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jambo
3300 Posts |
 Posted - 26 Jun 2007 : 17:00:29
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Not yet, I have been asked to help, but for religious reason would not do it. If I married someone then I could stay and face the consular and be honest but to bring over one of the families I help or one of the guides I know. I have only met them in Gambia for short periods of time and at the end of the day i am responsible for someones soul. that is how I see it. i am looking at ways of helping them stay in Gambia, being in the UK or europe is not always the answer.
I refused to help last year and one of the people who asked wanted to get to Spain and paid money to "aperson who could help them get to Italy", what happened they did not go, but their friend did, last news he was dead.
The system could do with an overhaul, but each country is an individual and should be allowed to refuse or accpet who they want. i do not always approve of their methods. |
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anna
Netherlands
730 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2007 : 18:35:38
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Electric: no need to lie, just polish up the truth (with nice romantic pictures etc.)
Jambo: you're right: saying that you want 'your friend' to come over is no good, you will have to give away some of your privacy and state how important this 'friend' is.
We are not married, by the way - and still getting the necessary visa was never a problem.
Did you know that the embassy (at least the Dutch embassy) also has the interest of the Gambian invitee at heart? At the time the lady told me that 'i had no idea how many (Dutch) people invited someone, whom they met only once or twice, to come over for a holiday. Then, when the Gambian person was at his/her holiday address, it turned out that the friendship was really based on nothing and everybody drove each other crazy and the Gambian was thrown out - to disappear in the 'illegality'. Some invitors just have no clue of what the 'letter of guarantee' means. If something happens to the person you invite, or this person would cause an accident - you could be ruined (financially). If ever you would invite someone for a holiday, see to it that you have arranged all the necessary medical insurance etc.
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When an old African dies, it is as if a whole library has burnt down.
Amadou Hampate Ba (Mali) |
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jambo
3300 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2007 : 10:51:34
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Anna, thank you for your words, i have met many people who have done this and I wonder what they based their invitation on. Every person i have met in Gambia who I would have considered inviting over I can honestly say I do not "know them" but only "know them for a total of 10 weeks" if you get the difference, the relationship is bsed on my time in Gambia and how much time I have spent with them. Why would i risk everything for this.
take note of this
1 spiritual what am I bringing over, a geniune person , a dishonest person,
2 if I bring over someone, what guarantees do I have they will not disappear, there is no commitment from them to me.
3 if the person falls ill over here, who is responsible, me.
4 they will stay in my house, what ,
the variables are against me sponsoring anyone.
BIG NOTE HERE FOLKS, if I sponsor someone and they are refused, what happens when I meet someone else and want to sponsor them, my details are on file does this count against me
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Sibo
Denmark
231 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2007 : 11:09:11
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I think we are talking about how unfair it is for hthe embassies nonrefundable visa fees?????
I understand how difficult it is to be responsible for anther person especially here in Europe where everything is so expensive. And as you said Jambo, Europe is nt the solution for everybody. But what about the ones who have their husbands or wives here and want to come stay with them???
I remember that my aunty gat rejected 4 times at the american embassy cauce they didnīīt believe that she and my uncle were married. She had the marriage certificate and all. It took her tree years before she got a visa to go stay with her husband. Can someone tell me how that is justified, how that is fair to my aunt and uncle??????? |
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jambo
3300 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2007 : 11:25:44
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| Sibo, if they were married in a recognised place and have pictures and letters to prove their relationsip married couple should not have problems. but if you read back on the postings someone mentioned that the USA deal different with married couples. |
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MADIBA
United Kingdom
1275 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2007 : 12:16:47
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quote:
Originally posted by jambo
Sibo, if they were married in a recognised place and have pictures and letters to prove their relationsip married couple should not have problems. but if you read back on the postings someone mentioned that the USA deal different with married couples.
Jambo am afraid that's not the case either. As Muslims what place is more recognised than a Mosque, which is later recorded at a Cadi court? I have seen a case where an appeal was made and this time round the lady took even pictures and video cassette, yet this robber consular won't budge. So only the American consular knows which couple to grant and who not to. Its now looks like a lottery. |
madiss |
Edited by - MADIBA on 27 Jun 2007 12:17:42 |
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jambo
3300 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2007 : 12:50:07
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Madiba, as a muslim and please correct me if i am wrong in the UK you get married in register office first legal purposes and a requirement. and then you have the muslim side of the ceremony. I thought the US was the same, the muslims I know that have married in gambia have always married in a register office in Banjul and then had the religiious ceremony. So they fulfilled both criteria.
I did not think the Cadi court was recognised by the US. That is the feedback I got from american in gambia. Are they in Gambia, if one is in US they should appeal to local politicians make it a case. did the consulate put this in writing the reason they have refused the visa, who is being refused the groom or the bride, tel them to break it down. |
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Sibo
Denmark
231 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2007 : 14:34:48
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At the time my aunty snd uncle got married, my uncle was already in US. But my auty took pictures and letters that my uncle has been sending her. She even took pitcures of them together before my uncle went to US to prove that they were together from back then.
About getting married at the proper place, in Gambia as far as I know every muslim gets married at the mosque. As a muslim I donīīt see a more appropriate place than at the mosque |
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jambo
3300 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2007 : 16:18:47
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| Madiba, that bit i understand, but is a mosque wedding abroad recognised by US, that is what i am querying, if the answer is Yes, then they should appeal |
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MADIBA
United Kingdom
1275 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2007 : 17:44:54
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| I dnt know. BUt as a country's envoy to another country i think amongst the first things to do is to know the culture of the host country. I am informed that the consular do attimes make calls to the Justice ministry , Church, and Cadi courts to confirm the authenticity of the marraige certificate.Some twenty yrs ago it was not as bad as it is today. If am to make a plea, i would say to these embassies/consulates to refund the fees in the case of unsuccessful applications atleast that would minimize the pain. Inaddition to that why dnt they conduct sensitization programs on national media in all major Gambian languages. Referring people to wesites dnt help much, becos most of the applicants are not very fluent in English. |
madiss |
Edited by - MADIBA on 27 Jun 2007 18:09:14 |
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jambo
3300 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2007 : 18:03:41
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madiba, you hit the nail onthe head on some points, 20 years ago, it was easier, because people were not struggling. My main point is this if you want to bring someone here, then you should do the homework. Putting things in other languages would help, but a visit to the consular/embassy would provide the necessary information.
REFUND THE FEES, that would help, i would be broke if i paid for fees and the money was not refunded. |
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anna
Netherlands
730 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2007 : 18:33:48
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Guys, i think if the marriage has 'only' taken place at a mosque and there has been no 'legal' marriage (i.e. a marriage vow before a representative of any local authority with the husband and wife signing a marriage contract), the marriage is not recognised in any western country. It's just a ceremony but legally you're not 'husband and wife'.
It has nothing to do with the fact that the wedding took place in a mosque - in Holland it is not enough to have a wedding ceremony in a (Christian) church, you will also have to appear before the civil servant representing the 'Dutch law' and sign the contract. As a couple you will then receive a 'trouwboekje' = certificate of marriage.
Jambo, YES - if you invite someone and the visa is approved because you handed in a 'letter of guarantee', all responsibilities are yours. If the invitee falls ill - the costs are yours (that's why i mentioned the medical insurance - the invitee would not even be able to enter Holland without proof that this insurance had been taken out), if he/she causes an accident etc. Upon entering the country, the invitee would have to state his/her address of residence (your address) etc.
Indeed, it takes a lot of homework and a lot of thinking over. That is why it is perfectly useless to invite 'just a friend' over in my opinion. Also, but that is another thing to think about: why invite someone over and show him/her all the conveniences of the western world and then send this person back after 2 or 3 weeks to 'almost nothing'. Who is benefiting from this?? That is why i personally think inviting someone from the Gambia over for a 'holiday' is a useless, and almost heartless thing to do. |
When an old African dies, it is as if a whole library has burnt down.
Amadou Hampate Ba (Mali) |
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jambo
3300 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2007 : 18:38:32
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| thank you anna for this posting, it has confirm what i thought, spiritually you shoued not invite anyone over that you do not know, it becomes your reponsiblity, not just legal but spiritually. |
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anna
Netherlands
730 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2007 : 18:47:13
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Definitely, that is why it is a shame that some people take it lightly: it could affect the lives of the invitee and the invitor very adversely. What for??
For not refunding: in my experience the embassies have to do the work anyway - go into the papers, see if they are valid and complete. The Dutch embassy never rejects applications just like that.
This is life: you take a risk and make the application. If rejected, you lose the money. For a tourist visa this is not too bad (about 40 euros). For a permit of residence it is much worse, it cost me 840 euros! |
When an old African dies, it is as if a whole library has burnt down.
Amadou Hampate Ba (Mali) |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2007 : 19:57:34
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The wedding at the mosque is not considered a legal wedding. You need to go to Banjul for that. Ironically many weddings in Banjul may be 'legal' but fraudulent!
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