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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
 Posted - 17 Jul 2008 : 05:06:18
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Lily
Would you support the idea of compensation to Africa by western colonizers. Here is the formula, as Africa was colonized by France and UK, let us calculate the export figures from Africa, than apply (discount avarage gdp growth/inflation) from this figure 300 years back. And investment bank would put this money infrastructure like, roads, power generators etc.. What do you think? |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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Lily
United Kingdom
422 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2008 : 09:16:11
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I think it would never end. The current fashion for the people living now to apologise for what their ancestors did does grate at times with me. Not because I condone what was done but if we constantly have guilt and shame tactics where does it end and with whom? Should Arabs compensate Spain; Italians be held responsible for the Roman Empire, Iranians for the Persian? Russia compensate Lithuania? Britain and France were not the only colonisers ....
As has been said - enough of the blame game; let's move forward ......
Although you could say that the West does pay/repay Africa daily - and I don't mean what governments do, I mean what every day ("normal") citizens - like a lot of people here on Bantaba - do to support families there.... |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2008 : 10:15:47
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Colonization of Africa was recent history. It was just 30-40 years ago. Germany paid for jews. Why not africans? Well, there are number of people, whom I have great deal of respect, is doing a lot for the people of africa. But that is like 1 in 10000. Very insignificant. I am talking about the ones NOT DOING.
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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Lily
United Kingdom
422 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2008 : 11:00:22
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Ahhh - the ones who are not doing: the silent majority .....
What can I - or anyone say about them .........
But: colonisation of Africa is not really recent history ........ |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2008 : 14:34:43
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| Lily, do you know when gambia get their independence? |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
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Lily
United Kingdom
422 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2008 : 16:06:00
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| Of course. But that's when colonisation ended - not began! |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2008 : 22:56:06
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You see, that is the significant difference in perspectives between aggressors and victims. Your thinking, that was past, but you enjoy the wealth you have built since the beginning until recently. The victim should forgive you now, but continue to suffer. So your the understanding of justice is 'forgiveness'. What you are saying is we have commit terrible crimes and african are suffering now because of it. But there is nothing we can do. Please forgive us. Can you confirm?
Also, you go further and say, we cause almost all of the world polution and global warming as industrial western nations, NOW, that in PAST, the cost of environmental problems like recent draught, food prices increase are our fault. The impact of global warming on you is our fault. We are wealthy using SUVs, luxuries products that generates more pollutions, and that is at the expense of you. But it is ok, forgive us. |
diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 17 Jul 2008 23:03:03 |
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Lily
United Kingdom
422 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2008 : 22:58:30
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| Careful Turk - you insult when you call me an aggressor. |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2008 : 08:08:01
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It is not insult. When i say agressor, i am refering two in the relationship of colonizor and colonized. Lily, you are taking position by rejecting the idea of compensation. You are benefiting from all the wealth which was created by the colonization. And you will continue to benefit while the victims are suffering from the burden which was created by colonization. So you are one side, victim is on the other side. You may not actually take any action so you did not commit a crime. But when you have been given chance to for 'repayment', you take position and keep what you have. If you would tell, me. 'Yes, right Africa needs to be paid back by us, because our wealth is based on what we stole from them', you may not became victim, but at least you would be on victim's side.
A lots of things can be done for africa.
1. Take all the cost for environmental polution.
2. Allow, migration from Africa.
3. Set a fixed budget percentage for african aid.
4. Stop agriculture subsidy and reduce tariffs for african products
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 18 Jul 2008 08:15:26 |
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MeMe
United Kingdom
541 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2008 : 10:53:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Lily
Careful Turk - you insult when you call me an aggressor.
Lily, there's no discussing with Turk which is why I long ago decided to never directly reply to anything he posts ... however, it's interesting that given he's of Turkish origin (I assume from the name?!) and the Ottoman empire was certainly widespread and that he lives in a formal penal colony of Great Britain, he's getting at you for colonialisation - go figure!!    |
It is better to die standing than to live on your knees - Ernesto Guevara de la Serna |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2008 : 11:16:55
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quote:
Originally posted by turk
It is not insult. When i say agressor, i am refering two in the relationship of colonizor and colonized. Lily, you are taking position by rejecting the idea of compensation. You are benefiting from all the wealth which was created by the colonization. And you will continue to benefit while the victims are suffering from the burden which was created by colonization. So you are one side, victim is on the other side. You may not actually take any action so you did not commit a crime. But when you have been given chance to for 'repayment', you take position and keep what you have. If you would tell, me. 'Yes, right Africa needs to be paid back by us, because our wealth is based on what we stole from them', you may not became victim, but at least you would be on victim's side.
A lots of things can be done for africa.
1. Take all the cost for environmental polution.
2. Allow, migration from Africa.
3. Set a fixed budget percentage for african aid.
4. Stop agriculture subsidy and reduce tariffs for african products
Kind of reminds me of Walter Rodney's book "How Europe Underdeveloped Africa".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_Europe_Underdeveloped_Africa |
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turk
USA
3356 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2008 : 14:23:36
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meme. boo hoo. you getting personal again. I have not been harsh on you recently.
have you heard that people go work other countries because they are sent for work assignment. You are getting absolute. acting more childish instead of getting wiser.
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diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.
Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices. |
Edited by - turk on 18 Jul 2008 14:25:28 |
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kobo
United Kingdom
7765 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2008 : 16:39:51
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In my opinion our crunch with Mugabe is the way ZIMBABWE'S 2nd ROUND PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS was conducted and not about good or bad legacy.
We have witnessed how those elections were conducted and its un-acceptable to endorsed Mugabe's legitimacy to rule. He was ready to face any condemnation and a military take over was justified!
Reasons for role of military in terms of certain political crises and dealing with corrupt leaders:-
i) To defend the nation's sovereignty; safeguard its constitution, rights and freedoms of citizens!
ii) PLEDGING ALLEGIANCE TO THE STATE (NATIONAL INTERESTS!) and not allegiance to any individual or personal interests!
iii) Professionalism, highly trained, Political awareness ,Decisiveness/Best judgement of Army command, rule of law (Law enforcement and JUSTICE) & "WITHOUT FEAR & FAVOUR!" |
Edited by - kobo on 18 Jul 2008 16:57:27 |
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dbaldeh
USA
934 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2008 : 09:39:08
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Brother Kobo spot on. I completely agree that the number one role of the military is to protect the sovereign right of a nation, its constitution and protection of its citizens from abuse either external or internal.
It is therefore perfectly justified for the good military men and women of a nation to intervene and rescue the soverign right of the people from its own leaders.
My only concern is that these military after tasting power has had a history of staying on instead of retreating to the barracks and making sure that corrupt civilians do not abuse the power given to them by the people to rule.
But you see African leaders found a way to be in bed with the military by giving them access to abundance resouces so they can fight for the wicked leaders to stay. Ultimately, they still kick their butts and regain power.
So I wish that African military will once again regain their dignity and respect to safegaurd the interest of the people. This is probably a dream that is far fetch. If I was an African leader I would once again reinject that sense of responsibility on the military, but am not and will never be... |
Baldeh,
"Be the change you want to see in the world" Ghandi
Visit http://www.gainako.com for your daily news and politics |
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njucks
Gambia
1131 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2008 : 13:31:01
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it seems the African approach of DIALOGUE might just yield a solution towards this African problem, this afternoon.Mugabe & Tsvangirai might sign a deal.fingers crossed
i sincerely hope that the Rhodes there will not make any stupid last minute comments that will cause more distractions.
Another good read from the Times, perhaps afterall it was a case of ...“black hands on white thighs” - fears for the 20,000 or so British who remain.
Something must be done, the pundits say. Ministers huff and the Prime Minister puffs - and the effect is negligible. Of course, the human rights abuse in Zimbabwe is outrageous. But does it exceed Darfur, are the numbers trapped in misery greater than in Congo? Does the failure of the state match the collapse in Somalia?
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article4251143.ece |
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