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Momodou
Denmark
11787 Posts |
 Posted - 07 Apr 2008 : 21:21:34
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A clear conscience fears no accusation - proverb from Sierra Leone |
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2008 : 22:17:11
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If some polio vaccines contained monkey virus, and AIDS is from monkeys, could there have been medical errors in the mass innoculation campaigns in africa against diseases like polio.
I rememeber the long lines in towns and villages for mass innoculatins. |
“When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always.” |
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njucks
Gambia
1131 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2008 : 23:14:05
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 . scientists who have made inferior breakthroughs have been awarded a Nobel Prize for work in Medicine. |
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2008 : 23:29:31
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Do we have a case to seek redress? If people can sue for medical malpractice, how about giving out infected vaccines?
Can a medically inclined member weign-in here? |
“When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always.” |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2008 : 08:01:03
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quote:
Originally posted by kondorong
Do we have a case to seek redress? If people can sue for medical malpractice, how about giving out infected vaccines?
Can a medically inclined member weign-in here?
I am not medically inclined (well, may be); but I will try. First of all you have to answer a few questions before beginning the process of redress, such as:
1. Which court have jurisdiction to hear this kind of case (Gambian courts? International Human Rights court?)
2. What cause of action (battery? negligence? intentional negligence?)
3. Is the vaccine actually medically proven to be connected to the cause of HIV AIDS?
4. At the time of the mass vaccinations did the doctors know or should have known that the vaccine could cause HIV AIDS?
5. Was the vaccine in question here generally used and widely accepted in the medical community at the time? Or this vaccine was just a guinea pig trial? The 'state of the art' defense is available in medical malpractice cases.
6. Did the victims or their parents or legal guardians receive adequate information about the benefits and side effects of the vaccine at the time of innoculation? Was the right to medical consent established?
Kondorong, the answer to your question will partly depend on the answers to these questions.Did I made this issue too complicated already?
There is a joke in the legal community about a client who walked into a law office and demanded to see a "one handed" lawyer. When he was asked why he wants to see a lawyer with one hand, he answered that he was tired of talking to lawyers who would not directly answer the questions to his problem; instead they keep telling him "on one hand this and that, and on the other hand this that...". Funny isn't it?
WARNING: This is not a legal advice. I am not a lawyer. If anyone needs legal advice please consult a licensed attorney. |
Edited by - kayjatta on 08 Apr 2008 08:06:52 |
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tamsier
United Kingdom
557 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2008 : 15:01:50
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| Brilliant documentary Momodou. The Scientific community have really done it. In their attempt to erradicate the polio disease, they created another. I remembered that debate very well in the 1990s - when Ed's book came out. Instead of admitting the truth, the scientists refused to budge in fear of damaging their reputations and the huge implications of their errors. In answer to one of Kay's question, [perhaps the most, or one of the most important questions he raised]-, based on this documentary,Ed's book as well as Professor Hamilton's work [the one who would later die mysteriously in the Congo - in his attempt to collect data, thought they said he died from malaria, other members of the scientific community who refused to keep quite disagreed],Professor Hilary Pokovsky indeed new or should have known the danger or implications of his trials in the Congo. Before his mass trials commenced in the late 1950s, he indeed received a scientific report from one of his colleagues and old time friend stating the dangers of that trial. He outlined a new disease [hiv-aids as we know it to day]that was bound to result from that 'experiment'. Professor Hilary disagreed and decided to go ahead anyway. That was about money; reputation; testing a theory and the first to find a cure [which would lead to publishing a book, being invited to give talks, royalties from patented drugs etc]. They may have cured/treated polio but they created another disease - an incurable one [hiv-aids]. The Congo [a former Belgian colony] would be their choosen location. Those 'guinea pigs' would not have been told the implications of the drugs they were being given. Of course they would have been told that the drugs would cure/prevent them from cathing polio, but that's all they would have been told. 'Total honesty' for lack of a better phrase, within the medical profession is a recent phenomenon. It did not even happen in the West never mind in the Congo. They would have been honest of course if the side effects were minor eg. headeaches etc, but that was were it ended. Generally speaking, people would rather put up with a minor medical problem than a major one - this is not rocket science. 'Totally honesty' within the profession is a new/recent phenomenon. Part of Proffesor Hilary may have wanted the erradication of polio in the congo etc, but his main motifs were self-serving. |
Tamsier
Serere heritage. Serere religion. Serere to the end.
Roog a fa ha. |
Edited by - tamsier on 08 Apr 2008 15:08:18 |
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sab
United Kingdom
912 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2008 : 16:21:25
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Thanks Momodou for an excellent documentary.
A frightening thought to just how dangerous The President with his undisclosed cure for HIV/AIDS (key actors keeping silent - as the scientists were described in the video) & the new Toskani Pharmaceutical Company being built in The Gambia could be?
If I remember correctly Mbowe stated, “Gambians will be trained to take over the production of the drugs (WHO still states The Gambia has 8 pharmacists) made possible because of the creativity, dynamic and visionary leadership of Yahya. Six months later, the President declared he could cure AIDS!
We should note Bill Hamilton’s warning “if the relationship between pharmaceutical groups and science are not challenged then other catastrophes may already be in the making.”
sab.
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The world would be a poorer place if it was peopled by children whose parents risked nothing in the cause of social justice, for fear of personal loss. (Joe Slovo - African revolutionary) |
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Momodou
Denmark
11787 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2008 : 09:19:34
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Tamsier & Sab, the link to this documentary video was forwarded to me by a friend and I thought some of you might find it interesting.
So it was not at all strange that nobody over forty years old had the virus when it was first announced in the eighties. |
A clear conscience fears no accusation - proverb from Sierra Leone |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2008 : 09:51:59
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There are other theories that claim that the virus was a product of the "Cold War" biological weapons development in U.S. laboratotries. Another theory holds that the virus was a conspiracy to destroy the gay community (the virus and the disease, according to some evidence, was first noticed in the gay men).
Also there is a condition in American children called autism, believed (even by some doctors) to be caused by mercury in many childhood vaccines. As a result, some parents are opting not vaccinate their kids...
So far, I am not aware of any lawsuits concerning this matter... |
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2008 : 18:08:11
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They will come as people see what lay under the carpets.
If we can trace to the mass inoculations, which i was never impressed as i did not see the needles being changed, then my village will surely be part of the class action. |
“When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always.” |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2008 : 07:13:40
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| Yes, probably so... |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2008 : 08:23:38
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I teach autistic pupils. Most aren't MADE autistic, but are born that way. It is neurological. It also has a genetic link, usually through the father (! Of course!  ).
I am aware of some cases where parents are convinced the MMR vacine CHANGED their normal functioning child into an autistic child. These cases are very sad and difficult for the parents to come to terms with.
The scientific community ON THE WHOLE disagrees with this and says there is little evidence. |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2008 : 09:57:31
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Good to hear from you, Bev. You are absolutely right. While the causes of autism is not quite settled, many scientists and medical doctors do not subscribe to the vaccine theory at all. It is a very complex issue. This site might also be helpful...
http://autism.about.com/od/whatisautism/p/autismcauses.htm |
Edited by - kayjatta on 10 Apr 2008 09:58:15 |
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