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kaanibaa
United Kingdom
1169 Posts |
 Posted - 08 Jul 2009 : 12:33:01
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| I may be having my head stock up in cloud cuckoo land but hey man I second your position Kayjatta.At the risk of being tagged as unpatriotic I also subscribe to the doctrine of transparency and fair play, if indeed those persons whether six or forty four were actually killed in the country ,there is a need to find out who did kill them and why. Further to that I want to add that by the mere fact that they were killed in The Gambia and during those dark days of our history one needs to beware of not joining in the defence of that rogue regime as surely a lot of mysterious deaths have tainted their image and not even the use of waters from the mighty Atlantic Ocean would be enough to cleanse their hands. Compensation or contribution for me is word play on a diplomatic plate, ndunta maata muneh yedunjay ? It is Gambia not Ghana doing the contribution and that tells me something.This herring is so red and no one can colour it green , no way man!. |
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mansasulu
997 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jul 2009 : 14:42:54
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At the risk of sounding redundant, I think we are being presumptive. Yes, people have disappeared in Gambia under mysterious circumstances (totally unacceptable). However, promoting conjecture based on hearsay or irreconcilable facts will not help either. I am all for justice and transparency. Gambia is obliged to "pay contribution" to the families of the loss victims because these deaths happened on our soil since we as a nation failed to seal our borders.
It is within the realms of possibility that these Ghanians were killed by the smugglers so indicting Jammeh in as much as we detest him and his policies and calling it a genocide is rushing to judgement and totally unacceptable as well...my final two cents!
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"...Verily, in the remembrance of Allâh do hearts find rest..." Sura Al-Rad (Chapter 13, Verse 28)
...Gambian by birth, Muslim by the grace of Allah... |
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kaanibaa
United Kingdom
1169 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jul 2009 : 17:22:55
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Legal precepts define liability and the one that our state shoulders in this instance is that of vicarious liability, in that being the ruler or governing body it has the responsibility of securing the entirety of the nation and what happens to people and their properties including even passers-by is theirs to shoulder. If we are being presumptive we are so; due to the all pervading nature of the system of government in place, it leaves us no choice but depend on conjecture as they are hell bent on burying any news that they consider adverse.This is what brought about the clamp down on newspapers and journalists in the country and seemingly the government has a need to hide a skeleton in their dirty shady cupboards, needing therefore a very strong urge to expose the secrets . The fact remains that the government has not been very open, if open at all that is; about that particular incident and only got moved to act after all the so called presumptive news releases here and elsewhere. I want to believe that the actions so described had the desired effect .Under the prevailing circumstances people would depend on circumstantial evidence and on the fact that people have been disappearing all the time without any proper investigation by the state, or where people die and get seen dead the causes are left uninvestigated as required /where this fails to happen we are left with no choice but go on presuming. I think that in law there is space for presumption for example those called legal presumptions like the common presumption of innocent before being proven guilty in a properly constituted court.I thought the argument was about whether it was compensation or contribution to the families of the alleged dead persons , which for me is as I said word play on a diplomatic plate. This attitude of the Jammeh regime leaves much to be desired and does very little to defend their cause, those who try to defend them would always find these weaknesses making their platform wobbly and collapse under their feet so to speak.That was my layman's opinion am sure legal minds would be able to come up with much more pointers in these regards.Mansasulu , remember the proverb about the lamb and the wolf , they say "sulu tambita baring filita" , there was a lot of smoke about surely there was fire too, to presume thus is not unreasonable, to my mind.
In contrast though have a look at the way they paraded coup suspects etc on TV and getting them displayed as guilty or making "confessions of guilt" before the general public and before they even had the chance to a proper trail.This goes to show which side is being blinkered and who is doing so on the Gambian stage.I guess that was why the Point newspaper captioned a news release on getting on with allowing the courts to decide.How ever much we try to defend them,this facet of our ruling system is a rotten one and it is the cause of all this uproar for if they had been transparent about issues , rumour would have no place on the newspapers and rumour mills else where.Nii yamoye hooh asunkantaleh why! |
Edited by - kaanibaa on 08 Jul 2009 18:20:15 |
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mansasulu
997 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jul 2009 : 22:12:28
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| Kaanibaa, I am in no way trying to defend "them." All I am trying to point out is for us to exercise a little bit of level headedness less we become exactly like "them." God knows, all those who perpetuated crimes againts their fellow human being will answer for their crimes sooner or later. I just feel that we ought to temper our responses to some of these issues instead of just letting lose on theories that are at best based on conjecture with no solid facts. |
"...Verily, in the remembrance of Allâh do hearts find rest..." Sura Al-Rad (Chapter 13, Verse 28)
...Gambian by birth, Muslim by the grace of Allah... |
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kaanibaa
United Kingdom
1169 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2009 : 00:32:13
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| I am sorry for not getting your drift. I surely would not want to read you wrongly which I seem to have done here. I simply failed to understand what this is all about as it seems to me that Yahya Jammeh has enough defenders as if he needs one here, to make us feel haunted .Many a time I read postings about getting it correct or being moderate whilst all hell breaks lose back home with no one able to quench the fury of injustice ravaging the political landscape.This is what got to me and would I get a pardon for being too exuberant.At this rate one wonders why there is any need for intoxicants as reading certain postings are simply enough to get one going literally high as in being on a quick fix. Excuse my "French"! please as I do not know if am making any sense . Just got go to sleep so as not to be late getting up tomorrow. |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2009 : 02:51:27
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Thanks for your brilliant posts Kaanibaa.
mansasulu, your theory that "we do not know what happened to the Ghanians" is not going to fly here.
The point is that there are too many 'UNKNOWNS' in the Gambia, and the government refuses to investigate or follow through the leads in each of those cases:
1. the killing of Koro Ceesay
2. murder of Daba Marena and others
3. the murder of Deyda Hydara
4. the disaapearance of Chief Manneh
5. the disappearnace of the Headmaster, and many others secretly rotting in NIA cells around the country
6. the missing 44 Ghanians
7. the witchcraft saga
8. and more
In all of these cases the government denies responsibility, but refuses to investigate, and sometimes even obstruct investigation. Even after its conviction in the ECOWAS Court, the Jammeh government refuses to "compensate" (or may be "contribute  ) the family of Chief Manneh as ordered by the Court.
Now behind closed doors, after a lot of 'arm twisting' the Gambia government finally agreed to take some responsibility for the gruesome death of Ghanians, and will pay money for it. Alas! don't you think at some point even a hardened criminal breaks down and confess?
You know what Mansasulu, at some point you will have to decide whether you want to side with truth or associate with lies. It is your absolute choice. I think it was Albert Einstein who once said that even though he was a loner his "... sense of belonging to an invisible community of those who stand for truth and justice is what preserves..." him. Most of us who criticize the Gambia government now are no less patriotic than anyone including Jammeh Jilanka himself. We love the Gambia, and have and continue to contribute our little quota, in ideas and resources, towards her development. But like Einstein, our sense of belonging to and invisible community of those who stand for truth and justice does not allow us to be quiet while our homeland, once called an "oasis of peace" in a sub-region mired in chronic upheaval, sink into lawlessness even with the perception of false development ...
And now he is going around stomping his feet saying "Africa will not be colonized again". Well if African leaders do not put their acts together and put their citizens at the forefront of liberty and prosperity 'we' may have to 'invade and occupy' again. 'We' have enough troops and weapons to do so ... |
Edited by - kayjatta on 09 Jul 2009 02:54:21 |
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mansasulu
997 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2009 : 17:42:18
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Kay, the real truth lies between the atrocities Jammeh and his henchmen are "alleged" to have committed (some irrefutable and others uncollaborated) and the laughable inuendo and hearsay the likes of you continue to espouse and advance. The result is that we cannot distinguish what truely happened and what did not. Talk about trying to find a needle in a haysack of both extremes.
This is not a case of being with Jammeh and his "crimes" on one hand, or the propagandists, anarchists (the banner in the hands of Mathew K. Jallow and likeminded co) on the other hand. Gambians deserve better and we should demand better. I am not questioning anyone patriotism or what not. There is an alternative course we should be carving for the future of the Gambia and before both extremes are pushed to the sides we will never make traction. Talk about making a choice between the devil and the evil, none of which are palatable to me.
There is a reason why the majority of Gambians are sitting on the fence and until a viable alternative emerges they will continue to sit on the fence. |
"...Verily, in the remembrance of Allâh do hearts find rest..." Sura Al-Rad (Chapter 13, Verse 28)
...Gambian by birth, Muslim by the grace of Allah... |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2009 : 00:54:41
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Mansasulu, how does the saying go again: "when an elephant has its foot on the tail of a lizard, it is injustice to say that you are sitting on the fence". Considering the extent of poverty and the deplorable human rights situation in the Gambia recently, it is almost abominable to sit on the fence...
But thanks for associating me with Matt, the "rebel without a cause", and no doubt the "most qualified Gambian for president". By the way Mai Fatty, the leader of the Gambia Moral Congress party just organized a luncheon for the diplomatic corp in the Senegalese capital Dakar, just next door to Jammeh's seat of power. He looks great, almost Sir Dawda-like, in that 'grand boubou'... . In his speech in Mai NK Fatty, Esq. urged the Canadian (government) Embassy to make its position on the Gambia known, like the U.S., Britain, and many EU countries. This underscores the point that no one can afford to 'sit on the fence'. It is perhaps the highest level of hypocricy to say that 'oh yeah I am sitting on the fence'...
What really puzzles me in your argument is that how can we "refute and collaborate" (I guess you mean 'corroborate') when as the Mandingos would say "jalibaa singho be forrangho kang". It totally defies every sense of justice that the accused also be the investigator.
Can you tell me exactly what "inuendo and hearsay" you are talking about? All the cases I have listed above are out there in the open. Unless you are also saying that the whole world is wrong-the Amnesty International, the U.S. State Department,EU Foreign Office, International media and human rights organizations,and others- the sad state of affairs in the Gambia is common knowledge.
Condi Rice once said this of HAMAS, I think: "you cannot have one foot in terror and the other in politics". To that I add, you cannot have one foot in lies and secrecy and the other in truth, transparency and justice...
But I think George W. Bush was the one who said more bluntly: "you are either with us or with them"... . |
Edited by - kayjatta on 10 Jul 2009 08:27:20 |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
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mansasulu
997 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2009 : 15:33:19
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| Yes I meant to say corroborate...'innuendo and hearsay' is continuing to advance the theory that 44 Ghanians died on Gambian soil when the Goverment of Ghana officially petitioned for 6... |
"...Verily, in the remembrance of Allâh do hearts find rest..." Sura Al-Rad (Chapter 13, Verse 28)
...Gambian by birth, Muslim by the grace of Allah... |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
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