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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
 Posted - 06 Sep 2010 : 18:21:50
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This is the statistic Gambians should be worry about.
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Gambia, the is ranked 140 out of 183 economies. Singapore is the top ranked economy in the Ease of Doing Business.
This maybe advantage in region but it is not in Global economy. Gambia being 140 out of 183 is as important even more than our political issues we are discussing here daily.
Check out the other information about business
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 06 Sep 2010 18:24:33 |
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toubab1020
12312 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2010 : 19:56:53
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A lot of reading there turk,where do you get all this stuff from ? (OK don't' really want to know anyway ) very interesting especially the statistics stuff, loads of info there only available to specialists, not the AVERAGE Gambian anyway  ! |
"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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Edited by - toubab1020 on 06 Sep 2010 19:58:26 |
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Prince
507 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2010 : 21:01:43
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quote:
Originally posted by turk
This is the statistic Gambians should be worry about.
quote:
Gambia, the is ranked 140 out of 183 economies. Singapore is the top ranked economy in the Ease of Doing Business.
This maybe advantage in region but it is not in Global economy. Gambia being 140 out of 183 is as important even more than our political issues we are discussing here daily.
Check out the other information about business
Very bothersome stats Turk. Gambia has a lot of catching up to do. I however refuse to accept that the economy and politics are independent, it could even be argued that the two are suppose to complement each other. We need a strong political will to enforce contracts, deal with "big" corruption, and redress the grievances of investors.
Currently, some individuals hold total monopolies of certain sectors of the economy. We require a political will to stop the illegal blockage on entry into such sectors. For example, some two years ago, a friend of mine tried to import cement into the country that could sell at almost 30% below the going prices. He was frustrated by some "important" individuals who claim to be in charge of the cement business. He eventually took his business to Liberia.
Corruption, and i do not mean the dollar-a-day "petty" corruption which some consider as a transaction cost that greases the wheels of commerce in the third world. I am referring to the grand corruption like the one mentioned above requires a strong political will to prevent it from grinding the wheels of commerce to a stand still.
The official income tax is also very steep -something like 35% on D50,000 (less than 2000 USD). We need a political environment for people to voice their opposition to taxes that leaves very little for reinvestment without being labelled unpatriotic. The only people who could make decent returns in such a tax climate are the type of businessmen you do not want.
I don't want to turn this into a political discussion but it's hard to avoid. |
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toubab1020
12312 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2010 : 21:19:24
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Prince,your post tells it "as it is" in The Gambia,the question of course is, how can change be brought about to make it WORTHWHILE for honest businessmen to invest in the country ?
I notice that Guinee Bissau has a better rating than The Gambia,and their system of government is different to say the least ! |
"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2010 : 21:26:14
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Prince
I did not really mean that they are independent. Of course they are related and complimentary as you mentioned. However, my point was that there is an unbalanced focus between in Bantaba. Especially political subjects usually are not about macro/micro economics. How often we have economic and development discussion here? And how often we bash APRC with a rhetoric. I am not sure if you have been to south asia but economy and business drive everything there including politics. Most election issues in western world is economy too. Most discussion in far east about economy. Most developing countries in south asia put economic development as priority.
I strongly believe that, economic development is the one that is going to improve the political process. You are right about your cement example, but that is an economic discussion too. Corruption can not be handled with the political will only. Corruption is happening even most democratic society. It is less there because of two elements. One income is higher, people have less dependency on corruption. Second, government has better resources to implement better system and technology for corruption. Political will itself does not suffice without technical solution to solve corruption. I don't see if for example, when Jammeh is gone, the corruption will change overnight even thought a new leader come to the system. And I pretty much expect, the new leadership will corrupt be corrupted. Power corrupts people. The police salaries are same, GDP is same, if you get 1000 dalasi salary, no one stop an officer for corruption.
I realize that priority is fundamental difference between my approach and you and some of other members here. When I look at the other nations, most successful examples put the economy as priority. Not political development.
Democracy was established after Renaissance, industrial revolution. Democracy did not come before socio-economic development.
Gambia is so far behind in social-economic development and they are still wasting so much energy for deadlock 'democracy' discussion. Democracy may weaken the 'will', did you ever consider this possibility. Imagine coalition government where president and parliament are based on coalition without consensus. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 06 Sep 2010 23:59:35 |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2010 : 00:10:25
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| Why anyone importing have to pay tax? Gambia does not have any industry to protect. Custom taxes are seen as income for Government? There should be absolutely zero tax to import and export. It is easy to get tax revenue as the transaction happens at the border. Easy to tax. Gambia must implement tax system where tax is collected based on 'income' and 'profit' and 'spending'. And mostly time, custom officer determine the tax you pay based on what? Based on how much bribe. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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Prince
507 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2010 : 00:28:15
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quote:
How often we have economic and development discussion here? And how often we bash APRC with a rhetoric
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There is a cultural or say, attitudinal aspect of Gambians you are clearly failing to factor in your argument... Educated Gambians in general, have a very nonchalant attitude towards business and the overall economy. They see business as a domain where illiterates and lesser people to meddle. Until recently, educated Gambians do not consider going into big business. All they are concerned with is maintaining the petty power structures that ensures their breads are buttered without interruption and egos are stroked regularly. Economic policies hardly bother these folks.
I have visited some of the Asian tiger nations, and based on my limited observation; the main difference between their undemocratic governments and their African counterparts is their approach to business. Most Asian countries enforce contracts, and avoid interfering with businesses that are not involved in the political process. That cannot be said of the African government. I don't know what the solution to this is... I'm just saying.
The type of corruption I'm talking about is different from what you are referring to... I am mainly bothered by grand corruption. The type of shiit the former police boss is in court for, not the dollar-a-day corrupt and unkempt street cop. A good example is the type of nonsense in Italy and Greece... those countries are economically well of but still full of grand corruption.
FYI, I am not a great fan of democrazy.... I'm more in favor of the Iranian, Turkish, or former Argentinian model where the military keep these eloquent, worthless, extremely corruption and un-trustable politicians in constant check. But they have to ensure certain inalienable rights, like say, secularism in your native Turkey is strictly maintained. I do not really trust a bunch of uneducated peasants to be making governance decisions for me through a "democratic process".... in that sense, I'm a little elitist.
You are right in that the economy should take a slightly higher prioritization over some of the stuff the politicians keep chanting, but how do we achieve that? The current bunch of bean pushers in Banjul cannot be trusted! |
"When injustice becomes law, rebellion becomes duty." |
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Prince
507 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2010 : 00:45:06
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quote:
Originally posted by turk
Gambia must implement tax system where tax is collected based on 'income' and 'profit' and 'spending'. And mostly time, custom officer determine the tax you pay based on what? Based on how much bribe.
I don't support taxing "profit and income," it is preferable they tax "spending" so people pay for what they consume. Governments should encourage the reinvestment of Profit and Income.
Look at these ridiculously high tax rates...
http://www.gra.gm/?page_id=9 |
"When injustice becomes law, rebellion becomes duty." |
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Prince
507 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2010 : 00:49:36
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quote:
Originally posted by toubab1020
Prince,your post tells it "as it is" in The Gambia,the question of course is, how can change be brought about to make it WORTHWHILE for honest businessmen to invest in the country ?
I notice that Guinee Bissau has a better rating than The Gambia,and their system of government is different to say the least !
Well, I am not a politician... so I always "say it as it is". Guinea Bissau, with all its problems, is more capitalistic than Gambia. The people out their do not expect any handouts from their government, so they tend to fend for themself and have a better economic environment. |
"When injustice becomes law, rebellion becomes duty." |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2010 : 00:58:34
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Prince
Taxing based on combination of 'profit and income' (Income tax/corporate tax) and 'spending' (VAT) are fundamental in any economy. Taxing on spending only is unfair for poors as the higher income/corporation need to pay tax for their income/profits. Both have different purpose.
You are right, taxes are high for Gambia considering very little government services in return. Because Gambian governments are able to collect tax from very small percentage of people, as they lack of resources, technology. As taxed population increase, tax rate should be reduced. For example, when you purchase something, there is no cash register. That would be one step so everyone collect receipts. This way they can introduce sales tax in wider business transactions. For example, in Turkey when they introduce the sales taxes first time, many business avoid using cash register and avoid to issue receipts. Then, government made obligation to issue receipt with sales tax, also for each tax receipt consumer collects, they introduced tax return. Basically, consumer get receipts that includes for example 10 percent sales tax. Then based on the receipts they collect, they get 5 percent return from the government. It was hassle but, people get the habits of getting receipts from the business. This was an excellent transition I remember in 80s when i was little kid, my father was asking me to getting receipt even for a candy.
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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Prince
507 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2010 : 09:17:19
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Well Turk, it looks like we also have different opinions on consumption tax v. production tax. It would be unjustifiable for governments to impose Scandinavian tax rates while giving out Gambian services. FYI, taxes NEVER go down with the broadening of tax base, politicians just shift the tax burden.
Gambia is a semi-rentier state (using aid and loans), introducing the direct taxes you're suggesting could easily threaten regime security! |
"When injustice becomes law, rebellion becomes duty." |
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