly paper,
> George/Observer
> is reading Gambia-L and will hopefully print interesting articles from the
> Diaspora when our
> mail setup is complete.
this I did not know and it will be awesome (as the Canadians say
instead of great) if some of the ideas on this list could be read at home.
> > Others have gone home and tried to share their knowledge without success.
> > And the rest, very few it would seem, are on their way. And whether they
> > will succeed or not remains to be seen.
>
> Maybe it is easier to make it at home, if there was more people doing it?!
This is true. I guess what's left is to try and convince people
that change will occur if many of us go home.
And by the way, if your company is helping the country, then I'ld like to
say thank you and as Bass always says : keep up the good work down there!!
Ancha.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 12:10:13 +0900 (JST)
From: binta@iuj.ac.jp
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: SV: LA-LA-LA
Message-ID: <199708070302.MAA04720@mlsv.iuj.ac.jp>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Mr. Sidibeh,
Although I sometimes disagree with your idea of African feudalism, I
have nothing for you this time but praise. As our common saying goes,
'keep up the good work down there' (laugh).
Lamin.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 23:23:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: Abdourahman Touray <abdou@cs.columbia.edu>
To: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: GambiaNet: In response to Andrea's message
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.970806230703.24167A-100000@rum.cs.columbia.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Hi folks,
I am replying to Malanding's posting as a Co-Manager of Gambia-l
and do not wish to represent the GambiaNet board in any way (even though I
am a member).
There are two reasons for the separation of Gambia-l and GambiaNet:
Firstly, Gambia-l is, thanks to Tony Loum, being run from a server
owned by the University of Washington. So we cannot, for example,
legally charge for membership to Gambia-l. It would also be inappropriate
to use the list for anything but for mailing list purposes. As it is, we
nearing the point of outgrowing the server as our archive is close to 8
gigabytes of correpondence (-: .
The second reason for the separation is technical. The list
server cannot be configured to perform any sophisticated operations and
retrieving data is cumbersome and taxing. With a web server, we can
increase our audience and offer more advanced services.
-Abdou.
Malanding Jaiteh wrote so: "
A final note on the issue. The board of Directors of GambiaNet must
review their position on keeping Gambia-L and GambiaNet separate. I do
not know the technical details regarding hosting the mailing list and
web site together so I do not know what is involved I believe the
decision is managerial. But do we have
all the time and all the space at Gambia-L's presently hosted? What
would it mean for us to be independent in the future. "
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 03:00:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: Salifuj@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Gambians NOT going back home
Message-ID: <970807030044_1116463674@emout20.mail.aol.com>
Lamin Drammeh wrote:
> Fellows,
>
> I am puzzled by this flow of words from some members on what Torstein
> wrote about Gambians going home and taking their rightful place. Well,
> i cannot speak for him, but I think some of us are over-reacting,
> perhaps because he touched on our raw nerve--he simply spoke the
> unspoken. And let us not fool ourselves. None from without is going
> to clear our domestic mess for us. There can never be a conducive
> environment in the Gambia while the cream of its sons and daughters
> remain away in countries we keep on lambasting for our woes. Waiting
> for that day when home will be sweet home may then be elusive.
Maybe so...but here we go again....now we have to hear it from the one
whose delusive friends are the "push-button" of his ideas. You do have a
right to your opinions though.
As was mentioned before by some normal people, we must not impose on
people what we don't understand. If we want to go home and help rebuild
our country, we will be more than blessed to do so. But to explicitly
bother people is an ummeasurable burden that we cannot commpletely
comprehend without resolving to immediate repercussions.
To begin with, I would tell you boldly, that I am a businessman who has
done every type of business in the Gambia. From the streets of Banjul to
the "Loumos" in the villages of Kiang and Fulladu in the rural areas, I
have traveled a long way to build a foundation of my stance in the area of
business in the Gambia. Nobody wants to do business in Gambia more than
me, but I have been there and seen the results of a government that has
become too greedy. My associates were arrested and jailed for importing
comodities that the government also imported. Now you tell why any
government would venture into a business adventure.
Let's understand that many of us on this List are older people who want
nothing more than an economically respectable Gambia but we are also out
on a mission to accomplish specific goals. Just as the hustler in Japan is
trying to make a living, the student in Alaska is getting an education for
a better tomorrow. These two people have the same ultimate goals in that
they are seeking to fufill the same life style, but they may have to take
seperate routes to reach the same destination.
In short, all I am saying is *STOP IMPOSING ON PEOPLE* about going home.
If you want to go home, no one is stopping you. If you want to set up a
damn business, the country is all yours! No one forced you to leave your
country in the first place and therefore you shouldn't be forced to go
back either. I can assure you that when the time comes, you will not be
the last to know.
Those who constantly bring up the topic of going back home to rebuild the
country seem to *NOT* understand the real reasons why most people do not
think it is the right time yet. Consider for example, a 21 year old boy
who left his country almost 10 years ago in search of wealth or education.
This kid had to adjust to unweary conditions of leaving the only family he
knows behind. In due process, he becomes a part of another culture that
differs vigorously from his own. Every day he wishes that he were closer
to his mum and dad and family of 10 to 20 people. But he knows that his
family desperately depends on him for financial support.
In most cases he is tied up doing odd jobs at differnt lenghts just to
make a living. While in the Gambia, he couldn't even cater for his own
draws. Now, then comes the time when he is getting paid despite what he
does. He is nothing but a lonely and overworked hustler who understands
the meaning of survival at its worst. Every day he reminds himself that
the greatest place on this earth, his family home, is where he will
eventually end up but he realizes that he cannot go back empty handed.
Now then *IMPOSERS*, how could undermine the essence of family ties by
thinking that this kid does not want to go home? Of course he has not lost
what reality is all about. Over and over again, he reminds himself that he
is on a mission unaccomplished. As I travel to different states especially
in the US, I come accross this kid. Sometimes he is a very intelligent
person who has succesfully completed a degree or two. As I talk to him, I
begin to understand the nature of uncertainty. For the unfortunate kid who
failed to indulge in higher learning, he has reponsiblity up to his neck.
In most cases he has a wife or two at home and still has the nerve to have
to think about women, despite working two or more non-technical jobs just
to make an honest living.
Now let me see you stand up and guarantee this kid that his family will
not hunt for food residue from his neighbours if he goes back. Let me see
what kind of job you are going to offer this kid so as to be able to live
a corrupt-free life. Better yet, show him how he can get a guranteed bank
loan to start his own business from a bank whose interest rates are as
high as Mt. Kilimajaro. If you can do this, then I assure you, the
doctors, professors, engineers and skilled Gambian workers abroad will
have something to think about for their homeland.
Peace,
-Sal
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 09:13:07 +0200
From: Badara Joof <Joof@winhlp.no>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: RE: Gambians NOT going back home
Message-ID: <10ABECE967B3D01185FC0060B051425908B4DE@obelix.winhlp.no>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
I really believe in what you stated. Anyone who wants to go back can
just do so without bordering others.
No one sent us abroad, so it should be up to each and everyone to go
back when ever he or she wants.
I do not understand why this should be a big topic or issue even.
Regards Ras...
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Salifuj@aol.com [SMTP:Salifuj@aol.com]
> Sent: 7. august 1997 09:01
> To: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
> Subject: Re: Gambians NOT going back home
>
> Lamin Drammeh wrote:
>
> > Fellows,
> >
> > I am puzzled by this flow of words from some members on what
> Torstein
> > wrote about Gambians going home and taking their rightful place.
> Well,
> > i cannot speak for him, but I think some of us are over-reacting,
> > perhaps because he touched on our raw nerve--he simply spoke the
> > unspoken. And let us not fool ourselves. None from without is
> going
> > to clear our domestic mess for us. There can never be a conducive
> > environment in the Gambia while the cream of its sons and daughters
> > remain away in countries we keep on lambasting for our woes.
> Waiting
> > for that day when home will be sweet home may then be elusive.
>
> Maybe so...but here we go again....now we have to hear it from the one
> whose delusive friends are the "push-button" of his ideas. You do have
> a
> right to your opinions though.
>
> As was mentioned before by some normal people, we must not impose on
> people what we don't understand. If we want to go home and help
> rebuild
> our country, we will be more than blessed to do so. But to explicitly
> bother people is an ummeasurable burden that we cannot commpletely
> comprehend without resolving to immediate repercussions.
>
> To begin with, I would tell you boldly, that I am a businessman who
> has
> done every type of business in the Gambia. From the streets of Banjul
> to
> the "Loumos" in the villages of Kiang and Fulladu in the rural areas,
> I
> have traveled a long way to build a foundation of my stance in the
> area of
> business in the Gambia. Nobody wants to do business in Gambia more
> than
> me, but I have been there and seen the results of a government that
> has
> become too greedy. My associates were arrested and jailed for
> importing
> comodities that the government also imported. Now you tell why any
> government would venture into a business adventure.
>
> Let's understand that many of us on this List are older people who
> want
> nothing more than an economically respectable Gambia but we are also
> out
> on a mission to accomplish specific goals. Just as the hustler in
> Japan is
> trying to make a living, the student in Alaska is getting an education
> for
> a better tomorrow. These two people have the same ultimate goals in
> that
> they are seeking to fufill the same life style, but they may have to
> take
> seperate routes to reach the same destination.
>
> In short, all I am saying is *STOP IMPOSING ON PEOPLE* about going
> home.
> If you want to go home, no one is stopping you. If you want to set up
> a
> damn business, the country is all yours! No one forced you to leave
> your
> country in the first place and therefore you shouldn't be forced to go
> back either. I can assure you that when the time comes, you will not
> be
> the last to know.
>
> Those who constantly bring up the topic of going back home to rebuild
> the
> country seem to *NOT* understand the real reasons why most people do
> not
> think it is the right time yet. Consider for example, a 21 year old
> boy
> who left his country almost 10 years ago in search of wealth or
> education.
> This kid had to adjust to unweary conditions of leaving the only
> family he
> knows behind. In due process, he becomes a part of another culture
> that
> differs vigorously from his own. Every day he wishes that he were
> closer
> to his mum and dad and family of 10 to 20 people. But he knows that
> his
> family desperately depends on him for financial support.
>
> In most cases he is tied up doing odd jobs at differnt lenghts just to
> make a living. While in the Gambia, he couldn't even cater for his own
> draws. Now, then comes the time when he is getting paid despite what
> he
> does. He is nothing but a lonely and overworked hustler who
> understands
> the meaning of survival at its worst. Every day he reminds himself
> that
> the greatest place on this earth, his family home, is where he will
> eventually end up but he realizes that he cannot go back empty handed.
>
>
> Now then *IMPOSERS*, how could undermine the essence of family ties by
> thinking that this kid does not want to go home? Of course he has not
> lost
> what reality is all about. Over and over again, he reminds himself
> that he
> is on a mission unaccomplished. As I travel to different states
> especially
> in the US, I come accross this kid. Sometimes he is a very intelligent
> person who has succesfully completed a degree or two. As I talk to
> him, I
> begin to understand the nature of uncertainty. For the unfortunate kid
> who
> failed to indulge in higher learning, he has reponsiblity up to his
> neck.
> In most cases he has a wife or two at home and still has the nerve to
> have
> to think about women, despite working two or more non-technical jobs
> just
> to make an honest living.
>
> Now let me see you stand up and guarantee this kid that his family
> will
> not hunt for food residue from his neighbours if he goes back. Let me
> see
> what kind of job you are going to offer this kid so as to be able to
> live
> a corrupt-free life. Better yet, show him how he can get a guranteed
> bank
> loan to start his own business from a bank whose interest rates are as
> high as Mt. Kilimajaro. If you can do this, then I assure you, the
> doctors, professors, engineers and skilled Gambian workers abroad will
> have something to think about for their homeland.
>
> Peace,
> -Sal
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 10:52:25 +0200
From: momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: A Gambian National Language
Message-ID: <19970807095420.AAB51734@LOCALNAME>
Gambia-l,
I would like to recommend " BLACK AFRICA: The Economic and
Cultural Basis for a Federated State." By Cheikh Anta Diop, to any
one interested in how linguistic unification is possible.
I sent a personal message to Mr. Baldeh asking him if he thinks that
the great Cheikh Anta Diop thought like a European and I am
still waiting for his answer.
On 1 Aug 97 at 15:02, O BALDEH wrote:
> MOMODOU you are in Europe but you are not a
>EUROPEAN. So when you are asked about our national language you
>should go back to the african context and answer the question do not
>answer it while thinking in the european way!
Mr. Baldeh, Cheikh Anta Diop even went further to demonstrate that
...."in due time it will be possible appropriately to choose one of
the major African tongues and promote it to the level of sole
governmental and cultural language for the entire continent..."
He further mentions ".. The choice of such a language will have to be
made by a competent interterritorial commission imbued with deep
patriotic feeling foreswearing any hidden chauvinism.."
He also talked about the choice of Language on a Local scale in the
Framework of a given Territory.
As I said before, I am not a linguist but one who is curios.
I don't agree with those who argue that we in Gambia have English as
the official language and should stick to that because it is spoken
world wide. Do we need to communicate here in English if we had one
of our "national languages" as the Gambian National language?
Susan, thanks for explaining to Mr. Baldeh the meaning of "Peace
corps".
Momodou Camara
*******************************************************
http://home3.inet.tele.dk/mcamara
**"Start by doing what's necessary, then what's
possible and suddenly you are doing the impossible"***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 18:13:30 +0900 (JST)
From: binta@iuj.ac.jp
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Gambians NOT going back home
Message-ID: <199708070907.SAA08760@mlsv.iuj.ac.jp>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Salifu,
Thanks for your 'efforts'.
Lamin.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 05:55:52 -0400
From: Latir Downes-Thomas <latir@earthlink.net>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: A Gambian National Language
Message-ID: <33E99BA8.BFCD7FD7@earthlink.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Camara, Momodou wrote:
> Mr. Baldeh, Cheikh Anta Diop even went further to demonstrate that
> ..."in due time it will be possible appropriately to choose one of
> the major African tongues and promote it to the level of sole
> governmental and cultural language for the entire continent..."
>
> He further mentions ".. The choice of such a language will have to be
> made by a competent interterritorial commission imbued with deep
> patriotic feeling foreswearing any hidden chauvinism.."
>
> He also talked about the choice of Language on a Local scale in the
> Framework of a given Territory.
Momodou, I agree that Diop was an authority in Africans, that is African
history, culture, society, etc., but he was not THE authority.
While I believe his vision was appropriate and ideal, I don't think it
has been or will be feasible in the foreseeable future for reasons that
have already been mentioned by others here.
> I don't agree with those who argue that we in Gambia have English as
> the official language and should stick to that because it is spoken
> world wide. Do we need to communicate here in English if we had one
> of our "national languages" as the Gambian National language?
As the one who suggested this I think it would be appropriate for me to
respond here. My argument was not that English is spoken world wide
therefore it should be the Gambian language. The logic I was trying to
express towards English is that based on our current situation, English
is most feasible as a national language or as the singe most widely
spoken language. In addition, such a move could have other positive
effects.
On a similar note, you also touch on something that helps on a point I
only slightly eluded to previously. One of the positive effects of
building English as the national language, spoken by all and not just an
official language, is that it would have the most unifying effect.
Even if any of the non-English national languages were written ones
that could be learned and read without knowledge of a western language,
should one of them be used in this forum I'm sure that there are many
that would not be capable of participating in these discussions. I'm
also sure that there would be those, multilingual, who would
deliberately boycott this forum simply because one national language was
being used instead of another.
I would like to caution though that I would not advocate having English
outright replace any language because the negative consequences of such
a replacement would definitely have a detrimental effect on our
cultures.
All the same, as I said earlier, the idea of building a national
language, probably not creating one, is good and I believe it will be
necessary in the capacity and nation building process of our country.
Peace.
Latir Gheran
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 06:24:04 -0400
From: Latir Downes-Thomas <latir@earthlink.net>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Gambians NOT going back home
Message-ID: <33E9A244.3DAD51A@earthlink.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Badara Joof wrote:
>
> I really believe in what you stated. Anyone who wants to go back can
> just do so without bordering others.
> No one sent us abroad, so it should be up to each and everyone to go
> back when ever he or she wants.
> I do not understand why this should be a big topic or issue even.
I don't think anyone is forcing, or for that matter CAN force anyone to
go back home.
The originator of this message, this "push" to return home, seemed to be
focusing his remarks on those who have been addressing, complaining and
debating the problems that exist in The Gambia. As I saw it, he was
basically saying that those abroad who are complaining about the
situation should return and do something about it or not say anything
about it at all. A sort of "put up or shut up", if you will. While his
approach and language was slightly aggressive, especially for a
foreigner ( I think he understands this ;-), I think it was intentional
and, as can be seen from the response, quite effective.
There are those who do not complain about the situation back home, (or)
may not even really care, and are quite comfortable or content abroad.
These individuals did not seem to be the target the of his words.
I believe this is a worthy debate (when it stays above the personal and
attack level). From what I see, there are those who concur the
originator's (Mr, Torsten's, I believe) message but the many who are
opposed to it have made some solid refuting arguments by citing how
difficult repatriation can be. This is a positive discussion because
now we can start debating, after reaching some sort of consensus on
these "difficulties", what needs to change and, more importantly, how
these changes can occur.
What do you say?
Latir Gheran
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 06:28:02 -0400
From: Latir Downes-Thomas <latir@earthlink.net>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: A Gambian National Language
Message-ID: <33E9A332.DCCA6764@earthlink.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Latir Downes-Thomas wrote:
> only slightly eluded to previously. One of the positive effects of
^
should be "alluded"
- Latir Gheran
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 02:16:27 +0100
From: "The Gambia-L shadow list" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
To: "gambia-l" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: No Subject
Message-ID: <B0000003103@south.commit.gm>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
This is forwarded from "Pa Musa Jallow" <pmj@commit.gm>
(pmj@commit.gm)
Lamin & fellows,
i started this discourse because it is pertinent and for once i wanted to
bring a real human dimension..i am glad someone other than I made this
point..i hate to be patronizing and i do not suffer any leader complex but
let us stick to the issues..I am advocating more opening..access and
opportunity..choice for our people ..nobody has ever denied our
potential..we need to access this potential..and anyone that can assist is
welcome..including the hard earned dollars, pounds, kronas. guilders
etc..of our folks abroad or the sojourners in our midst..
thanks for a great contribution.
In the 3 years since I came home from the U.S. thanks to Torstein & co..I
can communicate with all of you..at D200 a month flat..($20) i have this
facility..I would have paid D500 to be in touch with the world..and on this
revolution
so I am particularly grateful that they chose to invest here..
I still contend if we are availed the choice we can do the rest
>
pmj
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 22:06:05 +0100
From: "The Gambia-L shadow list" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
To: "gambia-l" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: PMJALLOW:DEV. OF SUBSAHARAN AFRICA
Message-ID: <B0000003091@south.commit.gm>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
This is forwarded from "Pa Musa Jallow" <pmj@commit.gm>
(pmj@commit.gm)
Folks,
Bass, Ancha,Absjorn, Andrea, Lamin, Tors, Nenneh & Everyone,
I want to express my appreciation for your kind support. I came home 3
years ago and it has been very educating..I do not think that we all have
to come home..but we all have to be concerned..and that has been amply
demonstrated..what I am going through is not UNIQUE..I appreciate that any
or all change has a price tag..
Tors..knows how it feels when a CIVIL SERVANT slams the door in your
face..for no other reason but the INTOXICATING power..this is what has to
change..POWER goes with RESPONSIBILITY..Like ANCHA said..I hope and believe
that when our A-TEAM generation finally takes over..this will CHANGE..I
suspect so but I also know that then there will be different CHALLENGES..I
believe in the power of the INDIVIDUAL to change things..if enough PEOPLE
say NO..there will be changes..but UTMOST let us agree to disagree..may the
best IDEA win the day..we all benefit when the Best or should I say BETTER
IDEA prevails..
Thanks for all the MORAL SUPPORT..Keep up the GOOD work UP there..it is two
sides of a COIN..the day the AFRICAN or the BLACK MAN or WOMAN..GETS THE
RESPECT HE or SHE deserves as a HUMAN is the DAY that HUMANKIND will have
transcended to a SUPERIOR LEVEL..in a funny way i believe we are the
CONSCIENCE of HUMANITY by our HISTORY..but OUR STORY is NOT LIMITED TO
US..we are an INTEGRAL PART of HUMANKIND and we can never divorce
ourselves..
I do not blame the SYSTEM..it is erected and sustained by Humans and can
and will be changed by us..
Let us all resolve to continue the FIGHT in all our own ways..it is our
world..EVERY SINGLE LIFE THAT IS IMPROVED OR IMPROVES IS ONE LESS WE HAVE
TO
WORRY ABOUT BETTERING. ..THIS INCLUDES OUR OWN LIVES..it is the journey of
a thousand MILES and the one
and every SINGLE STEP..is equally important
Thanks everyone again & peace
Pmj
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 12:37:04 +0200
From: Badara Joof <Joof@winhlp.no>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: RE: Gambians NOT going back home
Message-ID: <10ABECE967B3D01185FC0060B051425908B4F0@obelix.winhlp.no>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Does it mean that man cannot complain or debate the problems that exist
in The Gambia without being there (going back).
No, I do not think so, even that we live abroad, Gambia is still in our
hearts and will stay there the whole time.
People love their country in this case The Gambia, that's the reason
why they are very concerned.
Not only Gambians at home contribute to the development of country.
Think of Gambians abroad how helpful they are to their families.
Of course it is a worthy debate, but no one should be forced to return
back home.
Ras..
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Latir Downes-Thomas [SMTP:latir@earthlink.net]
> Sent: 7. august 1997 12:24
> To: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
> Subject: Re: Gambians NOT going back home
>
> Badara Joof wrote:
> >
> > I really believe in what you stated. Anyone who wants to go back can
> > just do so without bordering others.
> > No one sent us abroad, so it should be up to each and everyone to go
> > back when ever he or she wants.
> > I do not understand why this should be a big topic or issue even.
>
> I don't think anyone is forcing, or for that matter CAN force anyone
> to
> go back home.
>
> The originator of this message, this "push" to return home, seemed to
> be
> focusing his remarks on those who have been addressing, complaining
> and
> debating the problems that exist in The Gambia. As I saw it, he was
> basically saying that those abroad who are complaining about the
> situation should return and do something about it or not say anything
> about it at all. A sort of "put up or shut up", if you will. While
> his
> approach and language was slightly aggressive, especially for a
> foreigner ( I think he understands this ;-), I think it was
> intentional
> and, as can be seen from the response, quite effective.
>
> There are those who do not complain about the situation back home,
> (or)
> may not even really care, and are quite comfortable or content abroad.
>
> These individuals did not seem to be the target the of his words.
>
> I believe this is a worthy debate (when it stays above the personal
> and
> attack level). From what I see, there are those who concur the
> originator's (Mr, Torsten's, I believe) message but the many who are
> opposed to it have made some solid refuting arguments by citing how
> difficult repatriation can be. This is a positive discussion because
> now we can start debating, after reaching some sort of consensus on
> these "difficulties", what needs to change and, more importantly, how
> these changes can occur.
>
> What do you say?
>
> Latir Gheran
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 13:08:51 +0200
From: momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: A Gambian National Language
Message-ID: <19970807121048.AAB61300@LOCALNAME>
On 7 Aug 97 at 5:55, Latir Downes-Thomas wrote:
>
> > I don't agree with those who argue that we in Gambia have English as
> > the official language and should stick to that because it is spoken
> > world wide. Do we need to communicate here in English if we had one
> > of our "national languages" as the Gambian National language?
>
> As the one who suggested this I think it would be appropriate for me
> to respond here. My argument was not that English is spoken world
> wide therefore it should be the Gambian language. The logic I was
> trying to express towards English is that based on our current
> situation, English is most feasible as a national language or as the
> singe most widely spoken language. In addition, such a move could
> have other positive effects.
>
> On a similar note, you also touch on something that helps on a point
> I only slightly eluded to previously. One of the positive effects
> of building English as the national language, spoken by all and not
> just an official language, is that it would have the most unifying
> effect.
>
> Even if any of the non-English national languages were written ones
> that could be learned and read without knowledge of a western
> language, should one of them be used in this forum I'm sure that
> there are many that would not be capable of participating in these
> discussions. I'm also sure that there would be those, multilingual,
> who would deliberately boycott this forum simply because one
> national language was being used instead of another.
Lat, I am not saying that we should change the language of
communication in this forum. I think am too old to start learning a
new artificial language. I was just assuming that we
could as well have been communicating in a Gambian National Language
which is not English if we had one. I know quite well that that is
not possible with us but perhaps our grand children in .....years
time! There is a mailing list (Swahili-L) some where in cyberspace,
where the language of communication is Swahili.
>
> I would like to caution though that I would not advocate having
> English outright replace any language because the negative
> consequences of such a replacement would definitely have a
> detrimental effect on our cultures.
>
> All the same, as I said earlier, the idea of building a national
> language, probably not creating one, is good and I believe it will
> be necessary in the capacity and nation building process of our
> country.
>
I agree!
I have already been convinced that creating an artificial language
would be a waste of time.
Momodou Camara
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 09:27:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: Isatou Secka <isatou@Glue.umd.edu>
To: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Encourage Young Gambian Businesses
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.95q.970807091014.519B-100000@hera.isr.umd.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> On your other comments, the day that we break even in our company will be a
> happy one.
> Status as of 1.august is currently -(minus) 85000 Dalasis, and we hope! to
> be reaching the magic
> 0 number by the middle of 1998. (in shalla- (Apol.for inncorr.spelling))
> We do not have a mobile phone and a Mercedes like some new Gambian
> "yuppies" seem to enjoy.
> We run a used Mitsubishi van, and live in the same house as we work to keep
> expenses down.
>
> Regards,
> Torstein
> Commit
>
Torstein,
What exactly do you mean by your statement "some new Gambian yuppies"? I
may be overeacting but I personally find this statement to be deragatory.
I also think you seem to be contradicting yourself. Here you go,
'name-calling' young Gambian Entreprenaurs who decided to go and work
hard, legitimately for their country. Isn't this what a lot of people in
this list are propaganding? Instead of looking at the material gains they
have, why not focus on their initiative and input. Attitudes like this
are the reason many Gambians decide to take their business elsewhere
because once they start reaping the benefits of their investment, a lot of
people start raising eyebrows about how 'large they are living.' I don't
think you're unique because most Gambians think the same way. When
foreigners with businesses acquire a mobile phone and a mercedes, no one
questions it, but no, Gambians (especially young ones) are just not
supposed to act that way even if they work damn hard for it!
Please stop the name calling on hard working Gambians who are just trying
to earn the same respect that their foreign counterparts have in their own
country.
Isatou
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 9:27:20 -0500
From: hghanim@nusacc.org
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Cc: Camara@cardiff.ac.uk
Subject: unity for the good of Gambia
Message-ID: <QQdboo08393.199708071332@relay7.UU.NET>
Peace unto you all
Brothers and sisters,
Let's keep up the good communication we have started and avoid any
distractions that are coming.
I have noticed some discussions about the difference between Gambia -net
and Gambia-L .The name does not matter . What matters is that there is a
healthy exchange of ideas and constructive criticisms . Lets have a
descent debate without insulting each other . We must learn to respect
other people's opinions and achievements without being too critical or
negative.
There is always room for improvement but if there are too many chiefs and
no Indians , the result will be obvious.-Defeat and loss of power to the
opposite side.
By the way
Is the name Torstien a Jewish name?
Let's smell the coffee and wake up
Peace
hg
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 9:59:26 -0500
From: hghanim@nusacc.org
To: isatou@Glue.umd.edu, gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: RE: Encourage Young Gambian Businesses
Message-ID: <TFSHXHJI@nusacc.org>
Can TORSTEIN tell us who he really is??
Let him reintroduce himself to us or let Gambia-l resubmit what he
originally sent if he actually did before.
We need to find out a little bit more about this potential cancer !!
hg
-----Original Message-----
From: isatou@Glue.umd.edu
Sent: Thursday, August 07, 1997 9:41 AM
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Encourage Young Gambian Businesses
<< File: ENVELOPE.TXT >>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> On your other comments, the day that we break even in our company will
be a
> happy one.
> Status as of 1.august is currently -(minus) 85000 Dalasis, and we hope!
to
> be reaching the magic
> 0 number by the middle of 1998. (in shalla- (Apol.for
inncorr.spelling))
> We do not have a mobile phone and a Mercedes like some new Gambian
> "yuppies" seem to enjoy.
> We run a used Mitsubishi van, and live in the same house as we work to
keep
> expenses down.
>
> Regards,
> Torstein
> Commit
>
Torstein,
What exactly do you mean by your statement "some new Gambian yuppies"? I
may be overeacting but I personally find this statement to be deragatory.
I also think you seem to be contradicting yourself. Here you go,
'name-calling' young Gambian Entreprenaurs who decided to go and work
hard, legitimately for their country. Isn't this what a lot of people in
this list are propaganding? Instead of looking at the material gains they
have, why not focus on their initiative and input. Attitudes like this
are the reason many Gambians decide to take their business elsewhere
because once they start reaping the benefits of their investment, a lot
of
people start raising eyebrows about how 'large they are living.' I don't
think you're unique because most Gambians think the same way. When
foreigners with businesses acquire a mobile phone and a mercedes, no one
questions it, but no, Gambians (especially young ones) are just not
supposed to act that way even if they work damn hard for it!
Please stop the name calling on hard working Gambians who are just trying
to earn the same respect that their foreign counterparts have in their
own
country.
Isatou
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 10:09:42 -0400 (EDT)
From: David Gilden <dgilden@tiac.net>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: People are People
Message-ID: <l03102800b00f4bd6e316@[204.215.135.128]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>By the way
>Is the name Torstien a Jewish name?
>Let's smell the coffee and wake up
IS this a problem,
I feel it is not be... People helping other people
or working together should be a goal for the earth's community,
Dave Gilden
*Cora Connection Your West African, Manding Music Source*
http://www.drive.net/kora.htm
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 10:27:09 -0500
From: hghanim@nusacc.org
To: dgilden@tiac.net, gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: RE: People are People
Message-ID: <TFSIGTNI@nusacc.org>
Dave
That is not a problem . What is a problem is the derogatory remarks that
creates disunity amongst us.
We should not forget the old Lord Luggard 's rule during the colonial
days in Nigeria -divide and rule- with the help of some agents tactics
similar to Torstein words and actions.
Peace
hg
-----Original Message-----
From: dgilden@tiac.net
Sent: Thursday, August 07, 1997 10:17 AM
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: People are People
<< File: ENVELOPE.TXT >>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
>
>By the way
>Is the name Torstien a Jewish name?
>Let's smell the coffee and wake up
IS this a problem,
I feel it is not be... People helping other people
or working together should be a goal for the earth's community,
Dave Gilden
*Cora Connection Your West African, Manding Music Source*
http://www.drive.net/kora.htm
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 16:32:08 +0200
From: momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Fwd: "Merceneries eye Sierra Leone"
Message-ID: <19970807153404.AAA50272@LOCALNAME>
Instead of using the natural resources to build the Nation it seems
all of it is going to be spent on weapons and Merceneries.
Peace
Momodou Camara
------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
Merceneries eye Sierra Leone
Vancouver company helps ousted government
plot countercoup in the land of diamonds
Friday, August 1, 1997
By Allan Robinson, Karen Howlett and Madelaine Drohan
BY ALLAN ROBINSON,Toronto
KAREN HOWLETT,Toronto
MADELAINE DROHAN,London
The Globe and Mail
Members of the ousted government of diamond-rich Sierra Leone are
considering a countercoup to regain power with the help of a group of
mercenaries and the support of a private Vancouver company, according
to documents obtained by The Globe and Mail.
The latest coup in strife-torn Sierra Leone caused development of its
rich natural resources to come to a halt as Western mining companies
and their employees fled the violence. Now in the midst of that
national tragedy, business people are trying to find ways to profit
from the chaos, curry favour with the government-in-exile and take
steps to recapture the business opportunities lost because of the
coup.
The documents show the crisis has brought together a minister of the
government-in-exile hoping to regain power, a Thai banker on the
lookout for new business opportunities and a mercenary group whose
principals already have commercial interests in Sierra Leone and may
be seeking more. All of them have something to gain from a successful
countercoup.
Tim Spicer, head of the London military consultancy Sandline
International, met Rakesh Saxena, head of Tidewater Management Corp.,
in Vancouver last weekend to discuss the situation in Sierra Leone. It
was not clear whether any representatives of the Sierra Leone
government have met with the Sandline officials.
Mr. Saxena is a former Thai bank official, who is fighting extradition
to Thailand. He is currently living in Canada and conducts his
business operations from here.
Ousted president Ahmad Tejan Kabbah is desperate for help after his
democratically elected government was toppled in a military coup on
May 25. Ministers from neighbouring countries are negotiating with the
coup leaders to try to persuade them to hand back power but have been
unsuccessful so far. With no international offer of military
assistance to restore the government, hiring mercenaries appears to
have become an option. Mr. Kabbah denied any personal knowledge or
involvement in a countercoup when he was reached this week in Guinea.
Mr. Spicer is a career soldier who spent 20 years in the British army
before joining Sandline, a military-consulting firm that works hand in
glove with the mercenary group Executive Outcomes. Sandline sells
military expertise to governments and organizes the purchase of
equipment and the hiring of soldiers for a fee. Sandline's chairman is
Tony Buckingham, a London businessman with extensive mining interests
in Africa. He is also the major shareholder of DiamondWorks Ltd., a
Vancouver company with diamond properties in Sierra Leone and Angola.
Mr. Spicer last hit the news when a Sandline military expedition in
Papua New Guinea went disastrously wrong. The mission, to secure a
copper mine on the island of Bougainville, bears some similarity to
what has been proposed in Sierra Leone. When shown copies of
correspondence between himself and Mr. Saxena outlining plans for
Sandline operations in Sierra Leone, Mr. Spicer refused to comment.
Mr. Saxena, an Indian citizen, is looking to expand his operations in
West Africa, where he already has a bauxite concession. He also hit
the news last year because of financial problems that hit one of
Thailand's largest banks. The Thai authorities are seeking to
extradite him from Canada to face charges of colluding with executives
of the Bangkok Bank of Commerce and Saudi Arabian tycoon Adnan
Khashoggi to defraud the bank of about $65-million (U.S.). He is
resisting extradition and has launched defamation suits against the
Thai government.
But elsewhere, Mr. Saxena's business activities have not slowed down.
The documents obtained by The Globe show that Mr. Saxena asked Mr.
Spicer for a realistic appraisal of the situation in Sierra Leone by
the end of July. To that end, in mid-July Mr. Saxena arranged for the
payment of $70,000 in consultancy fees to Mr. Spicer for its
assessment, plus expenses.
"Our offer of assistance to the Sierra Leonean government is
undoubtedly motivated by our desire to establish and perhaps
consolidate our position in that part of the world," Mr. Saxena wrote
in a letter to Mr. Spicer.
On Monday, Mr. Saxena said his meeting with Mr. Spicer during the
weekend was held to consider overall security matters throughout
Africa in countries such as Liberia and Congo, where he has business
interests. He denied helping the Sierra Leonean government-in-exile,
saying that he was just looking at various options. He also denied any
government officials were present.
"When you are doing business you just have to assess all of the
options. I don't think anything has come of it. . . . We are not in
the business of politics," he said, denying any personal involvement
with the government-in-exile.
Yesterday, a spokesman for Mr. Saxena reiterated that Executive
Outcomes was hired as a consultant to provide a status report on
Sierra Leone's politics -- and potential resolutions of that situation
-- as well as on other countries. Mr. Saxena, who is well-connected
internationally, keeps in touch with diplomats and has millions of
dollars invested privately in Africa, he said.
In a separate document, Momodu Koroma, minister of presidential
affairs in the exiled government of Sierra Leone, outlined to Mr.
Saxena what was expected of Mr. Spicer's group. It would help train
militia groups in Sierra Leone known as the Kamajors to convert them
into an effective military force that could overthrow the coup
leaders, he said in the document.
The coup leaders come from the Sierra Leone military and the
Revolutionary United Front, a group of rebels who fought a guerrilla
war against the government that now finds itself in exile. The
Kamajors, most of whom are loyal to the ousted government, are
traditionally village huntsmen. They lack the military knowledge to
take on the army and the rebels, which is why they need training, arms
and ammunition.
Some Kamajors believe in the magic powers of certain shirts, which,
when worn, are supposed to have the ability to block bullets. Others
believe their magic is strong enough to prevent them from being blown
up when they step on land mines.
According to Mr. Koroma's letter to Mr. Saxena, the
government-in-exile now wants the help of the mercenaries to plan the
"strategy, logistics and training that would convert 40,000 militia
into an effective fighting force."
Reached in Guinea, Mr. Koroma said he knew nothing about the
countercoup plans.
Neither the United Nations nor the West African peace force headed by
Nigeria have stepped in to help restore Mr. Kabbah and his government
to power. Over the past two months, Sierra Leone has been plunged into
chaos. It faces an economic and humanitarian crisis as food supplies
dwindle and businesses remain shut. Mr. Kabbah is anxious to restore
order.
Mr. Kabbah said on Monday that he would not consider hiring
mercenaries. He denied any involvement in planning a countercoup, and
said that anyone in his government exploring this option would be
acting on his own. He added that his government-in-exile lacks the
funds for such a venture and prefers to rely on the help of other
governments.
"We have a military agreement with a country like Nigeria," he said.
"Why would we abandon that and go and hire somebody?"
In correspondence between Mr. Spicer and Mr. Saxena, Mr. Spicer says
his group has unique expertise and knowledge of Sierra Leone. In fact,
Executive Outcomes helped a previous government in the country by
providing training, helicopters and military forces. But when a peace
deal was finally negotiated, the rebels made it a condition that
Executive Outcomes leave the country.
Mr. Spicer's experience was not so positive in Papua New Guinea, where
he negotiated a contract with the government of Sir Julius Chan in
late 1996 to quell an insurrection on Bougainville. Sandline was
supposed to bring in a force of 1,200 soldiers to end the revolt on
Bougainville and regain control of one of the world's largest copper
mines. (The mine has been dormant since rebels took control of the
island in 1989.)
For nine years, the government of Papua New Guinea, a small island
nation north of Australia, battled rebels on Bougainville. Its
undertrained, ill-equipped army had little success; so, like
frustrated governments in Sierra Leone and Angola, Papua New Guinea
hired the mercenaries to help fight its war.
But news that the Papua New Guinea government had a contract with
mercenaries created a public and political uproar and the prime
minister was forced to resign. Sandline personnel in the country were
forced to leave, except Mr. Spicer. He was arrested and became a star
witness at a judicial inquiry into the affair. It became clear during
the inquiry that Sandline had a keen interest in gaining control of
some of Papua New Guinea's mineral wealth.
The inquiry, headed by Mr. Justice Warwick John Andrew of Australia,
looked into what Sandline had called "Project Contravene" and learned
that the mercenary group settled on a fee of $36-million, half of it
received in advance. During the negotiations, Mr. Spicer offered to
take payment in mineral concessions, including the possibility of
taking an interest in the Bougainville copper mine as payment for its
services.
At one point he told the Papua New Guinea government that his company
could form a joint venture with the government and the British mining
giant RTZ-CRA Group, which already has a big stake in the Bougainville
mine.
In his report, Judge Andrew said: "It was part of Sandline's agenda to
obtain an interest in the Bougainville mine."
The judge also said it was clear that Mr. Buckingham, Sandline's
chairman, and to some extent Mr. Spicer, controlled Sandline, along
with a third man, Michael Grunberg. Mr. Grunberg sits on the
DiamondWorks board along with Mr. Buckingham. The money was paid
through a Sandline account in Hong Kong. And the signing officers of
the account, where the $18-million was deposited, included Mr.
Buckingham and Eeben Barlow, who founded Executive Outcomes. Mr.
Barlow was chairman of Executive Outcomes until he stepped down last
week.
All of this might explain the interest of Sandline in securing a new
contract in mineral-rich Sierra Leone.
In his letter to Mr. Spicer, Tidewater's Mr. Saxena said that he
represented a group of companies that had investments in two
properties in Sierra Leone and he wanted a realistic appraisal of the
situation in the country.
The principals behind Sandline also have a continuing financial
interest in Sierra Leone through DiamondWorks, an exploration company
that has been associated with mining promoter Robert Friedland. Mr.
Friedland has only a small equity interest in the company. In
addition, two executives who work for him sit on the board and his
brother Eric is chairman.
But according to the documents obtained by The Globe, it is Mr.
Buckingham, and not Mr. Friedland, who is calling the shots at
DiamondWorks.
A DiamondWorks prospectus issued earlier this year said Mr. Buckingham
acted as an intermediary between Executive Outcomes and governments in
Africa needing military services. It has now become clear that he does
offer this service through Sandline.
DiamondWorks' Koidu mine in the Kono district was forced to close
after the May 25 military coup made operations dangerous. DiamondWorks
evacuated most of its staff, leaving the mine in the hands of security
guards from Lifeguard Ltd., an arm of Executive Outcomes that provides
security to private firms.
DiamondWorks has a total of six diamond concessions in Sierra Leone
and five in Angola, another country where Executive Outcomes has been
active.
DiamondWorks acquired its interest in the Koidu diamond mine in Sierra
Leone in October of 1996 by acquiring Branch Energy Ltd., an Isle of
Man registered company controlled by Mr. Buckingham. Branch was
granted the right to exploit the property under a 25-year lease issued
July 22, 1995. Branch was given the rights by a former Sierra Leonean
military government that predates the Kabbah government. There has
been speculation that this former military government gave Branch the
rights as part payment for the work done by Executive Outcomes.
Mr. Saxena of Tidewater Management also has his eye on these
Diamond Works properties. In a letter to Samir Patel, his
representative in West Africa, he said he thought DiamondWorks would
be prepared to part with most of them, with the possible exception of
Kono, although even here he said a deal might be possible.
Rakesh Saxena -- Resides in Vancouver. Faces extradition to
Thailand on charges relating to financially troubled Bangkok Bank
of Commerce. Attempting to expand his business interests in Sierra
Leone. Tim Spicer -- A former British military officer. Acts as
chief executive officer of Sandline International, a
military-consultancy company in London. Ahmed Tejan Kabbah --
Sierra Leone's president-in-exile after a coup. Resides in Guinea.
Tony Buckingham -- A London businessman. Chairman of Sandline
International.
Largest shareholder of DiamondWorks Ltd. of Vancouver. DiamondWorks
holds diamond properties in Sierra Leone.
Momodu Koroma -- Minister of presidential affairs for Sierra
Leone's government in exile.
Samir Patel -- Mr. Saxena's representative in West Africa. Offices
in Guinea and Liberia.
Copyright + 1997, The Globe and Mail Company
All rights reserved.
______________FWD END_______________________________
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 18:03:05 +-300
From: BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
To: "'gambia-l@u.washington.edu'" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: RE: People are People
Message-ID: <01BCA35C.2AA7F3E0@dico.qatar.net.qa>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BCA35C.2AAF9500"
------ =_NextPart_000_01BCA35C.2AAF9500
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Not only that,it is against our rules to hurl Racial Epithets at others =
simply because they say things that you don't want to hear.It must stop!
Regards Basss
----------
From: David Gilden[SMTP:dgilden@tiac.net]
Sent: 07 =D4=DA=C8=C7=E4, 1997 13:09
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
Subject: Re: People are People=20
>
>By the way
>Is the name Torstien a Jewish name?
>Let's smell the coffee and wake up
IS this a problem,
I feel it is not be... People helping other people
or working together should be a goal for the earth's community,
Dave Gilden
*Cora Connection Your West African, Manding Music Source*
http://www.drive.net/kora.htm=20
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 11:28:55 -0500
From: hghanim@nusacc.org
To: kolls567@qatar.net.qa, gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: RE: People are People
Message-ID: <TFSJBVPI@nusacc.org>
OK,
Sorry let's stop it
Sorry if anyone offended
hg
-----Original Message-----
From: kolls567@qatar.net.qa
Sent: Thursday, August 07, 1997 11:17 AM
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: RE: People are People
<< File: FILE0001.ATT >> << File: ENVELOPE.TXT >>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Not only that,it is against our rules to hurl Racial Epithets at others
simply because they say things that you don't want to hear.It must stop!
Regards Basss
----------
From: David Gilden[SMTP:dgilden@tiac.net]
Sent: 07 ____{, 1997 13:09
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
Subject: Re: People are People
>
>By the way
>Is the name Torstien a Jewish name?
>Let's smell the coffee and wake up
IS this a problem,
I feel it is not be... People helping other people
or working together should be a goal for the earth's community,
Dave Gilden
*Cora Connection Your West African, Manding Music Source*
http://www.drive.net/kora.htm
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 11:36:05 -0500
From: hghanim@nusacc.org
To: kolls567@qatar.net.qa, gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: RE: People are People
Message-ID: <TFSJEHJA@nusacc.org>
I apologize for the oversight, Bass
Let us please close this and forget it happened.
Thanks
hg
-----Original Message-----
From: kolls567@qatar.net.qa
Sent: Thursday, August 07, 1997 11:17 AM
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: RE: People are People
<< File: FILE0001.ATT >> << File: ENVELOPE.TXT >>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Not only that,it is against our rules to hurl Racial Epithets at others
simply because they say things that you don't want to hear.It must stop!
Regards Basss
----------
From: David Gilden[SMTP:dgilden@tiac.net]
Sent: 07 ____{, 1997 13:09
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
Subject: Re: People are People
>
>By the way
>Is the name Torstien a Jewish name?
>Let's smell the coffee and wake up
IS this a problem,
I feel it is not be... People helping other people
or working together should be a goal for the earth's community,
Dave Gilden
*Cora Connection Your West African, Manding Music Source*
http://www.drive.net/kora.htm
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 12:32:47 EST5EDT
From: "LAURA T RADER" <LTR6685@owl.forestry.uga.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: New and Curious
Message-ID: <19BFD3C74DA@owl.forestry.uga.edu>
Good Afternoon,
Being new to this mailing list, I don't know what subjects you have
discussed. There is a piece of information that I have been mulling
over for quite some time and I hope that someone can help.
Does anyone know about the oil reserves off the coast of the Gambia?
On the flight during my last visit to the Gambia, I sat next to a man
that apparently was some type of international investor. The man
(whose name escapes me) mentioned to me that there were reserves. He
even went so far as to say that the Gambia was going to become a very
rich country. My first thought was that only a few people and not
the country would become very rich.
This was not the first time that I had heard this information. I
have learned piece mill from different individuals that there were
reserves of oil off of the coast.
Does anyone know if they really exist? If they are marketable, how
can the money stay in the Gambia? Is there an aid organization or
something that can manage this resource and disperse the funds
equally over the Gambia?
If anyone has any information, please let me know. For all I know
there could already be a plan in action. Unfortunately, money is one
of the things that makes the world go around. If this is true it
would be an excellent source of income to the country, not to mention
the jobs it would create.
Thanks and Take Care,
Laura Rader
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 12:01:06 -0000
From: "The Gambia-L shadow list" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Gambians NOT going back home
Message-ID: <B0000003126@south.commit.gm>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
This is forwarded from "Torstein Grotnes" <tgr@commit.gm>
(tgr@commit.gm)
----------
> From: Salifuj@AOL.COM
> As was mentioned before by some normal people, we must not impose on
> people what we don't understand.
>to explicitly
> bother people is an ummeasurable burden that we cannot commpletely
> comprehend without resolving to immediate repercussions.
Maybe you have to bother people, to get something happening?!
> To begin with, I would tell you boldly, that I am a businessman who has
> done every type of business in the Gambia.Nobody wants to do business in
> Gambia more than me, but I have been there and seen the results of a
government
> that has become too greedy. My associates were arrested and jailed for
importing
> comodities that the government also imported. Now you tell why any
> government would venture into a business adventure.
A question here, are you talking about the new or the old government?
The new government seems to try to change the private investment
environment
in a positive way. The main obstacle I see for private investments are the
corruption
environment inherited from the Jawara area.
Companies with "friends" are be able to import commodities at a fraction of
the cost
that a new company that goes "by the book"(meaning paying the full gov.tax)
are experiencing.
> Let's understand that many of us on this List are older people who want
> nothing more than an economically respectable Gambia but we are also out
> on a mission to accomplish specific goals.
!
> In short, all I am saying is *STOP IMPOSING ON PEOPLE* about going home.
> No one forced you to leave your
> country in the first place and therefore you shouldn't be forced to go
> back either.
Maybe a lot of people were "forced" to leave the country because of lack of
proper schools, jobs etc.?
A good thing would maybe then be if that same person now with resources and
knowledge comes back and
tries to change that.?! Just a thought..
> Those who constantly bring up the topic of going back home to rebuild the
> country seem to *NOT* understand the real reasons why most people do not
> think it is the right time yet. Consider for example, a 21 year old boy
> who left his country almost 10 years ago in search of wealth or
education....
Young people should do what their destiny tells them to do, I was more
thinking of
well established, two/three cars families with posh houses and highly
educated
persons that enjoy their regular cognac and thinks Bill Clinton is to soft
on drugs.
These people should wake up, (maybe even re-read the "roots" book that are
dusting down
in their showcase libraries?!)
> Over and over again, he reminds himself that he
> is on a mission unaccomplished.
I just don't believe in the "worried Gambian kid" picture you are talking
about.
Most young Gambians abroad I have been talking with has a clear view of
what they are doing and a full of optimism on how to go about it.
> For the unfortunate kid who
> failed to indulge in higher learning, he has reponsiblity up to his neck.
> In most cases he has a wife or two at home and still has the nerve to
have
> to think about women, despite working two or more non-technical jobs just
> to make an honest living.
One or two wives??? How about getting your priorities right, then?
Do you have to be married just because your a Gambian aged over 21???
If you can't afford it in my country, there is a simple answer to marriage.
Wait until both of you have the economic backbone to give your kids the
security
they need!
I really think there is some miles to go for the Male and Female Gambians
to see
that ten kids might not be the perfect conditions, when the wife(s) demands
a new
D1000 dress every month and the over-all income in the family is something
like
D3-4000 a month!
> Now let me see you stand up and guarantee this kid that his family will
> not hunt for food residue from his neighbours if he goes back. Let me see
> what kind of job you are going to offer this kid so as to be able to live
> a corrupt-free life. Better yet, show him how he can get a guranteed bank
> loan to start his own business from a bank whose interest rates are as
> high as Mt. Kilimajaro. If you can do this, then I assure you, the
> doctors, professors, engineers and skilled Gambian workers abroad will
> have something to think about for their homeland.
> Peace,
> -Sal
Again, I believe that the doctors, professors, engineers and skilled
Gambian workers abroad
is exactly the ones that has the brains and knowledge to change the country
so that you are
able to take a proper bank loan, live a corrupt free life and the only
problem with food would be
deciding which brand to buy....
Yours,
Torstein
The Gambia
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 20:03:39 +-300
From: BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
To: "'gambia-l@u.washington.edu'" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: RE: New and Curious
Message-ID: <01BCA36D.021318E0@difp.qatar.net.qa>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BCA36D.021ABA00"
------ =_NextPart_000_01BCA36D.021ABA00
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Not only that,all those Gambians who are now so angry with Mr.Grotnes =
for having the audacity to tell them to go home and stop complaining =
will very soon start to book for their One-Way trip to Yundum!
Regards Basss!
----------
From: LAURA T RADER[SMTP:LTR6685@owl.forestry.uga.edu]
Sent: 07 =D4=DA=C8=C7=E4, 1997 15:32
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
Subject: New and Curious=20
Good Afternoon,
Being new to this mailing list, I don't know what subjects you have=20
discussed. There is a piece of information that I have been mulling=20
over for quite some time and I hope that someone can help. =20
Does anyone know about the oil reserves off the coast of the Gambia? =20
On the flight during my last visit to the Gambia, I sat next to a man=20
that apparently was some type of international investor. The man=20
(whose name escapes me) mentioned to me that there were reserves. He=20
even went so far as to say that the Gambia was going to become a very=20
rich country. My first thought was that only a few people and not=20
the country would become very rich.
This was not the first time that I had heard this information. I=20
have learned piece mill from different individuals that there were=20
reserves of oil off of the coast.
Does anyone know if they really exist? If they are marketable, how=20
can the money stay in the Gambia? Is there an aid organization or=20
something that can manage this resource and disperse the funds=20
equally over the Gambia?
If anyone has any information, please let me know. For all I know=20
there could already be a plan in action. Unfortunately, money is one=20
of the things that makes the world go around. If this is true it=20
would be an excellent source of income to the country, not to mention=20
the jobs it would create.
Thanks and Take Care,
Laura Rader=20
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 18:06:39 +0100 (BST)
From: O BALDEH <O.Baldeh@Bradford.ac.uk>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Cc: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: A Gambian National Language
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.970807175656.7772A-100000@merlin.cen.brad.ac.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Les Momodous (Sidibeh, Njie and in particular Camara),
I will give you as much replies as possible. Presently I am busy
completing my dissertation and when I am finished be sure the Verb, Noun,
someadjectives and just a handful of adverbs, decorated with few
pounctuation marks will say to you jaama ngen fanaa.
Susan, gracias for the inforpeche.
In the meantime, Camara manso na da sa!
Ciao; gambiankol buka kumbo......
Omar Baldeh
On Thu, 7 Aug 1997 momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk wrote:
> Gambia-l,
> I would like to recommend " BLACK AFRICA: The Economic and
> Cultural Basis for a Federated State." By Cheikh Anta Diop, to any
> one interested in how linguistic unification is possible.
>
> I sent a personal message to Mr. Baldeh asking him if he thinks that
> the great Cheikh Anta Diop thought like a European and I am
> still waiting for his answer.
>
> On 1 Aug 97 at 15:02, O BALDEH wrote:
> > MOMODOU you are in Europe but you are not a
> >EUROPEAN. So when you are asked about our national language you
> >should go back to the african context and answer the question do not
> >answer it while thinking in the european way!
>
> Mr. Baldeh, Cheikh Anta Diop even went further to demonstrate that
> ..."in due time it will be possible appropriately to choose one of
> the major African tongues and promote it to the level of sole
> governmental and cultural language for the entire continent..."
>
> He further mentions ".. The choice of such a language will have to be
> made by a competent interterritorial commission imbued with deep
> patriotic feeling foreswearing any hidden chauvinism.."
>
> He also talked about the choice of Language on a Local scale in the
> Framework of a given Territory.
>
> As I said before, I am not a linguist but one who is curios.
>
> I don't agree with those who argue that we in Gambia have English as
> the official language and should stick to that because it is spoken
> world wide. Do we need to communicate here in English if we had one
> of our "national languages" as the Gambian National language?
>
>
> Susan, thanks for explaining to Mr. Baldeh the meaning of "Peace
> corps".
>
> Momodou Camara
>
>
>
> *******************************************************
> http://home3.inet.tele.dk/mcamara
>
> **"Start by doing what's necessary, then what's
> possible and suddenly you are doing the impossible"***
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 13:07:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: Momodou Musa Janneh <mmjanneh@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Folks! Folks!
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.94.970807125605.2607C-100000@utkux4.cas.utk.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
ASSALAMU WA ALAIKUM,
>
> I hope you guys will open your ears wider and listen to me.
Just like in The Gambian tradition how the young ones listen to their
elders. I'm not that old, just 79. I think I'm older than must of you.
> Anyway, I used to read those important young generation issues
> you folks debates about, but since things started turning upside down I
> stop. You guys need to make best use of this network for educational
> purposes, not to attack each other personally in this network. What you
> boys think about that?
> Any mathematician around? I see, hear, feel, smell, and taste an
> average of 150 different things a day. Do you boys know the total of
> things I've come across in 79 years of my life? So boys, listen to me as
> I speak. Let me make it clear, I said listen not worship. Some people are
> fond of juktapos.
> I need some donations to build the roads in Gunjur, seriously, so
> I need all the true Gambians to sacrifice just $50.00 each from their
> pockets to get the job done. Any mathematician around? For about 2,000
> Gambians wiiling to contribute, do you know the total that would be
> collected? Your donations will be in need when plans are made, but for now
> keep atleast $50.00 in your pocket incase we decide to begin the project.
> Building our own nation Folks! What's more important than that?
> Again Folks! Folks! We need to work side by side with our people as true
> Gambians. I shall be leaving permanently to the Gambia very soon, after
> living in the States for 53 years.
>
> Until later, take care of yourself and each other.
> Momodo Musa
> (Muhammad Mousa)
>
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 02:53:34 +0900 (JST)
From: binta@iuj.ac.jp
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Gambians not going back!
Message-ID: <199708071747.CAA11912@mlsv.iuj.ac.jp>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Salifu,
I hope this will not turn into a war of words for I lack the stamina!
You may be an older person who knows what is keeping him in the US,
but your this piece falls a little shy of my expectations! Whatever
you must have done back home, as you narrated it, is very good and I
like every bit of it. Yet, the truth remains that Gambia is there for
Gambians to build. Perhaps it is highly hypocritical of me to say
this as I dig my little hole here and refuse to budge.
No-one is forcing you to go home, especially if you do not have
anything to fall on. Yes, the conditions back home can be trecherous
and we must not lose sight of it. That only brings us to square one!
If you think I am 'abnormal' and that my 'friends are the push-button
of my ideas', I can say very little when the only thing that connects
you and I are inanimate computers and telephone lines! This is the
beauty of Gambia-l! Well, how do you feel responding to a not-normal
person like me? (laugh)....
Imposing??? Why on earth must I do that as if I were the one who sent
you to wherever you are? What I said is nothing new, but I like you
taking it out on me as if I am the pioneer of the idea of brain-drain
reversal. My opinion was partly in response to your not-so-well
thought out rebuttal of what Torstein(?)wrote. But as the saying goes,
'when old bones are mentioned, some grannies shiver'! Please, I implore
you to be a bit more vigilant next time. Who knows....
'Keep up the good work down there'.
Lamin.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 02:55:41 +0900 (JST)
From: binta@iuj.ac.jp
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: New and Curious
Message-ID: <199708071749.CAA11921@mlsv.iuj.ac.jp>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Laura T. Rader,
Welcome to Gambia-l. I must have missed the intro. you send to
Gambia-l! Will you please tell us who you are? simply curious.
Lamin.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 20:23:43 +0200
From: momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: House for rent needed
Message-ID: <19970807192541.AAA2618@LOCALNAME>
Gambia-l,
I am looking for a house or some rooms for rent, for a period of
three weeks in November this year in The Gambia.
I am sending twenty (20) tenth grade students and two (2) teachers
from Denmark to travel to The Gambia on a three weeks visit. They
plan to go and stay in Kuntaur Fula kunda (CRD) for a period of 8 to
10 days where they will stay with their counterparts of Kuntaur
Junior Secondary School. The rest of the trip will be spent in and
around Banjul and Kombo.
The students are between the ages of 15 and 16 years old.
Their trip will include include trips to surrounding villages,
Jarumeh Koto School, Armitage high school and the stone circles in
Wasu. They would also like to take part in the daily works of the
villagers. They will be the pioneers and hope that it will become an
annual event and hope that it could develop to be a close cooperation
between them am Kuntaur Junior Secondary School and perhaps some
other school in the urban area.
The house or rooms I need for them should be located in Kombo st.
Mary. It will be used as a base where the students could use
during the entire three weeks.
Please, let me know if you know someone who has some rooms to rent
out during this period. The students and teachers do not want to
stay in the hotels where all the money is repatriated back to Europe
and Scandinavia. The alternative for them will be to stay in Bakotu,
Bungalow Beach or Kairaba Beach Hotels.
You could send me an e-mail at:
mcamara@post3.tele.dk or momodou@inform-bbs.dk
as soon as possible and latest on Monday the 11th of August.
Thanks for reading!
Momodou Camara
*******************************************************
http://home3.inet.tele.dk/mcamara
**"Start by doing what's necessary, then what's
possible and suddenly you are doing the impossible"***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 20:36:58 +0200
From: momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: New Member
Message-ID: <19970807193856.AAA31364@LOCALNAME>
Gambia-l,
Momodou Buharry Gassama has been added to the list. Welcome
to Gambia-l Mr. Gassama we look forward to your contributions.
Please send a brief introduction to: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Regards
Momodou Camara
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 14:45:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: "N'Deye Marie N'Jie" <njie.1@osu.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Gambia travel site (fwd)
Message-ID: <2.2.16.19970807144325.214f0b92@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 21:20:41 -0400 (EDT)
>From: "Fatou N'Jie" <gs01fnn@panther.Gsu.EDU>
>Subject: Gambia travel site (fwd)
>To: "N'Deye Marie N'Jie" <njie.1@osu.edu>, Baboucar Sallah <lamtoro@aol.com>
>
>
>Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 18:04:34 -0700
>From: Spector Travel of Boston <africa@spectortravel.com>
>To: fanjie@gsu.edu
>Subject: Gambia travel site
>
Gambia-L:
Here's some travel information on the Gambia from Spector Travel:
>Visit our site @ www.spectortravel.com
>
>
>
-----------------------------------
N'Deye Marie N'Jie
Graduate Research Associate
The Ohio State University
Rm 260 Agricultural Engineering Bldg
590 Woody Hayes Drive
Columbus, OH 43210
Fax: (614)292-9448
Phone: (614) 688-3445 (W)
E-mail: njie.1@osu.edu
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 14:47:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: Salifuj@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Gambians not going back!
Message-ID: <970807144721_-153649533@emout15.mail.aol.com>
Lamin Drammeh wrote:
<<
Salifu,
I hope this will not turn into a war of words for I lack the stamina!
>>
No..... certainly NOT. I also do not like flame wars, besides I do not speak
Japanese (laugh).
No hard feelings.....and as Ross Perot would put it, I AM ALL EARS.
-Sal
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 18:20:28 +0200
From: "Momodou S Sidibeh" <momodou.sidibeh@stockholm.mail.telia.com>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: RE: LA-LA PART 2
Message-ID: <199708071853.UAA23711@d1o2.telia.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
It is loyalty welded together by kinship ties, ethnic affinity, common
geographic origins etc. (There are departments and work places in the
Gambia where people from particular villages are disproportionately
represented). Feudal lords in the countryside gradually became outcompeted
by the new emergent bosses produced by the economic possibilities provided
by the state! Like their former counterparts they naturally invested in the
land (NOT IN MANUFACTURING!), but this time in real estate: owning and
developing 5, 10, 15, even 20 compounds, marrying wives or "purchasing"
concubines, building hideously luxurious compounds, and cruising in
out-of-place cars; besides, financing extravagant and wasteful christening
ceremonies and weddings become a very visible class characteristic; all of
this amidst seas of poverty and depravation. These are the exhibitionist
trappings of a manufactured mythical social status. The alter ego of a
Gambian bigman or biglady. Just provoke them and you will suffer instant
rebuke: "do you know who I AM?". They are loyal to no one but their vested
economic interests and the immediate boss who wields extraordianry power
over their fate. Like an exceptionally slow octopus the connective
tentacles grow, gradually engulfing the whole social fabric: from the
ministry, to the departments, down to the gradener and cleaner; their
wives, the in-laws, their children, and cousins in the next village. This
way the state itself almost disappears and becomes privatised, with many
workers facing difficulty in differentiating what belongs to the government
from what belongs to "boss". No wonder, workers are routinely diverted to
do repairs on boss' house, for which job the state naturally, pays. The
"privatisation" of the state itself logically implies the emergence of a
personal ruler. Former president Jawara was an exceptionally good one.
Throughout his long career, few politicians dared challenge his authority.
Those who did dare to do so were met with ruthless vengeance. The only
politicians who he could not reduce to ridicule were MOJA members (who were
in any case too invisible to bring about any thing near a revolution) and
members of PDOIS. This was so largely because these patriotic Gambians had
shown disregard for those mundane accretions of power which his ordinary
opponents could hardly live without.
Thus we can see how social relations in Gambia are based not on hard work
and production but on personal ties. The connection of hard work to
productivity and wealth creation is conveniently dissolved by a fictitious
reality of kinship, ethnicity, regionalism, and how these are perceived to
constitute the road to success, wealth, and power, and therefore, status. [
You get a job not necessarily by presenting any certificates of merit but
by announcing that you are the nephew of your uncle who hapens to be the
M.D of G!P!M!B!!!]. This is THE REALITY AROUND WHICH THE DREAMS, THE
ASPIRATIONS, THE LIVELIHOOD OF THE MAJORITY OF GAMBIANS ARE BUILT...A VILLA
AT FAJARA OR KERR SERIGNE, A CAR, A GORGEOUS WIFE OR HUSBAND FOR THAT
MATTER, AND A WELL-GROOMED POT-BELLY. Obviously, I realise that this
situation has been gradually changing, even if very slowly. The important
point to note is that THE SPACE AND PACE OF THAT CHANGE IS FUNDAMENTALLY
DETERMINED BY THE DYNAMICS OF THE DREAM WORLD; and unfortunately, this
dream world fits in with, and is reinforced by, the magical world view
predominant in most of Africa. So instead of learning new skills, and
learning to become more effective at work or in business, people will seek
the blessings of marabouts and witch-doctors, sealing their bodies, homes,
offices, and work-places against the spiritual intrusions of malevolents
and ill-wishers. [As a trainee-engineer at GuC my boss - who came to work
with lines of jujus strapped to his body - explained how his enemies buried
piles of amulets beneath the concrete floor of the power house at Half-Die.
At my laughter, he simply smiled and assured me that I knew nothing of what
is going on in the world!]. In Gambia, one factor which is very important
in this context is our small size. Most people in the civil service either
know eachother or have common acquaintances. This factor renders the nature
of government and all official business extremely personalised and
informal; a perfect circumstance for corruption and nepotism. Foreigners
who do not fit in here are shaken down for kick-backs in order to acquire
governement contracts business licences.
In my opinion, this is the kind of Gambia investors such as Commit
Enterprises, and young concerned idealists (no offence meant) like Pa Musa
Jallow have ventured into. In this world Western orderliness such as is
produced by merit and competence weigh extremely little. Any attempt to
disturb the natural order of things is perceived by seniors as a direct
assault on their very source of life. You are expected either to be
wilfully absorbed into "orderliness", or you desist absolutely from
becoming a source of "disorder".
(CONTINUATION FOLLOWS IN part 3)
Momodou Sidibeh
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 20:52:43 +0200
From: "Momodou S Sidibeh" <momodou.sidibeh@stockholm.mail.telia.com>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: RE: LA-LA PART 3
Message-ID: <199708071853.UAA23717@d1o2.telia.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Independent thinking and action is simply futile, as one would be
waging a crusade against the now long-established norms that have developed
into a debilitating mass culture that is allergic to change and progress.
This is the sort of situation that Michail Gorbachev encountered in the
former Soviet Union when he launched his 'perestroika' , eventhough the
historical circumstances are quite different. He labelled it the Breaking
Mechanism.
Individuals can, of course exercise a lot of courage in facing such
circumstances. But generally, things hardly are changed by them.
Organisations can indeed, I think, offer an alternative. I think PDOIS is
interesting but in its present form, it is infact its own enemy. The very
ordinariness of its leaders, their complete simplicity and down-to-earth
disposition; their sophisticated intellectualism, disarming honesty, and
their complete disregard for pomp and exhibition are qualities which are
THE VERY ANTITHESIS OF THE DREAM WORLD OF THE MAJORITY OF GAMBIANS. IT IS
NOT THAT MOST GAMBIANS PREFER DISHONEST POLITICIANS. NO! IT IS RATHER THAT
PEOPLE ANYWHERE WILL NOT WALK AN HONEST ROAD IF THEY ARE PERSUADED THAT IT
LEADS TO A POOR AND DARK CITY. PDOIS fails in elections not fundamentally
because the governing party monopolises all the instruments of propaganda,
or their lack of funds (as a PDOIS leader who was in Stockholm a few years
ago explained). Those who vote for PDOIS are usually very young people who
see no chance for themselves in the present order of things, but also who
are genuinely moved and convinced by the egalitarian rhetoric and the
intellectual appeal and vigour of party leaders , and believe in the
party's programme. But for the great majority, PDOIS represents a threat to
their dreams. Besides, convincing middle-class Gambians of the merits of
socialism, when even the Chinese are mindlessly pursuing a "red capitalism"
is a task that can be embraced only by people with a dedication so
religious in intensity as Saint Augustine's.
So what is to be done? My belief is that if a good number of Gambians
agree on at least the symptoms of the problems affecting their homeland,
then we would have a good starting point to discuss the predicament.
I have not read all the contributions about this question of going back
home but I think we need to deal with that with a degree of tolerance such
as is expected of people who have "nothing" in common besides our
Gambianness and/or a fluid relationship based on sharing a forum for the
mere exchange of views. Besides, we all have our different individual
histories, some of which may consist of traumatic experiences from home.
That notwithstanding, if you have a husband or a wife who declares flatly
that she/he would not live in Gambia, then I must ask you how much of a
husband or wife you have? OCCASIONAL VISITS, EVEN FOR SHORT PERIODS WILL DO
THE WHOLE FAMILY, ESPECIALLY THE CHILDREN, TREMENDOUS GOOD. Personally, I
have long since stopped thinking of going home. I am planning to go back
home. But I have no illusions whatsoever, that my presence should be of any
good to the Gambia.
Finally, I must apologise to all of you that this has become unnecessarily
long. It was not planned to be that way. The thing assumed a life of its
own as soon as I began writing last night. Infact I realise I have a lot
to say about this problem and the new regime. But for that I will wait till
much later.
Thank you all for your kind patience.
Momodou S. Sidibeh.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 14:55:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: "N'Deye Marie N'Jie" <njie.1@osu.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Warning Bizarre News: Senegal!!! (fwd)
Message-ID: <2.2.16.19970807145352.214fd684@postbox.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>>Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 14:11:46 -0400 (EDT)
>>From: "Fatou N'Jie" <gs01fnn@panther.Gsu.EDU>
>>Subject: Warning Bizarre News: Senegal!!! (fwd)
>>To: "N'Deye Marie N'Jie" <njie.1@osu.edu>, ndella@hotmail.com,
>> Taycae Taylor <tataylor@ubmail.ubalt.edu>,
>> Baboucar Sallah <lamtoro@aol.com>
>>
>>
>>
>>**
>>Senegal mobs kill foreigners suspected of shrinking male genitals
>>
>> 4 August 1997
>> Web posted at: 23:58 SAT, Johannesburg time (21:58
>>GMT)
>>
>> DAKAR, Senegal (AP) Vigilante mobs convinced that
>>foreign
>> sorcerers can shrink a man's genitals with a mere
>>handshake
>> have killed eight people in Senegal in the past week.
>>
>> Attackers killed five people at Ziguinghor in
>>southern Senegal
>> after a man accused one of them of making his penis shrink,
>> newspapers reported Friday. At least three other people were
>> killed in the West African nation's capital, Dakar.
>>
>> More than 30 other people have been seriously
>>injured in the
>> mob attacks, in which vigilantes have beaten, stabbed and in
>>at
>> least one case burned their victims.
>>
>> Mboyo Jean Roger, a refugee from Congo, told
>>police he was
>> attacked last week after he shook hands with a
>>group of men
>> before he entered a shop. When he left the store, one man
>> confronted him, shouting that his penis had shriveled just
>>after
>> the handshake.
>>
>> Roger said the group pounced on him while
>>onlookers shouted,
>> "Death to foreigners! They are all witches!"
>>Passers-by handed
>> him to police for protection.
>>
>> Belief in black magic and evil spells runs strong
>>in West Africa,
>> and the rampant rumors have created a "collective psychosis"
>> leading to mob attacks, said Dakar psychologist Mamadou
>> Mboj.
>>
>> The violence in Senegal is the deadliest result
>>yet of a bizarre
>> rumor that led to killings earlier this year in Cameroon,
>>Ivory
>> Coast and Ghana.
>>
>> The rumor varies, but generally alleges that
>>foreigners use
>> black magic on a man they touch, causing his penis to
>>shrink.
>> An accomplice of the magician then offers to sell the victim
>>a
>> cure, the rumors say.
>>
>> African foreigners were targeted in all the
>>countries, a sign of
>> the ethnic animosity common to the region and the resentment
>> many Africans feel toward outsiders who compete with them for
>> scarce jobs.
>>
>> In Senegal, a local radio station helped fuel the
>>hysteria when
>> one of its correspondents reported that he had seen a man
>> whose genitals had shriveled through some malevolent contact.
>>
>> Police are investigating the killings. Dakar's
>>public security
>> commissioner, Ahmadou Tall, told the
>>government-run Le Soleil
>> newspaper he personally examined about 15 people
>>who made
>> such claims and found the allegations to be false.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>-----------------------------------
>N'Deye Marie N'Jie
>Graduate Research Associate
>The Ohio State University
>Rm 260 Agricultural Engineering Bldg
>590 Woody Hayes Drive
>Columbus, OH 43210
>
>Fax: (614)292-9448
>Phone: (614) 688-3445 (W)
>E-mail: njie.1@osu.edu
>
>
-----------------------------------
N'Deye Marie N'Jie
Graduate Research Associate
The Ohio State University
Rm 260 Agricultural Engineering Bldg
590 Woody Hayes Drive
Columbus, OH 43210
Fax: (614)292-9448
Phone: (614) 688-3445 (W)
E-mail: njie.1@osu.edu
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 21:03:38 +0200
From: "Momodou S Sidibeh" <momodou.sidibeh@stockholm.mail.telia.com>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Cc: <binta@iuj.ac.jp>
Subject: SV: SV: LA-LA-LA
Message-ID: <199708071903.VAA02294@d1o2.telia.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Hello Mr. Drammeh,
As I said once, it is these little pieces of encouragement combined with
questions and criticisms that keep us going on with
the-good-work-down-here. So, let us share the praise.
Thank you so much.
Sidibeh
----------
> Från: binta@iuj.ac.jp
> Till: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
> Ämne: Re: SV: LA-LA-LA
> Datum: den 7 augusti 1997 05:10
>
> Mr. Sidibeh,
>
> Although I sometimes disagree with your idea of African feudalism, I
> have nothing for you this time but praise. As our common saying goes,
> 'keep up the good work down there' (laugh).
>
> Lamin.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 21:18:49 +0200
From: "Momodou S Sidibeh" <momodou.sidibeh@stockholm.mail.telia.com>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: SV: LA-LA PART 3
Message-ID: <199708071921.VAA17950@d1o2.telia.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
P:S Before anyone says anything, I need urgently to make a clarification.
I HAVE GENERALISED EXTREMELY IN THESE THREE POSTINGS. I duely regret that.
I am very much aware that there have been and there are many MANY GAMBIANS
AND INDEED FOREIGNERS IN GAMBIA WHO, IN THE FACE OF EXTERME DIFFICULTIES,
WORKED SELFLESSLY HARD FOR THEMSELVES AND FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE COUNTRY.
WE SHOULD NEVER FORGET THAT !!
SIDIBEH
----------
> Från: Momodou S Sidibeh <momodou.sidibeh@stockholm.mail.telia.com>
> Till: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
> Ämne: RE: LA-LA PART 3
> Datum: den 7 augusti 1997 20:52
>
> Independent thinking and action is simply futile, as one would be
> waging a crusade against the now long-established norms that have
developed
> into a debilitating mass culture that is allergic to change and progress.
> This is the sort of situation that Michail Gorbachev encountered in the
> former Soviet Union when he launched his 'perestroika' , eventhough the
> historical circumstances are quite different. He labelled it the Breaking
> Mechanism.
> Individuals can, of course exercise a lot of courage in facing such
> circumstances. But generally, things hardly are changed by them.
> Organisations can indeed, I think, offer an alternative. I think PDOIS is
> interesting but in its present form, it is infact its own enemy. The very
> ordinariness of its leaders, their complete simplicity and down-to-earth
> disposition; their sophisticated intellectualism, disarming honesty, and
> their complete disregard for pomp and exhibition are qualities which are
> THE VERY ANTITHESIS OF THE DREAM WORLD OF THE MAJORITY OF GAMBIANS. IT IS
> NOT THAT MOST GAMBIANS PREFER DISHONEST POLITICIANS. NO! IT IS RATHER
THAT
> PEOPLE ANYWHERE WILL NOT WALK AN HONEST ROAD IF THEY ARE PERSUADED THAT
IT
> LEADS TO A POOR AND DARK CITY. PDOIS fails in elections not
fundamentally
> because the governing party monopolises all the instruments of
propaganda,
> or their lack of funds (as a PDOIS leader who was in Stockholm a few
years
> ago explained). Those who vote for PDOIS are usually very young people
who
> see no chance for themselves in the present order of things, but also who
> are genuinely moved and convinced by the egalitarian rhetoric and the
> intellectual appeal and vigour of party leaders , and believe in the
> party's programme. But for the great majority, PDOIS represents a threat
to
> their dreams. Besides, convincing middle-class Gambians of the merits of
> socialism, when even the Chinese are mindlessly pursuing a "red
capitalism"
> is a task that can be embraced only by people with a dedication so
> religious in intensity as Saint Augustine's.
>
> So what is to be done? My belief is that if a good number of Gambians
> agree on at least the symptoms of the problems affecting their homeland,
> then we would have a good starting point to discuss the predicament.
>
> I have not read all the contributions about this question of going back
> home but I think we need to deal with that with a degree of tolerance
such
> as is expected of people who have "nothing" in common besides our
> Gambianness and/or a fluid relationship based on sharing a forum for the
> mere exchange of views. Besides, we all have our different individual
> histories, some of which may consist of traumatic experiences from home.
> That notwithstanding, if you have a husband or a wife who declares flatly
> that she/he would not live in Gambia, then I must ask you how much of a
> husband or wife you have? OCCASIONAL VISITS, EVEN FOR SHORT PERIODS WILL
DO
> THE WHOLE FAMILY, ESPECIALLY THE CHILDREN, TREMENDOUS GOOD. Personally, I
> have long since stopped thinking of going home. I am planning to go back
> home. But I have no illusions whatsoever, that my presence should be of
any
> good to the Gambia.
> Finally, I must apologise to all of you that this has become
unnecessarily
> long. It was not planned to be that way. The thing assumed a life of its
> own as soon as I began writing last night. Infact I realise I have a lot
> to say about this problem and the new regime. But for that I will wait
till
> much later.
>
> Thank you all for your kind patience.
>
> Momodou S. Sidibeh.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 22:22:20 +-300
From: BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
To: "'gambia-l@u.washington.edu'" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: RE: Warning Bizarre News: Senegal!!! (fwd)
Message-ID: <01BCA380.686AC3A0@dicm.qatar.net.qa>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BCA380.686AC3A0"
------ =_NextPart_000_01BCA380.686AC3A0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ahmadou Tall, told the
>>government-run Le Soleil
>> newspaper he personally examined about 15 people
>>who made
>> such claims and found the allegations to be false.
It is inspiring to learn that not everyone has lost his head in this =
madness.
Regards Basss!
----------
From: N'Deye Marie N'Jie[SMTP:njie.1@osu.edu]
Sent: 07 =D4=DA=C8=C7=E4, 1997 17:55
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
Subject: Warning Bizarre News: Senegal!!! (fwd)
=20
>
>>Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 14:11:46 -0400 (EDT)
>>From: "Fatou N'Jie" <gs01fnn@panther.Gsu.EDU>
>>Subject: Warning Bizarre News: Senegal!!! (fwd)
>>To: "N'Deye Marie N'Jie" <njie.1@osu.edu>, ndella@hotmail.com,
>> Taycae Taylor <tataylor@ubmail.ubalt.edu>,
>> Baboucar Sallah <lamtoro@aol.com>
>>
>>
>>
>-----------------------------------
>N'Deye Marie N'Jie =20
>Graduate Research Associate
>The Ohio State University
>Rm 260 Agricultural Engineering Bldg
>590 Woody Hayes Drive
>Columbus, OH 43210
>
>Fax: (614)292-9448
>Phone: (614) 688-3445 (W)
>E-mail: njie.1@osu.edu
>
>
-----------------------------------
N'Deye Marie N'Jie =20
Graduate Research Associate
The Ohio State University
Rm 260 Agricultural Engineering Bldg
590 Woody Hayes Drive
Columbus, OH 43210
Fax: (614)292-9448
Phone: (614) 688-3445 (W)
E-mail: njie.1@osu.edu
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 22:00:50 +0200
From: "Momodou S Sidibeh" <momodou.sidibeh@stockholm.mail.telia.com>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: SV: New and Curious
Message-ID: <199708072001.WAA21545@d1o2.telia.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Bass,
Are you kidding? Of course it is important to go home and do something
useful. But do not all of you and Mr. Grotnes see that being at home in
fact entails even more intense and frequent complains. Is that not what PMJ
is now doing? Yes we are the ones who must ultimately sacrifice to lift up
our country from its mess. But this will not be done PEACEFULLY UNTIL AND
UNLESS WE RESPECT THE RIGHTS OF PEOPLE TO FEEL AFRAID. BREYTENBACH has said
that to believe that one can make better comrades of militants is to
underestimate human nature. I believe that strongly. Let us first try to
alleviate that FEAR.
Sidibeh.
----------
Från: BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
Till: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Ämne: RE: New and Curious
Datum: den 7 augusti 1997 22:03
Not only that,all those Gambians who are now so angry with Mr.Grotnes for
having the audacity to tell them to go home and stop complaining will very
soon start to book for their One-Way trip to Yundum!
Regards Basss!
----------
From: LAURA T RADER[SMTP:LTR6685@owl.forestry.uga.edu]
Sent: 07 ÔÚÈÇä, 1997 15:32
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
Subject: New and Curious
Good Afternoon,
Being new to this mailing list, I don't know what subjects you have
discussed. There is a piece of information that I have been mulling
over for quite some time and I hope that someone can help.
Does anyone know about the oil reserves off the coast of the Gambia?
On the flight during my last visit to the Gambia, I sat next to a man
that apparently was some type of international investor. The man
(whose name escapes me) mentioned to me that there were reserves. He
even went so far as to say that the Gambia was going to become a very
rich country. My first thought was that only a few people and not
the country would become very rich.
This was not the first time that I had heard this information. I
have learned piece mill from different individuals that there were
reserves of oil off of the coast.
Does anyone know if they really exist? If they are marketable, how
can the money stay in the Gambia? Is there an aid organization or
something that can manage this resource and disperse the funds
equally over the Gambia?
If anyone has any information, please let me know. For all I know
there could already be a plan in action. Unfortunately, money is one
of the things that makes the world go around. If this is true it
would be an excellent source of income to the country, not to mention
the jobs it would create.
Thanks and Take Care,
Laura Rader
----------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 16:17:38 -0500
From: hghanim@nusacc.org
To: mmjanneh@utkux.utcc.utk.edu, gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: RE: Folks! Folks!
Message-ID: <TFSMWKIC@nusacc.org>
Who will be responsible for the disbursements of the money??
And the collection??
Why can't you form a group with the help of the local govt. to implement
the idea . I am sure you will get a lot of assistance from the Area
council if the Labor to fix the road is free.
Good luck and keep up the spirit.
I wish I was as energetic as you
Habib
-----Original Message-----
From: mmjanneh@utkux.utcc.utk.edu
Sent: Thursday, August 07, 1997 1:08 PM
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Folks! Folks!
<< File: ENVELOPE.TXT >>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
ASSALAMU WA ALAIKUM,
>
> I hope you guys will open your ears wider and listen to me.
Just like in The Gambian tradition how the young ones listen to their
elders. I'm not that old, just 79. I think I'm older than must of you.
> Anyway, I used to read those important young generation issues
> you folks debates about, but since things started turning upside down I
> stop. You guys need to make best use of this network for educational
> purposes, not to attack each other personally in this network. What you
> boys think about that?
> Any mathematician around? I see, hear, feel, smell, and taste an
> average of 150 different things a day. Do you boys know the total of
> things I've come across in 79 years of my life? So boys, listen to me
as
> I speak. Let me make it clear, I said listen not worship. Some people
are
> fond of juktapos.
> I need some donations to build the roads in Gunjur, seriously, so
> I need all the true Gambians to sacrifice just $50.00 each from their
> pockets to get the job done. Any mathematician around? For about 2,000
> Gambians wiiling to contribute, do you know the total that would be
> collected? Your donations will be in need when plans are made, but for
now
> keep atleast $50.00 in your pocket incase we decide to begin the
project.
> Building our own nation Folks! What's more important than that?
> Again Folks! Folks! We need to work side by side with our people as
true
> Gambians. I shall be leaving permanently to the Gambia very soon, after
> living in the States for 53 years.
>
> Until later, take care of yourself and each other.
> Momodo Musa
> (Muhammad Mousa)
>
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 16:49:41 -0400
From: Ceesay Soffie <Ceesay_Soffie@ems.prc.com>
To: "'gambia-l@u.washington.edu'" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: FW: Sauerkraut
Message-ID: <C69DB1B2BFFBCF11B5D3000000000001012C2A@Cry1.prc.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
> >>>Subject: Sauerkraut
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>A doctor started having an affair with his nurse, and shortly
> >>>after this started, she announced that she had become pregnant.
> >>>Not wanting his wife to find out, he gave her a large amount of
> >>>money and asked her to go out of the country, to Germany, to wait
> >>>out the pregnancy and have the baby over there.
> >>> "But how will you know when our baby is born?" she asked.
> >>>"Well", he said, "After you've had the baby, just send me a post
> >>>card and write 'sauerkraut' on the back". Not knowing what else
> >>>to do, she took the money and went off to Germany.
> >>>Six months went by and then one day the doctor's wife called him
> >>>at his office. "Dear, you received a very strange post card in
> >>>the mail today", she explained. "I don't understand what it
> means!".
> >>> "Just wait till I get home and I'll read it," he replied.
> >>>Later that evening, the doctor came home and read his post card
> which
> >>> said:
> >>> "SAUERKRAUT, SAUERKRAUT, SAUERKRAUT
> >>> TWO WITH WIENERS, ONE WITHOUT!"
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 17:20:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ancha Bala-Gaye u <bala7500@mach1.wlu.ca>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Cc: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: RE: People are People
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9708071727.A1287-0100000@mach1.wlu.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
I think we should allow Torstein to tell us what he means
by "yuppie" before people start dissing him. Or to allow him to
elaborate, and maybe we can find out the tone in which he said the word.
All these details count. Let's try and comunicate, not miscommunicate.
Ancha.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 19:59:12 -0000
From: "The Gambia-L shadow list" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: People are People
Message-ID: <B0000003176@south.commit.gm>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
This is forwarded from "Torstein Grotnes" <tgr@commit.gm>
(tgr@commit.gm)
> From: hghanim@nusacc.org
> Dave
> That is not a problem . What is a problem is the derogatory remarks that
> creates disunity amongst us.
> We should not forget the old Lord Luggard 's rule during the colonial
> days in Nigeria -divide and rule- with the help of some agents tactics
> similar to Torstein words and actions.
> Peace
> hg
--------------
> >By the way
> >Is the name Torstien a Jewish name?
> >Let's smell the coffee and wake up
> Peace
> hg
Due to the 1 hour delay of e-mail messages(and time zones!)(and a heavy
workload...), I am not able to answer as quickly to Gambia-L mails as some
of you, so I must apology for delayed answers.
Mr. hg.
You are actually giving me to much credit here.
I am a quite ignorant Norwegian at the age of 28, and The Gambia is the
first country I have been in in Africa.
I am not considering myself an intellectual, even less a highly educated
person (No university!).
I do not even know who Lord Luggard is!?
It is new to me that people from Gambia(Africa?) has a problem with people
of Jewish decent, I thought
this thing of disliking people unlike yourself was a "white man's curse"?!
As my brother Jorn comments if the silly idea of a "Jewish world
conspiracy" that never seems to fade in US/UK/Europe
actually is gaining ground among Africans, then that would maybe be the
closest thing "white man" have come to putting
people up against each other these days?!?!
When it comes to me(if there is any interest):
My name is Torstein meaning "Tor"(the Norse thundergod) and "stein" meaning
rock.
It is one of the old Norse Viking names I believe, and I kind of like it.
When it comes to my decent I really don't know, I think I can trace my
Norwegian (European) decent back to
as long as the plague that killed most of Europe.
When I see myself in the mirror I see; blond, half curly hair(my mothers
pride), gray eyes, a heavy body,
white skin(light brown thanks to the Gambian sun!), and I really need a
shave.
When bumsters approach me they try to speak German to me, so I guess I am
like the average "eurotrash" type.
Hope this satisfies anybody's personal interest in me ;-)
Takk for oppmerksomheten,
Torstein
Commit
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 17:43:04 EST5EDT
From: "LAURA T RADER" <LTR6685@owl.forestry.uga.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Debating Skills Le?
Message-ID: <1A129202679@owl.forestry.uga.edu>
I have been following the arguements that were generated from Torstein
Grotnes' letter involving Gambians returning home. In the southern
US we have a phrase for this. It's called stirring up the hornets'
nest.
And, some hornets' nests need to be stirred. This gruff, harsh, down
right rude letter brought up some very valuable points. However, in
turn it brought a range of just as rude, nasty name calling
responses. I'm going to ask that we act like adults and stop this
silly, name calling, mud slinging battle. The US congress would be
proud. If it gets any worse, I may have to call for a committee to
draw up a "Rules and Regulation List for Basic Human Intellectual
Treatment" (That was a joke, laugh please).
The name calling and childish biting commentary will get this List
nowhere. How can we complain about the ineffectiveness of the
government when we cannot civilly discuss a case between ourselves?
This isn't an US against THEM situation. Working together would be
nice?
I was going to go through the individual points in several letters
that I thought needed to be commented upon. That would take FOREVER.
I won't bore you with the details.
In Torstein's original letter, there was a gruff quality to it. Did
anyone ever stop to think that maybe he was trying to get a reaction
out of us? Read the first part of that letter again. He was trying
to get people stirred up (my opinion). If this isn't the case, I can
only remark that he must have been having a bad day. But, his tone
has changed in his responses.
The most encouraging message written was from Pa Musa on the 6 of
August. He mentioned "let us agree to disagree". We need to
Respectfully Disagree with one another.
On a personal note:
As a scientist, I have been trained to think in a specific way. It is
an idological setting but it works. I am trained to put all my ideas
on the table. No matter how silly or intelligent my thoughts, I
share them with my team. In relation to our projects, we hold
nothing back. Some of the world's greatest inventions were mistakes.
Some ideas, the originators discarded only to have someone with
vision pick them up and create their masterpieces. For those
intelligent ideas that I have, we might, as a team, find a better
solution. I do not get offended by the rest of my group not taking
my idea. Out of 100 wrongs, you might get a right. For my silly
ideas, whether they are taken or not, at least I know the I have
tried at every possible angle.
For our List, let's put all of our ideas down. Keep the
negativity to a repectful minimum. Don't be so critical
of your neighbor's ideas. And don't be afraid to mention an idea,
either. Development depends on our open minds (hearts) and a forum
to express ideas. That's what this whole list is about, right?
Now that I've bored everyone to tears... I'll close.
Have a good night.
Laura Rader
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 20:13:39 -0400
From: Latir Downes-Thomas <latir@earthlink.net>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Debating Skills Le?
Message-ID: <33EA64B3.ECE35452@earthlink.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
LAURA T RADER wrote:
>
> I have been following the arguements that were generated from Torstein
> Grotnes' letter involving Gambians returning home. In the southern
> US we have a phrase for this. It's called stirring up the hornets'
> nest.
[...]
> For our List, let's put all of our ideas down. Keep the
> negativity to a repectful minimum. Don't be so critical
> of your neighbor's ideas. And don't be afraid to mention an idea,
> either. Development depends on our open minds (hearts) and a forum
> to express ideas. That's what this whole list is about, right?
>
> Now that I've bored everyone to tears... I'll close.
> Have a good night.
Here, here! Well said.
Latir Gheran
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 22:58:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: EStew68064@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: LA LA LA LA LA
Message-ID: <970807225723_563012613@emout19.mail.aol.com>
Dear List Members:
There has been so much discussion about important issues involving The GAmbia
-that I am glad I posed the question "What is the definition of La La?"
Although, I must say, I always saw The Gambia List primarily as a vehicle
members used for news, political issues, how best to help The Gambia etc.
But I must say, I felt a little bad about it when someone criticised the
initial topics the question generated...possible meanings for "la la, and
then later, discussions about linguistics, history and myth. I felt
intimidated to write back and thank those of you who did take a few moments
out of your time trying to solve the larger issues that we are all concerned
about...yes, even me a toubab, I am concerned. I care. My son and my family
are in Gambia, and The Gambia means everything to me.
Is it not o..k for Gambians to be academic, to think about linguistic and
cultural origins, myth and history? Is it not important that this kind of
knowledge also gets handed down to the children? If so, it is these people
who keep this information alive. I do not think that because Gambians discuss
these things, it means they do not also discuss politics, the brain drain,
and what can we actually DO to make necessary changes? Although personally, I
refrain from too much input on these very important topics as I am an adopted
Gambian, only, and further, most of you Gambia List members are Gambiams who
know much more than I do about all this.
Anyway, thank you all who helped with my question and I'm sorry if it
offended anyone. ( Actually, it was not my question, but a friend who asked
me to post it.)
By the way, speaking of important topics, I hear that the rains are very
poor this year. At least, so far. What can be done to help this?
Long Live and Peace to The GAmbia!
Liz Stewart Fatti
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 07:19:52 +-300
From: BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
To: "'gambia-l@u.washington.edu'" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: RE: Debating Skills Le?
Message-ID: <01BCA3CB.792FDE00@dilb.qatar.net.qa>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BCA3CB.79377F20"
------ =_NextPart_000_01BCA3CB.79377F20
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
You are absolutely right!
Keep up the good work down there!
=09
Regards Basss!
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
For our List, let's put all of our ideas down. Keep the=20
negativity to a repectful minimum. Don't be so critical=20
of your neighbor's ideas. And don't be afraid to mention an idea,=20
either. Development depends on our open minds (hearts) and a forum=20
to express ideas. That's what this whole list is about, right? =20
Now that I've bored everyone to tears... I'll close.
Have a good night.
Laura Rader
----------
From: LAURA T RADER[SMTP:LTR6685@owl.forestry.uga.edu]
Sent: 07 =D4=DA=C8=C7=E4, 1997 20:43
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
Subject: Debating Skills Le?
Laura Rader
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 23:04:14 PDT
From: "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com>
To: kolls567@qatar.net.qa, gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: RE: New and Curious
Message-ID: <199708080604.XAA17979@f50.hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Bass,
So you think that the barking of a gray-eyed blond will cause some
people to pack and head home......
Get real!!!
Jainaba.
>
>Not only that,all those Gambians who are now so angry with Mr.Grotnes =
>for having the audacity to tell them to go home and stop complaining =
>will very soon start to book for their One-Way trip to Yundum!
>
> Regards Basss!
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 00:03:51 PDT
From: "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com>
To: bala7500@mach1.wlu.ca, gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: RE: People are People
Message-ID: <199708080703.AAA27223@f42.hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Ancha,
There is no reason for waiting.....the meaning can easily be infered
from the context of his message. Remember, we are all adults and hence
can read between the lines.
If the Blond one cannot handle driving a pick-up truck beside a brother
in a mercedes, that's his headache!!!! I can't understand why he thinks
he is doing Gambians a favour....a mere ISP:-)
Oh well, I think it's time I move on.
Best wishes,
Jainaba.
>I think we should allow Torstein to tell us what he means
>by "yuppie" before people start dissing him. Or to allow him to
>elaborate, and maybe we can find out the tone in which he said the
word.
>All these details count. Let's try and comunicate, not miscommunicate.
> Ancha.
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 11:34:11 +0200
From: Andrea Klumpp <klumpp@kar.dec.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: People are People
Message-ID: <33EAE813.20DF@kar.dec.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Jainaba Diallo wrote:
> Ancha,
>
> There is no reason for waiting.....the meaning can easily be infered
> from the context of his message. Remember, we are all adults and hence
> can read between the lines.
Oh no, please, let's not start reading between the lines. This is
exactly what happened - misinterpretation. We have to take each other
like we express ourselves because we have no background of personal
knowledge or whatsoever to base interpretations on. Why not trying to be
clear in our postings and why not asking, if we feel that there's
something hidden between the lines or not clear?
I swallowed my comments concerning hg's reaction on Torsteins mail, as
he (hg) pressed the emergency stop. But they were not as peaceful as
Tors reaction! Cool!
The same applies to Lauras mail. Good stuff. Just wait for my silly
ideas, I have alway tried to seperate them from the good ones but seems
like there's no reason to hide them and to be ashamed of the rubbish.
;-)))
Fortunately last day's tone is not common Gambia_L style. And
fortunately it raised a healthy discussion.
Cheers, Andrea
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 13:14:54 +-300
From: BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
To: "'gambia-l@u.washington.edu'" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: RE: New and Curious
Message-ID: <01BCA3FD.124079C0@dijk.qatar.net.qa>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BCA3FD.12481AE0"
------ =_NextPart_000_01BCA3FD.12481AE0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
No,I don't.I was referring to the rumours about the potential oil =
reserves along the Gambian coast.I am getting real,alright,because I now =
know that some gambians would not want their dead bodies to sent towards =
that little known West African country.
Regards Basss!
----------
From: Jainaba Diallo[SMTP:jai_diallo@hotmail.com]
Sent: 08 =D4=DA=C8=C7=E4, 1997 9:04
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
Subject: RE: New and Curious
Bass,
So you think that the barking of a gray-eyed blond will cause some=20
people to pack and head home......
Get real!!!
Jainaba.
>
>Not only that,all those Gambians who are now so angry with Mr.Grotnes =
=3D
>for having the audacity to tell them to go home and stop complaining =
=3D
>will very soon start to book for their One-Way trip to Yundum!
>
> Regards Basss!
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 05:36:15 +0100
From: "The Gambia-L shadow list" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Sauerkraut
Message-ID: <B0000003235@south.commit.gm>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
This is forwarded from "Pa Musa Jallow" <pmj@commit.gm>
(pmj@commit.gm)
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha
thanks for lighting up the mood Siffie
pmj
----------
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 13:23:50 +-300
From: BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
To: "'gambia-l@u.washington.edu'" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: RE: People are People
Message-ID: <01BCA3FE.522AF960@dijk.qatar.net.qa>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BCA3FE.52329A80"
------ =_NextPart_000_01BCA3FE.52329A80
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
You are absolutely right! It is a rule here if you are not quite clear =
as to the meaning of a person,just as Ancha suggested,you must seek =
clarification.As any Semanticist(student of meaning) would tell =
you,reading between the lines is the fast tract towards outright =
misunderstanding!
So,as always, keep up your good work down there!
Regards Bassss!=20
----------
From: Andrea Klumpp[SMTP:klumpp@kar.dec.com]
Sent: 08 =D4=DA=C8=C7=E4, 1997 12:34
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
Subject: Re: People are People
Jainaba Diallo wrote:
> Ancha,
>=20
> There is no reason for waiting.....the meaning can easily be infered
> from the context of his message. Remember, we are all adults and hence
> can read between the lines.
Oh no, please, let's not start reading between the lines. This is
exactly what happened - misinterpretation. We have to take each other
like we express ourselves because we have no background of personal
knowledge or whatsoever to base interpretations on. Why not trying to be
clear in our postings and why not asking, if we feel that there's
something hidden between the lines or not clear?
I swallowed my comments concerning hg's reaction on Torsteins mail, as
he (hg) pressed the emergency stop. But they were not as peaceful as
Tors reaction! Cool!
The same applies to Lauras mail. Good stuff. Just wait for my silly
ideas, I have alway tried to seperate them from the good ones but seems
like there's no reason to hide them and to be ashamed of the rubbish.=20
;-))) =20
Fortunately last day's tone is not common Gambia_L style. And
fortunately it raised a healthy discussion.
Cheers, Andrea
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 14:14:34 +-300
From: BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
To: "'gambia-l@u.washington.edu'" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: RE: New and Curious
Message-ID: <01BCA405.6BF45E20@dibi.qatar.net.qa>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BCA405.6BFBFF40"
------ =_NextPart_000_01BCA405.6BFBFF40
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
But this will not be done PEACEFULLY UNTIL AND
UNLESS WE RESPECT THE RIGHTS OF PEOPLE TO FEEL AFRAID. BREYTENBACH has =
said
that to believe that one can make better comrades of militants is to
underestimate human nature. I believe that strongly. Let us first try to
alleviate that FEAR.
=20
Sidibeh.
That is exactly my point! Its quite human and natural that all of us =
should be scared of going to a place,our home notwithstanding, where =
your basic standard of living has an enormous potential of falling down =
drastically.That is given, and I can't agree with you more on that.But I =
think the kind of violent sentiments expressed against the messenger =
here whose only crime is to inform the children in far away land that =
MUM is very sick and very badly needs her children to be around for her =
to recover - such screamings for the blood of the messenger,instead of =
trying to deal with the content and implication of the message,such =
irrational and disproportionate outburst is NOT fear,it is much more =
than that,it is Paranoid.And Paranoid ,as all of us know,has a very long =
chapter in Abnormal Psychology.And I think there is something cruelly =
humorous about fearing not of going home itself,but as Corad has =
said,"the very idea of it".This is why I think this whole Becketan Farce =
is hilarious! That is why I am laughing.
Regards Bassss!=20
----------
From: Momodou S Sidibeh[SMTP:momodou.sidibeh@stockholm.mail.telia.com]
Sent: 07 =D4=DA=C8=C7=E4, 1997 23:00
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
Subject: SV: New and Curious=20
Bass,=20
Are you kidding? Of course it is important to go home and do something
useful. But do not all of you and Mr. Grotnes see that being at home in
fact entails even more intense and frequent complains. Is that not what =
PMJ
is now doing? Yes we are the ones who must ultimately sacrifice to lift =
up
our country from its mess. But this will not be done PEACEFULLY UNTIL =
AND
UNLESS WE RESPECT THE RIGHTS OF PEOPLE TO FEEL AFRAID. BREYTENBACH has =
said
that to believe that one can make better comrades of militants is to
underestimate human nature. I believe that strongly. Let us first try to
alleviate that FEAR.
=20
Sidibeh.
----------
Fr=E5n: BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
Till: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
=C4mne: RE: New and Curious=20
Datum: den 7 augusti 1997 22:03
Not only that,all those Gambians who are now so angry with Mr.Grotnes =
for
having the audacity to tell them to go home and stop complaining will =
very
soon start to book for their One-Way trip to Yundum!
Regards Basss!
----------
From: LAURA T RADER[SMTP:LTR6685@owl.forestry.uga.edu]
Sent: 07 =D4=DA=C8=C7=E4, 1997 15:32
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
Subject: New and Curious=20
Good Afternoon,
Being new to this mailing list, I don't know what subjects you have=20
discussed. There is a piece of information that I have been mulling=20
over for quite some time and I hope that someone can help. =20
Does anyone know about the oil reserves off the coast of the Gambia? =20
On the flight during my last visit to the Gambia, I sat next to a man=20
that apparently was some type of international investor. The man=20
(whose name escapes me) mentioned to me that there were reserves. He=20
even went so far as to say that the Gambia was going to become a very=20
rich country. My first thought was that only a few people and not=20
the country would become very rich.
This was not the first time that I had heard this information. I=20
have learned piece mill from different individuals that there were=20
reserves of oil off of the coast.
Does anyone know if they really exist? If they are marketable, how=20
can the money stay in the Gambia? Is there an aid organization or=20
something that can manage this resource and disperse the funds=20
equally over the Gambia?
If anyone has any information, please let me know. For all I know=20
there could already be a plan in action. Unfortunately, money is one=20
of the things that makes the world go around. If this is true it=20
would be an excellent source of income to the country, not to mention=20
the jobs it would create.
Thanks and Take Care,
Laura Rader=20
----------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 05:42:46 +0100
From: "The Gambia-L shadow list" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: unity for the good of Gambia
Message-ID: <B0000003236@south.commit.gm>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
This is forwarded from "Pa Musa Jallow" <pmj@commit.gm>
(pmj@commit.gm)
Brother Ghanim,
whether Torstein is a jewish name or musa is an arabic or negro name has no
relevance to our discourse..you started out so well above the fray
so please do not let the ugly head of bigotry rear its head..please let us
not indulge in
it..and for the record..i think Torstein Grotnes is pure nordic aryan...no
just kidding..despite the vehemence folks..some good honest discourse came
through..let us keep it cool.
Bass ...I admire the way you have kept cool all through..and Liz
Fatti..La-La has evolved into a super debate..la-la-la
shalom oops salaam..jamaa jamm..it is all the same ....peace
pmj
----------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 13:41:45 +0200
From: momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: LA-LA-LA
Message-ID: <19970808124350.AAA55448@LOCALNAME>
On 6 Aug 97 at 23:04, Ancha Bala-Gaye u wrote:
> this I did not know and it will be awesome (as the Canadians say
> instead of great) if some of the ideas on this list could be read at
> home.
I have just received the FOROYAA issue of 31 July - 7 August, 1997
and have seen that they have started publishing some of the issues
discussed here on Gambia-l.
I think its great because ordinary Gambians without the possibility
of having a computer moreover Internet, now have the chance to
read some concerns and debates raised here.
The title of the article is:
INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY REVOLUTIONIZES RELATION BETWEEN LITERATE
GAMBIANS.
Once again, welcome on board and we are still looking forward to your
contributions FOROYAA!!!!
Momodou Camara
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 21:59:07 -0000
From: "The Gambia-L shadow list" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Encourage Young Gambian Businesses
Message-ID: <B0000003204@south.commit.gm>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
This is forwarded from "Torstein Grotnes" <tgr@commit.gm>
(tgr@commit.gm)
> From: Isatou Secka <isatou@Glue.umd.edu>
>
> What exactly do you mean by your statement "some new Gambian yuppies"?
I come from a social democratic country and I am influenced by this.
Norwegians tend to dislike showcasing and unnecessary display of wealth.
We had a couple of booming years in the late 80ties when everybody could
loan money for nothing and nobody seemed to think about tomorrow.
The trend for these young and careless boys and girls (yuppies) was to
drive nice cars , have
long "important" discussions on their fancy cellulars, and just generally
spend a lot of money.
What happened at the end of the day was that banks were going bankrupt, and
the
ordinary taxpayer/moneysaver had to take the loss.
A loss of several Billion NKr(~1-2 Billion US$?!?).
In Norway, most people have houses and cars and a steady income, so the
showcasing
went on without to much noise, people did not care to much(until the bill
came of course!)
--------------------
When I go to supermarkets on Kairaba to buy some food I am approached by
beggars, cripples,
and other fragile parts of the society asking me for some few Dalasis.
This is the rule where ever there is a supermarket/bank etc.
Parked beside these people are nice, shiny expensive Mercedes'.
Inside the air-conditioned car, sits nice, perfectly dressed ladies and
gents behind dark sunglasses,
it shines from the gold rings on their fingers and they have deep
conversations on their expensive cellulars.
Nobody from the fragile groups I mentioned seems to hang around these cars,
instead they wave to
me and try to greet me friendly hoping for a Dalasi.
Now this is for me a gross picture.
I do not say that everybody is a "yuppie" but I tend to wonder how people
can display this kind of
wealth when there is so much suffering in the country they are making the
money in.
Yours,
Torstein
Commit
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 08:46:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: ASJanneh@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Encourage Young Gambian Businesses
Message-ID: <970808084622_-1070201983@emout06.mail.aol.com>
Gambia-L:
A brief visit to any major American city would paint a similar picture to
what Tornstein saw in The Gambia; gross inequities between different segments
of the society. It's not unusual to find homeless and hungry people in US
cities that also harbour millionaires and, even, billionaires. Perhaps a key
difference may be that we (The Gambia) have the "affluence of the [very] few,
and the misery of the many."
On another note, why get offended by a call to return home? Afterall, no one
is offering a free ticket yet! Staying engaged in Gambian affairs is a
collective responsibility, but the decision to return is an individual one.
I assume each of us would arrive at that decision after carefully assessing
many factors: family responsibilities both in The Gambia and abroad, the
political situation in The Gambia, the bureaucratic culture, and so on.
I decided to return after a decade in the USA, giving up my teaching position
at the University of Tennessee in 1993. I was in such a hurry to return to
The Gambia that I completed my programs (BA, MA, PhD) in seven years. But
after an eight month stint (at External Affairs & MDI), I gave up and
returned to the US. Others have stayed despite the seemingly insurmountable
obstacles; again, an individual matter. So, lighten up and keep the
discourse civil.
Salaam!
Amadou Scattred Janneh
BTW, the "79-year old" contributor happens to be my younger brother!
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 9:04:53 -0500
From: hghanim@nusacc.org
To: bala7500@mach1.wlu.ca, gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: RE: People are People
Message-ID: <TFSHFAWU@nusacc.org>
I agree Ancha but if he is wrong he must extend his apologies to those of
us who took this with offense.
We are just trying to check and correct each other. No one is perfect so
he must have slipped on this one.
Best regards
Habib
-----Original Message-----
From: bala7500@mach1.wlu.ca
Sent: Thursday, August 07, 1997 5:22 PM
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: RE: People are People
<< File: ENVELOPE.TXT >>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
I think we should allow Torstein to tell us what he means
by "yuppie" before people start dissing him. Or to allow him to
elaborate, and maybe we can find out the tone in which he said the word.
All these details count. Let's try and comunicate, not miscommunicate.
Ancha.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 9:06:17 -0500
From: hghanim@nusacc.org
To: gambia-l@commit.gm, gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: RE: People are People
Message-ID: <TFSHFDTU@nusacc.org>
Let us close this case now .
It just an expression .Lord Luggard was one of the British Colonialist
that made the division of Africa as a strategy to split tribes and
families into different countries and regions in order to CONTROL them.
In Gambia we have a similar case. Some villages in Gambia have their
markets in Senegal and the school in Gambia although they are the same
tribe , family etc.(Casamance is a good example) Almost all are Jolas but
the French and the British artificially divided it to give them separate
identities.!!
That was what I meant. Lord (laugh) Luggard used agents from Europe and
sadly even the Africans to accomplish his mission.
But the point is well taken and let us proceed forgetting this .
Basss please mediate.
hg
-----Original Message-----
From: gambia-l@commit.gm
Sent: Thursday, August 07, 1997 5:31 PM
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: People are People
<< File: ENVELOPE.TXT >>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
This is forwarded from "Torstein Grotnes" <tgr@commit.gm>
(tgr@commit.gm)
> From: hghanim@nusacc.org
> Dave
> That is not a problem . What is a problem is the derogatory remarks
that
> creates disunity amongst us.
> We should not forget the old Lord Luggard 's rule during the colonial
> days in Nigeria -divide and rule- with the help of some agents tactics
> similar to Torstein words and actions.
> Peace
> hg
--------------
> >By the way
> >Is the name Torstien a Jewish name?
> >Let's smell the coffee and wake up
> Peace
> hg
Due to the 1 hour delay of e-mail messages(and time zones!)(and a heavy
workload...), I am not able to answer as quickly to Gambia-L mails as
some
of you, so I must apology for delayed answers.
Mr. hg.
You are actually giving me to much credit here.
I am a quite ignorant Norwegian at the age of 28, and The Gambia is the
first country I have been in in Africa.
I am not considering myself an intellectual, even less a highly educated
person (No university!).
I do not even know who Lord Luggard is!?
It is new to me that people from Gambia(Africa?) has a problem with
people
of Jewish decent, I thought
this thing of disliking people unlike yourself was a "white man's
curse"?!
As my brother Jorn comments if the silly idea of a "Jewish world
conspiracy" that never seems to fade in US/UK/Europe
actually is gaining ground among Africans, then that would maybe be the
closest thing "white man" have come to putting
people up against each other these days?!?!
When it comes to me(if there is any interest):
My name is Torstein meaning "Tor"(the Norse thundergod) and "stein"
meaning
rock.
It is one of the old Norse Viking names I believe, and I kind of like it.
When it comes to my decent I really don't know, I think I can trace my
Norwegian (European) decent back to
as long as the plague that killed most of Europe.
When I see myself in the mirror I see; blond, half curly hair(my mothers
pride), gray eyes, a heavy body,
white skin(light brown thanks to the Gambian sun!), and I really need a
shave.
When bumsters approach me they try to speak German to me, so I guess I am
like the average "eurotrash" type.
Hope this satisfies anybody's personal interest in me ;-)
Takk for oppmerksomheten,
Torstein
Commit
|
|
|
|
Momodou
Denmark
11513 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2021 : 14:25:39
|
Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 15:14:40 +0100
From: Abdou Gibba <Abdou.Gibba@smr.uib.no>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA
Message-ID: <2.2.32.19970808141440.0071bdbc@golf.uib.no>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA................... It's gone way over the
point. Let's take a break and at least be INTELLECTUALS a little. You wan't
go home - fine, you can't or don't want to go home - fine, but if someone
SUGGEST it to you, no need being personal. Different people (even in our own
selves) mention it under different circumstances but we don't get that far.
Youssou Ndour mentioned it in his "bitimrewe", we all dance our breaths out
to this form of LA "LA LA LA LA...." We all know everyone has his/her own
situation, and the word of returning home, when mentioned is just in the
context of voluntary action.
We could deal with this topic positively like how can we make the
authorities be aware that their are a lot of us (a useful resource Gambia is
loosing) out there who really wan't to go home but due to various
circumstances (which could eventually be taken up) many are caught up in the
midst of "no man's land". The importance of this common problem (both to
individuals and Gambia itself) should be approached as an issue of national
priority. This may raise the authorities' will to establish a
"coming-back-home program" that will encourage many to take some steps.
As I understand from Momomdou Camara, FOROYAA (and may be even the
President's Office) has an awareness of gambia-l, so if we push this
particular button right it may become a politically oriented issue rather
than a mere LA-LA-LA......
A final word, respect for one another is what makes Gambians one big family.
So as Bass, Pa Musa, Andrea, Ancha... and many others have just said, PLEASE
NO NAME CALLING OR LABELING.
Take the weekend to cool down a little - Have a nice WEEKEND y'all.
PEACE!
::::::)))))))))))Abdou Oujimai
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 9:18:32 -0500
From: hghanim@nusacc.org
To: gambia-l@commit.gm, gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: RE: unity for the good of Gambia
Message-ID: <TFSHJIMS@nusacc.org>
Pa Jallow,
That case is now settled
Thanks and Shalom too
Hg
-----Original Message-----
From: gambia-l@commit.gm
Sent: Friday, August 08, 1997 9:04 AM
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: unity for the good of Gambia
<< File: ENVELOPE.TXT >>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
This is forwarded from "Pa Musa Jallow" <pmj@commit.gm>
(pmj@commit.gm)
Brother Ghanim,
whether Torstein is a jewish name or musa is an arabic or negro name has
no
relevance to our discourse..you started out so well above the fray
so please do not let the ugly head of bigotry rear its head..please let
us
not indulge in
it..and for the record..i think Torstein Grotnes is pure nordic
aryan...no
just kidding..despite the vehemence folks..some good honest discourse
came
through..let us keep it cool.
Bass ...I admire the way you have kept cool all through..and Liz
Fatti..La-La has evolved into a super debate..la-la-la
shalom oops salaam..jamaa jamm..it is all the same ....peace
pmj
----------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 9:26:54 -0500
From: hghanim@nusacc.org
To: latir@earthlink.net, gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: RE: Debating Skills Le?
Message-ID: <TFSHMETM@nusacc.org>
Agreed
Habib
-----Original Message-----
From: latir@earthlink.net
Sent: Friday, August 08, 1997 9:06 AM
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Debating Skills Le?
<< File: ENVELOPE.TXT >>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
LAURA T RADER wrote:
>
> I have been following the arguements that were generated from Torstein
> Grotnes' letter involving Gambians returning home. In the southern
> US we have a phrase for this. It's called stirring up the hornets'
> nest.
[...]
> For our List, let's put all of our ideas down. Keep the
> negativity to a repectful minimum. Don't be so critical
> of your neighbor's ideas. And don't be afraid to mention an idea,
> either. Development depends on our open minds (hearts) and a forum
> to express ideas. That's what this whole list is about, right?
>
> Now that I've bored everyone to tears... I'll close.
> Have a good night.
Here, here! Well said.
Latir Gheran
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 15:36:51 +0100
From: Abdou Gibba <Abdou.Gibba@smr.uib.no>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Encourage Young Gambian Businesses
Message-ID: <2.2.32.19970808143651.00709ab4@golf.uib.no>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Mr. A S Janneh! Perfectly said (both the "yuppie" and "go-home" issues - My
exact sentiments.
Thanks and nice Weekend.
Abdou Oujimai
At 08:46 08/08/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Gambia-L:
>
>A brief visit to any major American city would paint a similar picture to
>what Tornstein saw in The Gambia; gross inequities between different segments
>of the society. It's not unusual to find homeless and hungry people in US
>cities that also harbour millionaires and, even, billionaires. Perhaps a key
>difference may be that we (The Gambia) have the "affluence of the [very] few,
>and the misery of the many."
>
>On another note, why get offended by a call to return home? Afterall, no one
>is offering a free ticket yet! Staying engaged in Gambian affairs is a
>collective responsibility, but the decision to return is an individual one.
> I assume each of us would arrive at that decision after carefully assessing
>many factors: family responsibilities both in The Gambia and abroad, the
>political situation in The Gambia, the bureaucratic culture, and so on.
>
>I decided to return after a decade in the USA, giving up my teaching position
>at the University of Tennessee in 1993. I was in such a hurry to return to
>The Gambia that I completed my programs (BA, MA, PhD) in seven years. But
>after an eight month stint (at External Affairs & MDI), I gave up and
>returned to the US. Others have stayed despite the seemingly insurmountable
>obstacles; again, an individual matter. So, lighten up and keep the
>discourse civil.
>
>Salaam!
>Amadou Scattred Janneh
>
>BTW, the "79-year old" contributor happens to be my younger brother!
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 10:02:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Malanding S. Jaiteh" <msjaiteh@mtu.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Cc: msjaiteh@mtu.edu (Malanding S. Jaiteh)
Subject: Re: Encourage Young Gambian Businesses
Message-ID: <199708081402.KAA15924@aspen>
Content-Type: text
>
> This is forwarded from "Torstein Grotnes" <tgr@commit.gm>
> (tgr@commit.gm)
>
>
> --------------------
> When I go to supermarkets on Kairaba to buy some food I am approached by
> beggars, cripples,
> and other fragile parts of the society asking me for some few Dalasis.
> This is the rule where ever there is a supermarket/bank etc.
> Parked beside these people are nice, shiny expensive Mercedes'.
> Inside the air-conditioned car, sits nice, perfectly dressed ladies and
> gents behind dark sunglasses,
> it shines from the gold rings on their fingers and they have deep
> conversations on their expensive cellulars.
> Nobody from the fragile groups I mentioned seems to hang around these cars,
> instead they wave to
> me and try to greet me friendly hoping for a Dalasi.
> Now this is for me a gross picture.
> I do not say that everybody is a "yuppie" but I tend to wonder how people
> can display this kind of
> wealth when there is so much suffering in the country they are making the
> money in.
>
> Yours,
> Torstein
> Commit
>
Torstein, thats sounds really more like it. Its no doubt a shame!
Malanding jaiteh
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 16:08:09 +0200
From: Andrea Klumpp <klumpp@kar.dec.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: GambiaNet Bylaws
Message-ID: <33EB2849.BC3@kar.dec.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Latir,
first of all thanks for re-posting Numkundas Mail from June, which I
actually missed and sorry for the delay of my reply. In that mail I
found, however no sign that other areas than bringing the Observer
online were targeted by the group and that was the reason for my
inquiry. I understand that you planned to widen the field of action,
such that further activities can be easily implemented.
With decentralization in my mind, I would like to suggest that we don't
blow up the organisational structure of the list, but work in small
teams which concentrate on different tasks plus one finance board.
The tasks you listed:
1. Provide for the dissemination of informational, educational and
literary material from and about the Gambia to the Internet and other
media.
2. Bring and share information about the social, economic and political
developments in The Gambia.
THATS THE PURPOSE OF THE LIST, ANYWAY
3. Provide a forum for exchanging ideas and for discussions on
matters related to the Gambia
SEE ABOVE; THATS ALREADY DONE BY GAMBIA-L AND ITS RUNNERS (WHO ARE ALL?
MEMBERS OF GAMBIANET; I GUESS)
4. Promote matters related to the Gambia and Gambian or African
cultural heritage.
SEE ABOVE, ALREADY PERFORMED BY GAMBIA_l
5. Raise funds for educational purposes in the Gambia and the Gambian
diaspora.
THATS WHAT THE EDUCATION COMITEE IS ABOUT - ADMITTEDLY SLOWLY BUT ON ITS
WAY, dont worry, Abdou and others ;-)
6. Include other activities related to Gambia agreed upon by the Board
of Directors.
????
7. Operate on a politically impartial basis and shall not render
support or endorsement to, nor shall it denounce, any political group or
party in The Gambia and abroad.
RELIGOUSLY NOT AFFILIATED?
Can you see, why I am still a bit confused? Most of the tasks of
GambiaNet are already performed by Gambia_L, which indicates that a
transformation of the latter is underway, another task has already been
addressed by other people.
I'm sure we're going to solve this, thanks a lot for your efforts, you
guys have been incredibly busy.
Happy weekend to all of you,
Andrea
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 10:17:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: Salifuj@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Encourage Young Gambian Businesses
Message-ID: <970808101438_1384524887@emout15.mail.aol.com>
In a message dated 97-08-08 08:47:42 EDT, Amadou Janneh wrote:
<< Gambia-L:
I decided to return after a decade in the USA, giving up my teaching
position
at the University of Tennessee in 1993.... But after an eight month stint
(at External Affairs & MDI), I gave up and returned to the US. Others have
stayed despite the seemingly insurmountable obstacles; again, an individual
matter.
>>
Well, said Doc!....this is exactly what I meant in my message. Some of us
have already been there and experienced the life style. The truth is, he who
wants to go back home will eventually do so with pleasure. However, the
choice should be his alone and must be made wisely.
Like I said before, abroad are many Gambian professionals (Doctors,
Engineers, Lawyers, entrepreneurs... etc) like youself who want nothing more
than to be part of the Gambia.
What necessary steps should we take to address such an issue??
-Sal
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 10:20:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: Salifuj@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Gambia travel site (fwd)
Message-ID: <970808102019_-1774423846@emout03.mail.aol.com>
In a message dated 97-08-07 18:37:27 EDT, you wrote:
<<
Gambia-L:
Here's some travel information on the Gambia from Spector Travel:
>Visit our site @ www.spectortravel.com
>>
Thanks for the info...Ms. Njie....their deals seem competitive.
-Sal
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 15:23:24 +0100 (BST)
From: "M. Njie" <mn015@students.stir.ac.uk>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Cc: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: A Gambian National Language
Message-ID: <Pine.HPP.3.91.970808151754.18896F-100000@whale.students.stir.ac.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Omar,
I think I understand your position. Therefore, there is no
need to reply. You may of course do so if you feel that you
must. Have a nice weekend, and good luck with your dessertation.
Momodou
On
Thu, 7 Aug 1997, O BALDEH wrote:
> Les Momodous (Sidibeh, Njie and in particular Camara),
>
> I will give you as much replies as possible. Presently I am busy
> completing my dissertation and when I am finished be sure the Verb, Noun,
> someadjectives and just a handful of adverbs, decorated with few
> pounctuation marks will say to you jaama ngen fanaa.
>
> Susan, gracias for the inforpeche.
>
> In the meantime, Camara manso na da sa!
>
> Ciao; gambiankol buka kumbo......
>
> Omar Baldeh
>
>
> On Thu, 7 Aug 1997 momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk wrote:
>
> > Gambia-l,
> > I would like to recommend " BLACK AFRICA: The Economic and
> > Cultural Basis for a Federated State." By Cheikh Anta Diop, to any
> > one interested in how linguistic unification is possible.
> >
> > I sent a personal message to Mr. Baldeh asking him if he thinks that
> > the great Cheikh Anta Diop thought like a European and I am
> > still waiting for his answer.
> >
> > On 1 Aug 97 at 15:02, O BALDEH wrote:
> > > MOMODOU you are in Europe but you are not a
> > >EUROPEAN. So when you are asked about our national language you
> > >should go back to the african context and answer the question do not
> > >answer it while thinking in the european way!
> >
> > Mr. Baldeh, Cheikh Anta Diop even went further to demonstrate that
> > ..."in due time it will be possible appropriately to choose one of
> > the major African tongues and promote it to the level of sole
> > governmental and cultural language for the entire continent..."
> >
> > He further mentions ".. The choice of such a language will have to be
> > made by a competent interterritorial commission imbued with deep
> > patriotic feeling foreswearing any hidden chauvinism.."
> >
> > He also talked about the choice of Language on a Local scale in the
> > Framework of a given Territory.
> >
> > As I said before, I am not a linguist but one who is curios.
> >
> > I don't agree with those who argue that we in Gambia have English as
> > the official language and should stick to that because it is spoken
> > world wide. Do we need to communicate here in English if we had one
> > of our "national languages" as the Gambian National language?
> >
> >
> > Susan, thanks for explaining to Mr. Baldeh the meaning of "Peace
> > corps".
> >
> > Momodou Camara
> >
> >
> >
> > *******************************************************
> > http://home3.inet.tele.dk/mcamara
> >
> > **"Start by doing what's necessary, then what's
> > possible and suddenly you are doing the impossible"***
> >
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 12:40:48 -0400
From: Ceesay Soffie <Ceesay_Soffie@ems.prc.com>
To: "'GAMBIA-L@U.WASHINGTON.EDU'" <GAMBIA-L@U.WASHINGTON.EDU>
Subject: FW: story for the day
Message-ID: <C69DB1B2BFFBCF11B5D300000000000152DD09@Cry1.prc.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
The Animal School
-----------------------------------------------------------------
A group of animals got together in the forest one day and
decided to start a school. There was a rabbit, a bird, a
squirrel, a fish, and an eel. They formed a board of education
and tried to create a curriculum. The rabbit insisted that
burrowing in the ground be in the curriculum. The fish insisted
on swimming. The squirrel insisted that perpendicular tree
climbing be included, and the bird wanted flying.
They put all these courses together and wrote a curriculum
guide.
Then they insisted that all of the animals take all of the
subjects.
Although the rabbit was getting an A in burrowing, perpendicular
tree climbing was a real problem for him; he kept falling over
backwards. Pretty soon he became brain damaged from these falls,
and he couldn't burrow well any more. He found that instead of
making an A in burrowing, he was making a C. And, of course, he
always made an F in perpendicular climbing.
The bird was really beautiful at flying, but when it came to
burrowing in the ground, he couldn't do it so well. He kept
breaking his beak and wings. Pretty soon he was making a C in
flying as well as an F in burrowing. And he had a very bad time
with perpendicular tree climbing.
The squirrel was terrific at perpendicular tree climbing, but
was so afraid of the water that he failed swimming altogether.
The fish was easily the best in swimming class, but he wouldn't
get out of the water to come to any of the other classes.
The valedictorian of the class was a mentally retarded eel who
did everything in a halfway fashion. But the teachers were happy
because everybody was taking all the subjects in their
broad-based educational curriculum.
(From Everything You've Heard is Wrong by Tony Campolo, Dallas:
Word, 1992, pg.130)
Have you ever felt like the animals in that school? Have you
ever been in a situation where you are supposed to do things that you
are not equipped to do?
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 14:06:45 -0400
From: Latir Downes-Thomas <latir@earthlink.net>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Encourage Young Gambian Businesses
Message-ID: <33EB6035.7B170204@earthlink.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Torstein Grotnes wrote:
> When I go to supermarkets on Kairaba to buy some food I am approached by
> beggars, cripples,
> and other fragile parts of the society asking me for some few Dalasis.
> This is the rule where ever there is a supermarket/bank etc.
> Parked beside these people are nice, shiny expensive Mercedes'.
> Inside the air-conditioned car, sits nice, perfectly dressed ladies and
> gents behind dark sunglasses,
> it shines from the gold rings on their fingers and they have deep
> conversations on their expensive cellulars.
> Nobody from the fragile groups I mentioned seems to hang around these cars,
> instead they wave to
> me and try to greet me friendly hoping for a Dalasi.
> Now this is for me a gross picture.
> I do not say that everybody is a "yuppie" but I tend to wonder how people
> can display this kind of
> wealth when there is so much suffering in the country they are making the
> money in.
I'm not sure I get the point here. I you suggesting altruism here or
are you upset because these people approach you instead of the Gambians?
For the latter, I can tell you that they probably believe that you are
some happy go lucky, tourist perhaps, and probably much wealthier
(probably true) than the others you mentioned who are probably living
beyond their means anyway.
In my own informal survey, I have found that amongst most of our
neighbours, you will find that Gambians display their wealth the least.
You will also find that Gambians are quite generous, I believe at times
too generous. I am sure we can all think of friends or family members
who have seen their generosity get the better of them.
When I was younger and found myself in the situation you mentioned, I
would take out a dalasi coin and give it to the first one to approach
me. Others would soon follow and I would say in Wollof that I have no
more. I would then turn to whomever I was with and say in English,
"Next time don't vote for Jawara and maybe your government will do what
it's supposed to."
The point is that if there should be blame here it should really go to
the government. Last year they spent over 15 million dalasi to build an
unstable monument, funds that could have gone a long way to help these
poor invalid mendicants.
Of course this reasoning is over simplified but rather than blame the
people for the lifestyle they live, which truly speaking is not all that
excessive, we should look to what the government is doing or can do to
bring about more equity.
One of the solutions that would go along way is the raising of income
tax. I'm not advocating raising income tax rates at this point but the
government should strengthen its mechanism for collecting tax.
Think about all those who rent houses or own taxis. How many of them do
you think actually pay taxes on the income they receive there? Then
again, have you ever tried paying income tax voluntarily? I have and
it's no small feat. It's no wonder that when these commissions go after
allegedly scrupulous individuals and nothing substantial is found,
income tax evasion is the last resort. It always works because most
people with assets that yield income are probably income tax evaders.
It goes without saying that this potential tax revenue could go towards
all sorts of efforts to alleviate the poverty you speak of instead of
helping to pay for the cell phones and the Benz automobiles that trouble
you so.
Peace.
Lat
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 14:09:37 EST5EDT
From: "LAURA T RADER" <LTR6685@owl.forestry.uga.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: RE: People are People
Message-ID: <1B59B6900A5@owl.forestry.uga.edu>
And the hits just keep on coming...
Did I say debating skills le? Maybe it should have been manners le?
By the way, Jainaba, since you want to put everyone in their properly
labeled box, I am also a blond. I'm about 5'5" and have blue eyes.
Does that help you to label me properly? I just want to make sure.
Maybe I should have included that in my introduction to the List.
I apologize for the out of bounds commentary. Had I
Jainaba's personal address I wouldn't have bothered anyone
else with this type of talk. But... at least I didn't call
names.
Everyone have a good weekend.
Laura
> Ancha,
>
> There is no reason for waiting.....the meaning can easily be infered
> from the context of his message. Remember, we are all adults and hence
> can read between the lines.
>
> If the Blond one cannot handle driving a pick-up truck beside a brother
> in a mercedes, that's his headache!!!! I can't understand why he thinks
> he is doing Gambians a favour....a mere ISP:-)
>
> Oh well, I think it's time I move on.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Jainaba.
>
>
> >I think we should allow Torstein to tell us what he means
> >by "yuppie" before people start dissing him. Or to allow him to
> >elaborate, and maybe we can find out the tone in which he said the
> word.
> >All these details count. Let's try and comunicate, not miscommunicate.
> > Ancha.
>
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 16:04:02 +-300
From: BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
To: "'gambia-l@u.washington.edu'" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: RE: Encourage Young Gambian Businesses
Message-ID: <01BCA43F.D9CFCB20@ddav.qatar.net.qa>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BCA43F.D9D8F2E0"
------ =_NextPart_000_01BCA43F.D9D8F2E0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Now this is for me a gross picture.
I do not say that everybody is a "yuppie" but I tend to wonder how =
people
can display this kind of=20
wealth when there is so much suffering in the country they are making =
the
money in.=20
Yours,
Torstein
Commit
It has a Name:it is Calousness and a total lack of compassion.That is =
what it is.It is a symptom of the black person who is in that =
no-mans-land that exists between the Humane African culture and the =
Humanist western tradition.He has already left the former behind and =
will apparently never grasp the essence of the latter.Maybe Franz =
Fanon's writing should be obligatory to every Gambian school child from =
now on.
Regards Bassss!
----------
From: The Gambia-L shadow list[SMTP:gambia-l@commit.gm]
Sent: 08 =D4=DA=C8=C7=E4, 1997 0:59
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
Subject: Re: Encourage Young Gambian Businesses=20
This is forwarded from "Torstein Grotnes" <tgr@commit.gm>
(tgr@commit.gm)
> From: Isatou Secka <isatou@Glue.umd.edu>
>=20
> What exactly do you mean by your statement "some new Gambian yuppies"?
I come from a social democratic country and I am influenced by this.
Norwegians tend to dislike showcasing and unnecessary display of wealth.
We had a couple of booming years in the late 80ties when everybody could
loan money for nothing and nobody seemed to think about tomorrow.
The trend for these young and careless boys and girls (yuppies) was to
drive nice cars , have=20
long "important" discussions on their fancy cellulars, and just =
generally
spend a lot of money.
What happened at the end of the day was that banks were going bankrupt, =
and
the
ordinary taxpayer/moneysaver had to take the loss.
A loss of several Billion NKr(~1-2 Billion US$?!?).=20
In Norway, most people have houses and cars and a steady income, so the
showcasing
went on without to much noise, people did not care to much(until the =
bill
came of course!)
--------------------
When I go to supermarkets on Kairaba to buy some food I am approached by
beggars, cripples,
and other fragile parts of the society asking me for some few Dalasis.
This is the rule where ever there is a supermarket/bank etc.
Parked beside these people are nice, shiny expensive Mercedes'.
Inside the air-conditioned car, sits nice, perfectly dressed ladies and
gents behind dark sunglasses,=20
it shines from the gold rings on their fingers and they have deep
conversations on their expensive cellulars.
Nobody from the fragile groups I mentioned seems to hang around these =
cars,
instead they wave to
me and try to greet me friendly hoping for a Dalasi.
Now this is for me a gross picture.
I do not say that everybody is a "yuppie" but I tend to wonder how =
people
can display this kind of=20
wealth when there is so much suffering in the country they are making =
the
money in.=20
Yours,
Torstein
Commit
=20
=20
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 03:33:17 +0900 (JST)
From: binta@iuj.ac.jp
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Encourage Young Gambian Businesses
Message-ID: <199708081829.DAA20125@mlsv.iuj.ac.jp>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Bass,
You are hitting the nail right on the head. 'Keep up the good work
down there'.
Lamin.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 22:03:29 +-300
From: BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
To: "'gambia-l@u.washington.edu'" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: RE: People are People
Message-ID: <01BCA446.EA8FF460@ddav.qatar.net.qa>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BCA446.EA991C20"
------ =_NextPart_000_01BCA446.EA991C20
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Mr.Grotnes and the Shadow List!
The unfortunate Racial comment made by Habib deserves our strongest =
condemnation! It was as outrageous as it was unacceptable.But now that =
he has appologized,we must leave it at that and continue to debate =
whether this Talking Shop should go to the Gambia and translate some of =
its big talks into action!
And keep up the good work down there!
Regards Basss!
----------
From: hghanim@nusacc.org[SMTP:hghanim@nusacc.org]
Sent: 08 =D4=DA=C8=C7=E4, 1997 17:06
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
Subject: RE: People are People=20
Let us close this case now .
It just an expression .Lord Luggard was one of the British Colonialist =
that made the division of Africa as a strategy to split tribes and =20
families into different countries and regions in order to CONTROL them. =
=20
In Gambia we have a similar case. Some villages in Gambia have their =20
markets in Senegal and the school in Gambia although they are the same =
tribe , family etc.(Casamance is a good example) Almost all are Jolas =
but =20
the French and the British artificially divided it to give them separate =
=20
identities.!!
That was what I meant. Lord (laugh) Luggard used agents from Europe and =
=20
sadly even the Africans to accomplish his mission.
But the point is well taken and let us proceed forgetting this .
Basss please mediate.
hg
-----Original Message-----
From: gambia-l@commit.gm
Sent: Thursday, August 07, 1997 5:31 PM
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: People are People
<< File: ENVELOPE.TXT >>
=
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
- =20
--
This is forwarded from "Torstein Grotnes" <tgr@commit.gm>
(tgr@commit.gm)
> From: hghanim@nusacc.org
> Dave
> That is not a problem . What is a problem is the derogatory remarks =20
that
=20
> creates disunity amongst us.
> We should not forget the old Lord Luggard 's rule during the colonial =
=20
=20
> days in Nigeria -divide and rule- with the help of some agents tactics =
=20
=20
> similar to Torstein words and actions.
> Peace
> hg
--------------
> >By the way
> >Is the name Torstien a Jewish name?
> >Let's smell the coffee and wake up
> Peace
> hg
Due to the 1 hour delay of e-mail messages(and time zones!)(and a heavy
workload...), I am not able to answer as quickly to Gambia-L mails as =20
some
of you, so I must apology for delayed answers.
Mr. hg.
You are actually giving me to much credit here.
I am a quite ignorant Norwegian at the age of 28, and The Gambia is the
first country I have been in in Africa.
I am not considering myself an intellectual, even less a highly educated
person (No university!).
I do not even know who Lord Luggard is!?
It is new to me that people from Gambia(Africa?) has a problem with =20
people
of Jewish decent, I thought
this thing of disliking people unlike yourself was a "white man's =20
curse"?!
As my brother Jorn comments if the silly idea of a "Jewish world
conspiracy" that never seems to fade in US/UK/Europe
actually is gaining ground among Africans, then that would maybe be the
closest thing "white man" have come to putting
people up against each other these days?!?!
When it comes to me(if there is any interest):
My name is Torstein meaning "Tor"(the Norse thundergod) and "stein" =20
meaning
rock.
It is one of the old Norse Viking names I believe, and I kind of like =
it.
When it comes to my decent I really don't know, I think I can trace my
Norwegian (European) decent back to
as long as the plague that killed most of Europe.
When I see myself in the mirror I see; blond, half curly hair(my mothers
pride), gray eyes, a heavy body,
white skin(light brown thanks to the Gambian sun!), and I really need a
shave.
When bumsters approach me they try to speak German to me, so I guess I =
am
like the average "eurotrash" type.
Hope this satisfies anybody's personal interest in me ;-)
Takk for oppmerksomheten,
Torstein
Commit
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 15:34:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Malanding S. Jaiteh" <msjaiteh@mtu.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Cc: msjaiteh@mtu.edu (Malanding S. Jaiteh)
Subject: Re: LA LA LA LA LA
Message-ID: <199708081934.PAA09473@hemlock.ffr.mtu.edu>
Content-Type: text
>
> Dear List Members:
> By the way, speaking of important topics, I hear that the rains are very
> poor this year. At least, so far. What can be done to help this?
> Long Live and Peace to The GAmbia!
> Liz Stewart Fatti
>
Liz this is a very important issue that needs our attention. I will
throw in my few bututs but first I must declare that I am no expert in
Agriculture.
Nevertheless I will stick my neck (perhaps foolishly) to say that we
as a nation living in a situation as the case in the Sahel, should find
ways to stop relying on rains to feed ourselves. The situation is no
more than playing lotery with your school lunch.
Please do not get me wrong! I am by no means saying that we are
would be hte first to acknowledge some brave efforts both past and
present to reduce our depeendecy on single crop systems.
Hoewver many such efforts in my opion are a little bit misdirected.
We heard of Diversification in agriculture but to many (particularly
in the Government) it meant diversifying crops -change from peanuts to
lineseed, maize or other. In short it meant reducing the country 's
dependency on peanuts as cash crop earner (well less simpler than
that). It fell short of dealing with the fundamental problem. That is
our farming system's complete reliance on the rains to survive. The
problem with rains is that not only has the period shortened over the
years, the intensity and consistency had also reduced.
Some people are still of the opinion that if we can introduce early
maturing varieties we will maintain or increase production. That
arguement is true if the rains will always be there when we plant. Our
problem is that we can never tell whether the rains will fail or not.
Also you see private commercial farms from outside bringing in lots of
equipment and at times cutting the little forest lands we have to start
export oriented production systems. Often these are very successful
(at least in generating revenue for the state). What it does not do is
giving the poor farmers who make up 99.999% of our farming community
the opportunity to break way from their their productive system. Instead
they become convinced that the only way they can do better is to use
equipment, and facilities like the big-time farmer. The environmental
implication of that is one I would not like to touch on now.
What many of us do not see is that the big time farmer made it because
he was able to sell his produce in a market place at good price.
Perhaps he would have been the most unproductive and inefficient
farmer if his produce went to BrikamaBa (just another typical place
for our local produce). And I am sure the country (from the birds,
insects to people and government) better off if this big
time farmer did not cut down (the only prime forest area in the
Division) to start his farm but instead find a way to absorb produce
from our many women who wake up every morning from far away palces
like Foni Bondali to make it to Banjul by 6 AM everyday.
May be its one way to start coorporate
Gambia. I must caution that we do not need Gambia Cooperative Union in
this scene.
What do the Government do if this big-time farmers do not want to do
just that? Well the government must try and negotiate or trade for the
sale of these products. There is nothing better the EU or US or even
Iran or Libya can do for us than allow pepper grown in Baddibu;
mangoes from Kombo or even onion or cabbage from Wuli to be sold in
their market (directly or indirectly). I am sure many Gambians will give
up food aid for that one. Many Gambians are not starving now because
they are able to sell even though with great difficulties a little of
this and a little of that to neighboring Senegal. And of course the
LOOMO (communinal markets) have helped greatly.
Another area the government could do is to help farmers preserve
produce before it gets to the market. It is no doubt frustrating
to see onions from Holland in Fulladu when we cannot see onions from
Kiang in Nuimi. Reasons dealers say they rot too quickly. I bet it
would be cheaper in the long run to import or research technologies
that will preserve Gambian onion than to import onions Europe.
Please do not say its protectionism. Competion will take care of that
once everyone meets the standards set by the buyer. So is the case in
a similar case -eggs from England.
Too much to say already!
Thanks for reading and have a nice weekend.
Malanding Jaiteh
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 15:42:02 -0500
From: hghanim@nusacc.org
To: kolls567@qatar.net.qa, gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: RE: People are People
Message-ID: <TFSMKGIS@nusacc.org>
Thanks Basss
All I did was ask a question because of the offensive term used Torstien
"Yuppies" (which I thought he meant rich Gambians) . But now that all of
us have clarified our statements I agree to forget and get into another
chapter.
Again my apologies to all out who may have taken it out of bounds. And to
Torstien also.
hg
-----Original Message-----
From: kolls567@qatar.net.qa
Sent: Friday, August 08, 1997 3:14 PM
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: RE: People are People
<< File: FILE0001.ATT >> << File: ENVELOPE.TXT >>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Mr.Grotnes and the Shadow List!
The unfortunate Racial comment made by Habib deserves our strongest
condemnation! It was as outrageous as it was unacceptable.But now that he
has
appologized,we must leave it at that and continue to debate
whether this Talking Shop should go to the Gambia and translate some of
its
big talks into action!
And keep up the good work down there!
Regards Basss!
----------
From: hghanim@nusacc.org[SMTP:hghanim@nusacc.org]
Sent: 08 ____{, 1997 17:06
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
Subject: RE: People are People
Let us close this case now .
It just an expression .Lord Luggard was one of the British Colonialist
that made the division of Africa as a strategy to split tribes and
families into different countries and regions in order to CONTROL them.
In Gambia we have a similar case. Some villages in Gambia have their
markets in Senegal and the school in Gambia although they are the same
tribe , family etc.(Casamance is a good example) Almost all are Jolas but
the French and the British artificially divided it to give them separate
identities.!!
That was what I meant. Lord (laugh) Luggard used agents from Europe and
sadly even the Africans to accomplish his mission.
But the point is well taken and let us proceed forgetting this .
Basss please mediate.
hg
-----Original Message-----
From: gambia-l@commit.gm
Sent: Thursday, August 07, 1997 5:31 PM
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: People are People
<< File: ENVELOPE.TXT >>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
This is forwarded from "Torstein Grotnes" <tgr@commit.gm>
(tgr@commit.gm)
> From: hghanim@nusacc.org
> Dave
> That is not a problem . What is a problem is the derogatory remarks
that
> creates disunity amongst us.
> We should not forget the old Lord Luggard 's rule during the colonial
> days in Nigeria -divide and rule- with the help of some agents tactics
> similar to Torstein words and actions.
> Peace
> hg
--------------
> >By the way
> >Is the name Torstien a Jewish name?
> >Let's smell the coffee and wake up
> Peace
> hg
Due to the 1 hour delay of e-mail messages(and time zones!)(and a heavy
workload...), I am not able to answer as quickly to Gambia-L mails as
some
of you, so I must apology for delayed answers.
Mr. hg.
You are actually giving me to much credit here.
I am a quite ignorant Norwegian at the age of 28, and The Gambia is the
first country I have been in in Africa.
I am not considering myself an intellectual, even less a highly educated
person (No university!).
I do not even know who Lord Luggard is!?
It is new to me that people from Gambia(Africa?) has a problem with
people
of Jewish decent, I thought
this thing of disliking people unlike yourself was a "white man's
curse"?!
As my brother Jorn comments if the silly idea of a "Jewish world
conspiracy" that never seems to fade in US/UK/Europe
actually is gaining ground among Africans, then that would maybe be the
closest thing "white man" have come to putting
people up against each other these days?!?!
When it comes to me(if there is any interest):
My name is Torstein meaning "Tor"(the Norse thundergod) and "stein"
meaning
rock.
It is one of the old Norse Viking names I believe, and I kind of like it.
When it comes to my decent I really don't know, I think I can trace my
Norwegian (European) decent back to
as long as the plague that killed most of Europe.
When I see myself in the mirror I see; blond, half curly hair(my mothers
pride), gray eyes, a heavy body,
white skin(light brown thanks to the Gambian sun!), and I really need a
shave.
When bumsters approach me they try to speak German to me, so I guess I am
like the average "eurotrash" type.
Hope this satisfies anybody's personal interest in me ;-)
Takk for oppmerksomheten,
Torstein
Commit
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 10:10:29 -0700
From: "m.gassama" <m.gassama@swipnet.se>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: introduction
Message-ID: <33EB5305.D0D@swipnet.se>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi!
Thanks for adding me to the list. I am a Gambian (born in Serrekunda)
residing in Stockholm, Sweden. I have also resided in Alabama, USA where
I did my B.A. I am currently doing my Masters dissertation on equal
employment opportunities for immigrants in Sweden.I am generally known
by my middle name- Buharry.
I don=B4t know if this introduction is sufficient but I am really =
having a hard time trying to figure out what to include. If it is
insufficient, I would be more than willing to answer any questions.
Thanks.
Momodou Buharry Gassama.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 16:08:34 -0500
From: hghanim@nusacc.org
To: msjaiteh@mtu.edu, gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: RE: LA LA LA LA LA
Message-ID: <TFSMTHVU@nusacc.org>
Mr. Jaiteh
You hit it right on the nose.
About ten years ago The UNDP and Dept of agriculture started a joint
project for women's vegetable gardening in the Kombo St Mary's area. I
was part of the team that helped in digging the water wells.
We have excellent ground water which is not too deep. We can easily get
more water by digging more wells to irrigate even groundnut farms. It may
be expensive initially but it definitely pays in the long run and stops
the total dependency on the rains. I have personal experience in this so
I speak with some documented records to prove the feasibility of this
idea.
Habib
-----Original Message-----
From: msjaiteh@mtu.edu
Sent: Friday, August 08, 1997 3:34 PM
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: LA LA LA LA LA
<< File: ENVELOPE.TXT >>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
>
> Dear List Members:
> By the way, speaking of important topics, I hear that the rains are
very
> poor this year. At least, so far. What can be done to help this?
> Long Live and Peace to The GAmbia!
> Liz Stewart Fatti
>
Liz this is a very important issue that needs our attention. I will
throw in my few bututs but first I must declare that I am no expert in
Agriculture.
Nevertheless I will stick my neck (perhaps foolishly) to say that we
as a nation living in a situation as the case in the Sahel, should find
ways to stop relying on rains to feed ourselves. The situation is no
more than playing lotery with your school lunch.
Please do not get me wrong! I am by no means saying that we are
would be hte first to acknowledge some brave efforts both past and
present to reduce our depeendecy on single crop systems.
Hoewver many such efforts in my opion are a little bit misdirected.
We heard of Diversification in agriculture but to many (particularly
in the Government) it meant diversifying crops -change from peanuts to
lineseed, maize or other. In short it meant reducing the country 's
dependency on peanuts as cash crop earner (well less simpler than
that). It fell short of dealing with the fundamental problem. That is
our farming system's complete reliance on the rains to survive. The
problem with rains is that not only has the period shortened over the
years, the intensity and consistency had also reduced.
Some people are still of the opinion that if we can introduce early
maturing varieties we will maintain or increase production. That
arguement is true if the rains will always be there when we plant. Our
problem is that we can never tell whether the rains will fail or not.
Also you see private commercial farms from outside bringing in lots of
equipment and at times cutting the little forest lands we have to start
export oriented production systems. Often these are very successful
(at least in generating revenue for the state). What it does not do is
giving the poor farmers who make up 99.999% of our farming community
the opportunity to break way from their their productive system. Instead
they become convinced that the only way they can do better is to use
equipment, and facilities like the big-time farmer. The environmental
implication of that is one I would not like to touch on now.
What many of us do not see is that the big time farmer made it because
he was able to sell his produce in a market place at good price.
Perhaps he would have been the most unproductive and inefficient
farmer if his produce went to BrikamaBa (just another typical place
for our local produce). And I am sure the country (from the birds,
insects to people and government) better off if this big
time farmer did not cut down (the only prime forest area in the
Division) to start his farm but instead find a way to absorb produce
from our many women who wake up every morning from far away palces
like Foni Bondali to make it to Banjul by 6 AM everyday.
May be its one way to start coorporate
Gambia. I must caution that we do not need Gambia Cooperative Union in
this scene.
What do the Government do if this big-time farmers do not want to do
just that? Well the government must try and negotiate or trade for the
sale of these products. There is nothing better the EU or US or even
Iran or Libya can do for us than allow pepper grown in Baddibu;
mangoes from Kombo or even onion or cabbage from Wuli to be sold in
their market (directly or indirectly). I am sure many Gambians will give
up food aid for that one. Many Gambians are not starving now because
they are able to sell even though with great difficulties a little of
this and a little of that to neighboring Senegal. And of course the
LOOMO (communinal markets) have helped greatly.
Another area the government could do is to help farmers preserve
produce before it gets to the market. It is no doubt frustrating
to see onions from Holland in Fulladu when we cannot see onions from
Kiang in Nuimi. Reasons dealers say they rot too quickly. I bet it
would be cheaper in the long run to import or research technologies
that will preserve Gambian onion than to import onions Europe.
Please do not say its protectionism. Competion will take care of that
once everyone meets the standards set by the buyer. So is the case in
a similar case -eggs from England.
Too much to say already!
Thanks for reading and have a nice weekend.
Malanding Jaiteh
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 16:13:11 -0500
From: hghanim@nusacc.org
To: m.gassama@swipnet.se, gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: RE: introduction
Message-ID: <TFSMUWVE@nusacc.org>
Welcome
Habib
-----Original Message-----
From: m.gassama@swipnet.se
Sent: Friday, August 08, 1997 4:09 PM
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: introduction
<< File: ENVELOPE.TXT >>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Hi!
Thanks for adding me to the list. I am a Gambian (born in Serrekunda)
residing in Stockholm, Sweden. I have also resided in Alabama, USA where
I did my B.A. I am currently doing my Masters dissertation on equal
employment opportunities for immigrants in Sweden.I am generally known
by my middle name- Buharry.
I don_t know if this introduction is sufficient but I am really
having a hard time trying to figure out what to include. If it is
insufficient, I would be more than willing to answer any questions.
Thanks.
Momodou Buharry Gassama.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 16:49:19 -0400 (EDT)
From: mjallow@st6000.sct.edu (Modou Jallow)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: introduction
Message-ID: <9708082049.AA42196@st6000.sct.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Buharry wrote:
> Hi!
> Thanks for adding me to the list. I am a Gambian (born in Serrekunda)
> residing in Stockholm, Sweden. I have also resided in Alabama
errrrr.....do you mean Tuscaloosa...and Stillman College???
Well, if this isn't a small world then I don't know what is. Tom, I
haven't seen you since you left Atlanta some years back. How the hell are
you?
WhaZ'UP man???
Send me e-mail at my private address below and a BIG welcome to GL.
Welcome to all new members too!
And to my cousin SAL, I say....keep it light, my man :=)))).
Regards,
Moe S. Jallow
Product Engineer
Hayes MicroComputer Products
Norcross, GA 30092
==============================================================================
mjallow@sct.edu mjallow@hayes.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 14:57:17
From: conteh@usa.net
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: My thoughts on different mails
Message-ID: <ww02-BHHu6R2331@netaddress.usa.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I work in a restaurant and I don't have a computer so the only time
i read mail is when i visit my friend. I was very suprised to see so
much interesting mail. I will now respond to some of what i am reading.
I do not think that this man should be telling us to go home. He
does not know how difficult life can be when you are not a foriegner and
strugling. In Brikama i had my own shop but for years i was not making
enough money. Now i work in a kitchen for 3 weeks and i already sent
money home.
I also agree that in gambia people do not show their money. If you
go to Freetown or Lagos or even Accra you will see nicer houses and
better cars. In gambia some people have plenty money but they live in small
houses and drive second hand cars even if they are Mercedes Benz. Also
in Dakar you will see many more beegars at the street corners.
One woman asked about oil in gambia. is that true? gambia needs
that money because times are very hard now.
Also when is there going to be an onserver web page? if i have to
join gambianet i will join because 20 dollars is a good price. i don't
think everyone in the gambia internet can join though so i think it
should be seperate. also can someone explain the education committees? do
they give scholarships?
well thanks for all the good mail
mino
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 00:10:23 +-300
From: BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
To: "'gambia-l@u.washington.edu'" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: RE: introduction
Message-ID: <01BCA458.A4E3C880@diip.qatar.net.qa>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BCA458.A4F49160"
------ =_NextPart_000_01BCA458.A4F49160
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Its enough! You are most WELCOME to the Bantabaa,so take your seat.
Regards Basss!
----------
From: m.gassama[SMTP:m.gassama@swipnet.se]
Sent: 08 =D4=DA=C8=C7=E4, 1997 20:10
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
Subject: introduction
Hi!
Thanks for adding me to the list. I am a Gambian (born in Serrekunda)
residing in Stockholm, Sweden. I have also resided in Alabama, USA where
I did my B.A. I am currently doing my Masters dissertation on equal
employment opportunities for immigrants in Sweden.I am generally known
by my middle name- Buharry.
I don=B4t know if this introduction is sufficient but I am really=20
having a hard time trying to figure out what to include. If it is
insufficient, I would be more than willing to answer any questions.
Thanks.
Momodou Buharry Gassama.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 14:10:42 PDT
From: "Jainaba Diallo" <jai_diallo@hotmail.com>
To: LTR6685@owl.forestry.uga.edu, gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: RE: People are People
Message-ID: <19970808211043.20093.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Laura,
"We" all know that Gambia-l is not a chat line....however, if you want
to include your vital stats etc. in your intro., that's your
prerogative. I don't care whether you are a blond...bla bla bla!!!
BTW this is my last posting on this thread!!!!
Jainaba.
>And the hits just keep on coming...
>Did I say debating skills le? Maybe it should have been manners le?
>By the way, Jainaba, since you want to put everyone in their properly
>labeled box, I am also a blond. I'm about 5'5" and have blue eyes.
>Does that help you to label me properly? I just want to make sure.
>Maybe I should have included that in my introduction to the List.
>
>I apologize for the out of bounds commentary. Had I
>Jainaba's personal address I wouldn't have bothered anyone
>else with this type of talk. But... at least I didn't call
>names.
>
>Everyone have a good weekend.
>Laura
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 17:30:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Malanding S. Jaiteh" <msjaiteh@mtu.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Cc: msjaiteh@mtu.edu (Malanding S. Jaiteh)
Subject: Re: My thoughts on different mails
Message-ID: <199708082130.RAA09798@hemlock.ffr.mtu.edu>
Content-Type: text
> think everyone in the gambia internet can join though so i think it
> should be seperate. also can someone explain the education committees? do
> they give scholarships?
>
> well thanks for all the good mail
>
> mino
>
Mino I do wish that GambiaNet is to the level when it can offer scholarships.
The education support program is really just begining and we are at the
planning stage.
Malanding Jaiteh
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 17:39:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: Momodou Musa Janneh <mmjanneh@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
To: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: introduction
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.94.970808165323.19386A-100000@utkux4.cas.utk.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE
=09Wellcome to the "Bantaba."
=09=09
Maybe my eyes skip something in your introduction, or I did'nt
get it too well.=20
=09Did you mean to say that you used to reside in Sweden, and now=20
residing in Alabama,USA?
=09If the original is true, and you don't mine, what makes you
moved from USA to Sweden? Because I'm tired of this country now, and I
don't feel too good about going back to The Gambia at this moment. Things
are'nt getting better the way I think they should be. That's the angle
with which I'm seeing things down there. Maybe some people are viewing
it at a different angle.
Mr. CarpenterMan might love that information too, so that he may
stop hitting the Veteran nails. Once again wellcome!
=09In a hurry!
=2E...::::>>>>))))]]]]}}}}||||MOMODOU
=09=09=09=09=09=20
On Fri, 8 Aug 1997, m.gassama wrote:
> Hi!
> Thanks for adding me to the list. I am a Gambian (born in Serrekunda)
> residing in Stockholm, Sweden. I have also resided in Alabama, USA where
> I did my B.A. I am currently doing my Masters dissertation on equal
> employment opportunities for immigrants in Sweden.I am generally known
> by my middle name- Buharry.
> =09I don=B4t know if this introduction is sufficient but I am really=20
> having a hard time trying to figure out what to include. If it is
> insufficient, I would be more than willing to answer any questions.
> Thanks.
> =09=09=09=09=09Momodou Buharry Gassama.
>=20
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 17:54:57 -0400
From: Latir Downes-Thomas <latir@earthlink.net>
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: GambiaNet Advisory Board
Message-ID: <33EB95B1.A7CF70D7@earthlink.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Dear List Members,
The GambiaNet Board of Directors wishes to announce that we are seeking
candidates with **legal expertise** to assist us in the capacity of
Advisory Board Members.
Under our draft Bylaws, the definition and duties of the Advisory Board
are as follows:
SECTION (3) ADVISORY BOARD
(A) DEFINED: There shall be an Advisory Board which will consist of
members of the Organization appointed by the Board.
(B) DUTIES: The function of the Advisory Board shall be to examine
issues and questions presented by the Board as to options and courses of
actions available to the Board.
If you are selected by the Board of Directors to be an Advisory Board
member you will be an invaluable member of the organisation. From time
to time issues may arise or questions may be asked and help from
professionals or those with a working knowledge of the issue at hand
will be greatly needed.
At this time, the Board of Directors is seeking to appoint those members
of the list who have legal backgrounds to join the Advisory Board for a
term of one year. Since the Board of Directors has the ultimate
responsibility for the GambiaNet Organisation, initially, we wish to
seek comment from "legal minds" on our draft Bylaws before formally
adopting them and on an impending business contract.
The Bylaws state clearly that the members of the Advisory Board must
come from the Membership of GambiaNet so the Board of Directors will
grant Advisory Board members full membership to GambiaNet and membership
fees will be waived.
If you are someone with a legal background or studying law, and have the
intention of joining GambiaNet, we ask that you kindly consider helping
us by joining this Board and playing a vital role in this new exciting
cyberspace venture! This initial request is for three members and the
duties as stated in the Bylaws are purely advisory. Any help sought by
the Board of Directors will be divided among the members so that any
work with the Organisation will add just a minimal workload to your
schedules.
If you are interested, please send a request to my email address:
latir@earthlink.net
Please include a brief account of your professional background that also
includes the number of years in the mentioned profession(s), and your
current country of residence.
GambiaNet, as you may have already been informed, is a non profit,
apolitical membership based organisation registered in Chicago,
Illinois, USA. It was founded by a group of Gambians from the Internet
based "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List" who
initially came together to provide a means of putting a Gambian based
newspaper on the Internet for the Gambian Internet community.
That project, called Observer Online, is now coming into fruition as
part of the services to be offered by GambiaNet to its members.
As stated in our draft Bylaws, GambiaNet shall:
"...operate exclusively for not-for-profit purposes within the meaning
of section 501(c)(3) of the United States Internal Revenue Code to
promote through its members the social, cultural, informational and
educational interests of the Gambia throughout the world. It shall:
1. Provide for the dissemination of informational, educational and
literary material from and about the Gambia to the Internet and
other media.
2. Bring and share information about the social, economic and political
developments in The Gambia.
3. Provide a forum for exchanging ideas and for discussions on
matters related to The Gambia.
4. Promote matters related to The Gambia and Gambian or African
cultural heritage.
5. Raise funds for educational purposes in the Gambia and the Gambian
diaspora.
6. Include other activities related to Gambia agreed upon by the Board
of Directors.
7. Operate on a politically impartial basis and shall not render
support or endorsement to, nor shall it denounce, any political
group or party in The Gambia and abroad."
Thank you for your kind cooperation.
Sincerely,
Latir Gheran Downes-Thomas
Public Relations Representative
GambiaNet
latir@earthlink.net
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 18:14:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: Momodou Musa Janneh <mmjanneh@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
To: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: GambiaNet Advisory Board
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.94.970808180516.19386C-100000@utkux4.cas.utk.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
So many many thanks Mr. Latir D-Thomas, what a coincident? That
guy, Mino, was just enquiring about The GambiaNet. I hope those
information might help him in his search.
Thanks!
On Fri, 8 Aug 1997, Latir Downes-Thomas wrote:
> Dear List Members,
>
> The GambiaNet Board of Directors wishes to announce that we are seeking
> candidates with **legal expertise** to assist us in the capacity of
> Advisory Board Members.
>
> Under our draft Bylaws, the definition and duties of the Advisory Board
> are as follows:
>
> SECTION (3) ADVISORY BOARD
>
> (A) DEFINED: There shall be an Advisory Board which will consist of
> members of the Organization appointed by the Board.
>
> (B) DUTIES: The function of the Advisory Board shall be to examine
> issues and questions presented by the Board as to options and courses of
> actions available to the Board.
>
> If you are selected by the Board of Directors to be an Advisory Board
> member you will be an invaluable member of the organisation. From time
> to time issues may arise or questions may be asked and help from
> professionals or those with a working knowledge of the issue at hand
> will be greatly needed.
>
> At this time, the Board of Directors is seeking to appoint those members
> of the list who have legal backgrounds to join the Advisory Board for a
> term of one year. Since the Board of Directors has the ultimate
> responsibility for the GambiaNet Organisation, initially, we wish to
> seek comment from "legal minds" on our draft Bylaws before formally
> adopting them and on an impending business contract.
>
> The Bylaws state clearly that the members of the Advisory Board must
> come from the Membership of GambiaNet so the Board of Directors will
> grant Advisory Board members full membership to GambiaNet and membership
> fees will be waived.
>
> If you are someone with a legal background or studying law, and have the
> intention of joining GambiaNet, we ask that you kindly consider helping
> us by joining this Board and playing a vital role in this new exciting
> cyberspace venture! This initial request is for three members and the
> duties as stated in the Bylaws are purely advisory. Any help sought by
> the Board of Directors will be divided among the members so that any
> work with the Organisation will add just a minimal workload to your
> schedules.
>
> If you are interested, please send a request to my email address:
> latir@earthlink.net
>
> Please include a brief account of your professional background that also
> includes the number of years in the mentioned profession(s), and your
> current country of residence.
>
> GambiaNet, as you may have already been informed, is a non profit,
> apolitical membership based organisation registered in Chicago,
> Illinois, USA. It was founded by a group of Gambians from the Internet
> based "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List" who
> initially came together to provide a means of putting a Gambian based
> newspaper on the Internet for the Gambian Internet community.
>
> That project, called Observer Online, is now coming into fruition as
> part of the services to be offered by GambiaNet to its members.
>
> As stated in our draft Bylaws, GambiaNet shall:
>
> "...operate exclusively for not-for-profit purposes within the meaning
> of section 501(c)(3) of the United States Internal Revenue Code to
> promote through its members the social, cultural, informational and
> educational interests of the Gambia throughout the world. It shall:
>
> 1. Provide for the dissemination of informational, educational and
> literary material from and about the Gambia to the Internet and
> other media.
> 2. Bring and share information about the social, economic and political
> developments in The Gambia.
> 3. Provide a forum for exchanging ideas and for discussions on
> matters related to The Gambia.
> 4. Promote matters related to The Gambia and Gambian or African
> cultural heritage.
> 5. Raise funds for educational purposes in the Gambia and the Gambian
> diaspora.
> 6. Include other activities related to Gambia agreed upon by the Board
> of Directors.
> 7. Operate on a politically impartial basis and shall not render
> support or endorsement to, nor shall it denounce, any political
> group or party in The Gambia and abroad."
>
> Thank you for your kind cooperation.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Latir Gheran Downes-Thomas
> Public Relations Representative
> GambiaNet
> latir@earthlink.net
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 18:14:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ancha Bala-Gaye u <bala7500@mach1.wlu.ca>
To: Andrea Klumpp <klumpp@kar.dec.com>
Cc: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: People are People
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9708081706.A9351-0100000@mach1.wlu.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
I have to agree with Andrea that trying to read between the lines is
something that could bring a lot of miscommunication. It's something that's
done if one has some, or any idea, about what another is
like. Most people that I've met on this list, I have done so for the
first time. And I do try to figure out what a person is like by the kind of
messages they send which isn't very accurate. So I try not to make any
judgements about people. All I'm saying is that we should give
others a chance to explain
themselves before we say something. Cause I know that I'ld hate it if I
was misunderstood, I think we all would.
Ancha.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 19:44:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: SANG1220@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Cc: SANG1220@aol.com
Subject: Re: Torstien
Message-ID: <970808194426_-802611007@emout02.mail.aol.com>
What does it matter if Torstien is Jewish , this is an open forum for us
disagree to agree, I believe Torstien is merely exhorting those of us with
special skills to perhaps look into giong home if nothing but to understand
the situation before the endless complaining and criticism of the Gambia. We
may not agree with each others viewpoint,but let's be civil in our approach
after all we all have Gambia at heart.
Thanks
Daddy Sang
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Aug 1997 23:13:33 +0000
From: "The Gambia-L shadow list" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: The Gambia
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970808231333.006858cc@mail.commit.gm>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
This is forwarded from Torstein Grotnes <tgr@commit.gm>
(tgr@commit.gm)
A reply to Mr. Mino's mail to Gambia-L.
Mr.Mino is absolutely correct.
I do not know how it is to really struggle to survive everyday, or
to find money to have something to eat that day.
I grew up in a protected and well situated middle-class society, and
I have never gone to bed on a empty stomach.
My intentions has all the time been to see opportunities and be a optimist,
and to believe that if you really wanted to do something, it is possible.
My father and mother has(tried to)learn me to be critical to my own thoughts
and to
show me how easy it is to be naive or fool yourself.
I feel very bad when really struggling people like Mr. Mino tell me I am out
of line.
Even if I am sitting on a soft feather-pillow going trough life, my naive hope
was/is that I can do some good to this country also despite the fact that we
are running a
commercial enterprise.
As a standing offer I will greet any Gambia-L member or otherwise who come
to The Gambia
with a good idea and fighting spirit, and promise to help and share our
experiences in
The Gambia with them to the extent that is possible for me.
Sincerely,
from a foreigner in The Gambia
Torstein
Commit
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 21:08:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: EStew68064@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: RE: People are People
Message-ID: <970808210825_-905369697@emout05.mail.aol.com>
I'd like to emphasize though, regarding the scenario outside Kairiba Market
described by Torstien, that it is not unique to The Gambia that the rich
coexist with the poor like that. It is everywhere in this world...in Europe,
South America, the USA, and on and on...that those who get very rich don't
want to give up too much to help the poor.
Is it human nature?
The idea of taxes if it is used towards health, education and welfare, is a
good one although this too is often riddled with difficulies which probably
you all know, but at least would help the poor somewhat.
Kayira, Peace & Long Live The Gambia!
Liz Stewart-FAtti
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 22:46:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: ASJanneh@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Monetary/Economic Matters
Message-ID: <970808224659_-1002950957@emout20.mail.aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: multipart/mixed;
boundary="PART.BOUNDARY.0.202.emout20.mail.aol.com.871094818"
--PART.BOUNDARY.0.202.emout20.mail.aol.com.871094818
Content-ID: <0_202_871094819@emout20.mail.aol.com.11761>
Content-type: text/plain
Gambia-l:
It may be time we also discuss the implications of The Gambia's possible
membership in the WAMU (UMOA).
Greetings to all!
AMADOU
--PART.BOUNDARY.0.202.emout20.mail.aol.com.871094818
Content-ID: <0_202_871094819@emout20.mail.aol.com.11762>
Content-type: text/plain;
name="CFAZONE"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
By Alan Raybould =
=0D
ABIDJAN, Aug 6 (Reuter) - As Europe agonises over its planned single curr=
ency, African countries in the Franc Zone are watching anxiously, hoping=
the turbulence does not spell the end of the CFA franc, the currency th=
ey have shared for 50 years. =
=0D
The CFA franc is a rare specimen -- an African currency that is converti=
ble, despite being the money of some of the poorest states on Earth, than=
ks to a French Treasury guarantee. =
=0D
It is used by Benin, Burkina Faso, Cameroon, Central African Republic, C=
had, the Comoros, Congo, Spanish-speaking Equatorial Guinea, Gabon, Ivory=
Coast, Mali, Niger, Senegal and Togo. The former Portuguese colony Guine=
a-Bissau joined the club this month. =
=0D
In theory, the CFA franc should not suffer if the French franc is replace=
d by the euro in 1999. =
=0D
The Maastricht Treaty that enshrines European Economic and Monetary Union=
(EMU) catered for the eventuality. "The euro will automatically become =
the currency of reference for the CFA franc zone," says an EU briefing d=
ocument. =
=0D
But uncertainty exists, as even the governor of the West African central =
bank, the BCEAO, admitted in July. =
=0D
"The states of the (European) Union will decide whether to continue or no=
t with the current system. They've already said they would continue. Unde=
r what conditions? What are the details? No one can say right now," said =
Charles Konan Banny. =
=0D
Some analysts have suggested the link with the franc should be removed, o=
r even that Zone countries be allowed to set individual exchange rates to=
reflect their disparate economies. =
=0D
"It might look like that from a technical point of view, but that's a st=
atic analysis," said Tchetche N'Guessan, head of the CIRES economic resea=
rch centre in Abidjan, who is critical of monetary policy in the Zone but=
strongly supports the principle of the union. =
=0D
SINGLE CURRENCY IMPOSES DISCIPLINE =
=0D
The West African states in particular were moving towards an economic un=
ion of their own, with converging inflation rates, plans for common trade=
regimes, a regional bourse and much more, he said. A single currency wa=
s vital to that. =
=0D
David McWilliams, an economist with Banque Nationale de Paris in London, =
said many African countries had misused currency independence, printing m=
oney and fuelling inflation, while the Franc Zone mechanisms had imposed =
discipline on its members. =
=0D
"The CFA franc will probably be incorporated within the euro, with France=
taking responsibility for it," he said -- leaving things much as they ar=
e now. =
=0D
N'Guessan, in a recent book on the two African central banks of the Fran=
c Zone, says their monetary policy has been characterised by "inertia", w=
ith governors under pressure from France, French business and African lea=
ders to hold interest rates low and the CFA exchange rate unrealistically=
high. =
=0D
The result, until 1994, was capital flight. =
=0D
Tales of Africans turning up at Paris and London banks with suitcases stu=
ffed with CFA francs were not unusual. =
=0D
N'Guessan felt the current fixed rate of 100 CFA francs to one French fra=
nc was appropriate, as long as both currency and interest rate policy was=
more supple in the future. =
=0D
DEVALUATATION SEEN AS BETRAYAL BUT IT WORKED =
=0D
That rate was set in January 1994 after a 50 percent devaluation against =
the franc -- the first since 1948. =
=0D
It was seen as a French betrayal by the elite in francophone Africa, but=
the French Treasury had finally tired of covering the budget deficits of=
countries like Ivory Coast and Cameroon. =
=0D
Paris made it clear that its future help depended on the Franc Zone membe=
rs putting their economic house in order, starting with structural adjust=
ment agreements with the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank. =
=0D
The medicine was hard to swallow, but it worked. =
=0D
The Franc Zone secretariat in Paris has put real growth across the West A=
frican Monetary Union (UMOA) bloc at six percent in 1996, and 5.5 percent=
in the Central African bloc. =
=0D
Ivory Coast, the economic powerhouse of the western part of the Zone, is =
forecasting eight percent growth this year. =
=0D
Its trade surplus doubled to 748.4 billion CFA francs ($1.2 billion) in 1=
996 and recent currency market trends should underpin that improvement. =
=0D
The CFA franc, following the French franc, has depreciated by 20 percent =
to 625 per dollar over the past year. =
=0D
"That could give a boost to the recovery in France, and since our economi=
es are intimately linked to France, that can help our exports. It's a goo=
d thing," said N'Guessan. =
=0D
Inflation is under control -- 5.9 percent in Ivory Coast and 2.2 percent=
in Senegal, for example -- despite the drop in the currency and its effe=
ct on the Zone's big import bill. =
=0D
McWilliams also stressed the positive aspect of the latest depreciation f=
or foreign investment, especially if the West African bourse gets off the=
ground at the end of the year. =
=0D
"Given this background noise (about the bourse), and the conspicuous inve=
stor interest we are seeing, especially from the U.S., a falling exchang=
e rate is a large plus," he said. =
=0D
Despite the question mark hanging over its post-1999 future, the Zone's =
stability and vitality is proving attractive again. =
=0D
Guinea-Bissau became a full member on August 1, when it gave up its peso=
for the CFA franc. =
=0D
The French Treasury was reportedly not thrilled about its membership, wor=
ried that its undeveloped economy would be a drag on the rest of the Zon=
e, but pressure from neighbouring Senegal swung the political decision. =
=0D
BCEAO officials have now raised the possibility of Guinea rejoining -- it=
left in 1960 following independence from France -- as well as anglophone=
Gambia and Ghana. =
=0D
Some reports have even mentioned Nigeria as a would-be member, which is p=
robably reading far too much into the government's exhortation to Nigeria=
ns to learn French. The French Treasury's view on the matter is not known=
=2E =
=0D
($ =3D 625 CFA francs) =
=0D
02:04 08-06-97
=0D
--PART.BOUNDARY.0.202.emout20.mail.aol.com.871094818--
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 09 Aug 1997 04:04:45 -0500
From: Francis Njie <c3p0@xsite.net>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Development of subsaharan africa (God & Productivity)
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970809040445.0073cb50@xsite.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Pa Musa wrote:
>> the problem with our corporate structures I believe is the CIVIL SERVICE
>> MENTALITY..whether you work or not..produce or not..perform or not..you
get
>> paid
I would go further and claim that the necessary understanding of the
necessity of productivity is lacking in the Gambia (and probably in most of
sub-Saharan Africa for that matter). The necessary appreciation of the
principle (and natural fact) that you cannot get something for nothing is
hindered by, among other things, the convenient interpretation of
resource-hardships as God's doing-- "N'dogal i yaalla la" (i.e. "It's God's
wish/doing"), "God will provide", etc, are beliefs that are rather
ingrained in Gambian culture. This makes for an unclear idea of where
wealth/money/development comes from.
How do we change such fatalism and its undesirable effect on Gambian
productivity? I don't think there is even a decent chance, culture being as
nebulous as it is, that this can be changed in the conceivable future.
However, it is clear that this fundamental change does not have to take
place in the general populace for the Gambian economy to be more efficient.
If the ruling class succeeds in tilting the terms for reward (from nepotism
to productivity/meritocracy, if you will), the average Gambian will have to
comply with these terms whether or not his/her understanding of
productivity is sound. This is the case in the United States. Although the
average American's understanding of productivity or its necessity is
arguably minimal, his/her appreciation of the practical necessity of
productivity in his/her life is clear-- The average American knows that
he/she has to produce to, well, survive...
- Francis
PS: The convenient use of religion and God to explain reality also pervades
our political culture. Our leadership gets off easy with statements like
"Tedu yaalla a len fa tajj" (i.e. "God has his reasons for putting them in
power"). In short, the capacity of the individual to plot the course of
his/her life is not fully realized/appreciated (which would explain why
democracy is not fully realized in sub-Saharan Africa). Hence, the
outrageous freedom enjoyed by our leadership to run amuck and clown as they
wish.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 09 Aug 1997 04:15:02 -0500
From: Francis Njie <c3p0@xsite.net>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: New and Curious (Oil off the Gambian coast?)
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970809041502.00733d18@xsite.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Of the purported oil reserves in off the Gambian coast, Laura wrote:
>> Does anyone know if they really exist?
Last I heard, the question was not their existence, but the viability of
drilling these off-shore reserves. Anyone have any more information on this?
- Francis
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 09 Aug 1997 04:38:17 -0500
From: Francis Njie <c3p0@xsite.net>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Internet awareness seminar (Bandwidth Increases)
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970809043817.007152e4@xsite.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> Later in the three year project, even higher bandwidth would be available.
Any more information on the planned bandwidth increases beyond the initial
128KBaud?
Many thanks...
- Francis
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 09 Aug 1997 15:09:38 +0200
From: Andrea Klumpp <klumpp@kar.dec.com>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: The Gambia
Message-ID: <33EC6C12.6508@kar.dec.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
naive ??? Keep it op, man and greetings back, Andrea
> Even if I am sitting on a soft feather-pillow going trough life, my naive hope
> was/is that I can do some good to this country also despite the fact that we
> are running a
> commercial enterprise.
> As a standing offer I will greet any Gambia-L member or otherwise who come
> to The Gambia
> with a good idea and fighting spirit, and promise to help and share our
> experiences in
> The Gambia with them to the extent that is possible for me.
>
> Sincerely,
> from a foreigner in The Gambia
> Torstein
> Commit
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 11:13:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: EStew68064@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: New and Curious (Oil off the Gambian coast?)
Message-ID: <970809111323_-220415865@emout18.mail.aol.com>
Sambujang - Dr. David Gamble told me that these rumors about oil in The
GAmbia have existed for at least ten years.
Liz Stewart FAtti
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 20:23:27 +0200
From: "Momodou S Sidibeh" <momodou.sidibeh@stockholm.mail.telia.com>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: SV: New and Curious
Message-ID: <199708091831.UAA25151@d1o2.telia.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Yes, I agree. But only partly. If we should study Fanon, one of the very
first things we will learn from him is that knowing our history and knowing
the circumstances in which our MUM finds herself, returning to her
eventually, to serve any good purpose is not a matter of choice, - like
picking up either Colgate or Pepsodent - but a HISTORIC DUTY. The sort of
fear such as you referred to ( possibility of falling living standards) is
a luxury the average Gambian has no choice over; and when Gambian academics
in this forum allude to some kind of socialism in our country, or suggest
parity between mendicancy in the U.S and in Gambia, then we have a serious
case of pessoptimism (a problem with the way we look at the world). So,
Beckettan or not, this is nothing to laugh at, a discussion
notwithstanding.
Cheers,
Momodou Sidibeh.
----------
Från: BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
Till: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Ämne: RE: New and Curious
Datum: den 8 augusti 1997 16:14
But this will not be done PEACEFULLY UNTIL AND
UNLESS WE RESPECT THE RIGHTS OF PEOPLE TO FEEL AFRAID. BREYTENBACH has said
that to believe that one can make better comrades of militants is to
underestimate human nature. I believe that strongly. Let us first try to
alleviate that FEAR.
Sidibeh.
That is exactly my point! Its quite human and natural that all of us should
be scared of going to a place,our home notwithstanding, where your basic
standard of living has an enormous potential of falling down
drastically.That is given, and I can't agree with you more on that.But I
think the kind of violent sentiments expressed against the messenger here
whose only crime is to inform the children in far away land that MUM is
very sick and very badly needs her children to be around for her to recover
- such screamings for the blood of the messenger,instead of trying to deal
with the content and implication of the message,such irrational and
disproportionate outburst is NOT fear,it is much more than that,it is
Paranoid.And Paranoid ,as all of us know,has a very long chapter in
Abnormal Psychology.And I think there is something cruelly humorous about
fearing not of going home itself,but as Corad has said,"the very idea of
it".This is why I think this whole Becketan Farce is hilarious! That is why
I am laughing.
Regards Bassss!
----------
From: Momodou S Sidibeh[SMTP:momodou.sidibeh@stockholm.mail.telia.com]
Sent: 07 ÔÚÈÇä, 1997 23:00
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
Subject: SV: New and Curious
Bass,
Are you kidding? Of course it is important to go home and do something
useful. But do not all of you and Mr. Grotnes see that being at home in
fact entails even more intense and frequent complains. Is that not what PMJ
is now doing? Yes we are the ones who must ultimately sacrifice to lift up
our country from its mess. But this will not be done PEACEFULLY UNTIL AND
UNLESS WE RESPECT THE RIGHTS OF PEOPLE TO FEEL AFRAID. BREYTENBACH has said
that to believe that one can make better comrades of militants is to
underestimate human nature. I believe that strongly. Let us first try to
alleviate that FEAR.
Sidibeh.
----------
Från: BASSIROU DODOU DRAMMEH <kolls567@qatar.net.qa>
Till: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Ämne: RE: New and Curious
Datum: den 7 augusti 1997 22:03
Not only that,all those Gambians who are now so angry with Mr.Grotnes for
having the audacity to tell them to go home and stop complaining will very
soon start to book for their One-Way trip to Yundum!
Regards Basss!
----------
From: LAURA T RADER[SMTP:LTR6685@owl.forestry.uga.edu]
Sent: 07 ÔÚÈÇä, 1997 15:32
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
Subject: New and Curious
Good Afternoon,
Being new to this mailing list, I don't know what subjects you have
discussed. There is a piece of information that I have been mulling
over for quite some time and I hope that someone can help.
Does anyone know about the oil reserves off the coast of the Gambia?
On the flight during my last visit to the Gambia, I sat next to a man
that apparently was some type of international investor. The man
(whose name escapes me) mentioned to me that there were reserves. He
even went so far as to say that the Gambia was going to become a very
rich country. My first thought was that only a few people and not
the country would become very rich.
This was not the first time that I had heard this information. I
have learned piece mill from different individuals that there were
reserves of oil off of the coast.
Does anyone know if they really exist? If they are marketable, how
can the money stay in the Gambia? Is there an aid organization or
something that can manage this resource and disperse the funds
equally over the Gambia?
If anyone has any information, please let me know. For all I know
there could already be a plan in action. Unfortunately, money is one
of the things that makes the world go around. If this is true it
would be an excellent source of income to the country, not to mention
the jobs it would create.
Thanks and Take Care,
Laura Rader
----------
----------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 22:22:20 +0200
From: momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: New member
Message-ID: <19970809212436.AAA27884@LOCALNAME>
Gambia-l,
Momodou Njie has been added to the list. Welcome to the Gambia-l
Momodou, please send your introduction to the
gambia-l@u.washington.edu and we look forward to your
contributions.
Best regards
Momodou Camara
*******************************************************
http://home3.inet.tele.dk/mcamara
**"Start by doing what's necessary, then what's
possible and suddenly you are doing the impossible"***
------------------------------
Date: 09 Aug 1997 21:24:38 GMT
From: momodou@inform-bbs.dk (Momodou Camara)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Fwd: FINANCE-DEVELOPMEN: IMF Ties 'Good Governance' Conditions To Its Loans
Message-ID: <2440691678.350773134@inform-bbs.dk>
Copyright 1997 InterPress Service, all rights reserved.
Worldwide distribution via the APC networks.
*** 04-Aug-97 ***
Title: FINANCE-DEVELOPMEN: IMF Ties 'Good Governance' Conditions To Its
Loans
By Abid Aslam
WASHINGTON, Aug 4 (IPS) - The International Monetary Fund (IMF) is
to take a more active role in fighting corruption in member
countries - even at the risk of ''tension'' with governments.
The agency's executive directors Monday released guidelines
intended to steer staff in tackling graft and promoting what has
come to be known broadly as 'good governance'. In it they warn
staff to be ready ''to face some tension in the working
relationship with country authorities in specific cases
potentially involving corrupt practices.''
The directive, which follows nearly a year of negotiations
among member countries, comes on the heels of criticism the agency
has tolerated and sometimes abetted corruption - most recently, in
the Kenyan government of Daniel arap Moi and Mobutu Sese Seko's
Zaire.
Borrowing from the World Bank, the agency defines corruption as
''the abuse of public office for private gain''.
Noting that ''the IMF's inolvement in governance should be
limited to economic aspects'', the directors urge agency officials
to push anti-corruption measures by:
- attaching good governance conditions to IMF loans and
programmes;
- routinely assessing government transparency and
accountability during periodic economic reviews conducted by the
agency and its individual members;
- being ''more proactive'' in advocating specific policies and
government reforms aimed at reducing opportunities for corruption
and fraud; and
- working more closely with the World Bank, which has taken the
lead in promoting the donors' vision of reform in such areas as
civil service reform, property rights, and procurement practices.
The IMF will concern itelf primarily with ''institutional
reforms of the treasury, budget preparation and approval
procedures, tax administration, accounting, and audit mechanisms,
central bank operations, and the official statistics function,''
the guidelines state. The agency will also seek greater influence
over the procedures by which governments control their
expenditures and collect revenue.
The point of all this, IMF managing director Michel Camdessus
last month told the Economic Club of New York, is that ''every
country that hopes to maintain market confidence must come to
terms with the issues associated with good governance.''
Activists and analysts alike are troubled by the latest
initiative. ''This is likely to take the IMF into realms where it
doesn't belong,'' says Angela Wood of the London-based Bretton
Woods Reform Project.
Wood is joined by aid officials and observers here who say the
IMF has yet to succeed in its central mission of helping member
countries achieve macroecomic stability. ''This should be the
focus of the institution, not trying to broaden its remit,'' Wood
says.
The agency has had success in improving some countries' balance
of payments, critics concede, but this narrowing of the gap
between national income and expenditures typically has come at a
heavy cost in terms of inequality, which has deepened.
While some critics see the good governance effort - and
particularly the IMF's heavy reliance on conditionality - as a bid
for new leverage over borrowers, others concede the IMF might have
valuable technical expertise to offer countries struggling to rein
in corruption.
Citing the examples of Kenya and the former Zaire, however, one
analyst said of the idea of imposing new conditions on lending:
''If (the IMF) feels money is being siphoned off, it shouldn't
lend in the first place.''
The IMF Thursday night suspended its loans to Nairobi, a move
protrayed in the financial press as evidence of the IMF's
commitment to good governance. Aid officials here complain it was
a long time coming. Says one highly-placed source on condition of
anonymity: ''The IMF has ignored governance issues in Kenya time
and time and time again.''
Criticism of the IMF's handling of relations with Zaire under
Mobutu continues to haunt the agency. In May, it was virtually
accused on the front page of the London 'Financial Times' of
helping Mobutu amass a four-billion-dollar fortune.
''In 1982 the IMF...received a detailed account of Mr. Mobutu's
financial corruption'', the newspaper said. ''However, Western
political pressure for Mr. Mobutu to be bolstered led to IMF
assistance to Zaire substantially increasing following the
report.''
Mobutu's case is understood to have demonstrated, however, that
the agency's own staff and consultants have spoken out on
corruption in the past - and that their voices have been muted by
the agency's leading shareholders. In turn, it has served to fuel
scepticism about the agency's ability to assert its independence.
The new guidelines instruct staffers to limit themselves to
rooting out graft deemed likely to have a significant effect on
the economy, but observers note the document is vague about what
those effects might be and how that likelihood should be assessed.
The IMF and World Bank placed corruption at centre stage during
their annual meetings here last October - and were roundly
criticised by member states, mostly from the developing world, for
seeking to expand their mandate and interfere in sovereign
politics.
The agency's directors acknowlege that ''it is difficult to
separate economic aspects of governance from political aspects.''
Their document, officially a reflection of consensus on the board,
may yet open new rifts by pushing conditionality and asserting the
agency's right ''to seek information about the political situation
in member countries as an essential element in judging the
prospects for policy implementation.'' (END/IPS/AA/97)
Origin: Washington/FINANCE-DEVELOPMEN/
----
[c] 1997, InterPress Third World News Agency (IPS)
All rights reserved
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 09 Aug 1997 20:43:38 +0000
From: "The Gambia-L shadow list" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: New and Curious (Oil off the Gambian coast?)
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970809204338.00673120@mail.commit.gm>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
This is forwarded from Torstein Grotnes <tgr@commit.gm>
(tgr@commit.gm)
At 04:15 AM 8/9/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Of the purported oil reserves in off the Gambian coast, Laura wrote:
>>> Does anyone know if they really exist?
>
>Last I heard, the question was not their existence, but the viability of
>drilling these off-shore reserves. Anyone have any more information on this?
>
>- Francis
I have noticed in The Gambia that some people use the lack of oil and other
natural resources
as an argument for the peaceful attitude in The Gambia and a hope for a
peaceful development
as according to the Vison 2020!?
So what will happen if there is found large oilreserves outside The Gambia?
I believe Large oilcooperations like shell/elf etc. tends to keep a very low
morale when they pursue their
eternal search for more income and new oilfields.
Would not the aspect of a multi-billion oil income also attract unwanted
attention?
And since money is power, and power corrupts, will all Gambia benefit from
such a
large income?!
Another question is if the fisheries will be influenced by this?
Torstein
The Gambia
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 23:37:19 +0200
From: momodou.camara@post3.tele.dk (Camara, Momodou)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: New and Curious (Oil off the Gambian coast?)
Message-ID: <19970809223936.AAA10758@LOCALNAME>
On 9 Aug 97 at 4:15, Francis Njie wrote:
> Last I heard, the question was not their existence, but the
> viability of drilling these off-shore reserves. Anyone have any more
> information on this?
>
Gambia-l,
Here is a message from one of the veterans of this mailing list.
Infact, it was back in 1995 when we used the email address of Katim
before the establishment of Gambia-l at the present location. That was
the time we used to send cola nuts to each other.
Lamin used to be in Norway but he just disappeared from the
list.
____________________________________________
On 4. December 1995 at 12.59.45 Lamin Drammeh
"On the issue of petroleum, I would first like to mention that I
completed my MSc in petroleum Geophysics otherwise called Seismics.
Again I understood the general lack of understanding on this issue. I
travelled last to Gambia in March 1995 and had discussions with the
respective authorities in this area. What transpired from these
consultations were that the preliminary seismic studies on Petroleum
showed prospects of Oil in The Gambia. Only Prospects. This was not
surprising to me considering the topography and sandstone subsurface
to mention a few. However this studies has to be followed by detail
Seismic and Geological studies to confirm the previous results which
has not yet been accomplished. Senegal our next day neighbour also
undertook similar researches and infact their detail seismic results
confirmed the presence of Oil. In any case, finding Oil is one thing
and to attract investors is another which depend largely on
profitability. Egocentric if you ask me. Even the research into
Petroleum is extremely expensive with just one seismic boat costing
hundreds of thousands if not millions of Dollars. Furthermore, it
involves several disciplines like prospecting, processing,
interpretation all of which are under Geophysics. Other disciplines
involves Geologist of different fields, petrophysicists,
Petrochemists, Reservoir physicists, reservoir geologists, reservoir
Engineers, Engineers, Mathematicians, Computer experts, the list goes
on, who co-ordinate and build their researches on data from previous
studies. Do you really think The Gambia can do this alone? Even
Norway, a highly industrialize state had to bring in knowhow and
capital to extract their oil and the presence of these multinational
companies is still quite vivid after 20 years of oil adventure. Middle
east countries- Kuwait, Saudi, Iran, Irak etc are entirely dependent
on foreign expertise to carry out this work. Afterall research is
always co-ordinative and co-orperative.
Discussion on health and education will come soon.
Thanks
Lamin"
_____________________END___________________________________
Note: The above piece was written by one Lamin Drammeh (Norway) who is
no more on the Gambia-L.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 04:25:24 +0100
From: "The Gambia-L shadow list" <gambia-l@commit.gm>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Development of subsaharan africa (God & Productivity)
Message-ID: <B0000003386@south.commit.gm>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
This is forwarded from "Pa Musa Jallow" <pmj@commit.gm>
(pmj@commit.gm)
Francis,
Thank you for a superb submission i cannot agree more..this
fatalism..maslah hypocrisy is a convenient subterfuge /excuse for
inaction..in The Gambia and our subregion where Islam is dominant..this is
pervasive and is partly manifested in the proliferation of beggars and
...in my understanding and interpretation of Islam..there is no real
basis or justification for this attitude..I will contend..
Islam is the yongest of the world's dominant religions and probably the
most militant..in a dynamic sense..take for example..(in context)..where
Christianity urges you to turn the other cheek..Islam preaches
Ichtihad..commonly misnomered as Jihad..which literally means Striving
/Undertaking..Islam preaches 3 forms of Ichtihad..if there is a wrong or
something is not right, the first principle is to right that
wrong..fighting if neccessary; the second is to speak out against
it..campaign..and the third is barring the ability to do the former two..to
repudiate the wrong in your heart (or mind)..
claiming its God's will does not hold brief in my opinion..was Hitler's
genocide or the massacres in Rwanda God's will or are we not suppose to
repudiate and denounce such?..
our fatalism and our masslah..now practically the ability to put up with
everything is just a way not to have to fight..mentally, physically or
otherwise anything or for anything..
Our form of Beggary is unique..Islam actively discourages Begging but
encourages assisting the less fortunate..in individual capacity..to be able
to assist..you have to do better i suppose..here it is prostitution of
poverty, disability, or even a sheer business..if a beggar at the steps of
the Kairaba Supermarket nets tax-free D50- 60 a day,,that is about
D1500-1800 a month..that is the income of a middle -level civil servant in
The Gambia..NOT BAD BUSINESS with ZERO OVERHEAD etc..and our dominantly
muslim society's way of easing (sometimes) our collective
social conscience, its like the buying of penance that in the middle ages
the reformers of Christianity had to fight.
I will also contend that our new form of 'psuedo-colonial' governments are
partly responsible for the lack of appreciation of 'practical'
productivity..the peasant farmers who had to be hit with a HUT TAX to
induce them into this western cash economies..never relied on anyone but
their selves..they produced to their ability and prospered or stayed poor
as dictated by their selves..there were poor and wealthy farmers..the
induction to pay a HUT TAX in POUNDS then, required them to grow something
that sold..not necessary what they required or thought they needed..hence
cash crops..groundnuts, cocoa etc..with Independence and I contend again, a
very have-developed democratic idea and practice..the buying of votes
through pandering or economic trade-offs like new projects, free this and
free that and the POLITICS of PROMISES..weakened self-reliance and
productivity..in The Gambia..its is sing song..we need this..we need
that.from Govt., from Donors, NGOs,
etc..its GIVE,GIVE, GIVE..
How do we change this? Reality..this is not sustainable and is already
changing..external factors include so-called DONOR FATIGUE, change in the
GOVERNING CLASS..it is common knowledge that 70-80% of AID funding is
repatriated or stays in the DONOR country mostly in the form of
EXPERTS/CONSULTANTS etc..if we change the CURRENT Terms of Reference..we
will feel the PINCH in the short term as we already have..in the
Reagan/Thatchers 80s and currently as RIGHT and RIGHT OF CENTER GOVT.s
prevail in the WEST..this has forced a lot of CHANGES..actually
PRODUCTIVITY which declined shortly after the INDEPENDENCE YEARS has
started GROWING in subsaharan Africa...reforming our Internal Mechanisms
will liberate our POTENTIAL..
I will break off for now..but THANKS for a GREAT PIECE, FRANCIS
pmj
----------
> From: Francis Njie <c3p0@xsite.net>
> To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: Development of subsaharan africa (God & Productivity)
> Date: Saturday, August 09, 1997 10:04 AM
>
> I would go further and claim that the necessary understanding of the
> necessity of productivity is lacking in the Gambia (and probably in most
of
> sub-Saharan Africa for that matter). The necessary appreciation of the
> principle (and natural fact) that you cannot get something for nothing is
> hindered by, among other things, the convenient interpretation of
> resource-hardships as God's doing-- "N'dogal i yaalla la" (i.e. "It's
God's
> wish/doing"), "God will provide", etc, are beliefs that are rather
> ingrained in Gambian culture. This makes for an unclear idea of where
> wealth/money/development comes from.
>
> How do we change such fatalism and its undesirable effect on Gambian
> productivity? I don't think there is even a decent chance, culture being
as
> nebulous as it is, that this can be changed in the conceivable future.
> However, it is clear that this fundamental change does not have to take
> place in the general populace for the Gambian economy to be more
efficient.
> If the ruling class succeeds in tilting the terms for reward (from
nepotism
> to productivity/meritocracy, if you will), the average Gambian will have
to
> comply with these terms whether or not his/her understanding of
> productivity is sound. This is the case in the United States. Although
the
> average American's understanding of productivity or its necessity is
> arguably minimal, his/her appreciation of the practical necessity of
> productivity in his/her life is clear-- The average American knows that
> he/she has to produce to, well, survive...
>
> - Francis
> PS: The convenient use of religion and God to explain reality also
pervades
> our political culture. Our leadership gets off easy with statements like
> "Tedu yaalla a len fa tajj" (i.e. "God has his reasons for putting them
in
> power"). In short, the capacity of the individual to plot the course of
> his/her life is not fully realized/appreciated (which would explain why
> democracy is not fully realized in sub-Saharan Africa). Hence, the
> outrageous freedom enjoyed by our leadership to run amuck and clown as
they
> wish.
>
>
------------------------------
End of GAMBIA-L Digest 80
************************* |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
| Bantaba in Cyberspace |
© 2005-2024 Nijii |
|
|
|
gambia-l:LOG9708C - Digest 80
