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jambo
3300 Posts |
 Posted - 24 Jul 2006 : 22:15:01
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kons, you are so busted, you were never in bolton, 
TTFN, remember what happened to pinochio
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Edited by - kondorong on 24 Jul 2006 22:17:25 |
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jul 2006 : 22:17:45
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quote:
Originally posted by jambo
kons, you are so busted, you were never in bolton,
TTFN, remember what happened to pinochio
With too many acronyms, one has to be careful sometimes before assuming I was never in Bolton but in Bradford. |
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jambo
3300 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jul 2006 : 22:22:15
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| Oops, so you are a yorkshire man, well then TTFN will not make sense to you. did you have onion vinger with your chips.. |
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jul 2006 : 22:23:46
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quote:
Originally posted by jambo
Oops, so you are a yorkshire man, well then TTFN will not make sense to you. did you have onion vinger with your chips..
I SURE DID. I ALSO ENJOYED MY YORKSHIRE PUDDING |
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jambo
3300 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jul 2006 : 22:28:21
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Kons we are so far off the main subject  enjoy your memories. |
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kondorong
Gambia
4380 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jul 2006 : 22:41:09
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quote:
Originally posted by jambo
Kons we are so far off the main subject enjoy your memories.
I sure will |
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Babylon
Sweden
691 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jul 2006 : 23:16:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Babylon
My first step would be to tear down all the ghettos and not force people to be stuck in those depressing concrete jungles, where most people have no other choise than to hang out with people from their own countries or continents. They donīt often even have to learn how to speak the language correct in the country they live in. Without proper skills in the countrys language, how can you be a part of society? We should all mix up more and live closer to eachother instead.
By this I donīt mean that migrants should give up their cultures or own languages and become swedish. Donīt get me wrong now. I just think that it is a bad idea to place migrants in specific suburban areas (those sad, grey ones) where they have less chance to integrate with the society and the new countrys language simply because there are hardly any white folks living there. In Sweden, it is tough if not impossible to get a flat somewhere outside the ghettos if your not a swede or donīt earn somewhere close to a million bucks a year. There are communities here that donīt welcome foreigners. So my point is, inorder to integrate with the society the ghettos must dissapear and all of us should have similar chances to succeed and not be forced to live like prisoners stuck in badly built houses in one place with one people until the end of days. |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2006 : 08:18:55
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In Uk, people of the same kind tend to flock together.Also when migrants first arrive the tend towards the cheaper end of the housing market. In Leicester many live in the terraced streets.
But as time goes on and they get more affluent they spread outwards from the city into the more affluent areas.
I think there is less ghettoisation in uk than in France, Holland and Germany. I think there the mentality is still that these people are GUEST workers. |
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Sister Omega
United Kingdom
2085 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2006 : 09:40:56
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Unlike gambiabev I live in the inner city in London which is very multicultural compared to a lot of cities in England. I agree with you Babylon that environmental deprivation snd isolation from the wider communities tends to ghettorise people. I think that schools are an important way of breaking down barriers and helping to integrate society, and of course immigrants need to access the host countries language to be able to integrate better into society to achieve social mobility. Gambiabev in Britain during the 1980's there was an exodus by the white middle class from inner city areas to move yo the greenbelt thus taking away investment from the inner city. That's when inner cities started to experienced African Diaspora and Asian schools by default. Within these schools common culture is taught which is prodominantly white British culture with little cross-curriculum multicultural education i.e, including the culture of the children within the curriculum through education resources. For example in a French, spanish or Italian classes the education resources could include different countries across the world from that linguphone. That way all children can field included instead of feeling excluded and marginalised. All the children and staff can get a better understanding of eaxh other hence breaking down barriera. This example can be used throughout the National Curriculum assisting in the ulimate goal of greater understanding and respect for each others culture.
Peace
Sister Omega |
Peace
Sister Omega |
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anna
Netherlands
730 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2006 : 09:56:51
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Hi Bev! I can't speak for France or Germany, but i think our Dutch government realised some 10 years ago that these migrant families would stay. That is why now gradually programs are developed that are focusing on 'total integration' (if such a thing is possible). A lot of money is spent on Dutch language programs, which are compulsory even for migrants who have been here for a long time.
All the local authorities (especially in the big cities) are working hard to try and 'spread' the various migrant groups. When new housing estates are built, it would always be a mixture of cheaper appartment buildings (for rent) and more expensive houses (for sale). Unfortunately, it is only a small percentage of migrants that 'get more affluent' as you call it.
Also, a lot of multicultural events have been organised - mostly they are very successful and well visited. Especially now in summer, there are music festivals in all the parks - it's always a nice atmosphere with all kinds of Arab and African music and nice smells of all the exotic foods that are for sale there. If you would visit such a festival, you would think everyone is happy and Holland is a paradise for the migrants (which, to a certain extent it is, i think). I know that of late Holland has got itself a bad reputation because the government comes up with all kinds of measures to keep migrants out. Some of these measures really make me feel ashamed. But on the other hand i can see that everything is done to make life comfortable for all the different migrantgroups that have settled here in the past years.
We must not forget that people of the same background tend to flock together. It would be a good thing if native Dutch and the migrants, wherever they come from, respect each other and are interested in each other's culture. To tell you the truth, i sometimes feel that it is more the Dutch that are interested in the cultures of the migrants (and also picking up aspects from it) than the migrants being very interested in Dutch culture.
My partner, who is a Gambian, has many Gambian friends here - they are always in and out of each others' houses. They dislike the Arab migrants fiercely (there is much prejudice amongst migrants groups too), and he is very polite and interested towards my Dutch friends, but i wonder if he will ever strike up a real friendship with one of them (or any other Dutch person).
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When an old African dies, it is as if a whole library has burnt down.
Amadou Hampate Ba (Mali) |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2006 : 10:30:14
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Sister Omega I visit my family in Leicster regularly, I am aware of the exodus of white people. This was economics,and as I said previously the more afluent migrants are the more they spread out of the ghettos. Poorer white people, such as my mum were left behind. But she is happy where she lives. It is very multicultural.
IN general I think Leicester is a pretty good example of multiculturalism. On the whole it is a fairly peaceful place.
If people are intending to make a country their home, rather than just work there for a few years, then I think it is important to try to assimilate the language and culture of the counrty you are living in. BUT NOT at the expense of your original culture. If you have traditions and so on that are important to you, you should be allowed to follow them in peace.Many children have to cope with dual cultures, which can be difficult for them.
Schools SHOULD be teaching about the culture of the indigeneous population of a country. It should also acknowledge the backgrounds of its pupils. Through a good education we all have the opportunity to BELONG to a society. |
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gambiabev
United Kingdom
3091 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2006 : 10:34:00
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Anna, interestingly in Leicester it is some of the migrants from previous generations (ed uganda asians) that complain loudest about the latest influx eg Somalians or Polish
They probably fear they will taking housing or jobs away from them, in the same way that poor white people used to fear that. ALot of things are down to econmics rather than racism. Oh and of cousre ignorance. |
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jambo
3300 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2006 : 11:52:50
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| this can work both ways, when people live in another country they should try and understand the local customs and not complain because they are not being catered for. Look at some of the cases were people have lived in an european country and never learnt the local language. They go the courts and complain that the councils have not made allowance for them. |
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serenata
Germany
1400 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2006 : 12:16:20
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It is true: German officials ignored the fact that many migrants wanted to stay. They are always very good at ignoring facts, but regarding migrants as 'guests' freed them from doing anything for their integration. It looks as if disintegration was planned and wanted; I can see no good reason for this tremendous neglect. Now, after years of fruitless struggle, we have a 'migration law', which on the whole means nothing but more restrictions. But it seems as if these restrictions are only meant for 'normal' people; if you are a heavy criminal, you may get away with almost everything:
There is a Turkish-Lebanese clan of several thousand people living in Germany. The majority of this clan is highly and notoriously criminal; in addition most of them live on welfare. A friend of mine who is working in a prison told me about them; almost every month members of the clan land in prison. This is going on in almost all bigger German cities, but they are never thrown out. Very mysterious. The official declaration is they don't know where to send them. HA! |
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Babylon
Sweden
691 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2006 : 15:15:59
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I agree that education and/or a good job is many times the ticket out of poverty.
However, the feeling of being less worth when you grow up in a rough neighbourhood with a bad rep and where people are considered as outcasts of the society is hard to get rid of. I think the kids out there in the hoods have less selfconfidence and less hope to succeed than kids from good areas and therefore donīt try hard enough in school. They think all they will ever be is a lowpaid cleaner or dishwasher, cabdriver anyway like their parents, so why try? It is as if the children are marked for life because of where they lived. And instead of speaking proper language they have invented new dialects and words which is hard to understand for people outside the ghetto. Even when they succeed as adults and get wellpaid jobs and villas I think they will always have that feeling somewhere in the back of their heads of not being good enough.
"Itīs not where you from, itīs where youīre gonna be"
But where youīre from will always be a part of who you are.
By the way I think what happen in France, with the riots, should be a great warningsign of what we are to expect from people who are isolated from the society. There is a limit of how much a human being can handle. |
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