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toubab1020
12314 Posts |
 Posted - 27 Jul 2010 : 12:31:34
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I have just listned to the speeches made by the two political leaders of these countries (not because I like politics, I dont, it was on the TV news in UK )I did however find it interesting and commend Cameron on his stance, as we have a member here who lives in Turkey,it would be interesting if he posterd here,not forgetting the other politocs who are very frequent posters,but who I suspect are more into Gambian than world politics,anyway, anybody want to have a discussion? It is too early to post links here as this is happening now,perhaps later after the mainstream media have assembled this would be a better time for discussion,I await input from you all.
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"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jul 2010 : 15:34:08
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Touby
There are two school of thoughts in EU. One is 'united' and 'integrated' on the basis on 'culture', 'values'. The second one is 'union' 'loosely integrated' on the basis on 'wealth' and motivation of international influence'.
Charles De Gaul of France was against UK membership as one of the countries who support the 'integrated/united' Europe. So was Germany. Along with Austria who once threatened by Turkish invasion in 1600s, want EU to be one united country. They have the idea of centralization so the power can vertical i.e. the United States of America.
French president Sarkozy and German leader Merkel also against Turkish membership and they publicly stated that. But there is accession talk between EU and Turkey and this would end with the membership.
Obviously, 80 Million Turks would threat the idea of vertical power. In 2050, Turkey would be the most populated country with the most power in European institutions where the population determines your voting power.
But they also know that if Turkey is out there are two issues. One Turkey is booming economy and soon it will starting catching up Germany which is the biggest power in EU. The second is Turkey has strong military and political power with potential large influence in Turkestan and Middle east. And they are influence are increasing. Turkish Airlines now only country after Air France and British Airways that most number of flights to Africa. They want to be part of Turkish influence in the region.
Further, Turkey potentially could be threat to EU. Imagine Turkey has already has close economic partnership with Russia. Both countries tremendous political and economic power, EU should not want to have enemies like this.
So that is why they offer something is called 'privilege membership'. Where Turkey is part of EU economic zone and military but not in EU institutions. That is an insult. Besides, economically as much as EU and Turkey needs each other now, in the future, Turkey has brighter future than EU.
Recent concern about Turkey's shifting power to east have two reasons. One is 'racist' view of some Europeans toward Turks and the disappointment of Turkey feeling of 'unwelcome'. Second, Turkey has realized its potential in region. Remember, Turkey was the Empire not long ago ruling most Middle East. They are Muslim, they talk the language of region.
Personally, I do support the values of EU and Turkey would be part of it. But not on their terms. Turkey must have an equal status. It is has to be partnership. Of course, when Turkey enter to EU things will change in EU. The world is different now. For example, there should not be banned of building Mosques in EU and EU must change it is biased policy against Israel etc.
On the other hand, I don't want Turkey to join EU that is on decline. Turkey should give their attention to east where the economy and politics are on rise.
UK was supporter of Turkey. Because, UK along with Spain, Italy, Poland and Sweden do not desire EU to be centralist. They are supporting horizontal power structure.
I support Cameron for now. He is young, bright politician who could make a change. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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toubab1020
12314 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jul 2010 : 16:28:57
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TURK
I would not take exeption with a lot of that, what I would like to see is that the EU have much less involvement in politics,
free trade, yes,
movement of workers, yes,
powerful nations within the EU dictating policy, NO,
The EU as a body telling member nations what they can and cannot do, NO,
taking over soverignty of member nations, NO,
an integrated trading community, great idea.
Another place for politicians to suck vast allowences and saleries,talking round and round in circles doing nothing never making decissions at the expense of the peoples of the member states,NO.
EU as it exists now no thanks as a trading block, That I think would be a good idea |
"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jul 2010 : 16:36:51
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I would like EU to be economically integrated while its government organization is decentralized. However, those who want integration could have optional integrated version of EU. For example, just like the currency, it is optional whether you use Euro or not. Or it should be optional whether you are part of European Military or not. Or it should be optional to ratify the EU constitution or not with your legislation. If Germany and France, Sarkozy and Merkel have their fantasies of integration, i have no problem with that. I don't want to involve their business in the bedroom.
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 27 Jul 2010 16:38:52 |
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toubab1020
12314 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jul 2010 : 16:39:29
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Yes I agree with that, well put,I was going to include milatary things but you have done that and hit the nail on the head.Thanks.
quote:
Originally posted by turk
I would like EU to be economically integrated while its government organization is decentralized. However, those who want integration could have optional integrated version of EU. For example, just like the currency, it is optional whether you use Euro or not. Or it should be optional whether you are part of European Military or not. Or it should be optional to ratify the EU constitution or not with your legislation.
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"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2010 : 14:25:32
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| ...more on Cameron's support |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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toubab1020
12314 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2010 : 17:56:58
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Cameron is quite good at winning friends and influencing people,.much to the disappointment of the french and germans the paramount leaders of the confused conglomerate the EU ! |
"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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