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| Momodou |
Posted - 18 Jun 2021 : 17:12:03
GAMBIA-L Digest 15
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: ALD CONFERENCE
by mostafa jersey marong <mbmarong@students.wisc.edu>
2) Re: The saga of militarism......
by "Malanding S. Jaiteh" <msjaiteh@mtu.edu>
3) Re: Draft Constitution
by sarian@osmosys.incog.com (Sarian Loum)
4) Re: ALD CONFERENCE
by mostafa jersey marong <mbmarong@students.wisc.edu>
5) Re: ALD CONFERENCE
by "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu>
6) New Member
by "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu>
7) addresses
by ABDOU <at137@columbia.edu>
8) Re: ALD CONFERENCE (fwd)
by "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu>
9) Re: ECONOMIC FIGURES
by ABDOU <at137@columbia.edu>
10) forwarding message
by ABDOU <at137@columbia.edu>
11) ALD Conference
by "BOJANG,MAMBUNA" <MBOJANG@MUSIC.TRANSY.EDU>
12) Re: ALD Conference
by "Malanding S. Jaiteh" <msjaiteh@mtu.edu>
13) list problems
by ABDOU <at137@columbia.edu>
14) REVIEW GAMBIA-L (fwd)
by "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu>
15) Re: ALD CONFERENCE
by Gabriel Ndow <gndow@auc.edu>
16) New Member
by Gabriel Ndow <gndow@auc.edu>
17) Re: ECONOMIC FIGURES
by mostafa jersey marong <mbmarong@students.wisc.edu>
18) Re: forwarding message
by momodou@inform-bbs.dk (Momodou Camara)
19) Re: REVIEW GAMBIA-L (fwd)
by TijanSenghore@kemet.com (Tijan Senghore)
20) Re: ALD CONFERENCE
by mostafa jersey marong <mbmarong@students.wisc.edu>
21) Re: ALD CONFERENCE
by sjagne@auc.edu (siga jagne)
22) re: REVIEW GAMBIA-L (fwd)
by SHAFTR@ucipm.ucdavis.edu
23) re: REVIEW GAMBIA-L (fwd)
by SHAFTR@ucipm.ucdavis.edu
24) re: REVIEW GAMBIA-L (fwd)
by Gabriel Ndow <gndow@auc.edu>
25) re: REVIEW GAMBIA-L (fwd)
by Gabriel Ndow <gndow@auc.edu>
26) Nationality
by "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu>
27) Re: ALD CONFERENCE
by Amadou Scattred Janneh <AJANNEH@pstcc.cc.tn.us>
28) re: REVIEW GAMBIA-L (fwd)
by Amadou Scattred Janneh <AJANNEH@pstcc.cc.tn.us>
29) re: REVIEW GAMBIA-L (fwd)
by "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu>
30) Re: REVIEW GAMBIA-L (fwd)
by "Malanding S. Jaiteh" <msjaiteh@mtu.edu>
31) re: REVIEW GAMBIA-L (fwd)
by "Famara A. Sanyang" <FAMARAAS@amadeus.cmi.no>
32) Re: ALD CONFERENCE (fwd)
by mostafa jersey marong <mbmarong@students.wisc.edu>
33) Re: ALD CONFERENCE
by sjagne@auc.edu (siga jagne)
34) Re: ALD CONFERENCE
by L Konteh <L.Konteh-95@student.lut.ac.uk>
35) Re: ALD CONFERENCE (fwd)
by "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu>
36) Re: ALD CONFERENCE
by Yaya Jallow <yj0001@jove.acs.unt.edu>
37) Re: ALD CONFERENCE
by Oumar Ndongo <ondongo@benfranklin.hnet.uci.edu>
38) house cleaning & other things
by ABDOU <at137@columbia.edu>
39) Re: ALD CONFERENCE
by Amadou Scattred Janneh <AJANNEH@pstcc.cc.tn.us>
40) Re: ALD CONFERENCE
by Yaya Jallow <yj0001@jove.acs.unt.edu>
41) Re: ALD CONFERENCE
by Oumar Ndongo <ondongo@benfranklin.hnet.uci.edu>
42) Re: ALD CONFERENCE
by "Famara A. Sanyang" <FAMARAAS@amadeus.cmi.no>
43) Economic figures
by "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu>
44) Re: ALD CONFERENCE
by "Famara A. Sanyang" <FAMARAAS@amadeus.cmi.no>
45) Re: ALD CONFERENCE
by Oumar Ndongo <ondongo@benfranklin.hnet.uci.edu>
46) FW: ARTICLE: Female Circumcision Controversy (fwd)
by "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu>
47) STATS GAMBIA-L and house cleaning
by ABDOU <at137@columbia.edu>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 14:34:59 -0500
From: mostafa jersey marong <mbmarong@students.wisc.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: ALD CONFERENCE
Message-ID: <199605051934.OAA107957@audumla.students.wisc.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
You are wrong instead. The Economist Intelligence Report is wrong. Why dont
you see the "source classification of revenue" section in the latest
Estimates of Government Revenue and Expenditure 1995/96 published by the
Ministry of Finance and Econnomic Affairs, Banjul, and Printed by the
Government Printer , Banjul. That is more authoritative. In that
publication, about 100 percent of RECURRENT EXPENDITURE comes from GLF ie
Gambia Local Funds or funds locally generated ( about75% of which comes from
taxes on international trade and services ie custom duties and charges on
everything from sugar to hotel bed tax). The remaining 25% of recurrent
expenditure funds comes from direct taxes such as the 100 dalasi you paid
for your passport and the 150 dalasi I surrendered to the customs guy before
I could board my flight last September. Regarding funds for DEVELOPMENT
EXPENDITURE however, only 27% comes from GLF. The balance comes from LOANS
and grants (aid). Remember I said LOANS which you cannot classify as aid
since we will have to pay it back. Remember too that total government
expenditure comprise of recurrent about,80%, and Development about 20%.
Recurrent includes the salary of the nurse and the teacher, fuel,
stationery, etc, etc. Example of Development or capital expenditure is the
improvement to RVH and rehabilitation of the South Bank road. Please dont
tell me about EIU.
Mustafa o lu At 08:48 PM 5/3/96 -0700, you wrote:
>
>Yes, unfortunately it is that bad.
>Check out the publications Country report and country profiles published
>by Economic Intelligence Unit of Britain. They also publish The Economist.
>Country report is a quarterly publication and comes 4 times a year while
>country profile is an annual publication. Those are the figures cited
>there. Unfortunately, we all know that we are a very poor country with
>no natural resources and aid dependent. Those are some facts that were not
>revealed to The Gambian population during Jawara's regime.
> Try your university library, maybe they might carry it.
> Thanks
> Tony
>
>n Fri, 3 May 1996, mostafa jersey marong wrote:
>
>> ".........over 80% of our revenue come from international aid." Where did
>> you get your figures from? It is not that bad ...eh!
>> At 05:21 PM 5/3/96 -0700, you wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Latjorr, great job on efforts regarding the conference. As far as I can
>> >think of, the issues should include ways of mobilizing international
>> >pressure on the AFPRC to conduct a fair election sometimes in 1996 without
>> >their involvement in it as a political party. That is the only way, we can
>> >have something closest to an impartial election. If they become a
>> >political participant, history will repeat itself with the same
practices that
>> >most of us have accused the Jawara regime of during the past 3 decades.
Sierra
>> >Leone is a good example with their recent transition to a civilian
>> >democracy about a month and a half ago. The international community's
>> >pressure forced their military government to give up power and conducted
>> >the election in a timely manner. Jammeh and the AFPRC will not have any
>> >choice but to succumb to our international donor's community because they
>> >are our bloodline since over 80% of our revenue's come from international
>> >aid.
>> > On another note, Morro has been removed from the list as he had
>> >requested yesterday. I am sure that we will be notified whenever he is
>> >ready to come back.
>> > Thanks
>> > Tony
>> >
>> >
>> > ========================================================================
>> >
>> > Anthony W Loum tloum@u.washington.edu
>> > Supervisor, Business Administration Library 206-543-4360 voice
>> > 100 Balmer Hall 206-685-9392 fax
>> > University of Washington
>> > Box 353200
>> > Seattle, Wa.98195-3200
>> >
>> > =========================================================================
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 19:02:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Malanding S. Jaiteh" <msjaiteh@mtu.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Cc: msjaiteh@mtu.edu
Subject: Re: The saga of militarism......
Message-ID: <199605052302.TAA20419@cedar.ffr.mtu.edu>
Content-Type: text
I hope that we do not get bogged down on hte debate between
personalities. Believe me everyone of these guys has some good side as
well as some bad side. Whether it is jawara or jammeh or john doe they
we would have some who would fight them and those who would fight for
them. By duelling on personalities we may be losing sight.
I believe that in other to keep on track we should start addressing
some key questions. What is it that is in Jammeh government's bag that
would indicate to us that there would be fair play, respect for each others
right and rule of law if they continue to participate in Gambia's
politics?
What have they done to ensure that accountability and transparency
becomes institutionalized rather than a personalized trade mark?
God bless you all
Malanding
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 21:35:03 -0700
From: sarian@osmosys.incog.com (Sarian Loum)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Draft Constitution
Message-ID: <199605060435.VAA15861@thesky.incog.com>
Hi,
I have a scanner at work. If you mailed me a copy of the draft, I'll scanned it and send it to the group and that'll eliminate the need of having to type the whole thing. I'm also expecting a copy from Banjul soon. If you want to do that let me know and I'll send you my mailing address.
Sarian
> From msjaiteh@mtu.edu Sat May 4 10:00 PDT 1996
> Date: Sat, 4 May 1996 12:57:03 -0400 (EDT)
> From: "Malanding S. Jaiteh" <msjaiteh@mtu.edu>
> To: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
> X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.0(beta) -- ListProcessor by CREN
> Subject: Re: Draft Constitution
>
> >
> > Greetings:
> >
> > I have in my possession a copy of the new draft constitution! I would like to
> > make it available to all of you but it is several pages long and at the moment
> > I have very limited time. As some of you know this is finals period and I have
> > quite a bit of grading to do (one of the many joys of a teacher).
> >
> > I may be able to do it sometime late next week. The other possibility is to
> > bring it to the conference in D.C. and make several copies for distribution.
> >
> > LatJor
> >
>
>
> LatJor, please give me an estimate of cost of photocoy and postage I will send you reembusment.
>
> I need a copy of the draft. Thanks
>
> Malanding
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 00:01:54 -0500
From: mostafa jersey marong <mbmarong@students.wisc.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: ALD CONFERENCE
Message-ID: <199605060501.AAA76377@audumla.students.wisc.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I hasten to add this: if you intend "..80% of our revenue " to mean totat
expenditure ie government, non governmental organizations and private sector
then EIU's Report is still wrong because government accounts for more than
50% of our GNP. (to see why see my earlier posting and add up).lAt 05:21 PM
5/3/96 -0700, you wrote:
>
>
>
> Latjorr, great job on efforts regarding the conference. As far as I can
>think of, the issues should include ways of mobilizing international
>pressure on the AFPRC to conduct a fair election sometimes in 1996 without
>their involvement in it as a political party. That is the only way, we can
>have something closest to an impartial election. If they become a
>political participant, history will repeat itself with the same practices that
>most of us have accused the Jawara regime of during the past 3 decades. Sierra
>Leone is a good example with their recent transition to a civilian
>democracy about a month and a half ago. The international community's
>pressure forced their military government to give up power and conducted
>the election in a timely manner. Jammeh and the AFPRC will not have any
>choice but to succumb to our international donor's community because they
>are our bloodline since over 80% of our revenue's come from international
>aid.
> On another note, Morro has been removed from the list as he had
>requested yesterday. I am sure that we will be notified whenever he is
>ready to come back.
> Thanks
> Tony
>
>
> ========================================================================
>
> Anthony W Loum tloum@u.washington.edu
> Supervisor, Business Administration Library 206-543-4360 voice
> 100 Balmer Hall 206-685-9392 fax
> University of Washington
> Box 353200
> Seattle, Wa.98195-3200
>
> =========================================================================
>
>
>
>
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 11:39:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu>
To: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: ALD CONFERENCE
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.92a.960506085329.5075A-100000@saul1.u.washington.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Mostafa, this is a debatable issue and instead of engaging in this
incessant arguement about it let us leave it at that. It is your
prerogative to believe whatever you want and the same thing applies to me.
The Economic Intelligence ( EIU ) is a world wide, highly reputable
journal
which is carried by major institutions of higher learning through out the
world. They research and publish these reports for over hundred countries
world wide. For the purpose of scholarly research, I would rather derieve
data from EIU than from the government sources that you have cited. The
EIU is neutral, objective and does not skew data in favor or against any
of the covered countries. It does not have a stake in any of them. If
others have any opinions on this issue, you are certainly welcome to voice
them out. It is my contention that The Gambia does not a have big and
broad enough economic and tax base to sustain its programs without
international
assistance in the forms of loans, aid, grants or whatever they might be.
A point of correction. I should have stated that 75 to 80% of our revenues
come from foreign aid instead of " over 80% ".
Abdou and Lang, let us try and find a common ground. We are all
defending our principles. As stated that the condemnation of Yaya Jammeh
does not translate to a support of Jawara, most members in this forum
including myself can make the same counter arguement. Denunciation of the
Jawara regime is by no means synonymous with an endorsment of Jammeh and
the AFPRC. I have made clear my position on Jammeh in this forum many
times and there is no need for a repetition. As a matter of principle, I
do not believe military takeover of truly democratic governments. Please
note my words here" TRULY ". My opinion is that DEMOCRACY as we apply it
in the western context does not exist in Africa and Jawara's government
was not an exception. All the variables inherent in western democracies
are thus lacking in our continent. Let us take an example, are the
democracies practised in The United States and Britain etc equivalent to
that we enjoyed under Jawara. Did we enjoy the same basic individual
rights and freedoms of expressions etc under Jawara ? To be honest, the
answer is a resounding NO. Therefore, it was not a true democracy. It was
rather a farce with the democracy label attach to it. Note this, the same
thing can be said of Yaya Jammeh as Lamin Jammeh correctly pointed out
that both governments had their defects. Based on my above reasoning it
was a pseudo democracy and thus worthy of a coup d'etat. The only problem
here is that Jammeh has been there too long and should have abdicated the
power long time ago. I am just as eager as all of you to go back to
civilian rule with Jammeh/AFPRC returning to the barracks. That is why I
am
very supportive of the conference that Latjorr is trying to organize so
that we can help and do whatever it takes to remove the AFPRC and have a
civilian rule that will hopefully exercise the real tenets of democracy.
Abdou and Lang, so our common ground is that based on our positions, you
should not be perceived as supporter of Jawara, while I am neither a
supporter of Jammeh/AFPRC.
Thanks
Tony
========================================================================
Anthony W Loum tloum@u.washington.edu
Supervisor, Business Administration Library 206-543-4360 voice
100 Balmer Hall 206-685-9392 fax
University of Washington
Box 353200
Seattle, Wa.98195-3200
=========================================================================
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 12:17:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu>
To: Gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: New Member
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.92a.960506121452.25756A-100000@saul4.u.washington.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
I received a request from Karen Fung of Standford Universtiy to join
Gambia-l and she has been added. We will be getting an introduction from
her soon.
Thanks
Tony
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 18:39:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: ABDOU <at137@columbia.edu>
To: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: addresses
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.93L.960506183418.6291C-100000@sawasdee.cc.columbia.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Hi,
Sarian and Sheikh Tijan are not getting our mailings. I just want
to let you know about this so that you won't expect them to reply to
things you say. I will see what the problem is after my exams on Friday.
Also, we seem to have some cofiguration problems with the list. It could
also be that there are typos in the addresses so for those who put them on
the list, check the addresses below and tell me if anything was not spelt
correctly:
sarian@osmosys.incog.com
TijanSenghore@kemet.com
Bye for now,
-Abdou.
*******************************************************************************
A. TOURAY.
(212) 749-7971
MY URL ON THE WWW= http://www.cc.columbia.edu/~at137
A FINITE IN A LAND OF INFINITY.
SEEKING BUT THE REACHABLE.
I WANDER AND I WONDER.
ALL RESPITE IS FINAL.
*******************************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 17:32:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu>
To: Gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: ALD CONFERENCE (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.92a.960506173212.5895B-100000@saul6.u.washington.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 17:31:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu>
To: "Malanding S. Jaiteh" <msjaiteh@mtu.edu>
Subject: Re: ALD CONFERENCE
Hi Malanding, that is fine. This is what this forum is all about.
Politely agreeing, disagreeing and debating the issues which can
ultimately
lead to better understanding and exchanging of ideas. Although, I still
stand my original position on the figures being discussed, I will not
interprete
this as disrespect on me by both Mostafa and yourself and hopefully vice
versa.
Thanks
Tony
On Mon, 6 May 1996, Malanding S. Jaiteh wrote:
> Well Tony, I am tempted to disagree with you on figures at debate
> here. Certainly we cannot claim that the GAmbia can stand by itself
> without aid of one kind or another. However, for academic reason we
> should not accept figure that do not reflect the realities. After all
> where ddid this world reknown institute obtained the figures? Could they
> be estimates based on 1990 or so figures? It is worth asking a question
> or two before one takes them for their face value.
> Just so caution.
> malanding
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 21:26:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: ABDOU <at137@columbia.edu>
To: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: ECONOMIC FIGURES
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.93L.960506210612.21810A-100000@bonjour.cc.columbia.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
HI,
I am siding with Tony on the economic figures debate. The Gambian
bureaucracy has been proven time and time again to be inefficient, inept,
corrupt and just plain unprofessional. The magazine with its experts does
not have to ask the governemnt for figures. You can cull that from
currency exchanges, ship and air traffic, and etc. Remember how corrupt
those bureaucrats are and ask yourself whether they are likely to, or are
able to, report accurate figures.
My real reason for writing, however, is to inform members
interested in the establishment of democracy in Africa that there is an
upcoming bill in the US Senate to impose economic sanctions against the
"government" of Nigeria. This bill is sponsored by Nancy Kassebaum (R) of
Kansas and is called "The Nigeria Democracy Act" . It would seize the
assets that those soldiers looted from the Nigerian people, ban new
investments in Nigeria, and impose travelling restrictions on the junta.
So I would encourage you to call your representatives and ask them to vote
for this bill. I also have the email addresses of some politicians on my
Homepage at: http://www.cc.columbia.edu/~at137 . You can also write them
using these addresses. It would be nice if you also mention that the
criminals in The Gambia should also have their Swiss bank accounts seized.
Mention how these people beat up a VOA correspondent and then deported him
without any due process. This is the only way that we can bring pressure
to bear on these murderers.
Peace, and may justice and freedom rain down on the peoples of The
Gambia and Nigeria
*******************************************************************************
A. TOURAY.
(212) 749-7971
MY URL ON THE WWW= http://www.cc.columbia.edu/~at137
A FINITE IN A LAND OF INFINITY.
SEEKING BUT THE REACHABLE.
I WANDER AND I WONDER.
ALL RESPITE IS FINAL.
*******************************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 13:37:54 -0400 (EDT)
From: ABDOU <at137@columbia.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: forwarding message
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.93L.960507133709.7025A-100000@sawasdee.cc.columbia.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Hi,
Amadou sent the following message. We seem to be having problems.
The message was rejected by the server because of "suspicious subject".
Talk about the AFPRC ! I will look into the problem.
-Abdou.
**********
here is the message:
**********
Received: from PSTCC6.PSTCC.CC.TN.US by mx3.u.washington.edu
(5.65+UW96.04/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id AA03133;
Tue, 7 May 96 07:44:30 -0700
Received: from PSTCC6.PSTCC.CC.TN.US by PSTCC6.PSTCC.CC.TN.US
(PMDF V5.0-4 #11457) id <01I4F6KXEOCG000GVG@PSTCC6.PSTCC.CC.TN.US> for
gambia-l@u.washington.edu; Tue, 07 May 1996 10:44:27 -0500 (EST)
Date: Tue, 07 May 1996 10:43:14 -0500 (EST)
From: Amadou Scattred Janneh <AJANNEH@pstcc.cc.tn.us>
Subject: Bittaye out of office?
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Message-Id: <01I4F6KXEQ8I000GVG@PSTCC6.PSTCC.CC.TN.US>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
I understand that Justice Minister Bittaye has also been sacked. He replaced
Marong only a few months ago. Can any one confirm this?
Amadou
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 May 1996 13:46:00 EDT
From: "BOJANG,MAMBUNA" <MBOJANG@MUSIC.TRANSY.EDU>
To: <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: ALD Conference
Message-ID: <07MAY96.14868195.0023.MUSIC@MUSIC.TRANSY.EDU>
Folks,
I believe we are all working for the common good of our nation,
regardless of whether we agree or disagreewith one another.
Infact, we won't know where we are going wrong if we all agree on
one thing for the very first time. We need to have gadflies in our
midst and be ready to accept critisms without anger or hatred. In other
words, I should not expect everyone to agree with what I say. However,
its quite obvious that some of us, MORRO in particular, respond to their
critics with anger and hatred. I am not unmindful of the fact that to go
on bickering over the Jawara fiasco would be to recede into the quagmire
of tedium and indifference that went on far too long, but allow me to
reiterate myself that I still and will always mantain my firm stance,
without any hesitation, as a defender for the AFPRC "over" the Jawara
gov't(read carefully). I honestly agree with most of the contributors
that the AFPRC have over stayed their welcome.
The question now is, will we(those of us howling from far away western
nations) be ready to go back and work together as a group for the good
of our people, or will we stand aloof and watch the next civilian gov't.
steer us just like Jawara steered us rather slowly, but verily into the
morass, the malaise, the economic basket case that the Gambia is today?
We need to adress such questions at the upcoming conferences both in D.C
and in Atlanta.
So my fellow Gambians, this is the post Jawara era. Let us not let
emotions get in the way of understanding. Let us commence the mammoth
task of rewriting our history. Let us drive out fear and empower people.
Let us raise critical questions. Let us begin the process of collective-
ly solving our problems and meet our society's needs. Let us work
together to ameliorate our ad hoc conditions...to help replace ignorance
with education, poverty with prosperity, and disease with good health
for all. We all owe it to the motherland.
GOD BLESS US ALL!
PA.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 15:21:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Malanding S. Jaiteh" <msjaiteh@mtu.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Cc: msjaiteh@mtu.edu
Subject: Re: ALD Conference
Message-ID: <199605071921.PAA22979@aspen>
Content-Type: text
Are we suggesting that the next civilian government would steer us in
the same direction as the jawara regime? Certainly an important issue
here is giving everyone the chance to contribute. My major concern is
that of lack of mechanism to regulate the present government should
they go astray. One must remember that even the most democratic
institution has some mechanisms to protect the society from being
abused- just incase. The institution of decrees to detain at the
Ministers will without challege by any court of law is a recipe for
creating environment for abuse. We can use jawara as example. Do
you think if we had an independent judiciary the death of a Minister
(accidental or not ) can go without a formal investigation? Should fear of
or suspicion of being against a government warrant ones detention for
months or years in the name of state security?
I am yet to convinced that anyone including Jammeh is immune to the
use or abuse of the regulations that are being in place. If we
disagree on that now, fine. I will suggest that we give them time, for
the problems of a military government always emerges from within. What
is sad is that we will have many more of those who because of their
existence who cannot go without taking sides. They are often the
victims. How many of such were lost in the 1994 counter coup incident?
we are yet to know.
The bottom line is that the problem with Jammeh's regime is that even
him stands the chance of being abused. evidence? The cases of Sadibou
and Sana!
I hope will come to a common ground.
Malanding
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 18:47:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: ABDOU <at137@columbia.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Cc: Tijan Senghore <TijanSenghore@kemet.com>
Subject: list problems
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.93L.960507184055.3989A-100000@labdien.cc.columbia.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Hi Sub managers,
The list is misbehaving again. It is bumping people off the list
without authorization. Can you please resubscribe Tijan Senghore and
Sarian Loum. Tijan's email address is below. TOny should have Sarian.
Also, if you are sending to the list, do not have a long subject
field. This creates problems. For eg : Subject: Economic figures should
be ok.
The address to be added :
TijanSenghore@kemet.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 17:40:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu>
To: Gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: REVIEW GAMBIA-L (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.92a.960507172926.4534B-100000@saul6.u.washington.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Abdou and Subscription managers, below is the latest enrollment list. If
you notice, Sarian Loum and Tijan are still listed. However, Sarian used
to have two email addresses, but the other one had disappeared which I
will add on again. Tijan Senghore's email address on the list seems to
match the one given by Abdou. So, the problem could be from his local
server. Maybe !
Thanks
Tony
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 17:15:46 PDT
From: University of Washington ListProcessor <listproc@u.washington.edu>
To: tloum@u.washington.edu
Subject: REVIEW GAMBIA-L
***
*** gambia-l@u.washington.edu: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List
***
*** Date created: Wed Jan 31 13:12:35 1996
--- The current list settings are as follows:
PRIVATE: subscriptions controlled by gambia-l@u.washington.ed ajanneh@pstcc.cc.tn.us sarian.loum@eng.sun.com gndow@auc.edu .
SEND: open to subscribers and owners only.
VISIBLE: the list shows up in listings.
PUBLISHED: the list is visible worldwide.
ARCHIVE: digests are archived in the gambia-l archive.
File spec is gambia-l.log%y%m%w
STATS: open to subscribers and owners only.
REVIEW: open to subscribers and owners only.
ARCHIVES: available to subscribers and owners only.
UNMODERATED: postings not controlled.
DIGEST: digests distributed weekly at 00:01 on Sundays
MESSAGE-LIMIT: max number of daily postings is 200.
FORWARD-REJECTS: no; all listproc-generated errors sent to sender.
REPLY-TO-LIST
AUTO-DELETE-SUBSCRIBERS: yes.
KEEP-RESENT-LINES: yes; Resent- header lines preserved.
SET-DISABLE: disabled SET options for non-owners are: conceal yes
DELIVERY-ERRORS: non-delivery reports are sent to at137@columbia.edu
REFLECTOR: no; To: and Cc: header lines converted to X-To: and X-Cc:.
OWNERS: tloum@u.washington.edu
--- Here is the current list of all subscribers:
nyada@geisnet.gn.apc.org Nyada Baldeh
momodou@inform-bbs.dk Momodou Camara
C.H.Allen@ed.ac.uk Chris Allen
EEESSULA@livjm.ac.uk SULAYMAN SUSO
L.Konteh-95@student.lut.ac.uk Lang Konteh
101573.1703@compuserve.com SANKUNG SAWO
100731.2004@CompuServe.com Lamin Jagne
101377.1007@Compuserve.com Maja Sonko
Bamba_Ngum@cch.com Bamba Ngum
MSarr91824@aol.com Mbaye Sarr
Wildkumba@aol.com Aji Kumba
Mansala@aol.com Modou Koley
SIREH@AOL.com Sarjo Bojang
Tuttyramou@aol.com Maila Touray
emdennis@ix.netcom.com Emery Dennis
Bngum@MSN.Com Baba Ngum
sarian.loum@eng.sun.com Sarian Loum
TijanSenghore@kemet.com Tijan Senghore
lamin.drammeh@bio.uib.no Lammin Drammeh
omar3@afrodite.kih.no Omar Gaye
FAMARAAS@amadeus.cmi.no Famara A Sanyang
binta@iuj.ac.jp Lamin Drammeh
ajanneh@pstcc.cc.tn.us Amadou Janneh
et121179@student.uq.edu.au Mustapha Jallow
sang_candebak_s.mendy@berea.edu Sang Mendy
at137@columbia.edu Abdourahman Touray
MBMARONG@STUDENTS.WISC.EDU MARONG MOSTAFA B.
ojah@students.wisc.edu Omar Jah
sjagne@auc.edu Siga Jagne
gndow@auc.edu LatJor Ndow
fung@HOOVER.STANFORD.EDU Karen Fung
tloum@u.washington.edu Anthony W Loum
SHAFTR@ucipm.ucdavis.edu Sammy Bruce Oliver
yj0001@jove.acs.unt.edu YAYA JALLOW
mubj1@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu Baba Jaiteh
JS-Fofana@wiu.edu Janko Fofana
B-Jaiteh@wiu.edu Baba Jaiteh
onjie@gemini.nlu.edu Omar Njie
onjie@socrates.nlu.edu Omar Njie
onjie@bacchus.nlu.edu OMAR NJIE
m-kebbeh@tamu.edu Mohammed Kebbeh
msjaiteh@mtu.edu Malanding Jaiteh
rcole@ced.berkeley.edu Roddie Cole
mbojang@music.transy.edu Mambuna Bojang
dott@usaid.gov Dana Ott
Total number of subscribers: 45 (45 shown here)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 20:40:27 -0400
From: Gabriel Ndow <gndow@auc.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: ALD CONFERENCE
Message-ID: <199605080040.UAA16722@auc.edu>
Greetings:
Here is the suggested theme and topcis for the ALD conference:
Theme: Establishing and Consolidating Democracy in The Gambia
Topics (in no order of preference):
The New Draft Constitution
The Commissions of Inquiry
Militarism and its Future Role in The Gambia
The Electoral Commission
Making Our Voices Heard
Your feedback please. On the issue of structuring the conference, perhaps we can
have different individuals lead the debates/discussions of the various topics,
(to keep it focused) and a moderator (you know, the person who introduces the
next speaker and politely tell the audience to quiet down then goes back to
sleep. I think I'll volunteer for that one - laugh).
LatJor
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 20:47:44 -0400
From: Gabriel Ndow <gndow@auc.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: New Member
Message-ID: <199605080047.UAA16736@auc.edu>
Greetings:
I would like to welcome Soffie to our discussion group. She is connected
via Mbye Sarr's address. Soffie is the current president of The Gambia
Foundation based in D.C. and is instrumental in ensuring that our proposed
conference actually takes place. We are very grateful for her efforts and
we look forward to her formal introduction to the group.
LatJor
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 20:07:07 -0500
From: mostafa jersey marong <mbmarong@students.wisc.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: ECONOMIC FIGURES
Message-ID: <199605080107.UAA15676@audumla.students.wisc.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Yeah, ".... the Gambian bereaucracy has been proven to be.......". What a
sweeping indictment. So there are no good ones? NO one involved in the
preparation of the document I quote should be trusted? Their is no good
one..? I bet there are a few honest and dedicated ones who chose to forgo
the good life of the West, sweating it out there just to see if they could
make an impact. Some members of this group come to mine. My hat's of to them
too. Too bad their is so much emotionalism, sentimentalism and demagoguery
in our midst. The attitude prevailing regarding this issue (social research
I see it) is at variance with academic propriety.Again in the spirit of
friendly debate!
HAIRA NING KAIRA!
At 09:26 PM 5/6/96 -0400, you wrote:
>HI,
> I am siding with Tony on the economic figures debate. The Gambian
>bureaucracy has been proven time and time again to be inefficient, inept,
>corrupt and just plain unprofessional. The magazine with its experts does
>not have to ask the governemnt for figures. You can cull that from
>currency exchanges, ship and air traffic, and etc. Remember how corrupt
>those bureaucrats are and ask yourself whether they are likely to, or are
>able to, report accurate figures.
> My real reason for writing, however, is to inform members
>interested in the establishment of democracy in Africa that there is an
>upcoming bill in the US Senate to impose economic sanctions against the
>"government" of Nigeria. This bill is sponsored by Nancy Kassebaum (R) of
>Kansas and is called "The Nigeria Democracy Act" . It would seize the
>assets that those soldiers looted from the Nigerian people, ban new
>investments in Nigeria, and impose travelling restrictions on the junta.
>So I would encourage you to call your representatives and ask them to vote
>for this bill. I also have the email addresses of some politicians on my
>Homepage at: http://www.cc.columbia.edu/~at137 . You can also write them
>using these addresses. It would be nice if you also mention that the
>criminals in The Gambia should also have their Swiss bank accounts seized.
>Mention how these people beat up a VOA correspondent and then deported him
>without any due process. This is the only way that we can bring pressure
>to bear on these murderers.
> Peace, and may justice and freedom rain down on the peoples of The
>Gambia and Nigeria
>
>*******************************************************************************
>A. TOURAY.
>(212) 749-7971
>MY URL ON THE WWW= http://www.cc.columbia.edu/~at137
>
>A FINITE IN A LAND OF INFINITY.
>SEEKING BUT THE REACHABLE.
>I WANDER AND I WONDER.
>ALL RESPITE IS FINAL.
>*******************************************************************************
>
>
------------------------------
Date: 08 May 1996 10:26:09 GMT
From: momodou@inform-bbs.dk (Momodou Camara)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: forwarding message
Message-ID: <2102325246.7961313@inform-bbs.dk>
Hi!
It is true, the appointment of Musa Bittay as Attorny General and Minister
of Justice
was terminated on the 23rd of April.
Momodou Camara
--- OffRoad 1.9n registered to Momodou Camara
**************************************
Sent via Inform-BBS
-Denmark's leading alternative network
Information: info@inform-bbs.dk
**************************************
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 May 1996 09:05:40 -0400
From: TijanSenghore@kemet.com (Tijan Senghore)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu (GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List)
Subject: Re: REVIEW GAMBIA-L (fwd)
Message-ID: <1996May08.070341.1724.31273@smtpgw.kemet.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Tony and Abdou,
I'm back on. Thanks!
Tijan
Abdou and Subscription managers, below is the latest enrollment list. If
you notice, Sarian Loum and Tijan are still listed. However, Sarian used
to have two email addresses, but the other one had disappeared which I
will add on again. Tijan Senghore's email address on the list seems to
match the one given by Abdou. So, the problem could be from his local
server. Maybe !
Thanks
Tony
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 17:15:46 PDT
From: University of Washington ListProcessor <listproc@u.washington.edu>
To: tloum@u.washington.edu
Subject: REVIEW GAMBIA-L
***
*** gambia-l@u.washington.edu: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing
List
***
*** Date created: Wed Jan 31 13:12:35 1996
--- The current list settings are as follows:
PRIVATE: subscriptions controlled by gambia-l@u.washington.ed
ajanneh@pstcc.cc.tn.us sarian.loum@eng.sun.com gndow@auc.edu .
SEND: open to subscribers and owners only.
VISIBLE: the list shows up in listings.
PUBLISHED: the list is visible worldwide.
ARCHIVE: digests are archived in the gambia-l archive.
File spec is gambia-l.log%y%m%w
STATS: open to subscribers and owners only.
REVIEW: open to subscribers and owners only.
ARCHIVES: available to subscribers and owners only.
UNMODERATED: postings not controlled.
DIGEST: digests distributed weekly at 00:01 on Sundays
MESSAGE-LIMIT: max number of daily postings is 200.
FORWARD-REJECTS: no; all listproc-generated errors sent to sender.
REPLY-TO-LIST
AUTO-DELETE-SUBSCRIBERS: yes.
KEEP-RESENT-LINES: yes; Resent- header lines preserved.
SET-DISABLE: disabled SET options for non-owners are: conceal yes
DELIVERY-ERRORS: non-delivery reports are sent to at137@columbia.edu
REFLECTOR: no; To: and Cc: header lines converted to X-To: and X-Cc:.
OWNERS: tloum@u.washington.edu
--- Here is the current list of all subscribers:
nyada@geisnet.gn.apc.org Nyada Baldeh
momodou@inform-bbs.dk Momodou Camara
C.H.Allen@ed.ac.uk Chris Allen
EEESSULA@livjm.ac.uk SULAYMAN SUSO
L.Konteh-95@student.lut.ac.uk Lang Konteh
101573.1703@compuserve.com SANKUNG SAWO
100731.2004@CompuServe.com Lamin Jagne
101377.1007@Compuserve.com Maja Sonko
Bamba_Ngum@cch.com Bamba Ngum
MSarr91824@aol.com Mbaye Sarr
Wildkumba@aol.com Aji Kumba
Mansala@aol.com Modou Koley
SIREH@AOL.com Sarjo Bojang
Tuttyramou@aol.com Maila Touray
emdennis@ix.netcom.com Emery Dennis
Bngum@MSN.Com Baba Ngum
sarian.loum@eng.sun.com Sarian Loum
TijanSenghore@kemet.com Tijan Senghore
lamin.drammeh@bio.uib.no Lammin Drammeh
omar3@afrodite.kih.no Omar Gaye
FAMARAAS@amadeus.cmi.no Famara A Sanyang
binta@iuj.ac.jp Lamin Drammeh
ajanneh@pstcc.cc.tn.us Amadou Janneh
et121179@student.uq.edu.au Mustapha Jallow
sang_candebak_s.mendy@berea.edu Sang Mendy
at137@columbia.edu Abdourahman Touray
MBMARONG@STUDENTS.WISC.EDU MARONG MOSTAFA B.
ojah@students.wisc.edu Omar Jah
sjagne@auc.edu Siga Jagne
gndow@auc.edu LatJor Ndow
fung@HOOVER.STANFORD.EDU Karen Fung
tloum@u.washington.edu Anthony W Loum
SHAFTR@ucipm.ucdavis.edu Sammy Bruce Oliver
yj0001@jove.acs.unt.edu YAYA JALLOW
mubj1@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu Baba Jaiteh
JS-Fofana@wiu.edu Janko Fofana
B-Jaiteh@wiu.edu Baba Jaiteh
onjie@gemini.nlu.edu Omar Njie
onjie@socrates.nlu.edu Omar Njie
onjie@bacchus.nlu.edu OMAR NJIE
m-kebbeh@tamu.edu Mohammed Kebbeh
msjaiteh@mtu.edu Malanding Jaiteh
rcole@ced.berkeley.edu Roddie Cole
mbojang@music.transy.edu Mambuna Bojang
dott@usaid.gov Dana Ott
Total number of subscribers: 45 (45 shown here)
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Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 17:40:17 -0700 (PDT)
Reply-To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Sender: GAMBIA-L-owner@u.washington.edu
Precedence: bulk
From: "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu>
To: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List"
<gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: REVIEW GAMBIA-L (fwd)
Mime-Version: 1.0
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 11:37:25 -0500
From: mostafa jersey marong <mbmarong@students.wisc.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: ALD CONFERENCE
Message-ID: <199605081637.LAA26979@audumla.students.wisc.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
The theme is good. BRAVO.
At 08:40 PM 5/7/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Greetings:
>
>Here is the suggested theme and topcis for the ALD conference:
>
>Theme: Establishing and Consolidating Democracy in The Gambia
>
>Topics (in no order of preference):
>
>The New Draft Constitution
>The Commissions of Inquiry
>Militarism and its Future Role in The Gambia
>The Electoral Commission
>Making Our Voices Heard
>
>
>Your feedback please. On the issue of structuring the conference, perhaps
we can
>have different individuals lead the debates/discussions of the various topics,
>(to keep it focused) and a moderator (you know, the person who introduces the
>next speaker and politely tell the audience to quiet down then goes back to
>sleep. I think I'll volunteer for that one - laugh).
>
>LatJor
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 13:01:07 -0500
From: sjagne@auc.edu (siga jagne)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: ALD CONFERENCE
Message-ID: <v01530500adb68d63797e@[144.125.224.51]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Greetings:
>
>Here is the suggested theme and topcis for the ALD conference:
>
>Theme: Establishing and Consolidating Democracy in The Gambia
>
>Topics (in no order of preference):
>
>The New Draft Constitution
>The Commissions of Inquiry
>Militarism and its Future Role in The Gambia
>The Electoral Commission
>Making Our Voices Heard
>
>
>Your feedback please. On the issue of structuring the conference, perhaps
>we can
>have different individuals lead the debates/discussions of the various topics,
>(to keep it focused) and a moderator (you know, the person who introduces the
>next speaker and politely tell the audience to quiet down then goes back to
>sleep. I think I'll volunteer for that one - laugh).
>
>LatJor
Hi Latjorr and others since I will be away at a conference in Puerto Rico
at the same time the Gambia conference is going on; however, I want to
suggest, in addition to the panels already proposed by Latjor, that we have
a panel on, The Status of Women in the New Gambia." This is of course
assuming that there is an election in October. I believe that amidst the
clamor for a conference the muted Gambian woman should be given a chance to
be heard. I know that Soffie is helping with the logistics of the
conference, but I also strongly urge you all to provide apanel that will be
a forum for women's voices. If I can get something ready for the coference
I will send it via Latjor.
Another point I want to make is, actually rather it is a question
of logistics. What is the criteria to allow non-Gambians on the Gambian
chat line and how do we know where this information ends up and how it
might affect those of us who are authoring opinions? I am raising the
issue, not out of fear but out of a right to privacy. The concern is even
greater for me when the people cxoncerned work for governments and research
organizations. Again what happens to the information, especially when it
is a sensitive kind of information? Call me paranoid, but my past
experiences have taught me lessons I will rather forget. Awaiting a reply.
Talk to you Inshallah
Siga Fatima
------------------------------
Date: 08 May 96 13:10:41 PDT
From: SHAFTR@ucipm.ucdavis.edu
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: re: REVIEW GAMBIA-L (fwd)
Message-ID: <9605082008.AA21306@mx5.u.washington.edu>
Tony,
Your list is missing Dr. Oumar Ndongo and Mbaye (Wm.
Baker) who subcribes from Saudi Arabia. Somebody needs to
look at o it more closely.
------------------------------
Date: 08 May 96 14:10:39 PDT
From: SHAFTR@ucipm.ucdavis.edu
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: re: REVIEW GAMBIA-L (fwd)
Message-ID: <9605082108.AA29909@mx5.u.washington.edu>
A perusal of the latest list of subscribers
to Gambia-l and Siga's last posting concerning
privacy issues and who's listening/ reading our
opinions, serves as a backdrop for the following
questions and suggestions:
1. What do we do with subscribers who have never
introduced themselves to the group although they
have been on the list forever? My suggestion is
that if they cannot contribute to the list by writing
something, then they need to be bumped off. Can
we agree on this with no exceptions?
2. Subscribers from Banjul - At some point we
thought these guys would be feeding us information
about what was happening at home. We don't expect
these guys to give us their political opinions but
at least they should be able to report sometimes on
current happenings. To this day, not a single
contribution from the Banjul crowd to this effect.
Thus, there is some amount of unease about this group.
Again, my feeling is that if these people on the
ground can't furnish us with information, they don't
need to be on the list.
3. Are subscribers being added to Gambia-l unbeknown
to the rest of the us? viz- don't recall a Sang Mendy
ever being introduced to the list. Please correct me
if I am wrong.
4. Did we agree at some point that new members first
introduce themselves before they start receiving
postings from Gambia-l? I think we should to solve
the problem of introductions as well as allay fears
regarding privacy/security/confidentiality.
We need to get these nagging problems resolved
pronto. Jah Gen Jeff!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 17:35:29 -0400
From: Gabriel Ndow <gndow@auc.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: re: REVIEW GAMBIA-L (fwd)
Message-ID: <199605082135.RAA18612@auc.edu>
I agree that greater enforcement is the rules is needed. Here is my proposal
to begin dealing with it:
1. No new members should be added to the list until they have submitted their
intro one of the subscription managers to be forwarded to the rest of the
group.
2. Current members who have yet to submit an intro. should be informed by the
subscription manager responsible to send in an intro. immediately, less they be
removed by next tuesday.
3. If a current member is removed, the responsible subscription manager should
send the member a request for his/her intro. to be forwarded to the group
before being admitted back.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 17:36:41 -0400
From: Gabriel Ndow <gndow@auc.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: re: REVIEW GAMBIA-L (fwd)
Message-ID: <199605082136.RAA18615@auc.edu>
I just sent a rules/guidelines proposal but forgot to state my name
on it.
LatJor
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 15:26:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu>
To: Gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Nationality
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.92a.960508151838.12464E-100000@saul5.u.washington.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
I am thanking Siga for her added suggestion on the list of agenda items
for the conference and also for her concern for the inclusion of non
Gambians in this list. I will
briefly address the latter. Before your enrollment, we had discussed this
issue of whether non Gambians should be included in the list. It was
overwhelmly agreed that anybody with an interest in The Gambia can join
regardless of their non Gambian nationality status. However, on the issues
of the
list configuration, we decided to have it controlled meaning that one of
the subscription managers will have to subscribe somebody rather the
reverse situation, in most listservs where anybody can subscribe
themselves. In addition to that we agreed that anybody on the list will be
unable to conceal his/her identity. Thus if you want to review the list
membership, just send the review command to listproc@u.washington.edu and
you will receive the entire membership list. The thinking behind this was
to prevent government agents/spies from lurking as had happened in the
Sierra Leonean listserv when most members were not aware that the then
military government NPRC was peeping on Leonenet until they came out and
made the announcement which sent shock waves and anger among many Sierra
Leoneans in the list. In our case, even if Jawara and or Yaya Jammeh want
to subscribe, they have to come through our subscription managers and will
thus be unable to be secretly spying on us without our knowledge. If
others have opinions on this issue, please feel free to share them.
Thanks
Tony
========================================================================
Anthony W Loum tloum@u.washington.edu
Supervisor, Business Administration Library 206-543-4360 voice
100 Balmer Hall 206-685-9392 fax
University of Washington
Box 353200
Seattle, Wa.98195-3200
=========================================================================
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 May 1996 19:35:54 -0500 (EST)
From: Amadou Scattred Janneh <AJANNEH@pstcc.cc.tn.us>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: ALD CONFERENCE
Message-ID: <01I4H3HLMHFI000ZP2@PSTCC6.PSTCC.CC.TN.US>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Siga:
In fact I was hoping we could get you on the panel. I sent e-mail to
LatJor on the matter just today. The role and plight of women must be
incorporated into our deliberations. Forgive us for not doing so in
the first place.
Amadou.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 May 1996 19:40:24 -0500 (EST)
From: Amadou Scattred Janneh <AJANNEH@pstcc.cc.tn.us>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: re: REVIEW GAMBIA-L (fwd)
Message-ID: <01I4H3N6GNMY000ZP2@PSTCC6.PSTCC.CC.TN.US>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Tony/Abdou:
What's removing members off the list? Should we change passwords?
What can be done?
Amadou
(desperate sub manager)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 16:59:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu>
To: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: re: REVIEW GAMBIA-L (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.92a.960508165440.30252B-100000@saul7.u.washington.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
I am not too sure the reason for that. However, I will check with our
computing people here at UW for a possible remedy. The only problem is
that it takes a long time for them to respond to such requests at times.
My suspicion ( just a speculation ) is that some of these problems
are emanating from the subscribers' local servers.
Thanks
Tony
On Wed, 8 May 1996, Amadou Scattred Janneh wrote:
> Tony/Abdou:
>
> What's removing members off the list? Should we change passwords?
> What can be done?
>
> Amadou
> (desperate sub manager)
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 22:02:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Malanding S. Jaiteh" <msjaiteh@mtu.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: REVIEW GAMBIA-L (fwd)
Message-ID: <199605090202.WAA23764@aspen>
Content-Type: text
>
> Tony/Abdou:
>
> What's removing members off the list? Should we change passwords?
> What can be done?
>
> Amadou
> (desperate sub manager)
>
Can we know those who are frequently experiencing the problem.
Perhaps it might help in isolating it.
Just a computer dummy's idea to solving the matter.
God bless ya all.
Malanding
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 11:43:34 GMT+1
From: "Famara A. Sanyang" <FAMARAAS@amadeus.cmi.no>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: re: REVIEW GAMBIA-L (fwd)
Message-ID: <264C21E4AAE@amadeus.cmi.no>
Hei folks,
PRIVACY AND THE IDENTITY OF LIST MENBERS
Concerning the issue of privacy and identity of the members on the
list. Implementing a suggestion from your end, (I think
it was from Morro) will partly if not totally solve the "problem".
Morro suggested the compilation of a brief bio on everyone. That we
individually send basic information on ourselves, for example, where
in the Gambia we come from, schools attended, field of study,
occupation etc ect., to the List Administrator.
This list could be send to the interested parties.
I understand that some people are uneasy, because of their
experiences. This bio will not only be useful for "security" reasons,
it will also be easier for members to send direct questions to people
whom they know could help.
Shalom.
Famara.
experiences.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 10:57:12 -0500
From: mostafa jersey marong <mbmarong@students.wisc.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: ALD CONFERENCE (fwd)
Message-ID: <199605091557.KAA95552@audumla.students.wisc.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Tony, I am interested in doing some follow up research on Gambia government
finances. I will be most grateful if you could give me the reference ie the
EIU publication you cited, the date of the issue, the article title and
author. I am refering to the article in which it is said that between 75 and
80 percent of Gambia gov't revenue come from aid.
ABDOU, can you kindly please help in the same manner as above. Columbia
being a World renowned institution may have titles on Gambia government
finances. I am especially interested in this for a research I am doing. I
know it is a busy time for you all so I dont mind waiting for 3 or so weeks.
I will take anything; book, journal or magazine article, periodical, IMF or
World Bank publication, Economist Intelligence Report etc etc as long as you
give me title, author,issue name and number, date of pulication, publisher
etc. Thanks in advance for your cooperation. PM 5/6/96 -0700, you wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 17:31:34 -0700 (PDT)
>From: "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu>
>To: "Malanding S. Jaiteh" <msjaiteh@mtu.edu>
>Subject: Re: ALD CONFERENCE
>
>
>
>Hi Malanding, that is fine. This is what this forum is all about.
>Politely agreeing, disagreeing and debating the issues which can
>ultimately
>lead to better understanding and exchanging of ideas. Although, I still
>stand my original position on the figures being discussed, I will not
>interprete
>this as disrespect on me by both Mostafa and yourself and hopefully vice
>versa.
> Thanks
> Tony
>
>
>On Mon, 6 May 1996, Malanding S. Jaiteh wrote:
>
>> Well Tony, I am tempted to disagree with you on figures at debate
>> here. Certainly we cannot claim that the GAmbia can stand by itself
>> without aid of one kind or another. However, for academic reason we
>> should not accept figure that do not reflect the realities. After all
>> where ddid this world reknown institute obtained the figures? Could they
>> be estimates based on 1990 or so figures? It is worth asking a question
>> or two before one takes them for their face value.
>> Just so caution.
>> malanding
>>
>>
>
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 14:30:27 -0500
From: sjagne@auc.edu (siga jagne)
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: ALD CONFERENCE
Message-ID: <v01530500adb7f2ba5913@[144.125.224.52]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Siga:
>In fact I was hoping we could get you on the panel. I sent e-mail to
>LatJor on the matter just today. The role and plight of women must be
>incorporated into our deliberations. Forgive us for not doing so in
>the first place.
>
>Amadou.
Hi Amadou and all net participants,
I have to first of all apologies for my typos on my message. As an
english teacher who requires nothing short of perfection from her students
that was a poorly written note. I am awake today though(smile). Amadou to
be honest with you I would rather be in Washington for the conference, but
I have known for a year now that I will be at this conference in Puerto
Rico. As I have mentioned, I will work on sending some written comments
through LatJor. As I had also mentioned before I will be moving back to
Gambia, I am tired of paying taxes here and being stressed out by urban
living. I promise you all that after two weeks of just staring at the
ocean I will become active in the affairs of the country. I am taking an
extended academic leave to work on two book projects one of which is
already at the publishers. I will let you all know when it comes out.
In the meantime if people have suggestions of how I can help from
the Gambia end let me know. I should be staying on the list and hopefully
will not have problems accessing the net. Amadou you all know that you can
forget the women,but I will not. I think it was a serious oversight. If I
have time before my conference maybe I can even share my paper on the net.
I am grateful that people have been responding positively to my query.
We have to learn our lessons of colonialism, "postcolonialism," and
militarism. We are principled and believe in our convictions, but that
does not mean that we can't proceed with caution. I have my opinions and
will voice them publicly, but what I want to share with my people is just
for them. To paraphrase Aminata Sow Fall(I do not have the text in front
of me), a Senegalese writer: "when I write, I always leave those Wolof
words in the texts that hold the key to the meaning of my texts. This is
done for those Wolof speakers who will decode and understand what I am
talking about."
Peace
Siga Fatima
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 May 96 20:35:32 BST
From: L Konteh <L.Konteh-95@student.lut.ac.uk>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: ALD CONFERENCE
Message-ID: <9605091935.AA01161@hpl.lut.ac.uk>
Forwarded message:
>From ellk Tue May 7 23:30:31 1996
Subject: Re: ALD CONFERENCE
To: tloum@u.washington.edu
Date: Tue, 7 May 96 23:30:31 BST
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.3.92a.960506085329.5075A-100000@saul1.u.washington.edu>; from "A. Loum" at May 6, 96 11:39 am
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL0 (LUT)]
Hi Tony and Malanding,
I would like to respond to both of you. First, Malanding, Yes, i agree we
should not go into personalities, but to illustrate a point one has to quote
examples for clarity and completeness. In addition to that, i think there
should be a clear distinction between an expressed opinion and what really
transpired.
Tony,
I think your own prejudice and hatred for Jawara and his former regime
(something you are 100% entitle to) has overclouded what i would consider
your fine mind.
Really to say that there was no freedom of speech and what we had was pseudo
democracy or a farce is really laughable and quite frankly a
misrepresentation of history. This will be clear if you can kindly
do the follwing:
1. Please refer back to Foroyaa's publications and the activities of PDOIS
during the previous regime.
2. Refer also to Sana Manneh's publications. In fact that guy made series of
allegations against 4 of Jawara's ministers. 3 out of the 4 challenged him in
the courts while the Justice minister sued him for criminal libel. As far as i
can remember nothing came out of it ( i stand to be corrected on this last
sentence just in case). Personally i think jawara made a big error of judgement
by letting those people stay in cabinet and even promoting one while their
cases were heard in court.
What we had in the Gambia may not be all that perfect, but again there is no
perfect system anywhere in the world. You rhetorical question in which you
answered yourself with a negative is not as straight forward as you put it.
3.On that point i will request you to find out the percentage share of vote both
the British prime minister under John Major and the US President Clinton had
in their respective elections to power. Also find out the voter turnout in
both cases. You will without doubt found out they both had less than 50% of
popular vote on less than 70% voter turnout. Overall one can safely say that
at least 60% of elegible voters did not vote for them or voted for someone
else. Because the majority of the population didn't support them does not mean
a flaw in the democratic proccess. All that matters is that those who decided
to vote for them formed the majority. So i don't think you will even with a
faint imagination suggest that the military in both countries should step in
because the process is not 'TRUELY'democratic.
With regards to the Gambia Jawara had just over 50% of popular vote. Some
political commentators even suggested that if the opposition were united he
could have lost the last election. But the real point of contention is that
individuals do win under the opposition banner; the tragedy of course is they
do cross-carpet after sometime. Typical examples are: Jahumpa, M.C. Cham, M.C.
Jallow, Dodou M M Taal, Michael Baldeh.... the list is endless. So, i would
say the problem we had was mainly due to those individuals who out of
disregard for those who voted for them or because of their own greed.
I hope you find these points persuasive enough. I am sorry if you should find
some points bit distasteful. I shall be quiet abit as i have my exams in
two weeks' time.
Have a nice conference.
Lang.
> As a matter of principle, I
> do not believe military takeover of truly democratic governments. Please
> note my words here" TRULY ". My opinion is that DEMOCRACY as we apply it
> in the western context does not exist in Africa and Jawara's government
> was not an exception. All the variables inherent in western democracies
> are thus lacking in our continent. Let us take an example, are the
> democracies practised in The United States and Britain etc equivalent to
> that we enjoyed under Jawara. Did we enjoy the same basic individual
> rights and freedoms of expressions etc under Jawara ? To be honest, the
> answer is a resounding NO. Therefore, it was not a true democracy. It was
> rather a farce with the democracy label attach to it. Note this, the same
> thing can be said of Yaya Jammeh as Lamin Jammeh correctly pointed out
> that both governments had their defects. Based on my above reasoning it
> was a pseudo democracy and thus worthy of a coup d'etat. The only problem
> here is that Jammeh has been there too long and should have abdicated the
> power long time ago. I am just as eager as all of you to go back to
> civilian rule with Jammeh/AFPRC returning to the barracks. That is why I
> am
> very supportive of the conference that Latjorr is trying to organize so
> that we can help and do whatever it takes to remove the AFPRC and have a
> civilian rule that will hopefully exercise the real tenets of democracy.
> Abdou and Lang, so our common ground is that based on our positions, you
> should not be perceived as supporter of Jawara, while I am neither a
> supporter of Jammeh/AFPRC.
> Thanks
> Tony
>
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 12:46:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu>
To: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: ALD CONFERENCE (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.92a.960509124513.13399B-100000@saul3.u.washington.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Hi Mostafa, I will find the requested citation(s) sometimes and send it to
you.
Thanks
Tony
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 17:33:34 -0500 (CDT)
From: Yaya Jallow <yj0001@jove.acs.unt.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Cc: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: ALD CONFERENCE
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.960509171911.21211A-100000@jove.acs.unt.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Thu, 9 May 1996, siga jagne wrote:
> >Siga:
> >In fact I was hoping we could get you on the panel. I sent e-mail to
> >LatJor on the matter just today. The role and plight of women must be
> >incorporated into our deliberations. Forgive us for not doing so in
> >the first place.
> >
> >Amadou.
>
>
>
> Hi Amadou and all net participants,
>
> I have to first of all apologies for my typos on my message. As an
> english teacher who requires nothing short of perfection from her students
> that was a poorly written note. I am awake today though(smile). Amadou to
> be honest with you I would rather be in Washington for the conference, but
> I have known for a year now that I will be at this conference in Puerto
> Rico. As I have mentioned, I will work on sending some written comments
> through LatJor. As I had also mentioned before I will be moving back to
> Gambia, I am tired of paying taxes here and being stressed out by urban
> living. I promise you all that after two weeks of just staring at the
> ocean I will become active in the affairs of the country. I am taking an
> extended academic leave to work on two book projects one of which is
> already at the publishers. I will let you all know when it comes out.
> In the meantime if people have suggestions of how I can help from
> the Gambia end let me know. I should be staying on the list and hopefully
> will not have problems accessing the net. Amadou you all know that you can
> forget the women,but I will not. I think it was a serious oversight. If I
> have time before my conference maybe I can even share my paper on the net.
>
> I am grateful that people have been responding positively to my query.
> We have to learn our lessons of colonialism, "postcolonialism," and
> militarism. We are principled and believe in our convictions, but that
> does not mean that we can't proceed with caution. I have my opinions and
> will voice them publicly, but what I want to share with my people is just
> for them. To paraphrase Aminata Sow Fall(I do not have the text in front
> of me), a Senegalese writer: "when I write, I always leave those Wolof
> words in the texts that hold the key to the meaning of my texts. This is
> done for those Wolof speakers who will decode and understand what I am
> talking about."
>
> Peace
>
> Siga Fatima
>
>
Hullo Fellas and Gals
The above was quite an interesting note. There is no question
that women input is definitely needed at the conference and matters
generally dealing with the Gambian situation. While I do not intend to
overload the conference participants with agendas, I believe that a
discussion centering on women circumcision viz-a-viz the Gambia ought to
be incorporated in the conference agenda. While some may observe that
this is not directly related to the immediate political quagmire facing the
nation, it can be discussed in the light of sociopolitical development. I
think some of us Africans have contaracted the debate on this matter
away to western women. It is time we bring it back to our own "BANTABA".
Thanks and Bye.
Yaya
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 17:55:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: Oumar Ndongo <ondongo@benfranklin.hnet.uci.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Cc: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: ALD CONFERENCE
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.960509171814.8211A-100000@benfranklin.hnet.uci.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Hi,Yaya,
I am lucky I am not talking to Yaya Jammeh but to Yaya Jalloh,Please,
don't get into those Western Women's gossips about African sexualities
and sexual practices.Our nations have bigger challenges concerning women
than what some sarcastically refer to as "genital mutilation".
Sorry, I am being abrupt but it's a kind of aversion.This is one voice
against.
Siga,
I strongly believe that our actions could go beyond our families,work
places and countries and yet understand perfectly your concerns.I am
Senegalese and I am teaching Mark Twain, the same way,Aminata Sow Fall is
taught to American kids.Use the list when the list can help.Some of us
are not Gambians but can be your allies(or your enemies).Articles in
Senegalese newspapers have undoubtedly impact on the campaign,if any.
I totally agree with the idea that one has got to be cautious.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 03:01:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: ABDOU <at137@columbia.edu>
To: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: house cleaning & other things
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.93L.960510022640.21040A-100000@kiaora.cc.columbia.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Hi,
I was engaged in a series of hellish exams hence my absence from
the list for the past few days. I hope this excuses my lack of responses
to queries from Amadou and Mostafa.
Firstly, regarding the deletion of members from the list, the
problem is that the list is configured for "Auto-delete" . What this
does is that it automatically deletes some people using some criteria.
For example if they are not contributing or it cannot reach them. I
suspect the system at UW uses the latter criterion. So Tony, just say no
in the "Auto-delete " section of the list. I have not looked at the
problem in detail but this seems to be the problem.
About privacy, I think that the list of members should only be
available to people who have reason to work with the technical aspects of
the list. At the moment, any member can request and get the list of all
members. I think this is unwise in light of the unease expressed by
members. If one of us wants the list of members, they can ask for it from
Tony. People should also have the option of refusing to have their names
given to any third party. This will allay the unease and at the same time
allow people to look at the list to see who is in it.
About the sleepers in the list, I am particularly sensitive to this
issue. I remember toiling to get Sang Mendy back on the list and wasting
a lot time. The guy never contributes ; for whatever reason. For people
like that, I think they should be taken off the list because they take up
a lot of resources and their presence is not beneficial to the membership.
Another prime candidate for removal is Nyada Baldeh as we have never
gotten
anything from him. He also takes up space and resources and does not
contribute.
We surely cannot, neither should we, legislate interest in the
list. We should however require that all prospective members give a bio
before they can join the list (as Famara said). And Siga, whatever you
say is prospectively available to the rest of the of the world. Of course
what isn't ? We should also send a note to all new members telling them
that what they say can be made available to third parties. I think this
is only fair to people who would have otherwise been circumspect in what
they say.
Mostafa, regrading access to library resources at Columbia, you
can access a digital library that Columbia has over the internet. From
the web, either go to "http;//www.cc.columbia.edu" or you can access it
from my homepage; the URL is listed below. The library you need is called
CLIO. The School of International and Public Affairs also has an extensive
library. From either libraries, you will be able to get author, title,
etc. If it does not work for you, tell me (I am a little free now) .
Bye for now,
-Abdou.
*******************************************************************************
A. TOURAY.
(212) 749-7971
MY URL ON THE WWW= http://www.cc.columbia.edu/~at137
A FINITE IN A LAND OF INFINITY.
SEEKING BUT THE REACHABLE.
I WANDER AND I WONDER.
ALL RESPITE IS FINAL.
*******************************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 08:35:19 -0500 (EST)
From: Amadou Scattred Janneh <AJANNEH@pstcc.cc.tn.us>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: ALD CONFERENCE
Message-ID: <01I4J909UXUM000IHO@PSTCC6.PSTCC.CC.TN.US>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Gambia-l:
It's encouraging that the list of topics is expanding gradually; and I
hope we won't have any problems "recruiting" panelists for the discussions.
We may have a publication of some sort before the Atlanta meeting. The
articles should focus on the theme of Establishing and Consolidating Democracy
in The Gambia and every effort will be made to project the wide range of
perspectives on the issues.
Examples of paper topics:
An Assessment of the Transition Process
The Military and Its Role in The Second Republic
Disengaging The Military From Politics
The Electoral Process and The Independent Electoral Commission
The Commissions of Inquiry
Two Years of Militarism: An Objective Analysis of AFPRC Rule in The Gambia
The Role of Women in The Gambia's Political Development
The Economic Impact of Military Rule
Preventing Coups in The Second Republic
The Draft Constitution
Continuity and Change in The Gambia
and so on....
Add any areas that I may have overlooked. These are simply examples.
Perhaps 5000 words would be an ideal "max" for the contributions.
Names for the publication?
Other ideas welcome.
"A bientot!"
Amadou
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 13:25:43 -0500 (CDT)
From: Yaya Jallow <yj0001@jove.acs.unt.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Cc: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: ALD CONFERENCE
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.960510125145.18477A-100000@jove.acs.unt.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Thu, 9 May 1996, Oumar Ndongo wrote:
> Hi,Yaya,
> I am lucky I am not talking to Yaya Jammeh but to Yaya Jalloh,Please,
> don't get into those Western Women's gossips about African sexualities
> and sexual practices.Our nations have bigger challenges concerning women
> than what some sarcastically refer to as "genital mutilation".
> Sorry, I am being abrupt but it's a kind of aversion.This is one voice
> against.
> Siga,
> I strongly believe that our actions could go beyond our families,work
> places and countries and yet understand perfectly your concerns.I am
> Senegalese and I am teaching Mark Twain, the same way,Aminata Sow Fall is
> taught to American kids.Use the list when the list can help.Some of us
> are not Gambians but can be your allies(or your enemies).Articles in
> Senegalese newspapers have undoubtedly impact on the campaign,if any.
> I totally agree with the idea that one has got to be cautious.
>
Hullo Oumar Ndongo,
Those so called Western gossips are the exact reasons why we need a
debate on this topic. I would personally be interested in getting the
African woman's perspective on that. If you noticed, I did not employ the
term "genital mutilation" because I'm not sure if it is or if it is not.
But I'm sure it will soon enter the realm of public policy for African
goverments and policy makers will be deliberating on the issue. So I don't
think we can simply dismiss it as just "Western gossips".
Just another thought
'Au Revoir'
Yaya
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 12:42:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: Oumar Ndongo <ondongo@benfranklin.hnet.uci.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Cc: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: ALD CONFERENCE
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.960510114812.26304A-100000@benfranklin.hnet.uci.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Hi, mboka,
Just to comment on Amadou's latest posting related to a tentative
list of topics to be addressed,I find that there is an overemphasis
on"the Military"( five points on the eight are closely connected with the
Military).This ,perhaps, needs rethinking to have two headings in that
area of concern.I think it would be interesting to examine democracy and
democratic practices during the first republic and even before to draw on
that heritage to develop new strategies. Moreover, examining new ways of
political party formation in light of your neighburs' experiences can be
useful.A critique of different multi party systems seems
worthwhile.Education is also an area worth looking at.Finally,i also
suggest that broad heading:The Gambia and the challenges of the 21st
century.
Thanks for allowing that voice from the outside.
Oumar\Senegal
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 21:44:12 GMT+1
From: "Famara A. Sanyang" <FAMARAAS@amadeus.cmi.no>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: ALD CONFERENCE
Message-ID: <286C5755E2D@amadeus.cmi.no>
> On Thu, 9 May 1996, Oumar Ndongo wrote:
>
> > Hi,Yaya,
> > I am lucky I am not talking to Yaya Jammeh but to Yaya Jalloh,Please,
> > don't get into those Western Women's gossips about African sexualities
> > and sexual practices.Our nations have bigger challenges concerning women
> > than what some sarcastically refer to as "genital mutilation".
> > Sorry, I am being abrupt but it's a kind of aversion.This is one voice
> > against.
> > Siga,
> > I strongly believe that our actions could go beyond our families,work
> > places and countries and yet understand perfectly your concerns.I am
> > Senegalese and I am teaching Mark Twain, the same way,Aminata Sow Fall is
> > taught to American kids.Use the list when the list can help.Some of us
> > are not Gambians but can be your allies(or your enemies).Articles in
> > Senegalese newspapers have undoubtedly impact on the campaign,if any.
> > I totally agree with the idea that one has got to be cautious.
> >
>
>
> Hullo Oumar Ndongo,
> Those so called Western gossips are the exact reasons why we need a
> debate on this topic. I would personally be interested in getting the
> African woman's perspective on that. If you noticed, I did not employ the
> term "genital mutilation" because I'm not sure if it is or if it is not.
> But I'm sure it will soon enter the realm of public policy for African
> goverments and policy makers will be deliberating on the issue. So I don't
> think we can simply dismiss it as just "Western gossips".
> Just another thought
>
> 'Au Revoir'
> Yaya
>
Well written Yaya, I think it is time, we start to look into certain
practices which are being sustained in the name of "tradition" and
"culture". We should remember that, these traditions are
human constructions. We should not allow ourselves to be slaves of
tradition.
Can Omar Ndongo, tell us, why he think, this important issue should
not be discussed. May be he knows something about the practice which
we don't.
I can understand if you cannot take this up as a main topic of
discussion at the conference, but, the point is that one should not
"belittle" the importance of the issue.
Shalom.
Famara.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 13:15:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu>
To: Gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Economic figures
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.92a.960510130741.21714A-100000@saul1.u.washington.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Hi Mostafa, in compliance to your request for citations regarding the
figures of The Gambia's external aid, here they are :
Country Report: Senegal, The Gambia, Mauritania, 4th quarter 1994,
Page 22, and 3rd quarter 1995, Page 17.
Let me suggest that if you still dispute those figures, please
contact the publishers and point it out to them. Here is their address:
Economist Intelligence Unit
15 Regent Street
London SW1Y 4LR
United Kingdom
Thanks
Tony
========================================================================
Anthony W Loum tloum@u.washington.edu
Supervisor, Business Administration Library 206-543-4360 voice
100 Balmer Hall 206-685-9392 fax
University of Washington
Box 353200
Seattle, Wa.98195-3200
=========================================================================
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 23:04:40 GMT+1
From: "Famara A. Sanyang" <FAMARAAS@amadeus.cmi.no>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: ALD CONFERENCE
Message-ID: <2881D5550A0@amadeus.cmi.no>
> Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 08:35:19 -0500 (EST)
> Reply-to: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
> From: Amadou Scattred Janneh <AJANNEH@pstcc.cc.tn.us>
> To: GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: ALD CONFERENCE
> Gambia-l:
>
> It's encouraging that the list of topics is expanding gradually; and I
> hope we won't have any problems "recruiting" panelists for the discussions.
> We may have a publication of some sort before the Atlanta meeting. The
> articles should focus on the theme of Establishing and Consolidating Democracy
> in The Gambia and every effort will be made to project the wide range of
> perspectives on the issues.
>
> Examples of paper topics:
> An Assessment of the Transition Process
> The Military and Its Role in The Second Republic
> Disengaging The Military From Politics
> The Electoral Process and The Independent Electoral Commission
> The Commissions of Inquiry
> Two Years of Militarism: An Objective Analysis of AFPRC Rule in The Gambia
> The Role of Women in The Gambia's Political Development
> The Economic Impact of Military Rule
> Preventing Coups in The Second Republic
> The Draft Constitution
> Continuity and Change in The Gambia
> and so on....
>
> Add any areas that I may have overlooked. These are simply examples.
> Perhaps 5000 words would be an ideal "max" for the contributions.
> Names for the publication?
> Other ideas welcome.
>
> "A bientot!"
> Amadou
>
I think it is good that the military is central in the discussions.
The military take-over warrants the broadest possible scrutiny.
I am not sure if you aware of the fact that over 60% of the Gambian
population falls below the overall poverty line and 40% below the
food poverty line (ILO. Poverty in The Gambia. Geneva, February
1992). I think this information is very allarming.
Can you get somebody from the World Bank, to talk on Economic Reform
and Poverty Alleviation. Just an idea. May be one of the list members
can talk on the issue.
Keep up your good work folks! Good luck.
Shalom.
Famara.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 15:35:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: Oumar Ndongo <ondongo@benfranklin.hnet.uci.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Cc: "GAMBIA-L: The Gambia and Related Issues Mailing List" <gambia-l@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: ALD CONFERENCE
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.960510143744.2619A-100000@benfranklin.hnet.uci.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Dear Famara,
I don't know much about "excision"although a Fulani and it;s a
common practice in my community.Some of my daughters went through it,
others didn't.Not that I was against or for but because they were lucky to
grow up in a less traditional environment with their dad and mom as
responsible for their future and for it just did not matter.We had no
problem with our consciences.We grew up in stable families and our
parents and their parents grew up in the same rural but harmonious
environments as we can fathom.
I "belittled" this issue for 1- although reestablishing democracy
is a wide topic, I think the current situation of the country offers more
urgent areas of reflection.Therefore my concern here is that of
prioritizing, get the focus which will allow participants to get the
machine moving,knowing that all problems can't be solved on the spot.
The second reason is that I still believe that this campaign,spearheaded
by some Western women whose aim is to make us ashamed of ourselves,
resonates colonial and neo colonial views not grounded on a genuine
understanding of our practices.In that respect,I think it is important to
resist.The gender agenda needs to be looked at and I know that in the
current globalization of culture these issues will be discussed, they are
even being discussed.I remember last year,during a talk show on a
Senegalese independent radio,how people reacted against it.However, I
am just giving my view and that of a non Gambian( I am though a
Senegambian ).If we think the issue is crucial enough, discuss it.I
personally view it in the line of ideas developed by Edward Said in
"Orientalism",Westerners still trying to convince us of our primitiveness.
I add it serves also the purposes ofWestern women in that battle of sexes,
about who has a penis and who has not, and penis is power.I believe that
our families were constructed differently."Pleasure", if not "orgasm"is
not the goal pursued in African families.I don't mean to be rude to anybody.
Thanks again,
Oumar\Senegal.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 15:55:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: "A. Loum" <tloum@u.washington.edu>
To: Gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: FW: ARTICLE: Female Circumcision Controversy (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.92a.960510154600.10044A-100000@saul1.u.washington.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Hi Everybody, since the topic of female circumcision was among the things
discussed in Gambia-l during the last day or two, I decided to forward
this article on the topic which I got from Leonenet. Please note that this
is not an indication of endorsement or lack of on the subject. I am just
passing it on for the sole purpose of information disemination.
Thanks
Tony
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 8 May 1996 15:03:45 U
From: Hassan Sisay <hassan_sisay@MACGATE.CSUCHICO.EDU>
Reply-To: A Discussion of Sierra Leonean Issues <LEONENET@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
To: Multiple recipients of list LEONENET <LEONENET@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Subject: FW: ARTICLE: Female Circumcision Controversy
_______________________________________________________________________________
To: Multiple recipients of list PNEWS-L
From: Hank Roth's Progressive List [& PNEWS CONFERENCES] on Sat, May 4, 1996
7:06 AM
Subject: ARTICLE: Female Circumcision Controversy
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From: MUFEEDAH@delphi.com
Reproduced from Living Marxism issue 72, October 1994
What gives Western feminists and international
agencies the right to demand a ban on female
circumcision in the third world? asks Sandy
Deegan
A civilising mission?
Female genital mutilation, sometimes known as
female circumcision, a practice common in some
African and Arab countries, is suddenly in the
spotlight and under fire in the West.
The first international conference on female
genital mutilation, Change Without Denigration,
organised by the London Black Women's Health
Action Project this summer, was just one recent
event where the issue has been under scrutiny.
It was on the agenda at the United Nations
population conference in Cairo in September,
and was a focus of debate at an international
conference of obstetricians and gynaecologists
attended by 10 000 health professionals in the
same month. Concern about the practice has been
reflected in various articles in the women's
pages of national papers and those women's
magazines that aspire to a social conscience.
Opposition to female genital mutilation (FGM)
has united organisations as diverse as the
National Union of Students and the Roman
Catholic church. Students at Sheffield
University this year elected black American
author Alice Walker to replace Nelson Mandela
as the honourary president of the union, in
recognition of her opposition to the practice.
Meanwhile, at a recent Vatican synod on African
women, delegates called for the practice to be
strongly condemned by the church. FGM, it seems,
is an issue on which bishops and students see
eye to eye, and against which black minority
groups and the Murdoch press can unite in
condemnation.
It is not difficult to see why so many people
can be outraged by FGM. Those who campaign
against it attack the practice as brutal, a
violation of human rights and the dignity of
women. On the face of it, it is hard to disagree,
especially when confronted with lurid
descriptions of what FGM involves.
FGM covers a number of different practices.
Sunna circumcision, the least invasive procedure,
involves cutting away part of the prepuce, or
hood of the clitoris, and sometimes the tip itself.
Excision is more drastic and involves the removal
of the entire clitoris as well as the labia minora
(inner vaginal lips) and the cutting back of the
labia majora (outer vaginal lips). The most
severe form of FGM is infibulation, where following
the excision, the labia minora and major and the
remaining sides of the vulva are stitched or stuck
together until they heal leaving just a tiny hole
for the flow of menstrual blood.
Opponents of the practice emphasise that while the
procedure is sometimes carried out in modern
hospitals,
many societies still resort to primitive methods,
cutting women with knives, scissors, razor blades
and sometimes glass. Anaesthetics and antiseptics
are seldom available, and deaths from shock,
septicaemia and infections are common. The World
Health Organisation (WHO) estimates that each
year more than two million girls endure FGM at
puberty, and that worldwide there are between
85m and 115m women who have been subjected to FGM.
All of this no doubt seems alien and cruel to
Western sensibilities. But, it's worth asking,
what's new? Why should a traditional practice
such as FGM, which has been going on for centuries,
suddenly become such a burning issue today?
When the United Nations first raised the issue of
FGM back in 1958, it invited the WHO to undertake
a study of the practice. But the WHO rejected the
request on the grounds that 'the ritual operations
in question are based on social and cultural
backgrounds, the study of which is outside the
competence of the World Health Organisation'. Yet
today, the WHO has no such compunction about
judging the 'social and cultural' practices of
third world societies. Its latest information pack
states that the international community cannot
'remain passive in the name of some bland version
of multiculturalism'.
What has changed? After all, nobody is arguing that
FGM is on the increase. If anything, it seems very
likely that as traditional communities have become
fragmented, fewer women are circumcised today than
in the 1950s when nobody wanted to know about FGM.
It is also certain that a greater majority of those
whose families still continue the tradition have
access to modern medical care, so making FGM somewhat
less of a risk to women's health than it was in the
past.
There is nothing intrinsic to the practice of FGM
which can explain why it has become a major
international issue almost overnight. The current
furore about the practice seems to make sense only
if it is set in the wider context of relations
between the West and the third world today. In
particular, it fits neatly into the renewed
campaign of demonisation aimed against Africa
and its peoples (see F Fredi, 'At the heart of
Rwanda's darkness', Living Marxism, September 1994).
FGM has been taken up by bodies like the UN because
it
provides one more stick with which to beat the third
world for its barbarism, and so allow the West to
bask in a sense of its own moral superiority. The
fact that feminists and other prominent Western
liberals are prepared to give that stick a
politically correct point makes it an even better
weapon for the Western authorities in the nineties.
To get a sense of what's really behind the anti-FGM
campaign, you only have to look at the way the issue
has been taken up by the media. Accounts of FGM are
peppered with allegations about African and Asian
doctors who can be paid to do the operations on the
sly in private Harley Street clinics--the implication
being that respectable white, British doctors would
never perform unnecessary procedures for cash.
There are stories of Asian families who drag their
daughters 'back home' for the operation when they
reach puberty. In the USA, at a time when the
Clinton administration is sending back Cuban and
Haitian refugees, a Nigerian woman, Lydia Oluloro,
has become a cause clbre by winning the suspension
of her deportation on the grounds that her two
American-born daughters would be forced to undergo
FGM in Nigeria. Apparently the horrors of US-trained
death squads in Haiti or starvation thanks
to a US embargo in Cuba pale into insignificance
compared to the evil practices of black Africa.
By reinforcing notions of a clash between third
world barbarism and civilised Western values, the
FGM issue is providing another excuse for outside
intervention in the affairs of African and Asian
peoples. In America, the National Organisation of
Women has argued that congress must 'strongly
oppose the granting of "most favoured nation
status" to any country where FC/FGM is practised,
and whose government is not actively engaged in
opposing, outlawing and eliminating FC/FGM'. No
doubt the Washington feminist lobby applauded the
recent decision by the International Monetary Fund
(IMF) to make combating FGM a condition of its loan
to Burkina Faso. But while it might make Hillary
Clinton's friends feel good about doing their bit for
women around the world, the implications of the
anti-FGM campaign are nothing for people in the
third world to cheer about.
All aid to Somalia, a country where female
circumcision is widely practised, would be in
question if the link between FGM and financial
support were systematically pursued. As Rakiya
Omaar, Somali co-director of Africa Rights has
said, 'Somalis cannot comprehend the focus on this
issue when their entire country has fallen apart'.
You can understand their lack of comprehension
(especially when the collapse of their country
had been facilitated by the bloody military
intervention of the USA and UN--the same
bodies now chastising Somalis about FGM).
The idea that women in the third world, whose
first priority is often one of basic survival,
should be obsessed with the same concerns as
Western liberals in Washington and London is
bizarre. Even the WHO is forced to concede that
women in the third world are 'frequently faced
with issues of their own and their families'
survival and may not see FGM as an immediate
priority'.
The concern with FGM in the third world has a
domestic spin-off for the authorities here, too,
as a means of criminalising and cracking down on
immigrant communities. The UK-based Minority Rights
Group International, which has consultative status
with the UN Economic and Social Council, argues
that there is a need for 'clear and unambiguous
legislation' to incorporate FGM into the 'framework
of protecting children from abuse'. FGM is already
illegal in Britain under the Prohibition Act of
1985 which provides that anyone found practising
or aiding the procedure can be imprisoned for up
to five years. The police have stated their
commitment to bring prosecutions under the act,
and worked with the anti-FGM campaign Forward to
nail a Harley Street doctor exposed for FGM by
the Sunday Times.
Forward has also declared its intention to work
with local authorities in 'child-protection
intervention' in immigrant families. Community
Care magazine, in an article highlighting how
local authority social services departments are
already targeting the practice, recently reassured
us that Lambeth Social Services Department is to
employ a team of social workers with the specific
brief of determining which young African, Asian
and Middle Eastern girls are at risk of FGM, so
as to place them on the Child Protection Register.
Somali health workers have objected to being
besieged by social workers asking, 'Do you know
anyone who has taken their child to Somalia for
the operation?'. The prospect of an army of
doctors and social workers, backed up by the
police, trawling through minority communities
demanding to inspect their children for signs
of genital mutilation, or interrogating parents
over intimate family details and travel plans,
looks like an exercise in degrading entire
communities. Yet under the cover of a campaign
against FGM, it can be presented as an exercise
in saving some girls from degradation. That is
why the current obsession with FGM is such a
convenient way for the authorities to justify
intruding into the lives of immigrant communities
here, and the affairs of third world peoples
abroad. Even those who would generally defend
the right of Africans to live free from Western
dictates will balk at any notion of upholding
their right to circumcise females.
It is worth remembering, however, that many
African women have demanded the right to continue
their traditional practices. As one woman argued,
in the face of feminist outrage, at a recent
women's conference in London, 'You have the right
to ask a doctor to put silicon bags in your breasts,
why should I not have the right to ask for him to
alter my body in the way that I find acceptable?'.
This reaction is only incomprehensible to people
who are unfamiliar with the values of the societies
where female circumcision is practised.
Circumcision cannot be ended without challenging
the meaning of youth, adulthood, cleanliness,
health and illness in the societies concerned.
Those who advocate from afar that the UN or IMF
should impose a ban under threat of punitive action
are simply indifferent to the destructive
consequences
of their campaign.
The current campaign against female circumcision
carries on the paternalistic tradition of Western
intervention in this field. Back in the thirties,
British missionaries mobilised the colonial state in
East Africa to curb the practice. In Kenya, the
Kikuyu people resisted this intrusion into their
cultural affairs--indeed the nationalist movement
had its origins in the resistance to the attempts
of missionaries to ban female circumcision. The
central question raised by Kikuyu nationalists 60
years ago retains its relevance for the discussion
of FGM today: who has the right to determine what
cultural practices are acceptable or not in African
societies? The attempt to determine it from the West
might now be couched in the empowering language of
feminism rather than the sermons of missionaries,
but that does not alter the fact that it is using
coercion to impose an outside agenda on the people
of the third world.
It is one thing for African women to demand the
ending of female circumcision. Only they are
entitled to decide on this matter. It is quite
another thing when Western feminists and
international do-gooders decide to make moral
judgements about societies they do not comprehend
and for which they demonstrate nothing but
contempt. Such campaigns invariably turn into
another excuse for condemning Africa, and
legitimising more forceful foreign interventions
in the lives of the peoples of the South. If we
are serious about helping to achieve emancipation
for women in the third world, opposing all such
interventions is a good start.
----- END -----
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DON'T LET THE BASTARDS GRIND YOU DOWN!!
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 May 1996 17:16:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: ABDOU <at137@columbia.edu>
To: gambia-l@u.washington.edu
Subject: STATS GAMBIA-L and house cleaning
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.93L.960511165024.16151D-100000@merhaba.cc.columbia.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Hi,
Below you will find a listing of Gambia-L. I just wanted to give
you an idea of how inactive some members are. I would also like to take
this opportunity to ask that the membership be concealed and available to
only Tony, LatJorr, Amadou, and Sarian (the subscription managers). The
rest of us would have to publicly ask that the list of members be sent to
us. People should then have the opportunity to refuse to have their be
given to the third party. I was a proponent of the past "no conceal"
policy but I think the political situation in The Gambia has changed to
the point where I should try and shield my family from harassment by the
thugs in The Gambia. If there is no consensus on this issue, I will go
ahead and conceal my identity.
Tony, you have to set the list to "NO-AUTO-DELETE-SUBSCRIBERS".
The list has been trying to unsubscribe Oumar Ndongo. This is how we will
solve the deletion problem.
Please let me know how you feel about this issue.
Bye for now,
-Abdou.
Here are the number of messages per non-concealed subscriber:
nyada@geisnet.gn.apc.org 0
momodou@inform-bbs.dk 18
C.H.Allen@ed.ac.uk 1
EEESSULA@livjm.ac.uk 0
L.Konteh-95@student.lut.ac.uk 17
101573.1703@compuserve.com 2
100731.2004@CompuServe.com 0
101377.1007@Compuserve.com 0
Bamba_Ngum@cch.com 1
MSarr91824@aol.com 0
Wildkumba@aol.com 3
Mansala@aol.com 6
SIREH@AOL.com 5
Tuttyramou@aol.com 9
emdennis@ix.netcom.com 1
Bngum@MSN.Com 0
sarian.loum@eng.sun.com 0
TijanSenghore@kemet.com 2
lamin.drammeh@bio.uib.no 0
omar3@afrodite.kih.no 2
FAMARAAS@amadeus.cmi.no 10
binta@iuj.ac.jp 27
ajanneh@pstcc.cc.tn.us 70
et121179@student.uq.edu.au 2
sang_candebak_s.mendy@berea.edu 0
at137@columbia.edu 40
MBMARONG@STUDENTS.WISC.EDU 12
ojah@students.wisc.edu 0
sjagne@auc.edu 2
gndow@auc.edu 36
tloum@u.washington.edu 80
SHAFTR@ucipm.ucdavis.edu 9
yj0001@jove.acs.unt.edu 13
mubj1@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu 0
JS-Fofana@wiu.edu 0
B-Jaiteh@wiu.edu 0
onjie@gemini.nlu.edu 8
onjie@socrates.nlu.edu 0
onjie@bacchus.nlu.edu 0
m-kebbeh@tamu.edu 0
msjaiteh@mtu.edu 48
rcole@ced.berkeley.edu 31
mbojang@music.transy.edu 6
dott@usaid.gov 4
sarian@osmosys.incog.com 16
ondongo@benfranklin.hnet.uci.edu 9
Total number of postings since Wed Jan 31 13:12:35 1996 : 582
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End of GAMBIA-L Digest 15
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