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serenata
Germany
1400 Posts |
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Alhassan
Sweden
813 Posts |
 Posted - 30 Aug 2006 : 11:21:15
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quote:
Originally posted by serenata
Nothing but a big fake? 
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,433083,00.html
Sister,
I in person do not deny what these people have stated in the newspapers. Their teories could be true knowing the powerand capability of the US, Cia, Scotland Yard ect. I cannot just deny their comments. I am neither in Libanon nor in Irak or Saudi. I know what happens in Stockholn and Sweden with Muslims. There is a big misinterpretation of the Muslims in the US and Europe.
People are afraid of the number that converts to Islam. In Denmark some time ago, I heard that many Danish youths converted to Islam. |
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kayjatta
2978 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2006 : 19:13:08
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| Any level-thinking person cannot but deny outright what this people are talking about. It is simply far-fetched and without and iota of truth. It is motivated by ignorance and religious bigotry. Muslims ( I am one ) and the muslim world needs to separate religion from world politics.It will be helpful if they interpret history from a proper perspective rather that reducing this vast universe into muslims and infidels .They should desist from supporting and funding terrorism , even by spreading this kind of fabricated conspiracy theories taht have merit at all. |
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Cornelius
Sweden
1051 Posts |
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Santanfara
3460 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2006 : 02:48:02
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quote:
Originally posted by kayjatta
Any level-thinking person cannot but deny outright what this people are talking about. It is simply far-fetched and without and iota of truth. It is motivated by ignorance and religious bigotry. Muslims ( I am one ) and the muslim world needs to separate religion from world politics.It will be helpful if they interpret history from a proper perspective rather that reducing this vast universe into muslims and infidels .They should desist from supporting and funding terrorism , even by spreading this kind of fabricated conspiracy theories taht have merit at all.
KAY. i don't dispute your sincerity ,but remember this world as ever being about how best i can control your mind. the world is withnessing a change of strategy ,if the west can completely demonise the entire muslim world then who will protest when bombs are drop on muslim countries ? the west always claim that they seprate religion from politics but just look at the substance not the legal form. before every invasion they sake the approval of the church leaders for what ?they say moral grounds. what is moral grounds? religion friend. when a troop die in battle he/she is decorated with a cross. so ,the propadangist are using new methods to justify there actions.i do not buy into conspiracy theories but real plots are being made to justify military,ranpant arrest of muslim youths etc. any one can believe what he/she wish but the final decision is with the our maker. some thing most happen before any declaration of war . people don't just start bombing others. kay just think a little don't loose the right to free thinking .islam is a way of life not just a prayer mart. |
Surah- Ar-Rum 30-22
"And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colours. verily, in that are indeed signs for men of sound knowledge." Qu'ran
www.suntoumana.blogspot.com |
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Cornelius
Sweden
1051 Posts |
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serenata
Germany
1400 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2006 : 15:07:59
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| Meanwhile it seems hard to distinguish who's right and who's wrong. On the one hand we see the West, after 500 years of colonialism, occupy Muslim countries again, kidnap and torture alleged terrorists and fuel hysteria about Islam. On the other hand, when Western media state that militant Muslim suicide bombers in the US-Middle East (which is Africa's and Europe's NEAR EAST!) or in Europe/US follow a 'culture of death', I cannot but agree. But of course I, like all of us here (including those who desperately try to excuse all Western aggressions), never experienced what people in Palestine, Iraq or Afghanistan went through. |
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Cornelius
Sweden
1051 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2006 : 23:22:57
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Empathy is a good quality.
As someone pointed out on the BBC a few minutes ago, Israel is not the cause of the Sunni and Shia fighting each other in Iraq ………
I am just back home from a lecture given by Professor Zachary Lockman ( a real professor) who is chairman of the Institute of Middle Eastern Studies at New York University. He spoke for about 90 minutes.
http://www.google.co.uk/search?rls=GGLJ%2CGGLJ%3A2006-46%2CGGLJ%3Aen-GB&hl=en&q=Zachary+Lockman&btnG=Google+Search&meta=
The subject of his lecture: “Is USA’s Middle East Policy changing?”
At more than one point in the lecture and during the question session, he pointed out that he was more of a historian than anything else.
The lecture was both enlightening and demystifying and will appear at the Olof Palme center website within the next two weeks, i.e.
http://www.palmecenter.org/
A skeleton outline from my notes ( I have to prepare my Sabbath meal tonight):
I was five minutes late and took my seat as he was saying that the USA has given $140 billion to Israel, that some have perceived US and Israel's interests as being identical, but the BIG QUESTION is whether or not ISRAEL is/ has become a strategic liability.
There was some demystification of others' cherished and paranoid conspiracy theories: He identified a section of neo-con Likudist lobbyists whose wont was to prevail on the powers that be to see Iraq as a threat to Israel. Talked about “the realist camp in International relations" and here’s the question to answer: WHAT is the nationalist interest of the US? ( any idea Serenata?) The proposed alternative ranks shallow…..
The Israel-US relationship goes back to 1948,but in the early 60s Israel’s chief support( strategically) was France which was combating Algeria and Arab nationalism ( so there was a coincidence of interests….. till 67 … well you know what happened in 67, and there was “the Nixon Doctrine" with the US’ chief partners being Iran and Saudi Arabia providing a bulwark against communism, and the third partner of (the trinity was Israel; can’t use the term troika for the anti–commies - even the Iranian Revolution decimated the Tudeh party. But he didn’t say that.)History moved on to the 1973 war
( intelligence co-operation with US etc) and the relationship strengthened under Reagan.
Here’s a telling quote of Nixon, who when thanked profusely by an Israel- supporter remarked “ Israel is cheaper than the 6th Fleet stationed in the Mediterranean”
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&rls=GGLJ%2CGGLJ%3A2006-46%2CGGLJ%3Aen-GB&q=the+6th+Fleet+in+the+Mediterranean&btnG=Search&meta=
Netanyahu’s “Jonathan Institute”
http://www.namebase.org/main2/Jonathan-Institute.html
That key neo-con US policy makers supported Netanyahu, as did Christian Zionism – and the object of their displeasure was “Radical Sunni Islam.” That once Iraq oil was secured, then there could be less dependence on Saudi oil and the Israel-Palestine solution could be on Israel’s terms.
Can Israel be blamed for US’s mistakes?
US Democrats linked with Israel’s Labour Party during the Clinton period. Whereas Bush has embraced Israel’s Right wing which is as anti-Hamas as EU and US….
NB: THE NEXT PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION is in 2008! ( Will it matter whether Democrats or Republicans are in power?
Someone took up the question of the Evangelical right and in response Professor Lockman talked about theological elements around the Jesus 2nd coming sort of evolving into a political doctrine ( smile) and also that Robert Gates was deeply implicated in the Iran Contras affair etc etc.
Also observed that Palestinians have a weak and ineffective leadership, utterly lacking in strategy and with zero power resistance and that only the US has the clout to change anything in that area, that UN Resolution 242 talks less about the Palestinian national question and more about refugees….. At which point I was thinking about DORE GOLD:
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&rls=GGLJ%2CGGLJ%3A2006-46%2CGGLJ%3Aen-GB&q=DORE+GOLD%3A&btnG=Search&meta=
On UN Res 242
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&rls=GGLJ%2CGGLJ%3A2006-46%2CGGLJ%3Aen-GB&q=DORE+GOLD%3A&btnG=Search&meta=
Especially his Jerusalem Viewpoints:
The more we know the less there is a chance of conspiracy theories occupying our minds (like Palestinians occupying the West Bank - another conspiracy theory)
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&rls=GGLJ,GGLJ:2006-46,GGLJ:en-GB&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=Jerusalem+Viewpoints&spell=1
( Dear Bantaba, don’t forget that Israel is the world’s third mightiest military power )
The highpoint of the evening was the professor saying ( in reply to someone who was very concerned about Israel’s alleged flouting of international law: he said that “international law has not been interesting to Washington, for some time”
He also mentioned Sharon’s speech in Washington, Sharon saying “ We’ve been fighting Terrorism for 100 years”……Well, Bantabahs all know that Hezbollah is classified a terrorist organisation.
I also asked a question, but just now, I’m far too tired to tell you what the question and answer was, however, if Santanfara or al-Hassan is interested, perhaps I’ll oblige, after the Sabbath.
The last item on the agenda before the meeting came to an end was Israel’s reaction to the Baker Report
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&rls=GGLJ%2CGGLJ%3A2006-46%2CGGLJ%3Aen-GB&q=Israel%27s+reaction+to+the+Baker++Study+Group+Report&btnG=Search&meta=
(and you ALL know how anti-Israel Baker is don’t you ?
http://www.israpundit.com/2006/?p=3475#comments
FOREIGN AFFAIRS Roundtable talk:
http://www.foreignaffairs.org/special/baker_report_roundtable/
To cook up a conspiracy theory, you need a powerful enemy. This evening we were told that power makes some people stupid……true?
I’ll post the lecture as soon as it appears……so that you get what was really said from the horse’s mouth. Don’t trust other reports that are enough to make you really suspicious and get you reaching for your conspiracy theory Bible, handbook or manual.
PS :I bought my groceries at LIDL - a newly opened German Supermarket.....
Good night to you. |
Edited by - Cornelius on 08 Dec 2006 00:44:51 |
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serenata
Germany
1400 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2006 : 14:10:55
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It is a shame that Israel, which was built with a socialist vision, fell victim to the most reactionary forces. For me there's not much more to say about the topic 'Israel'.
So, now you have Lidl in Sweden? If available, try the delicious thin sliced poultry salami and the tasty and practical mazzes-style bread from Israel (a small rectangular packet). |
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Cornelius
Sweden
1051 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2006 : 23:09:03
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quote:
Originally posted by serenata
It is a shame that Israel, which was built with a socialist vision, fell victim to the most reactionary forces. For me there's not much more to say about the topic 'Israel'.
So, now you have Lidl in Sweden? If available, try the delicious thin sliced poultry salami and the tasty and practical mazzes-style bread from Israel (a small rectangular packet).
Israel forever!
Mostly corrected and a good night/morning to you:
Dear Serenata,
(Lets hope that our Admin can manage to get the page to display correctly, even with these very normal lengths of links. I'm unwilling to change them for even the price of a Bantaba passport or German citizenship. He has helped a lot but now the lettering is too small. Did I hear someone say that I should I stop whining? )
There is no reason why the admin should put the lid on or lock up a topic ( like with a chastity belt) these our kind of amicable and very educative discussions.
I got to Lidl on Thursday night, after the Prof Lockman lecture and toured the whole supermarket. The chocolate section is great, there are lots of Turkish meats, the fish ( always Kosher and halal ) section could be vastly improved, and I’ll be sampling Germania in the coming weeks and months and as long as I live in Swede ( as you know our Queen Silvia is of German origin and extremely popular.)
I’ll try the foods that you recommend – provided that they are KOSHER; as you are aware, there are lots of pork-eating Christians and many a Musulman in Israel. For Muslims, all Kosher food is halal whereas for Jews, halal is not Kosher: a one-eyed chicken is not kosher and – this week’s Torah portion explains why Jacob’s struggle with the angel until the break of dawn and the dislocation of Jacob’s hip-socket
(“ one of the cosmic events in Jewish history”) results in the prohibition of eating the tendon of an animal’s thigh. So, “ two primary tissues are forbidden in the hindquarter: The inner sinew – the sciatic nerve – which branches out from the rear of the spinal column and runs down the inner side of the animal’s leg, is forbidden by Torah law. The outer sinew – the common peroneal nerve – which runs across the thigh on the outer side of the animal’s leg, is forbidden by the sages. Every last trace of these nerves must be removed, and the fat covering the sciatic nerves must be removed as well.
Additionally, the six nerves which look like strings and certain other veins are removed. The pertinent halachos regarding this prohibition are found in SHULCHAN ARUCH yoreh De’ah, section 65.”
So your family eats kosher…..?
It’s healthy and not dedicated to any other God but that of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob!
A long Smile from Corneliyus…….
I must now attend to your apparent disappointment and dejection over Israel. You say:
“It is a shame that Israel, which was built with a socialist vision, fell victim to the most reactionary forces. For me there's not much more to say about the topic 'Israel'.” ( Serenata)
Not much more to say….indeed. Looka here:
“The Jews of Germany played an important role in the growth of immigration from 1932 to 1935, bringing with them knowledge and skills, initiative and capital. Some of them settled on the land and established moshavim. Those with capital invested in citrus, and 5000 acres of new plantations were added in the years 1932-34. Sixteen agricultural settlements were founded in 1932, 28 in 1933, 12 in 1934, and 15 in 1935. The established Kibbutzim absorbed a considerable number of new members….” ( From Part Six of “The Jews in Their Land “ – a chapter entitled “From the Founding of Petah-Tikva to the present Day” written by David Ben-Gurion.
Ah! Those pioneer days of the Kibbutzim (what spirit!) those “large cooperative settlements run along socialist lines, in which all work, property, amenities etc were shared equally and all profits plowed back into the community, with an economy based primarily on agriculture, in which children are cared for and educated on a strictly communal basis” - perhaps you too were there? I have met countless non-Jewish men and women who were, or have been contributing their widow’s mite and all their might, to those ideals. David Ben-Gurion writes ( of Israel somewhere along the way)
“This was pioneering immigration by Jewish youths, who regarded labour as the principal agent of rebuilding their homeland, and who threw themselves, heart and soul, into working in the land itself. Their aim was to create a new life in Israel for the Jewish people: a free workers’ society, with everyone equal in rights;
a nation with neither exploiter nor exploited………..
As the great thinker of the Hovevei Zion movement Asher Ginsburg ( known by his pseudonym Ahad Ha’am which means “one of the people” ) wrote: “ They came to the Land of Israel in the flower of their youth, for the sake of a sublime ideal, and dreamed of a happy future; liberty and honour ; honest, holy work; national resurgence.” But their idealism did not last long, as he wrote in 1912: “ For 20 years a never-ending flood of gold has descended from above and washed everything away: love of labour and the ability to work, national idealism and a sense of human self-respect – leaving nothing behind, but bitter hearts and dejected spirits.” But that was not the end of the story…….
Well, well well. I’ve got plenty to say, but not enough space. As we are still in public cyberspace this is to you and through you to all Bantaba readers who might be reading beyond here.
I will begin with a mantra that you will agree with:
Israel is the only democracy in The Middle East!
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&rls=GGLJ%2CGGLJ%3A2006-46%2CGGLJ%3Aen-GB&q=+Israel+is+the+only+democracy+in+The+Middle+East%21&btnG=Search&meta
And secondly I will say that ISRAEL HAS NOT KNOWN A SINGLE DAY OF PEACE SINCE THE REBIRTH OF THE NATION ON INDEPENDENCE DAY on 14 May 1948.
The Arab-Israel wars:
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&rls=GGLJ%2CGGLJ%3A2006-46%2CGGLJ%3Aen-GB&q=The+ARab-Israel+wars&btnG=Search&meta=
Today Israel is officially at peace with Jordan ( which has 70% of their population as people who are or call themselves Palestinians – indeed some consider Jordan as THE PALESTINIAN STATE which they already have.) Israel is also officially at peace with Egypt, from which place weapons have been pouring in to Gaza, through the Rafah Crossing and other tunnels)
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&rls=GGLJ%2CGGLJ%3A2006-46%2CGGLJ%3Aen-GB&q=+ISRAEL+HAS+NOT+KNOWN+A+SINGLE+DAY+OF+PEACE+SINCE+THE+REBIRTH+OF+THE+NATION+ON+INDEPENDENCE+DAY+on+14+May+1948%2C+&btnG=Search&meta=
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_the_Establishment_of_the_State_of_Israel
Serenata, today we are talking about a post-Zionist state:
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&rls=GGLJ%2CGGLJ%3A2006-46%2CGGLJ%3Aen-GB&q=Israel%3A+the+post-Zionist+State&btnG=Search&meta=
Here’s David Ben-Gurion
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&rls=GGLJ%2CGGLJ%3A2006-46%2CGGLJ%3Aen-GB&q=David+Ben-Gurion&btnG=Search&meta=
and here’s Chaim Weizmann
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&rls=GGLJ%2CGGLJ%3A2006-46%2CGGLJ%3Aen-GB&q=Chaim+Weizmann&btnG=Search&meta=
and here’s one of my main mentors for some ten years, Dr. Michael Tunkel’s main man:
Vladimir Jabotinsky ( ” At the next Zionist Congress, Jabotinsky and Weizmann were the star performers. Jabotinsky was a polished orator, with eight or none languages on the tip of his tongue; an idol of a large segment of Jewish youth in Poland and Palestine; poet and scholar, a critic of painting and sculpture; but above all, a fighting Zionist. He had attracted the attention of Maxim Gorky and Leo Tolstoy.
Jabotinsky and Weizmann were a match for each other. On this occasion Jabotinsky delivered one of the most inflammatory addresses of his career as he advocated a Jewish state on both sides of the Jordan as large as the original Palestine state had been. When he finished, Weizmann arose and smiled, and said:
“The walls of Jericho fell to the sound of shouts and trumpets. I have never heard of walls being raised by that means.”…. Several days later Weizmann was defeated for the first time for the presidency of the Zionist Organization and went into retirement.” ( P.58 “ Ben-Gurion” By Robert St John.)
http://www.google.co.uk/search?rls=GGLJ%2CGGLJ%3A2006-46%2CGGLJ%3Aen-GB&hl=en&q=Vladimir+Jabotinsky&btnG=Google+Search&meta=
Very fortuitously it is in this week’s Torah portion VAYISHLACH that God blesses Jacob and gives him the blesséd name ISRAEL:
http://www.google.co.uk/search?rls=GGLJ%2CGGLJ%3A2006-46%2CGGLJ%3Aen-GB&hl=en&q=VAYISHLACH&btnG=Google+Search&meta=
The blessing is recorded in Genesis 35: 9 - 15
“ 9. And God appeared again to Jacob when he came from Padan aram, and He blessed him.
10. God said to him, "Your name is Jacob. Your name shall no longer be called Jacob, but Israel shall be your name." And He named him Israel.
11. And God said to him, "I am the Almighty God; be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a multitude of nations shall come into existence from you, and kings shall come forth from your loins.
12. And the land that I gave to Abraham and to Isaac, I will give to you and to your seed after you will I give the land."
13. And God went up from him in the place where He had spoken with him.
14. Now Jacob had erected a monument in the place where He had spoken with him, a stone monument, and he poured a libation upon it, and [then] he poured oil upon it.
15. Jacob named the place where God had spoken with him Beth el.”
To begin with I would like to disabuse you of any charges of naivety on my part about any matters concerning Israel.
When I encountered Islam in 1986 , within a few weeks I had read Roger Garaudy ‘s “The Case of Israel”
( Garaudy, the communist who actually embraced Islam) . I am familiar with much of that kind of literature and articles, and have met talked to and discussed and sometimes even corresponded with some of the proponents of such views.
Recently I read “The Short History of Israel” by Syed Iqbal Zaheer.
I have been studying Israel uninterruptedly, read a few dozen books, and attended numerous courses , lectures, received many teachings from some of the best teachers on these subjects and have been thinking, reading critically, as I was taught to read and to think.
I can see from your earlier postings that you have strong socialist sympathies/ tendencies. Good and only good. There is not anything hostile or unbecoming or unusual in what you say. I have heard some Israelis and other Jews and atheists express the same sentiments in my hearing. I could name names ( without dropping any) of even some that are near, close and dear to me.
However I have decided to approach the issue this way ( keeping Bantaba in view):
Sometime ago I had an edition of The Complete Works of William Blake, which was once the personal possession of Eric Blair ( George Orwell ) and which was given to me by my Australian in law ( who’s Jewish) but it has disappeared from view ……
I also have in my possession, my legal possession, two books which belong to me and which would make a world of difference if you could but read them.
First of all there is “BEN-GURION” by Robert St John.
My own copy is dedicated by the author himself, in his own handwriting to one Paul Meyenberg. He writes ( in a very elongated style)
“ To Paul Meyenberg
A friend of
A friend of mine
And therefore
A friend of mine.
SHALOM! Robert St. John 1966. “
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&rls=GGLJ%2CGGLJ%3A2006-46%2CGGLJ%3Aen-GB&q=%E2%80%9CBEN-GURION%E2%80%9D++by+Robert+St+John&btnG=Search&meta=
I very strongly urge you to read it. Payi particular attention to the state of affairs from Chapter Six onwards. ( Chapter six begins “ Arab murder and savagery had gone on for more than two years, and there was still no sign of the end.
Bands of armed guerrillas roamed the countryside killing Jews without reason or discrimination. Trains were derailed. Roads connecting Jewish colonies were planted with mines. Telephone wires were torn from their poles: The oil pipeline from Iraq was cut. Forests were set afire and crops destroyed. Fruit trees were ripped up by the roots. Travellers were ambushed and convoys attacked.. Everyone knows that the Palestinian Arabs were being supported with money and arms from adjoining Arab countries.” ( All this during WW2)
Page 85: “ Not all American Jews were Zionists, and not all who wanted a Jewish state approved of Ben-Gurion’s ideas, but most American Jews in 1942 were thinking with their hearts, and they were unified in wanting to help the victims of Hitler and war. This seemed one way of doing it. Ben-Gurion had not been home long, before the heads of state in Washington, London, and Moscow made a joint announcement:
“ from all occupied countries, Jews are being transported in conditions of appalling horror and brutality to Eastern Europe……none of those taken are ever heard of again…. They are worked to death…..left to die of exposure and starvation…mass executions …..bloody cruelties….hundreds of thousands…..innocent men, women and children….”
The other book in my proud possession is dedicated
“ To H.E
Mrs Inga Thorsson
Ambassador of Sweden – A friend in joy and
In sorrow
( signed) Zalman Aranns,
Jerusalem, may 31, 1966.”
Mrs. Inga Thorsson was a great Socialist and a great feminist.
The book is “ The Jews in Their Land” – conceived and edited by David Ben- Gurion. “ it’s beautifully illustrated with many photographs. It’s a beautiful nook.
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&rls=GGLJ%2CGGLJ%3A2006-46%2CGGLJ%3Aen-GB&q=%E2%80%9C+The+Jews+in+Their+Land+%22+David+Ben-Gurion&btnG=Search&meta=
After you have read this book cover to cover we can then begin to understand each other and know each other better ( if possible)
Now let me gladden your heart a little with my first little quote from St. John’s book:
Page 51:
“When Paula came to London with Geula, Ben- Gurion rented a modest flat for them in Maida Vale, only a few minutes by underground from the heart of the city. There Amos was born.
When Ben-Gurion had originally chosen this as his favourite name for his son, Paula had asked:
“Why Amos?”
Ben-Gurion, in a voice that even then sounded like that of a prophet to Paula, told her the story of the Biblical Amos, the herdsman who conceived the idea of God not merely for Israel but for all mankind; Amos, who warned of the dreadful punishment awaiting those who oppressed the poor and crushed the needy.
“He sounds like a socialist”, Paula said.
Ben-Gurion smiled.
“Even more important than being a socialist, Amos had held out hope for a return of the people of Israel to their own land. He predicted an era of peace and prosperity for the wandering Jews, who would wander no more.”
Page 320 of “The Jews in Their Land”:
“ Speaking as the chairman of the Zionist executive, Ben-Gurion declared on behalf of the Yishuv at a meeting of the Elected Assembly on November 28th 1945:
“We the Jews of the Land of Israel, do not want to be killed; we want to live. But I must tell Mr. Bevin And his friends that we are ready to die rather than give up three things:
1. Freedom for Jewish immigration
2. Our Right to rebuild the waste places of our homeland;
3. The political independence of our people in their Land.”
Page 332:
“On the afternoon of Friday May 14, 1948, shortly before 4 P.M., the leaders of Jewry in the Land, assembled for the official declaration of the state in Tel-Aviv
Museum, since Jerusalem was under siege and there was no possibility of getting there that day. The fact that the state was to be declared at this time was not publicized , for fear that the heads of the British Administration (scheduled to leave the country at midnight that night) would make some last-minute trouble……… News of the event spread among the public despite the attempt at secrecy, and thousands poured into the streets, especially near the museum, carrying flags of blue and white, which had been chosen as the colours of the state , soon to be born”.
Today, please remember and bear in mind that there are ONE MILLION Israeli Arabs, ( with Israel passports , who enjoy freedom as Israeli citizens and have their elected members of Knesset ( which is Israel’s Parliament.)
Page 346, reads:( in February 1949) :
“ The principles of Government submitted to the Knesset contained 10 chapters:
1. Collective cabinet responsibility.
2. Liberty , equality, and democracy as the foundation of the Republican Regime.
3.A foreign policy of loyalty to the principles of the UN charter, friendship with all peace-loving states, and a constant effort to achieve a Jewish-Arab alliance.
4. Defence based on compulsory service by all men and women, as would be laid down by law.
5. A policy of ingathering of exiles.
6. A development policy designed to double the population of the state within four years; rapid and balanced settlement of the sparsely inhabited areas of the country and the prevention of over-concentration in the cities; encouragement of private capital and private cooperative initiative, with efforts to develop labour enterprises in town and country.
7. General education for all the nation’s children; teaching Hebrew to the new immigrants; the fostering of pure and applied research in all the natural sciences; education in Arabic, with the study of Hebrew for all the country’s Arab citizens; expansion of agricultural and vocational education.
8 Rehabilitation of ex-soldiers.
9. Labour laws to ensure freedom of organisation for the workers, the fostering of trade Unions, and the fixing of minimum wages; encouragement for collective bargaining; the establishment of a network of social insurance institutions; laws for the defence of the workers.
10. Appointments to the Civil service on the basis of examination.
After three days debate, the first Knesset confirmed the government’s program and composition by 73 votes to 45.
The main laws passed by the Knesset were: Defence Service Law, under which Zahal was established; the Free Compulsory Education Law; the Law of the Return, giving every Jew ( except those working against the Jewish people, or those endangering the security of the state or public health) the right to settle in Israel, and making him a citizen the moment he announced his intention of settling in the country..”
Finally I’ll leave you with this, and I must admit that your input in the recent discussion of Daniel Jonah Goldhagen’s book “ Hitler’s Willing Executioners” was strident and of course you are entitled to say what please at the top of your voice, in your country or Sweden or in a Democratic Bantaba in Cyberspace.
I ask: Have you read Robert S. Wistrich’s “ Hitler and the Holocaust” – How and Why the Holocaust happened?
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&rls=GGLJ%2CGGLJ%3A2006-46%2CGGLJ%3Aen-GB&q=Robert+S.+Wistrich%E2%80%99s+%E2%80%9C+Hitler+and+the+Holocaust%E2%80%9D+&btnG=Search&meta=
I do suppose that you have. But if you have not, and the subject is not too distasteful to you, I suggest that you attempt to do so. ( to read it) Your conclusions may remain with you, and you are also free to communicate them to whoever you want to communicate with, including anyone at Bantaba.
So if you are not too weary, I’ll leave you with a few words from David Ben-Gurion, just a few words on Reparations from Germany ( bear in mind that this book was published in 1966 – and so much more has happened since that time:
Page 347:
“ At the beginning of January 1952, a debate unequalled in vehemence either before or since, was opened in the Knesset. It was concerned with the demand for reparations from Germany, which followed on a note sent by the government of Israel in March 1951 to the four occupying powers ( United Sates, United kingdom, Soviet Union and France ), presenting Israel’s claim for reparations totalling
$ 1,500,000.000 from the two parts of Germany ( East and West).
Referring to the annihilation of one third of the Jewish people by the Nazis, the note said:
“ A crime of such vast and fearful dimensions cannot be expiated by any measures of material reparation. All that can be done is to secure the indemnification of the heirs of the victims and the rehabilitation of the survivors. The Jews have been killed, but the German people continue to enjoy the fruits of the carnage and plunder perpetrated by their erstwhile leaders . In the biblical phrase, they have “killed and also taken possession”.
On September 27th 1951, Dr. Adenauer , Chancellor of West Germany, stated in the Bundestag at Bonn that his government was prepared “ to reach a solution of the problem of material reparations through negotiations with representatives of the government of Israel, which has absorbed a large number of homeless Jewish refugees” and with representatives of the Jewish people.”
For those who are interested and have the time, it would be instructive to read the next few paragraphs which I have skipped.
Next paragraph: “ By the end of 1963, the government of Israel had received almost 3, 114, 000,000 German marks – $ 778,650,000 – on account of reparations( The total agreed upon marks was DM 3, 450,000,000.) Personal compensation totalled DM 726,031,000…….
Now I’m a little tired and will make myself a cup of tea that I’d invite you to – bought at Lidl…..who by the way fall short of any Socialist ideal in Stockholm since they have not signed the “kollektiv avtal” which assures a minimum wage for its workers and guarantees workers’ protection and rights…..
Well, as woody Allen says “ If you don’t fail now and again, it’s a sign that you’re playing it safe,”
Abraham Ibn Esra says in my calendar for this week: “There is none more lonely than the man who loves only himself.”
Israel has come a long way, don’t you think?
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&rls=GGLJ%2CGGLJ%3A2006-46%2CGGLJ%3Aen-GB&q=Israel+and+Socialism&btnG=Search&meta=
Signing off for now,
Still foaming for you,
Cornelius
PS To be continued.
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Edited by - Cornelius on 10 Dec 2006 02:23:39 |
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