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anna
Netherlands
730 Posts |
 Posted - 26 Mar 2009 : 09:54:20
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Haha, what a funny topic which Snuggels started with her neutral remark 'interesting'. I am surprised Afonso, Santa and Lemon Time got carried away so easily and so quickly. Bev is right, Lemon. Your words are not sour but sulphuric, take them out!The verdicts came from (other) Gambian women, not from Snuggels (don't know if she is a Gambian). So, it's your own women judging you so negatively!
Very brave, Kay, to state that there is indeed room for improvement - but then, there always is for all of us.
As for you remark about Gambian men 'being accustomed to wielding far too uneven power over their women' (is it a Gambian, or African, or even Islamic characteristic??): i am afraid it is true, and it is sometimes hard on us - European or western partners. But at the same time it is exciting to 'play the game' and at the same time keep a good hold of the reigns ;-). So, never ask your Gambian male partner to do the vacuumcleaning (he will refuse) but shut up about it and you will hear the sound of the vacuum cleaner on Saturday morning while you're still in the shower........... |
When an old African dies, it is as if a whole library has burnt down.
Amadou Hampate Ba (Mali) |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2009 : 10:17:22
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There you go Anna! I think it might be more or less an African thing; the feminine movement did not take root in much of Africa. But I must add that we are far better than Saudi Arabians  . |
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anna
Netherlands
730 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2009 : 10:30:08
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in vacuum cleaning  ?
Of course, that was just an example but i am sure you agree that sharing the housekeeping chores with their women is not something that comes naturally to Gambian/African men  , even though we here are (fortunately) not in a classical situation of 'husband works hard and comes home bringing the money for the family, and wife stays at home all day to do the housekeeping'.
It took some coaching.... , don't know if it would work in SA (not that i have any plans going there)? |
When an old African dies, it is as if a whole library has burnt down.
Amadou Hampate Ba (Mali) |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2009 : 10:40:53
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Haha haha, right Anna. We are used to being treated as "kings" . But I still vacuum (although my daughter often wins me at that-she likes to vacuum all the time) and almost always do the laundry. I don't like cooking and groceries a lot, but sometimes do both too. I 'like' running errands, you know that "honey-do-list" thing huh  |
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snuggels
960 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2009 : 12:22:37
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Turk
You said I didnt get your point. I asked you to explain as yet you have failed to do so
So I think we can assume that it was just your opinion. Which we are all entitled to.
But as usual you go into attack mode
Alfonso
You said I believe you are the greatest liar on this site. If you had read the the header on the thread you will see I was just the messenger
You also said
satamfara, it really hurts if stoogies try to take my dear Gambia to ransom on stupid irrelevant issues.. If you read the small print in this section of Bantaba you will read
“This place is for community members to discuss topics regarding relationship issues, behaviour and other values ..................
Lemon Time
Your reply is not worthy of comment so I wont waste my time
Gambiabev
I think you got it right in your reply to Turk
Finaly
This is like the television series the Darleks Attack Attack Attack As we see so many times on Bantaba, say anything detrimental about Gambians or Gambia and you are attacked and all hell breaks lose instead of debating the subject at hand. There is a saying
“Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned” Delete the word women and insert Gambian
.If you were to read the thread again this time properly you will see these are not my experiences or views. But various statements of negative experiences of some Gambian women. So this was an opportunity on Bantaba for Gambian women to put the positive view of which there has been no or very little response and it appears most of the replies are from men
My own view is there are good and bad every where I don’t have to say anymore.
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2009 : 12:32:27
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snuggles
Are you saying this is attack! I thought I was being nice to you.
OK, my point was, noooooooooo one likes to be on the spot. What i meant was that Gambian men can be as good or as bad as anyone else. You should know better, no ethnicity, race, religion are different when it comes to 'good' ones or 'bad' ones. To be honest I was not happy about the question much. Politely, I was warning you.
But if you insist for answer, 100 % of Gambians men are not worth it! :)
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 26 Mar 2009 12:34:07 |
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tamsier
United Kingdom
556 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2009 : 16:53:44
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Well, my mother still tell us when she was pregnant with my elder brother, elder sister and I, my dad would not let her do anything, he did all the work and then left for his normal job. My mum had to remind him she was not an invalid. Not all Gambian men consider themselves above women and marry lots of wives. I must be one of the lucky few then because my dad had only one wife [my mother], and refused to have another and worked damned hard to provide for his family - until it finally killed him -instead of resting and taking a break as the doctors ordered, he continued working when he was supposed to retire. The same held true for my grand father.
As a Gambian man, I can see were snuggels is coming from. There are low life men in The Gambia. I call them 'the good for nothings' - my dad used to call them something else worst, that i will not repeat here. They do nothing at all or at least make the effort to find a job and expect their wives to work and feed them. Haven't they no shame? I appreciated things are hard,but even applying to be a gardener, or night watchman as guys who can't get any other job used to do is better than just sitting around and dreaming of coming to europe. I have heard of snuggels remarks from my sister [and some of my gambian female friends] who went out with a gambian man before and expected her to do everything for him. Not only is my sister more educated than him, he is in no way her equal. However, my sister just put it down to bad experience rather than castigated all Gambian men. She is old fashion just like me and refuse to go out with any other nationality apart from a Segambian man. Just like me, she say she will rather go single than marry out.
By the same token, I have heard of Gambian men complained about some Gambian women. They accused some Gambian women [in the west] of one of the most un-noble thing a woman can do in my book: [prostitution] or having polygamous relationships themselves [their husband who have paid for them to come to the west staying in the gambia] and they come here and marry someone else or go on the game. What this shows me is that, there is either a great heatred/distrust between the gambian male and female youths or it is just another stupid excuse to marry out. You find useless men and useless women every where you go. If you have a good sense of character, you do not want to be associated with those people anyway. Ignore them and find someone else in the pool. Some people are lucky, they find their perfect match in a short time whilst some people wait longer. If one is not happy about Gambian men/women, marry Senegalese men/women then, or even a Malian, after all, we are related.
By the way, the marrying of more than one wife although Africans have been doing it before islam, when they did it in the old days before mass conversion to islam, they would discuss it with the first wife [awo]. If the awo disagrees with it, the man cannot have a [sait]. In most cases were the awo agrees for her husband to remarry, it is only to have another woman help her with the domestic chores while her husband is on the hunting/herding field. If a woman does not wish to enter into a polygamous relationship, she would voice it to her parents and her parents would voice it to the parents of the man in front of the elders. If the man agrees to obey this, this becomes a binding contract and the man cannot go back on his word at a later stage. Some of you may be familiar with that ancient wolof chant 'lingeer ken do ko jen deh jigen'. Women were held in high esteem and they did not just jump because a man says so. All these rules and tradition changed when islam became the dominant religion in Senegambia. The Quran gave men the right to marry more than one wife, the men couldn't believe their luck. Now they can marry as many wives as they like without having to resort back to old tradition, ie. discussion with their awo or the objection of the awo at the sealing of the marriage. Instead, they took this islamic law and power and ran a mile. With this unbalanced power which they use islam to justify, women became second class citizens.
DO NOT ACCUSE ME OF ANTI ISLAM. I AM ONLY STATING THE TRUTH.
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Tamsier
Serere heritage. Serere religion. Serere to the end.
Roog a fa ha. |
Edited by - tamsier on 26 Mar 2009 17:07:47 |
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snuggels
960 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2009 : 17:44:08
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Tamsier. Thank you for your very positive and constructive input.
On a lighter note as an old friend of mine said to me in Gambia
Do not tolerate a bad relationship if you can get out because Men/Women
are like Bush Taxis another one will be along in a minute |
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LEMON TIME
Afghanistan
1295 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2009 : 18:04:51
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Thursday 26 March 2009 | Fashion feed | All feeds
From left: Annie Labura, Vanessa Muscara and Jennifer Rohn
Good news for British men: there have never been so many attractive, single women from abroad looking for love. The bad news? They think you're a lazy, unchivalrous, emotionally retarded and - eek - effeminate bunch. Hey, steady on now girls, says Julia Llewellyn Smith
When Jennifer Rohn arrived in London from Idaho, America, ten years ago she had a vision of a typical British man: a mix of Hugh Grant, Lord Byron and Colin 'wet shirt' Firth in Pride & Prejudice. This man would have floppy hair and wear Savile Row suits; he would pick her up in his Aston Martin, take her to dinner at Scott's and then woo her with some Marvell in front of a blazing log fire back at his country pile. The reality, however, was more disappointing.
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Andrew Davies: champion of the bodice ripper'British men are certainly witty and charming,' says Jennifer, now 39 and a cell biologist. 'In fact, I'd say they were witty and charming to the point where they're a bit in-your-face. But then you ask them out and they run a mile. Basically, they charm the pants off you but then they run away when they see your knickers.'
With about 700,000 foreigners now estimated to be living permanently in Britain, romantic prospects have never been rosier for British men. Our cities are full of attractive, bright young women from all over the world. Yet, too often, the men they view as potential breeding partners turn out to be less James Bond and more Austin Powers.
Researching this article has given me a startling insight into the peculiar nuances of our mating practices. It was only, for example, on talking to Jennifer and other foreign women that I realised that every significant relationship in my life had begun with the help of several bottles of wine. The British may be constantly berated for our binge-drinking, but for a race so shy alcohol is vital in lubricating confidence. Without it, British DNA would probably have fizzled out centuries ago.
Even with the help of drink, our relationships progress at a tortoise pace that other nationalities find exasperating. 'In all the time I've been here I have always had to do the asking out. A man has never asked me,' Jennifer says, sighing. 'And don't think I'm not attractive, because I am.' It's a remark that - while true - would never issue from the mouth of a self-deprecating Brit.
Part of the problem is that the goal of British courtship is not simply to find a life partner. It is also about doing everything possible to avoid what we hate most - making fools of ourselves. No wonder, then, that extravagant compliments, overt flirtation and official 'dates' - all considered normal virtually everywhere else - fail to thrive in the land of the stiff upper lip. Terrified of humiliating rejection, British men, it seems, will do almost anything to avoid showing their true feelings until they are certain they will be reciprocated.
I suspect Jennifer's direct approach is simply too intimidating for our men, who prefer face-saving manoeuvres where no one is ever put on the spot. Despite such cultural misunderstandings, she eventually won the heart of Matt, her boyfriend of three years. 'Later I found out he didn't like me at first because he thought I was too aggressive,' she says. 'I just don't know how to play it.'
Maryam, 31, an engineer who moved to London from Iran four years ago to work as a beautician, echoes Jennifer's words. 'British men seem to think women are mind-readers,' she complains. 'In my country, if you like a man, you make eye contact with him once, then you look at him again for longer and he knows you are interested. But how do you know here if someone likes you?' She can see some benefits to this diffidence. 'Iranian men say, "I love you, you are a queen." They're nice words but they don't mean anything. With an Englishman you know it's sincere, and I like that.'
Yet while we may be slow to say, 'I love you,' we waste little time getting physical - as underlined by our teenage pregnancy rate, the highest in western Europe. Inevitably, this poses problems for Maryam, who, while not a practising Muslim, grew up in an Islamic culture. 'In Iran people do sleep together before they are married but not before maybe five, six years,' she says. 'Here men expect it of you after perhaps the third date. It makes things awkward for me, because I cannot do that. Then the Englishman thinks I don't like him when the opposite is true. I feel guilty about it but it's too much part of my culture to oppose.'
And while Maryam left Iran for a society where women had more freedom, egalitarianism, she feels, can go too far. 'I remember my first date with a British man in a restaurant: the bill came and I waited for him to take his wallet out but he did nothing. In the end I realised he wanted us to split it. I think that's terrible. If a man can't even pay for dinner how is he going to support you and a child?'
Like Maryam, Yoshimi, 32, from Tokyo, who has lived in London for three years teaching Japanese cookery, was attracted to Britain because it offered more professional and personal opportunities to women. Recently she joined a dating agency, Destina Japan, with the aim of finding a British husband.
'French and Italian men come on too strong for me,' she says. 'I like the fact English men are shyer. I find them more down-to-earth and I feel I can trust them. They may not compliment you often, but they're better than Japanese men, who never say anything nice to their wives.
'I used to live in America and there men opened doors and said, "Ladies first," and helped me on with my jacket, because I think American women need a lot of attention. English women are much more independent, and perhaps as a result British men don't treat them so courteously.'
Predictably, women from Latin cultures tend to be most unnerved by what they perceive as our lack of chivalry. Vanessa Muscara, an Italian financial analyst who has lived here on and off for 13 years, cannot imagine settling down with a British man. 'I never know what they are thinking and they never flatter you,' says Vanessa, 31, from Rome. 'However much of an effort I made for my ex, he never said, "You look great." The best I'd get was, "You look well." It drove me crazy. Women are meant to make an effort to look attractive, and it should be acknowledged. Women complain about Italian men being sleazy, but what's wrong with a "Ciao, bella" when you're looking your best?'
Being so emotionally constipated, the British are unsurprisingly the heaviest users of social networking sites in Europe. Recent research showed that the average Briton spent nearly six hours a month bantering on sites such as Facebook compared, say, with two hours for the French. By the same token, we have embraced the cowardly art of text-messaging, much to the disgust of the forthright Jennifer Rohn. 'No one speaks to each other directly,' she says. 'They send these cryptic little texts and then spend ages decoding them. I used to work with a group of younger women and they were always saying, "It's been five days since I had a text. What should I do?" or, "What does this text mean?" I was forever having to proofread their replies and I'd think, "Come on, girls, why don't you just call him?"'
Annie Labura, 35, an actress from Croatia, has been constantly frustrated by British evasiveness, too. 'I had boyfriends who'd say things like, "At Christmas I'm going to go to the Red Sea. You should come with me."I'd think, "Hey, we're planning holidays - this guy's thinking marriage!" It took me a long time to realise he didn't really mean it; he just didn't want to be rude. That got me hurt a lot. In Croatia you know where you stand with people. There's none of this game-playing. Here people are too repressed to tell you the truth.'
Annie is especially unimpressed by our prudishness. 'With one of my exes, if we ever held hands in front of his parents, he'd tell me off for PDA [public displays of affection]. If they showed affection to each other, he'd squirm and say it was disgusting. In Croatia you think it's wonderful your mother and father love each other and can show it.'
I sympathise with many of my interviewees' criticisms, but some of their complaints leave me baffled. Annie is appalled at how 'effeminate' British men are. 'I remember finding my first British boyfriend, who was a real rugby-playing type, ironing. I was totally gobsmacked,' she recalls. 'I offered to do it for him, but he got quite huffy and said he ironed better than his mother.'
But surely a man who irons is a prize? Annie shakes her head. 'In Croatia men sit on the sofa with a beer and women run around and look after the house. I may be a peasant, but I somehow think it's my job to cook and do laundry, while the man fixes the car.'
So should we despair of the British man? Initially, talking to these women, I thought so. Yet, reading between the lines, the positive qualities are there. They may not hold open doors for us, but at least they do their own ironing. They may not gush, but nor do they mislead us. They may not come straight to the point, but they do embrace life's ambiguities with sophistication and humour.
Jennifer Rohn agrees. 'On average British men are more articulate and amusing than Americans. They seem more willing to take the funny and absurd angle on things, and to go at life with a healthy sense of fun.' Annie Labura concurs. 'They're clever and sensitive and I can really talk to them.'
Maryam stresses that, for all her misgivings, she would still rather marry a British man than an Iranian. 'They have what we call "clean eyes". They don't stare at other women when their wife isn't there - unlike the Spanish.' She smiles. 'Look, I think your men are really good and nice. If they weren't so lazy, they'd be fantastic.'
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There is no god but Allah |
Edited by - LEMON TIME on 26 Mar 2009 18:14:18 |
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LEMON TIME
Afghanistan
1295 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2009 : 18:22:05
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(BEV) Why can't British women get a man?
Because they are overweight, unkempt and lazy about grooming, says a screenwriter who's made it his business to date women on both sides of the Atlantic.
American-born Tad Safran - who spends his time in London and Los Angeles - says English women are stunning natural beauties when young, but they fail to rise to the challenge as they age and need to make more of an effort.
He complains that they don't take enough care of their appearance and fitness, and drink and eat too much.
When it comes to beauty, American women win hands down.
Scroll down for more...
British women are 'lazy' when it comes to personal grooming (Bridget Jones, left) while American women (Carrie Bradshaw, right) take pride in their appearance
"In the iconic chick-flick Bridget Jones, the title character is a sad, lonely, overweight, posh-sounding chain-smoker in her thirties with a drinking problem and no dating prospects," he tells The Times.
"She then, one day, goes to a gym for an hour or two, spends £200 at TopShop, reads a self-help book and, lo and behold, she finds herself in the delightful position of having to decide between Hugh Grant and Colin Firth.
"Women of Britain: Bridget Jones's Diary is not a documentary. It's a work of fiction, a fairy tale."
Safran says American women will spend £350 a month on "beauty maintenance" (including hair, manicures and waxing) and an additional £500 on physical conditioning (including yoga and fitness training). On top of that, they go on occasional spa days and special fitness camps.
"I'm not sure any of my British female friends spends £700 during an entire year on her appearance."
He blames the failures of British women on friends not being honest with each other over their appearance, and mothers who do not teach women how to look after themselves. In America, women start going to spas in childhood.
Safran cites a recent dinner with his friend and his wife, who invited along a face from the past, named 'Sophie' to protect her real name.
Safran was friends with 'Sophie' 15 years ago and considered her a "truly beautiful" girl and was pleased when his friend's wife told him she hadn't changed at all and "still had the body of a 20-year-old".
However, Safran insists he was horrified by 'Sophie's current appearance, declaring if she did have the body of a 20-year-old, it was "dismembered in her freezer at home. She certainly didn't have it on her skeleton".
Safran was umimpressed with Sophie's presentation. He said: "'Sophie' tumbled into the house looking like a refugee from Hurricane Katrina. She smelt like the R&D lab at Philip Morris. Her outfit was about as sexy as half-pound of ground meat."
His shock continued when 'Sophie' tucked into a hearty meal of Shepherd's pie, which according to Safran, "no self-respecting American girl consumes carbohydrates after 2pm".
Even our celebrities can't get it right compared to the glamour of Hollywood.
Helena Bonham Carter was an example of an English rose, says Safran, but she is regularly photographed looking like "a bag of spanners".
You would never catch her American equivalent, Michelle Pfeiffer, with a hair out of place.
Scroll down for more...
Michelle Pfeiffer (left) at 49 is eight years older than Helena Bonham Carter (right), but looks all the better for it
The one aspect of beauty that British women do care about is their shoes, he says. But, alas, while other women are impressed by footwear, men simply do not notice.
But it is not all bad news for British women. They do score higher than Americans in social skills.
Americans take themselves too seriously and are more grasping than British girls, who are the most self-reliant, uncomplicated and unflappable.
While British women appear to prefer the natural look and "are not obsessed with their looks", Safran claims American women spend more money on cosmetically enhancing themselves - but deny it.
British women are also renowned for having the best sense of humour, "the best of have a pint and a laugh with".
Their self-deprecating humour about their least favourite parts of their body is "incredibly endearing".
But despite all the good qualities owned by British women, Safran says many men will fail to overlook the "all-important first impression" and wait to experience them.
Print this article Read later |
There is no god but Allah |
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tamsier
United Kingdom
556 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2009 : 19:15:16
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Snuggels
I agree with your friend. It's the same old saying 'plenty of fish in the sea'.
Sorry for going away from the topic
but
Turk
Would you do us all a favour and get rid of that ugly picture [Mr Y.J]. My word haven't you got a better picture?
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Tamsier
Serere heritage. Serere religion. Serere to the end.
Roog a fa ha. |
Edited by - tamsier on 26 Mar 2009 19:22:41 |
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afonso
Gambia
13 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2009 : 19:19:45
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| Snugells, what ever you say is junks to me. You posted this story so you must answer for it. Next time I suggest you pass such stories to their original writers to post and not you as the middleman.Better still if you are posting another persons story please make it clear and dont try to make readers assume its your idea, and above all why not direct such third parties postings sto the editor or moderator of this forum to address and not You. I am glad you have had enough from us. |
Lets exchange valuable ideas |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2009 : 19:46:41
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Lemon time why did you direct your comments to me in particular? Do you imagine me to be a bit like Bridget Jones? I am, but nearly 20 years older!
I write a diary and drink white wine!
I think British women are less appearance obsessed than Americans and less superficial. I think that is a GOOD thing!
I don't want a superficial judgemental man, so take me as I am!
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Hiz Princess
United Kingdom
464 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2009 : 19:53:28
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Forgive my ignorance but I was under the impression that Snuggles was in fact a He not a She
This is a problem when things are lifted out of context and with no link or recognition to the true source. Admitely you said it was from another forum but it looked like you had edited yourself plus who knows what prompted these exchanges in the first place.
I actually joined this site because someone close to me was horrified that her original conversation with the MD of GE had been cut and pasted here totally out of context for god knows what reason.
As for the rest bleggggh
Though I have to say your last 2 postings lemon put a wry smile on my face 
Tut at me a English woman and all |
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Hiz Princess
United Kingdom
464 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2009 : 19:56:37
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quote:
Originally posted by tamsier
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Sorry for going away from the topic
but
Turk
Would you do us all a favour and get rid of that ugly picture [Mr Y.J]. My word haven't you got a better picture?
Tasmier I also asked Turk the same question but he ignore me  |
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