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lurker
509 Posts |
 Posted - 02 Nov 2007 : 18:04:48
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i know this is sort of being dealt with in another thread and i do not want to ask for repeats, but i have a question in this arena.
i believe the future of africa depends hugely on the empowerment of women. i also know that FGM ( which i personally find appalling) is a huge part of African culture.
are the two compatible?
My feeling is that this archaic practice, predicated on some *****ic theory from men that women are inherently promiscuous and need to be controlled, is a typical example of women being held in check.(perhaps i am wrong in the rationale behind its inception and i stand to be corrected) Are men still thinking as they did centuries ago? are women happy to undergo this procedure or are they supplicant in accepting it as "culturally necessary"?
Would banning this totally be a big step forward in liberating the hearts and minds of african womanhood?
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mansasulu
997 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2007 : 19:40:50
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| Lurker, I think we all should be for the empowerment of women. It is a matter of meeting the basic human rights that we should all enjoy. Furthermore, while we are obsessed with the intricacies of the African culture I hope we dont forget that women all over, particularly in the west today are under another form of assault called Vaginoplasty (labiaplasty). If this is not a form of FGM I dont know what is. The problem is there are no calls to ban this practice anywhere but we are quick to poke into other peoples cultures and practices and brand them as barbaric. |
"...Verily, in the remembrance of Allâh do hearts find rest..." Sura Al-Rad (Chapter 13, Verse 28)
...Gambian by birth, Muslim by the grace of Allah... |
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serenata
Germany
1400 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2007 : 16:32:52
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mansasulu, you seem to be obsessed with this labiaplasty.  Until you mentioned it I didn't know about the existence of this new variety of human stupidness. Anyway I agree that this is also a form of mutilation.
lurker, we had the FGM topic 100.000 times before, but yes, it is an interesting question WHY men do this to women. Let me try an explanation.
As we all know primitive instincts are alive and kicking in homo sapiens (we should not forget that these ugly, aggressive, mischievous but charming good-for-nothings, the chimpanzees, are our closest relatives! ). Look at all the men who mistreat, abuse, neglect, drive away and even kill their stepchildren. Not in the jungles of Brazil, Borneo or New Guinea, but in our 'civilized' Europe. "This is not my offspring, those children don't have my genome. And more: They are absorbing my partner's energy. So let's get rid of them and have my children with their mother" - this seems to be the primitive schema those men are (unconsciously) following; not much different from other male mammals who kill their predecessor's cubs.
Women are not much better: Today we know from psychological research that children in the care of their grandmothers are usually better cared for by the woman's than by the man's mother. Why? Well, the maternal grandmother can be almost 100% sure that her daughter's children are really her grandchildren, but regarding this the paternal grandmother always lives in a subconscious doubt. 'Mother's baby, father's maybe...'
It seems to be exceptionally important for us to be sure about our offspring. As far as I understand it FGM is nothing but a (brutal and equally primitive) measure to ensure that a man's children are really his. If the woman has no or little sexual feelings, she won't have affairs; simple as that. And more: Without any sexual experience, she will never be able to compare her husband's abilities and skills with other's... I am not very surprised that mostly men are interested to keep up the 'tradition' of FGM. |
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jambo
3300 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2007 : 20:02:15
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please may i ask a question, those that are for FGM what would you do if the women refused to allow , would you point to a book and say it has to be done, what arguments would you give for making a case for it to stay.
MANSASULA THE operation you mention is done by choice, and costs a fortune is done for fashion/sill reasons/vanity.
FGM is done because of tradition/culture. the recipents of FGM have the decision made for them by other people.
i await your answers.  |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2007 : 21:15:44
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In my experience in Gambia the women want FGM for their children, it is culturally expected. It isnt men that do it to girls but the older women in the community.
Women need empowerment to stand up to cultural pressures and say no.
Women need education to fully understand the facts and understand that there are socities where this is not acceptable.
I have still not heard ONE good reason for it from the womens point of view. |
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mansasulu
997 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2007 : 21:26:34
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quote:
Originally posted by jambo
please may i ask a question, those that are for FGM what would you do if the women refused to allow, would you point to a book and say it has to be done, what arguments would you give for making a case for it to stay.
MANSASULA THE operation you mention is done by choice, and costs a fortune is done for fashion/sill reasons/vanity.
FGM is done because of tradition/culture. the recipents of FGM have the decision made for them by other people.
i await your answers.
Jambo, may I remind you that male children have decisions made for them whether to be circumcised or not as well. If we can circumcise our boys without seeking their consent what prevents us from circumcising the girls without their consent.
Regarding Vaginoplasty, I agree it done for vanity but the hypocrites don't condemn it as form of FGM and call for it to be banned as well. I find it very troubling that we condemn the "mutilation" of little girls but condone mutilation of adult women.
As gambiabev rightly mentioned, women are at the forefront of this sacred practice, so playing the male chauvinism card isn't gonna fly here. If Vaginoplasty is good for good for women in the west, circumcision is good for our girls. |
"...Verily, in the remembrance of Allâh do hearts find rest..." Sura Al-Rad (Chapter 13, Verse 28)
...Gambian by birth, Muslim by the grace of Allah... |
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anna
Netherlands
730 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2007 : 00:05:13
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But Mansasula, vaginoplasty (is that really the correct word?) is NOT good for women in the west - it is only some weird concept of 'having the perfect body' that makes women undergo these kinds of silly operations. And YES, it is also a form of mutilation and i think doctors should refuse to cooperate.
In that respect vaginoplasty and (cultural) female circumcision (which is also mutilation) are in the same category: in both cases women are undergoing this 'treatment' in order to be 'the perfect woman'. Western women want this unbelievable vaginoplasty in order to meet the idea of 'the perfect female body', so that they will be loved and admired more. The women you call 'our girls' undergo circumcision/FGM also with the idea in their heads that in this way they will be regarded as 'good women', so that they will be loved and admired more. Only (sad) difference is that western women decide to have this 'operation' when they are at an age when they are supposed to choose for themselves and 'your girls' have it done to them at an early age where mostly they are not in a position to protest.
And please, do not make it sound as if 'women all over and particularly in the west' are queuing up for this kind of plastic surgery. It's only a small amount of very insecure and silly women who would do this kind of thing. |
When an old African dies, it is as if a whole library has burnt down.
Amadou Hampate Ba (Mali) |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2007 : 07:40:48
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| Anna exactly..it is only a very small minority of women....so small it has no significance.....where as the majority have FGM dont to them....but not in all tribes in Gambia and not in all African countries...... |
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mansasulu
997 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2007 : 19:31:14
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| Anna, my point is that you hardly hear the media talk about Vaginoplasty, but they will go around trumpetting Female Circumcision and what not in Africa. There is a saying that if your house is on fire, you put it out first instead of worrying about someone else house buring down. |
"...Verily, in the remembrance of Allâh do hearts find rest..." Sura Al-Rad (Chapter 13, Verse 28)
...Gambian by birth, Muslim by the grace of Allah... |
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