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toubab1020



11992 Posts

Posted - 12 Oct 2013 :  13:45:57  Show Profile Send toubab1020 a Private Message
This from Foroyaa.


Editorial
THE DIASPORA SHOULD GO BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD
Published on Friday, 11 October 2013


BRAIN AND NOT EMOTION IS THE KEY TO LEADEFRSHIP AND SUCCESS
Means that distance oneself from the achievement of ends are ill conceived. Martin Luther King marched to Washington to prick the conscience of a Nation that is still remembering his immortal words.He did not go to Washington to take over the White House or the Congress. If the Gambia is to have a future, the children of Independence must have greater clarity, maturity and tact than those who were born during the colonial period.

The young of today should not be robots and marionettes in the hands of people who drive them into political adventurism that is full of noise and fury, but ends up as a hollow or empty enterprise leading to no fruitful gain. They should be partners to those who wish to empower the people through necessary and viable means so that they could take full ownership of the Country and make it a bastion of liberty, dignity and prosperity.The young in the Diaspora should understand that in International Law states and not personalities are recognised. Hence those who control state power become the legitimate authority for a state.

This is why the Syrian Foreign Minister could go to the US and address the UN even though all types of adjectives and superlatives were being used to describe his President as a war criminal. Gambian youth should not hear attacks of the West and immediately conclude that their actions against Gambian officials would be tolerated by those governments. These attacks become significant only if they lead to break in relations. Many Governments have come to realise that Heads of state of small countries do sometimes make noises just to win attention and ease pressure, if they are under pressure.
Hence in many cases; they do not isolate them, they just give more carrots and then continue to exercise influence on them to conform to international norms. Hence, the Gambian people should not be disappointed when they see a foreign Government maintain relation with the Gambia government after being attacked. Governments know how to handle each other without coming out in the open.Needless to say, a Government should also avoid inflammatory rhetoric that radicalise those who are quick to be infuriated and driven to rash actions that they may live to regret later.

Gambians should focus on each other and engage in the most important debate of our time on the future of the country. We must put emotion aside and rely on clarity of vision to shape the best way forward. This is the demand of destiny and it should be answered without delay.




http://www.foroyaa.gm/editorial/14337-the-diaspora-should-go-back-to-the-drawing-board

"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.

Senegambia

175 Posts

Posted - 12 Oct 2013 :  15:04:58  Show Profile Send Senegambia a Private Message
Toubab, I have no idea who this author is or what he stands for but this cloudy piece is, at best, an accident!

The Gambia Diaspora is a very sophisticated, well informed one. We admire Those who are standing up and speaking against dictatorship. They should be supported. Political adventurism? Very unfortunate term indeed.



Tesito

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toubab1020



11992 Posts

Posted - 12 Oct 2013 :  15:39:43  Show Profile Send toubab1020 a Private Message
Thanks, Senegambia for joining in this topic,from your words,

"this cloudy piece is, at best, an accident!"

and

"Political adventurism?"

Am I to deduce that you feel that the author (unknown ) has not identified correctly what he or she feels to be confused thinking among "THE DIASPORA" ?

quote:
Originally posted by Senegambia

Toubab, I have no idea who this author is or what he stands for but this cloudy piece is, at best, an accident!

The Gambia Diaspora is a very sophisticated, well informed one. We admire Those who are standing up and speaking against dictatorship. They should be supported. Political adventurism? Very unfortunate term indeed.





"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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Senegambia

175 Posts

Posted - 13 Oct 2013 :  10:25:24  Show Profile Send Senegambia a Private Message
Toubab, the article is vague and chaotic in my opinion. And in between one finds characterictics of the [actions of] Diaspora that are not appropriate. One and one together, he is dismissing embassy march. But he could have done so with reasoning and in a clear and straightforward manner, and that will be fine. Ofcourse not everyone endorses the Take-over for different reasons. .......

Thanks for sharing anyway. Have a nice sunday :)

Tesito

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kobo



United Kingdom
7765 Posts

Posted - 13 Oct 2013 :  10:34:34  Show Profile Send kobo a Private Message
CONTRASTING VIEWS ON OPPOSITION LEADERSHIP, DIASPORA ACTIVISM, MILITANCY & OUTCRY OF DISSIDENTS

1. Reaction to Foroyaa’s editorial on Gambian Diaspora Activism


2.Jammeh has no Opposition in the Gambia.


Edited by - kobo on 13 Oct 2013 10:45:10
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Nyarikangbanna

United Kingdom
1382 Posts

Posted - 13 Oct 2013 :  10:52:34  Show Profile Send Nyarikangbanna a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Senegambia

Toubab, I have no idea who this author is or what he stands for but this cloudy piece is, at best, an accident!

The Gambia Diaspora is a very sophisticated, well informed one. We admire Those who are standing up and speaking against dictatorship. They should be supported. Political adventurism? Very unfortunate term indeed.






Senegambia you want to tell me that you don't know that Halifa is the one behind this. Never mind who is the author. It would not be on foroyaa if it was not directed by Halifa Sallah. Do I need to tell you he is a control-freak??

Toubab, this is no commonsense. It is just silly and it is demeaning in content. Could you imagine Halifa calling people robots just because they are no longer touring his wisful ideology. He is such an arrogant guy. Not that pleasant for my liking.

Thanks

I do not oppose unity but I oppose dumb union.
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Senegambia

175 Posts

Posted - 13 Oct 2013 :  11:05:03  Show Profile Send Senegambia a Private Message
Nyarikangbanna, point duly noted.

Tesito

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toubab1020



11992 Posts

Posted - 13 Oct 2013 :  14:39:43  Show Profile Send toubab1020 a Private Message
Thanks, politocs and observers, for your input,my now buzzword concerning most things Gambian is,"clarification"
, it's only when the experts in these matters give their opinions that the average person can form some understanding.

Please don't let this posting stop discussion on this topic amongst yourselves,who know much more about things Gambian than I do.




"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.

Edited by - toubab1020 on 13 Oct 2013 14:44:02
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kobo



United Kingdom
7765 Posts

Posted - 13 Oct 2013 :  14:39:54  Show Profile Send kobo a Private Message
Senegambia!

Please refer again to the Editorial

NOTE:

1. I JUST DON'T GET YOUR POINTS THAT ARTICLE IS "CLOUDY", "VAGUE" & "CHAOTIC" AND HOW YOU TRYING TO DISMISS "POLITICAL ADVENTURISM" MENTIONED IN THIS EDITORIAL

2. ALSO EDITORIAL CAUTIONED ONLY (BUT DID NOT "DISMISS" AS YOU THINK OR PERCEIVED IT TO BE) CERTAIN ACTIONS, ACTIVISM & MILITANCY ON RECORD CONSTRUED TO BE "POLITICAL ADVENTURISM"; INCLUDING IMPROMPTU DUGA EMBASSY PROTEST AMONGST OTHER FUTILE ACTIONS (ESPECIALLY SIDIA BAYO'S NTCG AND ARM-CHAIR POLITICIAN MATHEW K. JALLOW'S DESKTOP OPERATION "BALANGBAR" OR "END DICTATORSHIP NOW" THAT LANDED DR. AMADOU JANNEH INTO JAIL, OTHERS IN VERY SERIOUS TROUBLE AND SOMEONE LOSING HIS LIFE AND COMMISSIONING MANY POORLY CONSTITUTED OR FRIVOLOUS ORGANISATIONS TO CAMPAIGN AGAINST A FAILED STATE UNDER A TYRANT). CAN'T YOU REFLECT ON RECORDS OF DISSIDENTS IN THE STRUGGLE

3. WHAT MADE YOU AND SEEDY S. KHAN (ON GAINAKO) BELIEVE THAT EDITORIAL IS ONLY OR EXCLUSIVELY ABOUT DUGA EMBASSY PROTEST

"A word to the wise is sufficient, The hearer can fill in the rest; enough said. ..."

Edited by - kobo on 13 Oct 2013 20:51:40
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Momodou



Denmark
11181 Posts

Posted - 13 Oct 2013 :  16:22:38  Show Profile Send Momodou a Private Message
Its healthy to agree to disagree even in the same party. Here are some reactions on Gambia-l by PDOIS supporters:
http://listserv.icors.org/scripts/wa-ICORS.exe?A2=ind1310b&L=gambia-l&F=&S=&P=40973

http://listserv.icors.org/scripts/wa-ICORS.exe?A2=ind1310b&L=gambia-l&F=&S=&P=53460

A clear conscience fears no accusation - proverb from Sierra Leone
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toubab1020



11992 Posts

Posted - 13 Oct 2013 :  16:49:21  Show Profile Send toubab1020 a Private Message
Go politicos Go .
Do some "clarification" for the average person.






"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.

Edited by - toubab1020 on 13 Oct 2013 16:56:47
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kobo



United Kingdom
7765 Posts

Posted - 13 Oct 2013 :  20:30:23  Show Profile Send kobo a Private Message
There is nothing more to clarify on Foroyaa Editorial digested and taken with mixed feelings. As far as am concern I have not seen on Foroyaa Editorial (considered pro=PDOIS organ) any ambiguous statements or double standards of PDOIS advocacy, posture, informing and mobilizing citizens to rally together, decide on destiny of country, take full ownership and make it a bastion of liberty, dignity and prosperity.

Also nothing in editorial is "demeaning", demoralizing or threatens diaspora activities in the struggle. It had not CONDEMNED or DISMISSED any hostile action(s) but a wake-up call to inform diaspora (dissidents) about its platform, certain standards, jurisdiction, roles, right strategies and tactics to adopt; in my opinion

Salient points selected and 1ST POINTS OBSERVED THAT;
  • "THE DIASPORA SHOULD GO BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD"

  • "BRAIN AND NOT EMOTION IS THE KEY TO LEADERSHIP AND SUCCESS"

  • "Means that distance oneself from the achievement of ends are ill conceived."

  • "If the Gambia is to have a future, the children of Independence must have greater clarity, maturity and tact than those who were born during the colonial period"

ON FOREGOING 60S, 80S TO PRESENT ARE DIFFERENT AND WORLD OR DYNAMICS OF POLITICS HAS CHANGE SINCE 9/11, THEREFORE ANY POLITICAL ACTION MUST BE CAREFULLY PLAN OR THOUGHT TO ACHIEVE DESIRED RESULTS AND WORTH SACRIFICING FOR.

Then 2ND POINTS CAUTIONED AND OFFERED SOUND ADVISE BY REMINDING DISAPORA POST INDEPENDENCE GENERATION OF YOUTHS THAT;
  • "The young of today should not be robots and marionettes in the hands of people who drive them into political adventurism that is full of noise and fury, but ends up as a hollow or empty enterprise leading to no fruitful gain."

  • "They should be partners to those who wish to empower the people through necessary and viable means so that they could take full ownership of the Country and make it a bastion of liberty, dignity and prosperity."

  • "The young in the Diaspora should understand that in International Law states and not personalities are recognised. Hence those who control state power become the legitimate authority for a state."

FINALLY CONCLUDING (TO CONTROL TRIAL & ERRORS, ELIMINATE FAULTS, SPONTANEOUS OR IRRESPONSIBLE ACTION(S) DETRIMENTAL TO THE MILITANT, CAUSE OR STRUGGLE AND AVOIDING CERTAIN POLITICAL RAMIFICATIONS) THAT;
  • "Gambians should focus on each other and engage in the most important debate of our time on the future of the country.

  • We must put emotion aside and rely on clarity of vision to shape the best way forward."

  • "This is the demand of destiny and it should be answered without delay."

"Collective resistance is what is required." by Joe Gambia-L

Edited by - kobo on 13 Oct 2013 22:24:28
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Janko

Gambia
1267 Posts

Posted - 14 Oct 2013 :  00:33:36  Show Profile  Visit Janko's Homepage Send Janko a Private Message
Thanks Kobo,
hope all is well with you and yours.

"Means that distance oneself from the achievement of ends are ill conceived."

Please, help me understand the above statement. Let those who know tell we who do not know.

Thanks

Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy
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kobo



United Kingdom
7765 Posts

Posted - 14 Oct 2013 :  22:35:06  Show Profile Send kobo a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Janko

Thanks Kobo,
hope all is well with you and yours.

"Means that distance oneself from the achievement of ends are ill conceived."

Please, help me understand the above statement. Let those who know tell we who do not know.

Thanks



NOTE:

1. To start with am not happy with this statement; "Please, help me understand the above statement. Let those who know tell we who do not know."! It looks queer from a scholar like you? Let me revised it and deal with you question; and to be comfortable I would consider statement as Please, help us understand the above statement. Let the scholars who know inform those who want to know.?

2. ON FOLLOWING;

"Means that distance oneself from the achievement of ends are ill conceived."

Think of it in any of these ways:

. Means is defined as modus operandi (i.e. "a procedure or method of operating") or simply as a method (i.e "a procedure, technique, or way of doing something, especially in accordance with a definite plan") to accomplish some end; End is defined as a result of using the means. So, if we were to put them together, we would say that something is an operating procedure (means) to obtain some result (end).”

. It means simply that something worth doing (taking an action or certain actions, investing or sacrifice) after due consideration (means) used to reach a goal (end)....”

. “The phrase means to an end means 'a way to accomplish your goals'. The way it's mentioned here can be in the form of an instrument, an activity or a course of action that is employed”

. “A means to an end is also an idiom. It often refers to an activity that is not as important as the goal you hope to achieve. For example, Mike doesn't have any professional ambitions. For him, work is just a means to an end. One starts something and finishes it, without that something leading into something else. Thus, it is an end in itself.”

3. NOW LET ME TRY TRANSLATING LITERARY "Means that distance oneself from the achievement of ends are ill conceived." = "Means (Any form of action(s) premeditated and done) that distance (isolates) oneself from the achievement of ends (certain results or pre-determined goal(s) before an activity) are ill conceived(badly planned)." DEEMED TO BE A FAILURE AND/OR FUTILE ACTIVITY

HOPE THIS HELPS


MORE RELEVANT UPDATES;

1. Foroyaa’s Sham Editorial; the DUGA trio are Heroes not to be Vilified but celebrated
By Oceanic Lad


2.Foroyaa Editorial on Gambian Diaspora activism: BRAIN AND NOT EMOTION IS THE KEY TO LEADEFRSHIP AND SUCCESS
Gambia-L Thread

Edited by - kobo on 14 Oct 2013 23:12:24
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Momodou



Denmark
11181 Posts

Posted - 14 Oct 2013 :  22:36:39  Show Profile Send Momodou a Private Message
FACEBOOK DEBATE ON THE FOROYAA EDITORIAL ON POLITICAL ADVENTURISM


Foroyaa Editorial: Published on Monday, 14 October 2013


This Managing Editor has been reliably informed that there is a debate on the Foroyaa Editorial entitled: ‘The Need To Go Back To The Drawing Board’.Let us take this opportunity to inform our readers who still may not know that the editorial column of a newspaper is the opinionated side of the paper. It combines facts with opinions with a view to giving a perspective that the reader may deem to be a fair comment.
It is not strange for others to deem the comment to be unfair. Those who are so disposed may write a rejoinder to put their opinions across. Hence, anyone who feels that the editorial was not a fair comment may write to Foroyaa to put one’s opinion across.

However, as Managing Editor, I, Sam Sarr, would like to inform the readers that each editorial is written by either the editorial advisers or the Managing editor who are the founders of the paper and know the purpose for which it was established and could therefore be the custodian of its opinions. Each is also willing to be personally responsible for any opinion expressed in the paper. It is unfortunate that our service providers have been putting the name of Ousman Njie, the person who does the postings online on the editorial and articles written by others. We have repeatedly cautioned them to change this but they seem to be having some problems in rectifying their mistakes. May be a reader could give us some advice to transmit to them.

This particular editorial on the need to go back to the drawing board is a subject of debate that one of our editorial advisers would like to take up with one of the Washington trio, namely; Pa Samba Jow, for reasons he would explain for himself. The facebook comments have been forwarded to him and Foroyaa is ready to host the debate on whether or not the Diaspora needs to go back to the drawing board or whether certain acts that led to arrests and court actions are or are not a manifestation of political adventurism.
This paper, however, maintains its respect for all Gambians, including the trio, and will continue to respect the rights of each Gambian to manifest their sovereignty the best way they know how and will continue to entertain meaningful debate on the best way forward for the country. The paper is the amplifier of divergent views. Be part of this constructive debate on the future of the country.

Source: Foroyaa Editorial



Open Letter to Pa Samba Jow


By Halifa Sallah
Foroyaa: Published on Monday, 14 October 2013


Dear Pa Samba, I am writing this letter to you because of the link you chose to have with me from your teenage days to date that is rooted in the love for justice and fair play and the commitment to do everything necessary to uproot oppression and injustice from the face of the earth. Actions however must be dictated by the Law of necessity and viability to enable us to achieve respectable and noble results. I am still trying to find out what drove you to be among those who would take over a Gambian embassy and appoint yourselves envoys of a foreign government knowing fully well that you have not been given and will never be given any accreditation by the US Government. What lesson is there for the Gambian people to learn that they have not already learned?

I remember listening to the utterances of the leaders of the NDAM when their party came into being. They claimed that the other parties were not action oriented. What was the end result? Mr Juwara simply made utterances of marching to the state house and ended up with a sedition charge. When he was being tried few people turned up. When he was sentenced few people turned up. When he was released we went to give solidarity and I remember his staunchest ally Pa Manneh steaming with passion as he turned the video camera around to take the shots. What is the end result? NDAM exists only in name. Lamin had earlier capitulated to the APRC and Pa recently was escorted by a large crowd of APRC enthusiasts to have him nominated as an APRC candidate for the ward and he won. He is now a sitting APRC councillor.

Example number two. I was supposed to address a symposium where Dr Amadou Scattred Janneh also appeared. Unfortunately, I went on a mission. When I came back I was told that he was criticising the legal opposition. Eventually, he went on a T-shirt throwing spree as his activism. While we had everywhere written Agenda 2011 for Democratic change and were in fact short of T shirts which we could have openly and freely distributed because of our base, he was arrested and few people appeared at his trial. He was later incarcerated without any mass uprising. He was pardoned and left the Gambia. In Senegal, he and Dr Sedat Jobe called on the armed forces to arrest Jammeh without having any base in the military to warrant such a call. Hence today, Gambian opponents of the regime in Senegal are finding it very difficult to be granted a platform. Many of these people who would have been very useful on the ground in an election Campaign would find it impossible to come to the Gambia unless Jammeh takes an exit. They are not weakening Jammeh. They are expanding his influence beyond our borders and Gambian opponents of the Government are more unsettled in Senegal today than they ever were because of the adventurism of a few who even gave the impression that they could stop the President of Senegal from responding to an invitation from Jammeh to grace Independence celebration.

Jow, my fear is that the terrain in the US is also heading in the same direction. I have heard of some Gambian protestors being arrested and released in New York after a scuffle with a Gambian diplomat. This gives the impression that the Gambia diplomat has more backing from US law than the protestor. Your arrest and trial also sends the same signal.

The lesson that Gambians in the Diaspora should drive home is that in the US you could protest peacefully without hindrance or implication. The only way you could send a relevant message to the government and people is when you succeed in motivating the vast majority of Gambians to come together to issue a statement demanding human rights to be respected, electoral reform be undertaken and the franchise to be extended to the Diaspora. These are three basic demands that all Gambians could unite around and get the support of the international community.

In my view, one should distinguish Jammeh as a leader from the Public service. The government is a major employer of Gambians. Hence political activists should treat public servants with respect rather than with contempt. In the same vein, people join the army and security forces for survival. In the aftermath of the coup many opponents of the government kept on attacking the military and thus pushed them to move from their national and Republican character as protectors of the sovereignty of the Republic and people to a partisan character of keeping a party in Office.

The Gambians in the Diaspora should go back to the drawing board. The Gambians of each country should organise a Sovereign National Conference that should culminate with the adoption of these three demands, namely, respect for fundamental rights and freedom, electoral reform and enfranchisement of Gambians in the Diaspora. Once resolutions are adopted on these three areas they could be promoted nationally and internationally in the national interest by all without anyone promoting any vested partisan interest. In the US the support of Jesse Jackson or the Carter Centre could be sought to organise such a conference which could start with meetings at local levels and end up with a meeting at National level. Peaceful demonstrations, Symposia involving Gambian Academia, Conferences and other activities could be organised to promote such an agenda.

Let me repeat, the most important task before the Diaspora is to be enfranchised. Section 39 subsections (1) and (2) of the Gambian constitution states:
“(1) Every citizen of The Gambia being eighteen years or older and of sound mind shall have the right to vote for the purpose of elections of a President and members of the National Assembly, and shall be entitled to be registered as a voter in a National Assembly constituency for that purpose. (2) Every citizen of The Gambia who is a registered voter shall be entitled to vote in a referendum held in accordance with this Constitution or any other law.”

Section 11 subsection (2) of the Elections Acts adds “The Commission shall prepare, compile and maintain in accordance with this part a register of voters for each constituency and a register of Gambian registered voters in foreign countries. “Section 141 concludes: “The Independent Electoral Commission may make rules for Gambians in any foreign country to vote in a Presidential election.”This means that registration of Gambians in the Diaspora is mandatory. Gambians in the Diaspora should struggle for their birthright. What are the Gambians in the Diaspora waiting for in demanding for their birthright?
Jow, I must emphasise again that there is no political vacuum in the Gambia and the claim that the opposition in the Gambia is fragile is a farce. The ruling party is fully engaged at all fronts. The Central Committee of PDOIS is currently reviewing an agenda to be forwarded to its members for onward transmission to the public. Principal among our recommendations is for political parties to select their presidential candidates by 2014. If there is electoral reform and a second round of voting each candidate would contest to ensure that the incumbent is deprived of a second round victory. If there is no reform the Candidates would lead their parties into a dialogue to reach a consensus on a candidate.

Hence, what supporters of PDOIS would be required to do is to promote the grand agenda for protection of fundamental rights and freedom, electoral reform and enfranchisement of the Diaspora and the 2016 electoral agenda which puts forth our minimum programme and prepares the ground for the selection of a presidential Candidate by 2014.

We therefore hope that all supporters of PDOIS will embrace this way forward.
We do recognise that some people want quick fixes. They want Gambia to change overnight. We are not on their way. Those who feel that they could build armies to take power or use social media to engineer a mass uprising to take power should go ahead and not give the impression that we are an obstacle to their quest.

The future will be the judge of us all and history will record the verdict. In conclusion, let me buttress my message by recalling an incident. I was enrolled as a joint Masters/ PHD student at Howard University in 1976 and when William Tolbert, the then President of Liberia, was invited to address the US Congress, he was invited by the Howard administration to give an address at the auditorium. We joined our Liberian colleagues to highlight how the diamond mines of the Bommi Hills were being exploited without ploughing back any benefits to the people. He saw the placards and heard the slogans before going in. That was the most we expected. However, while we were outside waiting for him to come out and take a glance at the posters, an agent provocateur called on the students to go in the hall to disrupt the meeting. I quickly shouted that he should be ignored. One Guinean young man tried to rush in but was stopped and he tried to fight his way but was physically handled by other students. This brawl led to arrests. We served as witnesses and the person who presided over the case decided to treat it as a foolish case after hearing the testimonies. Afterwards he called some of us in his chambers and expressed his appreciation for our maturity and even went further to inform us that he once served as a Peace Corps volunteer in The Gambia.

Party members are ambassadors of their parties in the Diaspora. The sooner this is learnt the better.
Demonstrations are legal instruments in a democratic society. They are effective when there is a large and respectable turnout, decorum, relevant and popular demands that all decent human beings could subscribe to. Once one exceeds the bounds of legality one loses the protection of the law. Hence my candid view is that Gambians in the Diaspora should be mindful of this fact and conduct their actions within the limits confined by those laws.

Halifa Sallah

A clear conscience fears no accusation - proverb from Sierra Leone
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toubab1020



11992 Posts

Posted - 14 Oct 2013 :  23:15:52  Show Profile Send toubab1020 a Private Message
This Bantaba topic has really taken off now,what will happen next,surely not political dialogue with all those involved ? that would truly be a milestone in the history of Gambian politics if anything came of that.

"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.

Edited by - toubab1020 on 14 Oct 2013 23:16:53
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