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Momodou
Denmark
11513 Posts |
 Posted - 17 Jun 2021 : 21:50:13
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GAMBIA-L Digest 2
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Configuring our mailing list ...
by Katim S. Touray <touray@hope.soils.wisc.edu>
2) Mail acknowledgement ...
by Katim S. Touray <touray@hope.soils.wisc.edu>
3) Guinean Soldiers Protest (fwd)
by "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu>
4) Guinean capital quieter after weekend mutiny (fwd)
by "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu>
5) Re: INTRODUCTIONS
by MANSALA@aol.com
6) Re: mail previously sent (fwd)
by SHAFTR@ucipm.ucdavis.edu
7) Re: mail previously sent (fwd)
by "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu>
8) Re: mail previously sent (fwd)
by "Roddie L. Cole" <rcole@ced.berkeley.edu>
9) Re: mail previously sent (fwd)
by sarian@osmosys.incog.com (Sarian Loum)
10) Re: mail previously sent (fwd)
by "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu>
11) Re: mail previously sent (fwd)
by Amadou Scattred Janneh <AJANNEH@pstcc.cc.tn.us>
12) VOICE FROM THE WILDERNESS!!!
by <JDG.L.LANGE.LWCLK@CO.HENNEPIN.MN.US>
13) RESPONSE TO RODDIE'S COMMENTS ON UNITED AFRICA
by <JDG.L.LANGE.LWCLK@CO.HENNEPIN.MN.US>
14) Re: VOICE FROM THE WILDERNESS!!!
by "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu>
15) Re: RESPONSE TO RODDIE'S COMMENTS ON UNITED AFRICA (fwd)
by "Roddie L. Cole" <rcole@ced.berkeley.edu>
16) Re: RESPONSE TO RODDIE'S COMMENT
by <JDG.L.LANGE.LWCLK@CO.HENNEPIN.MN.US>
17) Re: RESPONSE TO RODDIE'S COMMENT
by <JDG.L.LANGE.LWCLK@CO.HENNEPIN.MN.US>
18) POSTSCRIPT
by <JDG.L.LANGE.LWCLK@CO.HENNEPIN.MN.US>
19) Teething problems, and stuff ...
by Katim S. Touray <touray@hope.soils.wisc.edu>
20) Re: POSTSCRIPT
by <JDG.L.LANGE.LWCLK@CO.HENNEPIN.MN.US>
21) problems
by Abdourahman Touray <at137@columbia.edu>
22) Re: POSTSCRIPT
by binta@iuj.ac.jp
23) Re: problems
by binta@iuj.ac.jp
24) Re: POSTSCRIPT
by "Roddie L. Cole" <rcole@ced.berkeley.edu>
25) Re: POSTSCRIPT
by <JDG.L.LANGE.LWCLK@CO.HENNEPIN.MN.US>
26) Re: POSTSCRIPT
by Amadou Scattred Janneh <AJANNEH@pstcc.cc.tn.us>
27) Re: POSTSCRIPT
by Gabriel Ndow <gndow@auc.edu>
28) Re: POSTSCRIPT
by "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu>
29) Re: POSTSCRIPT (fwd)
by "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu>
30) Re: POSTSCRIPT
by <JDG.L.LANGE.LWCLK@CO.HENNEPIN.MN.US>
31) Re: POSTSCRIPT
by "Roddie L. Cole" <rcole@ced.berkeley.edu>
32) Why the Confederation failed
by Amadou Scattred Janneh <AJANNEH@pstcc.cc.tn.us>
33) SIERRA LEONE/ATTACK (L) [3] By PURNELL MURDOCK/ABIDJAN
by Amadou Scattred Janneh <AJANNEH@pstcc.cc.tn.us>
34) Re: Why the Confederation failed
by binta@iuj.ac.jp
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 4 Feb 96 19:47:55 CST
From: Katim S. Touray <touray@hope.soils.wisc.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Configuring our mailing list ...
Message-ID: <9602050147.AA27996@hope.soils.wisc.edu>
Hi folks,
i'm writing to follow up on my letter of last night. i hope you got it. i mentioned that i had set up the
list for new subscription and error managers. i thought and still think that the list is configured to
send you a copy of your mail, but i did not get a copy of what i sent out last night. anyway, i've written
to the help desk at Seattle explaining to them what is going on. hopefully, this will help. i also explained
the difficulty i've had trying to access the archive. as soon as we get this squared away, i'll try to
complete the welcome and info files so we can send them out. also, we'd inform everyone how to access the
archived files at their convenience. it shouldn't be a big deal after we work out the bugs.
regarding the list subscriptions and errors, i've decided to divide the world into a number of regions, each
managed by a volunteer. the regions are: Africa and the Middle East, Asia-Pacific, Europe, and the Americas.
In addition, we'll have sections based on top-level domain names such as 'org', 'com', and 'net'. the
allocations of responsibilities are proposed as follows:
SUBSCRIPTION MANAGERS:
COORDINATOR: Amadou Janneh
Amadou Janneh - AFRICA AND THE MIDDLE EAST
ASIA-PACIFIC
Sarian Loum - EUROPE
THE AMERICAS
Latjorr Ndow - .ORG
.NET
.EDU
ERROR MANAGERS:
COORDINATOR: Lamin Drammeh (Japan)
Lamin Drammeh (Japan) - AFRICA AND THE MIDDLE EAST
ASIA-PACIFIC
Abdourahman Touray - EUROPE
THE AMERICAS
Another volunteer? - .ORG
.NET
.EDU
the obvious question then is, how do we know when a request for subscription is coming from Japan, or Jamaica?.
to solve this problem, i am editing a list of country codes that are used in Internet addresses. thus, when
we see anything ending in '.jp' it'd be Lamin's job to follow up (if it's an error), or Amadou's job (if it's
a subscription request). note that while we all get requests for subscriptions (since they get copied to the
list), error messages will only go to the error managers. however, the list of country codes will still help
them decide who takes care of what. that way, we won't end up with two guys running after the same rabbit. like
i said, i'm working on editing the list, and will send it out by tomorrow (Monday, feb. 5), or tuesday.
it would be nice if we can have another volunteer error manager. this will ease out the load for Lamin and
Abdou. however, it shouldn't be too bad if we can't get it for now. hopefully, we would not be having a lot
of errors to deal with.
that's about all for now. have a great week, and don't work too hard.
bye,
Katim
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 4 Feb 96 20:27:59 CST
From: Katim S. Touray <touray@hope.soils.wisc.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Mail acknowledgement ...
Message-ID: <9602050227.AA28127@hope.soils.wisc.edu>
Hi folks,
i'm writing, again!, about the problem of not getting copies of our mail. it
might sound like a trivial problem, without any consequence. however, a larger
moral (yes, moral!) issue is that this list is supposed to work like that.
there's either a problem in the documentation of the program, or there's a bug
in the thing. when i issue a review of the configuration settings, it shows
that the list defaults to sending everyone a copy of mail they send. however,
i have not been getting copies of mine. and when i review the current settings
for my subscriptions, it indeed showed that i was not supposed to get copies
of mail i sent (MAIL NOACK). i know all this is getting a bit too much. to
get around the problem, you can send mail to the address:
listproc@u.washingto.edu
with the command:
set gambia-l mail ack
the command is the e-mail you send the program. forget about the Subject and
other headers. also, you can get a listing of your current status by sending
the command:
set gambia-l
to the same address.
to give you a head start on communicating with Listproc, the program that runs
the list, i am appending the User Reference Card with this e-mail for you to
look at when you have time. like i said, we'll be archiving this and other
info when we get things worked out.
that's all.
Katim
=========================== Start of Listproc User Reference Card ==========
List Processor 7.O
Copyright (c) 1993 - 94 by
The Corporation for Research and Educational Networking (CREN)
User Reference
Here is a brief description of the set of user requests recognized by the
ListProcessor. This file is intended only as a reference guide to list
processor requests. For a complete explanation of how the list processor
works, more detailed information on requests listed below, and examples of how
to submit requests to the listprocessor, please read the Listprocessor User
Manual.
The Listproc 7.1 User Manual and Owner Manual are available from the
vendor via anonymous ftp at ftp.cren.net as postscript files. The names
are listproc/ownerman.ps and listproc/userman.ps.
Everything appearing in [] below is optional; everything appearing in <> is
mandatory; all arguments are case insensitive. The vertical bar ("|") is used
as a logical OR operator between the arguments. Please note that the brackets
or braces or parentheses themselves are NEVER a part of the request. In the
syntax examples below, the word "list" must be replaced by the name of the
list for which your request applies. In cases where a password is called for,
the word "password" must be replaced by your list password or a password given
you by the list owners. Requests may be abbreviated, but you must give at
least as many characters as needed to distinguish the request from other
requests or at least enter the first three characters.
Keep in mind that when referring to a <list>, that list may be of two kinds:
local or remote, unless otherwise noted. Local lists are those which are run
from the same host to which you are sending your e-mail request. Remote lists
are those running on other hosts. When referring to a local list, your
request will be immediately processed; when referring to a remote list (a list
served by another ListProcessor on another machine which this system knows
about), your request will be appropriately forwarded. Issue a 'LISTS' request
to get a listing of all local and known remote lists to this ListProcessor.
Recognized requests are:
HELP [topic]
Without arguments a file giving a brief description of all requests. Otherwise
get specific information on the selected topic. Topics may also refer to
requests. To learn more about this system issue a 'HELP LISTPROC' request. To
get a listing of all available topics, send a message saying 'HELP ALL'.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
LISTS [local|global [keywords]]
Get a list of all local mailing lists served by this server (LISTS LOCAL), or
of all known local and remote lists (LISTS GLOBAL) and a one line description
of each list. You MUST specify local or global in a LISTS request. Adding a
keyword to the LISTS request causes the listprocessor to search only for those
lists containing that keyword in its list name or one line description. If
multiple keywords are specified, they are treated as a logically ANDed list
of strings/regular expressions, that is, only names of lists containing ALL
of the keywords will be returned. Keywords can be surrounded by quotes but
that is not required. Only those lists' descriptions that match the keywords
are listed.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
RELEASE
VERSION
Get information about the current release of this ListProcessor system.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
INFORMATION [list]
This file if no list is specified, otherwise get information about the
specified list.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
RECIPIENTS <list>
Get a list of all recipients (subscribers) of one list. The review request
can also be used for this purpose.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
REVIEW <list> [short|description|subscribers]
Every list has associated with it a series of attributes which determine how
the list operates and what privleges you have in sending requests to the
listprocessor concerning the list. The review request allows you to get the
list's attributes or settings. Review <list> will send you a short file of
general information about the list and a listing of the current unconcealed
subscribers for the specified list. "Review <list> short" or "review <list>
description" will result in your receiving only the short description file,
not the subscribers. "Review <list> subscribers" allows you to get only the
non-concealed subscribers list. If a list is private, members only may issue
this request. If the list is linked with any peer lists, your request will be
forwarded to the appropriate server(s) also, except when the request is live,
using ilp.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
RUN <list> [<password> <cmd [args]>]
In some cases a list owner or manager will set up an executable program or a
script for subscribers to a particular list. The "Run" request will run the
script or program on your behalf. The "Run" request may be sent with the
optional arguments, if any are necessary. And you will receive the output
from stdout and/or stderr. To get a listing of all available commands to run,
omit the arguments, i.e. issue a 'run <list>' request. You have to belong to
the specified list, and must have obtained the password from the list's owner;
the owner's address may be found in the Errors-To: header line of each
delivered message.
NOTE: DO NOT send a run request to the listprocessor unless the list manager
or owner has specifically told you that you can do this.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
SET <list> [<option> <arg[s]>]
Each subscriber to a list has a series of five types of personal attributes or
settings associated with the subscription to the list. These five settings
determine how mail is sent to the subscriber by the list, what the
subscriber's password is, what the e-mail address the list processor knows the
user by, whether other subscribers can know if the person is subscribed to the
list, and a set of personal preferences for the list. The "set" request sent
without the optional arguments, sends back a list of all current settings for
the specified list. Otherwise change the option to a new value for that list.
Valid arguments are:
mail <ACK|NOACK|POSTPONE|DIGEST>
ACK causes the list processor to send you a copy of all mail you send
to a list.
NOACK prevents the list processor from sending you copies of mail you
send to a list.
password <current-password> <new-password> change your list password.
address <current-password> <new-address> change the e-mail address that
you are registered with.
conceal <YES|NO> If set to yes, your name will be omitted from the list of
subscribers if someone requests such a list.
preference [preferences]
Issue a 'help set' request for more information.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
QUERY <list>
Same as 'set <list>' with no arguments.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
STATISTICS <list> {[subscriber email-address(es)] | [-all]}
Get a listing of non-concealed subscribers along with the number of messages
each one of them has sent to the specified list. If the optional email
addresses are given, then statistics will be collected for these users only.
For example: stat foo-list john@address1.domain mary@address2.domain will
generate statistics about these two subscribers to a list called foo-list.
"-all" compiles statistics for all users that have posted on the list
(whether currently subscribed or not). If this request is submitted by the
list owner it will return all subscribers; when submitted by anyone else it
will return only non-concealed subscribers.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
SUBSCRIBE <list> <your name>
JOIN <list> <your name>
The only way to subscribe to a list. Either subscribe or join may be used as
the request.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
UNSUBSCRIBE <list>
SIGNOFF <list>
Remove yourself from the specified list.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
PURGE <password>
Remove yourself from all local lists known to this host. You must use a valid
password from one of the lists to which you are subscribed.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
WHICH
Get a listing of local mailing lists to which you have subscribed. There are
no options with this request, it is sent as a single word.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
FAX <fax-number> <archive | path-to-archive> <file> [/password] [parts]
Same as 'get', but it faxes you the files instead to the specified number.
In some cases the host running the list processor will have access to a fax
modem. This request allows you to obtain text files by having them faxed to
you.
NOTE: DO NOT send this request unless the list owner or manager has
specifically told you that the host has access to a fax modem and that you are
able to do this.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
GET <archive | path-to-archive> <file> [/password] [parts]
Get the requested file from the specified archive Files are usually split in
parts locally, and in such a case you will receive the file in multiple email
messages -- an 'index' request tells you how many parts the file has been
split into, their sizes, and the path to the archive; if you need to obtain
certain parts, specify them as optional arguments. If an archive is private,
you have to provide its password as well.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
INDEX [archive | path-to-archive] [/password] [-all]
Get a list of files in the selected archive, or the master archive if no
archive was specified. If an archive is private, you have to provide its
password as well. The path to the archive is returned with the index.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
SEARCH <archive | path-to-archive>] [/password] [-all] <pattern>
Search all files of the specified archive (and all of its subarchives if -all
is specified) for lines that match the pattern. The pattern can be an
egrep(l)-style regular expression with support for the following additional
operators: ' ' (negation), '|' and '&' (logical OR and AND), '<' '>' (group
regular expressions). The pattern may be enclosed in single or double quotes.
Note: . matches any character including new line.
view <archive | path-to-archive>] [/password] [parts]
Same as 'get' but in interactive mode justs catenates the file on the screen.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Help is available on each of the above requests. Help is also available on
the following topics:
listproc: Learn more about this system and list management software in
general.
live: Learn how to connect to this ListProcessor over the Internet with an
interactive client for live processing of your requests.
======================== End of Listproc User Reference Card ============
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 09:17:18 -0800 (PST)
From: "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Guinean Soldiers Protest (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.91l.960205091526.21143B-100000@saul6.u.washington.edu>
FYI - in response to inquiries or concerns about Guinea, Conakry.
Thanks
Tony
========================================================================
Anthony W Loum tloum@u.washington.edu
Supervisor, Business Administration Library 206-543-4360 voice
100 Balmer Hall 206-685-9392 fax
University of Washington
Box 353200
Seattle, Wa.98195-3200
=========================================================================
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 15:40:15 PST
From: AP <C-ap@clari.net>
Newgroups: clari.world.africa.western, clari.news.conflict.misc,
clari.world.gov.politics, clari.world.africa, clari.news.conflict
Subject: Guinean Soldiers Protest
CONAKRY, Guinea (AP) -- Soldiers demanding back pay and the
firing of the defense minister went on a shooting rampage Friday,
killing at least eight civilians. State radio reported a coup was
imminent.
The president sacked Defense Minister Col. Abdourahmane Diallo,
who the soldiers claim denied them raises and promotions. President
Lansana Conte also went on state-run national radio, asking the
soldiers to meet him at an army camp for talks.
The radio announced a coup was imminent at about 1 p.m. and
played music for the rest of the day. People stayed in their homes
and offices. A curfew was in place and the airport was closed. The
main road leading the center of the capital was blocked off.
``There are soldiers on the streets and in cars, shooting
randomly out of the windows and in the air,'' said Deborah Grieser,
acting public affairs officer at the U.S. Embassy in Conakry.
She said the president's comments on the radio indicated there
were two groups of soldiers, one on strike and the other plotting a
coup. She quoted Conte as saying: ``For those of you who were
interested in taking power: Get off the streets.''
Conte has ruled this West African country, one of world's
poorest, since he seized power in a 1984 military coup. He won in
the country's first elections in 1993. But the elections were
marred by violence, missing ballots and accusations that the
government discounted the votes of political exiles.
The uprising follows coups in two other West African countries.
The president of Niger was ousted in a bloody coup on Jan. 27. On
Jan. 17, the military ruler of Sierra Leone was ousted by army
officers six weeks before planned elections to transfer the country
to civilian rule.
--
This is the NEW RELEASE of the ClariNet e.News! If you notice any
problems with the new edition, please mail us at editor@clari.net and
let us know. Thanks! More information can be found on our web site at
http://www.clari.net/ or in clari.net.announce.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 09:24:22 -0800 (PST)
From: "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Guinean capital quieter after weekend mutiny (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.91l.960205092317.21143C-100000@saul6.u.washington.edu>
Latest from on Guinea.
Tony
========================================================================
Anthony W Loum tloum@u.washington.edu
Supervisor, Business Administration Library 206-543-4360 voice
100 Balmer Hall 206-685-9392 fax
University of Washington
Box 353200
Seattle, Wa.98195-3200
=========================================================================
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 3:30:05 PST
From: Reuter / Foday Fofanah <C-reuters@clari.net>
Newgroups: clari.world.africa.western, clari.world.military,
clari.news.conflict.misc, clari.world.africa, clari.news.conflict
Subject: Guinean capital quieter after weekend mutiny
CONAKRY, Feb 5 (Reuter) - Sporadic shooting crackled across
the Guinean capital Conakry on Monday after a weekend of
violence when a pay dispute turned into a rebellion against
President Lansana Conte.
Residents said few people ventured out on the usually
crowded streets and taxis were charging double the normal fare.
Gunfire had been heard in the morning.
Fuel was in short supply as two main petrol stations had
been burned down and looters had cleared out shops.
Conte assumed extra powers on Sunday as Guinea's defence
minister to deal with the grievances of troops who shelled the
presidential palace on Friday and Saturday.
``As from today I am the minister of national defence and
any problems facing the army should be brought directly to me,''
Conte told about 1,000 troops on Sunday.
``I plead with you to accept your January salaries. As from
February, your pay rise will be effective.''
Medical sources said up to 40 people might have been killed
and dozens wounded in battles pitting mutinous soldiers against
Conte loyalists or during the widespread looting. Many of the
dead were civilians.
Residents said soldiers drove off with cars from showrooms
or hijacked others from motorists, including diplomats.
Rioting broke out on Friday morning and Conte quickly met
one of the soldiers' demands by sacking his defence minister,
Lieutenant-Colonel Abdourahmane Diallo, a close associate.
Conte said his office in the presidential palace was
ransacked by soldiers after it was set ablaze by shellfire.
Documents and his own radio were among the items looted.
Guinea's parliament has heard calls from both the opposition
and the presidential majority for more cash for poorly-paid
soldiers. Civil servants received an 18 percent pay rise in
January but the army did not.
Officials said Conakry international airport had reopened on
Sunday and flights had resumed.
Guinea, a bauxite producer with a wealth of unexploited
minerals and precious stones under its soil, is currently
observing the Moslem fasting month of Ramadan.
Conte, 61, seized power in the volatile, impoverished
country in an army coup in 1984, after the death of Marxist
leader Ahmed Sekou Toure, who ruled from independence from
France in 1958.
Scores of people were killed during campaigning for a
December 1993 presidential election which returned Conte to
power amid opposition charges of massive fraud. Parliamentary
elections in June 1995 passed off more peacefully and the
country had been relatively calm since then.
--
This is the NEW RELEASE of the ClariNet e.News! If you notice any
problems with the new edition, please mail us at editor@clari.net and
let us know. Thanks! More information can be found on our web site at
http://www.clari.net/ or in clari.net.announce.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 07:54:15 -0500
From: MANSALA@aol.com
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: INTRODUCTIONS
Message-ID: <960206075415_415738794@mail02.mail.aol.com>
SUBJECT: RE- INTRODUCTION
DATE: 96-02-06.
FROM: MOMODOU KOLLEY
REPLY: HI FOLKS,
My name is momodou kolley, residing in the seattle area. I
graduated from
Nusrat high school in the Gambia. Came to the U.S in 1980 and graduated from
college in 1987. I am presently a production manager for a Japanese
company.
I am glad to part of the Gambia on line group. I hope every one is keeping
up with the ramadan.
------------------------------
Date: 06 Feb 96 15:41:17 PST
From: SHAFTR@ucipm.ucdavis.edu
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: mail previously sent (fwd)
Message-ID: <9602062337.AA15654@mx5.u.washington.edu>
Tony,
Not sure whether I'll get through to everybody
nut but I'm trying again. Roddie has suggested that
I use the reply to function and see what happens. I
did not receive Katim's last message either. Sam!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 18:12:34 -0800 (PST)
From: "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu>
To: SHAFTR@ucipm.ucdavis.edu
Cc: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issuess Mailing List" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: mail previously sent (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.91l.960206181057.23627A-100000@saul6.u.washington.edu>
Sammy, it seems that you got through to everybody on the list time. Can
someone else please confirm whether Sammy's message has been received
besides me.
Thanks
Tony
On 6 Feb 1996 SHAFTR@ucipm.ucdavis.edu wrote:
> Tony,
> Not sure whether I'll get through to everybody
> nut but I'm trying again. Roddie has suggested that
> I use the reply to function and see what happens. I
> did not receive Katim's last message either. Sam!
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 18:32:31 -0800 (PST)
From: "Roddie L. Cole" <rcole@ced.berkeley.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Cc: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issuess Mailing List" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: mail previously sent (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.90.960206183157.21058B-100000@chabot.ced.berkeley.edu>
Sam's message received loud and clear (but then I'm only a few miles north
of the fella).
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 18:27:03 -0800
From: sarian@osmosys.incog.com (Sarian Loum)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: mail previously sent (fwd)
Message-ID: <199602070227.SAA01816@thesky.incog.com>
received it.
Sarian
> From GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu Tue Feb 6 18:18 PST 1996
> Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 18:12:34 -0800 (PST)
> From: "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu>
> To: "GAMBIA-L\: The Gambia and Related Issuess Mailing List" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: mail previously sent (fwd)
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> X-To: SHAFTR@ucipm.ucdavis.edu
> X-Cc: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issuess Mailing List" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
> X-Sender: tloum@saul6.u.washington.edu
> X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN
>
>
> Sammy, it seems that you got through to everybody on the list time. Can
> someone else please confirm whether Sammy's message has been received
> besides me.
> Thanks
> Tony
>
>
>
>
> On 6 Feb 1996 SHAFTR@ucipm.ucdavis.edu wrote:
>
> > Tony,
> > Not sure whether I'll get through to everybody
> > nut but I'm trying again. Roddie has suggested that
> > I use the reply to function and see what happens. I
> > did not receive Katim's last message either. Sam!
> >
> >
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 18:43:07 -0800 (PST)
From: "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: mail previously sent (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.91l.960206184017.23627H@saul6.u.washington.edu>
Sarian, Roddie and myself have received it, so I assume that everybody
else in gambia-l did. So, Sammy you are now in busy . How about Moro in
Minneapolis ?
Thanks
Tony
On Tue, 6 Feb 1996, Roddie L. Cole wrote:
> Sam's message received loud and clear (but then I'm only a few miles north
> of the fella).
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 06 Feb 1996 23:12:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: Amadou Scattred Janneh <AJANNEH@pstcc.cc.tn.us>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: mail previously sent (fwd)
Message-ID: <01I0WS9FL7C28WW0BA@pstcc.cc.tn.us>
Received.
Amadou!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 96 09:54:08 CST
From: <JDG.L.LANGE.LWCLK@CO.HENNEPIN.MN.US>
To: Gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: VOICE FROM THE WILDERNESS!!!
Message-ID: <9602071554.AA07125@mx4.u.washington.edu>
GAMBIA-L:
I AM HOPING THAT I AM NOW SUBSCRIBED TO GAMBIA-L AND ALL OF YOU WILL
RECEIVE THIS. IF YOU'VE GOT THE MAIL, AND YOU CAN, PLEASE RESPOND . . .
MORRO.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 96 09:56:16 CST
From: <JDG.L.LANGE.LWCLK@CO.HENNEPIN.MN.US>
To: Gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: RESPONSE TO RODDIE'S COMMENTS ON UNITED AFRICA
Message-ID: <9602071556.AA07424@mx4.u.washington.edu>
HELLO GAMBIA-L:
Again I find myself concurring with Roddie but with a slight
modification. Roddie, I am not sure what you mean when you say
you do not advocate a united Africa as a political ideal. If I
should understand you to mean that you are interested in political
unity only because of its potential social & economic yields, I can
agree. A political experiment with no social or economic relevance
is a foolhardy and possibly, dangerous exercise. But here is where I
am a little confused . . . Is there such a thing as a union (as a
"political ideal") so barren as to be completely unyielding of
anything of substance? To answer this question, one must first
define "union as a political ideal." Should that task be accomplished
and the question still answered in the affirmative, I would promptly
dissent. I am not convinced that one can successfully define the
term and exclude all substantial goals and desires of a polity.
The goal I presume we all agree is political, social and economic
progress (life, liberty, and happiness). Social, political, and
economic union is a means to social, political and economic
stability. Stability in turn is an indispensable means to the primary
end of social, political and economic progress (life, liberty, and
happiness).
I am well aware that one can very well apply the means, and not
attain the end. But to attain the end, one must first apply the
means. The three prongs of the means--political, economic and
social--are necessary to each other, at least in the African context.
The simultaneous application of all three as the means ensures unity
of planning and execution, which in turn are crucial to stability and
hence the primary end of progress.
The prospect of social and economic dynamism (economic & social
linkage) without the encumbrances of political union was and still
is attractive. One may be swayed by the choice of "economic
union" over out-right "political union", but this is a false choice.
To succeed, it's an all or nothing deal.
If one accepts the contention that several of the ills of the African
State are borne of the drive for separatism (social, economic and
especially political), then one must also agree, singularity (especially
political singularity) must have something to do with the cure.
Unity of action can be guaranteed only under circumstances of
much greater centralization than exist today at the continental level-
-African unity (as an ideal, as a very practical means to a much
desired end).
And Katim: I do accept your challenge to . . . "wake me up." (and I
laugh)
So long,
Morro
P.S.
This was previously mailed. But through some glitch, Gambia-l may not have
received it. Tony has now corrected the error. If you've already got this
accept my apologies for the duplication. Roddie, Katim, and Tony, did you
previously receive?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 08:41:40 -0800 (PST)
From: "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Cc: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issuess Mailing List" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: VOICE FROM THE WILDERNESS!!!
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.91l.960207083634.22013C-100000@saul3.u.washington.edu>
Morro, we are now in business. You are now in Gambia-l. I received both
of your last two postings.
Thanks
Tony
On Wed, 7 Feb 1996 JDG.L.LANGE.LWCLK@CO.HENNEPIN.MN.US wrote:
>
> GAMBIA-L:
>
> I AM HOPING THAT I AM NOW SUBSCRIBED TO GAMBIA-L AND ALL OF YOU WILL
> RECEIVE THIS. IF YOU'VE GOT THE MAIL, AND YOU CAN, PLEASE RESPOND . . .
>
> MORRO.
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 12:46:07 -0800 (PST)
From: "Roddie L. Cole" <rcole@ced.berkeley.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: RESPONSE TO RODDIE'S COMMENTS ON UNITED AFRICA (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.90.960207124500.10395C-100000@chabot.ced.berkeley.edu>
I did receive the first version Let me respond briefly.
I'm not sure this is a case of "all or
nothing". After all, the EU is still debating on the issue of
just how much of a nation-state's sovereignty needs to be
compromised in order to get the full benefits of an
integrated economy.
For me, the determining factor is simple.
Given the reality of African politics, as much as is possible of
the policy making process needs to be removed from the political
arena.
The implied criticism is not only leveled at politicians but also to
society at large. We expect "kith-and-kin", ethnic and similar
factors to be dominant criterion in the distribution of common
resources (is it a coincidence that all of a sudden, Pierre Goudiaby
is geting one architectural job after another in The Gambia while
Yahya Jammeh is in power??).
Hence my (tongue in cheek) solution: lets identify the
top-notch economists, planners, etc: isolate them from all societal
groups and devolve policy-making authority to them!!.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 96 16:22:58 CST
From: <JDG.L.LANGE.LWCLK@CO.HENNEPIN.MN.US>
To: Gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: RESPONSE TO RODDIE'S COMMENT
Message-ID: <9602072222.AA16156@mx5.u.washington.edu>
RODDIE:
I AGREE WITH YOUR GOAL BUT I'M NOT SURE THAT YOU HAVE PROPOSED A CREDIBLE WAY
TO ACHIEVE. MIND YOU, WHAT YOU PROPOSE IS A WAY TO WAY TO A GOAL. THIS IS TO
SAY, THE TOP-NOUGH ECONOMISTS ARE SUPPOSED TO REGULATE THE ECONOMY AND THEN
THE REGULATORY SCHEME OF THESE TOP-NOUGH ECONOMIST SHOULD PRODUCE ECONOMIC
PROSPERITY (THE ULTIMATE GOAL). WOULD I BE MISTAKEN IS LIKENING YOUR GROUP OF
TOP-NOUGH ECONOMISTS TO SOMETHING LIKE THE FEDERAL RESERVE BOARD HERE IN THE
U.S.?
HERE LIES THE DEVIL:
1) HOW DOES ONE PROVIDE A STABLE GROUP OF TOP-NOUGH ECONONMISTS IN A
HIGHLY FLAMMABLE POLITICAL ATMOSPHERE. SURELY ONE HAS TO AGREE THAT THE
SUCCESS OF THE FED. RESERVE IN THE U.S. IS HIGHLY DERIVATIVE OF THE STABLE
(EMPHASIS ON "STABLE") POLITICAL SYSTEM HERE. WHAT I'M DRIVING AT IS THAT
SHOULD THE POLITICAL SYSTEM BE UPSET, ESPECIALLY, MILITARILY, I DON'T
THINK
THE INSURGENTS WILL FANCY OUR LITTLE TO-NOUGH GROUP.
AFTER ALL, INSURGENCY WOULD HAVE BEEN LESS LIKELY IF THAT TOP-NOUGH
GROUP OF ECONOMISTS WAS PRODUCING REAL RESULTS!
2) THAT THE EU STANDS SUBSTANTIALLY POLITICALLY SEPARATE WHILE MAKING GREAT
ECONOMIC STRIDES MAKES IT NO MODEL FOR THE AFRICAN CONDITION. EU CONSISTS
OF BIG FISH (SO TO SPEAK). THE MACHINATIONS OF AFRICA HAVE NO GRAVE
CONSEQUENCES IN EUROPE. ON THE OTHER HAND, EUROPE'S MISCHIEFS HAVE GREAT
BEARING ON AFRICA. ALL THIS TO SAY, EUROPEAN COUNTRIES HAVE ACHIEVED A
LEVEL OF SOPHISTICATION WHICH ALLOWS THEM TO BE IMPERVIOUS TO ADVERSITY
FROM AFRICA. AFRICA ON THE OTHER HAND IS BEHOLDEN TO EVERY NUANCE AND
SHIFT IN EUROPEAN POLICY (I.E POLICIES OF EUROPEAN COUNTRIES--NOT TO
SPEAK OF EUROPE AS A MONOLITH).
3) WE ARE BACK TO THE INESCAPBLE CONCLUSION--IN AFRICA POLITICAL STABILITY
(A CHILD OF POLITICAL UNION) IS NECESSARY TO ECONOMIC PROGRESS.
I DO NOT MEAN TO BELABOR THIS ISSUE.
HOWEVER, COMING TO A CLEAR CONSENUS ON THE DIRECTION AFRICA HAS TO TAKE,
SOMEWHAT INSTRUCTS US AS TO WHAT ROLE THE GAMBIA SHOULD PLAY IN THAT FOR ITS
OWN SELFISH PURPOSES (ONCE WE FREE IT FROM OUR BUMBLING *****S--I PRESUME,
RODDIE, NONE OF THESE MILITARY boys IS APPROPRIATE FOR INDUCTION IN YOUR
TOP-NOUGH GROUP OF ECONOMIC EXPERTS . . .HA-HA-HA)!
MORRO.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 96 18:55:26 CST
From: <JDG.L.LANGE.LWCLK@CO.HENNEPIN.MN.US>
To: Gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: RESPONSE TO RODDIE'S COMMENT
Message-ID: <9602080055.AA19746@mx5.u.washington.edu>
RODDIE:
I GUESS I STILL HAVE ISSUE WITH WHAT YOU ENVISION.
1) HOW DOES ONE "COMMANDEER AND ALLOCATE ON PURELY ECONOMIC CRITERIA," A
NATION'S RESOURCE IN A QUEST TO STARVE OUT CLIENILIST POLITICS IN AN
ADMITTEDLY SUICIDAL/GENOCIDAL ENVIRONMENT? (BY "CLIENILIST RELATIONS"
I TAKE IT YOU'RE ALLUDING TO TRIBALISM, ETC. RIGHT?) AS I SAID BEFORE,
THE DEVIL IS OFTEN IN THE DETAILS; I WANT THE DETAILS.
TO "COMMANDEER" PRESUMES THERE IS AUTHORITY CAPABLE OF COMMANDEERING.
IDENTIFY IT . . . THIS ELITE GROUP OF ECONOMISTS WILL HAVE TO HEAVILY
RELY ON THE PROTECTIVE FORCE OF SOME POWERFUL ENTITY THAT AT THIS POINT
IN TIME IS UNBEKNOWNST TO ME. THIS ELITE GROUP OF ECONOMISTS CANNOT
LIVE SHIELDED FROM THE DEGENERATE VIOLENCE OF THE REST OF THE SOCIETY
OVER WHOSE ECONOMIC AFFAIRS IT PRESIDES. (THIS POWERFUL ENTITY I REFER
TO CAN OBVIOUSLY ONLY BE A UNITED AFRICA OR A UNION OF A SUBSTANTIAL
PART THEREOF.)
2) I AGREE "POLITICAL STABILITY IS NOT THE SAME THING AS POLITICAL UNION."
AS I SAID BEFORE, THE FORMER YEILDS THE LATTER.
MORRO.
--------------------------( Forwarded letter follows )-----------------------
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Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 15:32:27 -0800 (PST)
From: "Roddie L. Cole" <rcole@ced.berkeley.edu>
To: JDG.L.LANGE.LWCLK@CO.HENNEPIN.MN.US
Subject: Re: RESPONSE TO RODDIE'S COMMENT
In-Reply-To: <9602072223.AA20182@coyote.ced.berkeley.edu>
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Morroh:
A number of issues:
1. Frankly. I have not thought through the issue of selecting those
economists. I was more concerned with putting out the concept as opposed
to working out the logistics.
The key issue here is the fact that
African nation-states have territorial integrity and political
souvereignty.
This means that even when leaders are pursuing suicidal policies or
indeed, genocidal operations there is zero response. More importantly,
this "souvereignty" allows them to rape and plunder their own
countries resources. My point then is that if a significant level of a
nations resources are commandeered and allocated on purely economic criteria
by this authority, then less is available for distribution on the
basis of clientilist relations.
I was not sugesting that the EU was an appropriate model for Africa.
However, in response to your "all or nothing ultimatum", it offers one
example of an integrated economy without complete political union.
Moreover, political stability is not the same as thing as political
union. It is quite conceivable indeed quite likely that a united Africa
wil be subject to political tensions of various kinds: factions that want
to break away, the issue of whether Arab north Africa (or even Ethiopia) is
"African and so forth.
I'm suggesting making politics less important. PERIOD!.
Africans should focus on economy building: In East Africa, Asians control
the economy; in West Africa, the Lebanese have a high economic profile:
all of this while Africans are fighting for political power.
The era of "seeking the political kingdom" is over and we should now
refocus on seeking an "economic kingdom" controlled by indigenous Africans.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 96 19:10:14 CST
From: <JDG.L.LANGE.LWCLK@CO.HENNEPIN.MN.US>
To: Gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: POSTSCRIPT
Message-ID: <9602080110.AA23105@mx5.u.washington.edu>
RODDIE:
BY THE WAY, THE REALITY OF LEBANON AND YOUR OFFER OF THE LEBANESE AS A
MODEL ARE PATENTLY AT WAR. DESPITE THE INDUSTRIOUSNESS OF THE LEBANESE,
AND THE VAST WEALTH THEIR COUNTRY IS ENDOWED WITH, LEBANON IS IN SHAMBLES.
THE POLITICS OF LEBANON, I SUSPECT, IS THE REASON WHY LEBANESE ARE IN
GAMBIA (& THE REST OF AFRICA)--I DOUBT THAT THEIR great love FOR AFRICA
(HA-HA-HA) ADEQUATELY EXPLAINS THEIR PRESENCE IN GAMBIA.
YOU SEE, LEBANON IS A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF HOW POLITICAL INSTABILITY REEKS HAVOC
ON AN ECONOMY...
MORRO.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 96 20:19:52 CST
From: Katim S. Touray <touray@hope.soils.wisc.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Teething problems, and stuff ...
Message-ID: <9602080219.AA01524@hope.soils.wisc.edu>
Hi folks,
i hope everybody's having a great week so far. i'm writing to touch on a
couple of issues raised in traffic from the past few days.
1. i'm sorry for all the teething problems (wrong addresses, error-
messages, exceeding maximum number of messages allowed, and so
forth). thank you very much for your patience and understanding.
when you have something in cyberspace being managed by a
'fana-fana', and probably a Jola or Aku, you're asking for
trouble (laugh). anyway, we're trying a couple of things to
help alleviate the problems:
a). the max. number of messages has been upped to 500
b). the list is defaulting to auto-delete subscribers,
meaning that when and if your account goes down for
some reason, you'll be automatically deleted. this
will hopefully reduce the number of errors our
error-managers (Abdourahman and Lamin (in Japan)
get. when you're unsubscribed, you'd have to get in
touch with the subscription managers to get on board
again. sounds cumbersome, but i thought we should
try it out of compassion for our error-managers. if
anyone is violently opposed to the idea, please let me
know.
c). the wrong addresses have been fixed.
2. i noticed there was some flurry of traffic confirming the
receipt of Morro's posting. while this is o.k., you'll
realize ttouch with the subscription managers to be added to
the list again. it sounds cumbersome, but i thought
we should try this option out of compassion for our
error managers. if anyone's violently opposed to the
idea, please let me know.
c). the wrong addresses have been fixed.
2. i noticed there was a flurry of traffic confirming receipt of a
posting from Morro. while this is o.k., i would like to point out
that we could have saved ourselves some trouble by noticing that
the headers of mail from the list will always indicate the
senders' address, as well as an identification of our mailing list.
the example below shows the header for mail from Momodou Kolley in
Seattle to the list. line 1 indicates it's from Gambia-l.
..
>From GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu Tue Feb 6 07:04:40 1996
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Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 07:54:15 -0500
Reply-To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
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Precedence: bulk
From: MANSALA@aol.com
To: GAMBIA-L\: The Gambia and Related Issuess Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: INTRODUCTIONS
X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.2 -- ListProcessor by CREN
Status: R
please note also that it indicates the it's from 'Mansala@aol.com',
Momodou's e-mail address.
3. i'm jumping to the third point because my editor is gone absolutely
bunkers! i hope you get the preceeding parts of this mail. anyway,
like i was saying, just one person could have sent the confirmation to
Morro, and copied that to the group. Morro perhaps did not get a
copy of the info file that i sent out a couple of days ago, so he
might not know how to have the list send him copies of his mail
he sends. to recap: to get a copy of mail you send, send an e-mail to:
listproc@u.washington.edu
with the command:
set gambia-l mail ack
in the body of the mail. if you want to get the status of your
subscription, send mail to the same address with the command:
set gambia-l
please note that the command: review gambia-l will send you a
reply showing the subscribers to our list.
4. i've also added Latjorr Ndow as one of our subscription managers. as
i mentioned in a previous posting, i'm still working on the intro,
welcome, and info files we need to sort out before we make a big
splash. i'm shooting for this coming Monday. that is, all the files
will be posted by this coming Sunday.
5. Thanks for the debate that's raging now!. i guess i'll sit in the
sidelines for now given what they say that when elephants fight, it's
the grass that suffers!.
that's all, and best wishes for the weekend.
Katim
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 96 10:10:31 CST
From: <JDG.L.LANGE.LWCLK@CO.HENNEPIN.MN.US>
To: Gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: POSTSCRIPT
Message-ID: <9602081610.AA05673@mx5.u.washington.edu>
Roddie:
1)
I think we do agree that some sort of economic linkage in
Africa is necessary. I think that economic linkage is not
ineffective unless accompanied by political union. You
disagree I gather.
2)
Africans have not been overly dedicated to a political
kingdom over an economic one. If anything, we have often
rejected the political kingdom for the economic one and
failed at the latter miserably. (E.g. Regional economic
groupings like ECOWAS; the birth of the OAU itself was a
rejection of the "political and economic kingdom" proposed
by Nkrumah for an"economic kingdom" alone favored by
the rest of African leaders intoxicated on their newly
acquired Chief-Excutive positions --the so-called Monrovia
and Casablanca Groups). That rejection was a huge
mistake.
Political union works where genuinely tried. The union of
Tanzania is an enduring example. There, political union
accompanied economic union and so Tanzania still lives.
Contrast that with Senegambia, where political decisions
were left to separate entities. When disagreements
occurred, there was no center to hold the union
together.
The African State itself is evidence of the enormous power
and potential of a political kingdom. Centralized political
decision-making can (and in Africa does) keep competing
and even antagonistic groups together. If tribes have
sovereign leaders, African States will disintegrate. But the
African State survives, because there IS a political center.
Few wish to see borders in Africa redrawn. Our protection
against that has so far largely been the strength of the political
center.
3)
If political union does not work, what have you got to use?
We cannot be worse off then than we are now.
Morro.
--------------------------( Forwarded letter follows )-----------------------
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Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 00:40:19 -0800 (PST)
From: "Roddie L. Cole" <rcole@ced.berkeley.edu>
To: JDG.L.LANGE.LWCLK@CO.HENNEPIN.MN.US
Subject: Re: POSTSCRIPT
In-Reply-To: <9602080110.AA23105@mx5.u.washington.edu>
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My point is that while Africans have "sought political kingdoms" they
have left the economies to Asians, Lebanese, and others to run.
Irrespective of what is happening in Lebanon, we cannot deny that these
guys have economic muscle in West Africa especially in Sierra Leone and
Liberia and to a more limited extent in The Gambia.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 12:07:19 -0500 (EST)
From: Abdourahman Touray <at137@columbia.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: problems
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.960208120159.9845B-100000@bonjour.cc.columbia.edu>
HI fellows,
I have not had access to my mail for the past three days. This is
because the list was sending me a message every 7 minutes on average.
Since this can quickly overwhelm any system, my address was made
inaccessible to all incoming mail. Needless to say, the folks at Columbia
are not amused by this. Tony and Katim, I am including a message I
received from my postmaster about this problem. I think you should try
and configure the list so that it does not send messages recursively.
*******************************************************************************
A. TOURAY.
(718)904-0215.
MY URL ON THE WWW= http://www.cc.columbia.edu/~at137
A FINITE IN A LAND OF INFINITY.
SEEKING BUT THE REACHABLE.
I WANDER AND I WONDER.
ALL RESPITE IS FINAL.
*******************************************************************************
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 96 16:50:44 EST
From: Joe Brennan <brennan@watsun.cc.columbia.edu>
To: Abdourahman Touray <at137@columbia.edu>
Subject: Re: mail
There was one more thing, after I wrote. They sent back to you all the
messages they'd tried to send while we had mail to you turned off!
Sending mail to tell you they couldn't send you mail. I removed that.
The list really is not set up right. I hope this doesn't happen again.
Joseph Brennan Postmaster Academic Information Systems
Columbia University in the City of New York
postmaster@columbia.edu
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 02:50:59
From: binta@iuj.ac.jp
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: POSTSCRIPT
Message-ID: <199602081746.CAA13452@mlsv.iuj.ac.jp>
Hi fellows,
I might have lost a couple of correspondences due to some disk space
inadequacy I encountered yesterday. However, my problem is now solved
and I am back.
I wish to say a few things about African integration, and thus
contribute to the ongoing discussion among Morro, Roddie and perhaps
a few others. I am sorry if I say things out of line with the dictates
of the discussion which may be a result of my late entrance into this
noble chat. Nonetheless, I am not a student of theoritical politics
and may be missing the point. Forgive me for that.
I guess it was Nkrumah who once said, `seek the political kingdom and
everything shall follow'. Rather than stop at that, he went further to
at least practicalise it thru' his dream of a unified Africa (OAU).
By 1963 what Nkrumah and his cohort of `united Africa' thinkers failed
to realise was that many new African rulers, not leaders, were still
obsessed with their new found power, and had little desire to hand that
over to a central authority as OAU would have required it. Unsure of
what to do, these leaders remained on board to avoid being outcasts.
The basic problem then was that OAU was not born out of dire need but
what I like to call fashion. OAU was established because it was merely
wanted.
But has the situation changed today? Are we following another foray of
regional integration? Is our desire for one really rekindled by need,
and are we ready for it? Do we agree with political thinkers like Ali
Mazrui who say that in Africa we have nations in states and nations
across states? Should African integration be a top-bottom phenomenon
wherein the idea is nutured, fine tuned, and outlined before being
passed down to the people who really matter, or should the urge first
emanate from the down-stream players and allowed to filter upward?
To my mind, answers to these questions--and I mean realistic and cogent
answers--must first be sought before we embark on another integration
trial. Let us face it. If we desire a truly unified Africa we will
definitely need to reconfigurate the OAU and avoid all the hyprocrisy
that befell this ill-fated institution from its very inception.
When we fail to allow our tiny groupings like Senegambia to thrive for
reasons of false independence, I find it difficult to comprehend and
visualise how a unified Africa will thriump where more homogeneous
and smaller groupings failed woefully. Perhaps economic integration
must preceed political unification, but does this sequencing really
matter when the very idea of unity remains elusive and still an enclave
of a few people who themselves pay mere lip-service to it. From the
valley of our hearts, let us answer this trivial question. Why did the
previous senegambia confideration fail? I am sure sincere answers will
point more to emotions than any logical answers amenable to some
empirical analysis.
Its appraoching 3 am in Japan and I say good morning to you all.
Lamin.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 03:00:22
From: binta@iuj.ac.jp
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: problems
Message-ID: <199602081756.CAA13475@mlsv.iuj.ac.jp>
Hi
Just like Abdou has said, I encountered the same problem and I couldn't
access my mail bag throughout yesterday. I think we are encountering
some problems with the listserver. However, given that Gambia-L is
still very young, such problems are inevitable and no one is to blame.
Will it be difficult to fix the problem?
Bye!
Lamin
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 13:15:55 -0800 (PST)
From: "Roddie L. Cole" <rcole@ced.berkeley.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Cc: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: POSTSCRIPT
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.90.960208131143.15160B-100000@chabot.ced.berkeley.edu>
I agree with much of what you say Lamin. Toying around with
political unification is bound to be a long and somewaht contentious
process. On the other hand, its just plain silly to have all these tiny
economies (whose budgete are less than that of Univ of California)
trying to run with the big boys. This is why I emphasize
economic coordination and shy away from the monster that is political
integration.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 96 19:02:07 CST
From: <JDG.L.LANGE.LWCLK@CO.HENNEPIN.MN.US>
To: Gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: POSTSCRIPT
Message-ID: <9602090102.AA04270@mx5.u.washington.edu>
RODDIE:
I AM NOT PANICKING YET. . . WERE ACTUALLY CLOSER
THAN MAY APPEAR AT FIRST GLANCE. I DO AGREE WITH
(AND INDEED APPLAUD) ALL YOUR PROTESTATIONS
ABOUT THE AFRICAN STATE AND THE AFRICAN
CONDITION. WE SEEM TO PART WAYS ONLY ON THE
ISSUE OF HOW TO FIX THEM. TO DEMONSTRATE HOW
CLOSE WE REALLY ARE, MY COMMENTS ARE
JUXTAPOSED WITH YOUR ORIGINAL TEXT.
If you feel ECOWAS and other regional entities represent serious
attempts at economic linkage in the continent then I must conclude that our
analysis of the situation differs significantly. ECOWAS has been unable
to implement even basic requisites such as free movement of labor
(people), capital, and so forth across borders without serious harassment
by immigration and customs officials (have you been to Nigeria on a
Gambian or other ECOWAS passport? We have witnessed the collapse of the
East Africa Economic Community and even SADCC has its problems. If
anything, these speak to the fact that African leaders have put in zero
effort at making these institutions function effectively BECAUSE they could
detract from the decision-making authority of the nation-state (and of
the elites entrenched therein).
I AGREE. BUT ECOWAS' "UNSERIOUSNESS" DERIVES FROM THE
NON-ENFORCEMENT OF ITS DECISIONS, NOT FROM ANY
(INHERENTLY) BAD POLICIES OR DECISIONS. ECOWAS HAS IN
FACT ADOPTED SOME PRETTY GOOD IDEAS (LIKE THE
PASSPORT THING).
ENFORCEMENT BECOMES NEAR IMPOSSIBLE BECAUSE THERE IS
NO CREDIBLE ENFORCEMENT BODY . SOVEREIGNS (STATE
SIGNATORIES TO THE DECISIONS) CAN WALK AWAY FROM
BINDING AGREEMENTS ANYHOW, ANYTIME THEY WANT TO.
(THUS NIGERIA CAN REFUSE WITH IMPUNITY, TO HONOR
ECOWAS VISA COMMITMENTS.)
ON THE OTHER HAND, A CENTRALIZED POLITICAL SYSTEM
PROVIDES BOTH A CREDIBLE ENFORCEMENT MECHANISM
FOR ECONOMIC DECISIONS AND MAKES MANY OF OUR
CURRENT ISSUES MOOT. E.G. A VISA FOR INTRA-AFRICA
TRAVEL BECOMES UNNECESSARY.
"Our second disagreement centers on your view of the African state as good
testimony to the strengths of centralized political power. By any
stretch of the imagination the African state has not and does not
work. Put aside the numerous conflicts (Sudan, Somalia, Ethiopia,
Mozambique, Angola, the list goes on), the violent regime changes
(in all of English West Africa and more besides) for the time being. Lets
put government institutions to the test. In how many countries can you
apply for a passport and have the bureaucracy deliver it in good time
without personal interface with and possibly bribery of the powers that
are? A functioning state is predicated on institutionalized not
personalized authority and I challenge you --as you seem to think the
African state a success-- to point out such examples.
The failures of the state in Africa is precisely why I think the
authority of the nation-state should be severely curtailed: not in order
to create another layer of political institutions but to place more
emphasis on economic coordination!"
HERE, OUR PERCEIVED DIFFERENCES ARE PURELY A
FUNCTION OF YOUR MISUNDERSTANDING OF MY
COMMENTS RELATIVE TO THE SO-CALLED "SUCCESS"
OF THE AFRICAN STATE. I AGREE THAT THE AFRICAN
STATE IS IN A HORRIBLE CONDITION.
I WILL EVEN GO SO FAR AS TO SAY THAT THE MAKE-UP
OF THE AFRICAN STATE IS INHERENTLY CONDUCIVE OF
WAR, ECONOMIC COLLAPSE, ETC. (ONE MAY ATTRIBUTE
THIS LARGELY TO THE FACT THAT THE AFRICAN STATE
INCLUDES PEOPLES FORMERLY RIVALS AND EXCLUDES
THOSE ONCE FRIENDS AND FAMILY.)
MY AREA OF INTEREST LIES HERE: GIVEN THAT THE AFRICAN STATE
WAS SO BADLY DEVISED, WHY DOES IT STILL EXIST? MY POINT AND
ONLY POINT WAS THAT THE AFRICAN STATE,
NOTWITHSTANDING THE CONFLICTS AND DECAYS
WITHIN, HAS MANAGED TO SURVIVE AS A UNIT (HAS BEEN
"SUCCESSFUL", SO TO SPEAK, IN STAYING AS A UNIT)
BECAUSE IT CAN BOAST A CENTRALIZED POLITICAL
SYSTEM. WITHOUT THE CENTRALIZED POLITICAL SYSTEM,
THE CENTRIFUGAL PRESSURES ON THE AFRICAN STATE ARE SO
GREAT AS TO MANDATE DISINTEGRATION A LONG TIME AGO.
I INTENDED TO MAKE NO THAN THAT NARROW POINT.
INDEED FOR ME TO BLANKETLY ENDORSE THE AFRICAN
STATE AS A "SUCCESS" WOULD UNDERCUT MY WHOLE
ARGUMENT, TO WIT--THAT THE AFRICAN STATE IN EVERY
OTHER RESPECT IS A FAILURE AND THUS A UNITED
STATES OF AFRICA MUST REPLACE IT.
YOU, ON THE OTHER HAND, CONTEND THAT AN ECONOMIC
LINKAGE/UNION/INTERFACE WILL SUFFICE. THIS
IS OUR ONLY POINT OF DIVERGENCE. I ESPOUSE
POLITICAL AND ECONOMIC UNION; YOU ESPOUSE
ONLY ECONOMIC UNION. I STILL MAINTAIN THAT ANY
ECONOMIC GROUPING (ECOWAS OR YOU ELITE GROUP OF
"TOP-NOUGH" ECONOMIC EXPERTS) IS BOUND TO RUN
INTO ISSUES OF ENFORCEMENT. FLATLY SPOKEN, IN THE FACE OF
RESISTANCE, SUCH GROUPS ARE SIMPLY POWERLESS TO ENFORCE
THE DECISIONS THEY UNDERTAKE. AN AFRICAN ECONOMIC
UNION UNACCOMPANIED BY POLITICAL UNION
STAGNATES (BECOMES UNSERIOUS) AND DIES.
I DO CONCUR IN YOUR OBSERVATION THAT THE
AUTHORITY OF THE AFRICAN STATE SHOULD BE
LIMITED--VERY LIMITED. BUT ECONOMIC "LINKAGE"
DOES NOT ACHIEVE THAT PURPOSE, A UNITED
(PERHAPS FEDERAL?) AFRICA DOES.
YOU ALSO NEVER ANSWERED MY QUESTION, IF
POLITICAL AND ECONOMIC UNION SHOULD BE TRIED,
WHAT DO WE HAVE TO LOSE SHOULD IT FAILS?
(GAMBIA WALKED AWAY FROM SENEGAMBIA.)
IF WAR SHOULD BE THE CONSEQUENCE OF
A BREAK UP, WE HAVE PLENTY OF THAT NOW. IF
STARVATION SHOULD BE THE CONSEQUENCE, WE
HAVE PLENTY OF THAT TOO, ETC. ETC.)
I GUESS AS SURVIVORS OF SLAVERY AND COLONIALISM,
I AM MORE THAN A LITTLE SURPRISED THAT WE FIND
THE CHALLENGE OF LIVING IN THE SAME COUNTRY
WITH OUR AFRICAN BRETHREN AN IMPOSSIBILITY.
I HOPE THAT CLEARS IT UP A LITTLE BIT. I EXPECT THAT
OUR DISCUSSION WILL NOW FOCUS ON HOW, IN THEORY
AND PRACTICE, ECONOMIC UNION VERSUS POLITICAL AND
ECONOMIC UNION IS MORE READILY ACHIEVABLE AND
WORKABLE. (I DO WANT EVERYONE'S IMPUT ON THIS.)
MORRO.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 08 Feb 1996 20:07:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: Amadou Scattred Janneh <AJANNEH@pstcc.cc.tn.us>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: POSTSCRIPT
Message-ID: <01I0ZDW9Q30Y8WWESJ@pstcc.cc.tn.us>
Dear comrades! :)
I have been "snowed in" for a while, but I am enjoying the exchanges
on "unification," "integration," etc. I wish I had enough time to
contribute to the debate. I wrote some articles on economic and
political integration; and both my master's thesis and doctoral
dissertation ("Dilemmas of Senegambian Integration") dealt with
the issue.
Works by the following should help us (to some extent) in the debate:
Jeggan Senghor; Claude Welch; Paul Joseph Coppa; Joseph Nye; Padmore;
and, of course, Nkrumah; among others. (Not to forget articles by
our own Ousman Manjang (in "West Africa") dealing with SENEGAMBIA.
Peace!
PS: Gambian women organizing in Atlanta. Some events beginning soon!
Latjorr: Tell us more as information becomes available. And why not
recruit some of the women in the new organization who have access to
the internet. I should be attending one of their programs this month
as a guest!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 21:00:00 -0500
From: Gabriel Ndow <gndow@auc.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: POSTSCRIPT
Message-ID: <199602090200.VAA26676@auc.edu>
Greetings:
I would like to contribute to the current discussion on how to unify Africa. It is my fervent belief that it is impractical to consider economic integration,
regionally or otherwise without first addressing the political one. 'Top notch'
economists can devise as many plans as they want but it takes political will to
implement these plans. One could easily envision a scenario where the plan
requires the devaluation of state A's currency while simultaneously shifting
financial resources to a neighboring state B in order to accelerate the rapid
automation of that state's fishing industry which would ultimately boost the
state A's economy. This would happen in our hypothetical scenario if the state Ahappens to be the intermediary between the state B and a third state C that is land locked and needs fish and all its derivatives for consumption.
Now the big question is will the government state A agree to the devaluation andrisk being booted out of office in the next elections (or more realistically by
its armed forces)?
The question of unifying Africa has to be taken seriously! If for no other
reason than the fact that the condition of Africa has not improved much since
we all had a flag and a national anthem! In many cases it has become worse. It
takes an elightened leadership and intelligentia to sensitize the people on the
importance of the projects and to implement them. The intelligentia for the
most part have joined forces with the unlightened leaderships found all over the
continent to 'play it safe' and feast on the labor of the people.
The Great African Multi-Genius, Mam Cheikh Anta Diop (whose anniversary was
yesterday,Feb. 7) has among his many monumental publications a little known bookentitled, "The Political and Economic Basis for a Federated Black Africa", an actual blueprint/ MasterPlan to achieve not only regional integration but continental integration south of the Sahara. I encourage all of you to get a copy and
let us evaluate its merits. The amazing thing is that it was published in 1954!
Obviously the Casablanca and Monrovia BOYS were too busy having a chest match totake note of his ideas and warnings nearly all of which have come to pass -
especially the 'South Americanization of Africa', i.e. military in government
syndrome.
His insistence that the loss of historical consciousness is the first problem wemust tackle if we want to see the great africa that we dream of come about. For some reason we keep stumbling when we are confronted with the ethnic question,
and feel unsure which way to go. Yes 'tribalism' is a problem in africa today,
(just like it is in Europe whether you want to call it ethnic cleansing/ warfarein the former Yugoslavia or in Germany), but to check it requires an indebt
understanding of history which is generally lacking, even among the educated
elite. How many of us know that we unlike Europe have had a very long tradition of centralized governments governing vast regions that can easily swallow up theentire sub-continent known as Europe? That these lasted in one form or another
over several centuries, yes even millenas? Do we know in detail how the
political structure of ancient Ghana, Mali or Zimbabwe was configured? Please do
not give me epics - Marie Jatta et al... Of the ancient Egyptians and their
stupendous engineering feats? All in Africa?
For too long we have looked to the 'West' or the 'North' for direction - EU not
withstanding! It is time we look at back and take note that we do have several
precedents on the question of regional integration and do not need Europe with
NO PRECEDENCE of America with only 2 centuries for guidance!
I close by begging your indulgence for this lengthy discourse, but when a bull
finds other bulls butting heads and wants to particpate, he has to be bullish
about it!
Have a peaceful weekend y'all.
LatJor
P.S. Tony, what are my duties as subscription manager? Please provide details.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 19:13:21 -0800 (PST)
From: "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu>
To: cgambia-l@u.washington.edu
Cc: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: POSTSCRIPT
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.91l.960208174741.9009B-100000@saul7.u.washington.edu>
I want to commend Morro and Roddie for their eloquence in this hotly
debated issue of African political and economic unity. Both of you have
strong merits to your arguements and your positions are well stated.
Infact, I find myself in
concurrence with both of you on certain points. Not attempting to divert
the topic and since Amadou mentioned his research on The Senegambian
confederation for his masters thesis and doctoral dissertation, I thought
that it would be fun and informative to narrow the discussion on the
Senegambian confederation and its failure. Here are my thoughts on it and
please feel free to correct me if I misrepresent some facts since I have
not lived in The Gambia for nearly two decades.
I believe that Jawara was never interested in confederating The
Gambia with Senegal, as that could have been achieved ever since the 60's
when Senghore adamantly advocated that position. I believe that still
holds true for the majority of Gambian citizens. If a referendum were held
today as to whether we should form a confederation with Senegal, I can
bet my bottom dollar that it would be overwhelmly rejected by The Gambian
electorate due to a spirit of nationalism and a fear of being swallowed
and dominated by Senegal. But will it have been economically favorable
for both countries to have some sort of economic integration and
cooperation. The answer to that my question is a resounding YES and the
same formula could be directly applied to the entire continent. As both
Morro and Roddie have alluded to we have been encapsulated in this false
sense of nationalism compounded to the fact that our African leaders
never had any interest of relinquishing their powers, authority and all
the perks that come with it to a central governing authority. Thus, as I
can see, it has been one of our major obstacles to a political and
economic unification of Africa. Getting back to Senegambia, I seriously
believe
that part of the primary reasons it failed was because it was formed under
the wrong and adverse circumstances. Had the 1981 abortive coup d'etat not
taken place, Jawara would never had entered into such an agreement. Thus
he agreed to the confederation as a mechanism for getting back to power
but his heart was never into it. There these agreements in the
confederation: Economic intergration, monetary union and intergration of
the armed forces. Those are the only ones that I can remember, if I miss
others, please enlighten the group on them so that we can have the full
facts.
Was the presidency of the confederation supposed to be the president of
Senegal or on rotational basis ? I cannot remember. Anyway, to make a
long story short, my observation from distance revealed that Senegal
invested more committments and resources into the confederation while
Jawara dragged his feet, adopted delaying tactics to implement the full
agreement especially with issue of monetary union. Consequently out of
frustration, Abdou Diouf withdrew all Senegalese armed forces stationed
in The Gambia, and the confederation disintergrated. Now we can all
see that Senegal does not have the slightest interest in restoring Jawara
back
to power this time around, in light of the fact, the same arguement could
have been used alledging any unstability in The Gambia could be easily
propagated into Senegal. Actually, I saw a story in The Senegambia Sun
published in the latter part of last year that Abdou Diouf sent his
ambassador to Yaya Jammeh assuring that Senegal would not intervene and
restore Jawara back to his Presidency.
With all those
factors, I would conclude that it will be quite a challenge to achieve
continental unity given the fact that we cannot even do that on a
smaller regional scale like Senegambia. So, then the magic question is
whether economic intergration trancends its political counterpart ? I
will leave that question to the group for more points and counter points.
Latjorr, Katim will explain to you your role and will furnish you
with the needed documentation.
Thanks
Tony
========================================================================
Anthony W Loum tloum@u.washington.edu
Supervisor, Business Administration Library 206-543-4360 voice
100 Balmer Hall 206-685-9392 fax
University of Washington
Box 353200
Seattle, Wa.98195-3200
=========================================================================
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 19:16:45 -0800 (PST)
From: "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu>
To: Gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: POSTSCRIPT (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.91l.960208191401.125A-100000@saul6.u.washington.edu>
I am reforwarding this message again. I did not realize that there was a
c in front of the g in gambia-l. So, if you should receive it twice, my
apologies.
Thanks
Tony
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 19:13:21 -0800 (PST)
From: A. Loum <tloum@u.washington.edu>
To: cgambia-l@u.washington.edu
Cc: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: POSTSCRIPT
I want to commend Morro and Roddie for their eloquence in this hotly
debated issue of African political and economic unity. Both of you have
strong merits to your arguements and your positions are well stated.
Infact, I find myself in
concurrence with both of you on certain points. Not attempting to divert
the topic and since Amadou mentioned his research on The Senegambian
confederation for his masters thesis and doctoral dissertation, I thought
that it would be fun and informative to narrow the discussion on the
Senegambian confederation and its failure. Here are my thoughts on it and
please feel free to correct me if I misrepresent some facts since I have
not lived in The Gambia for nearly two decades.
I believe that Jawara was never interested in confederating The
Gambia with Senegal, as that could have been achieved ever since the 60's
when Senghore adamantly advocated that position. I believe that still
holds true for the majority of Gambian citizens. If a referendum were held
today as to whether we should form a confederation with Senegal, I can
bet my bottom dollar that it would be overwhelmly rejected by The Gambian
electorate due to a spirit of nationalism and a fear of being swallowed
and dominated by Senegal. But will it have been economically favorable
for both countries to have some sort of economic integration and
cooperation. The answer to that my question is a resounding YES and the
same formula could be directly applied to the entire continent. As both
Morro and Roddie have alluded to we have been encapsulated in this false
sense of nationalism compounded to the fact that our African leaders
never had any interest of relinquishing their powers, authority and all
the perks that come with it to a central governing authority. Thus, as I
can see, it has been one of our major obstacles to a political and
economic unification of Africa. Getting back to Senegambia, I seriously
believe
that part of the primary reasons it failed was because it was formed under
the wrong and adverse circumstances. Had the 1981 abortive coup d'etat not
taken place, Jawara would never had entered into such an agreement. Thus
he agreed to the confederation as a mechanism for getting back to power
but his heart was never into it. There these agreements in the
confederation: Economic intergration, monetary union and intergration of
the armed forces. Those are the only ones that I can remember, if I miss
others, please enlighten the group on them so that we can have the full
facts.
Was the presidency of the confederation supposed to be the president of
Senegal or on rotational basis ? I cannot remember. Anyway, to make a
long story short, my observation from distance revealed that Senegal
invested more committments and resources into the confederation while
Jawara dragged his feet, adopted delaying tactics to implement the full
agreement especially with issue of monetary union. Consequently out of
frustration, Abdou Diouf withdrew all Senegalese armed forces stationed
in The Gambia, and the confederation disintergrated. Now we can all
see that Senegal does not have the slightest interest in restoring Jawara
back
to power this time around, in light of the fact, the same arguement could
have been used alledging any unstability in The Gambia could be easily
propagated into Senegal. Actually, I saw a story in The Senegambia Sun
published in the latter part of last year that Abdou Diouf sent his
ambassador to Yaya Jammeh assuring that Senegal would not intervene and
restore Jawara back to his Presidency.
With all those
factors, I would conclude that it will be quite a challenge to achieve
continental unity given the fact that we cannot even do that on a
smaller regional scale like Senegambia. So, then the magic question is
whether economic intergration trancends its political counterpart ? I
will leave that question to the group for more points and counter points.
Latjorr, Katim will explain to you your role and will furnish you
with the needed documentation.
Thanks
Tony
========================================================================
Anthony W Loum tloum@u.washington.edu
Supervisor, Business Administration Library 206-543-4360 voice
100 Balmer Hall 206-685-9392 fax
University of Washington
Box 353200
Seattle, Wa.98195-3200
=========================================================================
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 96 10:21:47 CST
From: <JDG.L.LANGE.LWCLK@CO.HENNEPIN.MN.US>
To: Gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: POSTSCRIPT
Message-ID: <9602091650.AA19286@mx5.u.washington.edu>
GAMBIA-L:
I CONCUR IN THE GIST OF THE GENTLEMAN'S COMMENTS AND I COMMEND HIM FOR HIS
INSIGHTS.
MORRO.
--------------------------( Forwarded letter 1 follows )---------------------
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From: Gabriel Ndow <gndow@auc.edu>
To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu> Subject: Re: POSTSCRIPT
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Greetings:
I would like to contribute to the current discussion on how to unify Africa.
It is my fervent belief that it is impractical to consiregionally or otherwise
without first addressing the political one. 'Top notch' economists can devise
as many plans as they want but it takes political will to implement these
plans. One could easily envision a scenario where the plan requires the
devaluation of state A's currency while simultaneously shifting financial
resources to a neighboring state B in order to accelerate the rapid automation
of that state's fishing industry which would ultimately boost the state A's
economy. This would happen in our hypothetical scenario if the state Ahappens
to be the intermediary between the state B aNow the big question is will the
government state A agree to the devaluation andrisk being booted out of office
in the next electionits armed forces)?
The question of unifying Africa has to be taken seriously! If for no other
reason than the fact that the condition of Africa has not improved much since
we all had a flag and a national anthem! In many cases it has become worse. It
takes an elightened leadership and intelligentia to sensitize the people on
the importance of the projects and to implement them. The intelligentia for
the most part have joined forces with the unlightened leaderships found all
over the continent to 'play it safe' and feast on the labor of the people.
The Great African Multi-Genius, Mam Cheikh Anta Diop (whose anniversary was
yesterday,Feb. 7) has among his many monumental publications a little known
bookentitled, "The Political and Economic Basis for a Felet us evaluate its
merits. The amazing thing is that it was published in 1954! Obviously the
Casablanca and Monrovia BOYS were too busy having a chest match totake note of
his ideas and warnings nearly all of whespecially the 'South Americanization
of Africa', i.e. military in government syndrome.
His insistence that the loss of historical consciousness is the first problem
wemust tackle if we want to see the great africa that and feel unsure which
way to go. Yes 'tribalism' is a problem in africa today, (just like it is in
Europe whether you want to call it ethnic cleansing/ warfarein the former
Yugoslavia or in Germany), but to checunderstanding of history which is
generally lacking, even among the educated elite. How many of us know that we
unlike Europe have had a very long tradition of centralized governments
governing vast regions thover several centuries, yes even millenas? Do we know
in detail how the political structure of ancient Ghana, Mali or Zimbabwe was
configured? Please do not give me epics - Marie Jatta et al... Of the ancient
Egyptians and their stupendous engineering feats? All in Africa?
For too long we have looked to the 'West' or the 'North' for direction - EU
not withstanding! It is time we look at back and take note that we do have
several precedents on the question of regional integration and do not need
Europe with NO PRECEDENCE of America with only 2 centuries for guidance!
I close by begging your indulgence for this lengthy discourse, but when a bull
finds other bulls butting heads and wants to particpate, he has to be bullish
about it!
Have a peaceful weekend y'all.
LatJor
P.S. Tony, what are my duties as subscription manager? Please provide details.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 15:42:11 -0800 (PST)
From: "Roddie L. Cole" <rcole@ced.berkeley.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Cc: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: POSTSCRIPT
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.90.960209152610.22745C-100000@chabot.ced.berkeley.edu>
of Senegambian integration is an excellent idea.
Gambia did insist on a rotating presidency while I guess the Senegalese
thought it ridiculous that their sovereignty should actually lie on the
desk of the Gambian president --however temporary such an arrangement.
I've had numerous debates with Jeggan Senghor (one of the authors Amadou
cites (he also happens to be an uncle of mine). He has a notion
that, pschologically, Gambians have an inferiority complex when it comes to
dealing with Senegal and with the Senegalese (reflected in the popular
perception that "dagnu neh lamegn" and that
--political considerations aside-- that feeling seriously undermined
prospects of success.
I have a more materialist interpretation.
During the previous regime, we know how tightly controlled the economy
was by a "few good men" and their political cronies. Didnt
Mbye Njie have the monopoly on cement or rice importation for a long
while? Other examples can be given. Opening up the country and the
economy to competition from Senegal was a serious threat to the
political-business clique in Banjul, and their serious opposition did not
come as a surprise. Less significant, but a factor nonetheless, perhaps
government bureaucrats and politicians also feared comparisons to their
more able Senegalese counterparts.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 14:09:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: Amadou Scattred Janneh <AJANNEH@pstcc.cc.tn.us>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Why the Confederation failed
Message-ID: <01I11T18099Y8WX8FN@pstcc.cc.tn.us>
President Jawara's demand for the rotation of the presidency of "Senegambia"
appeared to be the root of the confederation's demise; but there was more to
the "divorce."
Contrastss in political development between The Gambia and Senegal
contributed to the failure of the Confederation and made the path to full integration
very difficult, if not impossible, to follow...
The contrasts in political development between The Gambia and Senegal
are paralleled in their economic structures... To harmonize the economic
structures of the two states would require a great deal of sacrifice on
the side of Gambian elites, who have been very unwilling to shoulder the
burden. The prices of commodities and the cost of living would have
increased significantly in The Gambia as a result of economic union; and
the Senegalese did not agree to compensate The Gambia to remedy such a
situation. (After all, we still value our "re-exporting," otherwise termed
"smuggling" in Senegal.)
The desire for Senegambian unity is further limited by such factors as
the administrative, cultural, linguistic, and institutional differences.
....Also, the Confederation failed because it lacked legitimacy and
President Jawara was coerced into reaching the confederal with the Senegalese
authorities. ....President Jawara's primary interest during the 1981 crises
and the immediate aftermath of the revolt was to re-establish his regime at
any cost. He was described as a "drowning man, who will clutch at any straw"
to survive. The Confederation was, in essence, the price the Gambian
president had to pay for the Senegalese intervention to restore his regime.
Jawara's lack of commitment and the circumstances and environment of the
"negotiations" on confederation eroded support for Senegambian unity in
The Gambia and further complicated the confederal process...
Another factor which may have contributed to the slow pace of Senegambian
integration during the confederal relationship is ethnicity. The similarity
of ethnic groups across political frontiers is considered to be one of the
most notable features of the Senegambian situation; but ethnicity also
constitutes a problem. The balance of power between the key ethnic groups
in the respective countries would be significantly altered with the full
integration of The Gambia and Senegal... (Would Mandinka elites be willing
to play even a secondary role in a Senegambian state?)
...Thus despite a common desire for African unity, propinquity (kinship &
proximity), common socio-economic factors, the predominance of Islam, the use
of Wollof as a lingua franca, and political considerations, the gap between
the Senegambian dream and reality remained wide.
As mentioned earlier, the growing insecurity of the Jawara government made
Confederation an attractive proposition to the Gambian authorities in 1981.
But once President Jawara felt militarily and politically secure enough, he
demanded a major restructuring of the confederation--a pill too bitter for
President Diouf to swallow.
Got to go! Too hungry to think right now!
Peace!
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 17:37:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: Amadou Scattred Janneh <AJANNEH@pstcc.cc.tn.us>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: SIERRA LEONE/ATTACK (L) [3] By PURNELL MURDOCK/ABIDJAN
Message-ID: <01I121P3OPF68WXAZM@pstcc.cc.tn.us>
DATE=2/10/96
TYPE=CORRESPONDENT REPORT
NUMBER=2-192559
TITLE=SIERRA LEONE/ATTACK (L)
BYLINE=PURNELL MURDOCK
DATELINE=ABIDJAN
CONTENT=
VOICED AT:
INTRO: GUNMEN HAVE ATTACKED THE HOMES OF SIERRA LEONE'S ELECTORAL
COMISSIONER AND THE HEAD OF THE COUNTRY'S OLDEST POLITICAL PARTY.
THE ATTACKS COME TWO DAYS BEFORE THE START OF A SPECIAL
CONFERENCE TO DECIDE WHETHER TO RESPECT A TIMETABLE SET FOR
RETURNING THE COUNTRY TO CIVILIAN RULE. V-O-A CORRESPONDENT
PURNELL MURDOCK REPORTS FROM OUR WEST AFRICA BUREAU.
TEXT: WITNESSES SAY ROCKET-PROPELLED GRENADES AND GUNFIRE HIT
THE HOMES OF ELECTORAL COMMISSIONER JAMES JONAH AND THE HEAD OF
THE "SIERRA LEONE PEOPLE'S PARTY," TEJAN KABBA. NEITHER MAN WAS
HURT IN THE EARLY-MORNING ATTACKS. THERE WERE NO OTHER REPORTS
OF INJURIES.
THE GUNMEN ALSO ATTACKED THE HEADQUARTERS OF THE INTERIM
ELECTORAL COMMISSION EARLY SATURDAY. POLICE HAVE BEGUN AN
INVESTIGATION.
SPEAKING TO REPORTERS IN THE CAPITAL, FREETOWN, MR. JONAH SAID HE
BELIEVES THE PRE-DAWN ATTACK WAS MEANT TO SEND A MESSAGE THAT THE
FEBRUARY 26TH PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION SHOULD NOT BE HELD.
MR. JONAH AND THE HEADS OF THE REGISTERED POLITICAL PARTIES SAY
THEY WANT THE ELECTIONS TO GO AS SCHEDULED. // BEGIN OPT // THEY
SAY SIERRA LEONE RISKS LOSING INTERNATIONAL SUPPPORT IF VOTING
DOES NOT TAKE PLACE AS PLANNED. // END OPT //
HOWEVER PUBLIC OPINION HAS INCREASINGLY TURNED AGAINST HOLDING
THE ELECTIONS UNTIL PEACE HAS BEEN RESTORED IN THE COUNTRY.
// BEGIN OPT // RECENTLY, SOME 55-THOUSAND DISPLACED PEOPLE IN
THE NORTHERN CITY OF BO CALLED FOR A DELAY OF THE POLLING.
ETHNIC AND RELIGIOUS LEADERS HAVE ALSO ASKED FOR A POSTPONEMENT.
POLITICAL OBSERVERS SAY RECENT VIOLENCE IN THE COUNTRY'S
INTERIOR, AS WELL AS SATURDAY'S EARLY-MORNING ATTACKS,
ILLUSTRATES THE DIFFICULTY OF HOLDING ELECTIONS SAFELY. THEY SAY
THE ENORMOUS LOGISTICAL CHALLENGE OF STAGING THE ELECTION ALSO
MAKES IT UNLIKELY THE POLLING WILL TAKE PLACE ON SCHEDULE. // END
OPT //
MILITARY RULER JULIUS MAADA BIO, WHO OUSTED THE FORMER MILITARY
GOVERNMENT IN A BLOODLESS COUP, HAS SUGGESTED THE POLL MAY BE
POSTPONED. A SPECIAL CONFERENCE ON THE ELECTION IS SET TO BEGIN
MONDAY. (SIGNED)
NEB/WPM/DW/SD
10-Feb-96 2:53 PM EST (1953 UTC)
NNNN
Source: Voice of America
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 16:16:17
From: binta@iuj.ac.jp
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Why the Confederation failed
Message-ID: <199602110716.QAA28169@mlsv.iuj.ac.jp>
I felt somehow compelled to comment on Amadou's views. Perhaps what
he wrote is just one of many comments he will make on that our
ill-fated confederation which was in fact a non-starter. However, his
writing has all the inplications that the Gambia was all to blame for
the demise of the confederation.
To say that the Gambian elites were unwilling to shoulder the burden
that would have come with price reallignment of our domestic goods is
true, but could there be any economic justification for raising our
prices. One of the fundamental differences between the two states is
our macroeconomic policy toward economic development. While Senegal
continues to embark on an import substitution economic policy-which
somehow suits it-the Gambia had a relatively open(export oriented)
economic system-again a policy that is in tandem with the realities
of our economy. This open economic system which is characterised by
low tariff and non-tariff barriers enabled us to acquire goods from
abroad at lower prices. On the other hand, Senegal's relatively
closed economy was meant to increase domestic production of goods
that could have otherwise been imported at lower cost. As such, in
order to protect its nascent industries it erected tariff barriers,
the consequent of which is higher domestic prices. Given the above,
and the opposing economic development policies the two countries were
pursuing, it is apparent that a lot of compromise from both sides was
necessary to overcome this hurdle.
Therefore, seemingly casting all the blame on the Gambian side looks
biased and hollow. Whether an open economy is preferred to a closed
one remains debatable, but based on economic reasoning, if the Gambia
were to put up with higher prices, then Senegal should have been more
than willing to compensate for that. In fact, one of the basic
objectives of any economic system is to offer the people as many goods
and services as possible at the lowest possible prices. I think that
the whole of mankind shuns higher prices, and Gambians are no
different.
Issues of a tilt in the political power of certain ethnic groups as
was stated by Amadou were also another sticking point, and I agree with
his analysis completely. Our cultural and ethnic similarities turned
out not to be faultless strengths but also one of the main stumbling
blocks to that confederation. Although it is proper to say that
Jawara accepted the confederation as means to tightening his hold on
power after the 1981 saga (which makes him look Machiavellian), I
want to believe that the Senegalese also used the weakling in Jawara's
power base as a good opportunity to request for a confederation.
While the Senegalese felt that they had everything to gain form the
union, the Gambian brothers dragged their feet fearing that there was
little for them to gain in this association. The failure of
Senegambia goes far beyond politics and economics. It embraces such
delicate areas like psychology which all the more complicates the
analysis.
I want to propose a hypothesis that`..Given the political configuration
of African states, no two nations will henceforth enter into any
meaningful and sustainable union when one of them feels that such a
union will assign unto it the role of an inferior player'. The
feeling of status inequity breeds the Equity theory which states that
a person will fail to give of his best whenever he feels that he is
not being given what much he deserves. Confederations, or for that
matter any form of international union, will continue to fail unless
we understand that we are all bound to gain from them and that they
will not produce any imminent losers. Perhaps only a redefined OAU
or something close to it in size, where concentration of power is
heavily diluted, can survive as a union of states.
Bye!
Lamin Drammeh (Japan).
------------------------------
End of GAMBIA-L Digest 2
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gambia-l: LOG9602C - Digest 2
