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Cornelius
Sweden
1051 Posts |
 Posted - 01 Dec 2006 : 11:30:51
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Because of what others like Kobo and Santanfara have said about ”religious propaganda” and “being flooded confusingly and un-necessarily”etc, let me modify the introduction to what I have to say about the ABSOLUTE relevance of Marcus Garvey today. First of all I am not confused and of course I hope that all who have not gone astray or been misled will arrive quite happily at their destination of paradise.
By way of introduction to what I’m going to say, ever so briefly, I may not be as unattached or unanchored as friend Denys Blell or as Creole as my late roommate Akintola Wyse who I gave the name CROMWELL, but let me state unequivocally that I am no racist.
My stepfather, the man who took me back to Sierra Leone on M.V..- Apapa (a ten day journey by sea) this man who was a good father to me till he passed away in 1981, a few weeks after my own biological father also passed away, was a Scot, born in Johannesburg, South Africa, brought up in Glasgow (decorated as a war hero by King George) and so loved throughout Sierra Leone, from Kabala to Sefadu, from Pujehun to the villages around Lumley Beach where we used to have our Sunday picnics. In Port Loko he was given the name “Johnson-Kamara – others called him Kamara –Johnson” ( there songs about him in the Themne language) and his relationship to black people was the opposite of what happened in South Africa and one of the first books that he gave me to read was Alan Paton’s “ Cry Beloved Country” I suspect that he, like some of the elite of the Southern States in the USA, must have had a black nanny, when he was a toddler in Jo’burg.
For the following Palestinians among many others that I do not now mention, I have nothing but the greatest respect and affection: even though our political views may be different – for the Almighty created the world for SHALOM): Fahd Ahmed, Mahmud Adebe, and Mustapha Gibril Yamani. For Egyptians Adel Hamza, Ashraf El-Khabiry, Dr. Mohamed El-Sayed (among many other Egyptians here, in Egypt and some now asleep in the dust.
When it comes to Iranians and Iraqis, they are too numerous to mention and although I do not want to be guilty of the crime of omission, I must mention in the order in which I did bayaat, Dr Javad Nurbaksh, Hazrat Agha Sultan Husayn Tabandeh Reza Ali Shah who accorded me the privilege of tying his shoe laces when he visited me at home in Stockholm – and who I got to understand much better on Ashura day of 1989… also Maboob Ali Shah, and Marja e- Taqleed Imam Khomeini( r.a) Ayatollah Khoei, and Ali Sistani, and all the good people of Ahl ul Bayt and the honourable Sahaba, my great Sheikh of Alexandria, Egypt ( a secret) and let me include all the rightly guided of all time, since the beginning of time till the end of time…
Today it is widely believed in Jamaica and in most of the Africa Diaspora West, that the Arabs started the slave trade in Africa. In “The Destruction of African Civilisation” by Chancellor Williams, says that black people arrived in America, the same way that they arrived in Saudi Arabia: through slavery… and may I add that in the same way some African people arrived in BASRA, where there was a slave revolt a few hundred years ago….
As the Bible history goes the brothers of Joseph sold Joseph to some Arab slave traders and we must understand that was an ancient capitalist commercial enterprise in both pre- and post Islamic times.
I would just like to add that His Majesty the Emperor of Ethiopia – the only country in Africa (along with Liberia?) that was never enslaved) is a central gestalt among certain brethren of the Rastafari. And that Rastafarianism is an alternative to Islam.
There is aj oke about Sellasie 1 seeking aid from Saudi Arabia and the condition being that they should build a few mosques in Addis, he replied that if he could also build a few churches in Mecca, then it would be OK....
I intend to write a definitive essay on “MARCUS GARVEY TODAY2 for my bog “OUR CHALLENGE”
It will be copyrighted, and anyone who’s interested should be able to read it there, as it will be in simple straightforward English. Amin
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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2006 : 22:57:14
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| i don't see any sense in all what you wrote brother. subliminal message.islam catagorically advice against slavery.it is a noble duty upon a muslim to free a slave. most sins are said to be expired by freeing a slave. slavery is capitalistic and inhuman.period.the old tastement have absolute verses allowing the isralalite to have slaves.the rastafirians are follwers of the old tastament.this is were most of there songs and quotes come from. they need to revisit the origin of trans-atlantic slave trade. i have a whole book about it. the catholic churche use to bless slave ships sailing into africa. some muslims use to practice it ,that is true.this people were capitalist not doing it because islam allow it. |
Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
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Cornelius
Sweden
1051 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2006 : 23:55:43
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I don't complain because you don't see any sense in what I wrote. I hope that you can distinguish sense from nonesense. Then you would be on the right path.
You "have a whole book about it". Cheers!
It might also please you to know that I'm done with the Bantaba Forum.
I wish all of you the best of luck..... |
Edited by - Cornelius on 03 Dec 2006 23:58:07 |
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Cornelius
Sweden
1051 Posts |
Posted - 04 Dec 2006 : 07:48:17
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I did not say that MUSLIMS were slave traders or Slavers. I wrote "Today it is widely believed in Jamaica and in most of the Africa Diaspora West, that the Arabs started the slave trade in Africa." Among Arabs are also Christians e.g. Tariq Azziz, Hannah Ashrawi, and in those dark days of Jahiliya - although Muslims say that the prophet Moses was a Muslim, perhaps most Arab people/ Ishmaelites were not.
If you want to talk religion why don't you move to the religion section.
About the slave trade, I also know a little bit you know.....as I also know a little bit about Islam and Middle East pre-and post Islamic history, which is still going on. Time has not stopped. The History of Israel's mission in the world continues.
When the brothers of Joseph sold Joseph to some Arab slave traders for some 20 pieces of silver, the Prophet of Islam salallahu alaihi wa salaam had not arrived. That was long before 570 C.E.
Your sense and my own sense of respect for Islam does not give me any cause to take my gloves off on this or any Islamic issue....so don't feel insecure. I can face the combined force of all the Muslims who wrote that letter to the Pope - the letter that I posted. Truth is different from fiction, just as the angel Gabriel is different from the Almighty ( sorry Archangel Gabriel)
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Edited by - Cornelius on 04 Dec 2006 07:56:46 |
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Cornelius
Sweden
1051 Posts |
Posted - 04 Dec 2006 : 11:57:11
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Santanfaran,
In my relationship to you, I can only be personal,friendly and social and show you respect – if you also show me respect. You should not expect me to show you respect , if you do not respect me – even if I appear to be less stupid or more morally and mentally handicapped than I really am. Bigoted I am not and I do have foundations that are not shattered by mere earthquakes…. Although bombs do shatter lives……just look at that weakened draft resolution against Iran which doesn’t seem to give any space to sanctions. Imagine if Ehud Olmert or Binyamin Netanyahu had said that he was going to “Wipe out” Iran? I think that you too would be frothing at the mouth……
http://ws.giyus.org/points/point?id=427
The UN should reconsider!
NB Joseph's brothers sell him to Arab slavers in Genesis 37:25
:http://www.nccbuscc.org/nab/bible/genesis/genesis37.htm
http://www.keyway.ca/htm2000/20000807.htm
http://www.google.co.uk/search?sourceid=navclient-menuext&ie=UTF-8&q=Shechem
http://www.google.co.uk/search?sourceid=navclient-menuext&ie=UTF-8&q=Ishmaelites
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/search_results.jsp?searchType=1&pageNum=1&search=Joseph+sold+into+slavery&searchOpt=0&x=20&y=6
Santanfaran, in Islam (the last religion) is/was slavery HARAM -like Zina, alcohol, riba?
The Hebrew Faith does not say that Muslims or Christians, or Buddhists, or Hindus Sikhs, Shinto, Chineke or Olodumare people, Jains, etc etc etc have to convert to Judaism or they will go to hell (wherever you believe that to be) - it suffices that all Gentiles adhere to the Laws of Noah – the Noahide code – that’s also sort of universal:
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&rls=GGLJ%2CGGLJ%3A2006-46%2CGGLJ%3Aen-GB&q=the+Noahide+code&btnG=Search&meta=
A footnote about the previously mentioned Akintola Wyse, who I gave the nickname “Cromwell” – when we were about 15 years old – we were classmates throughout Secondary school and roommates during our first year at University. Apart from being a Methodist ( by religion) he was truly an honest and principled person throughout our friendship and we usually discussed history on our way home, he to Mends Street and I , to Westmoreland Street opposite the Sierra Leone Museum, besides the Cotton Tree, with the American Embassy and USIS reading room and Roxy Cinema behind me.
Cromwell and the Jews
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&rls=GGLJ%2CGGLJ%3A2006-46%2CGGLJ%3Aen-GB&q=CROMWELL+and+the+Jews&meta=
Particularly for you Santa:
Islam and Slavery:
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&rls=GGLJ%2CGGLJ%3A2006-46%2CGGLJ%3Aen-GB&q=Islam+and+Slavery&btnG=Search&meta=
If you feel strong enough ( even as Allah’s weakest slave) to take me on about this my last paragraph, even with a little help from your friends, then I suggest that you just give me the word and we’ll begin a real discussion in the WORLD RELIGION SECTION – even if you believe that all that I am apt to say is just a bunch of baloney or utter nonsense – because it doesn’t make sense to you.
My last paragraph, written in great haste, before I left home this morning, read:
“Your sense and my own sense of respect for Islam does not give me any cause to take my gloves off on this or any Islamic issue....so don't feel insecure. I can face the combined force of all the Muslims who wrote that letter to the Pope - the letter that I posted. Truth is different from fiction, just as the angel Gabriel is different from the Almighty ( sorry Archangel Gabriel)”
There’s nothing that I would like to modify in that statement. But I’d just like to add very briefly so that you keep it firmly in your mind and not forget, in your future dealings with me, that I do not say that what YOU say does not make sense – or that Islam does not stand on its own logically self-consistent independent foundations, which CANNOT be binding on the nation of Israel and I daresay but for a Jew, I do say that with all your good sense or even common horse sense, you should recognise and accept and respect this difference:
1. This song, Ani Maamin, in which we sing ( in translation)
“ He granted His flow of prophecy
To His treasured splendorous people.
In Israel none like Moses arose again –
A prophet who perceived His vision clearly.
God gave His people a Torah of truth,
by means of His prophet, the most trusted of His household.
God will never amend nor exchange His law
For all eternity, for any other one.”
And about that my Siddur notes read:
- His flow of prophecy: God revealed His will to Israel through His prophets.
- -Like Moses : Moses' prophecy is peerless, otherwise another ”prophet” could conceivably challenge or amend it, thus challenging the authenticity of the Torah.
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&rls=GGLJ%2CGGLJ%3A2006-46%2CGGLJ%3Aen-GB&q=Ani+Maamin&meta=
A translation of the Blessing before the Haphtarah reads:
“ Blessed are you, Hashem
Our God, King of the Universe,
Who has chosen good prophets
And took pleasure with their words that were uttered with truth.
Blessed are You Hashem,
Who chooses the Torah; Moses, His servant;
Israel His people;
And the prophets of Truth and righteousness.”
( Congregation responds :Amayn)
Siddur notes on “Good prophets” :
“The theme of the Haphtarah blessings is the integrity of the prophets and their teachings. Even when it is their mission to criticize and threaten, they are good to the Jewish people. Also, they are chosen because the are good people: learned, righteous, impressive, etc. Our tradition does not accept prophets who are lacking in any of the attributes of Jewish greatness.”
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Edited by - Cornelius on 04 Dec 2006 13:17:27 |
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Cornelius
Sweden
1051 Posts |
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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2006 : 15:57:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Cornelius
Got hit by this headline:
http//www.gatt.org/wharton.html
WHAT IS A JEWISH GREATNESS? I WILL ANSWER YOU IN DETAIL IN THE RELIGION SECTION. NOW I HAVE TO GO. I AM SITTING MY EXAMS ON JOINING THE CHARTERED INSTITUTE OF AUDITORS. BUT REMEMBER I HAVE NOT SAID ANY THING AGAINST THE JEWS PEOPLE. THE JEWISH FAITHIS IS DIFFERENT FROM THE PEOPLE FROM ISRALE. NOT ALL RESIDENCE IN ISRALIE ARE JEWISH AND NOT ALL JEWS PEOPLE BELIEVE IN JUDAISM. YOU ARE A FIRM BELIEVER WHICH IS FINE BUT DO NOT TRY TO POLITISE CURRENT RELIGIOUS TREND. IF YOU ASSOCIATE ISLAM WITH OTHER ISSUES ,LIKE WISE I CAN ASSOCIATE JUDAISM WITH THE CONCEPT OF ZIONISM. IN APPARTIHIED SOUTH AFRICA THE POWERFUL PEOPLE THERE WERE JEWS AND STILL ARE. WHY DIDN'T THEY STOP APPARTIED ? IN PALESTINE TODAY ONE JEWS LIFE IS WORTH ONE HUNDRED PALESTINIAN .IS THAT A JEWISH QUALITY ? I AM NOT INSECURE BROTHER ,I AM VERY SOUND. THE WORLD BANKING SYSTEM IS HIGHLY CONTROL AND INFLUENCE BY JEWS BUT THE TORAH SPEAK AGAINST INTEREST ,WHY ARE JEWISH BANKERS TAKING INTEREST ? IS THAT A JEWISH QUALITY AS WELL.
BROTHER JEWS ARE LIKE EVERY HUMAN BEING ,WHICH MEANS WE ARE NOT PERFECT.I AM NOT ANTI JEWS BEFORE YOU JUMP TO THE ANTI-SEMITISM CONCLUSION.THE STIGMA ATTACH TO THE BLACK RACE IS GIVEN CREDENCE IN THE TORAH ,THAT IS WHY WHITE SLAVE MASTER USE TO JUSTIFY SLAVERY.WHY WOULD JUDAISM REFFER TO HAM AS THE SON WHO LAUGH AT NOAH. THIS IS THE STATEMENT THE WORLD USE TO HATE BLACKS YET YOU PORTAY ANOTHER SIDE OF JUDAISM.WHO DID THE JEWS CALL GONYAM ? WHAT ARE WE NON- JEWS CALL ? WE CAN ARGUE ABOUT SUCH THINGS OVER AND OVER .THIS IS NOT NECESSARTY.WE AS HUMAN'S ALWAYS GIVE OUR SELF HIGH MORAL GROUND AND PERFECTION BUT HEY WE ARE FALLABLE AND WEAK. LOOK AT THE ACTUAL ACTIONS OF THE STATE OF ISRALIE NOT A SPEACH BY A LUNATIC MR AMEDINAJI. ACTIONS PROVE LOUDER THAN WORDS. WHO IS DISTROYING WHO IN THE CONFLICT IN PALESTINE ? WELL I AM LATE . |
Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
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mbay
Germany
1007 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2006 : 17:31:20
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San.don’s mind Corn.he always associating the meddle east(politics) problems on all Muslims.
Which i don’t understand, he seems actual intelligent but why he is going on this way i just cant get it.
Even he real knows how we be telling not to against a Jews religions or Christianity
but he is still plays his games though he knew is a dangerous. |
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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2006 : 20:27:50
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| MBYE.you are right i will not waste my time on needless arquement. one thing is a comfort to me is that we from senegambia know our islamic religion and heritage ,so no matter what any body says we are what we are. period. his game is a dangerous one but god is our ultimate protector. i am enjoying jolof rice bendagene with fish and carrot,potato,casava and spices. i am exusted today. |
Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
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LEMON TIME
Afghanistan
1295 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2006 : 23:29:00
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| what happened to freedom of speech guys,leave cornelius alone. |
There is no god but Allah |
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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2006 : 23:44:39
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quote:
Originally posted by LEMON TIME
what happened to freedom of speech guys,leave cornelius alone.
Brother you can be libral as much as you can but there are limits to which one need to draw the line. let him talk about his own faiths down side not only coded messages on islam.
by the way freedom of speach is not licence to cause dishamony.go out were ever you are and start saying certain thing and see if freedom of speach is say every thing. |
Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
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Cornelius
Sweden
1051 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2006 : 00:34:45
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| Shalom |
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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2006 : 01:29:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Cornelius
Shalom
ABARAKA |
Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
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Cornelius
Sweden
1051 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2006 : 09:02:34
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quote:
Originally posted by SANTANFARA
WHAT IS A JEWISH GREATNESS? I WILL ANSWER YOU IN DETAIL IN THE RELIGION SECTION. (Santanfara)
We are looking forward to you keeping your promise..... |
Edited by - Cornelius on 06 Dec 2006 09:04:09 |
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